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[Pavowski]

Hi all! May the odds be in your favor, unless you're mafia, in which case, a plague on your house.

The gods have dictated that I should VOTE: Taco to kick things off, and so I shall. Even though I love your username.

@Shrek, if you use the "reply" button instead of the quick reply box at the bottom of the page, there's a button above the text window labeled "Vote" that will automatically format your vote -- you just put the player's name in between the tags.

[Pavowski]

Hi all! May the odds be in your favor, unless you're mafia, in which case, a plague on your house.

The gods have dictated that I should VOTE: Taco to kick things off, and so I shall. Even though I love your username.

@Shrek, if you use the "reply" button instead of the quick reply box at the bottom of the page, there's a button above the text window labeled "Vote" that will automatically format your vote -- you just put the player's name in between the tags.

^this is a wolf. <- this is a non-RVS read.

Whaaaaat?? Me??

I'm a vegetarian!

[Pavowski]

Okay, inasmuch as we can learn anything useful early in the game (I'm dubious, but okay) it's hard not to look with a suspicious eye on everybody going hard at each other right out of the gate.

That list for me right now includes:
Taco
Sean
T3
Shrek probably

why would you turboelim me

that's not a very nice thing to do

Why me = fry me. Caught em

is interesting but then

my thought process behind this soft is that my role is not a power role and it will not hurt town that much if i get nightkilled for saying it. and claiming in the day and having more avenues looked at would be more beneficial than just focusing on me for the rest of it.

is a weird counter. "I'm not a big deal but I'm kind of a big deal?" sounds like "hey town don't eliminate me but also mafia don't NK me." Which is a pretty good place for scum to hang out.

[Pavowski]

Then, on an unrelated note:

9 pages already wow. When I'm feeling a little more energetic (in about 3 hours) I will take my time to read through it. Anyway, what's with the votes? Are they purely for meme purposes. I do not see the point in voting anyone on Day 1 after there have been no night actions performed. So I will not partake in any voting until Day 2 (if the Mafia doesn't kill me).

If I think anyone is sus, It would have to be Pavowski. Dude comes in acting suspiciously over confident and forces a vote on Taco and stays completely silent after the arguing commences.

Hi all! May the odds be in your favor, unless you're mafia, in which case, a plague on your house.

The gods have dictated that I should VOTE: Taco to kick things off, and so I shall. Even though I love your username.

@Shrek, if you use the "reply" button instead of the quick reply box at the bottom of the page, there's a button above the text window labeled "Vote" that will automatically format your vote -- you just put the player's name in between the tags.

Lucifer isn't the only person to flag me for this, only the most recent. That's a joke vote. I like to have a little fun, and I sleep early. I see limited value in early, no-information arguments. Plenty of people have the energy for that sort of thing, but I'm not one of them.

Re: my followup, I'm not a vegetarian, either. That was another joke since Sean called me a wolf. I get it, joking pings people as scummy a little bit. I'm okay with that. I like to have a little fun with my dumb jokes. If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.

[Pavowski]

That list for me right now includes:
Taco
Sean
T3
Shrek probably

Why aren't I here

Mostly because I think you're pressuring me to see how I act, not because you actually think I'm scummy. I could be wrong. I can add you to the list, though, if you feel left out?

[Pavowski]

Okay, inasmuch as we can learn anything useful early in the game (I'm dubious, but okay) it's hard not to look with a suspicious eye on everybody going hard at each other right out of the gate.

That list for me right now includes:
Taco
Sean
T3
Shrek probably

why would you turboelim me

that's not a very nice thing to do

Why me = fry me. Caught em

is interesting but then

my thought process behind this soft is that my role is not a power role and it will not hurt town that much if i get nightkilled for saying it. and claiming in the day and having more avenues looked at would be more beneficial than just focusing on me for the rest of it.

is a weird counter. "I'm not a big deal but I'm kind of a big deal?" sounds like "hey town don't eliminate me but also mafia don't NK me." Which is a pretty good place for scum to hang out.

isnt that what most people want though. to not be killed

Yes, obviously. The question, though, is why they want to not be killed, and how they go about avoiding being killed.

[Pavowski]

Ah fuck it i was waiting on salsa to actually pull themselves deeper into the moonlogic they have developed on me because it doesnt feel genuine at all coming from them like they pulled out the meta of another player to say im scum when i literally was in that game as scum as well as played against them as scum too.
If I'm scum here I'm not trying to spew everyone who attakcs me as town. As town idgaf bc i dont have an agenda.
Shrek stating they were from more survivor oriented games makes sense for their reaction being more pacifying as i understand that survivor and such relies on making friends not enemies.

@Pavowski what do you think of Salsa thus far?
VOTE: Salsa

Seems to be tunneling on you. Feels early for that to me, but then apparently you two have history playing against (or with, or whatever) one another so maybe they spotted something that trips their radar?

[Pavowski]

Lucifer you gotta use your vote.

Pavowski - of Taco, Seanzie, T3, Shrek - do any of their early pushes stand out for a specific reason as scummy?

No, they stand out as blustery and doing a lot of work to make their first impressions mean something. I mean:

Shrek and Salsa are town.

Just to grab an example from recently in the thread, I see this. How can you make a statement like this with any degree of certainty at this stage in the game? The game is less than 24 hours old, day 1 is less than 10% done. Confidence, at this point, feels like bluster.

Whether that's blustery town trying to drive investigations or blustery scum trying to *steer* investigations, I couldn't hazard a guess yet.

I should also point out I'm not saying those interactions don't mean anything. But I have no idea what they mean so far.

[Pavowski]

Okay I'm kind of trolling: so

17 is LAMIST

and then 119 is a bad reaction to something which doesn't comment on 100 posts that had happened between his first and second posts.

Please explain this.

It means "Look at me I'm so town"

I know what LAMIST is, what about that post do you interpret as LAMIST?

The post calls for a plague on the mafia.

Ok, I'm getting this now.

Jokey intro post = scummy

Referencing Shakespeare = scummy

Jokey intro post referencing Shakespeare = double-plus scummy

Effects of referencing 1984 in post analyzing jokey post referencing Shakespeare = undetermined, will study

[Pavowski]

Lucifer you gotta use your vote.

Pavowski - of Taco, Seanzie, T3, Shrek - do any of their early pushes stand out for a specific reason as scummy?

No, they stand out as blustery and doing a lot of work to make their first impressions mean something. I mean:

Shrek and Salsa are town.

Just to grab an example from recently in the thread, I see this. How can you make a statement like this with any degree of certainty at this stage in the game? The game is less than 24 hours old, day 1 is less than 10% done. Confidence, at this point, feels like bluster.

Whether that's blustery town trying to drive investigations or blustery scum trying to *steer* investigations, I couldn't hazard a guess yet.

I should also point out I'm not saying those interactions don't mean anything. But I have no idea what they mean so far.

This is very hedgy. I know you said you couldn't hazard a guess yet, but I firmly believe you could, and should.

Gun to head, which of those people are blustery town and which are blustery scum? If you can give reasons why you think one way or the other, great, but I'll be content for now with just "town" or "scum" on each slot.

Gun to head? Right this minute?
Taco - Town
Seanzie - Scum
T3 - Town, barely
Shrek - Town


And special mention: since Taco asked me about Salsa and I looked at their ISO, I'd say Salsa leans scum for what looks like hard tunneling.

And since he mentions T3:

i dont think pawowski is genuinely this "aloof" about things. Their analysis on t3 feels weirdly TMI because im not really able to see what they're talking about.
While hollistically i understand t3's play i dont think anything theyve done so far has had them leave reasonable town/scumrange

I just grabbed that T3 post because it was an example of an overly confident statement that happened to be on the same page I was working from, in a post where I was talking about excessive and unjustified confidence being something that pings my radar.

[Pavowski]

Vote count reminds me I should rescind my random vote and vote in line with my reads, thin though they may be at the moment

UNVOTE: Taco

VOTE: T3

I said a few pages ago (man you guys post a lot) I had a slight town lean on T3, and I did when I was reading through the multiple skirmishes early in the thread. But then I read back. His ISO is basically evasion, light antagonism, and sorting without a word of explanation.

[Pavowski]

Now the game is a full day old, a quick-and-dirty sorting based mostly on my hugely unreliable gut.

In no particular order...

Town
Faria - Is overly aggressive on Taco, but I think that's because she saw something there she legitimately doesn't like. Feels like a scum misplay to go after somebody so hard so early.
Taco - Has picked fights with lots of people. Would feel like a scum misplay. Leans town as a result.
Shrek - His (probably inadvisable) softclaim to defuse pressure puts him here for now

Null town
Dwlee -- Feels like towny pressuring people to get reactions but just a gut feel
Kyouko -- Same as Dwlee
Zyla -- No real lean yet, but gut says town, so here she stands for now

True null
Titus -- I got nothin yet

Null scum
Sean -- Asking so many questions but not offering nearly as much info. Head says town sorting, gut says scum, can't really justify that tho
Tris -- No justifiable read yet, just a gut feeling pushing her slightly south of neutral

Scum
T3 -- my vote is currently here, for reasons I stated earlier. Posts are short and cryptic, and he's proud of that.
Lucifer -- Not really enough for a proper read, but the fact he's made only two posts (pedit -- now three) -- one of them with no content at all, just a quote -- feels deliberately withholding
Galaxis -- Again, not really enough for a proper read, but I am not sure I buy the way they're acting

Happy Thursday morning, tear me to pieces.

[Pavowski]

Now the game is a full day old, a quick-and-dirty sorting based mostly on my hugely unreliable gut.

In no particular order...

Town
Faria - Is overly aggressive on Taco, but I think that's because she saw something there she legitimately doesn't like. Feels like a scum misplay to go after somebody so hard so early.
Taco - Has picked fights with lots of people. Would feel like a scum misplay. Leans town as a result.
Shrek - His (probably inadvisable) softclaim to defuse pressure puts him here for now

Null town
Dwlee -- Feels like towny pressuring people to get reactions but just a gut feel
Kyouko -- Same as Dwlee
Zyla -- No real lean yet, but gut says town, so here she stands for now

True null
Titus -- I got nothin yet

Null scum
Sean -- Asking so many questions but not offering nearly as much info. Head says town sorting, gut says scum, can't really justify that tho
Tris -- No justifiable read yet, just a gut feeling pushing her slightly south of neutral

Scum
T3 -- my vote is currently here, for reasons I stated earlier. Posts are short and cryptic, and he's proud of that.
Lucifer -- Not really enough for a proper read, but the fact he's made only two posts (pedit -- now three) -- one of them with no content at all, just a quote -- feels deliberately withholding
Galaxis -- Again, not really enough for a proper read, but I am not sure I buy the way they're acting

Happy Thursday morning, tear me to pieces.

Lol, what an absolute fucking joke mate. Just because I've only made three posts does not make me scum. You should realize that people have life's outside of this bloody game, even if you don't. On another note, did you put your Mafia buddies under town?

Jesus man. Notice I'm also a player with low post count in this game, hence me putting a lot of info out there to make up for it. Did you read any of the disclaimers? This is an early, low-information post about gut feels. I even said -- where I sus'd you -- "not really enough for a proper read".

Your over-the-top reaction sure is interesting, though.

[Pavowski]

UNVOTE: Titus

VOTE: Pavowski

Salsa unvote incoming :surprised:
VOTE: pavowski

Well I'm glad I was able to settle the beef between these two, I guess?

[Pavowski]

Wow. Post a few thin reads to start some conversation on an otherwise slow morning and get run up to e-2 in just a couple hours.

Are my reads bad or are scum just picking an easy target for a miselim?

Find out when you take me out. Check out who's on the wagon, folks.

[Pavowski]

Wow. Post a few thin reads to start some conversation on an otherwise slow morning and get run up to e-2 in just a couple hours.

Are my reads bad or are scum just picking an easy target for a miselim?

Find out when you take me out. Check out who's on the wagon, folks.

Why can't your reads be good and we're the ones with bad reads?

Not all the people on your wagon can be scum. Why don't you sort there? Does the wagon change your reads?

I agree, not all the people on my wagon can be scum. Obviously my post struck a nerve with a few townies as well. I just thought I'd plant a flag to let folks know how I view things right now.

If you want me to defend my reads into the ground, I'm not going to do it, because I'm not by any stretch convinced that *any* of my reads are good at this point. I thought that was pretty clear from my introduction, but I'll say it again: my reads in that post are based on gut feels at this point. In general I find d1 reads and posting as *mostly* shooting in the dark, because there is no *actual* information until the first body falls or some intel comes out. Anybody can have a good post that looks town despite being scum, and anybody can make a post that looks scummy despite being town. (Exhibit A, my apparently ill-advised reads list.)

Maybe I made a post that scum saw a chance to jump all over and wanted to stack me up early (scum won't hammer me, for obvious reasons). Maybe my reads are obviously bad, so bad they look scummy, and I dunno what the hell I'm talking about; I could believe that about myself.

I find it highly suspicious that it's several people I'd picked as nullish or even town-leaning who jumped on the wagon, with very little to say about the reads themselves or their votes on me:

VOTE: Pav

Oops lol
VOTE: pav

Pavo/Galaxis /Zyla has a nice ring to it.

It actually does.

VOTE: Pav

UNVOTE: Titus

VOTE: Pavowski

Salsa unvote incoming :surprised:
VOTE: pavowski

Have I updated my reads as a result of all this? You bet.

[Pavowski]

Now the game is a full day old, a quick-and-dirty sorting based mostly on my hugely unreliable gut.

In no particular order...

Town

Faria - Is overly aggressive on Taco, but I think that's because she saw something there she legitimately doesn't like. Feels like a scum misplay to go after somebody so hard so early.

Taco - Has picked fights with lots of people. Would feel like a scum misplay. Leans town as a result.
Shrek - His (probably inadvisable) softclaim to defuse pressure puts him here for now

Null town
Dwlee -- Feels like towny pressuring people to get reactions but just a gut feel
Kyouko -- Same as Dwlee
Zyla -- No real lean yet, but gut says town, so here she stands for now

True null
Titus -- I got nothin yet

Null scum
Sean -- Asking so many questions but not offering nearly as much info. Head says town sorting, gut says scum, can't really justify that tho
Tris -- No justifiable read yet, just a gut feeling pushing her slightly south of neutral

Scum
T3 -- my vote is currently here, for reasons I stated earlier. Posts are short and cryptic, and he's proud of that.
Lucifer -- Not really enough for a proper read, but the fact he's made only two posts (pedit -- now three) -- one of them with no content at all, just a quote -- feels deliberately withholding
Galaxis -- Again, not really enough for a proper read, but I am not sure I buy the way they're acting

Happy Thursday morning, tear me to pieces.

Faria I think tunnels like this (the bolded) as scum here and is projecting her own scumplay into her scumread on Taco. Using the aggressive style as safe haven to deflect any scumreads. Think "how could I possibly be scum, it would be so bad for scum to tunnel and draw this much attention to themselves"

While your reasoning on Taco is the same as on Faria and I agree with your conclusion right now, I do think it's dangerous to mentally clear someone because "scum wouldn't do X." Because scum will do literally anything if they think it will further their wincon.

Don't mean to quibble, just to clarify that I haven't cleared anybody, these are just my paper thin reads as of this morning. The tunneling feels more towny than scummy right now.

[Pavowski]

Does anyone scumread Lucifer?

Yup

[Pavowski]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

I am curious how you've cleared Galaxis at this point.

[Pavowski]

I am pretty sure Salsa is town. I agree with most of her thoughts and she is actively solving.

You shouldn't be townreading me

UNVOTE: tris

VOTE: T3

*wat*

I agree, wat

[Pavowski]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

I am curious how you've cleared Galaxis at this point.

I haven't. Sorry if it is unclear (do-do-cha!), but the magical clear line is NOT meant to indicate anything about the players, simply that IF everyone above it is clear, then autoing based on the list will win. It is more of a thing to help me and others think, rather than a tool to communicate my thoughts. Maybe I should think of a better name for it than the "magical clear line"...

Galaxis is above the magical clear line right now simply in virtue of the fact that there are a lot of people who are worse that Galaxis IMO.

Ohhh, that makes more sense. You could call it the "safety line" and then as people move around it they'd be doing a "safety dance"

Right?

No?

[Pavowski]

Sigh!

UNVOTE: T3

VOTE: Pavowski

Well, damn. Was it the joke, or was it agreeing with T3?

[Pavowski]

I can't say why because of ongoing games but tris is scummy. Her explanation of "It's hard for me to get in to the game" is usually more likely to come from town that scum, from personal experience.

This contradicts itself. Is she towny or scummy?

[Pavowski]

VOTE: Dwlee99

I have a very hard time thinking that you as town couldn't find a single reason, no matter how weak, that Zyla is town.

You'd think that would look worse for Zyla than for me

"She has asked people questions about what they're thinking"

and then what has she done with it...?

I was reading Sean as scummy early in the game but all their recent posts pull them back into null for me. Like you're clearly trying to sort players, and you're so matter-of-fact and emotionless about it that you could be doing it for town or scum reasons. What's weird for me is that you have Zyla as your *top* town read. I'm not saying I scumread Zyla, but you very clearly put her at the top, and I don't get it. By the rationale of your magic-clear line, you're saying she's the last person you'd eliminate right now. Is that really true?

However, Dwlee's failure to go along with this exercise is weird. I mean, I'd think anybody should be able to look at anybody in this game and point to one towny and one scummy thing, even if it's just a feeling.

[Pavowski]

@Sea, I think you're setting yourself up to be agency captured.

What does this mean?

@Sea, I think you're setting yourself up to be agency captured.

If this is towards me,

1.) Sean is a much better short name for me than Sea.

2.) What does "agency captured" mean?

Sean, agency captured means being useful to the scumteam aka accidentally working for them. Sometimes I will call such a player the townbeard.

[Pavowski]

Taco Hemingway
Titus

Dwlee99

Galaxis
Shrek
LuciferMorningStar

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T3
Zyla

tris
Pavowski
ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

Okay, this is where I am at right now. I don't feel good about that bottom block of 4 though, so I need to spend some more time sorting through those players. Does anyone have a strong towncase on any of those bottom four?

I'd put Faria higher given how she's been actively and aggressively trying to figure people out. She feels towny to me and to use the logic of your magic line, I wouldn't pick her as a first elim.

And even though it wasn't your question, I still think you're being awfully charitable to have Galaxis that high.

[Pavowski]

Consolidating votes seems like it would make sense at this point, so I thought I'd go through Pav and Kyouko's ISOs to see which one I'd vote, and uh...

And special mention: since Taco asked me about Salsa and I looked at their ISO, I'd say Salsa leans scum for what looks like hard tunneling.

Town
Faria - Is overly aggressive on Taco, but I think that's because she saw something there she legitimately doesn't like. Feels like a scum misplay to go after somebody so hard so early.

I'm sorry, what? These were back to back, and you placed SF in opposite positions for the same reason. What's going on here?

VOTE: Pav

There's almost 200 posts in between those, hardly back to back. Faria's push felt scummy at first but upon further reflection I thought it was townier. Note I said it felt like a scum misplay for her to tunnel like that, but now that I see more of Faria, I don't think she's misplaying, I think that's just her style. We're allowed to change our reads, right?

Also, around that time you were townreading me in 308. But then ... we're allowed to change our reads, right?

Your vote feels opportunistic.

[Pavowski]

If Zyla flips scum (high probability btw) throw Lucifer out the nearest escape hatch

Town

:
Shrek
Taco
Tris
Ssbm_Kyuoko
Seanzie

Scum

:
Titus
Dwlee
Salsabli Faria
Pawoski

Idk

:
Galaxy
T3

Fixed

Terrible reads and you forgot Zyla lol

Didn't even notice Zyla was in the game tbh.

I don't pay enough attention

.

I still think both you and Pawoski are Scum together though

Also why are you so pushy with getting me to vote?

@Dwlee I also fail to see the relationship between Zyla and Lucifer (unless you're saying they've ignored each other?)

But then there's this,

I mean

,

come on

.

[Pavowski]

It's not necessarily huge, but forgetting one specific player (that has definitely not been 'invisible') is kinda weird, do you agree?

Yes.

[Pavowski]

i wonder if anyone will put zyla on e-1

You could do it.

[Pavowski]

I will admit now that i think both seanzie and kyouko are scum here - that was my other universe i mentioned earlier. I think salsa has come off much more towny recently

VOTE: pav

I'm just gonna lie down over here while y'all figure this one out.

I'm not voting Zyla, because all that will do is get me eliminated tomorrow (or maybe today!) for an OMGUS, or an obvious self-preservation vote. (I still think her voting me is strictly opportunistic). If you think there's info to be had from eliminating me, be my guest.

But if you think others are scummier than I am (as seems to be the case), then make that case.

[Pavowski]

What a mess this one turned out to be. Glad town pulled it out tho, not gonna lie it was way less stressful getting yeeted d1