Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Maybe it was a bit stifling to discussion, which I agree sucks. But MBL was asking Patrick for his voting motivations on a vote he made in the first post of the game. It doesn't seem like a big explanation is really possible there.Ether wrote:
Stifling discussion. She picked on the most boring, dismissable part of your analysis--the first semblance of content in the game--and dismissed it.Post 20, MBL wrote:Ether, why e_k?
Also, MBL seemes a little PO'ed, and I was trying to be more obnoxious.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I thought it was random. Or maybe a love-tap.MrBuddyLee wrote:e_k, are you thinking that Patrick's choice of a D1 bandwagon target was random? Cause I'm pretty sure it wasn't.
Why do you think it wasn't random? And what do you think the reason is? People hate you? I wasn't aware of that.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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But for them to be wary of connecting themselves to MBL, they would have to be scum and KNOW that MBL is actually scum.bluesoul wrote:EBWODP: More to the point, the three that haven't posted are more keenly aware of an MBL connectionright out of the gate, we don't get anything that hasn't been altered or skewed by the possibility of this connection.
Bluesoul, do you think MBL is scum?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I agree. Also, no matter how much you like certain player it should have no bearing on whether you think they're scum or not.petroleumjelly wrote:You managed to butter up three people in the game with a single post.
unvote; vote DGBTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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As for 15, at the time I didn't think any explanation was possible or pertenent for Patrick's vote. MBL has said repeatedly that he thinks Patrick had other motivations, and I don't think he was merely talking about some grudge from another game, so that's why I asked in 68 -- to see if there actually was something.Ether wrote: In more recent news,unvote; vote: elvis_knitsfor her non-sequitur stupid question in 68, which she'd already previously attacked as a stupid question in 15, and is directed toward the person who'd foreshadowed suspicion on her since her last post. Not much else she's done, either. We should kill her.
Not understanding why my behavior there is scummy.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I wasn't buying into what PJ was saying. Indepentently, I had the same reaction when reading your post. It was a bit too lovey-dovey for the DGB I know! This is not a love-fest! Where is the firing squad?
(I do <3 you though).Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I didn't realize I was being that derilect...
I guess I haven't said that much on those things because I am undecided on what any of it means. I chose to question you further because it is the issue I am most directly involved in, and have a better grasp of. But it's not like I haven't commented on anything, and it's not like everyone else in the game has commented about every one of those things. So I think you're being oversensitive to my actions.
I'll try to comment more though, if it will make you feel better about me. Beginning at the beginning!
It's recap of events taken from MBL's pov. It's a bit martyr-like, and throws as much suspicion around as possible. Suspicion on those for wagoning, and suspicion on those for not wagonning. And then voting none of the people he has thrown suspicion on, which seems like an odd choice.MrBuddyLee wrote:Patrick suggests a bold strategy out of the gate, and one he knows will probably gain traction. I'd be interested to hear his specific motivations.
Sarc voting Ether and then finding safe harbor in the fourth spot on a bandwagon when thethirdspot wasn't at all appealing to him.
PJ following along merrily with unknown quantities elvis and Patrick.
DGB avoiding the MBL wagon after she ruthlessly butchered me in the first 5 minutes of Space Monkeys II.
Bluesoul curiously hesitant to put a second vote on chamber, chooses to OMGUS DGB by proxy instead.
OGML also avoids the MBL wagon and hits Sarc with an appropriate vote.
Elias is the only one of you I'm not familiar with. I'd probably vote for Sarc now, but I don't want a competing wagon... yet.
vote: Elias_the_thief
I would think he would choose one of the people he is suspicious of. If he doesn't choose one of them, I have to assume he is either 1)not serious in his accusations or 2)afraid to get in trouble (or OMGUS) and feels it easier to take a random vote on elias.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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As for Bluesoul... I think the wagon built because of this:
I think it was obvious what three players he was referring to, as he names them in the post. So that was not confusing or significant to me.bluesoul wrote:I'd rather see posts from those that haven't made it into the game yet, elias, IH, and chamber. Nice reference to nailing MBL's scumbuddies, I'm sure that helped us fight the good fight since we've got three players that get to stare that right in the face as they think about their posts.
facepalm: DGB
But I did find it significant that for anyone to be wary of connecting themselves to MBL, that the player would have to be scum and be scum with MBL. (I did post about this, BTW). To me, it doesn't seem like something that anyone would really need worry about, so it was weird that bluesoul did. Weird in the way of maybe knowing that MBL or one of the other three players really was mafia. Which in turn would make bluesoul mafia.
I feel I am just rambling here...
Probably why I didn't say it before.
It felt a little too convoluted for me to vote him for bluesoul. And I think it was probably just humor that can look scummy when overanalyzed.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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As to the bluesoul/sarcastro link, I would highly doubt they were scum buddies. Sarc does try to "explain" bluesoul's post that everyone was questioning, but that does not make me think they are scum buddies.
1)Sarc's explanation of bluesoul's post was in response to MBL's misreading and not understanding which three players bluesoul was referring to. It seem reasonable that anyone would know what three players, and natural for Sarc to try to explain what was obvious.
2)I don't see a lot of scum buddies defending each other in such an obvious way, when they don't even really have to.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Side note:
Following on last post, the way MBL misunderstood bluesoul doesn't seem reasonable to me. He only quotes bluesoul partially, since that is the only way it is possible to misunderstand him. I smell something amiss in the way he only partially quotes bluesoul.
Patrick, now that you have forced me to pay more attention to this game I am realizing how much I don't like MBL.MrBuddyLee wrote:
Is itbluesoul wrote:Nice reference to nailing MBL's scumbuddies, I'm sure that helped us fight the good fight since we've gotthreeplayers that get to stare that right in the face as they think about their posts.
facepalm: DGBthreeplayers because you know I'm not scum and therefore the likely three mafia in this game are watching me cautiously?
unvote, vote: bluesoul
I'm going back to him.
unvote; vote MrBuddyLeeTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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But the point is you snipped bluesoul's post. You deleted the one sentence that explains who the three people are. This crucial part of info was not even in a different paragraph. It was directly before the portion you quoted, and directly connected.MrBuddyLee wrote:I still think my conclusion was just as logical or more so than the standard conclusion, and I defintiely didn't intentionally misconstrue:
Here's bluesoul's full post:elvis_knits wrote:Following on last post, the way MBL misunderstood bluesoul doesn't seem reasonable to me.He only quotes bluesoul partially, since that is the only way it is possible to misunderstand him.I smell something amiss in the way he only partially quotes bluesoul.
Patrick, now that you have forced me to pay more attention to this game I am realizing how much I don't like MBL.
I'm going back to him.
unvote; vote MrBuddyLee
It doesn't say "think about theirI'd rather see posts from those that haven't made it into the game yet, elias, IH, and chamber. Nice reference to nailing MBL's scumbuddies, I'm sure that helped us fight the good fight since we've got three players that get to stare that right in the face as they think about their posts.
facepalm: DGBfirstposts". Therefore, the obvious conclusion to draw, regardless of bluesoul's first sentence, is that he is talking about the three people who would benefit from thinking about their posts in the context of "MBLscum in trouble"--that is, the three scum. It just doesn't ring true. I don't see proportionality in the concern here.
Why did you snip the quote?
If your conclusion is still valid whether or not you snipped the post, why did you choose to snip?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I don't think this is "hampering the town's efforts."DrippingGoofball wrote:OMG
Sarcastro is the Master.
He has caught scum on Day 1, as evidenced by MBL's smarmy squirming.
Twelve players, seven to lynch, he has four votes already. I'm tempted to put him at five but not until we've had more discussion to help us nail his buddies.
She didn't really add anything to the discussion though, even though she says she wants more discussion.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Ether, did you read this? If so, why do you still have a problem with the question I asked Patrick?
elvis_knits wrote:
As for 15, at the time I didn't think any explanation was possible or pertenent for Patrick's vote. MBL has said repeatedly that he thinks Patrick had other motivations, and I don't think he was merely talking about some grudge from another game, so that's why I asked in 68 -- to see if there actually was something.Ether wrote: In more recent news,unvote; vote: elvis_knitsfor her non-sequitur stupid question in 68, which she'd already previously attacked as a stupid question in 15, and is directed toward the person who'd foreshadowed suspicion on her since her last post. Not much else she's done, either. We should kill her.
Not understanding why my behavior there is scummy.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I looked at what Patrick was saying and what I had posted in the game and decided that he wouldn't necessarily be scum for saying those things about me. He had a point about me not being involved enough, so, yes, he could be scum, but not necessarily. Something when people attack you with a BS case you KNOW they're scum. But I didn't feel like it here. So in the event that he is town and I have been flakey in this game, I was trying to be more involved. I figured it should give him more to judge if he thinks I am scum or not.MrBuddyLee wrote:Patrick wrote:You haven't done much scumhunting. At the time, you'd made no comments about anyone's alignment, and your question to me seemed to ignore the meat of the game in favour of something irrelevant, which you twice said was irrelevant before.
e_k, why do you want Patrick to feel better about you? Couldn't he be scum?elvis_knits wrote:I'll try to comment more though, if it will make you feel better about me.Beginning at the beginning!
I don't think I "cut Patrick slack." What did you want me to attack about his post? The simple fact that he votes someone?e_k's primary line of attack has been against MBL. She pressed MBL because his first post criticized Patrick's first post:
A little odd considering you cut Patrick slack for his first post and not me. But it was early, so haymaking is more acceptable on page one.e_k wrote:But MBL was asking Patrick for his voting motivations on a vote he made in the first post of the game. It doesn't seem like a big explanation is really possible there.
Why are you comparing his first post with your first post? They are entirely different. His was the first post of the game and as almost no content beyond a vote. Your is a very subjective analysis where you throw suspicion on almost everyone in the game and then vote for none of them (instead voting for someone who hasn't posted). Do NOT suggest I am partial to Patrick because I didn't judge your two posts alike. They were different with different content. The only thing they have in common is that they were the first each of you made.
I'm critical of your first post because you criticize people for bandwagonning you and for not bandwagonning you. It's hypocritical. And I don't like that post because you seem to have a lot of people you have reason to be suspicious of, but you don't vote any of them. It doesn't make sense to me.Next, e_k had a problem with my first-post vote for Elias, suggesting I should have voted for someone I'm suspicious of instead of for a lurker. Fair enough, I suppose, except that she hits me for "throwing around as much suspicion as possible", but doesn't pinpoint which of MBL's observations, if any, strike her as inappropriate to raise in a first post. Perhaps they were all reasonable, e_k? If so, why criticize me for making them in post #1?
Usually things in a paragraph are related. Usually people don't start talking about one thing and change subject without clarifying. Otherwise the written world would be anarchy.More recently, e_k didn't like the way I "misunderstood" bluesoul and seems to think I didn't really misunderstand him. She hits me for quote-snipping. e_k, do you understand why I didn't think the snipped sentence referred to the quoted sentence? I've made reference to my thought process on that a couple times.
On quote-snipping in general: it cleans up threads. At the top of this post you can see how I've snipped to add clarity and punctuate. I did the same in my post about bluesoul's "three players" because I honestly read the first sentence as unrelated to the one I quoted. I still don't think they necessarily read as related, other than the happenstance that both contain the word three.
And no, I do not understand why you thought two sentences that were in the same paragraph, right next to each other, were unrelated.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Whose ass did you kick? They must have buns of steel.OhGodMyLife wrote:Today at work I broke my toe and lacerated the nail bed, requiring stitches. The near future of this game included OGML on Vicodin. Prepare yourselves.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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From my memory of this game, there's been quite a few people drawing connections between players (or maybe it's just a few players drawing quite a lot of connections). This post by DGB trying to say that she sees bussing is just an avenue for me to comment on the "connections" phenomenon in this game.DrippingGoofball wrote:
The scumbags no longer can claim Mason, that's for sure. That whole bit about percentages was a total red herring argument. There is no way this argument was about an actual scumtell, it seemed very contrived and planned. Bus'ing is definitely a possibility here.Ether wrote:DGB, what are your thoughts on Bluesoul, and MBL's interactions with him?
Normally, I really don't like to try to connect people on D1. Usually not even until we have lynched scum. Maybe I'm playing on a lower level than the rest of you, but I feel like it just confuses things. I feel that it is a great scum tactic to set yourself up connected to a townie, or connect your buddy to a townie. So when you allow that sort of rampant BS speculation, you open the door for a lot of scum manipulation.
But maybe I'm not thinking about things in a complex enough way. Does speculating on scum buddies or groups on D1, actually help any of you? Am I being too simplistic?
And for the record, I do think that everyone that has tried making these "connections" on D1 is somewhat scummy. I'd have to look at individual instances to be able to comment on the exact degree of scumminess. But in general, I think it's scummy move.Talk nerdy to me.
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It's something I have been noticing from a lot of people. OGML drew a connection between sarc and bluesoul (I believe, as Ether has metioned it more than once). DGB drew connection between me and PJ and then MBL/bluesoul that I quoted in 216. I think DGB has been doing a lot of it. But to be fair, Ether forced that by asking the loaded question of "DGB, what are your thoughts on Bluesoul, and MBL's interactions with him?" So I think Ether is guilty of drawing connections too, and perhaps in a more underhanded way, because she's prompting people to re-affirm any mentions of connection.
Anyway, those are the things that were swirling in my head when I was thinking about people mentioning connections. I'm sure there are more, and it's possible I have gotten something slightly wrong as I'm not rereading to make this post. That's just my general sense of it.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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If I had to say one person who tipped the scales I would say DGB. I think she's done more than others about pairing people. Also pretty sure she has had little or no evidence when she draws these connections. Which makes it worse.chamber wrote:
Sorry for the double post, but if it wasn't me who pushed you to speak then who exactly tipped the scales?elvis_knits wrote:I actually wasn't thinking of you Chamber, but I'm glad to get any sort of explanation from youTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I am indeed suggesting that any connection between me and Pj is false. I noticed you mentioned it in one of your posts as me "parotting PJ" and I had no idea what you were even talking about. I had to read through my own posts in isolation to figure it out.Patrick wrote:
She's done a bit of it, though I'd like to point out that you're suggestion that she was connecting you and PJ is false; if anything, it seemed like the opposite to me, since she floated a possibleelvis wrote:If I had to say one person who tipped the scales I would say DGB. I think she's done more than others about pairing people. Also pretty sure she has had little or no evidence when she draws these connections. Which makes it worse.disassociationbetween the two of you.
I realize you are referring to PJ voting DGB and then me voting DGB for the same reason. There's not much I can tell you except that I had that reaction to her post before I even read PJ's. If you think that was an unreasonable reaction to DGB's post, then I somewhat understand you problem with my vote. But if you find my response reasonable, then why can't you believe two people would have the same reasonable reaction to it?
It kind of makes me mad that you used the word "parotting" though. It smells like spin. Just because two people happen to agree on something doesn't mean they are parotting each other. And you said it like parotting was a fact.
Here's the part of your post with parotting, for reference:Patrick wrote:Why is it strange that she dislikes elvis just parrotting your reason?Talk nerdy to me.
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Considering you were saying you had bad vibes from me, and were voting me, I of course considered it an attack. I think it's odd that you didn't consider it an attack since you were voting me. I assume when people who are voting start to criticize me, that it's an attack.Patrick wrote:
That wasn't an attack. Elvis asked what I wanted her to comment on, so I gave some suggestions. I wasn't saying that everyone should have definitively weighed in on every single issue, I was demonstrating why I thought she was ignoring the meat of the game. Did you read the context of that post?MBL wrote:Then this, which seems a bit manufactured:
Attacking people for not piping up on particular issues is not entirely logical. I see the wider point that e_k is going after a seemingly lesser issue, but.. still feels weird.Patrick wrote:After MBL's first analysis post, Ether asked you to comment on it. You've also not commented on bluesoul's wagon/alignment, which seems like a notable event in the game. Chamber's accusation against me, the suggestion of a bluesoul/Sarcastro link and the suggestion that Ether voted bluesoul whilst ignoring others who did the same as him all spring to mind as possible things to talk about. Any of those seem more relevant than what you highlighted.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Patrick, your initial reason for voting me was something about me ignoring the meat of the game, playing on the sidelines or something. At the time you posted that, it struck me that you were singling me out from others who were playing similarly (perhaps not contributing enough). IH, Chamber, Elias come to mind.
What made me seem scummier than others who weren't contributing that much?Talk nerdy to me.
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Maybe I amDrippingGoofball wrote:
You're not buttering him up now, are you?elvis_knits wrote:I like chamber.
All I mean is that his last post made sense to me and seemed pro-town.
DGB, anything else to add to the game?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Interesting. You said nothing about who you think is scummy.DrippingGoofball wrote:
Yes.elvis_knits wrote:DGB, anything else to add to the game?
First, more butter.
Second, people are talking, which is nice, but we're a bit slow on the voting. I'd prefer more voting, as in, putting your money where your mouth is. 'Cuz talk is cheap. We want real actions that we can weigh on later on. We're just going in circles at the moment. We need more wagoning.
I think this is what you mean:
"You guys should start killing each other, but I don't want to say who because I don't really care. I plan to just throw my vote in sometime where it's least noticable and I won't have to take too much blame."
Am I right?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I find that players make statements like that when:DrippingGoofball wrote:Everyone is looking pretty townie right now.
1)they are trying not to scum hunt
2)they need an excuse why they are not scum hunting
3)they want to fly under the radar
A pro-town player eager for more bandwagoning and voting, would be attacking more, voting more, participating more. For you to complain about anemic bandwagoning but not do anything to change that, is scummy.
unvote; vote dgbTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I have not considered the possibility. If we go around afraid to vote or lynch people because they might have a power role, then nothing would ever happen.DrippingGoofball wrote:Who has considered the possibility that I have a power role?
Also, what is the point of soft-claiming like that?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I don't have a problem with him. I haven't played with him in a long time, so there I'm not really going on meta at all. I just haven't read any of his posts and thought it was BS, or thought he was trying to be manipulative.Patrick wrote:Elvis, what do you think of PJ?Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Supersaint? Really?
Should we take any information from the fact that this game is in little italy, the normal mini area? Because I don't think a supersaint is a normal role.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Patrick, it's starting to really annoy me how you keep trying to connect me to PJ. Not only is there no connection there, but I don't think that you could honestly feel like you see one.
I don't see the correlation here between DGB's play and PJ's play. DGB's comment of "everyone looking pretty townie" is a tell that I have seen scum make. It is representative of a player who is not scum hunting. I don't think PJ fits that category. Do you? Pj has been asking a lot of questions and commenting a lot. If he's not scum hunting, then I guess he's putting on a pretty good show. If you think his play is somehow similar to DGB's you're going to have to explain it to me, because I just am not seeing it.Patrick wrote: Elvis: In the post where you voted DGB, you said this:
Which seems to critisise her for only having a stance on one player (bluesoul). PJ has said he only has two real reads (on DBG and MBL), but you haven't mentioned that as bothering you. Maybe I'm not understanding the quote correctly, but if that's what it is, do you feel there are some differences between your issue here with DGB and PJ taking alot of middle ground?Elvis wrote:DGB wrote:Everyone is looking pretty townie right now.
I find that players make statements like that when:
1)they are trying not to scum hunt
2)they need an excuse why they are not scum hunting
3)they want to fly under the radar
And it really pisses me off that I am sort of defending PJ here because I don't know that he's town. I just don't have a problem with him.Talk nerdy to me.
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Good for you, Patrick!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111Patrick wrote:
First off, I'm not going to avoid asking questions on the chance they might annoy you. I won't get anywhere if I approach the game like that.Elvis wrote:Patrick, it's starting to really annoy me how you keep trying to connect me to PJ. Not only is there no connection there, but I don't think that you could honestly feel like you see one.
Patrick, I have been asked before about connections between me and PJ. I have answered all your questions and tried to be as helpful as possible. YOU have not argued with my explanations. All you do is bring up different BS points. If you feel my explanations have been bad or unsatisfactory, why haven't you argued against them? OF COURSE you were drawing a connection between myself and PJ. You've asked about us before, so why wouldn't you be doing it now? Your failure to admit it is very strange and hmmmm, scummy. If you think I'm being unreasonable, I'd like you to explain why.Patrick wrote:Secondly, I was not trying to connect you to PJ, I was questioning your consistency between two players; that need not imply a connection. For the record: I have considered the possibility that you're both scum, not really due to any strong connection, but just because I find you both scummy and see no disassociations. If you think that's unreasonable, I'd like you to explain why.
unvote; vote patrick
I still support DGB lynch, but Ether seems to think I should hammer. I'm perfectly willing to be hammer. So now I am off the wagon, feel free to bring her to L-1.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Patrick wrote:PJ wrote: *birthday-bites-Patrick*
Should be good fun.
What do you think of elvis_knits?
Plus there was the "elvis is parrotting PJ" piece of manufactured BS.Patrick wrote:Elvis, what do you think of PJ?
It all rolls into Patrick trying to connect me to PJ. And before you say "I ask other players what they think of each other quite often and it means nothing," realize you haven't asked me specifically to comment on any other player.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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So what was your particular reason for asking in THIS situation? Why did you ask PJ what he thought of me and what I thought of PJ if you were not trying to tie us together?
Do you have a clear idea of what I think of every other player? Why did you ask me specifically about PJ?
I still find it extraordinarily strange that you won't admit you were trying to tie us together.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Maybe that's because elias and IH have contributed basically nothing. Are you saying I have a bias toward them?MrBuddyLee wrote:e_k is weird. Not certain if this is a style thing that rubs me weird or if she's actually scum. It almost seems too obvious.
elvis: "i like chamber", nothing on elias or IH
Why is this significant? Do you think there is something of his I should comment on? Do you comment on every aspect of every person's play?barely anything on OGML
I have already explained why I think trying to pair people on D1 is often misleading and usually scummy. Also, suggesting I am scum partners with someone is also suggesting I am scum. Which I kinda don't like. First of all because I am not scum. Second of all, I think it's a backhanded way of confronting someone of being scum. Reeks of manipulation.she doesn't have a problem with PJ but doesnt want to be tied to him
You are attributing motivations to me you can't know or prove. You are framing my actions in a way to make me look scummy.wanted patrick to explain something, wants to be seen not liking patrick
One aspect of her play... not everything, not ether herself. Stop inflating.calls ether underhanded
Iwants to be seen as willing to hammer DGBamwilling to hammer DGB. Is there something of my play that leads you to believe I am not actually willing to do it?
Also, I notice how you are derailing her bandwagon.
When did I defend sarcastro? I have no memory of this.defends sarcastro, otherwise ignores him--possible scumpartner, could just be kissing up to town?
Explain how any of that is scummy.asked bluesoul his opinion of me, said something bluesoul did was "weird"
smells something amiss in MBL's behavior, etc etc
trying to prove herself to ether/gain approval
You haven't calculated the possibilty that I am an SK.95% certainty Ether and e_k aren't partners--don't think she'd seek approval from a scumpartner
95% certainty e_k and PJ aren't partners--don't think she'd draw so much attention to her displeasure being connected to a scumpartner
85% certainty e_k and chamber aren't partners--gut.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Are you saying you're not derailing DGB wagon?MrBuddyLee wrote:
Odds of DGB+e_k scumpair rising rapidly.e_k wrote:Also, I notice how you are derailing her bandwagon.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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My comment demonstrates the strangeness of MBL's level of certainty that I am scum, but only contemplates that I am mafia. Why doesn't he contemplate that I am an SK? Why is he so absorbed in finding my scum buddies before he actually finds out if I am scum or not?Ether wrote:
...uh.Post 352, Elvis wrote:
You haven't calculated the possibilty that I am an SK.Post 344, MBL wrote:95% certainty Ether and e_k aren't partners--don't think she'd seek approval from a scumpartner
95% certainty e_k and PJ aren't partners--don't think she'd draw so much attention to her displeasure being connected to a scumpartner
85% certainty e_k and chamber aren't partners--gut.
Also, I find it weird that MBL seems to be giving DGB every possible avenue to make herself seem less scummy. What has convinced him that she is town and deserves this type of babying?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Reposting for the benefit of MBL who seems to have not paid attention to my view of scum pairings on D1.
elvis_knits wrote:
From my memory of this game, there's been quite a few people drawing connections between players (or maybe it's just a few players drawing quite a lot of connections). This post by DGB trying to say that she sees bussing is just an avenue for me to comment on the "connections" phenomenon in this game.DrippingGoofball wrote:
The scumbags no longer can claim Mason, that's for sure. That whole bit about percentages was a total red herring argument. There is no way this argument was about an actual scumtell, it seemed very contrived and planned. Bus'ing is definitely a possibility here.Ether wrote:DGB, what are your thoughts on Bluesoul, and MBL's interactions with him?
Normally, I really don't like to try to connect people on D1. Usually not even until we have lynched scum. Maybe I'm playing on a lower level than the rest of you, but I feel like it just confuses things. I feel that it is a great scum tactic to set yourself up connected to a townie, or connect your buddy to a townie. So when you allow that sort of rampant BS speculation, you open the door for a lot of scum manipulation.
But maybe I'm not thinking about things in a complex enough way. Does speculating on scum buddies or groups on D1, actually help any of you? Am I being too simplistic?
And for the record, I do think that everyone that has tried making these "connections" on D1 is somewhat scummy. I'd have to look at individual instances to be able to comment on the exact degree of scumminess. But in general, I think it's scummy move.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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You might be right, but to assume that we don't have an SK is sort of weird IMO. I have been in tons of minis with SKs. And if you read my above post where I quote myself, no I do NOT find scum pairings at all useful on D1. I find them useful later when we have caught scum. Until that time, I see it mostly as confusion and manipulation.MrBuddyLee wrote:
This is bizarre. First off, it's unlikely that there would be a serial killer in an invitational game.. the net result would be a game of about half the length on average, most likely over in 3 days and extremely swingy. A terrible way to test the skill of the best vs. the best. More curiously, e_k claims to find my search for scum pairings unusual.. isn't that just about the best way to find scum in any game?elvis_knits wrote:My comment demonstrates the strangeness of MBL's level of certainty that I am scum, but only contemplates that I am mafia. Why doesn't he contemplate that I am an SK? Why is he so absorbed in finding my scum buddies before he actually finds out if I am scum or not?e_k, do you often find players scummy for pursuing possible scumpairings on D1? Is testing scumpairings not a tool in your personal scumhunting toolbox?
MBL wrote:e_k, you sound pissed that I'm on to you, enough so that you joined the "Anti-MBL Cult" in the General forum yesterday.I take that as a high compliment, and I don't think you'd be ticked enough to do that if you were town right now. I think I have you dead to rights and you really want DGB dead quickly (perhaps to make you look better?) so you can kill me off tonight before I ring you up.MBL, you sound pissed that I keep calling you on your BS arguments against me, enough so that you are bolding parts of your comments to me in an attempt to be more obnoxious.The post where you laid out your "case" against me is so full of holes that it isn't funny. I responded to every argument of yours and asked you several questions. You, however, have not responded to my post. You should realize this indicates you are beaten.
Also, I notice your stance on DGB is swinging crazily from "she's town let's give her a chance" to "she's e_k's scum partner."
Which is it?
Go ahead and beg her for information if you want. It just seems like you are assuming she is town, and trying to bring her round to being a more helpful townie. Which is an odd stance to take on someone I deem scummy.MBL wrote:
I'm not convinced that she's town by any means. But I don't think her posts have been thoroughly examined, nor the quality of the wagon on her. I'd like her to post a serious analysis of all other players, cause right now she's latched on to the mistaken idea that I'm scum and she "thinks everyone else is townish". Hardly solid information to go on tomorrow if DGB is our lynch of choice.elvis_knits wrote:Also, I find it weird that MBL seems to be giving DGB every possible avenue to make herself seem less scummy. What has convinced him that she is town and deserves this type of babying?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Why would scum know if there is a supersaint in the game?MrBuddyLee wrote:
I've never been in a game with a supersaint, but apparently:Ether wrote:If she's a supersaint, she should stop playing jester and claim; those are stronger later.
Since scum are the only people who would know whether or not the claim is true, they'd be the only people to know they should avoid hammering her. So once a supersaint claims, they're going to get nightkilled before scum would ever be forced to hammer them to end a day.However, when a majority of votes is reached on you, the last person to vote for you, or the commonly called person who places the "Hammer vote", or the one who votes to make a majority, will also die along with you.
So why would you encourage DGB to claim supersaint, Ether?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Thank you for at least proposing a solution instead of dicking around.bluesoul wrote:If you guys are really worried about the SS possibility, and think there's scum on the DGB wagon, roll a dice and we'll have our hammer. Personally I'd like to see Ether hammer but dice would be fair and unswayable by scum.
I unvoted DGB so that others could vote her in safety and I agreed to hammer. However, nobody has taken me up on this offer.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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DGB's analysis of me is just regurgitating points that MBL or Ether or Patrick have already made and the I have already responded to. If they didn't like my explanation, they should have argued the point at that time instead of waiting for DGB to ignore my explanations and bring up the points like they were new.
I also think it's scummy how Ether says she's not swayed by DGB's analysis and then jumps on my bandwagon.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I would also like to point out that we have fostered a very bad paranoid environment in this game where nobody can agree with another person without being accused of buddying, and nobody can attack another person without being accused of bussing. It's a very ass-backwards environment (that I think grows out of looking for scum buddies on D1 with no solid evidence to run off of), that severely favors scum and manipulation.
OF COURSE, scum will sometimes buddy up to townies and they will sometimes buss on another. But I don't think it should be the primary or only way you look for scum on D1.
I will say that I was stirring the pot a little in the beginning of this game to get it going. I never said anything I didn't believe or purposely try to trap anyone. But I did say things in a way that I hoped would be a little inflamatory and generate discussion. But most of the points against me are of the paranoid ass-backwards variety that I explained above. AND I believe I have already responded to all of them in other places in the game. If you don't agree with my explanation, please respond to that instead of bringing up things I have already responded to.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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It's not that I'm not looking for relationships at all, but I think that most players are relying heavily on pairings as a means of scum hunting. And I think that's dangerous on D1 with no scum dead. First of all because you're very likely to be wrong. Second of all because it opens up all sorts of room for scum tactics. When I'm scum, I try to link one or more of my buddies with other townies. It's a classic scum tactic. Worst case scenario I bring town a townie while I buss my buddy and look more townie. Best case scenario I lynch a townie and make my buddy look more townie.MrBuddyLee wrote:Elvis, if you're not looking for relationships between players, please explain what signs you ARE looking for in order to spot scum in this game.
So basically, I don't like it when people are linking other people together on D1. When we have lynched scum or it comes closer to endgame, I think there is more info to be had and yes, looking at partnerships becomes very important.
But it's hardly the only tool to find scum. And I think we're relying too heavily on it.
What other standards do I use to hunt scum? I look for posts or people I think are being manipulative. Example: how you, MBL, keep chopping people's quotes and then misreading them. Or how Patrick used the word "parotting" to describe me, which I think includes a lot of spin. I look for things which just don't add up to me -- like how Ether says she wants to lynch DGB, that she's not swayed by DGB's posts, and then jumps on my bandwagon. Or how DGB votes for me BEFORE doing her analysis of other players. Usually you come to a conclusion on who to vote after analyzing everyone. You don't analyze one person and vote for them, and then go and look at everyone else. This implies she WANTS to vote for me. She is looking for reasons to vote for me. Also, her case on me is completely unoriginal. She just strung together a bunch of crap I have already responded to.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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OGML mentions you in only two posts. Is this cute too?DrippingGoofball wrote:OGML mentions elvis only once.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 36#1161236
It's like elvis does not even exist for OGML in this game. Isn't that a s-t-r-a-n-g-e non-relationship between two players?
I haven't even started with OGML, but this was to cute to delay.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I have just taken the time to count how many posts each player was mentioned in OGML's posts. The results are as follows:DrippingGoofball wrote:Not quite so cute as him ignoring your existence; he mentions you in non-game related banter only. Otherwise, you don't exist for him.
Sarc: 9
MBL:5
Bluesoul: 4
Ether: 4
PJ: 3
DGB: 2
Patrick: 1
Elvis: 1
IH: 0
Elias: 0
Chamber: 0
I am making this chart to demonstrate the idiocy of connecting one player to another because one of htem has mentioned the other a total of 1 time. Or 2 times. Or 0 times. DGB and quite a few others are not looking at the big picture. If OGML has mentioned Patrick and elvis 1 time and IH, Elias, and Chamber 0 times, you can hardly draw a connection to one of those players solely on the basis of how many times they are mentioned.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Also, talk about giving someone a free pass.DrippingGoofball wrote:MBL is townie-town-town. Which he would be regardless of his alignment. He recently fooled me quite thoroughly in mith's latest game but I can't really find flaw in his play here either. He's going to drive me crazy all game that way.
More to come.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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DrippingGoofball wrote:
This is MBL we're talking about. He's playing a perfect townie game.elvis_knits wrote:Also, talk about giving someone a free pass.
I'd have to disagree.
What do you make of MBL's convenient chopping of people's quotes?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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You're missing the point. It's not that he chopped quotes to make it easier to read. He chopped quotes, taking out the most important part of the quote, and misunderstood what people were saying in a way that he could not have misunderstood had he quoted everything. It was very convenient.DrippingGoofball wrote:
I do that all the time myself for the sake of brevity and increasing the chances that people will actually read the quote. If I remove something I'll usually replace with with the [...] convention. I don't see that as scummy, sorry. If you find anything else scummy about MBL, I'm all ears, though.elvis_knits wrote:What do you make of MBL's convenient chopping of people's quotes?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I don't see how you're the driving force behind my wagon. DGB's regurgitated case got my wagon going, not you. I really don't think the consensus in this game is "MBL is townie town town" for anyone but DGB.
Also, please see the way you snipped bluesoul to misunderstand him.Talk nerdy to me.
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To throws suspicion on other players.
Also, I think sometimes as scum you start to do underhanded things without even realizing them. Because you're not thinking like a townie. Even though you think you are.Talk nerdy to me.
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