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FIIIIRSSSTTTTTTT

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VOTE: datisi

this is pre-emptive omgus

Umlaut conftown

i don't have other reads yet

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lucaaaaaa whatup

it's been a while

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VOTE: datisi

please be town.

statistically datisi is pretty much scum here

ask him, he knows why

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luckily for me i'm confident that this time i'll be able to read them correctly, after several misses :p

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i just have to reverse whatever it is i think there allignment is

ez

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I iz pgo

No look, no touch

Spoiler: gif warning

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UNVOTE:
VOTE: anya

that L-1 was dirtier then my grandma's socks AND THAT'S SAYING SOMETHING

GETTEM BOYZ

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wtf is happening

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Spoiler: gif

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seriously tho, flipping anya at this point gives a +average chance of hitting scum imo lol

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we're massclaiming

go go go

you happen to be related to Not_Mafia?

that would explain a few things

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for the way they put you at L1, obviously

it's not about you specifically, but coming in hot like that just smells like scum thinking they had an opportunity for lolhammer potential

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what

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well shit

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Beautiful day...

seriously tho, flipping anya at this point gives a +average chance of hitting scum imo lol

I think this is true early but I dont think its for the same thing you do

Vote Anya

Continued extension of RVS just moving around doing nothing is anti-town at best. Seems pretty clear that at least a third of the game already thinks this is true (RVS is over) so we should just start being productive. Coming from an era where deadline was normally n2+1 this is an absurdly fast game so lets start going.

i disagree with this so hard

This isn't continued RVS, is it? It's page 2 or smt? 3? I didn't read that like they were intentionally stretching out RVS. Which I wouldn't scumread anyway.

Are you one of those people who scumread memeing?

[Iconeum]

I’m in a good mood today, despite feeling a bit sick.

Hello everyone!

Let’s have fun.

VOTE: Datisi

VOTE: datisi

I'm vanilla

This is Scum btw. Guaranteed.

> "this is scum"
> *votes with said scum*

you know it's a good game when this is the conversation

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Datisi is towny I think, not going to talk about why yet. I also want to TR the early energy from ico and anya, especially ico

oof

I don't mind being townread, and ur not wrong, but basing it on

energy?

These feel like a bunch of very easy townreads. Why just anya and me, and not the others who are being 'energetic'?

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I mean

Buddying datisi, saying Andre's is easy to push as scum here and questions him anyway, and his last post was a weird attempt to make it seem like I was spurting nonsense in pushing his wagon.

Like, idk. His iso really speaks for himself. Alternatively, why is llama scum? Not only is it not weird for him to make the push away from RVS the way he did, and forcing the game state to become serious, but also moving the game away from RVS is always a pro town move

On another note, will I see infinity getting his mojo back?

It's townie (but also boring) to push past RVS, but it's something EXTREMELY easy to fake as scum. I wouldn't give too many townie points just for *trying to get serious*

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we're massclaiming

go go go

self fruit vendor

gyp is co-modding this

so you are probably an anouncing-self-fruit-vendor at the very least but ok

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llama, for someone so determined to get us moving out of rvs and into The Serious Game... you've expressed one (1) read so far.

I really hate this post

why? i actually liked it

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llama, for someone so determined to get us moving out of rvs and into The Serious Game... you've expressed one (1) read so far.

I really hate this post

i really like this post

wait this is actually important, anya

which post in that quote do you like? the Umlaut one or the datisi one?

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Datisi is definitely town

if anyone pushes him i'm policy voting them with my sledgehammer

i am not ready to townread Datisi 'the Breaker of Scumranges' just yet

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Datisi is definitely town

if anyone pushes him i'm policy voting them with my sledgehammer

why are they locktown to you?

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yeah Luca's post felt a little off like he's a skydiver who's decided to go scuba diving

and yet for every scummy ping you give me, one of these pops up and i just start laughing

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Also can we move on from Llama? They’re no fun, but they’re probably Town.

it's enough for an early day 1 townread sure

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i'm actually starting to think anya is town lol

her posts are so free of care, literally giving no shits and i love it

i don't think that comes from scum

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Well Datisi has been Town literally every time I’ve played with him so this might be correct

yeahhhhhhhhhh

no

i think he rolled scum against me in 95% of our latest 892 games or smt

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Llama and Datisi interacting in ways that I don't see scum doing

do i have some bad news for you...

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Datisi is definitely town

if anyone pushes him i'm policy voting them with my sledgehammer

Datisi is capable of obvtowning to the nth degree, so I wouldn’t be so fast to locktown him based on his play so far

i'll add that datisi has had a TON of scum practice lately and it's improved dramatically

i've made the mistake of giving him way too easy of a townread in the past and i'm not willing to make that mistake right now

fortunately, i think i can use past experience for this game and get a much better read

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VOTE: rathe

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i've spent a few posts telling people to not give you those townreads for *reasons*, do you think that is unjustified?

why? recent history maybe? i am committing to my paranoia this game

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do you think anya is town as well? how do you like my rathe vote?

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Infinity’s as well

I did get a slight s/s feeling from Anya’s sudden vote on Infinity but independently she seems fine so far

I’m not sure what to make of Anya

i'm actually starting to think anya is town lol

her posts are so free of care, literally giving no shits and i love it

i don't think that comes from scum

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don't get the vote / mildly dislike it but eh. why you voting [rathe]?

@ico

Do you have any opinion on what I said about OutWorldER, Datisi?

i like your line of thinking. will await to see ower's return to the thread before passing further judgement.

samantha, how long are you gonna pretend to scumread me? it's getting old.

i think rathe can be scum

you don't?

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It's townie (but also boring) to push past RVS, but it's something EXTREMELY easy to fake as scum. I wouldn't give too many townie points just for *trying to get serious*

??? y the vote

i think you can be scum this game

do you think i should be townreading you?

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it's enough for an early day 1 townread sure

??? y 202

it's some my thoughts on llama

not sure what ur asking here

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i think llamafluff is town

why

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I hope outworlder doesn't fall behind this game, I want to play with him. So I'm gonna stop posting for a bit.

VOTE: Infinity

why do you think he could fall behind? already tired and want to take a break???

I don’t know why but I got an s/s vibe from this

y just that infinity seems to know outworlder anya probably not

(i'm getting Cyrus vibes… )

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he *can* be, yes, as can the other 11 players in the game. but as said, i've not yet seen a *good* reason why he's >rand scum, so...?

well if i had a *good* reason to think it, i'd have said it by now

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Im hiding behind ending the RVS by being assertive in trying to end RVS?

no not the same i said i think u r doing the opposite
instead of hiding behind rvs u want to move out cuz its what town would do

It almost feels like you are saying "He is scum because he is trying to do town things" which is pretty much exactly what town does... unless you are trying to argue that as town I would have just well enough alone and let RVS continue? This feels more like you are attacking my game theory and playstyle than you are saying what I am doing is scummy.

no i dont get into all that stuff its confusing

rathe basicly says that he believes scum like to hide behind RVS, then proceeds to scumread llama

for pushing the game out of RVS

he even says that he thinks that is what town would do

yet comes to scum!llama conclusion

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So you are voting me because you dont like that I have more of a no-nonsense playstyle?

i think mafia can hide behind rvs but i think u could be doing the opposite

it's right here

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-rathe: i think mafia can hide behind RVS
-rathe: sees llama push out of RVS
-also rathe: i think it's a townie thing to push out of RVS
-also also rathe: yeah llama is scum because he pushes out of RVS

this is pretty much it yeah

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rathe basicly says that he believes scum like to hide behind RVS

this never happened.

"you're just doing what town would do" is not the same as "i think town (and only town) would do that"

that is a bad case yeah

this is very defensive towards rathe datisi

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"i think mafia CAN hide behind rvs" is not the same as "mafia always hide behind rvs and anyone who is doing that is scum and anyone doing the opposite is town"

pedit: oh my god, are you purposefully misrepping there?

his mindset is literally that *scum* can hide behind RVS, which indicates he believes *scum* do that

otherwise you don't word it like that

he doesn't say town, he says scum

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like, he literally says he think SCUM can hide behind RVS, and the TOWN like to push out of it

then he sees llama push out of it

and scumreads him for it???

why are you defending this lol

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are you trying to get me out of my vote here?

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is townconeum really thia dense

i'm here wondering if towntisi really wants to defend this so hard

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but like

if ur scum defending, then it's probably only *with* rathe so yeah

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datisi, i think it's plenty for my push right now and idgaf if u think it's absolutely dense and terrible

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but like

if ur scum defending, then it's probably only *with* rathe so yeah

how the fuck is your first thought "wow is datisi scum with rathe" as opposed to "hey, maybe i should actually read and try to understand what his point is"????????

dude stop

i'm not saying you are scum with rathe

i'm saying IF you are scum it's WITH rathe

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like, he literally says he think SCUM can hide behind RVS, and the TOWN like to push out of it

then he sees llama push out of it

and scumreads him for it???

why are you defending this lol

scum CAN hide behind rvs =/= scum always hides behind rvs, or it's the only thing scum does early game

like he clearly said "scum can hide behind rvs, but i think you're the opposite (hiding behind pushing out of rvs)"

like saying "town does push out of rvs" is not the same thing as "ONLY town push out of rvs" i.e. "scum cannot push out of rvs or hide behind it"

(and considering for a while you believed that it was your duty as either alignemnt to push out of rvs, i think you should know this)

like he's OBVIOUSLY not scumreading him for "pushing out of rvs", he's scumreading him for giving the appearnce of being helpful / "hiding behind pushing out of rvs"

like literally at no point was there a mindset broken here??? and the fact that you refuse to even acknowledge that is?????

the entire reason i made a certain past about not giving llama towncredit for pushing out of RVS is exactly because i did it as both alllignments at one point and it's so easy to fake as scum

rathe's argument has holes in it and i'm happy poking them, and i don't see why you take such huge offense to that

[Iconeum]

same fucking thing
you're not trying to understand my points, you're countering the attack by plotting it into people's heads that i'm chainsawing

ok mayyyybe

you go get some rest and we can continue this when ur fresh?

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ico what do you think of samantha

i am enjoying both Samantha and anya beyond anything i've recently seen in-game

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ok fine

i'm arguing my pov a bit too strong here, but you are overly defending someting that shouldn't be defended quite that hard

i'll take a draw here

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oh and dats

when are you gonna vote rathe

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that's a surprisingly good post from samantha

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Disagreeing with reasoning also opens up different avenues of information

It seems to me that Datisi is pursuing this to work out Icon’s alignment more than it being about protecting Rathe

And fwiw I agree that the reasoning doesn’t make sense

my reasoning, or rathe's?

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i think everyone in this game should embrace their inner Cyrus

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i was just about to say everyone on this page could be town but then

you

showed up Luca

it's interesting that luca isn't voting luca

pretty sure they are buddies at this point

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It's townie (but also boring) to push past RVS, but it's something EXTREMELY easy to fake as scum. I wouldn't give too many townie points just for *trying to get serious*

Well sure. Pretty sure I've done it once or twice as scum. Its NAI at best, but do you think llama warrants the early scum reads he got for it?

ofcourse not, i think i said as much

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i don’t want to be townread or pocketed but i want u to be smart

u r not being smart iconeum

i don't think u handled my vote poorly

for what it's worth, i didn't misinterpret you on purpose

UNVOTE:

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

I can do this

Vote Icon

They are heavily misinterpreting Rathe (who has recently made it even more clear their thoughts) but those things happen. I was thinking the same thing for quite a while and now think I understand his theory on what happened early game. What bugs me more are two primary thing

1) Icon seems to just ignore that Rathe walked back the vote and agreed with an earlier statement of mine. While that would not really excuse a strong tell, it seems like a pretty major fact to ignore. If you just iso Icon, you would be pretty confident that Rathe is either heavily pushing my wagon, if not at least on it. Instead he is calling me town, which again was walked back under very little if any pressure. Really walked back just on me trying to figure out his thought process and motivations. It seems like the current location of Rathe's vote has zero impact on the case as far as Icon is concerned, which in turn is concerning itself. It feels more like a PR based read as it ignores things and seems overconfident. Since it cant be (as im pretty sure "Day" isnt a normal modifier)... becomes a bit two weak for me.

2) This entire thing is based on a misinterpretation (Rathe has recently confirmed such) and the massive back and forth between Icon and Dats could be solved by just asking a very direct question to Rathe. As already stated, I think its just an implied pronoun that caused all of this. Rathe took it one way, Icon and I took it the other way. Instead of flooding a few pages with an increasingly hostile and difficult to read back and forth, ask the question. It feels stubborn, by everyone involved in that. Stubborn is increasingly difficult to read because it turns into a back and forth noise loop that no one wants to deal with.

It just feels like Icon decided im town (when as Rathe pointed out "I wouldn't give too many townie points just for *trying to get serious*") and has been acting accordingly.

The fact that all of this has gone so far, especially since all that really needed to happen was a clear conversation with Rathe, is very annoying. If everyone involved in this exchange is town, im going be unhappy because it just means we added a ton of noise that gave us nothing.

@OW - In light of your original "This is all TvTvT" read, can you give a read on the Icon-Dats-Raeth thing and explain how it differs (if it does)?
@Luca - What is your read on Dats?
@Samantha - Does the Icon/Dats exchange change your reads on Raeth?
@Dats - Read on Samantha?

If they havent everyone should give a read of that big Icon-Dats-Raeth exchange. Im a little confused after how that just dominated so many pages how few are actually commenting on it.

walls…

if you think that i'm purposefully trying to twist rathe here, ur mistaken
it's ok, i'm very much used to this shit
if you really think i'm scum for this, go ahead and push me but make no mistake

i am not going to be the day 1 flip here

[Iconeum]

I'm not commenting on it because I didn't get much out of it. It feels to me like ico believes the read, and I recently finished a game where town!ico made a similar push. However, I'm likely going to trust datisi's read on ico if my TR on datisi keeps up.

this is exactly the case

unfortunately, it's what I do and who I am

it may be hard to swallow, but i genuinely saw what i saw...

[Iconeum]

I was going to wait for Icon to get back and respond to my post but I'm not patient enough for that.

VOTE: Iconeum

Pretty much what the Llama said. His push on Rathe is really flimsy and based on what seems like a bad-faith misread of Rathe's posts, which is okay for an early game push but he's treating it like a slam-dunk case to the point of trying to shade Datisi for defending him when he tries to set the record straight. And then trying to say in 280 that that's not what he was doing and that 274 is somehow not suggesting Datisi is scum, only to say again in 292 that he is "overly defending" Rathe. Unless this is supposed to be just a general alignment-neutral criticism of how Datisi plays it seems like it's obviously implying Datisi is sus, so why try to deny that's what he's saying?

(Aside: "Why are you defending so-and-so" is the most annoying insinuation ever. I will defend whoever I want against ill-founded accusations, it's called playing Mafia.)

It is a necesarry dance I have to do with him. There

Also fuck off, I was asleep. You can take your bad-faith misread and shove it. If you can't see that it's a genuine read then you just push me ok. Let's see what happens.

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VOTE: Icon

how about now Andre

i swear to god i'm ragequitting this site if i am hammered before my catchup

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i'll take on anyone of you who thinks that push on rathe came from scum!coneum

alternatively, you can accept it's the kind of cases you will be seeing from me for the rest of the game

your choice

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I was going to wait for Icon to get back and respond to my post but I'm not patient enough for that.

VOTE: Iconeum

Pretty much what the Llama said. His push on Rathe is really flimsy and based on what seems like a bad-faith misread of Rathe's posts, which is okay for an early game push but he's treating it like a slam-dunk case to the point of trying to shade Datisi for defending him when he tries to set the record straight. And then trying to say in 280 that that's not what he was doing and that 274 is somehow not suggesting Datisi is scum, only to say again in 292 that he is "overly defending" Rathe. Unless this is supposed to be just a general alignment-neutral criticism of how Datisi plays it seems like it's obviously implying Datisi is sus, so why try to deny that's what he's saying?

(Aside: "Why are you defending so-and-so" is the most annoying insinuation ever. I will defend whoever I want against ill-founded accusations, it's called playing Mafia.)

VOTE: Umlaut

It was datisi who was projecting my case on rather like it was a slam dunk rather then what it actually was

he literally made me go so hard for it
if you are actually agreeing that it's a fine early game push, but you also think it's a bad faith read

ur not being honest here

[Iconeum]

i don't really see or agree with the outworld scumread

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i read his ISO and i just see a bunch of opinions on stuff that is happening, analysis

it reads like he is attempting to solve the game

[Iconeum]

I would need to read Student Council again but I think this kind of buddying (perhaps the wrong word but the stuff in 138, 154, and 158) is normal for Infinity? I don't see a reason to be suspicious of it regardless.

The Llama/Datisi thing reads as TvT to me. I don't think either party puts themselves out there like this as scum. I don't see a lot of reason for scum to want to end RVS early and Rathe trying to push Llama for that does not exactly give me good feelings about that slot.

VOTE: Rathe

I really dislike this post

The first paragraph is just filler, like he’s trying to look as though he’s really considering things but it’s pretty meaningless

Second paragraph: Why does Datisi get a pass based on this reasoning but not Rathe? By the looks of it Rathe is a relative newbie, so if picking fights then early doors in town-indicative (as Outworld seems to think) then why are you SR’ing him for it?

like this one

you say the first part is filler, but it's actually a meta read based on previous experience. I don't see a problem with that.

The second part reminds me of my own case on Rathe, which you dismissed/disagreed with my reasonings.

[Iconeum]

I read his iso and there are too few posts

he should comment on more things

well yes, but in the few posts he does have there is enough solving intent and mindset to not scumread him imo

having too few posts a couple days into the game isn't scum indicative

[Iconeum]

throw your vote on me as well then, if you truly scumread me

let's see how that turns out

[Iconeum]

indeed

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c'mon ico, since when does me starting a petty fight with you mean that i scumread you?

i said already this is a dance we have to do

you got any townreads yet?

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the good part is that the wagon on me *should* help you sort me rather easily imo

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if you don't already know my allignment that is :p

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i like both anya and Samantha's posting a lot

but in a funny way and not in a +townie way if you know what i mean

Samantha does have the occasional strong post tho

[Iconeum]

it feels like an easy way to get others to discredit me?

no one has credit to begin with

you're super defensive of both yourself and rathe for no reason, trying to stomp out a potential avenue of information just because you supposedly don't agree with the reason for going down that road (or trying to create some kind of association with him for later)

the reason doesn't matter because votes aren't vigshots, as much as I'd like mine to be

posts like these give me townie vibes, because I agree with it and just feels like how i see the game

[Iconeum]

from all the votes on me, i get the most ingenuine feeling from Umlaut. Sam and anya's vote are probably just trolling.

Llama I think doesn't know me enough to see this is 100% town!coneum, so i'm not even surprised someone is scumreading me for how I push people.

Umlaut felt most opportunistic, even tho i think scum!laut would be happy to just votepark anya? I'm not sure

[Iconeum]

I think we shouldn't be pushing Samantha, that is all.

[Iconeum]

Umlaut felt most opportunistic, even tho

i think scum!laut would be happy to just votepark anya

? I'm not sure

where did this come from?

wasn't he on the anya wagon prior to sheeping llama onto me?

[Iconeum]

ok i thought anya was the main counterwagon to me, not sam

[Iconeum]

i am very much here, zoomer

what's up

[Iconeum]

the pain of sleeping through rvs thus you cant make a good first impression

> "this is scum"
> *votes with said scum*

My vote was RVS. You need to calm down.

mild overreaction

you don't get to tell me when rvs is over

VOTE: Llama

Okay now I really like the Anya vote. She just ignored a ton of content and threw out a pretty heavy OMGUS/Sheeping vote at the same time.

unstoppable force meets immovable object

i had a couple early small scumpings from you, mostly based on these posts

the first one shows you wanted to make a good impression, which I related to *omg only scum are worried etc*

the second and third ones lacked a conclusion and are just generix statements...

are you scum here?

[Iconeum]

confbiasing and attempting to accuse someone of chainsawing for no reason is a bit different

your latest post as well

what do you think of it, more then 'it's different'?

[Iconeum]

@sam

why is umlaut your top townread

and what has anya done that is townie according to you?

[Iconeum]

oh no those names were just names I didn't do yet

Spoiler: fuck rule number 4 or whatever the number is

[Iconeum]

fair warning sam

if ur gonna post lists like that, people are going to assume it's a readslist townie top to bottom so yeah

[Iconeum]

Spoiler: fuck rule number 4 or whatever the number is

yeah I planned on saying something similar to that when I posted a gif

apparently satan himself is hosting this game

indeed

do you think my townread on you is justified?

[Iconeum]

like, it's easy to make generic statements like 'this is different' and 'this is an overreaction'. It doesn't tell me what *you* feel about the post. If you are gonna quote something and make a remark, i'd expect it to mean something to you yeah?

It reads like you are trying to appear busy, but ur not actually sorting.

[Iconeum]

confbiasing and attempting to accuse someone of chainsawing for no reason is a bit different

your latest post as well

what do you think of it, more then 'it's different'?

implying i severely dislike it
this ‘youre sus if you disagree with me’ attitude you had against datisi was scummy
rather than attacking the argument you attacked the player by trying to discredit him

saying 'this is different' can literally go both ways… for good or for bad

i never actually scumread datisi, it is part of an ancient ritual so old that it that rivals time itself… did you see that datisi is townreading me currently? There's a reason for that.

I don't think i ever tried to discredit anyone this game.

[Iconeum]

and funnily enough youre doing the same thing with me as well

what am i doing to you exactly do you think?

if the answer is sorting, then DING DING DING you are correct!

[Iconeum]

like, it's easy to make generic statements like 'this is different' and 'this is an overreaction'. It doesn't tell me what *you* feel about the post. If you are gonna quote something and make a remark, i'd expect it to mean something to you yeah?

It reads like you are trying to appear busy, but ur not actually sorting.

its very deceitful to make me look like im faking/forcing content by isolating three posts of my entire iso

i asked about specific posts that I got pings from, do you have a problem with that? You seem agitated that i'm questioning a couple of your posts here

[Iconeum]

i don't find Icon's Rathe case wolfy i think it's fair even if surface (if not basement) level

but i DO find the reaction to Dats weird where Dats is explaining to Icon that he's misinterpreting Rathe's post and Ico characterizes it as

defending

LOCK HIM UP

^this
theres a huge misrepresentation that the icon wagon is about his rathe push

i was pushing rathe, datisi was telling me the push is bad

if i said that datisi was defending rathe, that was because he was, in fact, defending rathe

[Iconeum]

@OutWorldER what do you think of the fact that Ico and Samantha are our leading vote getters so far?
@Mom same question to you.

Ico's wagon seems to be built on Town looking at a bad case and not really thinking beyond that, outside of Samantha's vote which is just lol.
Samantha was a wagon I was inclined to say was just low-hanging fruit but recent developments make me think the slot is just scum.

example A

i'm glad you brought this post up, i missed a part in there

@Outworlder, why is Samantha scum? I townread the slot so yeah.

[Iconeum]

i don't think you know the definition of shading

[Iconeum]

or maybe i don't

*shrug*

[Iconeum]

i don't think you know what OMGUS means either lol

[Iconeum]

so i ask you a couple questions about a few posts you made, and you think that's me OMGUS'ing you?

[Iconeum]

ok then

[Iconeum]

i mean, you could call my umlaut vote an omgus, i guess

[Iconeum]

everything i posted towards datisi was with a single purpose

i have not yet reached said purpose

[Iconeum]

do you really still not townread me?

the North remembers

[Iconeum]

so i ask you a couple questions about a few posts you made, and you think that's me OMGUS'ing you?

im not convinced that you suddenly go after the weakest player on your wagon with disingenuous arguments because you so innocently wish to solve me

ur on my wagon?

[Iconeum]

oh you are

yeah ok you can call it an omgus then lol

[Iconeum]

so i ask you a couple questions about a few posts you made, and you think that's me OMGUS'ing you?

im not convinced that you suddenly go after the weakest player on your wagon with disingenuous arguments because you so innocently wish to solve me

have you seen the part where i'm sorting every single vote on my wagon?

[Iconeum]

and not just yours?

[Iconeum]

sam/anya/llama/umlaut

and now you, then

why do you think i'm going after the 'weakest' one on me?

[Iconeum]

zoomer is prob town

[Iconeum]

spamconeum is back in town boys

[Iconeum]

@zoomer

what exactly are my so-called disengenous arguments?

[Iconeum]

Apparently most players in this game are active when im asleep or unavailable at work. Will try and get read up tonight but I dont really have much time today. More likely I get fully caught up after work Friday.

Oh look, seven new pages.

I'm going to try and skim them but probably won't really be able to read in-depth until later tonight.

oh look what a surprise

both players who initiated the push on me are laying low now that there's a wagon on me

there's scum in these 2, umlaut over llama i think

yeet please

[Iconeum]

Iconeum case on zoomer seems pretty weak too and Zoomer's responses in 457 etc. ring towny to me. I actually really like how Zoomer is responding to the push and using it to better sort Icon (though it's hard to separate that out from agreeing with the conclusion)

what case?

i pushed zoomer to get a read on the dude and got to a townie conclusion
it ain't much but i'm happy to townpile him for day 1

like you say, he responded pretty townie and i got to that conclusion so why are you giving me crap about something that was actually usefull not only to me but apparently to you as well??

scumlaut is that you?

[Iconeum]

I'm gonna be dealing with a literal psychopath all day so I'm gonna post this half finished and finish/repost later

Umlaut
LlamaFluff
Datisi
esotericzoomer
Rathe

likely town
Infinity 324

less sure but lean town
Iconeum

on ice
Anya - no meta to base anything off of, in general she has posted town stuff though

less sure but lean mafia
Momrangal
Andresvmb - has never had a mafia game; one thing that was disturbing was explaining his vote on me after the fact viewtopic.php?p=12674445#p12674445 - ALL of his votes in the 2 town games I read were either naked or had very brief explanations (one-liners)

likely mafia
OutWorldER - totally contradictory mindset re:past self; only reason he isn't below Luca is his post count
Luca Blight (actually, after writing this, I was re-skimming what I thought was this game's iso and was like, "wow was I wrong? he's different here", but it was actually a game he was town in lol)

sam, why are you voting your townlean?

[Iconeum]

ico, your outworld townread (or whatever it is) feels a little bit... unfounded. anything specifically that you actually *liked*? (link me if you've already talked about this)

it isn't as much that i specifically townread him, but i disagree with luca about scumreading him

[Iconeum]

i'm not sure what ur asking of me here?

my push on rathe was based on a logical problem, which is similar to what happened there

coming to a conclusion opposite to what you'd expect based on prior post etc

[Iconeum]

if that doesn't answer it, then you should rephrase your question

[Iconeum]

tl;dr the post 176 by itself is *fine*.

that's what i thought, and why i told luca that i don't think it warrants a scumread

[Iconeum]

who's…

who's the bunny again?

[Iconeum]

i'm not committing to defending someone who has fewer posts then the mod

[Iconeum]

how about we exe in the people who have fewer then 15% of my posts every day? xd

[Iconeum]

i see your limited access and raise you one

weekend VLA

[Iconeum]

it's been a fairly productive day 1

to be fair it's not even been 150 pages yet

[Iconeum]

Their reaction to Andres pressure was that of somebody who definitely wanted to not be pressured there couldn't be arsed (or didn't know how) to do anything remotely towny or even actually defend themselves. Feels like scum not knowing what to do in that situation but inclined to react regardless

do you think that not wanting to be pressured is something unique for scum?

Samantha's actually had a few really good thoughts imo

[Iconeum]

outworld

and psa if outworld flips scum we're nuking luca next

Why do you think Luca is a partner for me in this scenario? Actually, where's your read on Luca coming from in general, because I don't feel like that slot has done anything too egregious or noteworthy in either direction.

Spoiler: Animated Gif

Fixed it! <3

[Iconeum]

OH CRAP I DIDN'T SPOILER IT OMG

PLS NO MODKILLLLLL

[Iconeum]

PRETTYYYYY PLEASSSEEEE

[Iconeum]

rawr!

i have return

[Iconeum]

If you're town then why do you have to make such bullshit pushes?

if i'm scum, why would i be making such bullshit pushes?

i don't get why you are scumreading me

[Iconeum]

oh hi luca

i'm a couple pages behind

[Iconeum]

@Icon

In light on this post

-rathe: i think mafia can hide behind RVS
-rathe: sees llama push out of RVS
-also rathe: i think it's a townie thing to push out of RVS
-also also rathe: yeah llama is scum because he pushes out of RVS

this is pretty much it yeah

yes
yes
no
yes i said mafia can hide behind rvs but instead of doing that i felt like llama was doing the opposite
this was before i read 110
y is this hard to understand

Does that change your read on Rathe at all? What happened to that push? It seems like you just dropped it after multiple people seemed to sheep my reasoning that you are heavily misinterpreting him and just accused me, jump on Umulat for... sheeping me and "knowing better"?

@umulat - It looks like Icon voted you because they are claiming you should know their meta. Do you feel you can read them?
@OW - You say the wagon of Icon is because of "Town looking at a bad case"... what does that mean with respect to players voting Icon?
@Andre - Can you give thoughts on alignments and wagons of Icon, Umulat and OW?
@Luca - Thoughts on Icon? You seem to agree that he was at least misunderstanding Rathe but never really followed anything up there.

i got what i wanted from the push, and i think i adressed as much
it's probably somewhere in my iso

also if anyone got me to relook at my own case it was datisi, not you

also also why do i get the feeling from this post that i was damned if i do, damned if i don't?

Like, you spent so much time saying how bad my case was, and based on a misinterpratation… and then I go away from it and I eat crap for … dropping it?

this still has potential to just be scum but i'm not sure if *both* scum would instigating the same wagon here? (scumlaut + scumllama)?

i know i'm biased but i'm smelling scum on my wagon

[Iconeum]

rawr!

i have return

why were you elsewhere on the site but not here

if ur talking about the birthday thread...

it's one thing to post a SINGLE line in there without any meaning, then to post in a game of mafia where it's also preferable that I'm *not* drunk

[Iconeum]

(If Dats is scum Icon immediately becomes one of my strongest town reads due to his "If I was scum that would be an easy spot to park my vote" implies Icon-town in a way that isnt typically the way town approaches the game)

i never said that? like i said the exact opposite, even if i were scum, i sure as hell wouldn't park my vote on ico for the reasoning i'd provided, because that all but locks me into a 1v1 with him for the rest of the game.

in my experience, datisi townreading me at this point is NAI

both scumtisi and towntisi would probably be doing that at this point

[Iconeum]

no you logged in at least once in between then

and?

[Iconeum]

Usually when I get pushed into having to approach things from a "what would I have done as scum" scenario I need to go back and read again because I dont know and am not thinking about it, and its very hard to just naturally inject that into a conversation because it involves building up an entirely new thought process.

i've had the misfortune of playing scum against towncounem 6 times in the last ~9 months. at this point, "how to play around town!ico" is basically second nature to me.

though i agree this is getting into not-very-useful theory. ready to reveal your read on outworld?

this is exactly true, so datisi i'm not sure why you were wondering why i *still* wasn't townreading you?

[Iconeum]

and that answers your question

was it a question you actually want an answer for or?

[Iconeum]

Im less sure on Icon. Trying to see if this is more town who is locked into stubbornness regarding Rathe or if its more of scum doubling down. Either way its probably at least half Icon believing in their reasoning, even if they are scum. Him ignoring everyone but Umulat is odd too. Right now I want to see what his current read on Rathe is.

who the fuck is doubling down ?
i'm ignoring everyone but umlaut? I adressed every single vote on my wagon with at least a basic analysis.
And I already continued my 1v1 with Rathe to it's conclusion

gtfo son

[Iconeum]

i would say the reason llamafluff is voting for iconeum is weird because everyone else townreads it

i mean, the reason was ok last week - several players voted me for the same reason. But right now he's just ignoring the sequel to our discussion so he can stick to his scumread on me i guess?

[Iconeum]

that doesnt necessarily clear him of all suspicion for that pisspoor push, regardless of if he walked it back or not its still wolfy

town do wolfy things sometimes

something being wolfy doesnt always mean the player is a wolf

town make bad pushes mafia wanna be careful

there are actually really good takes and are very much applicable to me...

players with actual experience with town!coneum can attest to this lol

[Iconeum]

i read his ISO and i just see a bunch of opinions on stuff that is happening, analysis

it reads like he is attempting to solve the game

It reads to me like he's attempting to

look

like he's solving the game, rather than actually trying to do so

There is a subtle but important distinction there

im probably not good enough at this game to notice that distinction anyway

[Iconeum]

i think zoomer is showing vaguely townie reasonings, and i do like that he's had the readslist out decently fast, but his read on umlaut feels... meh. maybe bc i disagree with it but it feels too easy. like scumlaut knows how to make rational points? those posts really aren't that confrontational? time will tell i guess.

I'm getting scum vibes from this

Why exactly?

[Iconeum]

@Luca - Thoughts on Icon? You seem to agree that he was at least misunderstanding Rathe but never really followed anything up there.

Yes, I'm aware. I'm still working out Icon, but I know illogical pushes aren't scum-indicative of him, as Datisi said

Right now I'd probably lean-town but it's not a confident read

let's talk about datisi then

i think they are more likely town then scum

[Iconeum]

Oh I forgot about Momrangal, she is my strongest TR atm

I would blow up Luca here for this reason alone.

andres you scum or?

[Iconeum]

I’ve only read the first ten pages again or so. Datisi is Town. So is Rathe.

I don’t feel like I want to shoot myself reading Datisi’s early takes. So they’re Town.

why are you taking jabs at people if you've only read a small part of the game?

[Iconeum]

Oh I forgot about Momrangal, she is my strongest TR atm

I would blow up Luca here for this reason alone.

why

Because Momrangal at that stage as your top TR just doesn’t make any sense. I think I have a way to figure out whether Mom is Town. But by then they had absolutely not revealed their alignment nearly enough for you to call them your top Town. At least I didn’t think so.

that's… actually not the worst reason ok

[Iconeum]

Icon, do you feel like Datisi is reading you as Town a little too easily here?

From my previous game with you two this normally never happens, but idk about more recently

mmm i'd say us townreading each other during day 1 is extremely NAI, and is probably done by any combination of allignments between the 2 of us

i think with the push i did and the fallout from it, towntisi is very much capable of correctly townreading me at this point and scumtisi would be able to fake it so yeah

[Iconeum]

Also your whole view of the game was literally opposite of mine. So I figured I would push you on it.

also not a bad reason

[Iconeum]

Icon, do you feel like Datisi is reading you as Town a little too easily here?

From my previous game with you two this normally never happens, but idk about more recently

whyyyyy does this smell like "oh shit datisi might push me and i'll have to fight it, but ik if he starts obvtowning i'm fucking dead, ay yo ico datisi is kinda scummy right riiiight???"

i'm definitely getting the feeling that luca isn't very comfortable with the current gamestate between us here

[Iconeum]

Oh I forgot about Momrangal, she is my strongest TR atm

I would blow up Luca here for this reason alone.

andres you scum or?

I haven’t had the fortune of playing Scum on this forum. But when I do, I’ll be sure to answer this question in the affirmative just to throw you off.

No, I’m not Scum. In fact I kind of want to roll Scum just to get it out of the way. In the meantime, you’ll have to deal with me being obnoxious.

meh, the posts you made after my callout blended out the pings i got

[Iconeum]

i think zoomer is showing vaguely townie reasonings, and i do like that he's had the readslist out decently fast, but his read on umlaut feels... meh. maybe bc i disagree with it but it feels too easy. like scumlaut knows how to make rational points? those posts really aren't that confrontational? time will tell i guess.

I'm getting scum vibes from this

Why exactly?

Difficult to explain, but it's like Datisi is trying to cast a shadow on Eso because he disagrees with his point on Umlaut, which doesn't really make eso more likely to be scum

or is reluctant for eso to be townread following his readslist so wants to undermine it in a subtle way

OR he's trying to figure out a slot that is kinda hard to figure out right now? A reason you seem to not even take into consideration?

i don't think scum!tisi plays scum like you are suggesting here

[Iconeum]

No, I was just genuinely curious as I always remember you being really paranoid of Icon and struggling to Townread him with confidence

ppppfpfpshhhhhhhh


this is so 2020

[Iconeum]

hey mom we haven't really talked yet i think

what's up

[Iconeum]

No, I was just genuinely curious as I always remember you being really paranoid of Icon and struggling to Townread him with confidence

ppppfpfpshhhhhhhh


this is so 2020

first half of 2020*

get your lore straight

(also is it even true? luca played... 2 games with both of us. the bs 2095 where we tore each other apart and autumnal where i actually *did* tr you p easily until lylo. thonk)

i just thought it was a funny answer

[Iconeum]

actually i do see that town!luca would be pushing datisi like this if he genuinely doesn't townread him

i don't think what luca is doing here has to be scum!indicative

[Iconeum]

I would blow up {Iconeum, Luca Blight, Umlaut, esotericzoomer} and hope to hit at least 2 Scum. Let’s see how well this post ages.

wait you *actually* are scum?

why do you scumread these players?

[Iconeum]

datisi do you agree that town!luca would be pushing you right now for said reasons?

i don't think this makes luca scum

[Iconeum]

VOTE: andres

making that kinda list and saying with confidence that you hit 2 scum when you only recently just said you haven't read past page 10 is absolute bullshit

[Iconeum]

actually i do see that town!luca would be pushing datisi like this if he genuinely doesn't townread him

i don't think what luca is doing here has to be scum!indicative

If I were scum I'd be trying to buddy Datisi (like I did very successfully last game)

Datisi seems to think I'd vote my partner D1 the same as last game, but doesn't seem to think I'd approach him in the same manner?

this is all WIFOM so meh

[Iconeum]

I would blow up {

Iconeum

, Luca Blight, Umlaut,

esotericzoomer

} and hope to hit at least 2 Scum. Let’s see how well this post ages.

talk to me about these two

I have mis-read Iconeum in the past. But they were pushing bad logic against Rathe (which you correctly called out), and I also agree that they seemed very intent in insisting a bit too heavily that you could be Scum and not to TR you. I actually think you’re not that hard to read. A bit harder to execute as Scum, perhaps, but somewhat transparent. I’ve liked your positioning so far. I think Ico is needlessly pushing misinformation about your slot.

esotericzoomer seemed to be supporting some of the bad logic a bit further from the background. I mean I TR Anya and Infinity too. So I thought I would include a quieter slot.

why is a bad logic push scum!indicative?
i have not yet scumread datisi this game, so please dont misrep me - and don't give me that crap about datisi not being hard to read

you go read our last -6- games or something and make your conclusion from that instead of such a cheap jab

wait you think i'm pushing datisi? and 'pushing misinformation'? You are literally showing you aren't caught up to this game

[Iconeum]

iconeum is confirmed town

why

[Iconeum]

VOTE: andres

making that kinda list and saying with confidence that you hit 2 scum when you only recently just said you haven't read past page 10 is absolute bullshit

This btw is just... oy.

Have I said that I have maximum confidence I’m hitting 2 Scum in that grouping? Is that what I said? It’s almost like Ico is just intent on misrepresenting a lot today.

let's dance bro

you are the one doing the misrepping here

[Iconeum]

hey mom we haven't really talked yet i think

what's up

Nothing much.

Cleaning, feeding baby, enjoyed a nice veggie meal with tofu. Dropping food and life tells like the scumbutt I am wbu

[Iconeum]

ngl, i think it's scummy to have a veggie meal AND BE HONEST ABOUT IT

[Iconeum]

why is a bad logic push scum!indicative?
i have not yet scumread datisi this game, so please dont misrep me - and don't give me that crap about datisi not being hard to read

you go read our last -6- games or something and make your conclusion from that instead of such a cheap jab

wait you think i'm pushing datisi? and 'pushing misinformation'? You are literally showing you aren't caught up to this game

You’re right about one thing. Bad logic can absolutely come from Town. That’s not necessarily AI. Insisting that your bad logic is actually useful and not reconsidering - that’s more what I think is AI and comes from Scum. After your back and forth, you say something about how you maybe shouldn’t be pushing your POV so hard, but that it’s a draw. A draw? I read it, and I actually thought you were just wrong, and Datisi was right. Regardless of alignment. It seemed to me like you wanted to hold on to bad logic and a bad read.

WTF?

I DID reconsider
that is literally what happened - the draw part was with datisi, not Rathe
If I wanted to hold on to bad logic and hold on to my 'bad read', I wouldn't be reconsidering now would I?????

This is scum, folks

[Iconeum]

Like, after my fight with Rathe I reconsidered and came to a town!Rathe conclusion

After my fight with datisi I came to both datisi AND rathe!town reads

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT ME NOT RECONSIDERING ANYTHINGGGGGGG

[Iconeum]

ok i'm triggered

andres is scum shitpushing me

going to grab a coffee and calm down first lol

[Iconeum]

ok fine

i'm arguing my pov a bit too strong here, but you are overly defending someting that shouldn't be defended quite that hard

i'll take a draw here

oh and dats

when are you gonna vote rathe

This doesn’t strike me as reconsidering up to that point now does it?

ARE YOU ACTUALLY READING THE GAME???

offering the draw with datisi is literally me reconsidering and not continuing

the second post is literally a meme which you'd know if you were actually reading

[Iconeum]

ok i'm triggered

andres is scum shitpushing me

going to grab a coffee and calm down first lol

Btw - you’re way too easily triggered if that little questioning did this. It wasn’t even particularly aggressive. I know you’ve seen me be far more pushy than this.

i get triggered easily if you're gonna spew absolute lies about me

i'm not saying you are agressive - i'm just saying you are lying about stuff i did

[Iconeum]

>one of the quieter slots
>has the third highest post count

Also is this active lurking or what?

im just not getting involved in this 4 way shitfest

i've had my share of shitfests and this ain't one, chief

[Iconeum]

If i hit 200 posts before anyone hits 100, i win the game yeah

[Iconeum]

i'm not opposed to yeeting outworld, but it's not a particularly spicey scumread either

if your read truly boils down to 'yeah but look this slot hasn't done anything townie yet' then… yeah
i really don't understand that you'd be happy with that?

mom and infinity townreads are ok? i guess? sam for sure
anya… why? If you think outworld is scum, then surely you are scumreading anya as well? for the same reason?

[Iconeum]

I'm curious to hear what Momrangel thinks about andres

[Iconeum]

and also

[Iconeum]

pagetop

[Iconeum]

is anyone going to help me pressure andres?

otherwise i'm probably switching to umlaut here

we need some consolidation rn

[Iconeum]

actually let's do it this way

@andres

you said you'd blow up umlaut as well, right?

VOTE: umlaut

let's go then

[Iconeum]

so luca

when are you gonna vote umlaut

[Iconeum]

ok i just did that

[Iconeum]

Samantha when are you voting umlaut

[Iconeum]

i heavily suggest Smuggler's Port

[Iconeum]

Dear Anagram of Santa, expect a gif whenever you click a spoiler by me for the rest of the game, I'm not gonna hide votes in them or anything

this tbh

[Iconeum]

I'm really disengaged from this game and finding it hard to pay attention :/

i need an answer to this

it might be important

[Iconeum]

Good question, it's been a busy week and a busier weekend so that's probably part of it but hard to say if it's all of it.

dissapointing answer

[Iconeum]

i would have accepted a different reason, as i've seen in the past that town!umlaut can get disconnected from a game when under pressure

IRL business ain't it

[Iconeum]

at this point it all comes down to vote consolidation tho

[Iconeum]

luca do you townread me?

[Iconeum]

Spoiler: luca analysis *big post ahead*

llama, for someone so determined to get us moving out of rvs and into The Serious Game... you've expressed one (1) read so far.

I really hate this post

i really like this post

How did you go from this to hard TR-ing Datisi?

In isolation, this isn't that bad. Only there are multiple of these posts where he questions townreads on datisi from very early on

basically I see a whole TvTvT shitfight on the last few pages with the exception of Rathe who I don't like.

Can you elaborate as to what leads you to conclude that there was a bunch of Town fighting other Town? Which players specifically are you talking about?

I’m guessing Llama and Datisi are two of them, yeah? Who is the third?

Llama, Datisi, and Infinity. Llama and Datisi interacting in ways that I don't see scum doing, and from what I remember of Student Council Infinity is playing to his town meta here and I just think in general that scum aren't likely to take these fights this early in the game.

I don’t really like this take

I think Llama’s early stance is slightly Town-indicative, but why do you think Datisi wouldn’t play the way he has as scum? I’d like a little more elaboration on that part

In general you’re talking about three of the most experienced players in this game so I’m not sure why you don’t think they’d take a fight early in the game? It wasn’t really much of a fight either imo

more shade on datisi: 'why can't this be scum!tisi?'
luca is putting in effort to make sure datisi isn't easily townread here

I would need to read Student Council again but I think this kind of buddying (perhaps the wrong word but the stuff in 138, 154, and 158) is normal for Infinity? I don't see a reason to be suspicious of it regardless.

The Llama/Datisi thing reads as TvT to me. I don't think either party puts themselves out there like this as scum. I don't see a lot of reason for scum to want to end RVS early and Rathe trying to push Llama for that does not exactly give me good feelings about that slot.

VOTE: Rathe

I really dislike this post

The first paragraph is just filler, like he’s trying to look as though he’s really considering things but it’s pretty meaningless

Second paragraph: Why does Datisi get a pass based on this reasoning but not Rathe? By the looks of it Rathe is a relative newbie, so if picking fights then early doors in town-indicative (as Outworld seems to think) then why are you SR’ing him for it?

More of the same: effort to deny any towncredit going to datisi early on. Luca also mentions somewhere that datisi is EASILY capable of obvtowning. People are townreading datisi. And then he tries to sabotage it? I don't get it.

@Datisi

: I’m leaning

slightly

scum on you right now. You just seem a little off so far, but I’m not too worried as I know if you’re Town you’ll show it clearly enough before this day is through

Leaning slightly Town on Llama

I’ve got mixed feeling on just about everyone else

a slight scumread on datisi but not wanting to commit to it
people are 'easily' townreading datisi already at this point, and luca is fighting against that, so the 'you will clearly show if you are town soon enough' just reads faked here

I’m still not sure on Datisi but I liked his posts during the argument with Icon

if you are liking datisi's interaction with me
and people are townreading datisi
why are you scumreading him, even if it's just slightly?

i think zoomer is showing vaguely townie reasonings, and i do like that he's had the readslist out decently fast, but his read on umlaut feels... meh. maybe bc i disagree with it but it feels too easy. like scumlaut knows how to make rational points? those posts really aren't that confrontational? time will tell i guess.

I'm getting scum vibes from this

and with the previous context, this just feels like you *wanna* scumread datisi

Icon, do you feel like Datisi is reading you as Town a little too easily here?

From my previous game with you two this normally never happens, but idk about more recently

and this is the major ping in the pond
it pinged me when it happened, it's worse now
really reads like luca is trying to cram a wedge in what is only a developping early Mutual townread between datisi and myself
and more of the same: trying to stop people from townreading datisi

i think zoomer is showing vaguely townie reasonings, and i do like that he's had the readslist out decently fast, but his read on umlaut feels... meh. maybe bc i disagree with it but it feels too easy. like scumlaut knows how to make rational points? those posts really aren't that confrontational? time will tell i guess.

I'm getting scum vibes from this

Why exactly?

Difficult to explain, but it's like Datisi is trying to cast a shadow on Eso because he disagrees with his point on Umlaut, which doesn't really make eso more likely to be scum

or is reluctant for eso to be townread following his readslist so wants to undermine it in a subtle way

Icon, do you feel like Datisi is reading you as Town a little too easily here?

From my previous game with you two this normally never happens, but idk about more recently

whyyyyy does this smell like "oh shit datisi might push me and i'll have to fight it, but ik if he starts obvtowning i'm fucking dead, ay yo ico datisi is kinda scummy right riiiight???"

i'm definitely getting the feeling that luca isn't very comfortable with the current gamestate between us here

Well, you're right in a sense as I don't TR Datisi at all yet

And I normally TR Datisi really easily

datisi do you agree that town!luca would be pushing you right now for said reasons?

i don't think this makes luca scum

i agree town!luca could be *pushing* me for reasons provided

his play around me right now feels like pussyfooting more than anything

I'm not even caught up yet

I don't hard SR you, I just don't TR you?

You're pussyfooting around me as well, then?

Well yeah, I wouldn't be stupid enough to do that two games in a row with you present

If I were scum I'd be trying to buddy Datisi (like I did very successfully last game)

fucking lol

You just cut out the context

You are suspecting me for acting the same as the last game for something that fits your narrative (voting a partner) but ignoring the parts that don't fit (my approach towards you)

loooool did you just claim scum with outworld? i'm gonna assume not but lmfao this post might be hilarious in postgame

no. i'm not "suspecting" you for "voting a partner". i'm suspecting you for being flatter than a pancake. all i'm saying if outworld flipped scum, i would *heavily* look in your direction because that read was sliiiightly too early and sliiiightly too on-point and bc i know you have a habit of distancing. obviously you're not gonna play the exact same from game to game. and with me *not* being widely townread, why would you even have to buddy me? like

No? I just said that's the narrative you're spinning, not that it's reality

You weren't widely tr last game but I buddied you. I've been 'flat' because I've been busy/V/LA/demotivated. I just don't feel like you're pushing me in good faith and this doesn't feel like town!Datisi to me so far. I get if you're town I probably don't seem like town!Luca yet either but I don't think you'd be pushing me like this if you were town

I have to go out now so I'll continue my catch-up later

Momrangal, Infinity, eso, Icon, Samantha and maybe Anya as well are town-leans

My biggest suspicions are Outworld and Datisi

I need to review a lot of stuff but I'm not really in the right headspace for it today

Luca is voting him because his reads are "fake" (which I obviously disagree with) and not expanding on what reads are fake/why they think so.

I've expanded on this at least twice now, so you're clearly not paying attention

The TvTvT thing seemed fake to me, as well as TR'ing Datisi for the same thing he SR Rathe for - it seemed to me like he's trying to buddy the potential power players while taking advantage of the lhf.

I think Datisi/Outworld could be S/S as well

For the third time, it makes no sense to SR someone for doing something and TR someone else for the exact same thing. I questioned him about this but he has avoided explaining this further. It leads me to believe he is faking the read, and it's a very convenient read indeed. TvT in general is such an easy thing to scum to just throw out there to look as though they've done some analysis. It doesn't ring true in this instance

Maybe this is where the split comes... do you think his TvTvT read is correct?

Well, no I don't. I SR Datisi and I'm not sure about you, but more importantly I don't agree with or like how he came to that conclusion.

He corrected the Rathe thing when it was convenient to do so - when Rathe!scum was no longer a popular read. He gets no townie points for this

Timeline weakens this point. OW was inactive for pretty much an entire day and then came back and corrected. After you vote him his next post is backing off.

Right, so why is that Townie? He's just continuing to tread the path of least resistance

He's not writing them off so fast? Do you think he's locktowning them for the rest of the game or something?

Literally the easiest thing for scum to do is hand out townreads. It makes friends instead of enemies, makes them look as though they are solving and allows them to follow the lead rather than need to push the initiative themselves. I'm not saying Town don't TR players a lot as well, but this isn't a reason to TR someone in of itself. I already gave you the example of scum!A50 who refused to SR anyone. Nothing Outworld has done so far has truck me as Townie or natural in any way.

One example of a different player who did something once doesnt really help. Granted it depends from player to player (its probably null at best for me) but typically I like it when players lock down town reads, especially if I can follow the logic that gets them there. OW basically can vote Samantha, or try and push a brand new wagon. Not sure many scum lock themselves into that few options day one. Turning around on anyone else probably raises suspicion to varying extents.

Again, I don't think he's locked himself into anything. He's playing it safe and tried to cultivate friendly relations with some of the more experienced players. He's tread lightly and avoided conflict. I don't see why any of this behavior makes him Town.

He can obviously turn around his reads as things develop. Probably not today, but from day 2 onwards post-flip why not?

[Iconeum]

well that's a fail and a half

i wasn't quite ready yet :s

[Iconeum]

TL;DR: luca keeps building up towards a scumread of datisi, without actually pushing there
even right now, he's actually scumreading datisi but not committing to it and settling for what i consider the 'easier' target between datisi and outworld

[Iconeum]

am i just paranoid or does anyone else see what i'm seeing here upon ISO'ing luca?

[Iconeum]

uuuuugh

i was in the middle of writing a ~catching up~ post, and one of the lines on it was going to be something like "ok tbh i don't really feel scum!luca anymore as strongly as i did, idk he feels more normal now"

and you just had to go make that case

i've never had an easy time reading luca, i think

what do you make of it?

[Iconeum]

Icon, I’m about to go to work so I can’t respond in depth right now, but the part where you go ‘People are tr’ing Datisi and Luca is trying to sabotage it. I don’t get it’

You were literally saying the same as me at that time, how can you not get it?

And I’m still very much open to Datisi being Town and am sure I’ll see it eventually if he is, so it’s not something I want to push too much today

i know i did *a little* of the same early day 1, but that came from a place where i just very recently got flambergusted *AGAIN* by scum!tisi which instigated the paranoia

i also literally promised myself after last game that i wouldn't give him an easy townread again

and here we are lol

[Iconeum]

the main issue i have with luca is that when reading his iso, from the very first few posts, up until the actual scumread on datisi, it can read like it was being set up

but sometimes my brain lets me see things that are just weird and this could be one of those

but but also like

if you say that datisi will obvtown and you don't wanna push there
i don't really think you should be giving him that scumread? you can't have both ya feel

[Iconeum]

outworld feels like such a boring flip tbh

i'd rather just yeet up umlaut here
or switch to luca
or switch to llama

i think that's about it?

[Iconeum]

oooo or andres maybe too

[Iconeum]

p-

pagetop?

[Iconeum]

why are you opposed to yeeting outworld?

if push comes to shove i won't hold against it, but it feels like it's way too easy going after LHF at this point
flipping a non-presence is meh

[Iconeum]

i don't like how he interacted with me

[Iconeum]

Outworld isn’t really lhf though

look at this post count and content and tell me how he is *not* LHF