Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[camn]

## Vote Jdodge

For abandoning us in that newbie game.

[camn]

I'd like to stick with the theme. With Innocent Mafia and Scummy townies.

Die, Townie Scum.

I like the sound of that!

[camn]

Of course.

It is obvious that we mafia were innocently going about our business before the dirty scum Townies came in to take over.

[camn]

Yankees suck.

[camn]

It's not respect.

It is just recognizing who has the $$.
The Dough.
The Clams.
The Chips.

You expect them to go because they paid for the ticket.

2008 Payroll??
Yankees $209,081,579
Rays $43,820,598

A-Rod makes more than the Marlins. All of them. Combined.

But you are right, KMD... this is neither the time nor the place. Delete your avatar immediately.

[camn]

It was an OMGUS Yankees attack anyway

So.. JDoge has confirmed.. but still no Post?

Hm. Maybe I got lucky.

[camn]

Meerkats Suck.

[camn]

### Unvote, Vote Charter.

A) Monkeys are depressing.
b) Instant Rishi Bandwagon?

[camn]

I only waited 4 minutes.......

[camn]

You didn't answer my questions camn.

Do you mean "What is wrong with a healthy bandwagon on Rishi early in day one? ". .

The answer is.. Nothing at all. But if you think he is townie scum.. shouldn't you be asking HIM questions? Or is your method of scum-hunting to interrogate anyone who votes for you?

And if you MUST know.. I used the 4 minutes to check and make sure you only had one vote... because I don't really suspect you enough to be the 3rd vote. I'm not as impulsive as I used to be

[camn]

..., asking questions is sort of how the game is played. .

Thanks for that bit of info!! You must really know stuff

Though that really is not an answer to my question.
Which was directed at Charter.
Which he never answered.

And Drake, IN my defense... I believe you misinterpreted the meaning of my 4-minutes reference. You should re-read it for meaning if that is the reason for your vote.

Also.. I don't see anything inconsistent about voting someone for piling on a couple votes.... while taking care NOT to do it myself.

But I don't really think charter is TOWNIE SCUM right now.. so

### Unvote

<---- I appreciate the overkill.

[camn]

Actually I just wanted to vote for Charter.
He killed me last game

But I'm over it now.
Time to GET SERIOUS!

## Vote Jdodge

Seriously, you can't at least check in?

[camn]

Pre-existing bias. It's a reasonable thing..

Oh so correct.

##UNVOTE

Watching for Stormer's response . . . .

[camn]

So Stormer....
For the sake of argument.

Lets assume there IS a cop.... He is out there...

SO you wanted to know "who the cop is"

a) Why did you want to know?

b) what do you think would happen is someone said "Hey, Stormer... I am the cop!"

c) If they DID have an investigation from Night 0... Then What??

PLease tell us these things.

thank you,
c

[camn]

Wow.

He was serious about those "Pound" Signs........

He asked for replacement.

[camn]

Rebel Alliance Sucks.

[camn]

I also think Stormer just made a clueless newbie error.
Though, I am not really convinced he shouldn't hang for it. Like.. is his play going to get better later on?

Also, Nameless is clearly forgetting about the first part of Roman Numeral I of the so-called "social contract".
But the internet is serious business.

@melikefood... Stormer answered my questions in post 125. Were they particularly insightful answers? No. Were they scummy? I think not, but you be the judge.

@KMD.. "HB" is "Happy Birthday." I think Stef is drinking...

[camn]

Fair enough.

[camn]

I've always liked you, Rishi.

## Vote STEF

A) What rishi says makes a lot of sense, about the stormer wagon. Stef is still on said wagon.. yet does not pursue the issue. Why not? Do you still think Stormer is scum, Stef?

B) I hate this argument.

You

know

that SpyreX's original statement was a joke? Why are you so sure exactly? Not saying this is evidence of teaming up but sure seems suspicious to me and yet again throws attention away from himself.

Getting caught up in semantics is the scummiest way to hunt, IMO. You look like you are doing good hunting, with evidence and everything.... but you aren't. Semantics suck.
Also, the tenative nature of this accusation irritates me. Either say it's scummy.. or ask for clarification... or leave it alone. Don't bring it up and say "I'm NOT SAYING this is scummy... but blah blah blah"

c

[camn]

camn

: 1. What about KMD makes you want to vote with him? 2. You're case on Stef seems very weak to me, how sure of it are you?

2. I am One Vote Sure. A Vote #2 at that. It really depends on Stefs's answers...
1. I don't vote to be "with" people. I vote to pressure other people.

@ stef.. the "wrong" of it is this. If you aren't saying it is teaming up.. what are you saying? How is it suspicious? are you, in fact, saying anything?


@Porkens. If I had wanted to lynch Stormer, I would have voted him. my question about if he should still hang was really a question. I wanted to see if anyone would jump on it. . . .but nobody did. This fits in with Rishi's reasoning on the issue kind of nicely. I think he and I think alike.



Gotta run! School calls!

[camn]

your gambit is flawed. Why? Because my vote has nothing to do with yours. I paid no attention to it whatsoever.

Now, I will try and answer your questions... though there are a lot..

Regarding EVERYTHING before my vote for Stef:

I dispute your assertion that early Day One votes are or even SHOULD be based on "who one thinks is scum"
This early, I vote for pressure. For reactions. To see who else will follow. ANd other reasons I am not even thinking of. I vote to start discussion, and to look back on later.
You have admitted that you do some of the same things.

My case on Stef was a gambit that I like to use ....

Yet, you have repeatedly asserted that one should only vote for someone they think is scum.

Vote for who you think is scum.

So you see, the inconsistency is yours. You say you should vote for who you think is scummy, yet you state your vote for Stef is a "gambit".

Your inconsistencies go further.
May I point out these things about your case:

You REALLY don't want to look like scum. You should be putting your thoughts out without caring how you are perceived.

One question for you:
Why do you take so much consideration into how you will be perceived?

Which Is it?

Also...

buddying up... [with rishi]

Yet

Also, you really seem to be avoiding looking connected to anyone.

Again.. which is it?


ANyway.. your case is flawed.
Do I think you are scum? No. I think that scum wouldn't build a case this large this early in the game.. .unless they were bussing.
But, I hope you are as logical as you seem, and can admit the flaws in your case.

[camn]

EBWOP.

Regarding thi line:

You REALLY don't want to look like scum. You should be putting your thoughts out without caring how you are perceived.

I read this wrong. My apologies. I retract that point. They others stand, however.

[camn]

I can attempt to clear up My vote for Charter.

I felt like voting him for piling on.
HOWEVER.. I don't know how much of me wanted to vote for him just for that, and how much was because I think he is GENERALLY scummy, and how much was for killing me last game.
So, in the interest of being conservative... I checked how many votes he had on him.

Was it because I care what everyone thinks? No. It was because I was questioning my OWN motivations.

Buddying up? I like where Rishi's head is at. I don't see that as bad. I am not really clear on what "trying hard to avoid being connected to anyone in a scum to scum way" even means.

Everything is a Joke? You will find that that won't change I think this whole thing is a Game. Thus Fun. Not serious.

Regarding Perception? I don't really think I care too much.. but I will admit, Getting Lynched is not at the TOP of my priority list.


Regarding KMDs "gambit"...

KMD ... are you clearing Stef?
Was everything you threw at him Garbage?
Should I even bother reading it? Because, to be honest, I never really read your long, elaborate posts about him. I've been kind of in a hurry this week.
So, should I bother?, or was it all nonsense?

c

[camn]

Because, to be honest, I never really read your long, elaborate posts about him.

This is bad. Just saying.

I tend to disagree.
I have a big test this week, so I have two choices.

a) Play fast. That is skim, post, skip some stuff.. and catch up on the weekend.

OR...

b) Don't post at all until the weekend.

I choose choice A. I EVENTUALLY read everything.. but I am very 4-dimensional about it.
I think it is better to stay in the game in a superficial way, then to put it all off for a week, don't you?

That said... regarding Stormer.
Don't get me wrong.... I come from the all-lurkers-must-die school of mafia. But it is impossible to really pin him as scum unless he will get in here and do some posting.

Regarding Stef.... I still want to question you about some things.. but I think it can wait, until this whole melikefood thing is addressed.

## Unvote: Stef

@Melikefood.. WTF is going on? Make more sense, please.

[camn]

(aka. wishy washy on his stances. hello camn).

I know! I'm watching....

But back to MeLikeFood.
You still aren't making sense. It isn't your CLAIM that is insane.. it's the FACT you are claiming. It's your actual PLAY that makes no sense.. not even for scum.

How did this work in your head? What was the point of your claim? Please... enlighten me.

[camn]

So you were trying to get lynched by claiming?

[camn]

I think your Gambit would be more applicable if I had actually cited your "case".

Because wouldn't the scum-tell be jumping on a crap case?
Whereas dropping a day 1 vote on someone because you don't like something they say... that, I think, is typical. Not particularly scummy.

However, building a crap case is also rather scummy...
In fact, a great scum gambit would be to build a crap case... and then burn down any rookies who actually buy it, citing the KMD gambit. Then, even when they flip town, you can cite them "falling for the gambit" as justification for their lynch.
Additionally, if scum got busted on thier crap case, they could then cite the "KMD Gambit" as their defense!

Brilliant!

[camn]

I would guess that you didn't mean to say that. You probably meant to say that after a lynch, you'd pop up Mafia, not town. The fact that you don't have the terminology straight shows how little you care for this game.

We are out of the joke phase and you know what he meant...
There is no way he just claimed minority and you know it.
Please stop trying to confuse the....majority....

That's actually not what I meant. I know he claimed majority and I think everyone realizes that. What I meant was that the fact that he doesn't know the terminology in this game shows his complete apathy. My point is that he isn't even making an effort, which is anti-town behavior.

@ Rishi.... this IS pretty weak. Charter has used classic terminology as well, but he is obviously into the game.
In fact, saying that it is "anti-

town

" could be considered apathetic.

Attacking little details is no fun.

[camn]

Regarding 245.....

I really wasn't attacking your gambit as a defense. I was just looking at it in general. I think it can be a great tool for scum. Not that I think YOU are scum..I was just saying.

Regarding your case... I was thinking how brilliant it is to cite "trying not to look scummy" and "worried about perception" as faults. Any defense one would care to muster would simply back up the case. How can I convince you I am NOT scum, without trying too hard to look like I'm Not Scum?!

Again, this is simply acedemic. I am happy to answer questions, but at this point I don't think your accusations need much of a response. You think I'm Scummy. I don't really mind. Maybe it will help me avoid getting night-killed

[camn]

And you don't think I'm scum? Aren't you

voting

me?

um.... I don't think I am. YOU are voting ME.

[camn]

I don't have the power to change people's minds.
I have 2 schools so I am not always here.

### Vote Stormer.

For Pressure.

Look, dude. If this game is too much for you, and you are INNOCENT.. just replace out. Do us a favor. If you keep playing like you are, you are going to get lynched.
If you want to avoid this, your behavior needs to change.
Of course, if you are scum, and you just can't figure out how to recover from your play earlier... then keep up the good work.

@ charter... why is it "amazing" that you agree with 279? Drakes points about Stormer are pretty reasonable. Is it his comments about you that you "amazingly" agree with?

[camn]

I have time! Just not time to WASTE! And this group sure can post! This is going to be, like, a 50-page mini.

And to be honest.. I don't even remember where it comes from! I saw it once and loved it.
nihongo o shabereru, anata mo? kono tokoro ni, nihongo ga daijobu?

Eigo wo hanasatte kudasai.

[camn]

I do think it's the right thing.

There have been a couple replacements, neither of them are Stormer. I have certainly seen people perk up when they are looking a lynch in the eye... and, I would rather see Stormer hang than MeLikeFood at this point. The deadline isn't getting any closer, so I would like to see if this

charter is a bandwagon hunter.

is REALLY all Stormer has to offer.

In other words, if we HAVE to settle for a deadline lynch.. which I suspect we might, I would rather see it be Stormer. I don't know who the scum are right now.. but I know who isn't really adding much to the game. And in my mind, he is about as likely to be rookie scum as he is to be rookie innocent.

[camn]

Camn, nothing personal. I'm enjoying having you in this game, but I think you are scum.

Of course I don't take it personal!

You can't help it that your scum-dar is incredibly flawed.
You are still the

ONLY

vote on me, right?

And thank you for clarifying the word "pressure"... but

I

disagree. I think pressure is only really effective if there is the threat of a lynch behind it. Thus either a pressure vote OR a you-are-scum vote can lead to a lynch.

In this case, the pressure is to force Stormer to play better.

Your other questions were answered in my previous post, imo...
For the record... are you DEFENDING Stormer? Do you think he is NOT scum?

[camn]

You can't help it that your scum-dar is incredibly flawed.
You are still the

ONLY

vote on me, right?

Bad argument. Just because people aren't voting you doesn't mean they're not suspicious of you (or that they aren't wrong).

But Kmd insisting I am scum is proof, to me at least, that he is not a perfect scum detector. I only point out the one vote to reinforce that my scumminess is not SELF-EVIDENT.

But your only reasoning for the vote was "pressure".
Are you really willing to lynch for pressure?

Ane YES!
If you aren't, then your pressure isn't worth anything.

[camn]

>camn slaps porkens<

Now, KMD.. the HAMMER cannot be done for pressure alone!

[camn]

I know! But that was too fast. I wanted as much as possible out of it, you know?

And GOD you are selective with your quotes!
I said..

In other words, if we HAVE to settle for a deadline lynch.. which I suspect we might, I would rather see it be Stormer.

You are like Fox News over there ..

[camn]

I'm not trying to worm out of anything. I wanted to lynch him.

I just wanted him to see it coming.
I wanted

everyone

to see it coming... so they would all have a chance to make a mistake.

But SOMEBODY had to force the issue.

But it's ok... I'm over it. Time to look at Drake's interactions with everyone.. or lack thereof.

[camn]

God there is so much going on here!

First off... Voting for Stormer was not scummy. Voting Stormer for pressure was not scummy. Being willing to lynch Stormer was not scummy. Just as a reminder.....

At deadline, if we are looking at stormer vs. no lynch, I will switch to stormer.

Hammering Stormer so early was, IMO, a little hasty.. but it is a non-issue at this point.

Second... Why is melikefood alive? Food.. If you ARE a roleblocker.. and the mafia DOES have a choice in who executes kills at night.... telling them who you are going to block defeats the whole purpose. Don't do it any more. Don't even drop hints.

Third...

Please don't make the mistake of determining her alignment with mine.

I was totally about to say the same thing!
Look.... I am innocent.. and I suspect KMD is too, just because of the bulldog grip he has on my sweet ass. That would be too scummy for scum to actually do.. But if he flips scum, I won't stand in the way of the pointed stick.

Fourth..
shoot.. I gotta go.


l8tr sk8trs.

[camn]

What is so "interesting" Stef?

I have never accused Kmd of being scum.
And I am not defending him.
If you look back, you will see there is no change in my stance toward him. No "Suddenly" about it.

Keep trying, though.. you are bound to stumble on to something you can hang an innocent with.

[camn]

Keep trying, though.. you are bound to stumble on to something you can hang an innocent with.

That is neither a softclaim nor a vote / serious attack.

Couldn't agree more.

Regarding Food.. maybe you guys are more subtle than me... But if I were scum, I would have killed him. Not to speculate on setup.. but I could see a roleblocker being the most powerful role on the innocent side.

BUT... WIFOM dictates that we can't lynch him for it, so I guess it is also a "non-issue"

@kmd... Porkens is a non issue because he was asked and answered. It is not unheard of to hammer scum.. and the setup of this game requires a hammer to lynch, am I right?

Anyway...

##Vote Malyss

a) Lurking
b) Comments the

least

on Drake in her player-roundup.
c) For calling me Vindictive

[camn]

##Unvote Malyss.

... That explains why Malyss hasn't been posting.

I need to update my notes!

[camn]

kdm..

If you were against a Stormer lynch.... why did you say you were willing to hammer him?

Would you have hammered if you still "didn't see the case" at dealine?

c

[camn]

EBWOP..

I see that you WOULD have hammered, despite being unsure.

So why? for information? Do you hate no-lynch days? Why would you hammer someone you thought was innocent?

c

[camn]

@ nameless

Nothing. He was perfectly unscummy. A great choice for a nightkill.
The only thing it tells me is that we have someone with some experience on the scumteam.

OR.. we have food, KMD and Charter, and they let Food decide on who to kill. But I doubt that pretty highly, and WIFOM destroys the logic of it.

BTW, thanks for answering for KMD. Now I totally know his opinion on things

c

ps.. anybody else running into "This Account Has Exceeded Its CPU Quota "?? I told you guys not to post so much!

[camn]

Fair enough, KMD.. I tend to agree.

c

[camn]

If I was going to scum-flirt.. it would be with Rishi

[camn]

Alright. You guys are so busy fighting over me... regarding old shiv, I thought I would give you some more ammo.

my thoughts:

Re the Porkens vs. KMD issue. . . I think this is a innocent vs. innocent battle. As I have said, KMD wouldn't be so fixated on a mislynch if he were scum. And I doubt Porkens would have hammered someone who was OBVOIUSLY going down as scum. so there.

Regarding Stef. You did totally overreact to nameless' post. Whats the deal with that? I agree that your stance is NOT hypocritical.. and nameless'es accusation was a little unjustified.. but your reaction was a little too heated, imo. You call it a "personal attack", but I don't see it. How was it "personal"?

@ Food. Will you start playing better for me? Post more, engage in conversation.. stuff like that? k?

Nameless you rock, keep it up. Spyrex and Rishi, too.

Zazie.. I love how you are defending me... but I am starting to get a scum vibe off of you. I got a pretty scummy vibe of Malyss, too. You have had some decent analysis.. but not very offensive. Plus your defense of me, to borrow a page from KMD, could be seen as you "buddying up" to me. This makes me very sad, because I like you and I don't want you to be scum...

Regarding Charter. YOu are so incredibly off base, I can hardly handle it. I am leaning toward you being scum. Mostly because you somehow aren't as abrasive as you usually are! Plus your analysis seems somehow cock-eyed. I think you are mischaracterizing Porkens. He wasn't Rolefishing. Also, if nameless is scum, he s the most helpful scum I have ever seen. You also agree with KMD saying "if you say you are ok with a lynch, be ok with it after it happens"... but HE was willing to hammer.. and went after Porkens afterward, as well! I figure you would attack him on the basis of inconsistency, if anything.....but maybe I'm biased because you are talking about me

anyway.................. ..... (that's for you, ellipses haters)

c

[camn]

I like this game

First off...

Don't make the mistake of thinking that "helpful" players are always town.

I know, dude. But it certainly isn't scummy, right?
And yes, We DO agree the hammer was too fast. I don't think it was scummy though.



Second...

I bet you dont think I rock anymore.

Actually, I totally do. Your "case" on me was fair and balanced, I think. KMD seems to characterize it as a knockout punch.. but I like it. You are observant and precise. Thats what I like about you. You mention things that make me look good as well as stuff that makes me look bad. KMD doesn't do that, because he works for Fox News.

Now.. for response.
1.) Voting for Pressure.
I consider "early" all of day one.. and most of day 2 and 3. Pretty much any time before I really know who scum are... and when the game isn't totally in the balance.

2.) The "Gambit"
That was an acedemic comment on the poor efficacy of the "Gambit" as a practical tool. I think it is poorly designed, and can be used equally well by scum and town. That is all. I really don't think KMD is scum.. and I think he will feel bad if he ends up lynching me.

3.) The Stormer Lynch
I don't see my post #33 as calling Stormer scum. I was for his lynch for the same reasons as you... he sucked. I never was CONVINCED he was scum.. but I had no better ideas. And I was not calling him scum in 33.

4.) Random Oddities
No... KMD being the only one means I am not

Obv

Scum.. . like he was implying.
If it looks like I am going to earn a lynch.. then I won't get nightkilled. I think that is pretty well-recognised scum-meta.
I DO think KMD is innocent.. but I could be wrong. I won't defend him.
I Heart Rishi.
You think a rookie scumteam could have picked Drake out for a kill? He was a great choice, imo.

5.) Scumhunting
I know. I am terrible the first couple days.
Plus.. I have a subtle style. I ask a web of questions.. and see who I can trap. I am not aggressive like some of you guys. Also, TBH, I am having a little bit of a hard time keeping up with the pace of this game. ALSO.. it is hard to hunt when you are getting hounded by KMD all day


And you are right.. that WOULD be the greatest 3-way bus ever. I almost wish it were true!

[camn]

Yes, he is. Oh dear god, yes he is.

QFAT!

[camn]

@nameless... bite me If you don't like it, then lynch me.

@ KMD..

Ok, the hammer was fast. You don't think it was scummy. Answer this: Was it pro-town? Do you agree that people being lynched should get a chance to claim? Do you think my question should have been answered before the hammer was dropped?

No, yes, and YES! But just because I disagree with someone doesn't mean they are scum

He is "observant and PRECISE." To be "precise", don't you have to be......what's the word.....right? Wouldn't that make you scum?

No, Not at all. Please look up the difference between precision and accuracy

Where does his case make you look good? (It's probably there and I don't remember seeing it, so point it out please.)

See, that is so like you. You WOULD overlook anything that doesn't fit in with your world view.
#20 (b), #28(b),#31(a),Conclusion #4, Part (d).

Just because you have to defend yourself, that doesn't mean you can't scumhunt too. You can do both.

Its a time thing, not a willingness thing. Maybe YOU can... but i am beginning to suspect that you type faster than me....

[camn]

In the scientific sense, sir.. not the colloquial!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy

c

[camn]

Your sig really says it all, though....

What good is "scumhunting" if you end up lynching innocents?

[camn]

PS.. Regarding my #33

If I thought he was scum, I would have said it. The assumption was yours, and it was incorrect.

[camn]

Your sig really says it all, though....

What good is "scumhunting" if you end up lynching innocents?

You missed the point. Even if I'm wrong - you definitely weren't innocent. I err on the side of lynching with cases like that - especially if its not lylo.

YOU miss MY point.

I am saying sure.. I could get all agro and build crap cases against people.. maybe get somebody lynched.. but what good is it if it is a mis-lynch?

I'd rather take my time, ask questions, and figure out whats going on.

Do I think everyone should do this? no. But I am definitely against the meta that hunting=town, nothunting=scum.

And KMD.. I don't think your obsession with me really counts as "hunting"


c

[camn]

Spyrex, I like you... but you read way too much into everything I write.

If I thought YOU were agro, I would tell you that. I like how you are playing. I say keep it up.
I only mentioned that because one of the "points" against me is "lack of scumhunting".
I understand it is the ethos on this site.. but I don't totally agree that EVERYONE should AGGRESSIVELY hunt people from the get go. Thus I don't agree with it being a point against me.
I also disagree that it is

always

pro-town....

Regarding my stupid post #33.. I meant it how I said I meant it. Taking it any other way is just being hardheaded. I had no outrage... I was hoping that KMD would actually take a stand against the lynch. Then we could look at that stand when we found out if Stormer was scum or not.

Sadly, KMD got away with being both for- and against- the Stormer Lynch.

Now nameless.
What is stupid about those statements? Please enlighten us plebes.
And really.. if you are so smart, you should be able to figure out a way to get your point across without being insulting. It is not a terribly hard thing to do.

[camn]

Ps.. Spyrex.. you quoted me asking someone a question, and said you haven't seen me asking any all in one post

Not that I am saying I am on the offense right now. I'm not. I am WAYY too busy thinking about poor Derek Jeter, spending October at home for the first time, watching a tiny, small-market team with a salary cap 1/5th the size of his representing the AL East.

Plus taking crap from you and KMD.

[camn]

Yes, I guess. But you shouldn't get TOO hung up!

And are you saying I am "lurking"? Because I certainly agree that lurking is scummy.

c

[camn]

Spyrex,... I like how you are playing. I say keep it up.

And whoa... Hi, MLF.

I blocked you so we wouldn't get anymore surprises from you for the day.

What kind of surprise do you mean?
Did you then and do you now think Porkens is scum?
Do you think Porkens has a scum-aligned power role, or did you want to stop a NK?

[camn]

Aww.. you said something nice about me!

If everyone thought this way, the scum would win every time.

I agree. I think if EVERYONE had exactly the same style, whatever it may be, then the scum would win every time. So I play my way.. you play yours. It takes all kinds to run a world this crazy...

Do you think Food will answer my questions?

[camn]

I blocked you so we wouldn't get anymore surprises from you for the day.

What kind of surprise do you mean?
Did you then and do you now think Porkens is scum?
Do you think Porkens has a scum-aligned power role, or did you want to stop a NK?

[camn]

Alright.. those answers almost make sense in Enlish.

why did you tell him you were going to block him?

[camn]

PS... I gotta go out.. so

### Vote : Charter

For Pressure.









Heh. I thought about leaving it at that

But also because his attacks on Porkens are crap-case at best. . . but even though that case sucks, it is still 10 times as complete as his "case" (or lack thereof) on Nameless, where his vote lies.
He has hardly mentioned Nameless today, yet lets the vote ride.

Also, truly, maybe some pressure will get him back in the Game.

And Charter.. before you say it, its not OMGUS. I know I am on your list.. but you are the LEAST of my problems. If I was prone to OMGUS votes, I would be voting KMD right now

[camn]

his "attacks" on Porkens revolve mostly around him role-fishing MLF.. Which I think is obvious never happened.

God typing on a phone is painful.

[camn]

Double backwards trick.

A trick? To get what result?

AKA confusion via WIFOM, I presume.

Why are you busy "presuming" what someone else means about things?
Do you think that that is useful at all to anyone?
It is hard enough to get MLF to answer a straight question....

c

[camn]

Like how? Spell it out for me, if you would.

[camn]

SO your case on Nameless is the fact that, on Day 1, he spread a lot of suspicion around? (though I wish YOU would sum it up...)

And your case on Porkens is.......?

[camn]

You were dead wrong

c

[camn]

Yay!

[camn]

The summary is that he suspects people after they say something questionable without regard of thinking if they said it because they are scum, or they are town and just aren't thinking. As scum, you have to jump on townies when they make mistakes, and I think that that's all he's doing.

Suspicion is the name of the game. I don't see why suspecting people FOR BEING SUSPICIOUS is worse than any other reason.....
And don't regular innocents jump on people for making mistakes? Isn't that what we long for?

Porken's saying that you and kmd are scum putting up a huge facade is the wildest and most untrue thing I've seen said this whole game.

It is untrue, but not that wild. In fact.. I might even try it some time.
However, I don't think it is a scumtell on Porken's part. It CERTAINLY doesn't seem like enough to pull your vote off Nameless. Oh, wait.. I guess it is enough, since your Nameless case was rice-paper thin.
And how would YOU know it's untrue? I know how

I

know.. but how do YOU?

You know I cant answer this right now.

Now you HAVE to. Why can't you answer this right now?

My case on Nameless came from day one. I obviously still think it holds true.

See.. this I just don't believe.
I think that if you actually thought Nameless was scum, you would ride his a$$ at every opportunity. you would twist everything HE says into making him look bad. But no, this game you are almost being....nice! And I don't like it. It is suspicious to me. You are going WAY too easy on him AND porkens to convince me you actually think they are scum, which makes me think you know who the scum actually are... ergo, you are scum.

[camn]

@KMD:

My honest answer would affect the town in a negative way.

Thats more of this awesome soft claiming.

Although I don't really think that this is much of a claim.... this is what Spy was referring to, KMD.

[camn]

I got a question for you, Charter.. now that things are getting serious:

you said:

Porken's saying that you and kmd are scum putting up a huge facade is the wildest and most

untrue

thing I've seen said this whole game....

Also, you said:

Ugh, to elaborate on why I'm

suspicious

of

camn

and Porkens....

And

Also, your 'I'm not twisting what they say to make them look bad so I must be scum' is

scumlogic

My question is this:
Do you think I am scum?
If so.. why is Porkens calling me scum scummy?
Or is it Porkens trying to link me to KMD that is scummy, because you are so confident of KMD's innocence?

[camn]

Wow. I guess that answers my question about how you were so confident on KMD...

###Unvote

I DO buy the mason Claim. For now.
Charter's play has backed it up.... so I don't see why Porkens is still all over them.
You don't want to give them a night and see what happens?

I don't know the count right now.. and It's late... and I clearly nead to re-read in light of this new info.. but for now I am against Either a KMD or Charter Lynch. Which is nice, Because I have always thought KMD was innocent.. and Charter I can live with

[camn]

Great. Am I going to get hella Shrapnel now?

Well, better to kill me than anyone important, I guess........

[camn]

Stef, Rishi, Melikefood, and camn all need to post something in response to what went on this weekend. ...

Porkens.. you never really answered my question from last night.. though KMD answered it for you Thanks for the ignore.

But I have some more.

a) Even if Charter and KMD's claim is a lie (although I think it is true)... they are a bad lynch for today. The mafia should have to deal with it tonight. Either they will kill one, or we will have a ball with the WIFOM tomorrow. So that whole discussion is kind of a waste of time..

b) I know this means I am going to get some default votes now. I simply ask for BRIEF summations of your cases on me along with them. Please!

c) I think Stef and Zazie have been skating along WAY too easily here. IMO, at least one of them is scum. Probably Both.
Also, I think at least one of Nameless and Rishi is scum.

I know we wasted a lot of time with charter.. but we still have a week. I am not particularly convinced Porkens is scum, although I am confused about his reaction to the claims.
I got a long day tomorrow.. but I will try and get my cases together.
Off the cuff, I sense a Stef-Zazie-Rishi lurkerscumteam. If you were scum in the middle of a town this INSANE, wouldn't you just sit back and let it boil over?

I would.

c

[camn]

Well, charter.. I know it is WIFOM of the HIGHEST order...... but the quick hammer, plus his defense of it seems kind of unscummy to me. Like.. you could never do that if you KNEW the guy was innocent, because of the shiv-storm you would have to face in the morning.
But if you thought he was scum...!
Like when I hammered whats-his-name in that other game. You commented on it being quick.. and I EXPECTED to take some heat for it, but I really believed he was scum, so I did it.. But if I had been scum, and KNOWN he was town, I would have had to be more deliberate.

But I will read harder on him. I am not as convinced of his innocence as I am of KMDs.

[camn]

i'm innocent, spy... How can I convince you?
Remember how I started that Charter Wagon? You liked it!

[camn]

I love this game.

It is incredibly frustrating, and impossible to keep up with.. but I love it.
I too am a vanilla mafioso.

### VOTE RISHI

And get this.. if everyone's claim is true.... which I doubt.. then it is....

... a Stef-Zazie-Rishi lurkerscumteam. ...

FTW!

[camn]

Crap.

would the scum be so bold as to let both "Cops" live, forcing the WIFOM battle tomorrow? I don't really think so.

So we lynch one of them... he is, at worst, the Cop.. then we lynch the scum cop tomorrow?
At best, he is scum.. and our real Cop dies tonight.

OR.. Worst case scenario... Porkens is vanilla, fakeclaiming to draw the Scum NightKill.. and accidentally zeroed in on the REAL cop for a lynch???! (I doubt this.. but if it is true, Pork.. real-claim now!)


I still think its Stef-Zazie-Rishi.

But seriously. WTF.

[camn]

If someone CCs cop I have DIBS on getting hung first.

but.. what.... he did call DIBS..!

[camn]

It's Flashback humor.

[camn]

So you are saying if we DON'T lynch a cop.. then our cop lives till tomorrow? But we should do it anyway?

I think we DO lynch a cop. IMO, the scum will kill a confirmed cop at the expense of losing Porkens or Rishi, since we will probably kill one tomorrow anyway. Why risk an investigation? Eventually one of them dies, giving us the ID of the other.. plus any investigation they might do in the mean time. They will cut their losses, IMO.

Why not Rishi? He has the votes already...... but I guess there could be a protective role in here somewhere.. so we SHOULD get it right.

hmm.

[camn]

Jesus. I can't follow this all.

Look.. they both are dead by tomorrow.

## UNVOTE
VOTE PORKENS

He did call Dibs.

[camn]

um...

### Vote Rishi

Any explanations, my friend?

[camn]

Zazie-Stef-Rishi lurkerscumteam.
I live and die by instinct alone.

I think the "masons" would have bussed Rishi if they were scum.. .

c

[camn]

@ Rishi.. you betrayed me. how will I ever trust again?

@ stef. I guess in the "rishi" sense, I don't know when. I don't go through the trouble of stalking someone to see if they are just avoiding US.
But all three of you were perfectly willing to sit in the background during some pretty heated periods of this game.... where everyone was getting TONS of heat from everyone else...
What did you gain by this? We don't have a lot of posts by you to judge your scumminess. Which, IMO, only works in favor of the scum.

Me, scummy as I may LOOK.. at least i've been putting it out there.

Oh.. and Rishi... Who did you "investigate" last night?

[camn]

I'm into a no-lynch.

But I would Love to hear people's suspicions before the night comes.

I'm still thinking Zazie and Stef.... but I need a methodical review.

Oh, and I was thinking about your "gambit", KMD.. in an academic way.

How does it's efficacy rate if Stef actually IS scum??
...The thought made me giggle.

[camn]

My thoughts:


a) No-Lynch is the right play. I don't really see how this could not be true. I don't see how a quicklynch is easier tomorrow, unless we play sloppy.

But.. if it is true, Nameless... why don't you put a vote up?

b) Stef. If you don't see how Lurking hurts the Majority, then we aren't playing the same game. At WORST.. pressuring lurkers encourages them to play better.

c) the real question is this: Are KMD and CHARTER telling the truth.
They are OBVIOUSLY and ADMITTEDLY playing together. Which means they are either BOTH town or mafia, right? (let me know if I am wrong on this)
I think that it is TOO bold of a play for Scum to pull.

SO. If they are both innocent, and I am OBVIOUSLY innocent.. then that leaves Nameless, Zazier and Stef.
I think that Nameless has been playing an aggressive game.. he has been, IMO, FURIOUS at times. I don't think the scum have been furious this game. I think they have been laughing at us. Sitting back and letting us attack each other. His furiousness doesn't fit with scum. But he COULD just be very clever.
I can SEE his suspicion of the 'masons' but I think in this case the Lurking has WORKED. Stef and Zazie have gotten away with posting basically NOTHING about themselves.

And lets look at Zazie's post #8

This brings me to Rishi. I'm not sure what to think yet. First we have a lot of blablabla. Later on come some posts which could be seen as helpful. I'm keeping my eyes on him.

I have never seen a more noncomittal post. Ever. She somehow has a lot to say about ALMOST everyone else.... given, this is day 1.. but there isn't much else from her.

Stef I think is scum by process of elimination, mostly. But his overreation to Nameless was scummy (20). His mischaracterization of me re:kmd was scummy (22), AND internally inconsistent. Let me quote:

What is interesting is the soft-claim and accusing me of "trying to hang innocent". I actually wouldn't have voted for you only based on that. Your blatant OMGUS does make me vote you.
##Vote: Camn

then

I voted for camn based more on a gut feeling regarding his "Keep trying, though.. you are bound to stumble on to something you can hang an innocent with.".
It just felt scummy to me.

Its small.. but in one breath he says it is NOT why he voted me.. in the next he says it IS. A small inconsistency.
THEN.. his most complex posts have been building "logical" reasons on why to Lynch charter or KMD, AFTER they had claimed.
These turned out not to be very logical, but felt like scum trying to destroy a voting bloc.


ps.. all my post #s are from the individual views.. sorted NEWEST first.

[camn]

I agree with no lynch. I don't agree with no discussion.

I wanted to ask, though... Why no discussion?

[camn]

Still don't get it.

Say that Stef, for instance has some keen insight into things.
Then he gets killed.
then I don't get to benefit from his keen insight.

Or say Scum-Stef is ACHING to make some critical mistake. . .
But nobody bothers to Talk about him....
So he doesn't make it.

what about that?

But you know.. if you and KMD are scum, we are hosed, I think. Plus it was brilliant enough that you deserve to win.

SO I guess I am with you.

### Vote NO LYNCH

Porkens isn't here.. so I guess he wont 'hammer'....

Go Rays.

[camn]

Well, nameless... I am open to the idea. First I would have to be convinced that Stef and Zazie AREN"T scum.

Because IMO, they are playing like scum would play... and kmd and Charter are playing like innocents. I know that that is WIFOM.. but

everything is

.

And logic is better than evidence, to me

PLUS.... I think no-lynch is good. You said they would kill someone who "wasn't much a suspect anyway".... LIKE WHO??? You suspect those two, I suspect the OTHER two, KMD suspects ME, snd charter suspects YOU.

that's everyone.

So who is this mystical person above suspicion?
Trust me, Alabaska knows...... if we had a good lynch right now, I would take it. But we don't.

c

[camn]

Zazie-Stef-Rishi lurkerscumteam.
I live and die by instinct alone.

Lets talk about this "Gambit"

Er----
Thank you all for a TOTALLY FUN and interesting game.

@ Nameless.......
You don't need to look less scummy. YOu actually are the perfect amount of scummy.. which is why you lived till the endgame.

You just needed to see though CHARTER'S scumminess!
Because even if everyone thought you were innocent, we would have lost with you voting for him.

meh.

I guess congrads are in order to the scum, though I hate to be in another game where the scum lurk their way to victory. . . .

[camn]

@ KMD.. I get a giggle whenever I think back to day 1.. that Stef actually WAS scum. Its amazing.

And I know I should push more.. but this game had a LOT of pushing, and I didn't have a terrible amount of time.....

I figured that IF I got killed after our nolynch, that would at least throw a LITTLE pressure on the Lurker-Duo!
I can't figure out why you were so hell-bent on Nameless. He wasn't acting that scummy, and even if he WAS scum, there still was his partner out there, needing to be lynched..................

and, Zazie, I DO accept. But why did Stef want to kill me so bed? Because I saw through him day 1?

c

[camn]

Whoa.

</keanu>

[camn]

She was right about all 3 scum AND the masons.

And you tried to lynch me for 20 pages!

And stef you are right.
It all comes down to what Jdodge wrote...... about bad play and scummy play.

Everyone who was posting alot. . they all looked innocent to me. Some of them playing very BAD, but innocent. So you three were scum, in my mind, by process of elimination. No heavy cases... but I was mad about the non-posting, because I felt if you guys would just POST, then you WOULD display your scumminess.

Its hard, but the way I usually play is to assume everyone is scum, then slowly clear people.
Obviously, it doesn't help the town for me to build cases on why people AREN'T scum, but it's how my mind works.
And it has worked a ton of times.
Now I just have to figure out how to get all you maniacs to come around to my side more!