Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[Sarcastro]

I wish Zindy were here.

Vote: Ether

for some reason I can't bother thinking of.

[Sarcastro]

Is that a bandwagon I smell?

Unvote, Vote: MrBuddyLee

Die scum die!

[Sarcastro]

That's exactly what scum would say.

Man, it's only the first page and I've already caught scum. It'd be a new record, except I'm pretty sure I always do this. Goddammit I'm awesome.

[Sarcastro]

I'll format MBL's comment about Sarcastro into a question: what makes a four-person wagon so much more alluring than a three-person wagon?

Well, it's 33% larger, for starters.

Sarc, whether you're scum or town, your performance thus far is less than impressive.

Says the scum who's been caught on the first page.

My vote has a good home right now. I'd like to see a competing bandwagon.

I know how tempting it is to protect your scumbuddy, OGML, but sometimes you're just better off bussing. This is one of those times. Even if it weren't, trying to start a bandwagon on the most obviously pro-town player in the game is not a particularly clever approach.

[Sarcastro]

MBL, can you give me a recent example of a completed game in which you were town? Because right now you're already reminding me quite a bit of your play in Going to San Francisco.

Was that vote on Bluesoul serious? Obviously he said "three" because there are

three players who haven't posted yet

. You know, the three people he mentioned in the sentence

right before

the one you quoted?

[Sarcastro]

Okay, well, I'm tempted to respond for Bluesoul, since the answers seem obvious to me, but I'll let him do it. Needless to say, I still find your reaction to his post rather inexplicable.

I don't know what game you're talking about, MBL. If it was that long ago and I was lynched that early, I don't think it's unreasonable that I've forgotten about it.

Your attitude and responses seem to be similar to those you made when you were under pressure in GtSF. I asked for a town game because I wanted to compare to see if I was just picking up on general playstyle or not.

[Sarcastro]

PJ, please stop trying to blind us with logic.

[Sarcastro]

Sarc, are you

trying

to pretend there's a connection between you and bluesoul?

How on earth did you get a connection to Bluesoul from a post addressing PJ?

[Sarcastro]

You guys talk too much.

I'm not liking how OGML keeps talking about this supposed connection I have with Bluesoul without actually making any statements as to whether or not it seems scummy. Seems like it could be scum trying to pick on something in order to contribute without actually having to, you know, contribute. If you'd like to explain how anything I said was scummy, OGML, go ahead and do so.

DGB, since when am I "astute"? Are you saying you've seen through my shroud of obfuscating stupidity?

Oh, and for the record, I don't have any connection with Bluesoul. All I did was make make one common-sense explanation of Bluesoul's post. I'm not sure I even knew what PJ's post was about when I said he was trying to blind us with logic. It was a joke.

Since Ether asked, my top three suspects are MBL, OGML, and DGB. Acronyms are scummy. Except for PJ, who's obviously town, because even if he's scum, I'm never going to figure it out, so I might as well just skip right to assuming he's town.

[Sarcastro]

I accept this, I read his post to PJ as a joke prior to people pointing it out as "connection fodder".

"Stop blinding us with logic" sounds like "Please stop being so awesome".

Ew, except that wasn't how he worded it. He said "PJ, please stop trying to blind us with logic." which is a little more aggressive. Sarc, if you would, explain why you chose to say that if it was a joke. I guess I'm saying just explain it a little more fully so I see where you're coming from. It was in regards to 58, which sounded like a typical PJ post to me.

It was a joke. I'm really not sure what more I can say. I didn't intend for it to be aggressive, I meant for it to be silly. I frequently don't think too hard about how people will interpret what I'm saying, because I figure it's their own fault if they read too much into it. I don't think I'm going to comment on this anymore, because it is entirely meaningless and it's honestly not even worth the effort to defend it. Go ahead and read whatever you like into it.

I'm skimming over practically everything MBL is saying. Why are people still discussing this? The meaning of Bluesoul's post was fairly obvious, MBL misinterpreted it, and now it's spiralled off into some bizarre discussion about percentages I'm not sure I even want to understand.

[Sarcastro]

I have a pet theory brewing that there's something going on between Sarc, PJ and Ether. To make this post seem more weighty I will now use arbitrary percentages. I am bad at math.

This theory is 70% gut, 20% something that just popped out to me while reading what I'd missed and rereading some earlier material, and 10% just plain awesome.

(The percentage thing is a joke.)

Before I spill the beans, I'm curious if anyone else thinks they saw what I saw in regards to Ether, Sarc and PJ.

Quiet, OGML. We don't want the scum to notice our three-way cop-vig-doc-masonry.

[Sarcastro]

Its p awesome that from everything I just posted, the only response I got out of you was a throwaway comment like that.

My vote has a very good home.

What else would you like me to comment on? Your other two posts were aimed at other people and not really worth commenting on anyway.

[Sarcastro]

Right. MBL and I contrived and planned a random argument about percentages that was eventually refuted by the other party...when? At night? There hasn't been a night.

How do you know whether or not the scum were allowed to talk before the game started?

OGML, please explain what it is that you expected to me to comment on and why not commenting on it makes me scum.

Anyway, DGB is scum.

Unvote, Vote: DrippingGoofball

[Sarcastro]

You massively misrepresented bluesouls post there. MASSIVELY.

I'm not sure where you got the idea I was representing Bluesoul's post at all.

And I'd rather let him decide if I've misrepresented anything, thanks. Vague and unhelpful statements accusing me of things without any explanation are not particularly helpful.

[Sarcastro]

I don't really like the way you took this, that's reaching and you know it; you obviously didn't think enough of it to vote me, because you voted DGB immediately thereafter. So what are you hoping to accomplish? If you really think that I know that scum can/can't talk during pre-game, meaning you think MBL and I are both scum, meaning MBL and I decided to talk about percentages and stuff and irritate the shit out of everyone...vote me. I'm not gonna defend that.

Please don't patronise me or put words in my mouth, Bluesoul. I never said any of that. I asked you a simple question, and you're choosing to read into it a bizarre subtext that is not there.

Because apparently you managed to miss it, here's the question again: "How do you know whether or not the scum were allowed to talk before the game started?". Can you see me say you're scum anywhere in there? No, because I didn't. I didn't vote you, either, which should probably tell you something. Maybe, just maybe, what I'm hoping to accomplish is the acquisition of an

answer to the question I asked

. Funnily enough, that's what people asking questions generally want.

Explain how your noticing this about bluesoul: "How do you know whether or not the scum were allowed to talk before the game started?" doesn't lead to a vote for bluesoul?

I'm just curious with your thought process here.

See above. Why people think I was calling Bluesoul scum is beyond me. Why on earth would asking him a question lead to a vote for him? Don't you think I might want to know the answer to the question first?

Meanwhile, DGB is still obvscum and needs to die.

[Sarcastro]

Sarc: 201 says everything I'm going to say on the subject. Not adding anything further to the discussion.

Why, Bluesoul? All I want to know is what you meant, exactly. You seemed to be stating that you knew the scum hadn't talked in the pre-game. Yes, I fully expect you to explain that this isn't the case, but that doesn't change the fact that I want to hear your explanation.

And by the way, 201 was a stupid, useless post. Even if you took the question as rhetorical, you assumed for no reason at all that it somehow meant I believed that the scum

could

talk in the pre-game

and

that you and MBL had arranged to annoy everyone with your inane discussion, something both you and I know is absolutely preposterous. But you apparently didn't care, and chose to put your idiotic words in my mouth. Well, I don't really appreciate that, and I'd like an actual answer to my question. So stop acting like a dumbass and answer the damn question.

[Sarcastro]

Bluesoul, I can understand how you could have thought the question was rhetorical. But even if it was, all I would have been saying was "you're scum for saying that the scum couldn't talk in the pre-game". I don't see how either of your assumptions leads to you drawing the completely unrelated conclusion that I thought you and MBL had organised some secret plot. In fact, I would think that the

opposite

would have been implied, since if it were a rhetorical question, it probably would have meant that I thought you made a slip by revealing that you knew that you

couldn't

have arranged such a thing with MBL. So no, your explanation doesn't quite cut it, and it still looks to me like you created a strawman simply to ridicule me for a position I clearly never held.

I'm sorry for saying that you're acting like a dumbass, but I tend to get kind of pissed off when people deliberately misrepresent me. It was hardly an ad hominem attack, though, considering it accurately describes your behaviour and was mainly used for emphasis anyway. I don't think anything else I said can be considered an ad hominem attack, either. Your post was stupid, even if you are not, because it was either extremely poorly-reasoned or a deliberate misrepresentation. And the words you tried to put in my mouth were idiotic, as I'm sure you agree, since you seem to have put them into my mouth specifically to dismiss them and ridicule me.

Yeah, I'm satisfied, although I have to wonder why, when you were considering the question of whether or not the scum could have talked in the pre-game, you would not have considered the related question of

whether or not the scum could have talked in the pre-game

.

Luckily for you, I still don't think you look more than a little scummy. DGB is still today's lynch.

[Sarcastro]

@sarcastro: I realize you aren't voting bluesoul at the moment so I feel a bit like I'm wasting effort here ( even more so since I am voting him) but I feel he was more careless in both those endeavors then scummy. In the first one he'd have to be careless, as town or scum so no need to defend that. But the second seems more like a post that had no thought put into it then anything else. If one reasoned threw it they would easily come to your conclusion. It would be wholly stupid to post it as scum, and once again we come to him having been careless be him scum or town.

I know that he was probably just careless, Chamber. I reacted strongly to what he said in his response, but more becuase it annoyed me than because it seemed really scummy. Even knowing that he was probably being careless in the first incident, though, I felt like it was something worth making him explain, at the least, because it's always possible that his reaction could give a hint at his alignment.

I really can't see you having asked that question in a non rhetorical sense. I just can't. Which leads me to believe you intentionally made him look bad. But then I think him scum as well so what does that make you? If when he eventually dies hes town I'm certainly coming back to you because to me it seems like your pushing his wagon while staying off of it yourself, a classic scum ploy. Though then im torn because earlier in the game you did a lot of speaking for him. Its possible you just found the remarks directed at him stupid. Ive defended in such cases before. But as scum why defend them then? The only reason to would be if you're scum with bluesoul. If that were the case I guess this could instead be a distancing tactic. bickering with bluesoul while not putting any weight behind it. Sigh.

I understand why you think it must have been rhetorical, and I realise this is my fault for how I phrased the question. Because I literally asked "How do you know...?", the only literal answers to my question would be "I know for this reason", which is probably not going to happen - the only obvious reason he would know is that he's scum, and he would obviously never actually admit that. So it looks like I'm just saying "You said you know they haven't talked yet, so you must be scum". When I said it, though, I expected an answer of "I didn't actually know that, I just meant/said it because/etc." That is, a question that corrects the implicit assumption in my question. It was sort of a rhetorical question, in that it was stating "You shouldn't know that unless you are scum", but it was also an invitation to explain himself.

[Sarcastro]

@chamber, just dipping into your thought process here, I don't have any problem seeing Sarcscum speaking for bluesoultown early in the game. Not that it sticks out to me as scummy, but it's quite plausible. Scum trying to make friends in the town is very common.

Sarcscum trying to make friends in the town is not common, because Sarcscum never tries to do that. What I did (answering for Bluesoul) is something I would do regardless of my own alignment and regardless of the other person's alignment (if I knew it). It's just something I do. If people have questions and I can answer them, I generally do. If people make mistakes and I can correct them, I generally do. This goes beyond even the usual "I never consciously do anything as scum that I wouldn't do as town" that I always talk about (and nobody ever seems to pick up on). It's not something I even

think

about. It's part of my personality, and not part of my conscious play.

Anyway, I'm sorry to go off on it like that, because I know you weren't even calling it scummy. It just bugs me when people misunderstand my motives. And it might actually help Chamber's speculation that I'm scum and Bluesoul is town, because I can say that if that were the case, I wouldn't even think twice about answering for him (I wouldn't even if he were scum, for that matter).

[Sarcastro]

No.

[Sarcastro]

So, hey. I hear DGB is scum. We should probably lynch her.

[Sarcastro]

Hey, everyone. Sorry for not posting much, I was on vacation and had far worse access than expected. I'm back now and I'll catch up as soon as I can.

[Sarcastro]

Why haven't we killed DGB yet?

[Sarcastro]

MBL, the problem is that I haven't even read the last two weeks or so of the game and I'm feeling too sick of mafia to do so right now, so I'm simply basing my suspicion on the memory that I had a good reason for suspecting DGB. I'm currently contemplating simply asking for replacement in both of my games, but I'm not sure that's the right course of action. To be clear, it has nothing to do with my alignment.