Mini 607 - Cop Central [GAME OVER!]
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I don't like Fark's reluctance either. Also, two people have investigated him (two have investigated Tekk as well), so his alignment would probably give us more information as a lynch of someone who's not been investigated at all.
I will however, not vote anyone until we're done with claiming the results.
As for tonight: Nobody has investigated drool, Korlash or Raging Rabbit. (Well maybe one of them was investigated by queen_of_spades).
We should make sure that this changes.-
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Innocent on Zeek.Farkshinsoup wrote: Tek -> Fark | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty
Aimless -> clammy | Guilty
drool -> Skruffs | ???
clammy -> Tekk | ???
Korlash -> Tekk | ???
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent
ZeekLTK -> TDC | ???
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty
Still needing to claim targets:
queen_of_spades-
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We should definitely wait with any lynch until we have qos's result.
can we get a prod on qos?
Zeek: Why do you prefer a Tekk lynch over a Fark lynch? I agree that it should be one of those two, but I'd go with Aimless and prefer Fark.
Yeah, but trading one for one is not that easy.Aimless wrote:Further, we have 4 useful cops, and three scum. If we trade them one for one, we win.
Let's say Player A has an innocent on player B and a guilty on player C. Which of the three is scum?-
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Hm.Korlash wrote:I think Zeek said he thinks Tekk is better because he has both an innocent and guilty.
If Tekk is scum, then one of them is naive/insane and one is paranoid/sane.
If he is town, then one of them is naive/sane and one is paranoid/insane.
There are two innocents on Fark.
If Fark is scum, then both of them are naive/insane, and if he is town both of them are naive/sane.
Where is the advantage in the former?
Either of the investigators has three possible sanities now, and two possible sanities when we know Tekk's/Fark's alignment.-
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Of course not, just thought it was worth mentioning. It sounded much better before I noticed that you can't investigate yourself, and hence we would only have 8 results.Skruffs wrote:it can't be used to decicively determine if someone is town or scum.
While I see your problems with "arranged" investigation, they also have the big advantage that scum can't decide on whom they can claim an investigation. This is probably not that important now, because we don't really know where we're going either, but we'll probably want to assign investigations tomorrow.
Otherwise I'll just quote myself:
Maybe everyone should flip a coin: If it's head investigate one those three, if it isn't do whatever you want?As for tonight: Nobody has investigated drool, Korlash or Raging Rabbit. (Well maybe one of them was investigated by queen_of_spades).
We should make sure that this changes.-
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Fark: He is not sacrificing himself.
We don't need to actually lynch him, unless we get a counter claim. (And if we get one, it's a one to one scum-town trade, still good).
I approve of the plan to investigate Aimless.
Also, assuming Aimless is not counterclaimed, Fark's list now looks like this:
(Changes: added qos, both qos and Skruffs cannot be Sane anymore)Tekkactus: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Skruffs: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Aimless: Sane, Insane, Paranoid, Scum
dRrool89: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Clammy: Sane, Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Korlash: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
TDC: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Raging Rabbit: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
ZeekLTK: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Queen_of_Spades: Insane, Paranoid, Scum-
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EBWOP
Obviously, if he isn't counterclaimed, Aimless is also confirmed town.Tekkactus: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Skruffs: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Aimless: Sane, Insane, Paranoid
dRrool89: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Clammy: Sane, Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Korlash: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
TDC: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Raging Rabbit: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
ZeekLTK: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Queen_of_Spades: Insane, Paranoid, Scum-
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Skruffs:
I think that, regardless of who we investigate, we should claim our results tomorrow. We need all the information we can get. I think you have the same opinion in that regard. However, if we do that, than
a) If one of the two investigations was on any of (Jenter, Aimless, today's lynch, tonight's kill) and the other was on someone not in this group and yielded a different result - then we know either the claimer, or the second investigated person is scum.
All other results will not immediately yield scum, but will also not expose usefulness.
b) If however someone claims two different investigations where both investigated players are in said group (or neither), then we (and scum) know he's useful, but not what for.
Clearly a) is preferable to b), and hence I suggest that everyone who has not investigated any of (Jenter, Aimless, today's lynch) investigates Aimless.
Please note: Depending on who we lynch today only 4 to 7 players would investigate Aimless under that system.
You have a point about RR and QoS: I propose that they claim first tomorrow, if still alive.-
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Some things that make some lynches more favourable than others in my opinion:
1. Three people have claimed investigations that are convenient for scum:
RR & QoS (copy of someone else's result)
Fark (dead guy)
2. Two people have two investigations on them (which makes their lynch convenient to figure out sanities without having to investigate Aimless):
Fark & Tekk
3. Some people have suggested anti-town plans (this has been discussed so much that we probably are all sick of this..):
Fark (anti mass claim)
Skruffs (suggesting to lynch Clammy to figure out Aimless' (read: a probably dead guy's) sanity)
RR (the "not claiming results on day 2" strategy)
4. There has been this huge (not all that productive) discussion between Fark, RR, Skruffs and Zeek and I would be surprised if they were all town.
Fark is in all of these groups, so I'llvote: Fark. I could also live with a Skruffs or RR lynch.-
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And that's a good thing, and not a bad thing like you seem to think.charter wrote: I think it's virtually guarenteed that on day three we will get a few people claiming to know who is scum.
If player A says "I have this result, this means B must be scum", then we know that at least one of A and B is scum. It doesn't get much better than that.-
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Surely picking the scum between two players is easier than picking it between 11.
It's not like we're going to randomly lynch either of the two in such a case, we'll still decide who we think is scummier, it just vastly reduces the possible scum teams.
By the way, I think Aimless should decide on a full claim order for tomorrow.-
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Despite the recent deadline extension: That's not much time we have left, so I think it would be wise to talk about who we're going to lynch for a change.
The current deadline lynch would be Tekk, and I don't agree with that.
My Fark vote is not doing all that much at the moment, so I'llunvote, vote Skruffs.
As for tomorrow: We're not going to come to a decision regarding the who investigates who, apparently, but I agree that we should claim the results, and that we should claim them in Aimless' order (and Aimless is of course invited to revise that order before the deadline).-
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Such a shame, because I have a guilty on Aimless and hence know I'm Insane and you're scum :/
My sanity is all wasted now that you've exposed yourself.
vote: Zeek
--------------------claim sheet wrote:Tekk -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty
Aimless -> clammy | Guilty
Alabaska J -> Skruffs | Innocent; Korlash | Innocent
clammy -> Tekk | Guilty; Aimless | Guilty
Korlash -> Tekk | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent; Aimless | Guilty
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
ZeekLTK -> TDC | Innocent; Aimless | Guilty
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty; Raging Rabbit | Guilty
charter -> Aimless | Guilty; Korlash | Guilty
potential sanities wrote:Tekkactus: Sane, Naive, Scum
Skruffs: Insane, Paranoid
Aimless: Sane, Insane, Paranoid
Alabaska J: Sane, Naive, Scum
Clammy: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Korlash: Sane, Naive, Scum
TDC: Insane, Scum
Raging Rabbit: Sane, Naive, Scum
ZeekLTK: Insane, Scum
Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Charter: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
One of Zeek and I should be lynched obviously, and if the town decides wrong, the other tomorrow.
Feel free to ask me anything you want.-
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That sounds like a good plan.
Does the town have any preference on who I should investigate?
Also in which order will we claim tomorrow. I would've suggested that both Zeek and I provide lists and you use the one who turns up town, but if we lynch clammy that's not going to work.
That said 4 people have claimed sane/naive + Aimless might've been sane, so I'd be happy with any of the sane/naive people providing a list.-
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Actually, I'm voting you.
But I can see how this is a tough decision for the town to make and that clammy in that respect is a better choice, since it gives another investigation that will show that I'm town and you're scum. (And who knows, I'll likely out one of your partner's that way, or at least confirm someone else).
This is why you fear RR's plan (yeah, it's RR's plan, not mine, btw).-
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Okay, just went over it again, these are all possible scum teams at this point:
(Zeek|TDC)+charter+Fark
(Zeek|TDC)+clammy+(charter|Fark|Alabaska|Tekk|RR|Korlash)
Zeek+TDC+(clammy|charter|Fark)
That's a total of 17 possible teams
Zeek and I are part of 10 teams each
clammy is part of 13 teams
charter and Fark are in 5, everyone else in 2.
Obviously from where I stand only 7 teams are possible, with Zeek being in all 7, clammy in 6, charter and Fark in 2 and everyone else in 1.-
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Guilty on charter, so he's innocent.
claim order by RR wrote: Zeek
charter
Tekk
Koralsh
Fark
Alabaska J
--------------------claim sheet wrote:Tekk -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty
Aimless -> clammy | Guilty
Alabaska J -> Skruffs | Innocent; Korlash | Innocent
Korlash -> Tekk | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent; Aimless | Guilty; charter | Guilty
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
ZeekLTK -> TDC | Innocent; Aimless | Guilty
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty; Raging Rabbit | Guilty
charter -> Aimless | Guilty; Korlash | Guilty
Also, if anyone still doubts Zeek's scumness after that quick hammer..potential sanities wrote:Tekkactus: Sane, Naive, Scum
Skruffs: Insane, Paranoid
Aimless: Sane, Paranoid
Alabaska J: Sane, Naive, Scum
Clammy: Scum
Korlash: Sane, Naive, Scum
TDC: Insane, Scum
Raging Rabbit: Sane, Naive
ZeekLTK: Insane, Scum
Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Charter: Insane, Paranoid, Scum-
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Sure, here goes:Farkshinsoup wrote:Before we go any further, could both TDC and zeek do up a reveal order for tomorrow?
Fark
Tekk
Alabaska
Korlash
charter
Also, reading back a bit I wonder why Zeek included me in his claim list. If he was town then I would be confirmed scum after his death and a claim would be unnecessary. Slip?-
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I just noticed this from yesterday's twilight.Tekkactus wrote:I'm investigating Zeek tonight. I'll know what my sanity is once clammy is dead, regardless.
1. Obviously clammy's alignment did not tell you your sanity.. why did you think it would?
2. Why did you investigate RR instead of Zeek?
Two other things I noticed:
1. If Fark is scum, then RR was naive. WIFOM or not, but scum knowingly killing a useless seems to be stupid.
2. I thought about why Zeek claimed Insane yesterday, here's how the claim sheet looked before he claimed:
With the knowledge that clammy was scum and my knowledge that charter is town, this meant (from Zeek's point of view):Tekk -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty
Aimless -> clammy | Guilty
Alabaska J -> Skruffs | Innocent; Korlash | Innocent
clammy -> Tekk | Guilty; Aimless | Guilty
Korlash -> Tekk | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
ZeekLTK -> TDC | Innocent
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty; Raging Rabbit | Guilty
charter -> Aimless | Guilty; Korlash | Guilty
Skruffs Insane/Paranoid
Aimless Sane/Paranoid
TDC Insane/Paranoid
Fark Insane/Paranoid if Fark is town
charter Insane/Paranoid if Korlash is town, Paranoid if Korlash is scum.
This means that if either Fark or Korlash are scum, only three people could've been Insane, so the chances of me being Insane were 2/3. If neither of them is scum, then the chances were 1/2.
That's far away from proving anything, but enough for me to revise my claim order:
Korlash
Tekk
Fark
Alabaska
charter-
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It's called bussing.charter wrote:Gah, reread clammy's posts. Unfortunately the only interaction he's had with either of TDC or Zeek is for voting Zeek yesterday. I'm willing to believe he would vote for a townie over his scumbuddy, so
vote TDC
Also I'd like to refer you to the question about Zeek's quick hammer - do you think that was a pro-town thing to do?-
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Here's the quote, for convenience.Raging Rabbit wrote:
If clammy is guilty, you'll investigate charter and Zeek'll investigate Fark.TDC wrote:Please also supply investigation targets, I would prefer if Zeek had a different target than me, for obvious reasons.
If he's innocent, you'll investigate Tekk and Zeek'll invetigate Koralsh. I don't think we need to assign investigations for the others.-
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ZeekLTK wrote: You have to claim you investigated Aimless and got a guilty or else you get lynched.
I don't think this is the case, but I've already had that argument with RR, if anyone else wants to bring this up again, feel free.
I am attacking you for hammering too quickly.Also you are attacking me for hammering a mafia. What further discussion did I prevent? You being able to talk us out of lynching clammy? Everyone had posted their claim orders and had decided on targets (forcing you to investigate charter, etc.), there wasn't a whole lot more to talk about.
You preventedthe towndeciding who should investigate who and who should claim when, as a result we could only useRR's thoughts.
Also please point out where you could possibly get the idea that I opposed the clammy lynch. (You actually previously attacked me for being in favour of it, remember?)
This is hilarious. Again: If you were town, then your death would prove that I was scum: Why would anyone want a claim from a proven scum? You just lynch him and are done with it.Also TDC, how would including you on a claim sheet be incriminating of me? Obviously you aren't going to get killed at night, so of course I want to make you claim first if you're still alive and if the town decides to use my list.
But I can see how this is confusing for you, since you know I'm town.-
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This makes no sense.ZeekLTK wrote:It is the case because if you claimed an innocent on Aimless then it means that to everyone else:
Zeek is either insane or scum
TDC is either naive or scum
So you automatically get lynched because, all things equal, there would be a chance that I am useful while you aren't. But by claiming to be insane, you try to make it an equal chance of either of us getting lynched so that the town might possibly lynch me and kill a useful cop for you.
If you kill the useless claimed cop and the useful claimed cop is town, then the useful claimed cop is nightkilled. There is no advantage in lynching the useless cop. Either lynch results in there being no investigation of the useful claimed cop.
This is a lie, you did only quote half the sentence, here is the full quote:-I claimed BEFORE TDC *and* alluded to my results before anyone else even claimed [what I quoted during my claim].
You quoted it without the paranthesis. With them, it is not a breadcrumb. But nice try.And today's results will show why it was a good idea (if people listened and did it).
How is 50% or even 67% a "huge" gamble?---TDC even admits that, at best, I would have had to have taken a huge gamble if I were scum to try to anticipate that he would be insane (if he were town) -- what is more plausible? That I took a huge risk, or that I actually had the result I claimed and previously alluded to?
Bussing.-clammy (scum) had a choice on Day 2 of either pushing for TDC's lynch or my lynch and clammy clearly went after me and showed absolutely no interestin voting TDC whatsoever.
WIFOM.-Other than me, RR was probably the most likely person to vote against TDC today and he gets killed at night...
"a little" too quick, haha.The only thing against me is that I was a little too quick in hammering (a scum), but do remember that clammy was trying to get people to bandwagon against me [he put me on L-2 with his vote], so I think I was at least somewhat justified in hammering him quickly - to make sure that the scum weren't able to turn the tide and get me mislynched, like TDC and clammy were trying to do (they were both voting for me when the day ended).
And again: Were was I "trying to turn the tide"? Please give a quote where I argued against clammy's lynch. This is simply a lie.-
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TDC Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2108
- Joined: January 25, 2008
- Location: Berlin, Germany