Mini 607 - Cop Central [GAME OVER!]


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Post Post #8 (isolation #0) » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:33 am

Post by TDC »

That is certainly correct.
Since everyone is either Cop or Scum..
Do we mass claim our investigation results?
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Post Post #34 (isolation #1) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:19 am

Post by TDC »

I investigated ZeekLTK.
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Post Post #41 (isolation #2) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:20 am

Post by TDC »

Hehe.
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Post Post #52 (isolation #3) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:13 am

Post by TDC »

And can we get a prod for queen_of_spades? Hasn't posted at all so far.
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Post Post #59 (isolation #4) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:00 am

Post by TDC »

I don't like Fark's reluctance either. Also, two people have investigated him (two have investigated Tekk as well), so his alignment would probably give us more information as a lynch of someone who's not been investigated at all.

I will however, not vote anyone until we're done with claiming the results.

As for tonight: Nobody has investigated drool, Korlash or Raging Rabbit. (Well maybe one of them was investigated by queen_of_spades).
We should make sure that this changes.
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Post Post #62 (isolation #5) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:15 am

Post by TDC »

Skruffs: I quote the opening post for you: "You should expect to see a dead body every morning.
I expect to see one every night.
" We have to lynch - otherwise you would be right, of course.
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Post Post #64 (isolation #6) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:20 am

Post by TDC »

In fact, the mod has already clarified that on page one:
SensFan wrote:
Skruffs wrote:The real question should be if someone should be lynched today or not.
No Lynch is not an option in this game. At deadline, the person with the most votes will be lynched. Ties will be broken by chance.
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Post Post #81 (isolation #7) » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:50 am

Post by TDC »

Farkshinsoup wrote: Tek -> Fark | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty
Aimless -> clammy | Guilty
drool -> Skruffs | ???
clammy -> Tekk | ???
Korlash -> Tekk | ???
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent
ZeekLTK -> TDC | ???
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty

Still needing to claim targets:
queen_of_spades
Innocent on Zeek.
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Post Post #98 (isolation #8) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:46 am

Post by TDC »

Raging Rabbit: That player will get night killed, and nobody has any result..
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Post Post #112 (isolation #9) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:30 pm

Post by TDC »

Raging Rabbit wrote:
TDC wrote:Raging Rabbit: That player will get night killed, and nobody has any result..
Fark investigated Jenter (assuming he's not lying), and got a result.
Ah, my fault, sorry.
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Post Post #113 (isolation #10) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:44 pm

Post by TDC »

We should definitely wait with any lynch until we have qos's result.
can we get a prod on qos?


Zeek: Why do you prefer a Tekk lynch over a Fark lynch? I agree that it should be one of those two, but I'd go with Aimless and prefer Fark.
Aimless wrote:Further, we have 4 useful cops, and three scum. If we trade them one for one, we win.
Yeah, but trading one for one is not that easy.
Let's say Player A has an innocent on player B and a guilty on player C. Which of the three is scum?
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Post Post #115 (isolation #11) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:19 pm

Post by TDC »

Korlash wrote:I think Zeek said he thinks Tekk is better because he has both an innocent and guilty.
Hm.
If Tekk is scum, then one of them is naive/insane and one is paranoid/sane.
If he is town, then one of them is naive/sane and one is paranoid/insane.

There are two innocents on Fark.
If Fark is scum, then both of them are naive/insane, and if he is town both of them are naive/sane.

Where is the advantage in the former?
Either of the investigators has three possible sanities now, and two possible sanities when we know Tekk's/Fark's alignment.
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Post Post #129 (isolation #12) » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:19 am

Post by TDC »

Also, if we receive more than 4 guilty or more than 4 innocent results on him (and at least one of these two things must happen), we know that at least #num-4 of the #num people that have a guilty/innocent must be scum. Any constraint is useful in the long run.
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Post Post #130 (isolation #13) » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:25 am

Post by TDC »

EBWOP: Well, I was a bit fast with the "must happen" thing. 9 people will be alive tomorrow, and Skruffs cannot investigate himself.. so strike that bit. Still, if scum have to claim before town we could still end up with more than 4 guilty/innocent claims.
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Post Post #137 (isolation #14) » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:38 am

Post by TDC »

Skruffs wrote:it can't be used to decicively determine if someone is town or scum.
Of course not, just thought it was worth mentioning. It sounded much better before I noticed that you can't investigate yourself, and hence we would only have 8 results.
While I see your problems with "arranged" investigation, they also have the big advantage that scum can't decide on whom they can claim an investigation. This is probably not that important now, because we don't really know where we're going either, but we'll probably want to assign investigations tomorrow.

Otherwise I'll just quote myself:
As for tonight: Nobody has investigated drool, Korlash or Raging Rabbit. (Well maybe one of them was investigated by queen_of_spades).
We should make sure that this changes.
Maybe everyone should flip a coin: If it's head investigate one those three, if it isn't do whatever you want?
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Post Post #138 (isolation #15) » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:39 am

Post by TDC »

Farkshinsoup wrote: Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
I find it amusing that you consider the possibility of being scum, but not of being sane. Any reason for that?
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Post Post #139 (isolation #16) » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:39 am

Post by TDC »

EBWOP: Ah right, you were the one with the result on the dead guy. D'oh.
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Post Post #164 (isolation #17) » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:26 pm

Post by TDC »

Fark: He is not sacrificing himself.
We don't need to actually lynch him, unless we get a counter claim. (And if we get one, it's a one to one scum-town trade, still good).

I approve of the plan to investigate Aimless.

Also, assuming Aimless is not counterclaimed, Fark's list now looks like this:
Tekkactus: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Skruffs: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Aimless: Sane, Insane, Paranoid, Scum
dRrool89: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Clammy: Sane, Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Korlash: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
TDC: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Raging Rabbit: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
ZeekLTK: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Queen_of_Spades: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
(Changes: added qos, both qos and Skruffs cannot be Sane anymore)
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Post Post #165 (isolation #18) » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:52 pm

Post by TDC »

EBWOP
Tekkactus: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Skruffs: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Aimless: Sane, Insane, Paranoid
dRrool89: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Clammy: Sane, Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Korlash: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
TDC: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Raging Rabbit: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
ZeekLTK: Sane, Insane, Naive, Scum
Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Queen_of_Spades: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Obviously, if he isn't counterclaimed, Aimless is also confirmed town.
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Post Post #189 (isolation #19) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:27 am

Post by TDC »

Skruffs:
I think that, regardless of who we investigate, we should claim our results tomorrow. We need all the information we can get. I think you have the same opinion in that regard. However, if we do that, than
a) If one of the two investigations was on any of (Jenter, Aimless, today's lynch, tonight's kill) and the other was on someone not in this group and yielded a different result - then we know either the claimer, or the second investigated person is scum.
All other results will not immediately yield scum, but will also not expose usefulness.
b) If however someone claims two different investigations where both investigated players are in said group (or neither), then we (and scum) know he's useful, but not what for.

Clearly a) is preferable to b), and hence I suggest that everyone who has not investigated any of (Jenter, Aimless, today's lynch) investigates Aimless.

Please note: Depending on who we lynch today only 4 to 7 players would investigate Aimless under that system.

You have a point about RR and QoS: I propose that they claim first tomorrow, if still alive.
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Post Post #254 (isolation #20) » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:19 am

Post by TDC »

Some things that make some lynches more favourable than others in my opinion:

1. Three people have claimed investigations that are convenient for scum:
RR & QoS (copy of someone else's result)
Fark (dead guy)

2. Two people have two investigations on them (which makes their lynch convenient to figure out sanities without having to investigate Aimless):
Fark & Tekk

3. Some people have suggested anti-town plans (this has been discussed so much that we probably are all sick of this..):
Fark (anti mass claim)
Skruffs (suggesting to lynch Clammy to figure out Aimless' (read: a probably dead guy's) sanity)
RR (the "not claiming results on day 2" strategy)

4. There has been this huge (not all that productive) discussion between Fark, RR, Skruffs and Zeek and I would be surprised if they were all town.

Fark is in all of these groups, so I'll
vote: Fark
. I could also live with a Skruffs or RR lynch.
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Post Post #263 (isolation #21) » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:27 pm

Post by TDC »

clammy wrote:No, i'm saying we're applying assumptions based on the "right" play when we have three amognst us who want to derail our idea of what is right.
If Aimless is one of the three, then the real retired cop should counterclaim.
If he isn't, then then the changes are correct.
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Post Post #269 (isolation #22) » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:49 am

Post by TDC »

charter wrote: I think it's virtually guarenteed that on day three we will get a few people claiming to know who is scum.
And that's a good thing, and not a bad thing like you seem to think.

If player A says "I have this result, this means B must be scum", then we know that at least one of A and B is scum. It doesn't get much better than that.
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Post Post #271 (isolation #23) » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:38 am

Post by TDC »

Surely picking the scum between two players is easier than picking it between 11.
It's not like we're going to randomly lynch either of the two in such a case, we'll still decide who we think is scummier, it just vastly reduces the possible scum teams.

By the way, I think Aimless should decide on a full claim order for tomorrow.
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Post Post #280 (isolation #24) » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:04 am

Post by TDC »

ZeekLTK wrote:Oh hey, did you guys notice that both QoS and Skruffs claimed to have investigated Aimless on Night 1? Hmmm...
And?
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Post Post #281 (isolation #25) » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:07 am

Post by TDC »

ZeekLTK wrote:AND - this whole "let's claim in order"
If you really mean that you oppose a claim order (provided by Aimless) then I join charter in asking what the problem with that is.
Ensuring that the most scummy players claim first is a good way to make scum claim impossible results.
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Post Post #284 (isolation #26) » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:37 am

Post by TDC »

I don't understand how the rest of your post is relevant.
Regardless of what else we do, the information that scum gain is exactly the same no matter in what order we claim. The information that we gain, however, can be maximised if we force scum to claim first.
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Post Post #288 (isolation #27) » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:58 am

Post by TDC »

I see. It sounded as if what bothered you was the order and not the mass claim itself.
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Post Post #291 (isolation #28) » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:04 am

Post by TDC »

Farkshinsoup wrote:That having been said, just because Aimless's motives are clean, doesn't mean that he will necessarily come up with the optimal order, from scum up to town, TDC.
Of course not, but I think we can all agree that he's going to be unbiased.
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Post Post #382 (isolation #29) » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:34 am

Post by TDC »

Despite the recent deadline extension: That's not much time we have left, so I think it would be wise to talk about who we're going to lynch for a change.

The current deadline lynch would be Tekk, and I don't agree with that.
My Fark vote is not doing all that much at the moment, so I'll
unvote, vote Skruffs
.

As for tomorrow: We're not going to come to a decision regarding the who investigates who, apparently, but I agree that we should claim the results, and that we should claim them in Aimless' order (and Aimless is of course invited to revise that order before the deadline).
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Post Post #461 (isolation #30) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:18 pm

Post by TDC »

Such a shame, because I have a guilty on Aimless and hence know I'm Insane and you're scum :/
My sanity is all wasted now that you've exposed yourself.

vote: Zeek

claim sheet wrote:Tekk -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty

Aimless -> clammy | Guilty

Alabaska J -> Skruffs | Innocent; Korlash | Innocent
clammy -> Tekk | Guilty; Aimless | Guilty
Korlash -> Tekk | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent; Aimless | Guilty
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
ZeekLTK -> TDC | Innocent; Aimless | Guilty
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty; Raging Rabbit | Guilty
charter -> Aimless | Guilty; Korlash | Guilty
--------------------
potential sanities wrote:Tekkactus: Sane, Naive, Scum
Skruffs: Insane, Paranoid
Aimless: Sane, Insane, Paranoid

Alabaska J: Sane, Naive, Scum
Clammy: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Korlash: Sane, Naive, Scum
TDC: Insane, Scum
Raging Rabbit: Sane, Naive, Scum
ZeekLTK: Insane, Scum
Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Charter: Insane, Paranoid, Scum

One of Zeek and I should be lynched obviously, and if the town decides wrong, the other tomorrow.

Feel free to ask me anything you want.
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Post Post #464 (isolation #31) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:41 pm

Post by TDC »

Why would I need to fake a guilty?
In fact my sanity is absolutely irrelevant, I would know that Zeek must be scum by the simple fact he claims I'm scum.
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Post Post #466 (isolation #32) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:56 pm

Post by TDC »

Obviously, yes.
I was just correcting RR who seemed to think I needed to be insane, when I in fact could as well have been naive.
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Post Post #468 (isolation #33) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:08 pm

Post by TDC »

Why would I care whether I'm useful? Would you lynch the useless cop first? That doesn't make sense, the surviving useful cop will be nightkilled anyway if he is town.
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Post Post #470 (isolation #34) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:20 pm

Post by TDC »

That sounds like a good plan.
Does the town have any preference on who I should investigate?

Also in which order will we claim tomorrow. I would've suggested that both Zeek and I provide lists and you use the one who turns up town, but if we lynch clammy that's not going to work.

That said 4 people have claimed sane/naive + Aimless might've been sane, so I'd be happy with any of the sane/naive people providing a list.
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Post Post #472 (isolation #35) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:30 pm

Post by TDC »

Also, Scum may decide to keep the useless cop alive, even when confirmed innocent.
I don't think I understand how this means that insane is a more likely claim for scum in this situation.
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Post Post #475 (isolation #36) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:44 pm

Post by TDC »

Whatever.

Anyway, just in case we don't lynch clammy and so I don't forget, this is the list I would use:

clammy
charter
Fark
Alabaska
Tekk
RR
Korlash
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Post Post #480 (isolation #37) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:28 am

Post by TDC »

Actually, I'm voting you.

But I can see how this is a tough decision for the town to make and that clammy in that respect is a better choice, since it gives another investigation that will show that I'm town and you're scum. (And who knows, I'll likely out one of your partner's that way, or at least confirm someone else).

This is why you fear RR's plan (yeah, it's RR's plan, not mine, btw).
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Post Post #485 (isolation #38) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:37 am

Post by TDC »

Also, I reiterate and broaden my request:
Can Alabaska, Tekk, RR and Korlash (at most one of these four is scum) agree on a claim list and direct the investigations of Zeek, I, charter and Fark (if need be dependent on clammy's alignment) for the clammy-lynch-case.
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Post Post #489 (isolation #39) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:19 am

Post by TDC »

Okay, just went over it again, these are all possible scum teams at this point:

(Zeek|TDC)+charter+Fark
(Zeek|TDC)+clammy+(charter|Fark|Alabaska|Tekk|RR|Korlash)
Zeek+TDC+(clammy|charter|Fark)

That's a total of 17 possible teams
Zeek and I are part of 10 teams each
clammy is part of 13 teams
charter and Fark are in 5, everyone else in 2.

Obviously from where I stand only 7 teams are possible, with Zeek being in all 7, clammy in 6, charter and Fark in 2 and everyone else in 1.
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Post Post #490 (isolation #40) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:29 am

Post by TDC »

EBWOP: I've checked these by hand, because I hoped one of the four near-confirmed could maybe be cleared due to the investigations they have on each other. Such is not the case.
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Post Post #495 (isolation #41) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:36 am

Post by TDC »

Please also supply investigation targets, I would prefer if Zeek had a different target than me, for obvious reasons.
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Post Post #497 (isolation #42) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:42 am

Post by TDC »

Nobody has investigated either of us so far.
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Post Post #498 (isolation #43) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:44 am

Post by TDC »

Also, this is L-1 if I'm right, don't hammer yet.
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Post Post #513 (isolation #44) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:31 am

Post by TDC »

Guilty on charter, so he's innocent.
claim order by RR wrote: Zeek
charter
Tekk
Koralsh
Fark
Alabaska J
claim sheet wrote:Tekk -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty

Aimless -> clammy | Guilty

Alabaska J -> Skruffs | Innocent; Korlash | Innocent
Korlash -> Tekk | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent; Aimless | Guilty; charter | Guilty
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent

ZeekLTK -> TDC | Innocent; Aimless | Guilty
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty; Raging Rabbit | Guilty
charter -> Aimless | Guilty; Korlash | Guilty
--------------------
potential sanities wrote:Tekkactus: Sane, Naive, Scum
Skruffs: Insane, Paranoid
Aimless: Sane, Paranoid

Alabaska J: Sane, Naive, Scum
Clammy: Scum

Korlash: Sane, Naive, Scum
TDC: Insane, Scum
Raging Rabbit: Sane, Naive

ZeekLTK: Insane, Scum
Fark: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Charter: Insane, Paranoid, Scum
Also, if anyone still doubts Zeek's scumness after that quick hammer..
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Post Post #514 (isolation #45) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:31 am

Post by TDC »

Oh and
vote: Zeek
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Post Post #521 (isolation #46) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:25 am

Post by TDC »

Why is that? You are implying Korlash is confirmed town, have I missed something?
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Post Post #523 (isolation #47) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:26 am

Post by TDC »

Uh, you're implying he is confirmed scum, actually. Because if he's town, charter might be insane.
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Post Post #525 (isolation #48) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:27 am

Post by TDC »

Alabaska J wrote:
TDC wrote:Why is that? You are implying Korlash is confirmed town, have I missed something?
Because RR was town…
So was Aimless and unless you know something about Korlash I don't he might be town as well.
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Post Post #527 (isolation #49) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:29 am

Post by TDC »

Yay, simulposts.

Anyway, Tekk's next.
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Post Post #540 (isolation #50) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:41 am

Post by TDC »

Zeek, please explain why you ended the day early. We were not done discussing investigations or claim order.

I see no possible town rationale for that.
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Post Post #541 (isolation #51) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:25 am

Post by TDC »

Also, charter and Fark are not cleared, the combinations Zeek+Fark and TDC+charter are possible.
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Post Post #543 (isolation #52) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:47 am

Post by TDC »

Farkshinsoup wrote:Before we go any further, could both TDC and zeek do up a reveal order for tomorrow?
Sure, here goes:
Fark
Tekk
Alabaska
Korlash
charter

Also, reading back a bit I wonder why Zeek included me in his claim list. If he was town then I would be confirmed scum after his death and a claim would be unnecessary. Slip?
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Post Post #545 (isolation #53) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:00 am

Post by TDC »

Tekkactus wrote:I'm investigating Zeek tonight. I'll know what my sanity is once clammy is dead, regardless.
I just noticed this from yesterday's twilight.
1. Obviously clammy's alignment did not tell you your sanity.. why did you think it would?
2. Why did you investigate RR instead of Zeek?

Two other things I noticed:
1. If Fark is scum, then RR was naive. WIFOM or not, but scum knowingly killing a useless seems to be stupid.

2. I thought about why Zeek claimed Insane yesterday, here's how the claim sheet looked before he claimed:
Tekk -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty
Aimless -> clammy | Guilty
Alabaska J -> Skruffs | Innocent; Korlash | Innocent
clammy -> Tekk | Guilty; Aimless | Guilty
Korlash -> Tekk | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
ZeekLTK -> TDC | Innocent
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty; Raging Rabbit | Guilty
charter -> Aimless | Guilty; Korlash | Guilty
With the knowledge that clammy was scum and my knowledge that charter is town, this meant (from Zeek's point of view):
Skruffs Insane/Paranoid
Aimless Sane/Paranoid
TDC Insane/Paranoid
Fark Insane/Paranoid if Fark is town
charter Insane/Paranoid if Korlash is town, Paranoid if Korlash is scum.

This means that if either Fark or Korlash are scum, only three people could've been Insane, so the chances of me being Insane were 2/3. If neither of them is scum, then the chances were 1/2.

That's far away from proving anything, but enough for me to revise my claim order:
Korlash
Tekk
Fark
Alabaska
charter
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Post Post #546 (isolation #54) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:04 am

Post by TDC »

charter wrote:Gah, reread clammy's posts. Unfortunately the only interaction he's had with either of TDC or Zeek is for voting Zeek yesterday. I'm willing to believe he would vote for a townie over his scumbuddy, so

vote TDC
It's called bussing.

Also I'd like to refer you to the question about Zeek's quick hammer - do you think that was a pro-town thing to do?
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Post Post #550 (isolation #55) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:17 am

Post by TDC »

I considered it possible that you were bussing Zeek, yes.
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Post Post #552 (isolation #56) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:37 am

Post by TDC »

I'll underline this because it is so important
1.
I was told by RR that I should investigate you. It was not my decision.
I would actually have preferred Fark over you.

2. Also I obviously NOW know that you weren't bussing. You had asked what I thought yesterday, and that's what I did think.
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Post Post #553 (isolation #57) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:39 am

Post by TDC »

Raging Rabbit wrote:
TDC wrote:Please also supply investigation targets, I would prefer if Zeek had a different target than me, for obvious reasons.
If clammy is guilty, you'll investigate charter and Zeek'll investigate Fark.

If he's innocent, you'll investigate Tekk and Zeek'll invetigate Koralsh. I don't think we need to assign investigations for the others.
Here's the quote, for convenience.
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Post Post #554 (isolation #58) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:45 am

Post by TDC »

Also note that had we had more discussion between those who were considered most likely town about who should be investigated, this could've been decided differently. Zeek's hammer prevented any further discussion.
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Post Post #559 (isolation #59) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:53 am

Post by TDC »

ZeekLTK wrote: You have to claim you investigated Aimless and got a guilty or else you get lynched.

I don't think this is the case, but I've already had that argument with RR, if anyone else wants to bring this up again, feel free.
Also you are attacking me for hammering a mafia. What further discussion did I prevent? You being able to talk us out of lynching clammy? Everyone had posted their claim orders and had decided on targets (forcing you to investigate charter, etc.), there wasn't a whole lot more to talk about.
I am attacking you for hammering too quickly.
You prevented
the town
deciding who should investigate who and who should claim when, as a result we could only use
RR
's thoughts.
Also please point out where you could possibly get the idea that I opposed the clammy lynch. (You actually previously attacked me for being in favour of it, remember?)
Also TDC, how would including you on a claim sheet be incriminating of me? Obviously you aren't going to get killed at night, so of course I want to make you claim first if you're still alive and if the town decides to use my list.
This is hilarious. Again: If you were town, then your death would prove that I was scum: Why would anyone want a claim from a proven scum? You just lynch him and are done with it.
But I can see how this is confusing for you, since you know I'm town.
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Post Post #565 (isolation #60) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:05 am

Post by TDC »

ZeekLTK wrote:It is the case because if you claimed an innocent on Aimless then it means that to everyone else:

Zeek is either insane or scum
TDC is either naive or scum

So you automatically get lynched because, all things equal, there would be a chance that I am useful while you aren't. But by claiming to be insane, you try to make it an equal chance of either of us getting lynched so that the town might possibly lynch me and kill a useful cop for you.
This makes no sense.
If you kill the useless claimed cop and the useful claimed cop is town, then the useful claimed cop is nightkilled. There is no advantage in lynching the useless cop. Either lynch results in there being no investigation of the useful claimed cop.

-I claimed BEFORE TDC *and* alluded to my results before anyone else even claimed [what I quoted during my claim].
This is a lie, you did only quote half the sentence, here is the full quote:
And today's results will show why it was a good idea (if people listened and did it).
You quoted it without the paranthesis. With them, it is not a breadcrumb. But nice try.
---TDC even admits that, at best, I would have had to have taken a huge gamble if I were scum to try to anticipate that he would be insane (if he were town) -- what is more plausible? That I took a huge risk, or that I actually had the result I claimed and previously alluded to?
How is 50% or even 67% a "huge" gamble?
-clammy (scum) had a choice on Day 2 of either pushing for TDC's lynch or my lynch and clammy clearly went after me and showed absolutely no interestin voting TDC whatsoever.
Bussing.
-Other than me, RR was probably the most likely person to vote against TDC today and he gets killed at night...
WIFOM.
The only thing against me is that I was a little too quick in hammering (a scum), but do remember that clammy was trying to get people to bandwagon against me [he put me on L-2 with his vote], so I think I was at least somewhat justified in hammering him quickly - to make sure that the scum weren't able to turn the tide and get me mislynched, like TDC and clammy were trying to do (they were both voting for me when the day ended).
"a little" too quick, haha.
And again: Were was I "trying to turn the tide"? Please give a quote where I argued against clammy's lynch. This is simply a lie.
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Post Post #567 (isolation #61) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:13 am

Post by TDC »

You are just not getting it:
IF the useful cop is town and IF the useless cop is lynched THEN the useful cop is nightkilled.
Or do you seriously suggest that there's any chance for the useful cop to survive the night in that scenario?
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Post Post #569 (isolation #62) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:20 am

Post by TDC »

That only works if scum know who's useful.
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Post Post #571 (isolation #63) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:37 am

Post by TDC »

I did not claim you knew I was useful, just that you maybe knew it was more likely. Anyway if the town think that me being insane speaks against me, then so be it, I can't change it.
Also responding with "bussing" and "WIFOM" just casts some doubt on my points - but it does NOT prove them to be wrong.
I can hardly "prove" why clammy voted you and not me. It's simply not possible. Neither can you prove you're right in that respect.

Care to say something about your lies? (See, this is something provable..)
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Post Post #573 (isolation #64) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:47 am

Post by TDC »

As I said: Gamble? Yes. Huge gamble? No.
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Post Post #575 (isolation #65) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:52 am

Post by TDC »

1. Even if that was a valid breadcrumb, all that would show is that you planned to claim insane right there.
2. The "if people listened and did it" does not clarify, it weakens what you say. You say that it will ONLY work if everybody did what the plan said.
3. You forgot the other lie: Where have I tried to prevent a clammy lynch?
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Post Post #577 (isolation #66) » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:30 am

Post by TDC »

Up until now it is possible we're both scum, yes.
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Post Post #593 (isolation #67) » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:06 am

Post by TDC »

Farkshinsoup wrote:I'd also like to hear more from TDC if he has anything to say.
If you have anything specific in mind, just ask.

Other than that: Depending on how likely you guys think it is that I am scum with Zeek, I suggest that charter supplies a claim list (and if he wants to an investigation target for me) for the case where I somehow do not get nightkilled.
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Post Post #595 (isolation #68) » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:40 am

Post by TDC »

Farkshinsoup wrote:This vote tipped the scales for a Skruffs lynch. You put this vote on, and then you never posted again until Day 2. Can you explain why you decided to lynch Skruffs?
Well, Tekk, Skruffs and Zeek were on two votes, with Tekk being the default deadline lynch. RR had one vote and my vote was on you.
Skruffs, Zeek and RR were the main movers of the huge "What should we do" discussion that clouded Day 1, I thought it was likely at least one of them was scum. RR seemed to be the most townie of the three (and he only had one vote, so me voting him would not have changed the Tekk-dies-at-deadline situation), so it was either Skruffs or Zeek. Obviously in hind sight it should've been Zeek, but what made me vote Skruffs were his attempts to discredit two sound plans - investigating Aimless and the only sane way to make a claim order if you have a confirmed innocent: letting him do it.

Not sure what you mean with "tipped the scales" - it put him on just 3 votes. I'm hardly responsible for your and Alabaska's votes that followed.
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Post Post #610 (isolation #69) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:11 pm

Post by TDC »

bah.
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Post Post #697 (isolation #70) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:57 am

Post by TDC »

Thank God!

Happy you figured that out all on your own, charter, but this would've been much easier if anyone actually paid attention to the claim list.

Exhibit A:
partial claim sheet from YESTERDAY wrote: Tekk -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent; RR | Innocent; charter | Innocent
Korlash -> Tekk | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent; TCD | Innocent; Fark | Innocent
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent; Aimless | Innocent
Question 1: What would these three players sanities be if Fark was scum?
Question 2: What does that tell you about Fark's alignment?

I was seriously annoyed when nobody figured this out!
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Post Post #699 (isolation #71) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:39 am

Post by TDC »

charter wrote:WHOA! So we did it then?
Yes, and again: Fark was freaking
confirmed town
since yesterday.
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Post Post #703 (isolation #72) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:52 am

Post by TDC »

Farkshinsoup wrote:Watching us miss that confirmation of me must have been torture.
It was! :)
Thanks Sensfan for such a fun game.
QFT
This also the first non-newbie game I've finished, so I'd be happy to hear any and all critiques of my play.
I can't put my finger into what exactly it was, but I though you were likely scum until Day 3..


Zeek: Just wondering, was my theory correct, that you claimed because with Korlash being scum I had such a high chance to be insane? Or would you've claimed anyway?

Korlash: I assume you didn't realize that you were proven scum today either? ^^
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Post Post #705 (isolation #73) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:57 am

Post by TDC »

Why did you kill Tekk then?

And why are you always switching my D and my C? =)
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Post Post #727 (isolation #74) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:01 am

Post by TDC »

By the way, I spent quite some time thinking who I should investigate N4.
I was supposed to investigate Korlash, but obviously my investigation only mattered if I survived - and if I survived, despite Korlash knowing that I was investigating him, wouldn't that clear Korlash and make my investigation useless?
But then, what if Korlash speculates on me doing exactly that?

In the end I figured that Korlash-scum was pretty much screwed anyway and could maybe pull that off.. So I investigated him..
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Post Post #729 (isolation #75) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:14 am

Post by TDC »

Does this mean that you actually considered leaving me alive?
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Post Post #742 (isolation #76) » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:06 am

Post by TDC »

That seems to be an unfavourable meta when being town.. :)

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