Open 319: Jungle Republic - Day 5: Calamity *GAME OVER*

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what can I say DK, whisper... I missed you! I'll probably be taking the better portion of the day just catching up ^^ So my predecessor had all of one post? xD

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Well sorry, that may be one my next couple. For the time being I'm actually going to

unvote DeityKabuto

as that was kondi's one and only action.. and make my own decisions n.n

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I have a request that BBmolla answer his own questions from wayyyy back on Page 2, it will affect my read on him. Please and thank you ^^ And I'll answer them as well so as to not ruffle feathers~

1. Prior experience at this site - I'm currently in my first and only Newbie game; I have played mafia on other sites since August of last year. Days are 48 hours and Nights are 24 so the setup is drastically different. DK and whisper are both in my other newbie game so I have some experience with them.

2. I wouldn't advocate the Seer outing themselves unless their lynch is on the loom, and even then, it depends. (Is the role of NKed players in this game revealed? This is a new concept for me, I am used to playing in games where lynched players roles are revealed and night killed are not) If so, even the threat of dying at night isn't particularly threatening as the town will have your posts to sort through (and thus discover who they think you may have either checked and cleared or checked and know is a werewolf) I ramble a lot.. does that make sense? :p

Linkitis with whisper's case @.@

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I'm interested in seeing The Tick's catchup posts because I have a very scummy vibe from tyhess and I'm only on page 5. I'm mentioning it now because one particular response to DK's questions (which all seemed to be snarky, mind you) leapt off the page and hit me with a hammer!

4. Do you think that Ray will actually flip scum?
There's a 7 in 12 chance that he won't, so no.

I don't know why this bothers me so much. Maybe it's because, following this logic, I'd be saying something along the lines of, "6 in 11 chance".... I'm not sure whether that implies that he might know Ray is town and wanted to look noble or if he was subtly defending a teammate. But up to this point in the read the Ray bandwagon looks really fishy. Maybe there will be more of a reason for it on down the line. I'd vote for him but he's gone, his replacement hasn't shown up yet, and I'm not finished catching up.

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EBWOP: the responses were snarky, not DK's questions.. necessarily xD

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lol this whole DK saying that shadow and sky were cheating thing is way ridiculous. There are a couple players on my other forum that I confuse all the time and that's what I read into it. Their screenames are Typhoony and Tranquility and they both act really similarly. In my mind they are the same person XD They get really offended when I tell them that... Is that what you meant DK, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Because thats how I understood your original comment.

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Wooosh - no quick lynch? ::sadface::

Okay, let's lay out some reactions to that wagon.

Tyhess is probably town.
The Fool never answered the 'deeper' reasons to vote Ray, did he? He should really answer that - like - na0w!
Fighting Shadows is probably town.
DK is...DK. I could get behind a policy lynch there but I think we could probably do better - Werewolves should totally kill him though, he gets crazy effective at scumhunting starting Day 3.
Could someone explain to me why it was scummy that DK called two players as having a similar playstyle? That (and question derpiness) seems to be the case on him. I'm down with the derpiness but the other thing...whuh? Explain pl0x, I'm ready to sheep onto that in a second once I know why it's scummy.

Ray should still be lynched, unless someone can quote me a post where he is actually scumhunting. He's an experienced player and he doesn't seem to know how to scumhunt - that doesn't worry anyone else? It worries the everlovin' frell out of me.

PING PING PING

Tyhess is probably town???
Werewolves should kill someone who gets good at scumhunting???
I already had you marked down as leaning scum and you took a giant leap into vote territory

votes Thor

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oooh I think I'm caught up although tbh I kind of skimmed the last couple pages ^^;;

quick reads...
BBmolla - scummy. You have pro-town play but I have a strong gut feeling it is a front. There are little things you say that nag at me like no other and I think its your werewolf teeth nipping at my ear. I'll have more to say on this after you answer your questions from page 2, and I'm off work for the day.

Tyhess - scummy

Thor - scummy

Fightingshadow - I had a strong gut feeling you were pro town early on but you have disappeared.... come back dude!

DK - pretty much the same as whispers read of him. TBH DK is kind of growing on me <3

Sky - neutral

whisper - town~

fool, cmpunk, donjosh - null/leaning scum... do any of you actually exist?? xD You are all majorly under the radar.

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Oh how could I forget Ray?? xD Null. I like that he isn't concerned with Thor's tunneling him and doesn't seem to have anything to hide. And while I kind of understand his stance on voting, it is also very peculiar.

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I agree with Ray that your vote on him over Thor re: your reads was very odd DK but it doesn't seem very out of the ordinary for you lol. I'm glad you agree but can you briefly highlight why you think Thor is the best lynch candidate?

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Okie dokie. It is interesting, Thor is one of those players that seem more active than they actually are. Possibly because he's mentioned so much? Idk

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pft I just subbed in, I want more discussion. We haven't even heard from The Tick yet, I hope it's good n.n

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Wow, I love being personally insulted. Feels great!

& why would I vote for someone who isn't around anymore, and whose replacement has yet to show up?

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How's that for sarcasm?

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Absolutely not, and I don't appreciate it either. I did not even go into detail why I originally had you marked as scummy in my notes, that is simply the post that sent me over the edge. And sure, I'd love to hear why you have a town read on tyhess. Just because I voted you doesn't mean I'm not open minded, or that I put a piece of duck tape over your mouth. But react like a smartass and I'll react in kind, I'll treat you how you treat me.

Linki - you're putting words in my mouth, I never said I don't want to know why.

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Oh forgive me I meant to go read that post of whisper's about the fool. That was posted while I was catching up so I thought I'd read it when I came back to it, but I skipped over it because I reached the part where I subbed in. Thanks for reminding me Sky :p

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Whispersilk proves she's better at reading comprehension and basic logic than blindfaeth.

Please explain why you're so convinced he isn't. Regardless of whether DK is scum or not, there are two factions.

DK does not have to be tyhess' teammate to be scum.

Oh wait, that's right. You think that tyhess is town because he voted with you on Ray, right? Anyone who agrees with you is good and anyone who doesn't, or accuses you, is bad, right?

Wrong.

It'd help the town, because inexperienced scum help the town, while an experience scum won't slip.

This really irked me. No one knows 100% who is scum at this point. And just like experienced scum are better to get rid of, experienced town are better to keep around. I would like more evidence before I go lynching Ray, sorry. Maybe the reason he can't scumhunt is because you are continually barraging him with attacks. I understand because I'm already feeling the fatigue of having to deal with you

Let's even say its Day 3 (so 4 players are killed), and we have 1 werewolf, 2 mafia, and 4 towns left + the seer...is it really beneficial to off one mafia (and get an innocent town) to off yourself at night? Imo, no...

The Mafia don't possess a night kill in this setup.

So it would be hands down the best play for the Seer to claim there. Lynch the last killing antitown player, and get a clear for the rest of the game.

But the wolves do....

Yeah, and the Seer only finds the wolves. So if one werewolf is dead, the Seer can out themself and reveal the final werewolf. Because the mafia doesn't have a NK, the rest of the game is only lynches; the Seer is not in danger of dying and is a confirmed townie. Something sat wrong with me about his logic here.

Then there were his continual nitpicking posts asking DK to please answer some damn questions, adding fuel to a fire that almost got him lynched. And his post I already highlighted why I found suspicious, I don't think he was calculating himself as a townie into the equation because I don't think he is one. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3295733 All of the responses are snarky. I don't know why you expect me to find you OR tyhess genuine when all you are doing all the time is being sarcastic.

And when you are talking about his response to the DK lynch, do you mean the post where he said "Don't lynch, he's at L-1"?? Is that all it takes to convince you that they are town? In that case,

Hey, no one lynch DK, alright? kthxbai.

YOU might be scum because....

here you advocate Ray's lynch regardless of alignment because you think he can't scumhunt. Sorry, a townie is a townie and IMO it is never a good idea to lynch one. I am not saying Ray is a townie, don't twist my words again. I am talking that on principle, a townsperson alive is more useful than a townsperson dead, nuff said.

hmmm
Sorry I have to agree with Ray on this one. Isn't he the one who went out of his way to say this is his alt and he does not want to disclose his main account? Linking you to previous games also implies you will want his main account. You should respect his wishes. He might want to get rid of a particular stigma. He might want to reform his gameplay. Whatever the reason, he's made it apparent long before this post that he has no intention of letting us compare. And he signed up with this account before he received his role PM, so I don't think it has anything to do with his alignment.

@TheFool - how is wagon hopping scummy in any way?

Understanding the rationale behind placing and moving votes can go a long way towards understanding that person's motives and alignment. Dodging questions about said rationale is therefore suspect.

In other words; wagon hopping isn't scummy at all.
The motives behind vote movement might be scummy.

I agree with that.

Also, you're voting Ray, so you're probably obv. town now. Good job!

xD here we go again. Someone agrees with you on Day 1 before we have any info to go off of and you think they're town... Not that I necessarily think that's scummy but you should consider revising that policy of yours. People can potentially manipulate the hell out of you.

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EBWOP: that first quote was the insult if I hadn't made that clear.

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Ehhh... The Tick's suspects and town reads don't make me any less suspicious of him from his predecessor tyhess

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xD I love your avvie btw.

Well, the fact you find DK scummy quirks my eyebrow but again, it's completely understandable if you've not played with him in the past.

Tick, what do you think of thor finding tyhess (therefore yourself) townie? And fyi I am going to try the gaston voice thing xD

Oh and re: whisper's case on the Fool I think I rather agree more or less with the comments and I'd like to see how he responds n.n

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RQS does nothing, really.

But I always feel compelled to answer the questions:

1. Undisclosed. This is an alt, so for personal reasons I won't reveal my meta. I don't have any finished games on this account yet.
2. That all depends on who the Werewolf is. If they are someone that could reasonably get lynched without the inside info, just pursue the case like normal. If they aren't, then by all means, claim.

VOTE: Sky

At night, the Sky gets dark, enabling the Mafia to be sneaky, and it holds the full moon sometimes, enabling the Werewolves to feast. This is clearly an antitown player.

Sorry, was wrong. It was Shadow

Regardless, he's still right - you can easily click on his name and see the threads he's posted in.

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EBWOP: or maybe I was right...? lol >.>; anyway, will respond to more of that post later... hard to do so at work. I really shouldn't be on this site at all but I'm addicted (:

Ok so can we compromise or something? When you're being sarcastic can you like, change the font color to orange or something? Because seriously, if I can't tell when you are being sarcastic and when you are not - I'm not asking you to change your play style- but it becomes a language barrier. Not only is it something you can hide behind as scum and point back to saying "oh i was just being sarcastic", but as a townie it is also a hindrance. Please, for the love of God.

Anyway, accusing people of being scum is part of the game; calling people dumb isn't. So we will just have to agree to disagree that it was an insult. I have a bachelor's degree, thanks.

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I don't think its unreasonable to hope that people say what they mean and mean what they say. Because otherwise they are bound to become the boy who cried wolf ~.~

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you must be joking. Not only have I replaced in long after it is allowed to post in the QT, but I quoted the post I was actually referring to.

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Yeah, and I butted in because it's regarding me.... so what? (:

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@ mod

- that's incorrect I unvoted DK and voted Thor, sorry if I did it in an unclear manner ^^;

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fair enough ^^

unvote DeityKabuto;
vote Thor

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@MOD: Post #347, my vote is on Thor, please fix~

you have to do it on a separate line <3

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lol btw I loved the public announcement xD

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I'm not exactly sure of what you're asking.... I think it's interesting that he thinks you are town when you are pursuing his lynch so hardcore. I think he is just trying to keep his cool and avoid the hammer. Whether that is a good or bad thing I can't tell. Everyone is going to want to survive their lynch. I would find it a little strange except both The Tick and BBMolla, who I have voiced suspicion of, have voiced the opposite opinion of me XD It always puts me on edge and I try to read intentions into it. On one hand, that person could potentially be mafia or werewolf and know that there is a good chance I am town-aligned as I am not on their team, and are trying to gain my trust or keep me a little quiet. On the other, that person could be a townsperson who genuinely thinks I am trying my best to help the town and are open minded enough to see past my suspicion of them.

So basically, I didn't answer your question XD What backing to what commentary are you looking for from him, exactly? You wanted him to tell you past game info or something and he told you to do the research or something right?

Personally, if I were in that situation I would react similarly - the difference being I would summarize an answer for you, maybe point you in the right direction. But I'm not sure I would go out of my way to do your homework & quote things. Does that make sense?

Again, if I didn't answer your question.. please rephrase ^^

[blindfaeth]

Could you kindly point me to your case on Ray because we must have different opinions on what a case is. To me, something like this is a case.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, bear with me. Basically what I gather from your exchange with Ray is this (please correct if I'm wrong):

You vote him in RVS for being an experienced player. (BTW I am reading your sarcasm better when you are in ISO.. I see that you purposefully tried to create a bandwagon to see how people would react amirite?)

Then you add to the plate that he isn't scumhunting. Doesn't make him helpful but doesn't damn him either.

You ask him to link you to a completed scum game and he tells you to do your own research.

You admit its more of a gut case than an experience case and announce you think his refusal to link you is either a lazy townie or scum hiding something.

He asks you when you are finally going to stop following your gut and you respond when the game ends. (I agree gut feeling can sometimes be your strongest ally)

And thats the end of it. I don't really understand what specifically is the case. But to answer your question as best I can.. I don't understand it, honestly. I get why you voted him in RVS; I get now why you reacted the way you did to the quicklynch attempt, what I don't get is why you drew the conclusion that Ray is scum from that bandwagon attempt. The analysis makes sense.. yes, tyhess might be town because he wanted to prolong discussion and not end the lynch, etc etc.

As for the entire time he thinks you're town. I see your point that you feel he is attacking you and trying to discredit your name INSTEAD of your case. But I have to agree that it doesn't feel like a case, maybe more an assortment of points against him. I think it's interesting though he says here that you don't have a case to argue because it isn't correct. I would agree that the points you bring against him are for the most part correct, but his opinion of scumhunting may be different than ours. But up until #265, he was posting mostly fluff IMO.

here you make a good point but I think his response is fairly decent. I seriously hope we would not be lynching someone on page 11, I am a strong advocate for discussion. But he should definitely have been on his game the entire time, thats for sure.

(By the way, thanks for making me do this. I seriously am seeing things in a different light this evening. Your tunneling of him is making a LOT more sense to me now xD)

So you thought in addition to all your points his reads made no sense and he doesn't understand because you hadn't commented on them, you'd been focused on him. You assert that specifically, his town read of you doesn't make sense and he responds that he thinks your analysis of post-bandwagon gave him good vibes. Then you ask him to comply again by providing scumhunting quotes or completed scum games and he says no, again.

I think his assessment that you are town is understandable, not everyone OMGUS's. I don't think someone should be expected to suspect you because you suspect them. It does kind of leave you wondering, though - you had honestly been focusing so very much on him, and so little on your reads of other people, is that one post of yours really enough to convince him you are town?

IDK, something is not quite adding up. I want to hear what whisper has to say, she has a clean head on her shoulders.

[blindfaeth]

that is basically, again, my way of rambling on without answering a question. But that helped me a lot ^^ And I think I understand you and your posts better. For now I will send my vote his way and bring him to L-2 because I agree something is not quite right. But I don't think we should be quick to lynch him or anyone else, we have PLENTY of time, srsly. And if I have the time tomorrow I wanted to do an ISO on BB because I had a gut scummy feeling. ^^

unvote Thor;
vote Ray

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Seeing you online down at the bottom of the screen, BB, reminded me to respond to your question.

I don't want you to act more anti-town lol. The only people acting are the scum, everyone else is just being themselves. "Anti-town" behavior or ideas are subjective. My gut was telling me that you were trying too hard to appear townie instead of actually being one. Let's see what I think tomorrow :p

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That's not exactly the response from CMPunk I was expecting, I was maybe hoping for even an acknowledgement of the votes received? >.>;

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Sorry for my absence today~ I simply don't have the time for the BB iso

Yoohoo, whisper.. where are you?? You are making me so incredibly nervous....

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Alright here goes. I will try my best to explain what did not sit well with me. Keep in mind that I think/agree that the majority of BB's thoughts/ideas etc are pro-town, it is just a creeping feeling that he is trying too hard to appear noble/townie or whatever.

Hi everyone

Could someone explain this seemingly random policy lynch for DeityKabuto?

If possible I'd like to avoid a policy lynch, as generally it's a wasted lynch that the town gains nothing from.

Also, just so I know a bit about everyone:
1. What's your prior experience with Mafia at this site? At others Sites? With other players in this game?
2. If a Seer found a werewolf on the first night, would it be better to claim and get a werewolf lynched or not claim and hope they can find the other werewolf before they are killed?

You don't have to answer these, but it'd be much appreciated. I just like to get to know a bit of history as well as their philosophy about a certain part of the game because it can change how I read people.

I guess I had two problems with your first post; the first being the part I bolded. (Mind you, it was difficult narrowing down why that paragraph bothered me. It just seemed like the first sentence, a "why is this policy lynch going on" was all that was necessary. But you felt the need to throw in the "the town usually doesnt benefit from policy lynches" thing.)

The second problem I had was that you didn't answer your own questions immediately thereafter. I appreciate that you complied when I asked you to do so, however.

A lot of hostility in this game.

Vote DeityKabuto

@Deity: Could you explain this for me? Voting yourself never helps anyone.

Also tyhess could you possibly get an avatar?

Post 2 - Kind of the same as above, the addition of "self votes don't ever help" just doesn't read genuinely. This and the next post just made me feel as though you were laying back and acting like you were contributing... and bringing more attention onto DK. To be fair, though, I think part of the reason this kind of thing bothers me so much is because I just find the DK suspicion so ridiculous.

Oh wow, I thought DK was playing how he was because he was new. As an experienced player, his play is extremely questionable.

VOTE: DeityKabuto

Ok so then you vote DK. Not damning, the kid could be suspicious. But I'm more quoting this as a reference for later. The real thing I have a problem with is this post:

I really am willing to take the risk of DK being a VT. I still can't even fathom his kind of play with his 1000 posts. It doesn't add up.

I think I've already said this once this game (in reference to Thor suspecting Ray), but I'll say it again and again and again - because I don't understand you people xD

Why would someone ever want to lynch a townie?

A townsperson alive is ALWAYS better than a townsperson dead, IMO. Because how I read this post was, "I think DK is scum but if he turns up VT, I'm ok with that bc he is suspicious"

I really like post #177.

We are two real life days in. We are placing pressure on other players. Not a time for anyone to be a Dumba$$ and lynch, no matter how scummy i think someone is

I don't like your philosophy in #175 tyhess. You're saying we shouldn't lynch someone, even if they are the scummiest player alive, just because we're two days in? DK isn't the scummiest player, but he is scummy. And I feel that time is irrelevent when you think someone is scum. I mean what's the point of voting DK if you're just gonna unvote before the hammer?

Keeping an eye on you tyhess.

My vote stays on DK.

This is probably the post of yours I disagree with the most. I strongly disliked post 177, and I think 175 was actually one of the few posts of tyhess that I liked! Another thing I've said before and I'll say again, I really enjoy all the extra time we have to discuss and figure things out. I know you and Thor disagree, but I don't think it was the time to hammer. The point of voting someone and bringing them close to lynch is to see how people react. Sometimes you find save so and so bandwagons, and sometimes it makes them speak more or work hard to prove why they aren't lynchworthy and you can decide from there. Claims too. Etc etc

Ok. so then here you think Thor and Ray are both town. Here, you insist that DK is bad. But then you flip and decide DK is cool. Vanish for 2 days. And decide that Ray is bad now, and DK is looking better and better. Whether or not this is a baddie move, I am extremely interested in a more detailed look into your head regarding this because it was not super thoroughly explained. I get that the back and forth you highlighted between Thor and Ray was what changed your mind. But why the changed mind on DK? Honestly I have a bad feeling it was because he wasn't on the chopping block any longer and no one was buying a hot plate of DK quick lynch.

And really, you had null reads on everyone else at that point?

Ok, I have to unexpectedly leave so I have to end this. But I'll say that additionally, kind of how Thor thinks it's weird Ray finds him town albeit suspecting him, your similar move makes me a little nervous. I'm definitely open minded and am eager to hear your response. But yeah, I did the best I could to explain why your pro town play was bothering me hope it made sense. Until later guys -

[blindfaeth]

Thanks for the response -

@The Tick, just curious why have you refrained from voting up to this point and do you have any other reads?

Still waiting to hear from whisper.... did Ray disappear too?

Having dinner with family back later

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So when's the full moon I'd like to get rid of the werewolves ASAP (:

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unvote;
vote whisper

if for nothing else than a nice little pinch to get her posting content again~

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Sorry if it came across as mean I did not mean for it to. And I know how life can get busy but I am just not used to you being so quiet. I don't think I'm being unreasonable we haven't really heard from you since Thursday.

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I thought he was at L-2 again or am I mistaken? B/c I unvoted and voted whisper? I don't have a problem switching my vote back after his response if we think he's our best shot for the day. I think everyone is tired of discussion/getting anxious for the day to end, everyone has grown pretty quiet.

[blindfaeth]

cotton candy and daffodils? o_o;

[blindfaeth]

unvote whisper;
vote Ray

I don't think my vote on whisper is doing any good presently she has stated she'll be back after the weekend and has been busy.

Ray's latest post feels more like throwing seeds to see if anything will stick and shifting suspicion around than a defense.

Alright here goes. I will try my best to explain what did not sit well with me. Keep in mind that I think/agree that the majority of BB's thoughts/ideas etc are pro-town, it is just a creeping feeling that he is trying too hard to appear noble/townie or whatever.

This is a great way to attack someone while trying to attract as little backlash as possible.

Not sure I follow why I would want backlash?

& FWIW this post confirms your opinion of Thor had changed. Because you admit it (AND you don't disagree with this point until now...)

You still find whatever lurker you're voting for more scummy though?

That's actually a good question because I'm not sure. I want to say yes because I do believe in everything I've said about Punk and I'm always wondering if blind's tendency to soften up to the players he's attacking is play style or not. But on the other hand I never believe play style is an excuse. If blind is deliberately softening up and blind is town then I think its real anti-town because it provides less of an opportunity for a player to slip to react irrationally. I'm a little bit torn but I do want to wait until Punk comes back from V/LA and says something. That will really decide whether to attack fully on Punk or blind.

My play has always been to force a wagon and reactions Day 1 and to scumhunt off them Day 2. I really don't see anything different in your Day 1 lurker hunt as far as brilliance goes, so I'm not quite sure where you think I'm failing - and I've certainly left multiple avenues open to you to prove me wrong and get me off your back. I don't know if you thought cool and distanced was going to do that for you, but clearly that just sets me off more. Maybe if you went back now and answerd some of the questions not worth interesting you could get me to turn the entire wagon around onto Sky or Faeth - y'never know.

And I think you've been doing an okay job with creating reactions. I just don't see you pressuring players who hop on mindlessly enough to really warrant respect from me at this point and faith you'll pressure them tomorrow. "Cool and distanced" isn't quite how I would describe my play style. As town, unconcerned with pressure is more like it. But let's give this another shot. Give me a couple of questions you want me to directly answer and I'll see how I can help.

As for turning a wagon onto Sky or blind I think both are great options.

Forgive me for not having a mean bone in my body I am a sweetheart and if that makes me anti-town in your book you are sadly mistaken. Both Sky and I are not "great options" because I am civvie.

[blindfaeth]

As a townsperson my priorities are as follows:

1) find the scum and eliminate them
2) do my best to ensure my own survival

Why should I carelessly attack someone and make a target on my back for a lynch if I can avoid it?

& I just think that you are being a little bit deceitful with the whole opinion change of Thor situation. But I have done my part and highlighted the post and everyone else can decide what they think, it speaks for itself.

Sky is mentioned in that section because

As for turning a wagon onto Sky or blind I think both are great options.

[blindfaeth]

and a better option than who - whisper? because I think she's town and busy, my vote wasn't even serious I just want her to come around and give her opinions.

than me? Because I know my role and I'm not a good option for the town to lynch?

[blindfaeth]

RIP Ray & Tick =/

[blindfaeth]

I don't know, but I have a hard time believing that Thor is wrong about both Ray AND I. I mean, come on, draw a name out of the hat of 11 players that aren't you and you have almost a 50/50 chance of picking a baddie lol. Then again, I thought Tick/tyhess was bad and voted for Ray in the end. But my initial gut instinct coming into the thread was to trust him and go after Thor, I am beginning to wonder if I should have stuck with it.

IDK I have to dwell on why Tick was killed I find it beneficial sometimes to try and figure out the reasoning behind it. With no protective roles in the game, you'd think someone that everyone believed to be super townie would be offed.

[blindfaeth]

lol so now you are doing a 180 on DK eh? The thing you're so upset at me over doing to Ray? xD Let's see in addition you tunneled the hell out of ray and are responsible for his lynch you even admitted it, no way in hell you are talking your way out of it now.

vote Thor

[blindfaeth]

Well, you're wrong - and probably on both counts. Wouldn't be surprised by a DonJosh/Thor scum team tbh :p

[blindfaeth]

Because my scumbuddy has been blatantly buddying me all game?
And you want to lynch me first of the pair to test if that's true?
Wooosh.

Well if you are bad, you are already WIFOMing the crap out of us. I was being kinda sarcastic but like I said I wouldn't be surprised.

- Town -

blindfaeth

- A very good townish player. Blind consistently posts his reads and provides evidence and reasoning for it all. My only thing to note is he does say one or two things every 10 posts or so that make me reread them. Like in post #492:

I don't know, but I have a hard time believing that Thor is wrong about both Ray AND I.

At first glance I thought this meant he was calling himself scum, but I think it's just how he worded it. If you could possibly clarify exactly what you meant by this that'd be great.

Basically I was WIFOMing lol. I know it doesn't mean anything to everyone else. But in my thinking, the only two people Thor have REALLY been suspicious of are Ray and myself. He was wrong about Ray, and he's wrong about me. I just find it hard to believe with his experience and play style that both of his main suspicions are incorrect. (Note that if you are on a scum team your chance of hunting someone from the other team narrows. For example, suspicions aside if he's town just picking someone at random. He's one of the 10 remaining so 5/9 chance of picking scum. If he's a werewolf he won't pursue the lynch of his buddy so he has a 3/8 chance (3 mafia, 10 townies - himself & teammate), and as a mafia 2/7 chance (2 werewolves, 10 townies - himself & 2 teammates).

[blindfaeth]

Also I think he was trying too hard to set himself up to be suspicious of me/pursue my lynch in Day 2 during Day 1 - regardless of how Ray flipped :p

[blindfaeth]

Glad to see you around whisper and sorry to hear that, had no idea.

and @ thor - sorry but that doesn't make me any less suspicious of you. I'm reading that as "You're scum regardless of whether or not you're town and deserve to be lynched." Which I expressly disagree with.

Also another difference is that I had several suspects and ultimately came to the conclusion I was reading things wrong. Well, guess what. Changed my mind again I'm sure you'll love pointing that out lol

[blindfaeth]

I disagree, I had good reason to do so and laid out my thoughts in detail. And I don't think I was being unreasonable and I was certainly not vote hopping wildly out of control or anything of the sort.

[blindfaeth]

I don't know, but I have a hard time believing that Thor is wrong about both Ray AND I. I mean, come on, draw a name out of the hat of 11 players that aren't you and you have almost a 50/50 chance of picking a baddie lol.

I'm so confused here, are you saying he's NOT wrong about you?

Or are you making some sort of weird case that Thor is scum because he's wrong twice?

I don't understand why this sentence is so hard to explain. It's clear as day. The fact people keep drawing attention to it is really fishy IMO. I've already gone into detail about it but let me do it again.

1. Thor was suspicious of Ray and I day 1.
2. Thor was wrong about Ray. Thor is wrong about me, too.
3. Thor is suspicious of me REGARDLESS of whether Ray was bad or not. First he thought we were teammates... but then he kind of doesn't want people to know that :p

Well if you are bad, you are already WIFOMing the crap out of us. I was being kinda sarcastic but like I said I wouldn't be surprised.

Don't throw out accusations if you're not willing to stand by them.

Oh dear sweet baby Jesus. Because Thor wasn't sarcastic ALL day 1. Because I didn't BEG him to please make it apparent when he was being sarcastic. Please forgive me

Basically I was WIFOMing lol. I know it doesn't mean anything to everyone else. But in my thinking, the only two people Thor have REALLY been suspicious of are Ray and myself. He was wrong about Ray, and he's wrong about me. I just find it hard to believe with his experience and play style that both of his main suspicions are incorrect. (Note that if you are on a scum team your chance of hunting someone from the other team narrows. For example, suspicions aside if he's town just picking someone at random. He's one of the 10 remaining so 5/9 chance of picking scum. If he's a werewolf he won't pursue the lynch of his buddy so he has a 3/8 chance (3 mafia, 10 townies - himself & teammate), and as a mafia 2/7 chance (2 werewolves, 10 townies - himself & 2 teammates).

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, though.

If you mean he's deliberately targeting townies: why? We're in multiscum, he'd have a whole other scum team to hunt.

If you mean he's mistakenly targeting townies: being wrong is not a scumtell. It's even less of a scumtell if you agree with his case against Ray, which you presumably did since you yourself were on the wagon.

I don't think he is deliberately targeting townies. Obviously if you are scum its in your best interest to hunt the other team to make you appear more townie and blend in. But he isn't being objective in his reads, he's just completely convinced that I am bad, just like he was convinced Ray was. As a townie your job is not to tunnel someone to death it is to ask all the hard questions and get dirty and find out the truth. Which he is not doing.

Also I think he was trying too hard to set himself up to be suspicious of me/pursue my lynch in Day 2 during Day 1 - regardless of how Ray flipped :p

Finding you suspicious Day 1 and voting you Day 2 isn't a scumtell, it's consistency.

Consistency isn't a towntell

unvote Thor;
vote CMPunk

As much as I want to see Thor lynched, I find myself agreeing with BB & very much not trusting Thor, theFool, and CMPunk. We need the numbers to avoid a mislynch so I'm going with the ppl I trust for the time being.

Also, looking forward to hearing from whisper when she has the time to give opinions & whatnot I'm really missing her feedback a lot

[blindfaeth]

idk CMPunk I'm not buying your suspicions because the reasons you've listed re: suspicion of DK are pretty much the same things I am doing. But yet you neglect to mention me as suspicious for the same thing?

Sorry I wasn't around today it is my mother's bday. Also I will let everyone know as soon as I do, but to let you know in advance, I am expecting a possible job offer next week (right now I'm only interning) and may be less available than I am now.

[blindfaeth]

If I weren't allowed to change my mind the website wouldn't allow us to unvote

[blindfaeth]

by the by, I was wondering if anyone else found this as curious as I did. Read Thor's signature - no wait, let me quote it in case he gets any cute ideas about removing it

Total # of times 'You're better than this' or a variation thereof, has been used as a scumtell against me = 18 (and counting)

And then read this post and let me know if you think its strange Thor hasn't called him out.

[blindfaeth]

K so since his role hasn't been revealed yet how can you add him to the list of people that were scum that said that to you? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding >.>

[blindfaeth]

Well what else could it mean? Scumtell in my experience means it's a sure thing. So are you saying him saying that "you're better than this" therefore accusing you of being scum is correct?

[blindfaeth]

It is only my second game on this site, we don't use that term at all on my native site. We never call people scum at all its just "mafia" >.> So if I do not understand it correctly it would be awesome if you explained it correctly?

[blindfaeth]

K so since his role hasn't been revealed yet how can you add him to the list of people that were scum that said that to you? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding >.>

Mmmm? You're seriously misunderstanding something.

1. Nowhere in my sig does it suggest that it's keeping track of scum who do that.

2. If you DID believe that it was only a list about scum who did that...why does it matter that I didn't call out havingfitz on it?

The fact that you have that counter in your quote is an indication that you dislike that particularly weak method of suspecting someone used against you. Or at least thats how I interpreted it. So I thought you'd go out of your way to show some irritation with it, does that make sense?

I'm also not really following the 2 groups of 3 thing Thor is talking about. I understand it but I don't know where he's pulling the numbers from as far as its likely that so many jumped on at the beginning and so many jumped on at the end. They could have been all of the first votes as far as we know especially if they are on different teams?

[blindfaeth]

except you made it clear that you called him out after he'd done it twice? >.>

[blindfaeth]

Thor, I have no idea what question you're referring to, neither do I care lol... I'm not intentionally saying two opposite things and I certainly am not hoping people don't notice because I have absolutely nothing to hide and I'm not concerned about covering my tracks. Are you suspicious of anyone else? If so, start tunneling them because you're wrong about me and I'm tiring of your instigations.

[blindfaeth]

@blindfaeth - how about you answer #2 and then I'll explain my sig to you; to restate my questions;

1. Nowhere in my sig does it suggest that it's keeping track of scum who do that.

2. If you DID believe that it was only a list about scum who did that...why does it matter that I didn't call out havingfitz on it?

@Blindfaeth - here's the core of my questions yet again.

You called me out for not calling out havingfitz.
When I pointed out I had, you called me out for calling him scum before his flip.
PLEASE - point out where I'm wrong in all this, I would love to see it.

You aren't wrong. btw those aren't questions those are statements. But just like you thought I was scum regardless of whether Ray came back bad, I think you are, too.

In my other game, the mod found a temporary replacement for me. Maybe you could do that, Shadow? Just until I get back.

As for faeth, he's been real scummy the last few pages, and since kondi never posted, it's really all we have. Lynching faeth would be fine, too.

If you people seriously decide to lynch me today, just please, lynch Thor tomorrow. Because seriously,

how many times are you going to let him be wrong before you're willing to accept the fact he's probably deceiving you?

Anyway if you are not ready to lynch Thor I suggest we lynch CMPunk.

[blindfaeth]

Wait, Thor thinks CM might be scum?

unvote CMPunk

[blindfaeth]

Regardless of whether you're scum or townie your suspicions track record is 0 for 2, that's more the reason... you remind me of someone from my other forum. I listen to everything he says and do the exact opposite usually because he's always wrong

But if you insist

vote Thor

[blindfaeth]

Yes that's exactly what I was doing TheFool. Keep twisting things to your benefit, it shows your true colors =]

[blindfaeth]

BB's vote change doesn't read scummy to me at all bc we are 2/3 into the day and are getting to the point where we need to lynch someone. I can tell people are getting anxious. Plus, he's voting Thor, so how bad could it be?

Oh Sky's recent post flew me for a loop, I like how he called just about everyone scum xD or at least, doesn't have any town reads at all - just leaning town. I don't think I agree with most of the reads Sky posted so I in turn don't trust Sky very much. *shrug*

[blindfaeth]

Seriously TheFool are you kidding? I didn't spend the first half of Day 1 arguing back and forth with Thor or anything lol. Him being wrong is just a bonus

[blindfaeth]

@Whisper - I know that comparing play styles to other games can be valuable, but in this case the circumstances are very different. One difference being that I had a power role in that game. Day 1, I tried to play very low to avoid getting lynched or NKed so I could investigate someone Night 1. Then, when DK came back good I had to become more vocal to make sure he wasn't lynched. From then on, I checked the two remaining scum - so the sense of "confidence" you saw is merely a reflection of my receiving those PMs. Plus, I had to fight hard because a mislynch was the end of the game and I couldn't sit idly by and let them win.

Not only that but this game there are two, independent groups of scum. I assure you I am good and can only hope to put your suspicions to rest <3

[blindfaeth]

Oh and there goes Thor again with the OMGUS~ I'm not surprised >.>

[blindfaeth]

All I can say Thor is that you'll be singing a different tune tomorrow if you lynch me. It'll sound something like

"Boohooo please don't lynch me!!! How does leading the lynch on two townies make me bad!?!?"

But trust me I take back all the stuff I was spewing day 1, its definitely worth the risk of him turning town if he's that big of a liability to the town. Please please don't let him get away with a third

Anyway no it's not OMGUS that he was refuting the case on him it is OMGUS that he suspects everyone that suspects him.

[blindfaeth]

Hey Thor!

I just think you're better than this

And here it is in Spanish

Creo que eres mejor que esta

And in French...

Je pense juste que vous êtes mieux que cela

And German..

Ich glaube, du bist besser als diese

At least, according to Google

[blindfaeth]

Aw man DK is on V/LA ~.~

[blindfaeth]

@whisper - one of your top scum reads thefool is on my wagon now what do you think about that btw?

[blindfaeth]

just do me a favor and vote him tomorrow for his tunneling today AND yesterday

[blindfaeth]

I hate to say it but a no lynch might be just what we need, maybe the werewolves will get rid of a mafia for us. There would be a 3 in 7 chance after all, and if you're going to lynch me there's a 0 in 10 chance I'll come back scum -

As for the giant case, I simply don't have enough time to make one at this point sorry. You sure waited a long time to ask for it lol... I'll certainly attempt one if I'm still alive tomorrow. But this is probably the last time I'll be around before the deadline.

So if you lynch me, please lynch Thor tomorrow to avenge me once you know I'm innocent~
Otherwise hopefully I hope I'll see everyone in the morning on Day 3! xoxo