Open 284: Tit for Tat (Over)

[Uite]

Really, ConSpiracy, you want to no-lynch? Why on Earth do you think that's a good idea?

[Uite]

Oops, forgot to add my vote:

VOTE: ConSpiracy

[Uite]

Tell me why you chose Shattered Viewpoint over AurorusVox, since you seem to be simply hopping on the biggest wagon.

[Uite]

So yeah, lots to respond to. Unfortunately, I'm a bit pressed for time right now, so I'll have to get back to it tonight. Expect a more detailed post then.

[Uite]

Ugh, I can't do a full analysis of what's happened so far right now. There's a lot of good stuff here, but trying to digest it makes my head hurt too much. It's late and I'm tired, so I'll keep it to the more immediate stuff. I'll keep the actual analysis for later. It'll come though, don't worry about that.

First off, asking people to explain themselves does not mean that the person doing so is automatically scum.

Tell me why you chose Shattered Viewpoint over AurorusVox, since you seem to be simply hopping on the biggest wagon.

Huh? Why would he necessarily choose AV? He gives a reason for voting SV. Do you not agree with it? Why are you trying to paint it like he's just "hopping on the biggest wagon"? This seems forced.

What it looked like to me was that the two seemed pretty much equal, both having people on their case, so I was curious why the reasoning for Shattered Viewpoint held up in his opinion, while the reasoning for AurorusVox didn't.

Uite tried to get us out of the RVS, just as others did. Nothing scummy about it.

Exactly.

Everyone not voting should either do so or explain why they're not. I still believe in the page 3 scum lynch.

Just noting that everyone was already voting at that point. Sloppy.

@RC i cannot write much so i try to keep it simple but turns out too simple, and of course i should read my posts to check if it makes sense. Most of the time im on my phone and its quite difficult for me to write.

Please don't play from your phone. From what I've seen, it takes away your ability to look back and reflect on what's happening, which lead to bad play. This goes for everyone, btw.

Uite and Shattered: Thoughts of each other's and aah's wagon/scummyness?

I'm undecided about Shattered Viewpoint so far. As for aaah400, he does seems somewhat scummy to me. Especially the spiel with Cogito Ergo Sum, who seems even worse for this. It feels staged to me.

I think Uite, with FOUR WHOLE POSTS, is likely a scumlurker.

Nope, just got really busy the past few days. It should clear up next week; vacation, yay!

[Uite]

First off, I'm visiting my parents this weekend, so I probably won't be able to post again till Monday. However, as I've mentioned before, I have next week off, so I should have plenty of time to go in-depth then.

What it looked like to me was that the two seemed pretty much equal, both having people on their case, so I was curious why the reasoning for Shattered Viewpoint held up in his opinion, while the reasoning for AurorusVox didn't.

This isn't much of a response. I'll hold out for your promised analysis. As I said, CS had a reason for voting SV. Did you or did you not agree with it? You completely dodged my questions.

The reason itself was fairly meh, just standard RVS fare, though the fact that he was blatantly sheeping DRK, combined with both wagons seeming fairly equal to me, prompted me to question him on it.

[Uite]

My next post will probably be the big post you've all been waiting for. This is just catching up however, and I'll get started on the analysis right after this. I can already tell it's going to take several hours, so please be patient. I really hope to get it done tonight, but otherwise I'll finish it tomorrow. Of course, since I'll be on for the next couple of hours, if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!

Also, anyone who claims that I'm lurking can suck it; I've posted on average every 24 hours. That's not lurking by any stretch if the imagination.

Anyway, on to current affairs: aaah400's long post is really bad. It's a lot of words, but he doesn't actually say anything. It's just a big pile of IoA. The fact that he concludes with a bunch of FoSes, (more than there are scum in this game!) but actually unvotes is also very bad.

[Uite]

Vote - Uite

ive been waiting for Uite's bug post and its not coming.

It is coming. It's just that I keep getting distracted, and as a result, my pace is excruciatingly slow. Sorry about that.

And of course

Anyway, on to current affairs: aaah400's long post is really bad. It's a lot of words, but he doesn't actually say anything. It's just a big pile of IoA. The fact that he concludes with a bunch of FoSes, (more than there are scum in this game!) but actually unvotes is also very bad.

what is this?. And i have stated that i couldnt keep up so i had to summarize on the way. and of course ill believe u have just skim read it without reading it in depth

That may be true, but that doesn't take away what you actually did, which is post a summary of the game so far, without analysis, reducing the value of that particular post to zero. And what compelled you to post it anyway, when it is not actually contributing anything?

[Uite]

Oh so im on L-1, I claim my self to be Vanilla townie

This is ridiculous. If my count is correct, you only have four votes, from Cogito Ergo Sum, AurorusVox, Shattered Viewpoint and mothrax.

[Uite]

@aaah400

The lack of awareness of your own actions you're displaying here is startling. I really don't know what to think of it. For most of the game you haven't had your vote on anyone, though your initial random vote on silverbullet999 stayed for a while. Other than that, you've only briefly had your vote on me, SV and now CES.

You really can't keep your story straight at all, which means that you're just making everything up as you go along, which means that you are scum.

VOTE: aaah400

P.S. I'm still not progressing very fast with my reread, I'm now on page 6. Watch this space for updates.

[Uite]

Uite - where the hell is your catch up vote going to? And same thing as above with your name changed with CES.

Like I said, it's going very slowly, because I'm reading closely, taking a lot of notes along the way. The fact that I keep getting distracted doesn't help either, and just reading one page can take more than an hour at my pace and that is when I'm actually looking at the thread. Still, I'm on the 8th page of my notebook right now, so yeah, once it's done, it's going to be worth it.

[Uite]

You misunderstand. I'm not catching up, I've read everything so far, and am pretty much current on things. What I

am

doing is re-reading, and trying to see if I can find stuff that isn't immediately obvious. For that, I need a detailed

analysis

of what's going on, which I haven't seen to much of so far, though there is definitely plenty to go on.

[Uite]

-Con

Interesting. Can you link that newbie game? I'd like to take a look in it.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14261

Heh, that was my very first game on site, and I don't think it's all that accurate for my play. My wiki has a nice list of all my games. My more recent games are a lot more relevant.

[Uite]

That's true, and I'm working on it. To give you an indication of both the rigour and the slow pace at which I'm doing this, I've got three more pages in my notebook written today, though it's only about half a forum page.

[Uite]

I wish I could. My pace has been highly variable, but mostly slow. If my memory serves me right, the later pages are a little less packed, and I feel I can make good progress tonight though. I might be able to get up to page 10 or so, I think.

[Uite]

That's nice. In the meantime, could you tell us who you're actually looking at for scum right now?

[Uite]

So you don't really have suspects, despite there being plenty to go on.

For instance, what do you think of the aaah400 wagon? It sorta featured in your discussion with DemonHybrid, but you never really commented on it.

[Uite]

Yeah, a bit of reasoning would be appreciated, since you spoke out in favour of it earlier on.

*Supports the ... (what's aaah's wagon called?)*

Why the change of heart?

[Uite]

Gotcha. Interestingly, SV is claiming the opposite, based on more or less the same reasoning. What about that?

[Uite]

ConSpiracy's death is very odd. Consider that there are

two

compulsive killers in the game, yet there is only one dead body. Because the Jailkeeper is currently a scum role ConSpiracy had to have been killed by scum. This can mean one of several things:

• Both the scum and the Vig targeted the same person
• The Vig's target was protected by the Jailkeeper
• The Vig himself was targeted by the Jailkeeper

Which one of these it is, I'm not sure of, though each of the scenarios has their own interesting implications.

I already gave the mod a piece of my mind and I'm not going to clutter the thread rehashing reasons, but that modkill was absolutely terrible.

Modkill was indeed terrible. There's no reason to ban spoiler tags.

I third this motion. Spoiler tags don't actually hide any information.

vote:Uite he did want to lynch CS throughout the game until he wanted to hop on the wagon which the wagon was me. im still watching CES and SV

Interesting. While it's true that my vote was on CS for a good part of Day 1, I wasn't actively calling for his lynch. CES on the other hand, was very vocal about getting you lynched for the entire game past RVS. So why does that make me more likely scum than him?

VOTE: aaah400

[Uite]

Tell me if you find any mistakes here, because I believe my logic is sound. Basically, this is my reasoning:

1. We know that
2. Both the Vigilante and the scum have made a shot. They can't not shoot according to their role PM's, though the target may be random.
   
3. Only ConSpiracy, who is town, was killed Night 1
   
4. The Vigilante is town
   
5. The Jailkeeper is scum

1 and 2 mean that either the vig and scum targeted the same player, or something happened to prevent one kill. Otherwise, there would have been two deaths. Since the Jailkeeper is scum, and in all likelyhood they would want to kill somebody, they would not jailkeep their nightkill target or the one to submit their nightkill. This means that the scumkill will simply go through. From the fact that we have only one corpse, ConSpiracy, that means the scum

must

have targeted him.

As for what happened to the vig's kill, that's less straightforward, but we do know there has been only one kill, which like I said earlier, can have basically two causes: either he targeted the same player as the scum, or something messed with his shot. In case it's the former, that raises the question why CS would be an attractive target to both. If it's the latter, there are again two options, due to the jailkeeper being the only role able to mess with kills, but his ablity being two-fold. The options are that either the vig was blocked, or his target was protected. Unfortunately, at this point, it's impossible to deduce which of these two latter scenarios is the truth if the former isn't what actually happened.

I'm not voting till I see a votecount, and I'm too lazy/busy to do one myself.

Unofficial votecount coming right up!

• [
  3
  ]
  Shattered Viewpoint
  ~
  DeathRowKitty
  ,
  Riceballtail
  ,
  RedCoyote
  
  [
  3
  ]
  aaah400
  ~
  Cogito Ergo Sum
  ,
  AurorusVox
  ,
  Uite
  
  [
  1
  ]
  Uite
  ~
  aaah400
  
  
  Not voting:
  BlenBlen
  ,
  DemonHybrid
  ,
  don_johnson
  ,
  Shattered Viewpoint

[Uite]

@Mod:

May the Mafia submit "No Kill"? May the Vig submit "No Kill"?

The wording of the PM says "may" -- so I'm wondering if they submit No Kill if a target will be randomized anyway.

I hadn't considered that possibility, so I'd like to know as well. I do think it's a lot more likely for the Vig to no-kill, but even that seems unlikely to me, since there are plenty if valid targets, in my opinion.

[Uite]

Do you have any reasons we shouldn't?

[Uite]

@mod:

I'm fairly sure that with 11 players alive, it's 6 to lynch. Also, silverbullet999 seems to suffer from a case of modkilled.