Open 194- Vengeful Reasons- GAME OVER!

[Jackabomb]

Hi budja. Now, the first thing I'm going to do is...

Claim: Serial Killer

With that out of the way:

Vote: Memorable Raindrops,

because when it rains, the town can't have a lynch, because they're all inside. This is an obvious scumtell.

[Jackabomb]

Why, budja, you of all people should know

precisely

what I'm talking about.

Yes, I have indeed changed my playstyle(I hope) and I do offer an apology if you'd like one.

[Jackabomb]

Personally, I find it hard to believe that you've seen or made a worse play than claiming serial killer in a semi-open setup that can't possibly have one and then standing by your claim for an entire page.

[Jackabomb]

By "new playstyle", I only mean "significantly improved since the game I linked to. This color is how I usually write, In the rare case that the mod rules allow it.

[Jackabomb]

I wouldn't say this has ground to halt, per say, but...not a lot of activity other than us.

Tracker, you should know by know how often lynch-all-lurkers is safe, right?
It never works for me. Why didn't you follow up your suspicions with a vote? It would have only been L-2, I think.

I find it interesting. Lynch all lurkers is rather weak. The Tracker has already had a decent thrashing for it in NG 892. I seem to remember that you dissect things a bit more than that budja.

[Jackabomb]

Right now, a better start would be to prod angel, emp, cat, and rain. I'm surprised they even confirmed. I think 3 days is the normal time players can go without posting. Until we get one more person, we can't even enforce LAL if we wanted to, which I find ironically funny.

[Jackabomb]

With all the lurking, RVS ended after the first cycle of budja/jack/tracker-only posts.

Wishy-washy, want (suggest anyway) pressure without responsibility. Better than a lurker vote.

Are you suggesting that she is attempting to set up a mislynch? What precisely do you mean?

[Jackabomb]

First of all, Tracker, do you plan on removing your vote or do you have a reason?

random vote: Jackabomb

Ha!

What on earth are you

thinking

?
RVS is over. Been that way. Pay attention and figure out what in the world you think your doing before we lynch the living daylights out of you.

[Jackabomb]

Emp, you wanted budja and I to talk you into a MR lynch:

-Total Lurking(not posting at all)
-No excuse whatsoever
-Random Vote well past RVS
-^indication that (s)he may not have read the game thread before posting.

[Jackabomb]

I'm becoming relatively interested in this little tracker vs. Emp encounter. I, for one, can easily think of a perfectly acceptable explanation if I were in his shoes, but he has yet to realize it himself. That's the only reason I'm starting to look into this. I thought the explanation was so obvious, it would blow over quickly, but things are looking different.

Right now, MR is still looking more suspicious because I have a few scumtells on him(her). Lynching someone with scumtells is better than lynching a passive lurker, aka cat.

[Jackabomb]

As near as I can tell, cat's only scumdar indications are lurking, right?

We aren't lynching all lurkers. We'll lynch an active today. Not now, certainly, but when we do lynch, it needs to be an active player, that is someone who has posted as recently as page 2.

The current suspicions are:

EmpTyger suspects Tracker and Cat
Budja suspect Angelmouse
Tracker suspects EmpTyger and Memorable Raindrops
Jackabomb suspects Memorable Raindrops
Memorable Raindrops suspects Jackabomb
Cat suspects No One
Angelmouse suspects EmpTyger.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jackabomb]

I'm surprised to find out how grossly wrong I was with the suspicions. Also, I believe I misspoke. I mean, I thought I knew why tracker was tunneling on MR and not suspecting cat that I am surprised he has not mentioned. I had thought he had done that because cat, at least had posted. Guess I'm wrong about that too. You guys are going to make me depressed.

Anyway, you guys say cat is posting actively in other topics? (S)He may have forgotten about this game. Personally, I suspect MR more for his RV well past RVS and then disappearing again. Are there any other suspicions besides on the lurkers? I'm not going to try getting a grip of everybody's suspicions again.

[Jackabomb]

*sigh*
No, not really tracker. It's just the term I chose to use to exemplify my confusion over why you chose MR over cat. You seriously have to stop exploding every time someone says something about you that isn't along the lines of, "Tracker is the most pro-town player and awesome person in the world. I would never lynch him!"

Now, down to business.

Memorable Raindrops, what are you talking about? Too early for what?

[Jackabomb]

Tracker, did you read my post at all? It specifically states that I'm not accusing you of tunneling. Pay attention and don't let you sudden explosiveness cloud your reading.

[Jackabomb]

MR:
How does not posting- and allowing a significant number of players in the game to also not contribute- help you be more sure of who's innocent or who's guilty?

It doesn't?

There in lies the problem.


As for you tracker, your example gives a choice between two polar options, insinuating that there is no middle ground. There is. The "explosiveness" with which one responds to an attack is a tricky thing to get right. Not too much as to be over-defensive or rude, but not so little that you wind up acting like a timid little mouse. Different attacks also have different levels of appropriate response.

Back to what started all this. I thought tracker's vote on MR was random, wasn't it? If so, no explanation is truly required. Not at the scale it's being taken to now, anyway.

[Jackabomb]

and Mafia isn't exactly a nice relaxing romp through the woods with the magical sunshine animal friends game.

Which is why we townies are lynching scum to change that.

Well, since this is America I'm just going to play as I've been playing, because that's how I roll. USA! USA!

Are you insinuating that you will ignore the mass opinion of the town and site, for that matter, regarding scumtells and basic human decency just because you're an American? [sarcasm]Paints a wonderful picture of America, I must say.[/sarcasm]

@Jack, why not a lurker? You don't seem to have answered that one.

I didn't? How tragic. I shall correct it. I mean that lynching a scummy active is better than lynching a lurker because the scummy active has had interactions with people. That gives us information. Their playstyle, how they flip, who targeted them, who they targeted, who felt what regarding them, who disregarded them? Surprising, isn't it?
Now with a lurker lynch:

"So now what? Cat was town."
"Well who did Cat attack? Who attacked Cat?"
"Nobody. Cat didn't post."
"Oh"

Okay, that's your opinion. Obviously I haven't swayed it, but hell, I may as well give one more crack at it

I don't like where this looks to be going. I read it as a "well that's your opinion. You have yours, I have mine, we agree to disagree, and any arguments you brought up are null and void because we don't share the same opinions", sort of thing, which is blatantly anti-town.

[Jackabomb]

Yet you also missed the prod? What do you know? MR "forgot" about this game too. I wonder if that tells us anything?

[Jackabomb]

Tracker you need to start reading my

entire

post. I said "where this looks to be

going

."

I'm not changing my play style to suit the whims of the majority.

That doesn't give you leave to be rude and over-reactive(which is normally a function of attitude as far as rudeness).

[Jackabomb]

If cat or MR had a decent excuse, say "I was in the hospital after my house was bombed by a terrorist", things would be different. "I forgot", was a pathetic excuse for your homework, and it's not going to work any better here. Still, how interesting to note, that they both happened to "forget".

[Jackabomb]

But Jackabomb's comparison of Memorable Raindrops and I forgetting as a scumtell is stupid. What were we doing? Illegally talking to each other in the day? Try again, please.

If I called your forgetfulness a scumtell, it's news to me. I'll ask you not to jump to conclusions.

[Jackabomb]

At this point, angel, neither cat nor MR would be lynched only for lurking, if they were lynched at all. MR made a really lousy move by "not realizing" that we had already gone through a 2(?) pages of discussion. Cat, has...well, cat's case rather speaks for itself I think.

[Jackabomb]

Play more newbie games, read the wiki, look for and seek constructive feedback, learn from past mistakes, and listen to advice.

[Jackabomb]

Remember, it isn't inherently bad if you get lynched. In fact, if you're playing to improve your game, it tells you, clear as day what not to do. Next time someone calls your play "terrible" or "clueless" make them tell you why and what you can do to change it. If you listen and take action, you won't go wrong.

[Jackabomb]

I fail to see the much acclaimed wishy washy pattern that angel has somehow exhibited.

[Jackabomb]

Oh. Wow. Um...second paragraph, you, uh, didn't do too nicely there angel.

Although, I'd still sooner lynch cat or MR.

[Jackabomb]

I already said that neither MR nor Cat is suspicious only for lurking. They've committed other 'crimes' too.

[Jackabomb]

Okay. I'm downright sick of cat and MR. To me they both look very suspicious and as of now, I am officially advocating the death of one of them. I could actually care less which one.

[Jackabomb]

Any particular reason not cat? Just wondering, especially in light of this:

Hm...I'd probably be more comfortable with a Cat lynch myself. MR is gone off the face of the Earth now, so I'd rather hang on and wait to see if she posts a defense. Cat's been lurking and basically came on with half-baked attacks that made less sense than Bill Clinton at an abstinence convention.

What changed your mind?

[Jackabomb]

Budja:
I think I’ve been getting that same vibe from Jack. I *know* I’ve been getting the same lag though, and I’m out of time tonight. Will look into tomorrow.

I don't really see how you could. I haven't really changed my stances since the game began, not that there was any negating evidence. In case you don't know, opportunistic is one of those accusations that I'm a little bit sensitive to. Budja may be able to tell you more(hint hint: Claim SK)

Also, I'm seems like everyone is buddying with budja.

[Jackabomb]

It isn't a specific accusation or suspiscion, but I get the odd feeling that everyone agrees with budja.

Tracker, I've told you before. READ my post. I said "What changed your mind?" as in, "why?"

[Jackabomb]

I'd like more input and opinion from budja, angel, and cat regarding the possible MR lynch. Also, if no one has any objections, I'd like MR to claim.

[Jackabomb]

Even if MR turns out not to be here, I still like her(?) lynch. You may say this violates my anti-LAL policy, but not so. The point of that policy is to allow for sufficient interaction that will provide information. She has posted too much to remain under the protection of policy. I'll give Cat a freebie for now, though I don't think the mod should cut her anymore slack. I don't want her to keep disappearing. Not a scumtell, it's just annoying.

I think the angel case has validity to it, but it puts more stock into one post than I think is good.

[Jackabomb]

I'm going to have a tough time of believing that claim. Since you are a dead man tomorrow regardless of what we do, what is your result?

Everyone, do you believe his claim? If not, do you think the real cop should counter-claim? Why/why not for both questions?

[Jackabomb]

I don't really mind anymore. The plan for MR makes sense and I say we follow it.

I wish other people would post about this.

[Jackabomb]

Just becuase he's "a liability" doesn't justify lynching him. Lynches are based on scumminess, not a person's usefulness. I'm fine with lynching angel.

Emp, Why is cat suspicious?

Unvote: Memorable Raindrops

[Jackabomb]

If he's fakeclaiming, we'll find out tomorrow. I'm willing to stand behind an angel lynch at this point. This is FTC.

Vote: Angelmouse

[Jackabomb]

Fascinating. The moment I sent my vote up on angel, I thought "Watch her claim doc when it's her turn."

Stop being so darn scummy when you're PR's(if you really are)

I'm at a loss for what to do, but until I can think through this,

Unvote: Angelmouse

[Jackabomb]

Is it alright to ask for doc and or cop cc's?

[Jackabomb]

Is that a serious accusation? If so, on what in the world are you basing it on?

[Jackabomb]

I want to see if anyone wants to cc to cop and or doc before we lynch today.

[Jackabomb]

I think we should have the doc counterclaim. Not an "if you wish".
I too am not buying angel's claim. I'm not sure about MR.

[Jackabomb]

Forgot cat. She's already gone through one phase of lurking. Why bring her back so she can do it again? Just replace her. There is time yet.

[Jackabomb]

May I assume you are our backup mod or something?

[Jackabomb]

Have you never thought that scum might leave them alive to get an easy mislynch the next day?

[Jackabomb]

I'm not the doc either. Now you see why we need a replacement for cat ASAP.

[Jackabomb]

Oh, hey! I just realized our mod lives in Texas. So do I.

[Jackabomb]

To snail:
"I don't like..."
"I don't like..."
"I don't like..."
"I don't like..."
"...feels wrong to me..."
What's with the negative waves, Moriarity?

Get your facts straight. I was asking for doc cc's and such. I never said we should lynch either one, although I said I wouldn't be particularly adverse to it. Also, what makes you think I'm 'opportunistic'?

[Jackabomb]

'Jumped on?"
I was the first to vote MR.

"willing to lynch both claimed PR's?"
I'm sorry, evidently you missed my unvotes on them immediately after they claimed.

Oh, and does your gut have to be so negative?

[Jackabomb]

Tracker, what is up with you? It might be just me, but it seems to me like you're bouncing all over the place.

[Jackabomb]

/facepalm

I can't believe it. I asked for a cop result on day start???
I've been playing too much EpicMafia.

[Jackabomb]

Oh. HH, I can't figure out exactly what you think of everyone(particularly me). Could you rate people on a town-ness scale of 1 through ten?

[Jackabomb]

As far as HH and ES's accusations against me, I hope you'll all forgive me for not really wanting to defend myself for something I did weeks ago.

As scummy as angel was, it seems to me we have a clear doc.

Also. Everyone who accuses me of rebuking tracker then voting MR for the same reasons: My first vote on MR was random. It was then enforced by scumtells(the best available at the time).

I never 'ended' RVS. RVS ended itself. I only made sure everyone knew.

[Jackabomb]

One of these days I really am going to reread for you.

Given your proven skill, that's likely to either make or break me as pro-town.

I know I look totally lame for a vote without any reasons of my own, but Emp summed it all up about evilsnail. I for one, don't need much more convincing.

Vote: Evilsnail

[Jackabomb]

I've been recently distracted by various things, not to mention being sick yesterday. Thus, it has been a while since last I checked this thread. I am quite overwhelmed and will have to do a thorough reread. Right now the only thing I can comprehend is the emp doesn't really like some of my recent actions?

[Jackabomb]

Hackerhuck, seems to me that he just wanted to make sure ness wasn't planning to unclaim just like evil over here.

/gesture to 'the poor guy in the corner'

[Jackabomb]

Jack is town. His attacks and participation on the MR wagon look legit.

Why are my attacks on MR okay....

Emp's attacks on MR are null/little town. He was less enthusiastic about a MR as so much as a lurker lynch.

...but not emp's?

Also, I'd like to congratulate the scum on their very spiffy(for them) nightkill.
But I'd like to congratulate the scum even more for letting us lynch your buddy D1.
Did you know I've

never

seen a D1 scumlynch before? Thank you for broadening my horizon...at the expense of your life.

[Jackabomb]

Sorry everyone, my computer was taken away from me for a while. It's back for now, though.

First of all, evilsnail provided a very good argument for his innocence. For a time, I even questioned my own vote. The only thing that made me leave it was his continuous use of an alleged WIFOM defense. Not voting evil does not make budja scum.

I was in a rut.

That is far too easy of an excuse for me to take seriously.

Budja, your response(299) to my last post(298) is completely unsatisfactory. It directly contradicts the second quote I gave. Why are his accusations null, while mine are so very protown? They were almost the same.

[Jackabomb]

Sorry buddy. Your vote will only count once, even if you post it twice.

[Jackabomb]

I disproved one point only. It isn't my fault if that was your central pillar of reason for the case on him. I'm not saying it was either.

Emp, if budja flips town, who would be next in line?

[Jackabomb]

Everyone except Budja:
"Repeated things I've done to hinder the town don’t definitely make me mafia, therefore I'm town." And the repeated things MR/evilsnail did to hinder town made evilsnail town too, I bet.

Also, he's lying about being in this position because of "gut". Because when I gave *logical* reasons, Budja said my *reasoning* was wrong. (Not that he could say why when I pressed him, of course, since he was lying.) He was arguing that the *logical* thing to do was leave a claimed cop alive.

No, the real reason he's in this position because he thought the town wouldn't lynch evilsnail yesterday. And we did.

Could you be bothered to post some post numbers or some kind of references to where he actually said this stuff? If he truly has said that stuff, I'm more than ready to hammer him all the way back into the queue. Of course, if he flips town my prime suspect will be a certain guy by the name of emptyger.

[Jackabomb]

The only reason he wasn't on the ES lynch was because you beat him to it, hacker. I would like it if emp provided us with a list of reasons, you know: short, simple, consice, and to the point about why we should lynch budja today. As near as I can tell so far, his whole case rests on budja's lack of participation regarding the ES lynch.

[Jackabomb]

What's got your goat, emp? You're coming on

way

too hard. About everything. I just asked you to tell me why I should lynch budja. We don't have to lynch somebody right away. Just because I don't feel like lynching budja(when you've given no reason whatsoever to do so), doesn't mean it's, "You either come up with a better alternative

right this instant

or we're lynching budja!" This looks like False Dilemma.

If you want an alternative so dang badly, why don't you answer some of my questions so I can think about it.

1. Why should we lynch budja? Not piling on the ES lynch doesn't count.
2. If budja is not scum, who do you think is next?

[Jackabomb]

Yesterday, emp, there was a myraid of reasons, most of which I agreed with. Why can't you just give me a list of reasons? Is it that hard?

1.Obviously you're going to have to have a number one.
2.Hopefully you do have more than one, though, right?
3.Three would be nice, too.
4.Four reasons would be quite convincing.
5.If you get this far, you'll probably have started saying the same thing over.
6.I don't expect your case to be this big, nor do I ask it of you.
7. I think you get the picture.

Hacker, what are your thoughts?

[Jackabomb]

Why on earth are you so bent on budja's death, yet so against providing me with a reason by reason list?

[Jackabomb]

You

are the one who wants

me

to lynch budja, right?

You know what. I'll do it. I seriously don't like it, but I'm tired of emptyger badgering me and insulting me. I thought for a minute or two yesterday that I was playing with decent people. Was I wrong?

Vote: budja

[Jackabomb]

I would have totally lynched emptyger at the LYLO. Good thing hacker killed me in an attempt to frame emp. Good job guys, but you should have given reasons for your tells. Finding scum without logic is like making a lucky guess. It isn't much to be proud of.