Open 185 v2.0: JK9 (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

REPLACEMENT TO THE RESCUE!

Reading now.

[Nachomamma8]

And here's my reads, folks.

Joe/Hito:

There's not really that much to say about Joe, minus his asking to be Jailkeeped. I don't see that as a scumtell because of his experience; I made the mistake of asking for protection in my first newbie game, sooooo... yeah. Also, newbies tend to enjoy the scum role a lot more than townie role (unless, of course, they are active scumhunters), so I don't think that he would relinquish his scum role so easily.

I like Hito's play so far. He has extremely consistant content, he's active, he's inquisitive...

Read: STRONG TOWN

Chaco/Sotty

Chaco lurked. Had he still been in the game, I would've recommended a lynch.

Sotty, on the other hand, came in, guns blazing. I really don't like how confident she was in Kyle's scumminess. This is because she replaced a slot that really wasn't under too much fire in the first place, and as a mafioso member, her focus would be choosing a target that she could get lynched before too much discussion passed, and Kyle would be the perfect target to do so. She's also much more aggressive than she was in another game we played in together. However, despite all this, I'm getting a fairly strong gut town read from her based on her questioning of Kyle and Kunk; they don't give me an opportunist scum vibe.

READ: TOWN

Kyle

Kyle began the game eager to begin, wanting to lynch people who didn't post, and complaining on how slow the game was going. He seems annoyed at the lack of content, but unsure exactly WHAT to post. His scumlist was crap, and he doesn't post amazing long catch-up posts like I do. His hammer reeked of scumminess (his excuse being "vote-hopped too much"), and his "It's LyLo" threat was most definitely and AtoE.

What makes me unsure to label him guaranteed scum is the fact that he just seems like an impatient person. His constant comparing of this slow game to other games in the beginning, as well as the premature hammer, all line up with his impatient personality.

READ: SCUM

Drowmage/Kunker:

Hmm, what? Drowmage? Who's she?

Kunker is the reason I don't want to lynch Kyle.

First off, I don't like hypocrites. Especially hypocrites who come into the game denouncing rolefishers in their first post, then go on to do some heavy duty rolefishing some time later.

He seems to post in spurts as well. 5 posts in one day, no posts in 3 days. 1 post on the 72 hour mark, no posts for 6 days. 4 posts in 2 days, 1 post in 4 days. You catch my drift? This smells of a lurker scum who is waiting as long as possible before posting again, and posting a lot in one day so he can have the appearance of activity. Now, I would chalk it up to the overall inactivity of the game; however, the first post of the game throws me off. More hypocrisy? You betcha! To show you exactly what I mean by that, here's some quoting action:

Seems like lurking is the worst enemy of Town around this site.

Promptly after, he begins to lurk.

READ: STRONG SCUM


So far, I'm feeling a Kyle-Kunker scumpair or a Kunker-Sotty scumpair...

Coming up next, interactions between those three players...

[Nachomamma8]

Kyle + Kunker:

Kyle seemed a bit scummy in the beginning, but he also seemed to have a spectacular lack of a scumbuddy. That is, until kunker came along. Kunker didn't attack Kyle that much; when he did, it was halfhearted.

Take ISO 6, for example. He begins the post by stating "At this point kyle99 has dug himself a hole, and now knowing mykonian was town, his call to lynch kyle is all more valid.". Then, for the rest of the post, does he comment on Kyle at all? No.

He also tries to deflect the vote to other people a lot. When Qoop was active and posting, he emphasized his strong town read on her/him. When she/he began to fall into inactivity, he emphasized his Qoop town read again (twice, actually), then mentions what he found to be a scumtell against him/her. Sometime later, he mentions another Qoop town read, and yet another "oddity". This inconsistancy is extremely confusing to me, especially when it's in the same post...

[Nachomamma8]

Kunker+Sotty:

This scumpair is here because of my tenative read on Sotty, and Kunker & Sotty's "Who's Kyle's scumpartner?" argument, and because Sotty doesn't belong with anyone else. She's hammering too hard on Kyle, and Hito and I are town. In other words, this is a scumpair based on process of elimination.

[Nachomamma8]

Why wouldn't Sotty and Kyle be a logical extension of those theories as well Nacho? I know you stated that Sotty was hammering too hard on Kyle, but couldn't it be an attempt at bussing a scumpal?

5-2 LyLo is extremely good odds for a Mafisios(o? a?). All she needs is one more townie lynch, and she wins. So why would she come in with the first play of the game with Kyle as her first target when she doesn't even have a partner figured out for Kyle? I am pretty sure a smart Mafiosa wouldn't leave her partner out to dry like that.

Kunker, do you have any comments on my case against you?

Would really like to hear more from Kyle and Hito.

[Nachomamma8]

Right now, I want Kyle to make a post defending himself, then I say we go for his lynch. The fact that he still isn't posting proves Hito's point, very, very well.

[Nachomamma8]

-Every single person kunkstar has voted has flipped town.

Every flip we've gotten has been of a townie, so do you think that this evidence is too compelling?

Vote: kyle99

Not impressed by your case at all.

[Nachomamma8]

First of all, and I think this goes without saying,

DON'T VOTE UNTIL YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY SURE

. If you do, our chances of winning die out completely.

@Kunker: My read on Hito is still town. My read on you is still scum. Why shouldn't we lynch you today?

In order to help you answer that, here are some questions:

Why is Hito scum?
Why did you get on the mykonian wagon without explaining your reasoning at all?
When you asked the tracker to claim, what did you think this would accomplish?
Can you explain your case on Sotty yesterday?

[Nachomamma8]

And Nacho, despite voicing more concern over kunk, voted for kyle - who Sotty was already getting momentum to lynch.

You said it yourself: yesterday, town needed Kyle to be scum. And despite my stronger read on Kunk yesterday, I realized this. After looking at Kyle's activity throughout the whole game, I really wasn't that confident that he would be active enough to be around in a 2-1 LyLo situation. I hoped that you, Sotty, and Kunker would be active enough to give me the read I wanted.

I can't explain the nightkill. But I can point out that Sotty DID have a scum read on Kunker, and a town read on me. I can also point you to Sotty-Kunker interaction Day 2, and the whole deal with the tracker speculation. However, I have to admit that I am surprised that everyone's top town read of yesterday didn't die. KunkerScum would definitely want to kill you. However, you would want Sotty dead because she was the only one of us who had not pinpointed a likely scumbuddy; I had gotten it narrowed down to Sotty or Kunker, and Kunker had gotten it narrowed down to Sotty or me. So obviously the death of Sotty would make me or Kunker go after each other, leaving you to hammer whoever you liked.

[Nachomamma8]

Pure and simple: lynching me loses the game for town.

That is, if you're town. Lynching you wins the game for us if you're not. So... back to square one, eh?

1. As it were, I as well have a strong town read on hito. So...if you think he's town, and I think he's town, then he's most likely town. Not even you have pointed out a reason why hito would be town. So the conclusion derived from that is you are scum. Now what would really throw us for a loop is if hito is town. I think though, for my sanity, I'm going to keep him as town unless any scumtells show up.

Since it's LyLo, I'm not going to let tunnelling be the end of me. So, right now, everyone's back to square one. I recommend you do the same because the possibility still exists that Hito is scum.

What bothers me with this question is you continue to misrepresent my question as asking for a claim by the tracker. I did NOT ask for a claim, my only question was a clarification if the tracker could discover mafia targeting.

I'm not misrepping you; here's the quote I was referring to:

As it were, actually a role reveal of the tracker would not harm the town considering where we are. If this role extends to the mafia nightkilling, then possibly the tracker got lucky? Right now we need all the information we can get.

And, read my previous post if you haven't already, and comment on it for me.

[Nachomamma8]

Yes it is possible that hito is scum. I agree that we should go back and relook at everyone, but I think rereading the thread will only lead us back to the same conclusions. Most likely the night kill choice and anything said in this final day will be the most crucial info in the lynch decision.

Hopefully, rereading the thread with the knowledge that Sotty/Chaco is town and kyle is scum will allow you to get better reads on Hito and I.

What information/ opinions/speculations do you derive from these points?

Hito was showing how the Sotty nightkill would benefit me. I was showing how it wouldn't.

Nacho was basicially phrasing it at kunk - "I think you're scum, change my mind." This struck me as scummy - it's a neat way to look townie while in reality, if you are banking on the other person's (i.e my) support, you're just killing time waiting to the other person (me again) to vote.

Well, it was the truth. At that point, I was fairly sure he was scum. But it's extremely unfair to go into LyLo and not give the person who you find scummiest a chance to defend themselves. Thus, that post.

And then, when I pointed out that I've got plenty of suspicions on Nacho as well he suddenly called that we go 'back to square one' - which best translates as, "I was treating hito as a townie but now suddenly I want to make a case on him because he's not just going along with me"

Or rather, when you pointed out the nightkill situation, I realized how convenient it would be if you were scum. I then realized that tunneling this late in the game wasn't going to help us at all, so I decided that it would be smart to call a do-over so Kunker wouldn't make the same mistake I was.

If you honestly had a town read on me and a scum read on kunk, then your best response to me accusing you is to point out why kunk is scum and I should vote for him, not to suddenly call for a do-over. (This is of course not to say that you should be treating me as confirmed town - only that your mind shouldn't have changed as town because I lobbied suspicions at both of you and not just kunk.)

But I WAS treating you as confirmed town, and that's the problem. When you pointed how the nightkill would benefit me if I were scum, my first thought was "Wait. The nightkill was far more convinient to HitoScum than anyone...". So, you saying my mind changed because you were showing suspicion of me and kunk is either misrepping me or misunderstanding me. The fact that you're not just willing to go along with me is a town point in your favor. My mind changed when I thought about the nightkill, not because of anything else.

[Nachomamma8]

I know that it was a forgone conclusion that Kyle was going to be lynched. Yet we were still looking for his partner. You distracted from the fact that we needed some hint, some lead on who his partner was. If you consider Nacho is scum, then this situation is just Nacho realizing that Kyle is a lost cause, and trying to do damage control, preventing any further inquisition into partners by starting the lynchwagon.

I was the first to place a vote on Kyle, putting him at L-2. Both you and Sotty hammered him afterwards. At that point, I was pretty convinced that you were his buddy, and I didn't see the town making any discussion to find him. And when you hammered Kyle, you didn't seem concerned AT all about finding his buddy. You could've said, "Wait. I think we need more discussion to find Kyle's scumbuddy."
Instead, you just hammered him.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho 235 is making a big point about how hammering was scummy, and implies that being the first vote is least scummy. But I disagree. If you misvote as townie in that situation, scum can more or less insta-win. So it's a big issue to do the FIRST vote, because you have the pressure of knowing that if you're wrong the scum very probably win.

Actually, you missed the point right there. Kunkstar's point against me was that I voted Kyle and thus ended the discussion for who his buddy was. I pointed out that he hammered, thus had time to post and continue discussion, or at least make an attempt to. He did neither of these things.

When was 'this point?' After they hammered the day ended.

"This point" was when I placed my vote. No one really was pushing for more discussion at that point.

strikes me as bussing that is careful to avoid the hammer.

How?

[Nachomamma8]

I voted Kyle instead of Kunk because his final defense was crap. A townie would've tried to defend themselves when they knew their lynch would cost them the game.

[Nachomamma8]

Hey, Nacho, I think I'm voting for kunk in my next post. You with me?

I don't know. I have to do a reread before I'm sure, that's all I know... I'm still not sure, honestly.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Kunkstar7

Yay! I won my first game as scum!

[Nachomamma8]

It's not post-game yet, but hopefully the mod sees that as a 'bah' post or something

But yeah, good game guys :O

Hito, you did a freaking amazing job. I tried to make cases for why you were scum, and I literally couldn't...

Kunkstar, you surprised me... you definitely didn't go down without a good fight.

Kyle, sorry we didn't get to nighttalk bro.
We won thouugh, so it's all good!

More post-game thoughts coming when post game actually comes.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, Nacho, took that quote of yours for my wiki page. Hope you don't mind.

Of course not

I kinda wanna see the dead topic though :O

[Nachomamma8]

I like taking notes as scum, I've discovered. It organizes my thoughts somewhat.

Trumpet, I have no complaints about the modding at all.
Flavor was great, vote counts were regular...

[Nachomamma8]

not ever going to join or replace into a game that CSL is in.

Agreed. He truly screwed you guys over...

[Nachomamma8]

Actually, I don't mind if you do it. This is assuming I'm scum, of course.