Open 176 - Night Watch - GAME OVER

[Kublai Khan]

Ahahaha

Ahahaha?

vote: charter

[Kublai Khan]

I'm kinda waiting for ekiM's reaction to all this.

[Kublai Khan]

KK, why did you not comment on watcher claiming if they watched DDD a second time?

I didn't?

Huh? Weird, I typed out a post and thought I sent it in somewhere between my two other posts so far. Sorry about that.

Generally I was agreeable with the plan that a watcher should come forward to claim if they happened to be watching Debonair Danny DiPietro. But I've changed my mind now (3 paragraphs down).

@all: Is anyone else really weirded out by charter's behaviour in the game so far? He starts the game with a strong vote against ekiM and asks for any watcher who watched Debonair Danny DiPietro to step forward. My first thought was "okay.. maybe charter is a watcher who saw the kill and wants to either catch scum in a lie or force them into a fakeclaim that could trap them"*. Then when pressed he says that his reason for voting is meta-related, which is later completely debunked by ekiM. Scien questions him on his "damned if you agree with on ekiM and damned if you don't" style of posting and charter completely blows off the questions.

Then he changes his vote. Which means that if he was a watcher (again, see asterisk), he doesn't have a result on ekiM.

I'm getting a very scummy vibe from charter. Mostly for WIFOM reasons, but I'm gonna stand by my gut and leave my vote.

* [NOTE TO CHARTER-TOWN: DO NOT CONFIRM OR DENY IF YOU ARE A WATCHER. I AM NOT TRYING TO ROLEFISH.]

---

@DeathRowKitty: Why did you unvote ekiM? You voted for him because charter told you to, then you unvoted before charter expressed satisfaction with ekiM's answer. Why didn't you wait for charter's concession before vote-hopping to be early on the Sleepless Assassin bandwagon.

@RayFrost: Why don't you like the hypo-hider-claim theory?

@dramonic/hewitt: Why are you guys joking around about masons & vigs in an open setup game when strategy is being discussed?

I respect DDD as a player but his record reading me as scum isn't phenomenal. He wouldn't be my first choice to kill out of that player list (charter and KK would definitely be higher priority).

Just so you know, I'm crossing you off my X-Mas card list.

[Kublai Khan]

I don't see where you gave your opinion on if someone watched DDD. You say you did agree with it, but then you say you've changed your mind. I don't really see where you changed your mind either, can you please highlight it for me? So, do you think a watcher should claim if they watched DDD? Yes or no?

Aw crap.. Sorry about that again. Usually I'm better at editing my posts. I edited out the part where I "changed my mind" because it looked too WIFOM on my re-read.

I think it's worthwhile that a watcher should claim if they have information. However, the person asking for watchers to come forward is inherently scummy because 1) it's rolefishing and 2) a way for scum to check right away what they need to claim based on whether or not they need to cover their tracks. The way that you strongly voted for ekiM while asking for a watcher to claim looked like a way to soft-claim watcher in case someone saw you make the kill.

So, my answer is that in my initial post (which never materialized), I did agree with you that a watcher should claim if they have info. However, upon reflection, I'm uncomfortable with your strategy.

Sorry if I'm not being clear.

Because the speculation about the hider business was so uninteresting and stated so clearly that there was pretty much nothing I had to add to it that would've been helpful.

So you're in-favor of a hypo-hider-claim strategy?

[Kublai Khan]

It sounds to me like you are over complicating this in your head.

It is rolefishing, but I do not think it's scummy. I guess you're free to think the rest of what you posted there, but it seems like an awfully big stretch to me.

Yeah, maybe. I know it's early in the game for such elaborate accusations. But I made a post that showed editing which betrayed some of my doubts. I figured that I should explain my thoughts in full so that you understand where I was coming from.

How can clearly listing out questions that he wants you to answer be dismissed as an ineffective strategy? Just answer the damn questions and stop being annoying.

Because he did it last game, and it did no good, half the players said it did no good. ekim has already said don't do it this game. Posting a million words just muddies the waters for scum to hide in.

How is Scien posting a million words that you can't answer? The bottom of Post 71 has a clear and concise list of questions.

@RayFrost: Fear?

[Kublai Khan]

Not at all. I'm saying I'm going to be more likely to hedge my read on KK, regardless of what it is, than on the rest of you.

I don't think I even know how to reply to this.. It's like your tunnelling, but skipping that whole "having a reason to tunnel" phase.

My suggestion would be to quit with the suggestions on what to do with the power roles. Considering a power role should not be trusting any other player in this game why the fuck would they want to listen to any advice any other player has to give about who to hide behind or who to watch or anything like that. I think it's stupid and I think the power roles should do whatever they feel is the best course of action. After all, if everybody knows what they're going to do before they do it then the purpose is basically defeated.

Or, y'know, it's not.

Scenario A: Everyone lists who they will hide behind. Hider (Player X) dies along with the night-kill. Town goes back and check who Player X said he hid behind and will hide behind. Town catches and lynches a scum.

Scenario B: Hider doesn't tell anyone shit. Hider dies after hiding behind scum. Town has no clue who is scum.

Guess who Scenario B (hewitt's plan) benefits?

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm.. hewitt is called out for pushing a pro-scum strategy and suddenly he is clueless about basic hider strategy. Nevermind that the hider role is detailed in the opening posts and the Hider role is detailed in the mafia wiki.

So, can anyone who has a history with hewitt confirm or deny that he is the type of player who won't even consider the MOST BASIC AND OBVIOUS strategies in an open game?

[Kublai Khan]

@all: Is anyone else really weirded out by charter's behaviour in the game so far? [goes on about Charter]

While I agree on most of your Charter points, I think that first sentence is kind of odd. So you think you have a decent set of points against Charter but instead of starting to question him directly, you turn to the town and poll them to see if they share your views? Sounds like you don't want to get your hands dirty unless you think the town agree with you. I don't see a townie motive for that...

Really? Pointing out someone's scummy behavior will always result in that person replying back. So I don't have to address charter specifically.

However asking everyone else to comment on it, especially early in the game, allows me to judge who is opportunistic, who is cautious, who is logical, who is deliberately avoiding the situation, and who is

chainsaw defending

?

(Bold being the one that you're doing, BTW).

[Kublai Khan]

Lawl at the chainsaw defending comment... I am doing that how? Sounds like a redirect.

It's pretty self-evident.

Kublai Khan: Hey, I think charter is scummy for there reasons.
Scien: That's good and all, but Kublai Khan is scummy for the way he's pushing his case.

It's pretty much textbook chainsaw defending.

I understand asking the town how they feel about someone to feel out pairs, but that's not 100% accurate of what you did there. You completely layed out a case to the town and asked them if they bought it. You were not asking about Charter as much as you were asking the town "hey, can I get away with pushing this?"

Here let's try and word my concern in a question so we can talk about it: "You seem to be worried about how the town views your case on Charter? Why would you be concerned about how the town feels about your case, rather than just pursuing it yourself?"

First, I really don't like how you're putting scummy words in my mouth. Second, I really don't like how you're putting a scummy spin on the situation.

Let's go back to basics. To Mafia 101, if you will. When I ask a question to "@all", I'm practicing a bit of group psychology. Overall, people generally don't stick their necks out for each other. It's like when there is an emergency, they train you not to say "someone call 911". Instead you should point to a specific person and tell them to call 911.

Since I addressed nobody in particular, whomever took it upon themselves to answer it (and especially whomever answered it most strongly) is most likely to be playing with ulterior motives than that of an innocent bystander who has no idea what my & charter's alignments are. You're trying to take advantage of a situation and that's scummy.

For now, at least. I want to hear more from Khan, and I think he deserves more pressure.

This is just weird. I've been active and haven't dodged any questions.

So, are we doing that hypoclaim or what?

Since the hypoclaim should take the form of "I hid behind X on Night 0 and plan on hiding behind Y tonight". We should probably wait until the end of day.

mod: prod Octupis

[Kublai Khan]

I'm putting words in your mouth? Where?

Bolded.

I understand asking the town how they feel about someone to feel out pairs, but that's not 100% accurate of what you did there. You completely layed out a case to the town and asked them if they bought it. You were not asking about Charter as much as you were asking the town

"hey, can I get away with pushing this?"

I didn't ask that at all. That's *your* spin on the situation.

I'm not claiming I don't understand what you are saying about group dynamics and motives. I understand that. I just don't think that was your motive with this initial statement. It definitly sounded more like polling to me. Can you point out how it wasn't?

Look, I've stated my motives and you've stated what you think my motives are. I can't prove what my motives were any more than you can prove your wild theory. So why are you asking for a negative proof?

@charter: I'm down with a bandwagon on hewitt. He's been dodgy and unhelpful.

unvote; vote: hewitt

[Kublai Khan]

KK, why do you want to wait with telling who we are going to hide behind?

Stating a hider target at the beginning of Day 1 is pretty much just pure guesswork. Why not have people state their hider choice for Night 1 at the end of the day after they've been able to get some reads on people?

As it stands now, people like dramonic and RayFrost will probably be changing their choices throughout the day as they get new reads.

Reduce confusion, wait until the lynch choice is settled (though obviously not lynched yet--maybe somewhere around L-2 with two people having announced their willingness to hammer.).

[Kublai Khan]

A lil hew lynch is good 75% of the time. In this case, I'm not too certain about it.

What about this game makes it a minority 25% of the time?

Furthermore, why are you blocking what is clearly a pressure bandwagon?

[Kublai Khan]

Anyone else want to parrot the "DeathRowKitty is town for coming up with the hypo-claim" argument? I mean, I know it loses that luster of originality every time someone says it, but that doesn't seem to have stopped anyone yet.

@hewitt: If you're not going to defend yourself, could you at least scumhunt maybe. You're making my powerful vote feel weak and ineffectual because it's not pressuring you to do anything.

Alternatively, other people could help pressure hewitt into doing something pro-town. Y'know, for shits & giggles. Might even move the game along.

[Kublai Khan]

Alternatively, other people could help pressure hewitt into doing something pro-town. Y'know, for shits & giggles. Might even move the game along.

I'd rather vote gregory for "shits & giggles" over hewitt

(bolding yours, and I moved your comment to it's own quote box for clarity's sake)

Reading Gregory is isolation, you're probably right. He's another one who started the game with a "hider is useless, he only helps scum" argument then totally abandoned it for the hider-hypo-claim idea.

@Gregory: Why the hell is 1 vote on a lurker okay, but 2 is bad?

[Kublai Khan]

Clearly a pressure vote is not going to work on me. I'm going to defend myself first then scum hunt second if there's pressure on me.

So... You've done the first, how come you're not moving onto the second? Are you hoping the defeat scum by not hunting for them? It's a unique tactic to be sure, but I'm strongly doubting it's chances for success.

[Kublai Khan]

because one vote is a pressure vote. Every normal player should be thinking by himself when someone votes him. The second vote doesn't mean anything, only that the voter agrees with the first one.

I disagree. The more votes a person has, the more likely they are to defend themself.

Lurkers typically aren't forced to change their habits because of 1 measly vote.

@dramonic: What does post 229 mean? Also, explain how the hell are you getting newbtown vibes from Sleepless Assassin?

EBWOP: Wait.. Did dramonic just do a 180 flip on Sleepless Assassin? WTF?

[Kublai Khan]

Crap. Bunch of new posts. No time to get to this. Will post big post tomorrow (hopefully).

[Kublai Khan]

ITT, Charter reveals himself as town to anybody with meta on him.

Chartertown's meta is

really

easy for charterscum to fake.

I really find it hard to believe that all the SA voters think he is scum who forgot who he NK'ed. It really makes no sense whatsoever.

Seemed awfully contrived, to be honest. And consistent with the overall bad newbscum play of Sleepless Assassin.

I'm willing to give hewitt the benefit of the doubt and let him survive for today. He's fallen to 4th on my probable scum list (after Sleepless Assassin, Scien, & Gregory)

unvote

I'm willing to lynch Sleepless Assassin. But first I think we should get a votecount, then probably do a hypo-hider-round.

Mod: Votecount please

[Kublai Khan]

I've played with charterscum replacing in (my first game, pegged both scum on instinct but failed to prove it town still won, though). According to camn (who also replaced in as a townie), charterscum self-destructs rather easily... even if he does fake it, I'm pretty sure I can still get a decent enough read on him.

Of course you'll forgive me if I don't trust you explicitly.

Would you mind explaining how you made your decision on scien/gregory? I have my own reasons, but I don't know your's.

Gregory: Comes in late, just repeats what others have already said. Throws out a questionable vote with no solid pro-town thinking behind it (even after the fact). No original scum-hunting. Some active lurking.

Scien: Several misrepresented me and spun my words; asked me to prove something ridiculous, then dropped it when I confronted him. I don't agree with the theory that he's trying to detract from a hewitt lynch, but his latest emotional outburst is suspect. I'm hesitant to push for his lynch because I suspect I might be more suspicious of his style of posting rather than the content of his posts. I'll probably try to get a meta read on him over the weekend.

[Kublai Khan]

unvote

Acknowledged.

[Kublai Khan]

Gregory: Comes in late, just repeats what others have already said. Throws out a questionable vote with no solid pro-town thinking behind it (even after the fact). No original scum-hunting. Some active lurking.

could you give one example. I've tried to say new things, probably the reason why I haven't said a lot. sorry for that.

Ok:

My suggestion would be to quit with the suggestions on what to do with the power roles. Considering a power role should not be trusting any other player in this game why the fuck would they want to listen to any advice any other player has to give about who to hide behind or who to watch or anything like that. I think it's stupid and I think the power roles should do whatever they feel is the best course of action. After all, if everybody knows what they're going to do before they do it then the purpose is basically defeated.

guys, what is the benefit of a hider? correct me if I'm wrong, but is the hider someone who is kinda nk-proof, but also gives scum a 35% chance to kill 2 townies in one night?

The last thing seem quite dangerous, so why should we help scum to find the hider, even if we get a little info from it. The information doesn't give us a scum-lynch, does it?

I don't know all of this, never played with a hider. At this moment, I would be comfortable with letting him do his job alone.

Hewitt states his philosophy of what the hider should do, you repeat it in the next post (albeit in a less profane way).

Reading through your posts in iso, I guess it happened less than I remember, it's more than first one that jumped out at me. However most of your posts are about defending yourself over the vote the double-lurker-voter move.

---

I paraphrased, I didn't misrepresent. I was merely making hyperbole about your position, to make a point, IIRC.

Excuse me? How the hell is paraphrasing my words with hyperbole not misrepresenting me?

That 'something ridiculous' you called out for being WIFOM, something that I couldn't be sure one way or the other, so I dropped it because I agree with you on it being WIFOM. I can still be suspicious of it, but at the moment it is purely in the realm of 'maybe not maybe so' and pressing you on it is not going to help. My dropping it is scummy now? So you would say that you think its suspicious if I push it, and suspicious if I don't at this point? Nice.

More the timing of the actions than the actions themselves.

My wiki is up to date.

Ta.

Hmm.. Only one game started as scum. Not enough to build any kind of reliable meta. Damn.

---

If you are willing to vote SA, say why and what makes you find him a better choice over the other lynch candidate (hewitt) or, if you aren't, why you find hewitt a better candidate (if he's your choice).

I'm willing to vote Sleepless Assassin because I'm reading him as newbscum.

ekim nothing really happened yet except DDD dying.

Vote Hewitt I guess.

Note the "I guess". His Vote on Hewitt is a (late) random vote...

Hewitt and Kublai are pretty scummy. I can't decide on Charter but right now I think he's town. Scien is probably town. Dramonic has my attention, but I'm not sure why.

...then he tries to justify the hewitt vote by claiming he's scummy and posting a bunch of IIoA to "support" it. Note the rest of his "reads" are hedged nonsense. His comment on Dramonic is exactly the kind of comment a newbscum makes to look busy and serious but has nothing behind it.

It doesn't help that you aren't defending yourself. RayFrost is putting up a better defense of you than you are.

Basically following/copying charter's tactics because there's no overt suspicion of charter.

Tell me how many people wanted to lynch Hewitt when I voted for him. I'm not just following the crowd. I voted for who I thought was scum and he hasn't defended himself or scumhunted since so I still think he's scum.

Revisionism. When he voted for hewitt it was a (late) random vote. Remember the "I guess" part? Now he's trying to claim it was a serious scum-hunting vote fromt he start.

Hewitt, why are scum the only ones who are cocky?

Unvote, Vote Debonair Danny DiPietro.

Had no reason to jump off hewitt wagon except for the fact that he was getting votes for being on it. Plus, I've said before that the vote and "Oops" retraction sounded awfully contrived. (Note that not a minute passed between the vote and retraction--why would he immediately check Debonair Danny DiPietro's status after voting him but not before?)

Hewitt, what makes you an "easy target" over, for example, Octupis or Gregory? And how are easy targets more likely to be town than scum?

Classic defence by WIFOM.

tl;dr

Sleepless Assassin made a random vote. charter tunneled on his random vote target, so Sleepless Assassin acted like his vote is and always has been a serious for-sure vote that hewitt is scum. Then he changes his mind and does a quick "vote-the-dead-guy" ploy.

I'm willing to vote to lynch Sleepless Assassin.

Hypo-hider claim:
Night 0 : Hid behind charter
Night 1 : Will hide behind dramonic

[Kublai Khan]

Ugh. This is slow. Who are we waiting on and why haven't they posted yet?

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm.. Really don't like the "claim a power role then disappear" routine. In my experience actual pro-town PR players tend to stick around after claiming to answer questions and try to plan out their actions since they are outed. Scum tend to vanish, then check back to see who bought it.

But it's moot. Sleepless Assassin isn't today's lynch. Day 1 will end with the assumption that he's a town watcher.

Hmm.. Damn, the death of the rolecop really fucks up our potential strategies. It's pointless for the watchers to watch each other because then the mafia will just pick off the most townie looking townie.

The hypo-hider claims should have probably given Sleepless Assassin a good idea if he saw the hider or the other watcher.

The second watcher should probably watch Sleepless Assassin and Sleepless Assassin better turn up a scum suspect.

I guess this is my long-winded way of saying that I agree with charter.

As for today's lynch.. let me think it over. I'll probably vote tomorrow.

[Kublai Khan]

Okay, I'm a little behind.. But let me get this straight.

Sleepless Assassin is claiming watcher who knows another power role.
hewitt is claiming watcher who knows another power role.

Neither targetted Debonair Danny DiPietro so neither know who the mafia is.
They didn't target the same Player X, otherwise they'd know that each other were clear.
Neither targetted whomever Debonair Danny DiPietro targetted, otherwise they wouldn't claim.
They couldn't have targetted each other because they both couldn't have seen the hider.
There are no other power roles.

So we have two impossible claims. I guess it's a ploy by scum to out a watcher (or both?) and make a 1 for 1 trade. Seems pretty damn dumb on the surface.

vote: Sleepless Assassin

Of course, hewitt signed his own death warrant if Sleepless Assassin turns up town.

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai, gregory, ekiM, and octupis not posting at all so far has been noted.

Okay, hear me out.

I wasn't going to bother to post anymore. I've got other games going on, I've got a real life with a pregnant wife, a change in jobs, a new kitten, ... basically stuff is going on and I've accepted that my death in this game is pretty imminent. The only reason I've still got this game watched is the fact that I haven't died yet and my morbid curiosity surrounding what's going to go down after my death.

Here's the kicker: I'm a vanilla townie.

Now, I know what everyone is thinking: "Wha-? But RayFrost is a Watcher who was confirmed town by a hider! And he said..."

Yeah, I know. And I can't really explain his comments so far on Day 3. I didn't send any PM to Kaiveran since I confirmed into this game.

My role doesn't have any night action.

Of course, nobody is going to believe me and hell, if I weren't for my role PM I honestly wouldn't believe me either. But barring any

modding errors

, here's some solid reasons why I can still town in this game situation:

A) DeathRowKitty lied about his N0 choice. Now, it's unlikely because we're conditioned to believe that no good townie should ever lie, but as we've seen with Sleepless Assassin... townies do lie. Maybe DeathRowKitty didn't hide on N0 (a smart choice, really) but had a really wrong town read on RayFrost. When RayFrost and his mafia buddies got together at night and realized what an advantage they had, they immediately decided to have RayFrost claim Watcher with a result on me because they think I'm a watcher.
B) RayFrost *is* a watcher, but he's lying about his result to lure the other scum out. This is probably what RayFrost is doing considering that he's been pushing me for reactions to his comments. Think about it, why would RayFrost-watcher need me to comment on his result on me? This didn't hit me until the middle of the night and I feel dumb for not claiming my innocence sooner.

Oh, and Scien is obv-Scum.

vote: Scien

I hope RayFrost has a plan for revealing his true result before the Scien-lynch because if he doesn't then my mislynch will be tomorrow.

[Kublai Khan]

Also, np on not posting (I said that more for the sake of the more inactive people than you). After all, you are scum that will die. Why bother posting?

I'm posting because you prodded me. And I'm assuming you prodded me because you want some kind of reaction.

And emphatically re-claiming simple statements is the hallmark of a liar trying to keep his story straight and simple. I'm very much doubting your claim, RayFrost. I think you are another Sleepless Assassin.

(real second watcher shouldn't counter-claim. obv. obv.)

[Kublai Khan]

unvote

vote: RayFrost

Longer days help town.

[Kublai Khan]

unvote

vote:Scien

RayFrost is obv-partner.

[Kublai Khan]

Oh, and claiming misrep is, and always will be, a scum-tell.

[Kublai Khan]

Well, when KK kills ray tonight, that will confirm KK as scum beyond a doubt.

Totally framed, yo.

After re-reading the past few days I can only insist at this point that there has been a giant mod-error. Don't trust the words on the screen people. Words can be manipulative. They can be distorted and abused for nefarious means. Instead trust pictures.

Pictures don't lie. Look at the avatars. Who has the scummiest avatar? That's right... ekiM. That's a mafia face if I ever saw one.

vote: ekiM

[Kublai Khan]

Y'know, you're right Dragonfly13. I had a moment of

inebriation

confusion and I'm sorry about that.

unvote
vote: charter

Remember: if charter implies that you're dumb or stupid or foolish for disagreeing with anything he says, then it's a massive scumtell for him. Ignore whatever else he says.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm here.

How are you going to go about confirming our innocence then Charter? I am ready to be co-operative.

Don't co-operate with charter. He's got no plan. He's just wasting your time. Lynch charter!

[Kublai Khan]

Doesn't look like we can get one of us confirmed through this.

Good fakeout.

vote Kublai

Good bussing.

[Kublai Khan]

Bah
Go
Scum

[Kublai Khan]

@Scien, dramonic, or KK
Did you have KK make the N1 kill because you thought the hider was going to out him anyway?

Yeah, three potential hiders were targetting me. Logical choice to reduce the chance of scum getting outed (though it didn't work).

Tough part was that I knew that RayFrost was the second watcher and I had considered targetting him instead. They kinda gave each other away on Day 1.

Great job, dramonic. I've been keeping up on the thread, and I had heard that Adel was good, but damn. He was doing some seriously good analysis. I'm glad I just goofed around after I was outed. Just tried to do the opposite that Scien did.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK, Scien, dramonic
Are you alright with posting your quicktopic? Seems like it would be an interesting read...the first couple nights

Quick scan to make sure I said nothing negative or catty about anyone.......

.....

...Okay, I'm good. Scien can post if he wants.

[Kublai Khan]

I did say something negative about someone in there ^_^;

Nope, just good clean scheming.. Kinda cool to look back. We were all so young and idealistic back then with our fear of a mass-claim..

[Kublai Khan]

lol @ KK hoping I was dumb enough to think I wasn't obv watcher

I was confirmed town regardless due to DRK's N0 hiding.

I had to claim in order to get it out before my death.

Heh. I know. It's just one of those times where the only thing you can really do is hope on the failure of others.

[Kublai Khan]

Hewitt-reasons given already.
Ray-reasons given

Kublai-just a feeling that's been there pretty much all game, but I can't find anything against him.
Dramonic- his turnaround stance.

I was close...

Anyway, about the watcher thing. I didn't think anyone would counterclaim because there were two. Then I figured we could lynch someone who might actually be scum and then I'd be killed at night.

Eh... "just a feeling" readings don't faze me at all. If someone doesn't have a case, then I don't worry about it at all.

And what RayFrost said about not fakeclaiming when you're town. You really helped us out by having a watcher come forward to discredit you.

[Kublai Khan]

Hewitt-reasons given already.
Ray-reasons given

Kublai-just a feeling that's been there pretty much all game, but I can't find anything against him.
Dramonic- his turnaround stance.

I was close...

Anyway, about the watcher thing. I didn't think anyone would counterclaim because there were two. Then I figured we could lynch someone who might actually be scum and then I'd be killed at night.

Eh... "just a feeling" readings don't faze me at all. If someone doesn't have a case, then I don't worry about it at all.

And what RayFrost said about not fakeclaiming when you're town. You really helped us out by having a watcher come forward to discredit you.