Open 176 - Night Watch - GAME OVER

[charter]

Ahahaha

vote ekim

[charter]

Oh, if someone watched DDD, I think you should just claim. The other watcher can just watch you and if scum kill you, we've already got two down. Discuss.

[charter]

Yes, I think it's funny DDD was killed night zero.

Why not discuss a watcher claiming if they watched DDD last night?

[charter]

I talk with DDD a lot, played in a bunch of games with him too.

[charter]

I also don't get why people are joke voting. Why? My vote on ekim is dead serious, I think he's likely to have killed DDD night one.

[charter]

Uhhh, so do you think that mike was likely to have killed DDD, or what?

[charter]

Well, I'm not really quite sure what to make of DRK's mindless following me. Will need to wait for ekim.

Actually, I think that hypohider might work here. Normally hypo cop is a terrible town strategy, but that's because the scum can easily identify and then kill the cop. With a hider, however, even if scum identify the hider, they can't kill him. You could argue that they can then narrow down the pool of people the hider will hide behind, both based on knowing who the hider is and who they've already hidden behind. However, it makes more sense for the hider to just claim, since there's really no reason to mess around with hypohider.

I dunno, I think that the hider should just breadcrumb their info into their posts and claim if a townie is about to be lynched. Honestly, I would be shocked if the hider hid last night. 4/11 chance of being killed.

What I'm saying is, I don't think we should do hypohider, and just leave it up to the hider to best use their role.

[charter]

No. Would die hiding behind the three mafia or the person who got killed. 4/11.

[charter]

I also don't get why people are joke voting.

What is there to go on at this point (this is a real question to you BTW)? You're claimed link between ekiM and DDD. I couldn't trust it even if it wasn't WIFOM.

Um, there was a night already. Perhaps you missed that? Do you think scum pulled DDD's name out of a hat? I'd wager not. Why did you ignore this useful piece of information and joke vote?

Seems like you are setting up a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing here. Don't follow your suggestion: "Why is everyone joke voting, we are clearly out of random stage". Follow your suggestion: "Woah why are you taking my advice to go for the only person with any real suspicion at the moment. Following!" Just curious as to why you would be doing that?

I set this up? Where? I think yuou're inventing this. I asked why people are joke voting. I want to know. You failed to answer, which is noted. Instead, you accuse me of whatever this is. Also noted.

[charter]

People are free to random vote, obviously I'm not the RVS sheriff. I just want to know why they joke voted. I believe I did give my reason for voting ekim. I thought he was likely to kill DDD.

[charter]

Just got done with a game with DDD and ekim, and DDD was pretty much on ekim, but due to very unfortunate circumstances, scum prevailed.

[charter]

Scien, I'm not playing a million questions or quote war. You can ask all them you want, but you better bold the one or two points you actually want a response to.

Scien, have you ever played a game where the RVS was unnecessary? This game is a prime example of one. You could have speculated on why DDD was killed, "Hmmm, DDD was killed, anyone have a guess as to why?" Much more productive than joke voting.

And I'm tossing a lot of suspicion around? You have an inventive imagination.

[charter]

I have a feeling charter is town... maybe.

Really? One person tried to present some solid breaking strategy. I think it was that charter person.

[charter]

Lol Scien. Get a new strategy.

[charter]

Well, a lot of it was after me and DDD were dead, we were talking about the game, and we both thought it was you (ekim) and Elvis, which I believe we both said post game. I guess there's not a way to verify this.

Is my reason good enough to lynch over? Of course not, but I think it's a pretty solid way to start out the game.

[charter]

And ekim, what legitimate contribution has KK made so far?

[charter]

Well, we did both say we had you as scum after the game. Could be worried that it would happen again. I thought it would be a good start.

[charter]

Fine.

unvote

KK, why did you not comment on watcher claiming if they watched DDD a second time?

vote Hewitt

Because he's posting gibberish. Hewitt, who do you currently think is most likely to be scum?

[charter]

If I had watched DDD last night, it would already by night two by now.

I don't see where you gave your opinion on if someone watched DDD. You say you did agree with it, but then you say you've changed your mind. I don't really see where you changed your mind either, can you please highlight it for me? So, do you think a watcher should claim if they watched DDD? Yes or no?

[charter]

It sounds to me like you are over complicating this in your head.

It is rolefishing, but I do not think it's scummy. I guess you're free to think the rest of what you posted there, but it seems like an awfully big stretch to me.

How can clearly listing out questions that he wants you to answer be dismissed as an ineffective strategy? Just answer the damn questions and stop being annoying.

Because he did it last game, and it did no good, half the players said it did no good. ekim has already said don't do it this game. Posting a million words just muddies the waters for scum to hide in.

[charter]

Yes, I am much liking my hewitt vote. Zero attempt at scumhunting, just drifting along. I even asked him who his top suspect was to try and get something from him, but I don't see where he plans on going anywhere with that.

The reason directing power roles is not scummy in an open setup is because everyone knows they are there and with all the other townies thinking about how best to use a particular role, they can normally come up with a better strategy than just the person who has it. Normally I am against directing power roles, but everything is out in the open in these open games. Just thought that should be said.

DRK would probably be my current pick for a hewitt scumbuddy, mostly a lack of pro town behavior, despite posting plenty.

[charter]

How would we have players who can be confirmed as town? If the hider hides behind scum and nothing happens then clearly that contradicts that strategy.

If the hider hides and doesn't die, the person they hid behind is confirmed town.

[charter]

Now I want to vote DRK. What a pickle, only having one vote.

That's a pretty scummy reaction to weak stated suspicion. Plus, you don't actually respond to what I said about you, instead accusing me of not contributing.

I feel I have contributed to this game, and certainly more than others. My reason for being suspicious of you is because for the number of posts you have made, I find few of them to display protown behavior.

[charter]

Yeah, it's clear that you don't see what I am accusing you of, because instead of asking what it is, you immediately spin it right back on me and accuse me of not contributing.

I see you asking virtually no questions directed at others to try and figure out their alignment, it doesn't look like you have much interest in finding scum. Not much interacting with players. Lurker vote but give no reason for the lurker to post. Lack of pro town behavior.

[charter]

Christ. Here we go again. Read the roles in the first post Hewitt...

[charter]

If you try to hide behind a mobster, the mobster will betray you and you will die.

Therefore, if they do not die, then they hid behind town...

[charter]

Well, Hewitt still has a mentality that helps scum in regards to power roles (no one suggesting what they should do). I still think he's scummy. He's spent most of his time arguing hider strategy.

[charter]

Ugh, breaking my balls here, Scien.

1)Speculation
2)Don't need to vote, can have serious discussion without just voting. I attempted this.
3)Research him/talk to him beforegame
4)Can't be sure, obviously, but I think it's more likely
5)See 4
6)Because we can have serious discussion instead of confirming last discussion
7)Less words for scum to hide behind

[charter]

1)I'm not saying you should, but it can't hurt
2)No
3)I don't know, ask everyone else
4)Stuff like "Hey a new face! Time to die." or "Clearly a squid has to have a hand in this villainy!" or "for quadruple voting me in the pre-game!" or 'late confirming scum' (but we didn't actually see that here)

[charter]

Yes, I said KK was reaching with his reasons to suspect me and over complicating things.

[charter]

Gregory's vote seems like a serious case of pot calling the kettle black.

[charter]

Oh wow, I didn't realize that Gregory was criticizing Ray for putting the second vote on a lurker. I thought he was saying Rayfrost had twice voted different lurkers.

Now that I actually go back and look, Sleepless Assassin isn't posting a whole lot, but he's not really lurking either.

However, pressuring people who fall in to this middle ground is a solid strategy early game, so I don't see anything wrong with RayFrost's vote, other than he didn't really ask any questions to SA. Gregory is saying that RayFrost is voting him just so Ray looks like he's doing something, but then Gregory's vote on Ray is pretty much the same thing, just voting Ray to look like he's doing something.

Gregory's vote is pretty scummy now that I go back and get the facts straight. Placing a second vote on someone isn't scummy ever, certainly not a reason to vote someone.

[charter]

I agree with Ray here, you really didn't draw any conclusions from doing that. I certainly didn't.

[charter]

Ok, this game is already stagnant. Bandwagon on Hewitt to revive it. The other acceptable target is DRK. They are probably both scum.

[charter]

I don't see where SA has asked any questions, other than "what's the plan?". What do you think of Hewitt and DRK?

[charter]

Gregory, I don't know what your fixation with Ray is, but Ray was pretty specific with his reasons when he voted for SA. It wasn't lurking, it was posting information but not analyzing it, which is scummy.

What do you think of Hewitt and DRK, Gregory?

[charter]

I say we just lynch Hewitt. He has no interest in scumhunting and is scummy to boot. Great candidate for a lynch.

[charter]

Do you think Gregory is scum or town? Why?

I'm not fabricating anything. You're going to great lengths to not scumhunt and it's showing.

[charter]

Soooo, do you think he's scum or town?

[charter]

Yeah, let's just lynch Hewitt.

[charter]

Your "scumhunting" is a joke, but you clearly don't realize.

[charter]

I am leaning scum. Mostly since he's not doing much of anything.

Ray, you down for a Hewitt lynch?

[charter]

So basically you can't formulate a good case on anybody so you're just calling people out for "not doing much" and hoping to eventually get enough people to agree with you that you can lynch them. Hmmm you know who uses that strategy quite a bit???

The case against you is failure to scumhunt. This is a summary of your posts.

0-2: gibberish
3: maybe a sliver of scumhunting (not really though)
4-10: being wrong about hiders
11-25: whining about getting votes

That's it. Those aren't the posts of someone trying to find scum.

Sooooo... You think gregory is scum for not doing anything? I assume this means you don't count him voting me, misrepping me, admitting he was wrong, unvoting only after I pointed it out, and spouting the same reason for finding DRK townish as hewitt as doing anything?

Not doing anything useful. Sorry, I thought I implied the useful.

And not really Confused lil hew hasn't been helpful yet, but he hasn't done anything scummy yet, either (imo).

Exactly. What are you waiting for him to do? He can keep making the posts he's making now and you'll let him cruise until endgame.

[charter]

charter you started your attack on me for not doing anything on PAGE FOUR. Do you even realize how ridiculous that is?

Since then, I've updated reasons three times.

Yes, I am much liking my hewitt vote. Zero attempt at scumhunting, just drifting along. I even asked him who his top suspect was to try and get something from him, but I don't see where he plans on going anywhere with that.

Well, Hewitt still has a mentality that helps scum in regards to power roles (no one suggesting what they should do). I still think he's scummy. He's spent most of his time arguing hider strategy.

And then in my last post. The only response you've mustered is calling my initial attack ridiculous and saying you haven't whined about getting votes (I don't really care what you call it, all you do is just yell at people for voting you for a case you don't agree with).

Still no scumhunting.

[charter]

why do you want to lynch him so fast. he is unhelpfull, but how are you sure he's scum. personally, I like the first day to take as long as possible.

I don't see any point in waiting around. I don't like long days, they are pointless.

[charter]

Oh, I'm fine with a gregory or hewitt lynch. Look like buddies to me.

mod, can we get some votecounts? Preferably every page or two, not five.

[charter]

Yeah, it's Hewitt lynch time. He says SA is being opportunistic scum, but SA voted Hewitt before anyone else. Hardly what I'd call opportunistic.

[charter]

I think SA is town. I think Hewitt is scum. I think the wagon on SA has been pushed to deflect from the Hewitt wagon. Let's lynch Hewitt.

Word. Hewitt is more interested in picking as many fights as he can rather than look for scum. This is really a no brainer obvscum lynch, no idea why it's this hard to go through with.

It's also really obvious that two of the people defending him or voting SA are his buddies.

I probably won't have anything else to say today, this is really straightforward.

[charter]

Yeah, I'm setting up the one-two-three scum lynch. What's the problem?

[charter]

Whatcha going to do when one and two flip town? Oh wait, nothing, town will have lost when that happens (assuming hider fail)

Well if one flips town, then obviously I need to rethink. I'm not saying lynch them regardless, just as long as the one before flips scum.

[charter]

Whatcha going to do when one and two flip town? Oh wait, nothing, town will have lost when that happens (assuming hider fail)

Well if one flips town, then obviously I need to rethink. I'm not saying lynch them regardless, just as long as the one before flips scum.

So then what do you propose happens after one lynches town?

Did you read my post? I said I needed to rethink.

[charter]

Seriously, why is Hewitt dead yet?

Anyone not voting Hewitt, explain thoroughly to me what pro town behavior he has displayed so far this game, what massive scumtells is the person you are currently voting dropping, and why he shouldn't be lynched.

[charter]

I really don't have anything more to say until someone is lynched.

SA is town because those voting him are very scummy and his wagon sprung up right after hewitt's did. Obviously the town rival to the scum wagon on hewitt.

[charter]

I'll think he's town even if by some miracle hewitt is town.

[charter]

What is unhelpful about emphasizing how scummy you are and how fast you should be lynched? Hewitt, please stop with your pithy remarks and whatnot, they're just digging a deeper hole for you.

I really find it hard to believe that all the SA voters think he is scum who forgot who he NK'ed. It really makes no sense whatsoever.

[charter]

Can someone explain to me why SA is such obvnewbscum? I still maintain his vote for DDD is a pretty strong point that he didn't kill DDD.

[charter]

I am still firmly agaisnt a SA lynch. He's one of the few people I believe to be town. If we can't do hewitt (WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS WAITING FOR FROM HIM, BY THE WAY?) I'd do Gregory in a heartbeat. He's scum too. Other people I am wary of, KK, ekim and DRK. Our scum are almost certainly in those five.

Anyhow, hider.
N0-Rayfrost
N1-Scien

[charter]

Actually, change that, I'm going scumhunting tonight.
N1-KK

[charter]

unvote, vote Gregory

This lynch is like watching a train wreck. I am ~80% sure Gregory is scum. His play is TEXTBOOK scum.

First post- bunch of fitting in
Then goes way overboard voting Ray.
Takes it back after everyone tells him his vote was bad, proceeds to lay low for a while.
Starts leaning Hewitt in post 331, then switches to SA.

Zero scumhunting. He spent more time arguing about two votes on a lurker than he has anything else. He tried to pull a fast one by voting Ray, but since then he's done NOTHING. NOTHINGGGG. Gregory is scum.

[charter]

I think he's town because I think that just about everyone voting him or saying they will vote for him is scummy. He hasn't done anything scummy. His DDD vote didn't look like some scum ploy. I don't see anything he's done that's been scummy. He hasn't done a whole lot, but he's at least attempted scumhunting, unlike hewitt.

Gregory is such obvscum. If you think they can be buddies, why not vote Gregory?

[charter]

So, from what I gather, SA is claiming to be watcher, who watched the same person as the other watcher?

I want to give SA one night to catch scum, and if not, massclaim tomorrow if our hider is still alive. Pretty sure that will just outright win the game for us. Either someone confirms his story (the other watcher) and we get, probably 4 confirmed town (2 watchers, hider, person hidden behind) which will make this an easy game. Or he's lying, and a buddy has to back up his story, in which case we still win.

DRK seems to just think about how to lynch SA even more and not actually think about the claim. Another obvscum.

Let's lynch Gregory people!

[charter]

Obviously SA should watch the other watcher tonight. Just in case you didn't realize that.

[charter]

Oh, just mafia kills fail targeting the hider. Normally it's all actions. Still, I'd bank he watched the other watcher since hiding N0 doesn't seem like a good idea to me, though everyone so far has claimed they did, so who knows.

All beside the point, he should still watch the other power role since he knows that person to be town.

[charter]

I am terribly confused by dramonic right now. He gets bumped up to the questionable scum category.

Still voting SA, yet telling him what to do with his role tonight. Doesn't make any sense. Explain.

[charter]

Lynch time.

[charter]

We can lynch greg or hewitt today but I'd rather dramonic. Who all agrees?

Well, gregory claimed townie, so there's really no reason to lynch anyone but him.

[charter]

No, second watcher do what you want. The WIFOM caused for the scum will be nice.

SA had better watch who he knows is town or he better have a guilty tomorrow.

Tomorrow we need to massclaim.

[charter]

Because we will win. I'll explain tomorrow.

[charter]

Massclaiming in LYLO would be dumb. Then we'd have to actually think.

[charter]

Well, if we mislynch day one and two, then we are in lylo day three.

[charter]

I don't either, but that isn't what you were saying before.

[charter]

It does.

[charter]

Well, it assumes that happens. If you want to put a negative connotation on it you could say "imply".

[charter]

Well, I'd prefer a hewitt lynch, but gregory is really scummy as well.

And obviously I think that they are both scum, but I think that all that time and it's not always right.

[charter]

Hewitt, what are you smoking?

You're still scum, just lucky gregory dug his g

[charter]

rave by claiming vanilla.

stupid laptop.

[charter]

What the hell are you talking about?!?!? I've said SA is town the whole freaking game! What do you mean distract? I'm calling it like I see it, and if that doesn't fit in the groove that everyone else sees, then yeah, I am going to go a different way rather than fitting in. Then when he claims watcher, everyone immediately unvotes, except I don't have to, because I never voted him.

You're lucky gregory dug his own grave because you're the scummiest person, but it doesn't make any sense to lynch you now since gregory is scummy and isn't a power role.

After writing all this up, I'd lynch hewitt, damn the antitownness of it, he is scum.

[charter]

unvote, vote Hewitt

There is literally no way hewitt is not scum. None.

[charter]

The case on you is failure to be town. You have done absolutely nothing protown this entire game, and you don't show any sign that you will at any point. That is the case. It is a damn good one. You can keep pretending like it doesn't exist, but that doesn't change the fact that you are scum.

I realize my vote hop is useless, it's mostly symbolic, I'll move it back on to gregory unless hewitt can actually get votes.

[charter]

The time to bus hewitt was a long time ago DRK.

[charter]

Oh wow, hewitt actually isn't far behind Gregory.

MOD, can we get a deadline extension?

Have to switch back to Gregory if not.

Charter:

What is your reasoning for calling DRK obv scum buddies with lil hew?

Argh, don't make me do stuff. A lot of it is I think both of them are really scummy, but I'll see if there are some direct connections for you.

FOS everyone not voting, for good measure.

[charter]

I have opinions on every player. I don't parade around saying all them because I don't want to explain in depth why I think all of it, but if you want them, I am pretty sure SA, yourself, Scien are town. Don't really have any read on Octopis. Slight scumread on ekim and dramonic. KK, DRK, hewitt, gregory look pretty scummy to me.

You are playing a lot like in that newbie game, plus you're not doing anything scummy, and with all the other scummy people, there really isn't room for you to be scum in this game.
Scien, pretty much the same thing.
SA, lack of scummy things, and I don't think the DDD thing was a scum ploy and I think his wagon was heavily scum fueled.

Octopis doesn't post enough for me to figure him out.

ekim is lurking and not being very protown.
dramonic is being fairly scummy and not protown.

KK doesn't really seem interested in finding scum so much as he just wants to cast suspicion on people.
DRK, scummy behavior.
hewitt, nothing protown, scummy.
Gregory, scummy.

About to go look for DRK/hewitt connections.

[charter]

Actually, ekim has his protown moments, but the lurking is still there, and he's lurkerscum. Can't write him off as town right now.

[charter]

Post 110, DRK reacts really poorly after I softly accuse him and hewitt as being scumbuddies. Not really that good of point. A much better one is his reaction is just really scummy.

177, hewitt says neither him or DRK are good lynches, though they clearly are. In 182, DRK asks hewitt why he wouldn't be a good lynch (which is a very bizarre question to ask). Hewitt doesn't answer.

Actually, dramonic has a scumalicious post in 222 which ties him strongly to hewitt.

HOLY @#$@$! SOMEONE SAID THIS BEFORE, BUT I JUST SKIMMED IT. Look at dramonic's post 235-237. HOLY %$#@%$ CRAP. This is a scumfession of him and hewitt being scumbuddies if I've ever seen one.

Actually ekim is thinking the exact same thing as I am at the bottom of page 11, so he gets moved to neutral. Ray, I must thank you, this reread did me good.

289, dramonic accuses me of chainlynching pretty soon after I start going after hewitt.

417, ok, ekim is totally on the same wavelength as me. He should put real life on hold and post in this game to eliminate the possibility of being lurkerscum.

418, right after, hewitt comes in and tries to undermine ekim.

Ok, after my semi reread, I am ~95% sure dramonic and hewitt are scumbuddies. You can look at all the points I listed above (most of them aren't really that good) but in addition to all that, I think they've ignored each other the entire game (other than some innocuous questions).

unvote, vote dramonic

My vote is going on whichever of these two is closer to lynch. I think Gregory is scummy, but I'm having trouble finding any buddies for him. I think the third scum is KK. This is kind of contradicting what I just said, but I just reread the thread and this is standing out like whoa.

I realize deadline is in a few days, and I am being horribly anti town by reneging on my Gregory vote, but after reviewing the thread (which I urge anyone not sold on dramonic/hewitt to do) this is incredibly overwhelming.

[charter]

What post did you make that in? If I missed it, I want to go back and reevaluate. And I'm pretty sure that looking for scumbuddies is a great and effective way of hunting scum, since, you know, there are three of them working to not lynch each other.

I mean, if you thought me and SA were buddies then it would make sense to lynch one of us. But since you all unvoted SA, it's pretty clear that you're faking that. Claiming a powerrole day one is a great way of delaying your lynch, but you all unvote like he's confirmed town, which made me even more sure that he was, in fact, town.

If you just policy unvote all claimed powerroles day one, then you really open up the door for scum to wreck havoc on the town. What if SA is scum, then tomorrow claims a guilty on someone. You mislynch twice and only get one scum in the process. AMAZING TRADE if he's scum. But no, everyone unvotes, so he's clearly town. Not lynching powerroles (especially in an open setup when scum know what role to claim) just lets scum hurt town even more.

[charter]

The problem is...and I know this might sounds like Mafia 101 here but...WE DON'T KNOW WHO EVEN ONE OF THE SCUM IS YET. God...damn you'd think it'd be really basic but apparently not. And here's Mafia lesson 102, YOU DON'T LYNCH SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS A POWER ROLE ON D1. That's even simpler in my opinion. On a day of such uncertainty you really can't tell who's playing scummy because they're scum or who's just playing like a dumbass town. You have to give SA the benefit of the doubt for today because it's not worth risking.

Umm, if you don't think you can't pick out scumbuddies on day one, you are sorely mistaken. I know I've done it before (I think my record is a list of five and all five were anti town, I believe) and I know I'll do it again.

And here is mafia lesson 1, yes, you don't lynch confirmable power roles day one (which watcher isn't one). What are you going to do when tomorrow SA claims to have watched someone and they didn't go anywhere? Tells us nothing. Absolutely nothing. And if you seriously subscribe to this philosophy, how can you ever lynch scum day one? All scum have to do is claim a power role and you policy unvote them. That's idiotic.

And I think SA is town, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I want SA to claim the role of the person he saw for a reason.

You're not still pushing for SA's lynch, so this is extremely antitown. You should only get this info if SA is about to die, and since he currently has zero votes, this doesn't seem likely. You only should get this info if you're so sure he's scum that he needs to claim everything he knows in the eventuality he is town when he gets lynched.

Remember, scum can't kill confirmed/obvtowns in this game, else they just give themselves up to the watchers.

[charter]

Hewitt, what post was your quote in post 464 from?

[charter]

Hewitt, you missed my point 100%. If SA is scum, then he can (plausibly) get a townie lynched today, then lie tomorrow about his investigation to get another townie lynched and put the town in LYLO. This is an AMAZING plan for scum. If I was scum (WIFOM, but bear with me) I would have lurked a bit, then in my first post accuse the person I thought most likely to be watcher of being scum and try and pull a 1for1 or even a twofer.

Anyhow, my point was if SA is scum, he can probably get a townie lynched today, then get another one lynched tomorrow. He doesn't need to lie for two nights, it's probably impossible. Taking down a couple of townies with him would be easy, and you just ate up what he sold you. I think it's because you know he's town.

And saying I'm wrong doesn't prove anything and is a really poor way of defending yourself, but from what we've seen so far this game, that's not really surprising. I was using an actual example to shoot down your hypothetical point of scumhunting through buddies doesn't work.

[charter]

No, SA, you do not need to say what your N0 results were, for the reason I just said.

Ugh, could it be any more obvious hewitt is scum? I think not.

[charter]

Are you guys kidding me? SA claimed how long ago? This just now enters hewitt head a day before deadline?

hewitt wouldn't have unvoted SA if he knew he was lying. Of the two of them, I find hewitt lying to be much more likely.

[charter]

Why is everyone saying that a one for one trade is dumb for scum? They eliminate another power role and get closer to winning. Seems pretty freaking good to me.

[charter]

And plus, now that we have two claimed watchers (complete and total botch), we might as well force them to produce another night of results. I think them both being scum is unlikely. Lynching dramonic today would be ideal.

[charter]

Yeah, I'm not buying that.

[charter]

The only facts are that you and SA are both claiming the other is scum.

[charter]

Am I missing anything?

Hewitt, you do know that assuming SA is lying, you don't know the role of the person you saw last night, right?

SA claimed to know the role of the person he saw, so his claim of the role he saw is something that is important information.

He did? What post did this happen in?

[charter]

So why is he claiming the role of the person he watched?

[charter]

Why are we lynching a claimed watcher on day one? I'm sure hewitt is scum, but not going to vote him now since he claimed watcher.

We need to be lynching dramonic. Let's get a move on.

[charter]

Seems like it makes more sense to force him to come up with another night of actions. Especially from my point of view, since I think he's town.

[charter]

And dramonic is scummy as hell. There's more scum than just you or SA. Dramonic is probably one of them.

[charter]

Ray, shut the hell up.

[charter]

When you have two roles claiming the other is scum, it changes things. You guys seriously don't realize that?

Now we know at least one is town. Before that wasn't the case, so going on a 50/50 shot of lynching a powerrole on day one doesn't seem like a good idea to me. What about you?

[charter]

When has SA lied? Point them out to me because I don't recall any.

[charter]

and how would giving them an extra night change anything?

Wait, it won't, except maybe provide the scum of the two some extra time to setup a better claim to get the other lynched.

OR MAYBE IT WILL NET US AN ADDITIONAL SCUMBAG? WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK POWERROLES ARE IN THIS GAME? TO ACT AS CONFIRMABLE TOWN? NO IT'S TO CATCH SCUM.

Seriously, what is so hard to understand about this.

[charter]

Yeah, I'll deal with whatever terrible accusations you can invent tomorrow.

[charter]

WHAT ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THIS?!

For the love of God if you are a town player I am going to be extremely angry after this game is over.

Regardless of any of your flips, dramonic is still scummy and probably scum, so why wouldn't we lynch him first?

And you have no right to be pissed at anyone for their play when yours has been devoid of any pro town actions and not to mention it's still day one.

Whatever, I'm done posting until next day, this is like screaming at a brick wall.

[charter]

I like how at least two of the scum have been found out on D1. It's very enjoyable.

Careful, if your head gets any bigger, it will explode.

[charter]

Also, no idea what the votecount is (imagine that) but lynching even a probable power role day one is better than no lynching.

unvote, vote SleeplessAssassin

I'm pretty sure I won't be online again before deadline, and a no lynch is worse than literally any other scenario.

[charter]

I like how at least two of the scum have been found out on D1. It's very enjoyable.

Careful, if your head gets any bigger, it will explode.

[charter]

Ray, you think you are hot shit, but what actual scumhunting have you ever done?

[charter]

Yeah, both KK and Scien are probably scum. KK is just activelurker scum and Scien was hidden behind by the hider.

vote Scien

[charter]

Ugh, Ray, you shouldn't have claimed like that since we already had one scum down. You could have just breadcrumbed and tried again.

Obviously if anyone is the watcher and Ray is lying, claim because the game is in the bag.

[charter]

And also, I don't think we should try and find the last scum today/tomorrow, because scum will just NK the people that don't think it's them. We should lynch the two confirmed scums and then the players left alive should do it (though I am hesitant to put the game in the hands of some of you).

[charter]

And I was right the whole fucking time about Sleepless being town. And I argued it tooth and nail. Normally I'd say his claim was disastrous since it outed a real watcher, but it enabled us to bag another scum, so really no harm done.

Was wrong about hewitt, but can't win em all.

[charter]

charter: I am

the only

confirmed townie in the game. DRK is hider and hid behind me N0. I was 100% guaranteed to die tonight. If I didn't give this information, I felt KK would get by as scum.

Right, though it would have been sweet if you didn't correct me so fast and a scum tried to counter.

[charter]

FOS anyone not voting/posting. Ray, it really doesn't matter who we lynch first, but Scien has more votes, so you should switch to him.

[charter]

Yeah, KK and Scien are both scucm, come on out lurkers!

[charter]

MOD, request prod/replacement Octupis, Gregory, ekiM

[charter]

MOD, prod yourself please

[charter]

ATTENTION DRAGONFLY13!

PLEASE CLAIM YOUR ROLE, AND THEN VOTE FOR SCIEN. READING THE THREAD IS UNNECESSARY. THANK YOU.

[charter]

Dragonfly, you need to claim if you're a watcher or not.

Why are you suspicious of Ray?

[charter]

I'm just going to throw some thoughts out there, while I'm thinking of it. I'm not really looking to discuss this, just point it out so everyone can think about it.

If you look at the hypo hider:

Night zero
KK --> charter
DRK --> RayFrost
hewitt --> RayFrost
Octupis --> ekiM
RayFrost --> Charter
Dramonic --> Octupis
charter --> RayFrost
ekim ->no one
gregory -> KK
Scien ->charter

Night one
KK --> dramonic
DRK --> Scien
hewitt --> Kublai Khan
Octupis --> Kublai Khan
RayFrost --> hewitt
Dramonic --> Rayfrost
charter --> Kublai Khan
ekim -> dramonic
gregory -> ekim
Scien -> Rayfrost

KK had three people hypo hiding behind him N1, I think this was the reason he made the kill, pretty much half the town was supposedly going to hide behind him. They didn't think that DRK was the hider, else they would have sent Scien to make the kill.

From this, we (and scum) knew that hewitt was a watcher, so that should mean that at least one of myself and Octupis is town (AT LEAST) because they legitimately thought one of us was the hider and would die hiding behind KK.

I have other thoughts on what the last scum would have claimed to do in the claims, but I'll share that later if I'm alive.

Another thing to think about, I haven't gone back and checked, but it would be pretty easy for scum to eliminate potential hiders from the pool. All they have to do is find a vote, or FOS or attack, or anything like that leveled against the person someone claimed to hide behind. For example, if I had voted Ray day one it's obvious I wasn't the hider since I'd know him to be town (no idea if that happened) but I'm sure that at least some people could be eliminated this way. Might be able to confirm myself or Octupis this way. I'll go and check later, so it'd be great to not end the day before that happens.

unvote

[charter]

Well, when KK kills ray tonight, that will confirm KK as scum beyond a doubt.

[charter]

Ok, we're obviously lynching KK today, but NO ONE VOTE YET.

I want to see if we can confirm myself or Octupis before we lynch him.

[charter]

Actually, screw it. No point in confirming a townie just to get them NK'ed. Have to do it later.

vote KK

[charter]

Well, it could pretty solidly confirm one of us, but I'm not sure it would be able to confirm both of us. I'll think about it some more.

[charter]

unvote

Just realized that we're still missing Octupis and Gregory and Ekim.

MOD prod/replacement status on those three?

[charter]

Ok, finally went back and checked. I actually looked a lot like a hider who hid behind Ray, if you read my posts and search for when I mention him.

Octupis was a potential hider as well, but he didn't really post anything about ekim.

Doesn't look like we can get one of us confirmed through this.

vote Kublai

[charter]

Well, what I was hoping for was for one of us to have voted the person we claimed to hide behind, that would mean the other was town. It's pretty much the same thing you use to confirm or disprove normal investigative role claims.

Oh well, still pretty confident scumhunting will win this one.

[charter]

Bah
Go
Town

[charter]

Damnit

Good job dram.