Open 176 - Night Watch - GAME OVER

[RayFrost]

Oh wow... I fucked up the link, must have picked the URL of the video I was watching by accident. Sorry everyone ^_^;

It's still a great vid though

obv scum misleading the town

[RayFrost]

obv scum misleading the town

Vote: dramonic

. Quick! Maybe we can lynch him before the game starts!

obv scum bussing

vote: DeathRowKitty DRK, DRK, DRK

claim: quadruple voter

[RayFrost]

You caught me : (

Vote: DRK

Scum claim.

Town, let's lynch DRK

[RayFrost]

Usually, mods start the game when we only have one person unconfirmed... so the others aren't waiting around...

[RayFrost]

You seem to think so and I'm willing to take your word for it. If you're not serious, I'd assume you'll tell us before too many votes pile on.

Lame assumption + following charter is noted.

Thank you and have a nice day.

[RayFrost]

What kind of evidence are you looking for before you vote someone then?

Things like what you did:

following somebody with no real reason to do so



On the hider thing... eh... I don't like the idea all that much...

[RayFrost]

dramonic I'm clearly a Mason this time. RayFrost can back me up on this one.

Dude, why'd you claim so early? Now we are outed!

Anyway... seriousness here:

Charter, there is a thing called the RVS that people like to do. That's why people do it. The fact you aren't giving the reasoning for your vote on ekiM is slightly suspicious, etc, etc.

[RayFrost]

People are free to random vote, obviously I'm not the RVS sheriff. I just want to know why they joke voted. I believe I did give my reason for voting ekim. I thought he was likely to kill DDD.

Just saying "I think he is likely" is just about the same as a RV.

Surely, charter, you are aware of the RVS being full of joke-votes all the time? it's to get things started and break the ice.

[RayFrost]

I have a feeling charter is town... maybe.

[RayFrost]

I have a feeling charter is town... maybe.

Really? One person tried to present some solid breaking strategy. I think it was that charter person.

Not that... meta... >.>

Anyway...

I really have no clue where to go right now.

[RayFrost]

@RayFrost: Why don't you like the hypo-hider-claim theory?

Because I didn't get it. I'm fine with it now that it's been explained satisfactorily. Any other questions?

Also:

my top suspects (Based on a mix of gut and fear for KK and just gut for hew and annoyance for the lurkers):

lil hew

all the people not saying stuff (SA, etc, can't be asked to name them all)

KK

[RayFrost]

Yeah, fear. >.> I don't think I have enough experience to read you properly, so I feel more leery toward you.

[RayFrost]

You sound like you're giving in before the game has even really begun RF.

Not at all. I'm saying I'm going to be more likely to hedge my read on KK, regardless of what it is, than on the rest of you.

[RayFrost]

I love you too, lil hew. Now post some content.

[RayFrost]

@ KK:

Not tunelling at all, just lack of confidence in regards to reads. =/

Anyway, I have a lil bit of experience with lil hew from Maf 100 (along with dram), but he was scum that game, and I was a replacement. It'd kinda hard to get a read on him right now.

SA's PBPA on lil hew has very little value and gives off the reek of IoA/WIFOM mix... Thus:

Vote: Sleepless Assassin

Maybe you should stop

sleeping

and post

content

to help the town

scumhunt

.

Commentary on the scien/dram shiznizzle:

Dram does that (vote hoppin') early in the game from my experience with 'im. Null tell, IIRC. Emphasis on the early bit.

Scien's switch is fine and was fine before he explained it. Dram not understanding feels a tid bit suspicious...

[RayFrost]

Ray, Scien is right. The italics are my opinions on what Hewitt said.

As charter said (and yes scien, IIoA, IoA is information over analysis, but they are the same thing), you didn't really do anything with it...

You plopped it in with some (minor) commentary and didn't follow anything through to a logic conclusion/reason for believing hew scum.

[RayFrost]

DRK:

We disagree regarding SA, then. I don't really see how it (the vote) is opportunistic, considering that:

1. I was the first one to even say what I was saying (nobody even hinted at it~)

2. there aren't any other serious votes on SA (IIRC)

Do explain what you feel is so opportunistic about my vote.

[RayFrost]

Well, I wouldn't say my vote on him was un-serious. The fact that he could be qualified as a lurker for the most part and as soon as he made a decent post (in terms of content level), you voted him for IIoA, which, even when I try to look at it from your perspective, is a bit of a questionable charge IMO.

Do you know of ANY charges that WOULD NOT be questionable in the first 7 pages? If so, by all means do tell.

Also, the italics are

mostly

mere comments taht don't give a solid position, feel, read, etc on it.

[RayFrost]

Ray is voting SA because of lurking, so He doesn't know anything of him, except that SA hasnt posted a lot.

Wasn't for lurking. Don't mix me up with DRK. Also, misrep/chainsaw is/are noted.

[RayFrost]

So you guys are saying I don't think Hewitt is scum? I voted him, looked at his posts, said why they look bad, and left my vote. Of course I think he's scum.

You may think it wholeheartedly, but you didn't give much of a reason on it.

Looking at it from the "u r haz reasons" perspective:

1. some WIFOM

2. an accusation based off of said WIFOM

3. missing the logic anywhere that is called analysis~

also, EBWOP on previous thing:

misrep / possible chainsaw

[RayFrost]

If I'm hider, I'll go behind KK tonight.

If I'm hider, I hid behind charter last night.

[RayFrost]

A lil hew lynch is good 75% of the time. In this case, I'm not too certain about it.

[RayFrost]

You know there's a difference between a good lynch on me for legitimately good reasons (which, you know, isn't that rare) but there's not a good case on me right now.

Did you miss the "in this case" bit of my post?

[RayFrost]

A lil hew lynch is good 75% of the time. In this case, I'm not too certain about it.

What about this game makes it a minority 25% of the time?

Furthermore, why are you blocking what is clearly a pressure bandwagon?

A lil hew lynch is good 75% of the time if there is a good case. If not, it fits the 25% of the time.

I didn't realize that. Carry on then.

[RayFrost]

It doesn't help that you aren't defending yourself. RayFrost is putting up a better defense of you than you are.

Your case is built on WIFOM and that I didn't vote charter without voting him. There isn't a defense to even be said here because that case is pretty crappy. I don't think I have to defend myself because your case is so vapid I can't.

Respond to DRK's question that SA posted.

[RayFrost]

Ah, missed that. Thanks~

[RayFrost]

Gregory, I don't know what your fixation with Ray is, but Ray was pretty specific with his reasons when he voted for SA. It wasn't lurking, it was posting information but not analyzing it, which is scummy.

I'm sorry, I misread

Lack of unvote despite supposed "misread" is noted.

What do you think of Hewitt and DRK, Gregory?

I don't see why DRK is scum(I've read all his posts again, and haven't found anything that makes him obv scum, and for hewitt, He hasn't done anything pro-town, which makes him scummy, but I wouldn't lynch him for that.

What, exactly, has DRK done that is "pro-town?" Do you think hewitt is scummy

purely

because of a lack of pro-town traits? How is this strong evidence?

[RayFrost]

DRK has come up with the hypo-claim, which i think is a good idea. Hewitt is talking around a bit, not making cases, defending himself without good explanations. but still I don't find that enough

1. going to pretend I don't see the first part of this post cuz it makes me wish I was a dayvig (I understand Vi a bit better now...).

2. fair enough on DRK

3. what exactly should hewitt be defending himself from? How is defending different from an explanation other than that an explanation can be construed as a fluffy excuse?

4. how, exactly, are cases necessary for one to be town? Scum & town do it.

[RayFrost]

I am looking forward to ekiM's take on this. (he's online)

[RayFrost]

Anyone else want to parrot the "DeathRowKitty is town for coming up with the hypo-claim" argument? I mean, I know it loses that luster of originality every time someone says it, but that doesn't seem to have stopped anyone yet.

it is getting tiresome, isn't it?

@hewitt: If you're not going to defend yourself, could you at least scumhunt maybe. You're making my powerful vote feel weak and ineffectual because it's not pressuring you to do anything.

He should do something, I agree

Alternatively, other people could help pressure hewitt into doing something pro-town. Y'know, for shits & giggles. Might even move the game along.

I'd rather vote gregory for "shits & giggles" over hewitt

[RayFrost]

Do you think Gregory is scum or town? Why?

I'm not fabricating anything. You're going to great lengths to not scumhunt and it's showing.

Hey charter, how about you answer your own question?

Do you think Gregory is scum or town? Why?

[RayFrost]

I am leaning scum. Mostly since he's not doing much of anything.

Ray, you down for a Hewitt lynch?

Sooooo... You think gregory is scum for not doing anything? I assume this means you don't count him voting me, misrepping me, admitting he was wrong, unvoting only after I pointed it out, and spouting the same reason for finding DRK townish as hewitt as doing anything?

And not really lil hew hasn't been helpful yet, but he hasn't done anything scummy yet, either (imo).

Lynch(es) I'm up for:

1. gregory

2. (forced at deadline type of thing instead of "find him scummy") lil hew

[RayFrost]

So Hewitt wants us to sit around with our thumbs up our asses until a power role catches scum, right? How do people not think he's scum?

So Sleepless Assassin wants to misrep, tunnel vision and lynch Hewitt hoping it catches scum, right? How do people not think he's scum? (how easily I applied this to you...)

[RayFrost]

I'm not misrepping. He said he doesn't want to make cases because he doesn't know who is scum. How does he expect us to find them?

There's nothing wrong with tunnel vision if you're right.

Yes, I want to lynch Hewitt and yes I hope he's scum if we lynch him.

Since when is it that, since

he

chooses not to, the rest of use aren't allowed to scumhunt?

Also, making cases != scumhunting

Scumhunting

leads

to cases, but it is not part of the

process

of performing it.

[RayFrost]

4. how, exactly, are cases necessary for one to be town? Scum & town do it.

a horse is allways an animal, but not all animals are horses.
townies make cases, but not all cases are made by town.
making cases doesn't make someone town, but not making cases does make someone scummy.

Say that to chamber. He doesn't make cases. Chamber cases mean chamber scum.

Townies don't need to make cases to be townies. Not all townies make cases.

I find the sudden switch to SA to be very surprising/suspicious. Dramonic, explain your sudden change from newb town to wanting his lynch. Now.

[RayFrost]

Yeah, it's Hewitt lynch time. He says SA is being opportunistic scum, but SA voted Hewitt before anyone else. Hardly what I'd call opportunistic.

Well, let's consider the fact SA has barely posted at all and hasn't really pushed for it or tried convincing anybody. He's said he thinks hewitt is scum with (imo) crappy reasoning and then just pretty much sat back and watched people's reactions.

[RayFrost]

Since when is it that, since he chooses not to, the rest of use aren't allowed to scumhunt? Also, making cases != scumhunting. Scumhunting leads to cases, but it is not part of the process of performing it.

I guess I am confused here too then. How do everyone else's actions come into play? Are you suggesting it's helpful to sit around and wait for other people to do the investigation for you? As for making cases != scumhunting, that is true, but how do you expect the scum hunting to be performed? Just voting for people without any explaination, and waiting around until this is done enough to call someone scummy?

SA said hewitt wants the

town

to sit on their asses and wait for PRs to do the work for them.

I asked him how hewitt not actively taking part forces us to not do so.

Are you making cases in your scum hunting right now? oh, snap, you aren't. You are asking questions instead. Another method is reaction hunting, which a (imo) prominent member here uses known as Albert B. Rampage.

You ignoring other methods of scumhunting and trying to subtly help SA out of the spotlight is noted.

[RayFrost]

Fair enough, scien, re the re toward me.

[RayFrost]

ITT, Charter reveals himself as town to anybody with meta on him.

ITT, ekiM and those on SA's side say that all on the side of hewitt are obv scum

ITT, I somehow resist the urge to point out that more than the (max) number of scum is on hew's side and that two of them are people that have meta on him-scum (me/dram).

ITT, I grab a gas mask, put it on, and toss tear gas into the mob to get them to stfu.

Anyway...

hewitt has been active, he's been consistent in his playstyle (lil hew was inconsistent as scum in maf 100), and he isn't just spouting the same arguments that others are making (when I CCed his vig claim in D3 or so and gave points for how he's scum that could be used against me, he just basically said "I know what you are but what am I" esque stuff).

SA is the guy I think is scum, let me tell you why so that you don't let him fly by and touch the sky with his victory.

1. votes lil hew without giving analysis (his PbPA doesn't deserve the A part)

2. OMGUSes me when I find him scummy [insert side-note regarding gregory]

3. basically says anybody defending lil hew is obv scum oh, and deathnote who hasn't really chimed in all that much

4. has yet to provide even remotely valid reasoning for finding me scummy other than "you defend hewitt, you scum" reasoning, which is pretty crappy.

Just something I feel needs to be put in really large letters, so it's easier to understand (kinda like saying things louder and more slowly)

NOT EVERYBODY WHO DEFENDS A PERSON IS SCUM. HERE IS WHY:

1. THERE IS THE SITUATION WHERE IT IS TOWN DEFENDING TOWN

2. THERE IS THE SITUATION WHERE IT IS TOWN DEFENDING SCUM

3. IF THE PERSON SOLIDLY BELIEVES THE ONE THEY ARE DEFENDING IS TOWN, THEN WHY THE

FUCK

HECK SHOULD THEY BOW DOWN TO PEER PRESSURE?

4. PRs EXIST IN THIS GAME

oh, and hewitt shouldn't be lynched cuz he'll do better D2 or die.

[RayFrost]

Ray, my post against hewitt was me doing my best. Just because it's not good enough for you doesn't mean it's wrong.

If that's your best as town, I'd love to see your scum play, I really would.

How have I OMGUS'd you at all? I'm not saying "Ray is scum because he's voting me." I'm saying "Ray is scum because he is defending Hewitt very hard for no good reason, agreeing with everything Hewitt says, buddying to Hewitt, and attacking anyone who calls Hewitt scummy".

Okay, so you'll ignore everything I've said in regards to hewitt and just completely misrep me. thanks for that. Btw, if I'm town and have a town read on somebody and the majority of others don't, are you saying I should just stfu and not interfere and try saving one of the few town reads I have? If so, by all means explain that. How about I just summarize my reasoning for hewitt:

META - it's awesome it's also why I think charter is town you should try it out some time. Hell, you can start by getting some meta on me from these threads.

On the chainsaw defending hewitt notice:

1. I think charter is town, yet he's attacking hewitt quite hard

2. I have a neutral read on ekiM, yet he's attacking hewitt

3. I have a scum read on you, and you are attacking hewitt

I'd say 1/3 is not everybody.

I don't care who defends Hewitt. In your case, it's the way you are doing it. I find Dramonic scummy for his complete turn in his stance and I find Death slightly scummy for the way he blindly followed charter on ekim until that lost support.

Yeah, meta is still awesome. Charter is still a town read, you are still scummy, and ekiM is still a neutral read. Also, what about me using meta as a reason for finding somebody to be a town read when their play greatly differs from how I saw them play as scum something hard to understand?

[RayFrost]

Where is KK?

[RayFrost]

I'm saying even if Charter is in some kind of blind tunneling range on you, he's playing to his town-meta.

This, except the blind tunneling rage IS charter's town meta.

[RayFrost]

My meta on charter is more along the line of "trigger-happy"

Town-charter finds one player and focuses on them with hyper-tunnel and then, when that person is dead, moves on. He virtually ignores everybody else unless they somehow directly relate to the tunneled person.

[RayFrost]

ITT, Charter reveals himself as town to anybody with meta on him.

Chartertown's meta is

really

easy for charterscum to fake.

I really find it hard to believe that all the SA voters think he is scum who forgot who he NK'ed. It really makes no sense whatsoever.

Seemed awfully contrived, to be honest. And consistent with the overall bad newbscum play of Sleepless Assassin.

I'm willing to give hewitt the benefit of the doubt and let him survive for today. He's fallen to 4th on my probable scum list (after Sleepless Assassin, Scien, & Gregory)

I've played with charterscum replacing in (my first game, pegged both scum on instinct but failed to prove it town still won, though). According to camn (who also replaced in as a townie), charterscum self-destructs rather easily... even if he does fake it, I'm pretty sure I can still get a decent enough read on him.

re your reads:

Would you mind explaining how you made your decision on scien/gregory? I have my own reasons, but I don't know your's.


For scien:

Waffling in regards to SA is noted.

SA omgused by saying, basically, "all of the people defending hewitt are scum plus deathnote" without going into why. Then, when I pointed it out, he said he doesn't like

how

I've defended hewitt, but he has yet to actually explain what he doesn't like at all, making it a very fluffy excuse (similar fluff for drammy dram).

[RayFrost]

Your insistence that I can not be objective is noted.

You can just say "neutral read" instead of saying "he deserves being questioned, but I don't really think he's scummy, but..."

Misrepresentation is noted.

[RayFrost]

And by that I mean... You say I can't not look at SA, because that 'distracts the town'. And if I decide to look at him that means 'Oh you are waffling'.

Quite frankly, go to hell. I can look at who I want, when I want, and if I catch something I want to examine from someone who in the past I thought sounded ok, then I am going to freaking look at it. Same if I catch something from someone that you are 'oh so sure is town' seems iffy to me, I am going to question him. Why are you so concerned about who I can question and when?

I don't need to cater to you.

Offensive language is a no-no~

Anyway, the SA bit, you can choose to look at him, but merely saying he deserves to be questioned and not actually questioning is suspicious to me.

You are free to look at / question whomever you choose, but I am also free to do so, and I currently am devoting some attention to you.

Also, what is your response to my evidence that SA has, in fact, OMGUSed? You seem to have missed that in your heated response to me.

[RayFrost]

Nope still don't see it. He is being unhelpful I agree with that, but calling it OMGUSing is a misnomer.

For him to be OMGUSing, he would have to be casting suspicion your way because you cast suspicion his way. But in your own words you are calling him out on this because he is 'suspecting you for not suspecting him'. That's not OMGUS.

I agree that not explaining your actions when you make them is sketchy. But its not OMGUS.

My issue here was that I had been suspecting him long before he showed

any

suspicions of me. And now he suddenly comes up with suspecting me. Thus, OMGUS that he's trying to hide behind a thin film of fluff imo.

[RayFrost]

@Gregory and Octopis
Would you be willing to vote SA?

If we have a majority of players ready to vote SA, the hypo-claim should continue.

Extension of this:

If you are willing to vote SA, say why and what makes you find him a better choice over the other lynch candidate (hewitt) or, if you aren't, why you find hewitt a better candidate (if he's your choice).

[RayFrost]

KK --> charter
DRK --> RayFrost
hewitt --> RayFrost
Octupis --> ekiM
RayFrost --> Charter

KK --> dramonic
DRK --> Scien
hewitt --> Kublai Khan
Octupis --> Kublai Khan
RayFrost --> hewitt

Who I'm hiding behind changed cuz of difference in read from previously.

[RayFrost]

Only on the left side, dram.

[RayFrost]

charter hasn't been on to do so

gregory is a lurker-ish type

SA is scum

scien is scum with SA

ekiM is just consistently doing: inconsistently posting

[RayFrost]

The claim doesn't actually give us much in the way of helpful information, considering the circumstances:

the person SA saw could be either the watcher of the hider

great. Virtually no helpful info.

As it is, I'm not willing to lynch a claimed watcher, considering the circumstances.

I'm completely fine with a gregory lynch (I was before, and I still am...)

unvote, vote gregory

I think it is best for the town to adopt a watch and wait attitude toward SA. Better to avoid the risk of putting a claimed PR out of the picture on D1.

re DRK:

SA could far more easily claim hider and claimed to have hidden behind somebody he knew was town to lead into the WIFOM if we ever lynch him of... "was who he claimed to hide behind town he was trying to frame or scum he was trying to protect?"

The choice of watcher is actually worse for a scum player:

1. it gets rid of a nice scum choice of WIFOMing the shit out of town (or trying to)

2. it gives an easy to confirm role (as in confirm as true/false)

If SA lives 'till the morning (we aren't lynching SA today), then we should consider things...

AND SA SHOULD CLAIM RESULTS. without giving names, of course (assuming SA doesn't watch a kill being done).

If SA is non-compliant, I will be willing to have a SA lynch.

[RayFrost]

Watcher is easier to claim since he'd be outing not one but 2 PRs.

Not really. The watchers don't need to claim. In fact, it'd be retarded for the watchers to claim.

Tbh, I can see how watcher is good, I guess...

watcher means no CC cuz there are two...

gah, I just saw the WIFOM in it.

Still, gregory lynch to avoid the risk of SA being an actual watcher.

[RayFrost]

It'd go through even if he died.

I'm not willing to risk the possibility that he is one of the real watchers, considering there is another player I think is scum.

[RayFrost]

Option C would be awesome and very pro-town but I honestly don't think that SA would do something like that. But if he's saying that he's the watcher and he knows two power roles I really don't believe that at all.

You mean one + himself, right?

[RayFrost]

Gregory should claim.

[RayFrost]

Well, among other things we're waiting for people to vote him. If you agree with his lynch you should vote him, not me <_<

This.

ekiM:

SA did, but I said that in regards to you hoping it would get you to post... >.>"

[RayFrost]

No, second watcher do what you want. The WIFOM caused for the scum will be nice.

SA had better watch who he knows is town or he better have a guilty tomorrow.

Tomorrow we need to massclaim.

Why do we massclaim tomorrow? I don't really see how that's gonna help...

[RayFrost]

Massclaiming in LYLO would be dumb. Then we'd have to actually think.

Charter, how does the above NOT imply that town will mislynch today and tomorrow?

[RayFrost]

Well, it assumes that happens. If you want to put a negative connotation on it you could say "imply".

imply/assume take your pick, it doesn't change a thing.

You are assuming that town will fail twice in a row, which leads me to believe that you don't, in fact, think gregory is scum. Thus, I'm suddenly a bit leery.

Also, you going from "LYNCH HEWITT" to "LYNCH GREGORY" in what feels like a heartbeat is getting my attention, now...

[RayFrost]

Unvote, Vote Gregory

. Deadline is coming up, so he's our lynch whether I like it or not.

Why wouldn't you like a gregory lynch? Why vote somebody you don't want lynched? Why are you still so scummy even after a watcher claim?

Claim the role of the person you saw, if you don't mind. This will give us information even if you die tonight.

Charter

:

What is your reasoning for calling DRK obv scum buddies with lil hew?

[RayFrost]

Oh wow, hewitt actually isn't far behind Gregory.

MOD, can we get a deadline extension?

Have to switch back to Gregory if not.

Charter:

What is your reasoning for calling DRK obv scum buddies with lil hew?

Argh, don't make me do stuff. A lot of it is I think both of them are really scummy, but I'll see if there are some direct connections for you.

FOS everyone not voting, for good measure.

Lame request of deadline extension is noted.

Laziness is noted.

Btw, charter...

Who OTHER THAN SA do you think is town? From what I can tell, you don't really have a positive opinion of like... 90% of the players.

[RayFrost]

If you just policy unvote all claimed powerroles day one, then you really open up the door for scum to wreck havoc on the town. What if SA is scum, then tomorrow claims a guilty on someone. You mislynch twice and only get one scum in the process. AMAZING TRADE if he's scum. But no, everyone unvotes, so he's clearly town. Not lynching powerroles (especially in an open setup when scum know what role to claim) just lets scum hurt town even more.

I want SA to claim the role of the person he saw for a reason.

[RayFrost]

No, SA, you do not need to say what your N0 results were, for the reason I just said.

Ugh, could it be any more obvious hewitt is scum? I think not.

SA hasn't posted, so wtf are you responding to?

[RayFrost]

I'm not outting another power role for no reason.

Ummm... YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT KNOWS THE NAME OF THE OTHER PERSON IF YOU JUST SAY THE ROLE.

Now say the damned role.

[RayFrost]

HAHA! It doesn't even matter! SA just claimed an impossible role based on night actions, SA you just royally fucked yourself over that was the wrong power role to claim lol. Valiant effort though it almost worked for a second.

Vote: Sleepless Assassin

Explain.


Now.

[RayFrost]

Hmmmm....

Gah, if SA flips watcher, then we lynch hewitt tomorrow, making this dumb for scum (1-1 trade hurts scum more than town).

I've found Hewitt to be more town than SA, so I'm more inclined to believe his claim. That said, I need to think this over @_@

[RayFrost]

He can't be the other watcher, it's impossible. If he was the other watcher he would've had to watch the same house that I did and would've learned that A) I am a power role and he wouldn't have attempted to lynch me and B) wouldn't have claimed that he only knew of one other power role he would've detected both us there.

ooooooor... you could be fakeclaiming. Which is why I'm thinking about it

[RayFrost]

Also always a possibility. SA's certainly welcome at taking a stab at proving me wrong.

Yes.

[RayFrost]

Question~~~~

Why are you jumping on SA before he has a chance to claim the role of the individual he saw in order for us to determine the validity of his claim vs the validity of Hew's?

[RayFrost]

Am I missing anything?

Hewitt, you do know that assuming SA is lying, you don't know the role of the person you saw last night, right?

SA claimed to know the role of the person he saw, so his claim of the role he saw is something that is important information.

[RayFrost]

Yeah, after the hypo hider thing, I know if the person I saw is a watcher or a hider. That means I know one of our power role's exact role.

I'm not saying what I'm doing tonight. Town has no reason to know and scum wants nothing more than to know.

Kublai, I haven't disappeared. I'm just not online as much as most people around here (except the beginning of last week because I was sick and pretty much sat at my computer non-stop, but I don't usually do that).

Unvote, Vote Gregory

. Deadline is coming up, so he's our lynch whether I like it or not.

[RayFrost]

So why is he claiming the role of the person he watched?

Reasons:

1. he's the lynch, so he should claim the role

2. WIFOM is fun

3. he's prob scum.

[RayFrost]

Why are we lynching a claimed watcher on day one? I'm sure hewitt is scum, but not going to vote him now since he claimed watcher.

We need to be lynching dramonic. Let's get a move on.

deflecting despite previous apprehensions, etc, is noted

[RayFrost]

And I am scummy as hell. There's more scum than just

you or

SA. I totally am one of them.

fixed.

[RayFrost]

And I am scummy as hell. There's more scum than just

you or

SA. I totally am one of them.

fixed.

QFT

[RayFrost]

And dramonic is scummy as hell. There's more scum than just you or SA. Dramonic is probably one of them.

This whole line of reasoning is just silliness.

QFPT (p = partial)

it's not reasonable enough to be a line

[RayFrost]

Ray, shut the hell up. I don't want to be lynched and flip scum yet.

No thanks.

Too bad.

unvote, vote charter

[RayFrost]

Yeah, after the hypo hider thing, I know if the person I saw is a watcher or a hider.

That means I know one of our power role's exact role.

I'm not saying what I'm doing tonight. Town has no reason to know and scum wants nothing more than to know.

Kublai, I haven't disappeared. I'm just not online as much as most people around here (except the beginning of last week because I was sick and pretty much sat at my computer non-stop, but I don't usually do that).

Unvote, Vote Gregory

. Deadline is coming up, so he's our lynch whether I like it or not.

[RayFrost]

He said he based it on the Hypo claim.

And Ray, why're you voting Charter exactly?

he's scum.

[RayFrost]

Why are we lynching a claimed watcher on day one? I'm sure hewitt is scum, but not going to vote him now since he claimed watcher.

We need to be lynching dramonic. Let's get a move on.

deflecting despite previous apprehensions, etc, is noted

[RayFrost]

And here is mafia lesson 1, yes, you don't lynch confirmable power roles day one (which watcher isn't one). What are you going to do when tomorrow SA claims to have watched someone and they didn't go anywhere? Tells us nothing. Absolutely nothing. And if you seriously subscribe to this philosophy, how can you ever lynch scum day one? All scum have to do is claim a power role and you policy unvote them. That's idiotic.

[RayFrost]

cute backtracking on Charter's part
However that doesn't change the fact we have 2 watchers CCing each other. Lynching one is the optimal play, Charter can be dealt with later.

True.

Waiting for SA's role claim for the other person, though.

[RayFrost]

Uh... nevermind... I'm retarded.

Carry on.

Charter opinion, now.

SA opinion, now.

[RayFrost]

and how would giving them an extra night change anything?

Wait, it won't, except maybe provide the scum of the two some extra time to setup a better claim to get the other lynched.

OR MAYBE IT WILL NET US AN ADDITIONAL SCUMBAG? WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK POWERROLES ARE IN THIS GAME? TO ACT AS CONFIRMABLE TOWN? NO IT'S TO CATCH SCUM.

Seriously, what is so hard to understand about this.

We already have a second scumbag... YOU!!!

[RayFrost]

Ooooh myyyyy Goooood charter this is has been hashed out so many times.

Yeah, after the hypo hider thing, I know if the person I saw is a watcher or a hider. That means I know one of our power role's exact role.

He can't know the power role he claimed he detected exact role.

AFTER HYPO HIDER MEANS HE KNOWS DUE TO HIDER CLAIM STUFF.

[RayFrost]

Charter opinion, now.

SA opinion, now.

SA - same as before, possibly lying. I think I agree with you folks that I buy Hewitt's claim over his, however that doesn't mean that Hewitt might be the one lying, I'm talking likelyhood here. If you told me I had to lynch one over the other at this moment, it would be SA.

Also, up until like 30 minutes ago, I thought that a watcher could not know the roles, however I know know of one way he could be relatively sure of a specific role (not trying to give him an answer my hardest here). So even him saying that doesn't prove he is lying yet in my mind.

Charter? I'm not trying to be insulting here, but due to past meta, I have seen him be just as irrational and unhelpful as town. He's not playing any differently than normal.

Watcher can't from

just

the night action results. Needs more info.

"Charter's town play is easy to fake for charter-scum" - you and KK

[RayFrost]

As for charter, yes I said that, however, you are asking me if he is scummy now? No, unhelpful and irrational. Just because he is unhelpful and irrational doesn't mean he is scum is my point. He does just as bad as town.

Charter's irrationality as town focuses on a SINGLE player.

As scum, he flails irrationally.

He's flailing right now.

[RayFrost]

Sorry, I only have personal meta on him from one game as town. You are claiming that you have seen him as scum and have witnessed him targeting everyone?

Less everybody more...

He chooses a person, goes after them, stops when he lacks enough support, shifts gears and goes elsewhere.

"Charter tends to self-destruct as scum" - camn in my first game here

Charter was scum.

[RayFrost]

LOL... a Camn quote. That lady scares me.

Er, do you have a link to that game?

If you are asking that I can see Charter "choosing a person, going after them, stopping when he lacks enough support, and shifting gears and going elsewhere", then I think I agree.

I was just chalking it up to typical Charter though.

Me, camn, and charter replaced in to the game.

Ether and LlamaFluff were in it too.

[RayFrost]

Heh, brief skim of him in iso makes it look like he is doing it worse here than he was there (although he was doing it there too). (I'll give it more of a read tomorrow when I am not tired and less drunk).

Would you agree with that statement? And if so, does it mean anything to you?

He was in a tighter situation there than here.

[RayFrost]

Okay, I read through the sudden mountain of posts and have come to the obvious conclusion that SA is scum

and charter and Scien are his scumbuddies

.

Here's what needs to happen in order of importance:
1. SA needs to be lynched.
2. SA should claim the role of the PR he knows (but not the player's name).
3. Anyone who wants to change his hypo-hider claim for N1 should do so before deadline.

4. We need to spam the thread with more simulposts to try to convince charter that SA is scum.

4 is not possible, since charter and SA are scum.

And ekiM is obv the last scum

[RayFrost]

(1) I'm trying to think why he'd come out and counter like that though. All I can think of is he wants to force me to claim who the other power role is or Gregory is his scumbuddy and he wants to take the heat off of Gregory knowing that he (Hewitt) is seen as scummy already anyway.



(2) I don't know. The reason why doesn't really matter considering he's already done it and has to be scum. Ray is almost definitely his scumbuddy.

1. WIFOM

2. OMGUS

Nice combo fail there, SA.

Since you are so utterly unwilling to claim the role (not even the name) of the person that you have figured out

, and you are unwilling to even consider the fact you are scum

...

You are obv scum.

vote: sleepless assassin

[RayFrost]

I like how at least two of the scum have been found out on D1. It's very enjoyable.

[RayFrost]

Also, no idea what the votecount is (imagine that) but lynching even a probable power role day one is better than no lynching.

unvote, vote SleeplessAssassin

I'm pretty sure I won't be online again before deadline, and a no lynch is worse than literally any other scenario.

ITT scum make themselves obvious and do a last minute bus on their partner with a flimsy excuse.

[RayFrost]

Ray, you think you are hot shit, but what actual scumhunting have you ever done?

Oh charter, are you really want to be going down the abrasive route like last time?

[RayFrost]

Ray, you think you are hot shit, but what actual scumhunting have you ever done?

Oh charter, do you really want to be going down the abrasive route like last time?

[RayFrost]

Mod: could you delete the first one of these posts? Accidentally posted while still making the post. Thank you very much

[RayFrost]

I didn't realize that was the hammer, but I'm cool with that.

[RayFrost]

vote: KublaiKhan

Hello scum.

[RayFrost]

phweet, I'm confirmed town with DRK flip.

Since I'm probably gonna die tonight anyway, I'm gonna claim.

I'm the

second watcher

.

I watched dram N0, DDD targeted him.

I watched Hewitt N1, KK targetted him, nobody else did so.

We have two scum.

I will die tonight.

We have two scum, we should be finding the last before lynching.

[RayFrost]

Well, let's not waste this info. KK or Scien lynches are optimal, obviously.

what is important is finding that third scum.

My current bet is on ekiM or charter.

[RayFrost]

Ummm... DRK hid behind you. He died. You are thus scum.

KK killed Hewitt, I saw this. He is scum.

Scien, you can't escape the truth. You should give up on trying.

[RayFrost]

I think I agree with charter... give scum minimal information and work from the survivors.

charter: I am

the only

confirmed townie in the game. DRK is hider and hid behind me N0. I was 100% guaranteed to die tonight. If I didn't give this information, I felt KK would get by as scum.

[RayFrost]

KK --> charter

DRK --> RayFrost

hewitt --> RayFrost
Octupis --> ekiM
RayFrost --> Charter
Dramonic --> Octupis
charter --> RayFrost

KK --> dramonic
DRK --> Scien
hewitt --> Kublai Khan
Octupis --> Kublai Khan
RayFrost --> hewitt
Dramonic --> Rayfrost
charter --> Kublai Khan

[RayFrost]

Sigh. And there is your second scum.

Way to totally attack the easy target. Bet you are totally jumping for joy at this point.

Town... look at Dramonic's play and tell me it looks protown. Attacking everyone in sight all game long. Jeze.

Scum flailing is cute.

[RayFrost]

Who is flailing? Dramonic is scum so hard its amazing. Did I suggest otherwise?

Thanks for not denying that you are scum.

Are you bussing your third partner, scien? If so, many thanks to you, if not, please just hush.

[RayFrost]

As I have already said... your attacks on any convenient target so far in this game.

Early game? Who ever was the bandwagon, or close to becoming one.

Now? The townie who was supposedly targeted by the confirmed hider who died.

Near future? Charter based on... well who knows what you will turn up.

I ask to the town, if these people are so sure about their convictions, where is their votes?

obviously, we are waiting for the other scum to post (and gregory, and octupis, and ekiM) so that we can determine who the third scum is, fool! >:p

You are confirmed scum cuz the confirmed hider targeted you.

[RayFrost]

Confirmed hider yes. Confirmed target no. There is no way for him to have targeted me last night outside of wrong results, and I just don't believe wrong results happened.

Hypo-hider claim... hider has no need to lie...

Obv scum is obv scum.

[RayFrost]

And closed minded watcher, is closed minded.

Says the obv scum.

[RayFrost]

FOS anyone not voting/posting. Ray, it really doesn't matter who we lynch first, but Scien has more votes, so you should switch to him.

Ehhh... fine. I'll do so later.

[RayFrost]

Kublai, gregory, ekiM, and octupis not posting at all so far has been noted.

[RayFrost]

I'm a watcher.

I'm not fakeclaiming my result.

It says, quite clearly, in my PM that

Kublai Khan

is the

only

one that visited hewitt in the night.

KK's lynch will not be a mislynch.

Also, KK... DRK came up with the idea of the hypo hider so the hider could

secretely claim his real actions

, not make up fake ones.

Seriously, your point A is pretty much the same as Scien's defense, so you saying he's obv-Scum is the pinnacle of hypocrosy and desperate scum bussing.

Sorry, but it won't work.

Also, np on not posting (I said that more for the sake of the more inactive people than you). After all, you are scum that will die. Why bother posting?

[RayFrost]

The scum appeals are so very funny

Yeah, they are.

I wonder if the last scum will reveal himself in his actions today.

[RayFrost]

Seriously, your point A is pretty much the same as Scien's defense, so you saying he's obv-Scum is the pinnacle of hypocrisy

^This.

Of course, scum have to bus each other here, so it makes sense that he'd try that.

[RayFrost]

this is annoying...

vote: scien

[RayFrost]

MOD, prod yourself please

lol

[RayFrost]

omg... two replacements? really?

[RayFrost]

unvote

vote: RayFrost

Longer days help town.

ITT scum has given up and is reverting to joking in order to seem light hearted.

(also, I'm annoyed that we need two replacements, not that the lynch will take longer to do, so that's misrep)

[RayFrost]

ATTENTION DRAGONFLY13!

PLEASE CLAIM YOUR ROLE, AND THEN VOTE FOR SCIEN. READING THE THREAD IS UNNECESSARY. THANK YOU.

QFT

[RayFrost]

Otherwise suspicious of KK and RF, will try to get around to a read this weekend.

...

you are suspicious of me?

really?

[RayFrost]

Okay, I'm back, kinda. I am vanilla townie. I am not watcher. The evidence against Scien seems pretty conclusive and your defence Scien, isn't convincing me.

Vote Scien

I think that is L-1 now.

opinion on me and kk?

[RayFrost]

lol @ KK hoping I was dumb enough to think I wasn't obv watcher

I was confirmed town regardless due to DRK's N0 hiding.

I had to claim in order to get it out before my death.

Still, dram did well (my meta on him would've gotten him if I was still alive ), and I thought he was town for the first bits of the game.

[RayFrost]

SA:

NEVER fakeclaim as town.

Ever.

At all.

Unless you are Battle Mage.