Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[giuseppina]

have insidious feeling that everything in head is all wrong but do not know how to go about addressing that either

[giuseppina]

i think i slightly scumread everyone on TGP and only TGP on fireisredsir

i guess the main difference is you townreading furtiveglance vs me townreading fireisredsir

could you walk me through how you got from heavily suspecting aubrey to here (unless it was simply the looking at games aubrey provided which felt inconclusive to me but i did not do so in an extremely thorough manner)

[giuseppina]

will add relooking over those to homework pile

[giuseppina]

oh hm i have done that as both alignments many times but i do not know if i would be an outlier in that regard

especially if i am a scums at the time and i think there are superficial similarities that might be found in both datasets because then it is like, ‘why would it be providing evidence against itself and also this town game doesn’t look at all like the current game but this one kinda does’ ya know

[giuseppina]

TGP I'm still confused why you didn't clarify that you didn't think it wasn't a hammer when you voted.

You looked at the E-4 post from Shurro, you said "nah", counted yourself, miscounted (fine so far), then... didn't clarify it was not a hammer? The post after the vote also reads a lot a like a post hammer post to me.

vote explanation?
announcing l-1/l-2 seems like a courtesy from my older days but it didn't actually come to my mind to announce l-1 lol

wait while you're here what gave you the impression that shirou thinks i am unsortable or that shirou believes in my ability

wait please this time

i am referring to your readslist not the quoted post of course was just on mobile and didn’t want to go fetch due to time concerns

[giuseppina]

TGP I'm still confused why you didn't clarify that you didn't think it wasn't a hammer when you voted.

You looked at the E-4 post from Shurro, you said "nah", counted yourself, miscounted (fine so far), then... didn't clarify it was not a hammer? The post after the vote also reads a lot a like a post hammer post to me.

vote explanation?
announcing l-1/l-2 seems like a courtesy from my older days but it didn't actually come to my mind to announce l-1 lol

wait while you're here what gave you the impression that shirou thinks i am unsortable or that shirou believes in my ability

wait please this time

i am referring to your readslist not the quoted post of course was just on mobile and didn’t want to go fetch due to time concerns

oh i remember them saying it a couple times (pina is strong and sorts well?) i can try to iso shirou but would prefer not to until i get to computer later

hm

i think you may be confusing shirou with aristeia who does generally believe in my ability to find the scums but i do not really understand how that extends to you not thinking you would be able to read me

[giuseppina]

Hot take Gimly + Shurro + X

Shurro went all in mode right after lucian replace out was announced and wanted to avoid day ending there.

was wondering aloud about this earlier but fireisredsir gave a few counterpoints that seemed to make some sense to me can find one sec

[giuseppina]

i think there’s probably also noteworthy associatives with lucian (now gimli) since shirou kept asking aristeia about lucian/una solve and others had voiced suspicion of lucian at various points but shirou only ever focused on una

like some sort of implied if aristeia wrong and una is not mafia then lucian is not mafia either but aristeia probably is mafia? all of which doesn’t really add up

its possible

my lean town on lucian is independent of other reads and is based on his own play. i think this is a game where he would be more likely to struggle to really sink his teeth into it (which imo it felt like that was the case) as town than he would as scum

he also has been complaining about being so tired of being scum with potatoes and shirou may be many things but a potato he is not

so i kinda think lucian's lack of engagement and motivation is slightly antiassociative with shirou who is more than willing to do the heavy lifting that lucian is tired of doing

neither of those things are probably rigorous enough to fully base a read on, but from spec im allowed to make those sort of reads without being challenged on them and my accuracy is generally higher than it is when im in the game so idk maybe ill allow myself to give it a little weight

Also, I will be lazy this game. That is what I told myself, at least. University is killing me right now. Will I end up going back on that and posting a lot anyway? Probably. But I will try not to.

he did say from the start that he was going to be lazy but idk i think he just felt kinda lost most of the game. like he wasn't sure what to do or where to go

the only time ive seen him even vaguely like that as scum was in spring fling dance but i still think there it felt like he clearly had goals and direction

i don't think it's an inability to engage with the game from the mafia side of things bc he was getting several people suspecting him and one of his favourite angles into the game as scum is arguing with people who scumread him

whereas town is less sure that arguing is going to be productive especially if he knows that his contributions so far haven't been super towny

so if he's scum i feel like it has to kinda be an intentional choice to give off lost and confused townie vibes which just doesn't really feel like the play here? it wasn't really working

[giuseppina]

was wondering aloud about this earlier but fireisredsir gave a few counterpoints that seemed to make some sense to me can find one sec

though it does still seem possible to me yeah

[giuseppina]

Hot take Gimly + Shurro + X

Shurro went all in mode right after lucian replace out was announced and wanted to avoid day ending there.

i guess in addition to it being a desire to avoid the day ending there it allows the mafia team to have the night to get the new member up to speed and such instead of having to do it live

[giuseppina]

Tbh i wouldn't even mind being a wagon, maybe it'll motivate me to solve.

if you are town and the wagon does not motivate you to solve then what

[giuseppina]

[giuseppina]

This song creepy as hell

Why post it

checked the game read the posts saw it was at 1999 thought maybe petapan was waiting for pagetop so i posted what i was listening to

pedit: i quite like it as well

[giuseppina]

wait was that actually hammer +/

can someone do the votecount thing please

[giuseppina]

i think only e-2?

fireisredsir, gimli, norwegianboyee, furtiveglance, save the dragons

?

please no end day yet

[giuseppina]

i think only e-2?

fireisredsir, gimli, norwegianboyee, furtiveglance, save the dragons

?

please no end day yet

oh that’s e-1

11 alive

!

yeah please an unvote

[giuseppina]

thankyou

and also

is there really a rush? didn’t you just say there were wagons you wanted more? do you really think gimli/shirou wagons are infeasible here?

[giuseppina]

mmm it’s like

i scumread thegoldenparadox too i do

but things do not feel

right

pedit: @save the dragons - i have more time to sit down and actually look at the game on weekends and would like to see shirou’s thoughts when shirou decides to return and it seems cat scratch fever wants to hear from klick as well and I certainly would not mind having more content there

and it’s like if thegoldenparadox is mafia sure partners probably aren’t going to try to heroically save thegoldenparadox at this point - only shirou’s klick push could really potentially be described as that and if so it was, uh, quite unsuccessful and given up on - but other random votes and heatchecks potentially noteworthy

but i don’t know maybe it’s unreasonable to delay on account of us if thegoldenparadox is actually inevitable

[giuseppina]

mmm it’s like

i scumread thegoldenparadox too i do

but things do not feel

right

pedit: @save the dragons - i have more time to sit down and actually look at the game on weekends and would like to see shirou’s thoughts when shirou decides to return and it seems cat scratch fever wants to hear from klick as well and I certainly would not mind having more content there

and it’s like if thegoldenparadox is mafia sure partners probably aren’t going to try to heroically save thegoldenparadox at this point - only shirou’s klick push could really potentially be described as that and if so it was, uh, quite unsuccessful and given up on - but other random votes and heatchecks potentially noteworthy

but i don’t know maybe it’s unreasonable to delay on account of us if thegoldenparadox is actually inevitable

like furtiveglance has not felt particularly towny to me and i can sit and look through those aubrey games again tomorrow

[giuseppina]

okay let’s assume thegoldenparadox flips red and i am not nightkilled; how would you judge me

[giuseppina]

… excellent

[giuseppina]

also the entire point of that post was with regards to you scumreading toto for things that are not actually scum indicative?

but now you are onto ‘thegoldenparadox is definitely a scums and fireisredsir is likely their partner’, so

pedit:@furtiveglance

[giuseppina]

it generally feels like norwegianboyee is

here

to me but not really pushing the game in a direction and that’s not really what i would expect from norwegianboyee as town

like it’s not the lack of ‘solving’ or anything it would be weird if norwegianboyee started presenting cases or something but the lack of pushing for what norwegianboyee wants is odd to me like i kinda assumed in previous games that that is how norwegianboyee sorts - simply by pushing whoever and gauging responses but there’s a chance that’s an altogether inaccurate assumption on my part as it was largely formed when i was playing as a scums

[giuseppina]

^@klick

[giuseppina]

shirou and thegoldenparadox wagons still feel better to me than fireisredsir

neither furtiveglance nor thegoldenparadox feel very towny to me and aristeia did at times as did fireisredsir’s beginning of day (which i know have to take into consideration that fireisredsir was reading before having an alignment and such but still)

I'm also curious about why you thought Ari felt towny

like i thought there was a chance she was trying to appeal to me to move the wagons or something at one point as i said at the time but i think the way she was entertaining my thoughts with regards to possible shirou/norwegianboyee worlds shortly after shirou reversed course was in line with what i would expect from town!aristeia and her emotions felt real at the end of day to me even if the self-vote was ??? (as all self-votes generally are)

[giuseppina]

Shiki have i never played against town!you before. Cus that might explain why you’re so shockingly town for the first time i seen it.

i was a scums in the hydra game and in the micro normal so yeah i think so

[giuseppina]

Shiki have i never played against town!you before. Cus that might explain why you’re so shockingly town for the first time i seen it.

i was a scums in the hydra game and in the micro normal so yeah i think so

also,

…

against?

[giuseppina]

?

you would have to be a scums to be playing ‘against’ town!me rather than with town!me here

[giuseppina]

?

you would have to be a scums to be playing ‘against’ town!me rather than with town!me here

Do you actually think semantics like that will lead you anywhere.

no of course not - that’s why my post was formatted the way it was but i do not think that carried over

[giuseppina]

?

you would have to be a scums to be playing ‘against’ town!me rather than with town!me here

Do you actually think semantics like that will lead you anywhere.

no of course not - that’s why my post was formatted the way it was but i do not think that carried over

like ‘oh you’re against me here are you eyebrowraise’

[giuseppina]

sorry

[giuseppina]

reading up then looking over aubrey games - will be aroundish for a while if anyone wants/needs anything else from me

[giuseppina]

wants/needs

[giuseppina]

can you give us an indication on where your head is at

it's like, if i assume shirou and norwegianboyee are town then my poe looks pretty similar to shirou's right now and toto's reaction to shirou's poe is kinda hmm to me unless the objection was simply toto's presence in it since the rest of the probably towns toto had listed are outside of that poe but i am still like 8 pages out,

unless you just mean like vote wise and then sure i will try to do so tonight yes

[giuseppina]

like shirou, norwegianboyee, furtiveglance, gimli, thegoldenparadox the slots i have felt the most iffy about

[giuseppina]

i guess the thing is i think you're universally town read but you're not really throwing your weight around and i think it would be helpful if you did

it's hard for me to do so when i am not confident in anything

actually it's hard for me to do so even when i am confident sometimes but here it is like,

sure i could lead on what's most likely to me, but i feel like mafia easily jumps on if i am wrong and then just says was sheeping and i have led a lot of disaster wagons when i have felt more or less like i currently do

[giuseppina]

which like, if i really 'throw my weight around' or whatever town probably sheeps too yes but just because i am universally town read doesn't mean i am right about who is not town

also on the universal townread thing somewhere i saw gimli talking about it with regards to norwegianboyee saying i am town and that being the easiest read to say and such and i feel like, a) at first gimli was not viewing me this way and b) i kinda think mafias are more likely to repeatedly question this view of me than repeatedly restate it based on past experience

[giuseppina]

Id maybe add klick

i guess maybe if everyone could briefly explain to me reads on klick and cat scratch fever that'd be helpful too as i do not really have much of a read at all on cat scratch fever and klick i am pretty conflicted on as klick has felt towny but also like potentially positioning self

[giuseppina]

i dunno

my problem is i don't want you to just fade into the background if you've got good insight

i feel pretty useless and not very insightful but i will do my best here

[giuseppina]

i guess i think everything klick is doing is townie

EXCEPT

if TGP is scum i think klick's defense of TGP would be pretty scummy

yeah that's part of the potentially positioning self

[giuseppina]

shirou and thegoldenparadox wagons still feel better to me than fireisredsir

neither furtiveglance nor thegoldenparadox feel very towny to me and aristeia did at times as did fireisredsir’s beginning of day (which i know have to take into consideration that fireisredsir was reading before having an alignment and such but still)

I'm also curious about why you thought Ari felt towny

like i thought there was a chance she was trying to appeal to me to move the wagons or something at one point as i said at the time but i think the way she was entertaining my thoughts with regards to possible shirou/norwegianboyee worlds shortly after shirou reversed course was in line with what i would expect from town!aristeia and her emotions felt real at the end of day to me even if the self-vote was ??? (as all self-votes generally are)

I can't speak to the personal experience
I believe that Ari's emotions were (at least mostly) real, but I also think they were NAI. I can see town and scum reasons for her getting emotional in the way that she did

i guess with regards to the personal experience stuff there's alot unsaid because alts and such and i have no idea what is public and what is not and i probably feel more strongly than i've said that fireisredsir is town here but yeah

[giuseppina]

I think furtive is unlikely to be scum with how he's been so far

That's the best take of these pages

Shirou and norwee are both less likeky to be town than furtive/Giuseppina/fire. Shirou went from annoying thread captain to "this game exists okay", norwee is doing the same thing. They're both still probably town but Im only townreading norwee on the back of shirou's meta, so it's the weakest part of the towncore. Hopefully j get to clear one of (std, toto, klick) and get a POE solve without this pair.

hmhmhm

it has often felt to me like you were trying to make a coalition simply to include yourself in it/choose who to pressure outside of it but maybe this is how you solve

do you generally approach the game in this way? (will probably click on random games of yours in a bit as well)

[giuseppina]

there's really something bugging me in this game oh my god

would i be throwing or hero'ing by saying it idk anymore

i am curious enough to ask i suppose,

so,

what's bugging you?

[giuseppina]

Hammer encourage, let's score like Sam Surridge

so if you're sure you are right about thegoldenparadox and such so who do you think most likely partners are right now and such

instead of just asking for hammer you could outline this, no? as if you are town and right about thegoldenparadox maybe you get nightkilled yes? pushing hard for elimination of a mafia and such? and in that situation maybe your thoughts on possible partners would be helpful, yes?

like earlier you were saying gimli also likely due to lucian posting, is this completely independent of thegoldenparadox read? or do you think they are likely partners?

[giuseppina]

Fire should go next, I said so already.

why is fireisredsir likely partnered with thegoldenparadox? sorry if you have said so already i do not recall seeing this but it's possible i missed

or do you think fireisredsir should go next regardless of thegoldenparadox flip?

[giuseppina]

you also said gimli was likely bussing thegoldenparadox, what happened to that?

[giuseppina]

there's really something bugging me in this game oh my god

would i be throwing or hero'ing by saying it idk anymore

i am curious enough to ask i suppose,

so,

what's bugging you?

[giuseppina]

Intent to

hammer

thegoldenparrot

in

12hours

aubrey felt a lot more Town with a capital T to me in the game with scum!you than aubrey felt in this game, (and also maybe your approach to aubrey's slot in that game made me worry about you a bit here than i was previously as i can see some parallels maybe but eh) haven't yet looked through the other aubrey games but will have done so in the next couple hours so

[giuseppina]

did you mean 12 minutes

TGP is gone, they dipped

*he dipped,

and i don't really feel like repeatedly saying, why are you pushing for this immediately, so maybe give it a rest, toto has already given intent

[giuseppina]

Honestly a few people I scum read are voting tgp which makes me question the wisdom of this but I don't see another way. At the same time lots of preflip associations being thrown around by a bunch of scumfucks I feel this flip will be informative regardless of color. Tgp is either town or being bussed and I want to find out which.

But pina if you want to murder gimly, aubrey, shurro or norwee more you have my vote. Those are not bad flips either.

If this is scum and people want to murder me for hessiting here tomorrow, well I guess my sacrifice is worth a scumflip. And good luck trying to flip me

it's hard to imagine thegoldenparadox not remaining an unresolved issue further into the game so there is that as well

i feel like there may be something weird between gimli and furtiveglance that goes all of the way back to aubrey and lucian very early in the game but it's so hard for me to tell if i am finding something because i am looking for it or because it is there

going to take a walk and then continue but if i feel strongly about a vote other than thegoldenparadox before i go to sleep i will make sure to vote there and say as much

[giuseppina]

I get that Aubrey was hard to read. I didn't townread them before I replaced in. I'm here now. I'm town.

your progression on gimli doesn't really make sense to me either as it feels like

like now you are saying you are certain thegoldenparadox is mafia,

so its very hard for me to ask about why you thought gimli was bussing thegoldenparadox rather than pushing thegoldenparadox as mafia earlier,

like if you could just walk me through your thoughts regarding maybe it'd be helpful to me i don't know

it just feels like, like you were saying you were skeptical of gimli but it didn't feel so much like you were

anyway going for a walk yeah should be back in an ~hour or so

[giuseppina]

But pina if you want to murder gimly, aubrey, shurro or norwee more you have my vote. Those are not bad flips either.

can i get your vote on fire?

hm,

how open to voting gimli are you?

[giuseppina]

I think furtive is unlikely to be scum with how he's been so far

That's the best take of these pages

Shirou and norwee are both less likeky to be town than furtive/Giuseppina/fire. Shirou went from annoying thread captain to "this game exists okay", norwee is doing the same thing. They're both still probably town but Im only townreading norwee on the back of shirou's meta, so it's the weakest part of the towncore. Hopefully j get to clear one of (std, toto, klick) and get a POE solve without this pair.

hmhmhm

it has often felt to me like you were trying to make a coalition simply to include yourself in it/choose who to pressure outside of it but maybe this is how you solve

do you generally approach the game in this way? (will probably click on random games of yours in a bit as well)

hm, it doesn’t really seem like gimli usually heavily relies on coalitioning and poe solving as town,

but, uh

this game feels very far away from the temple game gimli was mafia in but that’s probably not a good point of comparison due to the situation gimli replaced into there

and while the style of posting here is more similar to the clock game gimli was mafia in i feel like gimli didn’t really present any sort of overarching ‘town’ approach to that game mostly just giving so if mafia here i think it would be a notable evolution though that game was a while ago

[giuseppina]

*giving reads

[giuseppina]

like, i don't think i made it abundantly clear enough, but

if fire flips town my first post tomorrow will be a vote on myself.

(i'm confident enough, and not a causal decision theorist, and so you can take this as a Serious Promise).

it kinda feels like thegoldenparadox is leaning into others making a potential connection between him and fireisredsir

[giuseppina]

like, i don't think i made it abundantly clear enough, but

if fire flips town my first post tomorrow will be a vote on myself.

(i'm confident enough, and not a causal decision theorist, and so you can take this as a Serious Promise).

it kinda feels like thegoldenparadox is leaning into others making a potential connection between him and fireisredsir

like thegoldenparadox saw the cat scratch fever read that furtiveglance agreed with and is now playing even more into it

i guess that kinda assumes mafia intent but yeah

which probably means if thegoldenparadox is mafia then fireisredsir is less likely to be not more as that would be a kinda ??? of trying to distance when others are reaching the opposite conclusion from previous similar posts

[giuseppina]

could be attempting to get someone to read it that way by doubling down i guess but eh

it’s like, how often do scums actually say to themselves ‘i will do the thing others are saying i am doing more so that they’ll reach the opposite conclusion’? maybe sometimes? but once again, eh

[giuseppina]

if thegoldenparadox is town the whole ‘well if i am wrong we will eliminate me too’ thing doesn’t make any sense whatsoever as that just puts us to 4v3 which is obviously unideal but i cannot say that i’ve never seen town say (and even do) similar things, so

[giuseppina]

could be attempting to get someone to read it that way by doubling down i guess but eh

it’s like, how often do scums actually say to themselves ‘i will do the thing others are saying i am doing more so that they’ll reach the opposite conclusion’? maybe sometimes? but once again, eh

mmm

maybe actually

but i still think fireisredsir towny for other reasons and again thegoldenparadox would have to be mafia for any of this to be relevant

[giuseppina]

weird parallels in furtiveglance’s confidence in thegoldenparadox being a scums and thegoldenparadox’s confidence in fireisredsir being a scums

would largely like to outsource my read on furtiveglance i think

and i think i am okay with a thegoldenparadox elimination here and will put him to e-1 so toto can hammer in the morning (after klick catches up and such)

VOTE: thegoldenparadox

do not think things are going to get any clearer to me tonight and i probably shouldn’t continue to ask for time

i mostly feel the same way as earlier but if i am nightkilled everyone should probably assume it was because i am Town and ignore everything i have said

i guess i would have liked to see this:

and if I'm not NK'd tonight I'm reconsidering everything and meta diving every single person in this playerlist and casing every single one of you to spit the scum team just like mystery box of silver

to feel better about shirou and the una wagon there just felt so very likely to be mafia led to me but there were times in conversation where shirou felt just like a ghost of towns’ past so

[giuseppina]

[giuseppina]

from my overnight reading which im still doing i think flipping klick and aubrey slot wins the game but im willing to consider other options

kinda agree with this

save the dragons thought klick was likely mafia if thegoldenparadox was and klick’s defense of thegoldenparadox into end of day switch kinda hmm

could be frame kill but yeah

furtiveglance confidence still pretty !? to me and that pedit on petapan vote during twilight so odd

pedit: @toto 4) i guess my main worry there is that i could be alive because was townreading/defending fireisredsir and such but eh can think of plenty of other possible reasons

[giuseppina]

maybe furtiveglance pedit just a pure coincidence and furtiveglance just had that thought at that time independent of klick vote but yeah

[giuseppina]

doesn’t seem super super likely to me

no idea what like mafia intention or anything to that would be just such an odd pedit

[giuseppina]

i guess i think everything klick is doing is townie

EXCEPT

if TGP is scum i think klick's defense of TGP would be pretty scummy

[giuseppina]

i don't really want to speed lim anybody but i do think there's at least 1 scum in furtive/klick

my main worry here would probably be if it's klick+shirou or if one of my townreads is wrong

klick no longer being present in any of shirou's solves is a pretty big Hmm

[giuseppina]

Btw if it turns out that this is TvT and it's Fire/Toto or something, I blame Shirou bc I was about to lead on fire. I don't think they would derail the day to lead on obvtown as town though. Probably desperate scum with a teammate in danger

you complaining about others saying they are obviously town and saying it is awkward for them to do so and then referring to yourself that way here is, uh, certainly something

who would be shirou's teammate in danger tho? fireisredsir? this seems very very very very very unlikely to me due to interactions between shirou and aristeia

klick maybe? maybe i guess, tho shirou making cases on both teammates when scum!shirou would need one of them to endgame is maybe questionable

[giuseppina]

also i don't really get the yelling nature of your posts if you think shirou is doing so as mafia

[giuseppina]

Why are we ignoring the elephant in the room. Ari preventing TGP dying and TGP scummy hammer

???

?????????

??????????????????

if you believe that shirou is somewhat likely to be a scums, as you have implied very many times and sometimes outright stated,

how is this your interpretation of that series of events?

like shirou also prevented thegoldenparadox from dying day one - shirou pushed una through for no reason and shirou created the connection between aristeia and thegoldenparadox with 'do this or you will be eliminated by my decree!!!'

so it's pretty odd to me that you think that that somehow now means that aristeia is likely thegoldenparadox's partner given your view of shirou

[giuseppina]

thankyou for moderating

[giuseppina]

I

i quite enjoyed playing with you for what it's worth - i just disagreed with your approach at times and sometimes strongly enough for me to feel it was possibly coming from mafia (patience is town's friend) - and i just wanted to say that my replacement had nothing to do with you (or furtiveglance who also speculated about my replacement in a pretty ??? way - i had asked petapan to replace me before furtiveglance presented his scumread of me or whatever), it's just i had to stay up until 6ish in the morning my time to post after i finished with my other obligations the night before and i checked the game while i was eating on break and there were a lot of pages and it was looking like i would have to again and the rest of my week going forward looked very similar and it is unreasonable for me to continue to ask everyone to wait for me/the weekend

as i told petapan i probably should not have signed up as i knew it was likely i would become busy around this time i just really love playing

sorry again and hopefully i will see y'all in a few months