Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I would be okay with something like "Best Single Game Performance" to really highlight someone's roleclaim if they did well, or some kind of "this one awesome event/funny sequence of events" award to make up for it. I do think claiming is too narrow, and if we're going to have an award for claiming, we'd need to take a look at breaking down "good play" into several different minutiae and do a lot of things.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I like TSQ's system. I'm not sure how well it'd work, because why not just have the "Academy" choose the winner outright? They pick nominees/finalists, then who votes on it? It can't be the whole site, because not every user is going to read every game/player nominated and make an informed decision (that's why we have judges). It can't be the "Academy", because then it's basically just a small group deciding everything. I suppose it could be a completely separate group of judges who aren't involved in the balloting process, but that's a really inefficient way to do things.
I think it's a lot of work to ask mods to submit every game. I wouldn't mind doing something similar, though. For example, I recently suggested we break down "judging periods" into every three months instead of biannually. What if, when we did those three month blocks of judging, we got a list of all games run during those three months and PMed all the mods, asking them if they felt any of the players or moments in the game were award-worthy?
We can also make it a habit to post at endgame in completed games and remind people to nominate for the Scummies.
I do think it's a very small subset of people who actually do the nominating and it isn't perfectly representative of the site as a whole.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
In post 224, AGar wrote:Stream or it never happened.
GOOD THING I WON'T HAVE TO NOM ITgreen shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
In post 229, Oversoul wrote:If there is a need, perhaps the Most Cunning Manipulation award could be changed to something ... less specific sounding and Best Manipulation could become a spiritual successor for Best Role Claim, but only for Mafia.
In short
[mafia only] Most Cunning Manipulation > [mafia only] Paragon of Town Killers
[everyone] Best Role Claim > [mafia only] Best Manipulation (roleclaim, playing habits, etc)
Nogreen shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
So, let's go ahead and get this out there...
For next year, I nominate we changeSmooth OperatortoBest Moderator, an all-around body of work award for a moderator. I think the issue with Smooth Operator is that every year it just becomes "who fucked up the least", and I find myself going, "Well the dedication you had to this game was truly innovative, but you missed deadline by 10 minutes this one game day, so you're ineligible," and I just don't think that's a fair way to recognize great moderation. It doesn't just come from the flavor, or the setup design, or being timely with votecounts, or resolving disputes well, or creating a fun environment for the players, it's a big combination of everything and should be recognized as such.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Perhaps so. Every year I've been a part of judging Smooth Operator, it ends up with people going "this person posted X votecounts, this person posted X-2, so the first person wins" and I don't think that's really fair. Excellent Moderation isn't about posting votecounts on time, but that's usually what it comes down to. When the design team finally gets automated signups & automated votecounts done, Smooth Operator's current role is essentially going to be useless anyway because everything will pretty much be automated.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
In post 260, Mr. Flay wrote:In post 257, xRECKONERx wrote:Perhaps so. Every year I've been a part of judging Smooth Operator, it ends up with people going "this person posted X votecounts, this person posted X-2, so the first person wins" and I don't think that's really fair.
That's... a terrible way to judge that award. I'm not yelling at you, but damn. No wonder you don't like it.
Smooth Operator seems (to me) to be for the person who dealt with the unexpected/unplanned stuff well. We have separate awards for Innovative Roles or Enjoyable Setups, but this is the person who rolls with all the weird, mundane, personal crap that happens during games from other sources. They take it in stride, the game never really suffers any longer than it takes them to come visit the thread, and... yeah. Smooth.
Iunno, maybe I'm crazy.
The issue is that when you have a bunch of nominations and it's like, "well yeah I guess they all dealt with bullshit that came up and didn't make errors resolving night actions" then the only thing to set them apart BECOMES "okay so... who did the best with votecounts/timely day & night starts?" because the criteria we've set kind of necessitates that.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
It's a body of work award.
I also don't think, and this is just personal opinion, that an open moderator who does the same amount of technical work as a theme moderator should ever really win. There's going to be very little difference between a top mod running an open and a top mod running a theme, so the tiebreaker is going to be amount of effort put in, in which case, yes, the theme moderator probably put in more effort overall.
But again, it's body of work. If someone ONLY runs open games, then yes, they didn't do anything for setup design, so it's going to hinder them. I suppose opens can still have flavor though.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
In post 279, animorpherv1 wrote:This might be a bad idea, or I may have missed it, but where did 'Best Mish Mash User' go?
I have a few people I would like to nominate for that.
we run best mish mash game through scummies already. None of the SSC really feels qualified to talk about mish mash games or categories. If you guys want that, come up with a couple of awards and we can write them into the ceremony next year with a separate group to handle nominations and judginggreen shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I'm against this Best Overall category because I think it's too broad and thus too hard to judge. We have best mafia player, best town player, best third party, best moderator, best setup design, best MD contributor, best community contributor...this new award is basically all of those combined.
Speaking of which, I like Mr. Mafiascum for Community Contributor.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Hmm. Most open setups are designed or tweaked by an entire team of people, not to mention the fact there really aren't THAT many open setups being created each year (as opposed to the sheer number of closed setups that are run). I dunno, I guess we can toss the idea around and see where it gets us. Best Setup does tend to go to theme games, so we actually get normal games that are overlooked as well. I'm not sure how to deal with it.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Hey everyone, popping in from the SSC to say that we're starting to consider some changes/updates to the Scummies, and wanted to hear from the community about any awards they thought were obsolete, or any areas of the site they felt aren't accurately represented. I'll say that my proposals at the moment are as such:
#1) Merge Best Role + Best Mechanic into a new category, or maybe just call it "Best Mutation" and have it encompass any sort of minutiae of setup design that doesn't take into account the setup as a whole.
#2) Fix Best Setup. At the moment, only themed games are winning it, and I think it's because people look for "innovation" over solid setup design. Opens and Normals should get a shot at winning Best Setup, too, so maybe we change the criteria or how it's judged? Dunno, but I think it needs work.
#3) Make "Most Enjoyable Game" instead be "Game of the Year" and rather than give it an award, setup a Hall of Fame for all previous winners too. Instead of handing out Scummies for it, we just keep an archive of what games best categorized that year in games.
#4) Get rid of Name in Orange and instead make it the "Golden Fedora" lifetime achievement award that is only handed out by mith whenever he feels someone needs it.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
We should really not be giving awards to hydras. First off, it's not necessarily a practice that we want to indulge since there's already enough controversy about hydras in general. Second off, a hydra can already be nominated for any of the main awards, why create an award just for hydras? Third off, I think it would create an environment for people to try and hydra in games more just because there's an award for it -- and if it didn't do that, then there wouldn't nearly be enough nominations to justify the award. And finally, hydra play is a very subjective thing -- some hydras sign their posts, some don't, some have multiple people in them, some have split personalities, some speak with one voice, and I don't think trying to quantify those values as better or worse than the others is a good idea.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
"In practice" meaning from one year of the award being given out, right?
You're saying that every nomination is for someone who is already integrated, but I just don't see it.
Last year, the three "finalists" for the award were Tierce/Tammy/MattP. All of them were very new:
MattP joined at the end of Aug 2011, which would've given him about four months to be considered for the 2012 Scummies. His rise to being prolific happened in 2012, which is why he was considered for 2013. He was less than a year into his stay on the site at the time of his nomination.
Tierce joined even later than MattP (Nov 2011).
Tammy joined even later than Tierce (Jan 2012).
---
I guess I'm not seeing where the problem is, exactly. It's not like DGB got nominated for Rising Star -- last year, the finalists (and winner) were all among a pool of people who would've still been eligible for Best Newbie if it was still an award. As for this year's nominees... as I look through the list of nominees, everyone seems to be from late 2012 or 2013. And even then, I don't think join date is super relevant to this award. It is not just a "Best Newbie" replacement, it can also go to someone who hasn't had great play then suddenly has a breakout year.
If you could be more specific I feel as though I could address your concerns a bit better, but "Basically every nomination for rising star is of a player who has already become integrated thoroughly into the elite" just appears to be flat-outobjectively falseupon my inspection of the nominees list for this year + finalists list for last year.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I'd much rather see Best Role merge in with Best Mechanic/Mutation for real competition. This year, we even considered putting Mind Reader Mafia into Best Role because sometimes the line is very blurred. As zor pointed out, sometimes roles only work when you take into account the mechanic as well. Case in point--last year, with BBmolla's "Vengecop" thing, the cool part about it was the dead having a vote after the cop had a venge-investigate... but it wasn't "technically" part of the role, so it wasn't considered. Best New Role/Mechanic seems a little better just because there would be more competition. But I'm willing to shelf that idea if there's no support for it.
Re: Most Enjoyable Game... the issue is that having judges determine "Hey, how much did these players enjoy this game?" is always a shitty thing to ask them to do and it usually just ends up being a crapshoot. I feel as though some kind of system to determine finalists, such as the types of surveys that zoraster does after his games, then submitting a "top ten" to the community at large for voting, is the way to go. Sure, the 13-20 players in that game could vote for it so they would "win" (although we wouldn't actually give the award out to the players or anything, it'd just be for the game) but right now if a judge is in one of the games then we don't really have any difference in bias (it's just that we're more selective with who can have the bias). And instead of winning "Favorite Game", or any kind of actual Scummie being given out, that game would just be dubbed "Game of the Year 2014" or whatever and put into the history books. Buttons already hates having to give out the favorite game scummie anyway because it's a pain in the ass.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Faraday is very against the GOTY idea... we'll have to deliberate further after we get new SSC members, but my compromise was that we change "Most Enjoyable Game" to a more "Best All Around Game" and still have it judged. The popularity contest nature of making it a public vote (and making it susceptible to trolls) is a little hard to get around.
I think quadz was suggesting taking nominations for both then merging them during judging; OS was suggesting taking nominations for one category then splitting them out. To be completely honest, if we're merging a category, I'd rather come up with a new catchall and be done with it (similar to what we did with Best Newbie & Most Improved => Rising Star). My main drive in changes this year is to streamline the process so that we don't have any redundant categories and can have stronger, healthier competition. I'm very pleased with how Rising Star & Kodak Moment have played out... less thrilled about Community Contributor. You'll notice we didn't award it this year because there just wasn't enough need for it.
I think I have a suggestion, though... "Community Contributor" being only social related things might be too narrow. I would say that things like community threads (i.e., PARTY HATS! etc) should be considered for Community Contributor... but also, what if we took some of what Professor Mafia currently does and stuck it there, too? Specifically, the work on the wiki aspect of it. This would allow us to push Professor Mafia into what I actually think it should be... an award for the person who did the best job atteachingthe game of mafia or imparting knowledge to others. This would allow us to roll the boring and stale (seriously same 2-3 nominees for the past 3+ years) Best IC category into Professor Mafia and have Professor Mafia focus more on teaching, with Community Contributor being more on the grunt work/organizational stuff (I would imagine some stuff like data collection on games would fall into Contributor instead of Prof Mafia).green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
My proposed changes would see a breakdown something like this:
Player Awards
Paragon of Mafia Hunters:BoW award for best overall town player for the year
Don Corleone:BoW award for best overall scum player for the year
Rising Star:BoW award for the player who had the most prolific rise/breakout year (could be newbie, could be a veteran who went unnoticed until now)
BoW award for the player who has been the most positive contributor in replacing into gamesBest Replacement:
Most Enjoyable Player:BoW award for the funniest or just the most pleasant player to be aroundin game
Best Town:Single game award for best town group performance in one game
Best Scumteam:Single game award for best scum group performance in one game
Best Third Party:Single game award for best third party performance in one game
Kodak Moment:Most memorable moment from a game (fakeclaim, funny post, hilarious sequence of events, etc)
Moderator Awards
Smooth Operator:BoW award for best overall moderator for the year
Best Flavor:Single game thread award for best written flavor
Best Mutation:This could be a new role, new mechanic, or something in between that you felt really stood out this year and was a great addition to the game of mafia
Best Setup:Single game award for strong setup design; balance, ingenuity, role interaction, theme integration, etc will all be considered
Site Awards
Professor Mafia:BoW category awarded to the person who did the most to help teach/explain/theorycraft the game of mafia; this could be a single big MD post, or the sum of all of a person's MD posts for the year, or someone's work as an IC
Community Contributor:BoW category awarded to the person who made the site a better place to be through their efforts; this can be related to social events such as RadioScum or hosting a meet, but can also relate to actual work done on the forums to improve the overall community experience on the site, IE updating a big section of the wiki, writing an app to do votecounts, engaging in mass data collection efforts & presenting said data
Outstanding Mish Mash Game:Best game run for the year in the Mish Mash Subforum
Name in Orange:Only handed out certain years when the reds/admins see a particular user do a lot of unseen work backstage
Game of the Year:The replacement for Most Enjoyable Game; while enjoy-ability is still a factor, judges will also consider every aspect of the game. How well did the town play? How well did the scum play? Was the setup good? Was it balanced? How timely was the mod with VCs/deadlines? Was the flavor good? How about replacements? This award won't go to anyone in particular but will instead just title that game as "Game of the Year 20__".Last edited by xRECKONERx on Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I have Best Replacement highlighted because I'm not sure it's even really needed (but I'm fine with it staying).
I feel this set of awards and the descriptors included is broad enough to encompass every aspect of the site, but each category is narrow enough to not be redundant against another category. I also feel the number of Player Awards vs Mod Awards vs Site Awards is a little more appealing, as twice as many player awards over mod awards makes sense when there are where more players than mods. Professor Mafia / Community Contributor cover literally all out of game activity on the site; Mish Mash/NiO aren't even the purview of the SSC; and GotY fixes some of the big problems with Most Enjoyable Game.
Plus, this will give the judges sixteen categories to judge which is manageable. If we go with mine/Faraday's idea of having rolling judging all year for non-BoW categories, then only eight categories will need to be judged at the end of the year which will make the judging process much easier.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
dear god noIn post 482, zoraster wrote:1. Best Setup and/or Mutation - Theme Category
2. Best Setup - Non-Theme Category
Like, Best Setup is Best Setup. This year's best setup went to a mini theme but it was a very normal mini theme. Last year it went to a large theme that was crazy. You're basically trying to shoehorn nominations for normal games because BUT NORMAL SETUPS ARE PEOPLE TOO when it's totally up to the people who nominate these games. If there's a standout normal game or open setup that comes down the pipes, then it can be submitted. It's not like we disallow it right now.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I agree with this, though.In post 492, zoraster wrote:I'll be honest: I don't think a Mini-Normal game should win a scummy for best setup.
Normal games are pretty identical to each other at a glance, and I guarantee if you look at one hard enough you can find another one that has already been run that's exactly the same. This is because normal games only have so much freedom in their design process due to the whitelist/blacklist.
I do, however, want to see more Open Games get nominated for best setup, as I think there are some cool new ideas for open setups that could easily win if they were nominated.
Basically, I expect Best Setup to go to a non-normal game (Open/Theme/Micro)... "Best Mutation", in my new ideal world, would be given to a new role -or- a new mechanic that added a lot to the game. It has nothing to do with Best Setup, actually.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Hey guys -- the call for SSC members is up! Think about applying if you want to help out!green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Hey guys, popping back in to bump this thread.
If you guys have any suggestions/ideas, let us know.
I updated the 2013 Scummies page today. We're considering a wiki/records overhaul in the near future, so can you guys point out some things you like/don't like about the Scummies wiki pages, and what kind of stuff you'd like to see implemented?green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
In post 398, Titus wrote:New Category Suggestions
Best Town Performance in a Loss
Best Scum Performance in a Loss
Nom: SKOT, Best Performance in Town Loss- Game Ikarga Mafia (Large Theme)
We've had the "Best Losing Cause" idea thrown around several times as a catchall category, but none of our current categories require a win to be considered, so it seems rather pointless.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
My issue with Best Town/Scum Performance in a Loss is that it feels way too similar to Best Town Performance. We already have the category that can allow for a losing team to win the Scummie, so it seems weird to create a special category just for losing performances. Should we then change the current ones to Best Winning Performance as Town/Scum? Then it just seems like an "A FOR EFFORT" type award, or like little league where everyone walks home with a trophy.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I dislike individual player awards for single games just as a principle. It is very hard to determine which single player had the biggest effect out of a whole team in a single game, since games are RARELY "one guy carries the whole team". That would just invite a ton of single-player nominations from single games, and judging that is pretty difficult. Judging is already an issue for these Scummies and all of our recent changes are towards streamlining the judging process or making categories easier to judge.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
I don't feel that having one good game is worthy of an award, though. There's a reason why everysingleperson award we have is Body of Work. Everyone has a fluke, or a good game. There's always at least one person who looks good at the end of the game, because someone had to be right or less wrong than everyone else. I'd much rather see mods implement their own "end of game vote" for who the playerlist thought was the MVP or something, because that's pretty cool and rewarding to be recognized like that. But awarding ONE scummy out of the 100+ games that are run on the site each where, where the vast majority of those games are going to have at least one person who stood out as a great performance... sometimes multiple people... that's just silly.
I also, again, don't think a losing cause scummy is necessary because a win isn't required to be considered for an award. I'd be happy to edit the language to point out that much, but I don't particularly see the value in creating an award just for losers. That would make the other awards just for winners by default. Then we start moving across the board, and well, third parties should also be considered if they lose, right? So why not break that one out a little more? And what about scumteamsinstead of single player? We should probably create a win/lose dichotomy in the awards for whole teams as well.
But, I don't think mastin was particularly arguing for a 'losing cause' scummy so much as a 'single player, single game' scummy. It is my personal opinion that such an award is too broad and would encourage too many nominations, bogging down both the SSC's process and the judging process. I mean, just going through my recent games:
999 Mafia: Everyone universally agreed that Gamma carried the town that game, he was the MVP.
Air Combat Mafia: GreyICE saved the town from losing almost by himself, universal agreement.
MS Fantasy Camp 2: UT & Cerulean balled out of control and rolled the town by being universally townread at endgame.
Those are just the most recent three. And I feel like, if I went and read every recently completed game with a good playerbase, there'd be 1-3 people in each of those games who obviously stood out among the town. If, as you said above, having an outstanding game isn't necessarily indicative of skill, then I don't think it's deserving of a Scummie. The game-related Scummies are meant to reward skilled players, not mediocre players who just got lucky one time.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
In post 481, wgeurts wrote:In post 479, xRECKONERx wrote:Eh, my personal feeling is that it should be a solo person award (as that's how it was designed).
It would be cool as a group though, I imagine the idea behind the scummie is just helping make the community better. In this case the wiki is not done by one person so it seems wrong to make it "who can do the best edit", there have been a few people working hard changing a lot so it feels wrong to compare them as they all help in different aspects. Also if a group of people works on something then comes the question "who gets the credit?".
Previously, wiki edits and the like were covered under "Professor Mafia". That portion of the award was rolled into Community Contributor this year, which makes this a gray area.
I've always envisioned the award as a singular award. Things like "Name Should Be In Orange" allow for group wins, but I think this is recognizing a single person. It's also a Body of Work award -- so it's not just this one thing that'll be considered in the judging process, it's EVERYTHING from the whole of 2014. It's very hard to consider a group's Body of Work.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
Because it's a body of work award. And, for example, in that group, you did setup stuff as well... but then, the judges can't really consider that, because it's a group nomination. So then they'd have to consider you separately anyway. Or, diginova has done a ton of work on the graphics/art/layout for the cards that are being made... but, the others of you didn't, so that'd have to be separated as well.
A group of people can work together, sure. But they would all need to be considered individually, with the group contributions being factored into other individual contributions. It's like our Paragon of Mafia Hunters or Don Corleone award... a hydra can technically be nominated, but then ONLY games played in the hydra will be considered. Conversely, if a solo person is nominated, and they had a few games they played as a hydra, their solo games PLUS the games in the hydra would be considered.
Wejustrolled the wiki portion of Professor Mafia into Community Contributor and changed the Professor Mafia scope. Contributing to the wiki is contributing to the site, there's no need for a separate award.green shirt thursdays-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
-
-
xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009