Experienced Players in Newbie Games - Responsibility

[Mr. Flay]

Back in November when I was directed to this site I had only ever played one game of Mafia. Having the priviledge of playing and learning from some of the best players on this site (Mr. Flay, MeMe, StD, mathcam, NanookTheWolf, just to name a few) in the "Road to Rome" games helped tremendously to educate me. Because I was well taught I felt comfortable enough to start games in the other forums.

Thanks, Maximumumum. I'm certainly a prolific poster, while I'm not sure I'm all that good of a player (I've got more experience as scum than town, which is sort of weird to begin with), but I do take the Road to Rome games seriously as a training tool for future players. I think I had the pleasure of playing with mathcam AND Seol in Newbie...73? which was just nerve-wracking because they're both so good (no slight intended to the other players in that game)...but even my fellow scum in that game learned a lot, even though we lost. I generally play in a newbie game when I have time, and if I wasn't modding two and playing in Good Omens right now, I'd be joining another...they're fun, fast paced, and the new Variant 93 has really sleared a lot of the staleness out of them, I think.

I've yet to act as a trainer for mods in newbie games because I just think it's a bad idea to have inexperienced mods running newbies -- and it doesn't provide the experience necessary to write and run more complicated games anyway, so why are we doing it?

Can I second this seconding of mathcam? I don't get the impression we're

that

* short of mods in Road to Rome that we need to be training people there - as 'cam said, they should be flawless from a game mechanics perspective...that gives the players room to grow comfortable with the strategy and psychology of the game without worrying that someone's going to blindside them. Every time I see someone sign up to moderate for the first time in Road to Rome, with someone else seconding them, I cringe...not because of who they are, but because I worry about the 4 new players who are going to have to learn along with that person.

Sure, we all have to learn something, sometime; both Dodecamafia and Werewolf have taught me balance and feel issues that make me a better mod. But do it in a place that can be just a

bit

more forgiving, not with our newest recruits.

*clink*clink*

P.S. If you

are

getting short on mods, feel free to call me in, Norinel. I can run mechanics pretty well by this point, I hope, even though my second game isn't finished. Sorry for hijacking!

[Mr. Flay]

I'd prefer if you didn't talk about the game (which is still currently running) until the game is over. This is the second time I've noticed a post of yours referencing my game, and I'd appreciate it if you would wait til the game is over and then post any thoughts you may have about it.

I don't see where this follows from a post pointing out that someone is not participating in one of their games. Aside from implying that she's dead, she didn't reveal any game information about herself or LML, and making the point that the person who started this thread is somewhat absent is valid, IMO...

[Mr. Flay]

Here's a thought for experienced players. Don't exclude newbies from your discussions if at all possible. It makes them feel like they're being pushed to the side and that their thoughts are irrelevant because they're a newbie. Not a good feeling.

Excellent point. If anything, I've talked to the newbies about

not

making their voices known. I believe my quote (and I *was* pro-town, and the Cop to boot) was something along the lines of "

if you think I'm dominating the discussion, it's only because no one else is saying anything right now!

".

But then, I've got a fairly confrontational style of play...

[Mr. Flay]

Self-voting thread in Mafia Discussion

Thought it was a bad idea then, still do (I've seen a rash of players do it recently, enough to wonder if it's becoming an etiquette issue).

[Mr. Flay]

10. Don't lurk-it makes you look suspicious.
9. Be patient-rushing will lead to mistakes.
8. Cops should try to investigate people who seem scummy-they're more likely to be scum.
7. Sometimes, you just need to stop talking and let yourself be lynched.
6. Random votes might not be random-for some reason scum will random vote each other.
5. Don't lurk-you'll miss important details.
4. If you are scum, be willing to sacrifice your partner for the win. He or she will be willing to sacrifice you.
3. Protect power roles-if you are a townie, you are not a bad day one lynch.
2. No kill can be a very powerful technique for scum sometimes.
1. Don't lurk-people don't like it!

I’ll agree with most of these. However, I’ll dispute (8): Players who seem scummy, while more likely to be scum, are if scum also more likely to get themselves lynched without the cop’s help. The reasons to investigate such a player would be to come forward to prove him innocent if necessary and as they’re less likely to be nightkilled by the mafia, so an investigation won’t be wasted.

But investigating those who seem innocent only has an advantage if you're planning on revealing your results, and dying early. Otherwise, you gain more by having a confirmed kill on the scummiest player, than having another innocent confirmed (this also presumes that one of the best mafia plays is to kill the most innocent-seeming player, and leave the scummy townies alone for daykills, something the cop might be able to prevent).

I’ll quibble with (3) for the same reason (7) was objected to. Regardless of the player’s alignment, it is bad for them to be dead and have their side with one less member. (As applied to the mafia team proven empirically...) Any townsperson death Day 1 is a bad lynch, and thus should not be encouraged. (With this fact is tautological for all players, it shouldn’t be used to argue for or against a lynch.)

Perhaps 3 should read:

"you are not THE WORST lynch that could happen."

[Mr. Flay]

I was about to tell you about some awesome wiki articles that delve into concepts rather than just telling you the rules, but it looks like some of them have disappeared. I shall have to investigate further. Meanwhile, it is editable. The reason these pages don't exist is because no one has written them.

In fairness, the Wiki was backed up at an earlier date than the forums for the move, and hasn't been fully restored yet, I don't think. That may be why you're finding things "disappear' today, PB.

But by all means, once it's back up, help fill in any blanks we've still got...

[Mr. Flay]

We need some experienced players.

I think the Queue is currently at 6 newbies, 2 experienced. 3 or 4 IC players would get things all caught up, and this seemed the best place to start spreading the word...