Double-Headed & Speedy Deep South Massive public review

[Adel]

Edit: the official sign-up (hydra confirmation) thread is now open. Please read the first post before confirming.

I am getting ready to run my next game

Double-Headed & Speedy Deep South Massive

. I will appreciate any comments or thoughts the rest of you have on my proposed role PMs and rule-set.

I plan for it to start on April 27th.

I will run two 14-player games,

DHSDSM

α

and

DHSDSM

β

. Both games will include the same players.
All players will be Hydras (single account played by two and only two players) and both members of each hydra will public information.

Hydras made up of two productive players from one of my previous games or WIHII, or made up of a notable player (in my subjective opinion) + newbie (less than 1500 game posts) will enjoy front of the line privileges. Those that meet that critera will be in bold as soon as I confirm such. I expect that hydras made up of players from different time-zones will enjoy a tactical advantage in both games.

Pre-/ins:

• 1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (DGB+Plum)
  
  
  2. Apples and Banana (SensFan+xofelf)
  
  
  3. Zmd (ZazieR+Kmd4390)
  
  
  4. Trotsky (Korts+roflcopter)
  
  5. Wizardkat1516 (Wizardcat+kloud1516)
  6. Death the Hogfather (Kairyuu+Seraphim)
  
  7. Incamnito (Incognito+camn)
  
  
  8. Yosariwen (Yosarian2+Nuwen)
  
  10. Ortohoops (ortolan+Hoopla)
  11. sex w/ shafteds wife club (elvis_knits+shaft.ed)
  12. PoketheAlpaca (PokerFace+populartajo)
  
  13. Pesco-Light (forbiddanlight+Pesco)
  
  
  14. Raging Wishbone (Raging Rabbit+WaltWishbone)
  
  
  15. J-Scope (Jahudo+KaleiÐoscøpe)
  
  16. Frog Dodging (Shanba+JDodge)
  (There are only 14 player slots, I am overbooking. The actual player list will be finalized in the official sign-up thread.)

All slots for pre-/in are now filled.

There will be one 3-player mafia group and either 1 Compulsive Vig or 1 SK in each game.

Possible Roles for

DHSDSM

α

and

DHSDSM

β

All roles that appear in the game are from this list. Not every role in this list is used in the game.

Compulsive Vig

You are a Vigilante. You are frustrated with the ineffective procedures of the town, really frustrated. Once every action phase you may PM me the name of one player, and you will take out your frustrations by killing that player. If you do not send me the name of a player by an action phase, you will immediately kill a random player (you may be that random player) instead, and that random kill will be identified as a random kill in the victim's death scene. Other roles might interfere with your killing ability; you will not be notified if this happens. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text.

You win if only town-aligned players are alive at the end of the game.

Cop

You are a Cop. By breaking police procedures and violating a person’s right to privacy, you can tell the difference between scum and town. Once every action phase you may PM me the name of one player and I will tell you (via PM and within 18 hours) if that player is innocent or guilty of being scum. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. I will deliver your investigation results by sending you a PM containing the quoted text of your action PM along with either "innocent" or "guilty" or (if your action is blocked) "no result".

You win if only town-aligned players are alive at the end of the game.

Doctor

You are a Doctor, dedicated to saving lives. Once every action phase you can PM me the name of one player, and that player will be protected from

one

kill for the next action phase. You can PM your first target before the game begins. You can not protect yourself. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. You will not be informed if your action is blocked.

You win if only town-aligned players are alive at the end of the game.

Mafia Doctor

You are a Doctor, dedicated to saving lives. Once every action phase you can PM me the name of one player, and that player will be protected from

one

kill for the next action phase. You can PM your first target before the game begins. You can not protect yourself. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. You will not be informed if your action is blocked.

You are also a member of the _____ Mafia with _____. Due to the Oath of Hippocrates, you are not allowed to perform your Mafia’s kill.

While you are alive, you can talk with the other living members of your mafia via the quicktopic thread found at________.

You win if only members of your mafia are alive at the end of the game.

Mafia Godfather

You are the mighty Godfather of the _____ Mafia. ________ are also members of your mafia. Because you are so crafty, you are immune to Cop investigations.

While you are alive, you can talk with the other living members of your mafia via the quicktopic thread found at________.

Once every action phase a single member of your mafia can PM me the name of a player to kill, and which member of your mafia is committing your kill. If I receive more than one PM for the kill during an action phase from your mafia, only the first one sent will count. Other roles might interfere with your killing ability; you will not be notified if this happens.

You win if only members of your mafia are alive at the end of the game.

Mafia Goon

You are a Goon in the _____ Mafia. ________ are also members of your mafia.

While you are alive, you can talk with the other living members of your mafia via the quicktopic thread found at________.

Once every action phase a single member of your mafia can PM me the name of a player to kill, and which member of your mafia is committing your kill. If I receive more than one PM for the kill during an action phase from your mafia, only the first one sent will count. Other roles might interfere with your killing ability; you will not be notified if this happens.

You win if only members of your mafia are alive at the end of the game.

Mafia Roleblocker

You are a Roleblocker in the _____ Mafia. ________ are also members of your mafia.

While you are alive, you can talk with the other living members of your mafia via the quicktopic thread found at________.

Once every action phase a single member of your mafia can PM me the name of a player to kill, and which member of your mafia is committing your kill. If I receive more than one PM for the kill during an action phase from your mafia, only the first one sent will count. Other roles might interfere with your killing ability; you will not be notified if this happens.

As an additional ability, once every action phase you may PM me the name of a player. That player’s action will not occur during the next action phase. If I do not receive a PM before end of an action phase you will not block any player. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. You will not be informed if your action is blocked.

You may perform both your mafia's kill as well as roleblock in the same action phase.

You win if only members of your mafia are alive at the end of the game.

Roleblocker

You are a Roleblocker.

Once every action phase you may PM me the name of a player. That player’s action will not occur during the next action phase. If I do not receive a PM before end of a day you will not block any player. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. You will not be informed if your action is blocked.

You win if only town-aligned players are alive at the end of the game.

Serial Killer

You are an evil and calculating Serial Killer. Because you are so crafty, you are immune to kills other than your own.

Once every action phase you may PM me the name of one player, and you will take out your frustrations by killing that player. If you do not send me the name of a player by the end of an action phase, you will kill a random player (you may be that random player) instead, and that random kill will be identified as a random kill in the victim's death scene. Other roles might interfere with your killing ability; you will not be notified if this happens. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text.


You win if you are the only player left alive at the end of the game.

Townie

You are a Townie. You have no abilities other than your vote.

You win if only town-aligned players are alive at the end of the game.

Tracker

You are a Tracker. Once every action phase you may PM me the name of one other player. If that player uses an ability on any other players during the next action phase, I will tell you (via PM, and between 6 and 30 hours after I receive their PM) the names of those players targeted. If your action is blocked you will not be informed. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. I will deliver your investigation results by sending you a PM containing the quoted text of your action PM along with either "none" or the names of the players that your target targeted. You can PM me your first target before the game begins.


You win if only town-aligned players are alive at the end of the game.

Rules:

1.

You may

not

PM or IM or otherwise contact any player at anytime about this game, regardless of if you are living or dead. If your role makes an exception to this rule for you, strictly follow the new rule in your role PM. Exception: all forms of intra-hydra communication are allowed.

2.

Once you are dead you can no longer post in-thread.

Not even a "bah." post.

Seriously.

3.

Each player can vote for exactly one other player at a time during the day. Make your choice in bold letters like

Vote: YYYYYY

.

4.

To change your vote, post

Unvote

in bold letters, or make a post voting for someone else in accordance with

3.

.

5.

Cast votes and unvotes that do not follow the formatting guideline described in (3.) and (4.) will

not

be counted.

6.

A lynch will occur when more than 50% of the players have their votes placed upon the same player, or have their votes placed upon

Nolynch

. After the 50%+1 threshold is reached, the lynch will occur regardless of any subsequent posting. Kills will be posted in thread between 6 and 30 hours after I receive them by PM. I will attempt to randomize the delay as much as possible to prevent date/time type confirmation of kill source.

7.

Day and Twilight:

• "Day" is defined as the period between the moderator's "Start of Day __" post, and when either a vote is cast that places a player past the 50%+1 threshold necessary for a lynch. Role actions can only be submitted during periods of Day.
  "Twilight" is defined as the period between the time of the final valid vote necessary for a lynch or nolynch was cast and the following "Start of Day ___" post, or the "Twilight Expiration Trigger". Role actions are not valid if they are submitted during periods of twilight.
  Twilight Expiration Trigger: Twilight (the period following the last vote needed to lynch,) will last for a set period. In alpha that period will be 6 to 18 hours. In beta that period will be = to 2 * the number of living players in posts. No votes will be accepted during twilight, and action submissions for the following period of day
  will not
  be accepted during Twilight. Flavor Excuse: lynchings are messy. The town has to clean up the gallows, burn the body, ect.. and it takes some time to build up the level of aggression necessary to kill another of your neighbors who might very well be innocent.

8.

Action phases:

• DHSDSM

  α
  : reset every 84 hours.
  • a note on "Time": all times will be in UTC, and each action phase will have a countdown timer, similar to this countdown timer to the start of the games.
  DHSDSM

  β
  : reset on pages: 13, 24, 32, 37, 40, 43, and every third page after that (46, 49, 52...).

9.

This game will not have deadlines. Ever.

10.

When 72 hours have passed without an individual player posting, I will prod that player

only if specifically requested to do so in-thread

by any other player.

11.

If a prodded player does not open the prodding PM within 72 hours he will be replaced. Until a replacement is found the player facing replacement can still vote and post. If I have to prod a player a third time during the game, I will replace him. If you expect to be unable to post in the game for 48+ hours, send me a PM. I do not check the vacation/leave thread.

12.

Hydras (two players sharing the same alt account) are encouraged as a way to reduce the chances of replacement. All hydras will be public (all players will know who makes up each hydra) and hydras are static. You can't replace half of your hydra. I will not deal with hydra drama. If you PM me about drama within your hydra (not getting along, she changed the password, whatever), I'll just replace that hydra. Claiming to be experiencing hydra drama within the game thread is allowed...

but if you use your non-hydra account to do so you will be replaced

. Replacing out = loss. Replacing out for tactical reasons = ban from my future games.

13.

Special rule for

DHSDSM

β

: Spam is not allowed.

• The second time you post more than three times in a row you will be modkilled. You will not be warned. Six posts in a row = modkill. Hydras need to be extra careful of this rule. Posts by alt account will count towards the mod-kill.
  Making more than 15 posts within an hour will also result in a modkill

14.

If you have the ability to edit posts, don't do it in this thread.

15.

If you have any questions please ask me via PM or in-thread as they occur to you. I will be as fair and helpful as I can.

16.

Every moderator will make mistakes, and I am no exception. Please be patient, understanding, and forgiving towards me.

17.

I support free speech. Quote anything you like

(except for ongoing games!)

whenever you like. All forms of cryptography that do not

require

software (or more than 1 hour for me to work with just pen and paper) for encryption or decryption are acceptable as well. Do not PM or otherwise contact players outside the thread with game related information unless you are explicitly permitted.

18.

Talking about ongoing games is against Mafiascum.net rules. See mith's post at http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6470 for the complete set of forum rules.

• Exceptions: you may
  • *cite when (date, time) a player has posted elsewhere on this site
    *cite information posted by a moderator in another game (including alignment if it is revealed by the mod)
  You shall not otherwise reference another game.
  If you write a post that has a chance of breaking this site-wide rule, PM it to me before you post it. I will tell you if it would get you modkilled or not.

19.

The game ends when all living players are members of the same faction. If the game never ends then there will never be a "winner".

20.

Breaking a rule = death for a given value of death. I determine that value. A modkill will not end the day.

[Adel]

two differences: I am accepting pre-/ins and this game has hydras!

[Adel]

We are all Adel's guinea pigs

I like how you are going to run a nice experiment to compare real life time deadlines with in game post deadlines. Good controls too!

Thanks! I've been thinking a lot about several of these elements. WIHII gave me a series of epiphanies... so here is a big kiss for Mr. Flay:

[Adel]

Adel, your Role PM's are a bit confusing regarding the time limit of dynamic roles (roleblocker, Doctor, etc).

When a doc/etc sends you a PM, when does his action starts to take place?
- At the timestamp of the doctor action PM?
- At the time stamp of your reply PM?
- At the start of the next "action" period to be defined by the mod?

EDIT: reading carefully, it seems that it is the third option, but this is not clear from a first reading of the role PM.

the third, and all of the action periods are determined in advance. In the case fo the first game, in 84 hour blocks (explicitly listed using UTC times), and in the case of the second, in 150 game-post blocks.

Also, the Vig's random kill takes place only at the time of the lynch, as opposed to his normal kill that takes place immediately?

immediately. editing now to clear that up.

[Adel]

I like how you are going to run a nice experiment to compare real life time deadlines with in game post deadlines.

note that there aren't any deadlines for lynches. Every so often (84 hours, or 150-game posts) people with abilities get their ability reset.

Players are free to lynch as frequently or infrequently as they like.

[Adel]

The sk is immune to kills
he will kill at random if one is not chosen
the random target can be himself
so can the sk kill himself randomly or will it auto fail due to the imunity?

he will die.

Also, only two players per hydra. No replacing 1/2 of your hydra. Make you you pick someone you can get along with.

[Adel]

@shaft.ed, that is a danger I am concerned about. Ideally I would identify the problem and replace the hydra out before the

vengeance and retribution

phase of their relationship.

I'm curious as to why two simultaneous games? Apart from just sounding awesome, that is.

for an apples to apples comparison of the two speed mechanics.

[Adel]

thanks shaft.ed, I don't need it. Get your's while you can.

[Adel]

Oh, and /prein as Xtoxm and zwet.

I'll need to think about this. Xtoxm is on my whitelist, so there is no concern there, but I am a little concearned about zwet's ability to commit to thi game and play it seriously, without impacting his other 12 games. I'm also worried that if I say something like "zwet can play if he is down to 7 game by April 27th" then I might be negatively impacting several other games.

These game are experimental, and are likely to have a huge time requirement for several weeks, possibly upwards of 7 hours a week for each game.

.. but zwet did play in WIHII, and Flay is not full of zwet hate, so I'm unsure.

[Adel]

1.

You may

not

PM or IM or otherwise contact any player at anytime about this game, regardless of if you are living or dead. If your role makes an exception to this rule for you, strictly follow the new rule in your role PM. Exception: all forms of intra-hydra communication are allowed.

yep all forms, including but not limited to: email, face to face, AIM, meat puppet theater, ESP, smoke signals, PMs, QT threads, and telephone calls.

[Adel]

Does this work for an elvis/shaft hybrid?

^win^

Adel, I can play this game fine, I think. I was in 18 or so games during WIHII, and didn't feel too burned.

I'm sure

you

felt fine-- it is the feelings of the other players in my games, and the players in your other (12? 14?) games, that make me hesitate.
I do not want them to feel burned.

[Adel]

final ruling: zwetschenwasser & his alts and hydras containing the same are not allowed in these games. Recent shenanigans do not bode well, and I don't want to deal with the distraction of likely future drama.

Sorry Zwet, you are just too high-risk for me. Some other mod can take a chance on you.

[Adel]

hmmm... I wasn't expecting pre-ins to fill all slots in less than 36 hours. I probably should've taken pre-ins by PM. I'm going to overbook by two slots, and wait until I get an official sign-up thread to get confirmations and finalize the player list.

[Adel]

I dislike the SK possibly killing itself, the SK gets some form of perverse pleasure from the murders, not from suicide. Do you want me to back-up this one?

Thank you for the feedback!
The SK is supposed to kill during each action period. If the player breaks flavor by not submitting a kill, that player is penalized by the kill being randomly selected with suicide being a possibility. It is a game mechanic, not a flavor feature.

I've got Claus for back-up. Do you want to be the second line of relief? Would you like to review it?

[Adel]

I am fine with PoketheAlpaca. Make the account and pm me the password. People will likly call us alpaca in thread which should be cool. Adel may have to prepare for a bigger setup or we'll have to signup for the game fast enough to get in when the thread opens.

I've got you on the list already. See OP.

I dislike the SK possibly killing itself, the SK gets some form of perverse pleasure from the murders, not from suicide. Do you want me to back-up this one?

Thank you for the feedback!
The SK is supposed to kill during each action period. If the player breaks flavor by not submitting a kill, that player is penalized by the kill being randomly selected with suicide being a possibility. It is a game mechanic, not a flavor feature.

I've got Claus for back-up. Do you want to be the second line of relief? Would you like to review it?

I'm willing to do both.

I think the SK should have some form of in game restriction, rather than the threat of suicide, if you make is so that the SK has a restriction which makes it harder for him to win, then it'll be motivation to send in the kill.

As after all the SK has quite a motivation to leave it till it is random, as then he cannot be blamed for the murder. If you give them substantial motivation to murder, and for him to pick who, you are onto a winner.

random kill = substantial threat of suicide = instant loss, which seems like plenty of motivation to me. Is your objection based on what you think SK flavor should be, or do you think the threat of suicide is insufficient motivation to prevent the SK from leaving the kills to random chance? Note that the Vig has the same random kill penalty for not submitting a kill on time -- are you ok with that?

[Adel]

Max, what alternative do you have in mind?

I can totally rationalize why the SK would "kill" himself. It could be an accident (poison, explosives, falling down the sairs with with a sharp knife in his hand, car accident, running with scissors) ... he could wait too long and feel like he is about to get caught... plus I like the mechanic for my own personal reasons. The important part is that IF there is a random kill, it will be public knowledge to all players that the kill was randomly chosen. If a player decides that random kill selection is optimal, I won't have a problem with that.

In terms of abstract game design, is there a problem with the mechanic?

[Adel]

Serial Killer

You are an evil and calculating Serial Killer. Because you are so crafty, you are immune to kills

other than your own

.

is this the simple fix we are looking for?

[Adel]

Serial Killer

You are an evil and calculating Serial Killer. Because you are so crafty, you are immune to kills

other than your own

.

is this the simple fix we are looking for?

If that's the way you want it to work, that's the way you should word it. I'm not sure I see the point of having the SK be able to suicide. IMHO just missing out on a NK is punishment enough.

deleted my longish response. Insert mod WIFOM here.

editing now.

I really appreciate the feedback.

[Adel]

GC, symmetry between the Compulsive Vig and the Sk is the primary reason for the random clause. Between all of the 84 hours blocks being explicitly listed in the first post in UTC (along with a link explaining the world's time zones and what UTC is, and link to a countdown timer for each action block), the hydra, and everyone being able predict what the next multiple of 150 is, there is no excuse for accidentally missing or misjudging an action block. If they do, then they are being penalized for poor play.

The SK

MUST

kill. The Compulsive Vig

MUST

kill.

I'm rather surprised that this is what is drawing attention. I expected an objection along the lines of "what if the town tries to force the Vig/SK to out herself day 1" which I was prepared to refuse to answer, or "what if the town tries to speed lynch as quickly as possible before the scum get another kill?" which I am honestly not sure about.

I'm not seeing why you guys don't like the random kill/possible suicide element. What are you saying that I am not hearing? What is wrong with the random kill/suicide?

[Adel]

I expect that hydras made up of players from different time-zones will enjoy a tactical advantage in both games.

. I think the punishment does not fit the crime here, and it has the potential to totally jack somebody up if, say, Time-Warner or British Telecom have an outage or the guy down the street hits the power box with a backhoe five hours before the choice period ends. It's overkill; maybe force them to miss their next (chosen) kill if they ever miss a choice action? That's doubling the penalty without an autolose, and can be explained thematically for similar reasons (mental breakdown, etc).

Thanks for offering an alternative. I am considering it. I think the threat of both Time-Warner & British Telecom taking a hit at the same time is slim though, and I don't think a hydrated Compulsive Vig or SK is going to miss a kill. Should I allow the vig and sk to pre-submitt their kills ( "as soon as the next block begins, I will kill ____" ) as an alternative solution?

Not to mention the mental affect such a reprocussion will have: "I really want to wait until closer to the deadline, but I'm not sure if I will be around so I'm just going to make the kill now." It has a major affect on how the individual(s) play the game (more conservative), as the threat of a random suicide is nothing compared to instant loss.

{snip}

I don't think anyone takes issue with the random kill part. It's just the potential for suicide that has me scratching my head.

perhaps I am just randomly hard-core like that. I like that mechanic, and the pressure it adds to that player.

Ugh, good point. WIH II frequently got 150 posts in 8-16 hours, even when the player base was cut down. I suspect with full hydras and the intentional encouragement of activity, this game could be similarly charged.

I think the threat of Scum and a trigger happy Vig or SK getting another kill in every 150 posts will discourage such. I expect the 84-hour bock game to be far more active than the 150-post block game.

I'm finding it difficult to accurately and adequately describe my issue with the clause she's using.

on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being "very minor quibble" and 10 being "she is making a huge mistake that could destroy the game" how severe is your objection? I estimate the risk to be of moderate intensity and unlikely probability.

[Adel]

I am getting exactly what I hoped for from this thread. I think that allowing pre-submissions for the next action phase is a good idea for all roles. I'm going to sit on it for a while before I edit the role PMs, but it will be something to the effect of "you may submit your action for the next (84 -hour block / 150-post block) at any time, but you will not be allowed to change your target once your move is submitted" for most roles and something like "you may submit your action for the next (84 -hour block / 150-post block) at any time, but you will not be allowed to change your target once your move is submitted. However, if your target is dead at that time you will need to submit an new target target due to your compulsion to kill" for the Vig and Sk roles.

I don't want to deal with players changing their mind every 3 hours. That is a recipe for mod error.

Thanks guys!

[Adel]

.. and there will not be a deadline in either game. How much do you think the (hydra + player list + activity in the other game + desire to get in multiple lynches in before the scum kill) will compensate for that de-motivating quality of post-based action phases?

Should I change it from 150 to a smaller number like 100, or should it be a decreasing quantity of posts like 175-25

n

where

n

is the number of the action block (yielding: 150, 125, 100, 75, 50, 25) with 25 as the min number?

[Adel]

The hydra thing might not make a difference, since if "conserving posts" is decided to be the best stratagy (and, again, that'll probably be up for debate in the game), but if it is, the two members of the hydra may just talk outside of thread, figure out everything they want to say, then make one big mega-post in thread that contains all of it; which would just slow the game down more, possibly much more.

it would need to 1 post every 72 hours to avoid a prod (3 prods ever in 1 game = replacement in both games)... and prods have to be requested, by name, which requires a post... and it will be hard to lurk in both games at the same time... so a min of 14 posts every 3 days = ~ 5 posts a day, so the realistic min length of first action phase should be about 30 days given a 150 post-count length... and the results of kills takes up a post, and vote counts (1 every 24 hours like clockwork?) takes up a post.. I think the decreasing number is a good idea. There will e a steady march toward the next phase.

150 -> 110 -> 85 -> 60 -> 45 -> 30 -> 25 -> 15 -> 15 -> 15 -> ...

[Adel]

I think a better method is simply to calculate the Post Deadline from a solely post per player equation with X number of posts/post added in to allow for mod posting.

I'm thinking about this. I was just throwing numbers out to test the range. I would prefer for everything to be set in stone before the game begin, and while an equation based upon the number of extant players is a possible solution, I am just not sure yet. Mixing a time based clause with the post based seems to be a compromise that dilutes the premise... something I prefer to avoid.

Definitely looking for more input.

~~~

@TSQ, I share your concern. Hopefully all of the players will seriously consider the probable time requirement, and recognize that it is probably more responsible to err on the side of caution and let other players with more free time join in their place.

~~~

@ WWB+RR, sure thing, just make a hydra and post here.

Did I miss any other hydra yet?

[Adel]

Hello BFFL

EDIT: Aw, just saw that RR-Wish took the final spot.
/in as

J-Scope

, backup/replace maybe?

I'm accepting 16 pre-/ins. Either two hydra will back out or fail to confirm, or I will be forced to make a choice, which will take many things (but not the order of pre-/in) into consideration.

~~~

right now I'm thinking about

7*number of living players

for when there are more than 7 players alive, and

10*number of living players

for when there are 7 or fewer players alive. Thoughts?

[Adel]

Also, Maybe we need an explicit rule about how often the mod will post votecounts, for the Beta game? How about 1 vote count every 25 posts (one page)? Then the day limit would be probably something like N*10+(N*10)%25 + 1, where N is the number of living players (the + 1 would be for the nightkills announcement)

(Unless you want to make votecount/NK announcements inside players' posts, but I don't think that is such a great idea)

I attempt to make one votecount every 25 (1per page) and I don't edit them into posts. I think that if we are just predictable in posting one votecount every page that will be good enough for the game.

I think you should allow up to one change to pre-submitted choices, AND/OR allow choices in the format "If X is dead, target Y instead". If even then the choice is dead by the time the action takes place, then the action fails/randomkill happens. I don't see a problem with the suicide clause - it is not like the SK could not see it in the rules and plan accordingly.

What do other people think of the

AND/OR

clauses? I am considering it.

[Adel]

awesome. so win. I am happy there was a spot open for y'all!

~~~

now leaning towards 11 and 14 for the 7+ and 7- values.

[Adel]

What do you plan on doing if people start using the 84 hour game to discuss the other one? How do you prevent this without disallowing the cross game meta thing (which seems both fun and somewhat inevitable) altogether?

Take a close read of my ruleset. certain things are allowed, and all others are banned. hydra with be able to talk about both games within the hydra, which should be fun. Scum are not allowed to talk about the other game in their QT thread, which I will be monitoring

Also, what's to stop to town from choosing two pro town looking guys (possibly with the help of claims) and quicklynching anyone but them?

the desire to win.

Site rules: No talking about ongoing games.

So two games starting together with the same player list and very similar setups are supposed to ignore each other completely?

Yes. I can't think of a better solution, while still preserving the "time" vs. "post count" comparison. Can you?

[Adel]

now leaning towards 11 and 14 for the

7+ and 7- values.

Huh?

for the game post based ability reset trigger. Currently the pms read "150 game-posts" which will be to long once the game is down to a few players.

the proposed revision I am considering is for the game-post based trigger to be (number of living players * 11) game posts when there are more than 7 living players and (number of living players * 14) when there are 7 for fewer living players.

another alternative: abilities trigger on pages 21, 34, 42, 47, 50, 53, 56, 59...

~~~

@RR the alternative (letting people talk about the other game in each game thread) seems worse to me. What if Player P is scum in both games, and his partners in alpha have been lynched. All three of them are alive in beta, and Player P's partners from alpha are townies in beta. Beta is in lylo. The temptation for his partners from alpha to out him as scum in alpha in order to win in beta may be too great. I can think of several other possible scenarios that would worse than awkward. Initially I wanted to let players in either game talk about the other game, but I've concluded there are just too many ways that could go bad. Most of you are used to being in two or more games with other players, it won't be too hard. (I've also considered not allowing players to talk about either game until

both

games are done, in order to reduce the chance of encouraging sub-optimal gambit play in one game in order to end one game quickly in oder to get better information for the other game. )
Quick lynching will be an optimal tactic at certain times in both games for every faction. I know that as scum I would definitely advocate quicklynching, especially those players that objected to quicklynching.
If you want to just flip a coin day 1 instead of playing mafia, that is your choice. Good luck convincing the rest of the players to go along with that!

[Adel]

I am close to deciding to make changes alogn the following lines:

• for beta, abilities will refresh on pages 21, 34, 42, 47, 50, 53, 56, 59, 62, 65...
  
  in both games Twilight (the period following the last vote needed to lynch,) will last for a set period. In alpha that period will be 6 to 18 hours. In beta that period will be = to 2 * the number of living players in posts. No votes will be accepted during twilight, and action submissions for the following period of day
  will not
  be accepted during Twilight. Flavor Excuse: lynchings are messy. The town has to clean up the gallows, burn the body, ect.. and it takes some time to build up the level of aggression necessary to kill another of your neighbors who might very well be innocent.
  
  in both games, the name of a target will be allowed to include an "OR" clause. The first name will be the first choice, and only if that name is not a valid target due to death, the second name will be used. Mafia kill submissions can use two OR clauses, the first for target, and the second for which member of the team is making the kill. Example: the scum team is P, Q, and R. R submits the kill "Q or P kills A or B". If Q is dead, then P will make the kill. If A is already dead, then B will be killed instead. If both Q and P are already dead, or if both A and B are already dead, then the mafia will kill nobody.

thoughts?

~~~
Of those players signed up, who has less than 1500 game posts? Which hydra are made up of two players from my previous games and/or WIHII?

[Adel]

I have less than 1500 game posts (1371 to be exact).

KaleiÃ

[Adel]

What does the bold pairs mean in your playerlist?

front of the line -- guaranteed spots in the game. I really don't think it will matter, chances are one hydra will implode in the next week or fail to confirm, and one hydra will probably (hopefully) volunteer to serve as a replacement.

[Adel]

give me a day to get the official "sign-up" thread open.

Claus, I asked Adel.

that was me.

[Adel]

revised 13. for Yos2.

revised 12. to deal with danger of hydra drama

this is getting really close to being finalized. Thoughts and questions?

[Adel]

revision:

9.

Action phases:

• DHSDSM

  α
  : reset every 84 hours.
  • a note on "Time": all times will be in UTC, and each action phase will have a countdown timer, similar to this countdown timer to the start of the games.
  DHSDSM

  β
  : reset on pages: 13, 24, 32, 37, 40, 43, and every third page after that (46, 49, 52...).

[Adel]

yes, that is allowed.

updating first post to reflect revisions.

[Adel]

Took a more in-depth look, figure I owe one you for RDS.

New page numbers for beta are cool. I'm worried about ortolan's loophole, though - when actions are refreshed every 3 pages, it's pretty easy for two scum hydras to coordinate like a 150 posts in the course of an hour an get two extra kills they need to win. Maybe imply a minimum time/refreshment restriction in order to prevent this?

awesome. I'll add a post/hour limit in the spam rule.

I assume roles such as tracker and blocker only effect actions performed from the moment the choice is submitted onwards, but that is not clear from the PMs.

tracker should say "during the next action phase" not "that action phase". editing now. Other than a slight typo in the RB PM, the others look good to me.

I get that the long twilight is supposed to prevent start of day races (serves as a sort of morning phase), but almost a full page with nothing happening in beta after d1 seems like a bit of overkill.

Allowing up to 144 hours of zero activity in alpha (72 hours for prod + 72 for replacement) is probably too much.[/quote]

[Adel]

added

Making more than 15 posts within an hour will also result in a modkill.

to the spam rule.

[Adel]

I think you will be able to cope

also, remember to confirm with both individual accounts as well as your hydra in the signup thread.

Both game threads have been created, and mod powers for Saunt Adelaus have been confirmed.

[Adel]

I don't know how to count :0