Mini Normal 2335: Rainbows (Day 4)

[RationalMadman]

@Not_Mafia, are you the user Black? I ask for meta read reasons and she used that type of intro.

[RationalMadman]

I believe voting no elimination is optimal. I know this site is hostile to that. I can't discuss ongoing games but I realised it ends up sidetracking more than helping to advocate it as this site is hardmeta dedicated to vote someone off DP1.

[RationalMadman]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

[RationalMadman]

Based on intro energy I Townread Charles so far.

[RationalMadman]

That's my only read, others are very slight/subliminal.

[RationalMadman]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

Complaining about things also doesn’t help. The game just started to arguments are small, they’re based on vibes initially but it snowballs into much more. Your entire philosophy seems to be unintentionally stagnating the game

If that is what it seems to be, that isn't my issue. My issue is solely what it does and it does the opposite.

[RationalMadman]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

In reference to your previous post, ending the day killing nobody isn’t optimal but I don’t have an issue with people who think it is.

Random voting is just something that happens, it’s a way to get conversation going. Sometimes an early wagon can help develop reads.

I can argue why it's superior game theory play for Town that DP1 ends in No Elim here rather than Scum.

The only time this becomes less true is with regulars who play hardball. Then softclaims and subtle buddying Vs bussing chaos can ensure to be read later.

[RationalMadman]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

Complaining about things also doesn’t help. The game just started to arguments are small, they’re based on vibes initially but it snowballs into much more. Your entire philosophy seems to be unintentionally stagnating the game

If that is what it seems to be, that isn't my issue. My issue is solely what it does and it does the opposite.

What?

Wherever I've seen mafia played, let alone played it, the personalities and approaches that instigate a lot only stagnate if they keep it drama focused Vs one specific other used.

My philosophy is to increase pressure and make the game keep forcing people to reveal their thoughts as it goes.

For example your attack on me here is Towny. I now have a townread on you I'd have lacked otherwise.

In contrast, the approach of another to me may be less Towny (and in this case was) but obviously it's never just that easy. It takes time to see consistency in approach and thinking process of a user. Higher consistency is Townier even if it's consistent failure to read well etc.

[RationalMadman]

Other user*

[RationalMadman]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

In reference to your previous post, ending the day killing nobody isn’t optimal but I don’t have an issue with people who think it is.

Random voting is just something that happens, it’s a way to get conversation going. Sometimes an early wagon can help develop reads.

I can argue why it's superior game theory play for Town that DP1 ends in No Elim here rather than Scum.

The only time this becomes less true is with regulars who play hardball. Then softclaims and subtle buddying Vs bussing chaos can ensure to be read later.

You say you can argue it but you also ignore my entire post talking about it

Do you want me to argue for it? Yes or no

[RationalMadman]

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

In reference to your previous post, ending the day killing nobody isn’t optimal but I don’t have an issue with people who think it is.

Random voting is just something that happens, it’s a way to get conversation going. Sometimes an early wagon can help develop reads.

I can argue why it's superior game theory play for Town that DP1 ends in No Elim here rather than Scum.

The only time this becomes less true is with regulars who play hardball. Then softclaims and subtle buddying Vs bussing chaos can ensure to be read later.

I'm interested in reading the argument, but I don't think giving scum a free Day 1 is ever going to happen. I don't see how we could ever pressure anyone if the threat of elimination doesn't exist.

Okay. Threat of elimination comes day 2 instead of day 1.

Fast no elimination increases the odds Mafia can't read PRs vs vanillas but the price paid is lack of reads Town has on Mafia.

13 people. This is simple normal with a set 3 Vs 10 split where neither side is ever that powerful in an offensive manner.

3 people need only towntell DP1. 10 people need to townread 9 others and scumread at least 1 other as a majority while themselves Towntelling to the 9. This makes Town far more rigged against.

Let's say they land on Scum. Scum will presumably100% of the time if remotely competent, claim a PR to either get votes off of them or to entice Town PR to CC. However this 100% is ofc an illusion. We can say someone who is scum may claim vanilla as a double bluff.

Town usually ends up with 3 scenarios happening:

1. They forced Town PR to out while voting Scum (beat case scenario).
2. They vote off Town vanilla (bad but not as bad as scenario 3).
3. They vote off Town PR and not in an exchange where the PR got CCd (that's 1 for 1 it's zero sum trade) but instead in a scenario where the PR was unccd and assumed scum. (This is the worst case scenario).

To avoid scenario 1, the Town has to I crease likelihood of scenario 3. It's a toxic situation where they don't even ha e 1 night action report to guide the way things go.

The Scum gains more from DP1 playing out in full in PR reads and planning who to frame later based on who people already suspect. I am fairly immune to blindly stick tosuch biased but most players aren't. Most stick to DP1 reads all game and deny it's pure stubbornness rather than reinforced reasoning to the reads. This lets Scum navigate nightkills to frame others and easily glide to DP4 even if partner was voted off DP1. Again and again and again this happens in general. People think it's just part of the game but it all is because they gained far more from DP1 nonsense talks happening and focused on who suspects who and kept it nicely surrounding them.

[RationalMadman]

Best case not beat case

[RationalMadman]

regardless of the merits/demerits of the argument, rationalmadman's hyper-engaged early posting and apparent desire to position himself as a town thought leader is setting off some bells for me. reminds me of what i've tried to do in my own scumplay.

Where did I do that? I only expanded on it when asked.

Everyone should try to lead Town btw. However they should earn it and not assume it. It is futile to play to not lead Town.

[RationalMadman]

Spoiler: Madman

This random voting doesn't help tells. I don't get the point of it since people also intentionally avoid building wagons randomly from it.

Wagons matter, pure randoms don't.

In reference to your previous post, ending the day killing nobody isn’t optimal but I don’t have an issue with people who think it is.

Random voting is just something that happens, it’s a way to get conversation going. Sometimes an early wagon can help develop reads.

I can argue why it's superior game theory play for Town that DP1 ends in No Elim here rather than Scum.

The only time this becomes less true is with regulars who play hardball. Then softclaims and subtle buddying Vs bussing chaos can ensure to be read later.

I'm interested in reading the argument, but I don't think giving scum a free Day 1 is ever going to happen. I don't see how we could ever pressure anyone if the threat of elimination doesn't exist.

Okay. Threat of elimination comes day 2 instead of day 1.

Fast no elimination increases the odds Mafia can't read PRs vs vanillas but the price paid is lack of reads Town has on Mafia.

13 people. This is simple normal with a set 3 Vs 10 split where neither side is ever that powerful in an offensive manner.

3 people need only towntell DP1. 10 people need to townread 9 others and scumread at least 1 other as a majority while themselves Towntelling to the 9. This makes Town far more rigged against.

Let's say they land on Scum. Scum will presumably100% of the time if remotely competent, claim a PR to either get votes off of them or to entice Town PR to CC. However this 100% is ofc an illusion. We can say someone who is scum may claim vanilla as a double bluff.

Town usually ends up with 3 scenarios happening:

1. They forced Town PR to out while voting Scum (beat case scenario).
2. They vote off Town vanilla (bad but not as bad as scenario 3).
3. They vote off Town PR and not in an exchange where the PR got CCd (that's 1 for 1 it's zero sum trade) but instead in a scenario where the PR was unccd and assumed scum. (This is the worst case scenario).

To avoid scenario 1, the Town has to I crease likelihood of scenario 3. It's a toxic situation where they don't even ha e 1 night action report to guide the way things go.

The Scum gains more from DP1 playing out in full in PR reads and planning who to frame later based on who people already suspect. I am fairly immune to blindly stick tosuch biased but most players aren't. Most stick to DP1 reads all game and deny it's pure stubbornness rather than reinforced reasoning to the reads. This lets Scum navigate nightkills to frame others and easily glide to DP4 even if partner was voted off DP1. Again and again and again this happens in general. People think it's just part of the game but it all is because they gained far more from DP1 nonsense talks happening and focused on who suspects who and kept it nicely surrounding them.

This strategy sounds nice in a vacuum, but requiring the entirety of the town to play optimally, let alone without confirmation bias, is a bit of pipe dream. And I don't see why town wouldn't just treat Day 2 as the "real" Day 1 in this scenario and do all the things that you want town to avoid during Day 1.

They'd have a nightkills choice and potentially a report of some kind to go off of. Either way, by their Day 2 they may have 2 actions instead of 1 to begin basing things off of, if they're voting a PR who outs.

I said I knew people won't go for it in my first post. I said it to see reactions to it though I do advocate for it.

[RationalMadman]

I have a red check on robbnva

Is this your way of saying you scumread him?

[RationalMadman]

Hu Tao vs Robbvna

It seems forced in some way, however HT may be genuinely irritated at Robb's reasoning and act this way.


Halfasleep vs me

I am unsure what is going on there. HA went from scumreading trying to lead Town to trying to lead Town to vote me with NO OTHER reads at all outed.

I won't speculate much more on it but it's strange to me. Idk what I'm even meant to defend against or reply to anymore from HA as my defense resulted in being voted.

[RationalMadman]

Roden and Charles seem towniest to me, Jackson Virgo is close to it but can easily do bursts of that and just chill between it, it's a strategy to towntell and then chill out.

My nullread pile is nearly everyone else.

Potential scum just because they aren't Towntelling to me at all so far are Halfasleep and Robbvna.

I am pretty sure I can be wrong on both and in my nullreads are all 3. I think 1 of the 2 can be in the team though, I doubt both are.

[RationalMadman]

Robbnva* not vna

[RationalMadman]

I’m having deja vu of something I can’t talk about lol

That being said, the m-word

(meta)

tells me RM is likely town. This is familiar.

not a huge fan of meta, but I was notorious for being able to replicate my town play as scum. I do get town vibes from them as well though.

This seems like positioning so that you can't detach from both backing the Townread on me and also from discrediting it at the same time.

[RationalMadman]

So that you can* autocorrect

[RationalMadman]

I am actually more in favor of a quick elimination vs a no elimination. While you make good arguments, they are ones I have seen in the past and I still think eliminating somebody is better for the overall ability to find scum.

I won't argue back much as I know it's a waste of time and energy because people here are deadset on DP1 votes.

Thre is a pseudotheory that wagon analysis matters a lot. Often one partner busses or refuses to vote Town, it's very rare both make themselves obvious through vote patterns etc.

The only thing wagons help with is that often a bussing partner is either at the apex beginning (leading vote) or the last 2-3 votes of a vote on their partner. Even that is a pseudotheory as they could have voted in the middle purely hoping to make people suspect scum is pushing on their partner due to how fast the wagon built.

DP1 vote analysis is not pseudo but is merely a small part of the equation. So much depends on so much else when analysing votes.

[RationalMadman]

I’m having deja vu of something I can’t talk about lol

That being said, the m-word

(meta)

tells me RM is likely town. This is familiar.

not a huge fan of meta, but I was notorious for being able to replicate my town play as scum. I do get town vibes from them as well though.

This seems like positioning so that you can't detach from both backing the Townread on me and also from discrediting it at the same time.

I mean if that’s how you feel I can’t change that but meta use has always been pretty unreliable. Good players can copy their town play as scum (at least back when I used to play). That’s not an opinion, just facts.

I meant can not can't (corrected it after).

If you understood the message correctly, you'd understand the issue is you're saying I'm towny yet discrediting it also.

[RationalMadman]

Later in the game, wagon analysis matters a lot. A lot of my theory though is based on 4 years ago. No idea what current trends are but quick wagons tend to make scum nervous because they don’t know if they should stay on or get off.

They make Town way more nervous assuming the wagon isn't on scum.

[RationalMadman]

Because if the wagon is on Scum, then yes Scum are just as nervous.

[RationalMadman]

I never understand if Scum and Town are proper nouns or lowercase.

[RationalMadman]

I am saying you are townie but discrediting your use of Meta. I openly admit that. People can act town or seem town while doing things I don’t agree with.

Okay... I assume you meant to say discrediting KJQ's use of meta since she is the one metareading me Town in the post you rebuked.

It isn't really in my best interest to question why you're townreading me since that can lead to you going back on it but that needs clarification later because clearly it isn't based on comparing my behaviour to other games I've been in.

[RationalMadman]

sorry, when I am posting from my phone I can get mixed up, plus I hadn't had my caffeine yet lol

why do you think asking me why I town read you, would cause me to go back on that read? I don't understand that logic.

I feel like your play so far has been pretty genuine, It's a little wifom but I also don't see scum talk about no lynching on day one because historically, that draws negative attention on them.

Attention is good whether you are scum or town. Hiding in the background is a noob strat.

It's stressful and can cause drama but keeping attention on you gives you influence even if it's negative influence. Mafia is a game where other than PR actions, all players have one primary power; influence.

I said what I said for the sake of it, so you shouldn't Townread it. I said it for reactions as I predicted the no elimination wouldn't happen. It's also why I haven't bothered voting for no elimination as a wagon of 1 for it is a futile joke.

[RationalMadman]

The reactions help me read.

[RationalMadman]

So this guy has 13 other accounts and Robbvna and doesn't know how long games go here or anything about the site's norms?

That's just unrealistic.

What's also unrealistic is Halfasleep suspecting me because I try hard. That's not a scumtell and she even admits I am a nullread while still staying on me.

[RationalMadman]

Spoiler: Robbnva

man I forget how slow games on this site can be. Some sites have 48 hour days which is too fast but 2 weeks is definitely too slow.

Then help to end it faster.

[RationalMadman]

By getting a good vote reasoning and pushing the wagon.

[RationalMadman]

Pressure is good, rushing isn't. Pressure can end days faster if done right.

[RationalMadman]

So this guy has 13 other accounts and Robbvna and doesn't know how long games go here or anything about the site's norms?

That's just unrealistic.

What's also unrealistic is Halfasleep suspecting me because I try hard. That's not a scumtell and she even admits I am a nullread while still staying on me.

It’s been four years. I know how long games last, usually though games i used to play wouldn’t be as stagnant as this one is. I would post a lot and generate a lot of activity. It just wasn’t good activity. I was known as a toxic player and I’m on a short leash so I’m not reverting back to how I used to play.

Spoiler: Robbnva

man I forget how slow games on this site can be. Some sites have 48 hour days which is too fast but 2 weeks is definitely too slow.

Then help to end it faster.

I’m voting my top scum read. The “why me and not somebody else who is doing what I did” and refusing to even name who those people are should be enough to warrant more pressure. I can’t make others vote him without being aggressive, but I’m not being aggressive anymore because that turns toxic fast.

I’ll add that the person I’m voting is still just existing and not trying to have meaningful interactions and can’t even be bothered to find a scum game of mine which they want to see for some reason.

They are happy doing nothing and that is scummy.

Nobody can be bothered to dig through 14 accounts where your latest has 7.7k characters worth. That's just ridiculous to demand.

[RationalMadman]

Spoiler: Hu Tao replying to Robbnva which is nearly the entirety of her contribution to the game other than townreading me.

VOTE: hu Tao

But why teddy bear?

VOTE: hu Tao

But why teddy bear?

"WHY ME" I found scum Bs and Gs

Honestly I don't feel like you have tried to engage yet, your content is been lacking so it is a good place to start.

Fry me

And am I the only one you think this of? We are only a few pages in. If not why single me out?

Fry me

And am I the only one you think this of? We are only a few pages in. If not why single me out?

yeah the old why me fry me, that was immediately what I was reminded of. BUt I haven't played mafia in like 4 years so maybe it is old school lol

You were the one who stood out to me the most, there are others who are attempting to enguage with others in a meaningful way. I am not a fan of Not Mafia, but we have a past and I always scum read them and they are one of the ones who could really push my buttons so for now I am just going to monitor from a distance.

Anyone else?

Fry me

And am I the only one you think this of? We are only a few pages in. If not why single me out?

yeah the old why me fry me, that was immediately what I was reminded of. BUt I haven't played mafia in like 4 years so maybe it is old school lol

You were the one who stood out to me the most, there are others who are attempting to enguage with others in a meaningful way. I am not a fan of Not Mafia, but we have a past and I always scum read them and they are one of the ones who could really push my buttons so for now I am just going to monitor from a distance.

Anyone else?

not that immediately jumps out at me like you did for some reason. Eventually I will go back and re-read but so far, you are a good vote. Your only game related activity so far is to question the person voting you, you aren't doing anything to progress the game nor are you scum hunting.

I question when someone makes a potential questionable move as you did. No need for me to force myself to fake scum hunting 4 pages in, I'm not scum.

I question when someone makes a potential questionable move as you did. No need for me to force myself to fake scum hunting 4 pages in, I'm not scum.

is my vote questionable because I voted you or for another reason?

Vote since it was singling me out for things others are doing too

I question when someone makes a potential questionable move as you did. No need for me to force myself to fake scum hunting 4 pages in, I'm not scum.

is my vote questionable because I voted you or for another reason?

Vote since it was singling me out for things others are doing too

who are these others?

People who have barely posted

Why would I need to? Most of the players aren't making posts to advance the game, its barely 5 pages in. So I still don't see that as a valid reason to vote me. But, I see this as not worth talking over since it could be playstyle difference and not worth getting distracted over.

I am not town reading you just for that, your play overall just feels town to me. It's day 1 so reads aren't going to be that strong, anyway. I am also rusty and I am not really used to developing town reads, but I am trying to not fall back into my old habits. That is why I have essentially ignored NM and not going as aggressive on Hu Tao as I would have in the past.

Can you send a scum game of yours? Even if it's awhile ago.

no but you can certainly look though all my accounts and find games. you can find a list of my alts in the ban thread

I'm not doing all that

This is why it is presumed you're Vs Robbnva. I say presumed as you call it a presumption. To most it's a conclusion.

However maybe it's a towntell if not straight township that you don't realise you've been primarily if not entirely pushing on Robbnva or against his push on you. I feel scum HT would clock that and not think to deny it's happening.

[RationalMadman]

Townslip* ship is autocorrect ffs

[RationalMadman]

Nobody can be bothered to dig through 14 accounts where your latest has 7.7k characters worth. That's just ridiculous to demand.

I meant posts not characters. Brainfart.

[RationalMadman]

Spoiler: Robbnva

man I forget how slow games on this site can be. Some sites have 48 hour days which is too fast but 2 weeks is definitely too slow.

Then help to end it faster.

By getting a good vote reasoning and pushing the wagon.

Pressure is good, rushing isn't. Pressure can end days faster if done right.

I don't think we're going to get anywhere as long as this discussion keeps going tbh. You're kind of the center of attention and everyone is either just spectating, commentating, or trying to challenge your strategy, and there isn't much alignment-indicative content being made because of that. I think it would be best to drop the argument altogether and focus on giving reads and making a serious vote.

What do you make of the current game state? Do you think scum is trying to lay low right now? Do you think Robb vs Hu Tao is TvS or TvT?

I don't get how I'm meant to guess that.

All 3 could be lurking absolutely but 2 of 3 could be (semi)active. No way to tell yet.

I outed my reads already, did you miss it?

HT I nullread until her not realising she's been after Robbnva. Now she leans Town. The reason I nullread her beforehand is she's operating in a strange way Vs her typical games. She's frequently active in this Normal games section (which is the primary section I like to skimread games of on the rare occasion I bother with this site) and usually waits until later into a DP to attack someone.

Her not registering that she has been defensive and inadvertently attacking Robbnva's towncred is a towntell to me since maybe she just felt a strong urge to defend.

From some things I have seen of Jackson Virgo, he is active no matter what his alignment is. That's a sheer given. Others are townreading him too readily, he'd do all he's done so far as Scum. However, I think he is Town because what he specifically said in response to my no elimination post is something that leaves me open to reply and scumtell or towntell based on how I react to it. This neutrality is how I see his townself acting there more than his scumself, for sure.

[RationalMadman]

I scumread Robbnva so far but it's not a strong one. I have no strong scumreads yet, I reckon HY Vs Robb is TvS or TvT both viable. SvS is obviously unlikely especially as HT led to Robb revealing his other accounts, that seems too naturally flowing to bs SvS interactions.

[RationalMadman]

HT not HY

[RationalMadman]

I just looked at the role PM again and realized that the link to the game was in the title

This is completely illegal to mention btw.

[RationalMadman]

I have been warned that apparently all in-game speculation about an in-game replacement is OGI even though on all other websites it isn't as long as it stays on topic and Ingame.

I will just state that I am considering it in my reads and leave it at that.

[RationalMadman]

I like that Robbnva wanted a prod of 2 members and publicly stated it.

This act alone makes me lessen my scumread on him.

I am seeing Black as scummy on entrance, feel she's voting T3 because either it's a bus and she hopes others react by disliking the wagon and turning it on someone or because T3 has lurked overall and is an easy target (she is the second vote on him, not first).

JacksonVirgo returning and complaining about people spacing his name and

nothing else

reduces my Townread on him.

[RationalMadman]

If you ISO lovekilling he's throwing out reads which is Towny but they seem to just be reads as in:

Say reads for the sake of it always try to.

Idk if this is scummy at all since I know of many players that play this way but to rigidly stick to this every post is odd.

His insight seems to stick to outing reads for the sake of it, there's something slightly unnatural about it.

[RationalMadman]

Awesomeming seems towny so far.

I am also liking Hu Tao and Roden.

[RationalMadman]

I think N_M is just going to troll all game, idk what to make of it.

[RationalMadman]

I also can't read T3, just tlike with N_M, pure nullread.

I also nullread BlackStar but feel I will be able to read this player as the game proceeds, based on them posting with some personality.

[RationalMadman]

Him* not them

[RationalMadman]

Charles I still lean Town.

The lurking style is clearly just how he does things, I expect bursts from him.

[RationalMadman]

If you ISO lovekilling he's throwing out reads which is Towny but they seem to just be reads as in:

Say reads for the sake of it always try to.

Idk if this is scummy at all since I know of many players that play this way but to rigidly stick to this every post is odd.

His insight seems to stick to outing reads for the sake of it, there's something slightly unnatural about it.

I have not always tried to say reads.

Okay click ISO on yourself and tell me where I'm wrong on it. Outing reads is obviously fine, I've done it. However outing reads without cross examining/interrogating is a way scum can try to seem Towny without really leading to more tells in others.

[RationalMadman]

So yes I have just given reads more recently, but I want to get the flow of this game going. I think a wagon on t3 and N_M would make them both have to play or potentially die.

Problem is... If they're Town, we gain absolutely nothing from it. By nothing I mean even the votes on them reveal NOTHING, since Scum and Town would have equal motive to vote them there.

[RationalMadman]

It's a reason I'm cautious to vote lurkers early, I'm a the opposite of most in that sense. I find lurkers are much easier to read as the game proceeds anyway.

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: halfasleep

I am content with this vote reaching wagon level.

All other votes feel wrong/too-soon atm.

[RationalMadman]

wagon on me is goofy at best. throwing out vibereads is perfectly reasonable early engagement.

Your reads, even on a vibe basis, make zero sense to me. Seems fabricated. You have been a scumread of mine all DP. It is not your vote on me, it's the why and how behind everything you're posting.

For instance, based on this wagon, are your reads the same, yes or no? Why?

[RationalMadman]

If you ISO lovekilling he's throwing out reads which is Towny but they seem to just be reads as in:

Say reads for the sake of it always try to.

Idk if this is scummy at all since I know of many players that play this way but to rigidly stick to this every post is odd.

His insight seems to stick to outing reads for the sake of it, there's something slightly unnatural about it.

I have not always tried to say reads.

Okay click ISO on yourself and tell me where I'm wrong on it. Outing reads is obviously fine, I've done it. However outing reads without cross examining/interrogating is a way scum can try to seem Towny without really leading to more tells in others.

So yes I have just given reads more recently, but I want to get the flow of this game going. I think a wagon on t3 and N_M would make them both have to play or potentially die.

Problem is... If they're Town, we gain absolutely nothing from it. By nothing I mean even the votes on them reveal NOTHING, since Scum and Town would have equal motive to vote them there.

I did Iso myself and my early posts have almost nothing to do with reads. I was mainly asking questions about certain things. In recent posts yes I have just give out info for no rhyme or reason so I understand your confusion on me being towny. But with both the times I gave reads their was really no reason to cross examine anyone, it's still early on in the game so trying to go out guns blazing asking tons of questions to people is counterintuitive this early

I think having vibe reads like HS is better than what t3 and NM have done. I am usually a lurker in other mafia games and putting pressure on the lurkers helps me find out if they are scum or not. HS has given reads based on vibes. I would like her to go into the specifics of how she got the reads before I vote on anyone.

By HS you mean HA?

I ask as HT and HA are both initials of players in this game.

[RationalMadman]

I'm not scumreading halfasleep because I disagree with what she's saying, I'm scumreading her because her justification of her vote on RMM is manufactured and made in bad faith.

How can you agree with bad faith reasoning?

[RationalMadman]

To try and get something going, I’ve liked Roden. I tend to agree with most of their statements, maybe not the vote on not_mafia but I find they’ve been townie.

What do you make of the current game state? Do you think scum is trying to lay low right now? Do you think Robb vs Hu Tao is TvS or TvT?

The current state of the game for me is that I feel NM should not be the kill currently but am willing to change based on how they play the rest of day 1. I like how you have been interacting unsure if this is mafia try to help town or town trying to truly get town on track, for now your my top town. RMM is bring attention to themselves but I think based on them being the main focal point so far we can keep them around unsure if they are town or not but they seem helpful.

I feel scum tend to try and lay a little low so my guess is maybe 2 that are quieter are scummy while 1 scum is more active trying to seem or at least play town.

Unsure their interactions seem more TvT but I’ve never played with them so I’ll have to see where they go further into the game
[/quote]

Its an early vote by Halfasleep, she might not think this is townie enough to remove to early vote on HMM.

Excluding fluffposts, these sum up the essence of your activity. Even asking if N_M trolls alot is setting yourself up to have a read based on it.

You clarifying you asked me a question and that anyone can answer is fluff.

So really I wasn't wrong saying you seem to be forcing reads. I stand by it and quoted these to clarify I didn't make it up.

[RationalMadman]

Wtf it showed a quite a my own text

[RationalMadman]

The current state of the game for me is that I feel NM should not be the kill currently but am willing to change based on how they play the rest of day 1. I like how you have been interacting unsure if this is mafia try to help town or town trying to truly get town on track, for now your my top town. RMM is bring attention to themselves but I think based on them being the main focal point so far we can keep them around unsure if they are town or not but they seem helpful.

I feel scum tend to try and lay a little low so my guess is maybe 2 that are quieter are scummy while 1 scum is more active trying to seem or at least play town.

Unsure their interactions seem more TvT but I’ve never played with them so I’ll have to see where they go further into the game

[RationalMadman]

You switch from me because others weren't voting me. Strange of Black to raise the issue and you suddenly join and vote.

I am voting halfasleep that's a sure scumread now.

[RationalMadman]

You switch from me because others weren't voting me. Strange of Black to raise the issue and you suddenly join and vote.

I am voting halfasleep that's a sure scumread now.

Who is this directed to?

The only person it could apply to.

[RationalMadman]

Should I unvote for her to claim

[RationalMadman]

I'm scared of quickhammer on PR, claim matters.

[RationalMadman]

UNVOTE: halfasleep

Waiting on claim

[RationalMadman]

Are your reads the same?

[RationalMadman]

anyway i'm a town cop. didn't expect to be made to claim over literally nothing but here we are.

my crumbs are here:

evidently

, i don't agree.

and here:

fair enough lol.

c

an't

o

verly

p

ick fault in that

VOTE: halfasleep

This reads as a bus if HA is fake. Make it crystal clear what you're doing here. I'm not about to vote cop based on a 'softed' cc you back out of later. Idc if it's antitown to say this, what you're doing is significantly antitown more so.

[RationalMadman]

It's 2024

Who puts a Town Cop in their 2024 Mini Normal

Truthfully idk the norms of setups here, just that they're super basic (and I like it that way usually so I'm not complaining).

A cop is a typical town investigative PR to have in a game. Idk if that's not usual here, I admit that.

I feel the cop is flavoured to weaken, potentially. However asking the flavouring is going to absolutely hurt Town. The cop if unflavoured means scum probably has 2 PRs then, to balance it out.

Idk how unusual that is. I know mafia but not specifically setup norms or rarities here, I am more interested in the game of reading people than setup mechanics personally.

[RationalMadman]

I am wondering why Black rushed HA to E-1. Something about it doesn't sit well with me, seemed faked reasoning to force a claim or enable a mishammer (or both).

Black wasn't scumreading HA prior to that.

HA not suddenly suspecting Black for it is very strange to me.

If those 2 are scum, it's unlikely the partner was on the wagon.

If they aren't and if HA is real it STILL leaves Black scummy.

Another thing to consider is an alternate bus scenario.

HT suddenly voted HA and HA switched targets to HT. If HA is fake, was that an agreed bus moment?

2 bus possibilities.

However, with HA as real cop the most disturbing vote was NM's not awesomeming's, contrary to what others say.

It came out of nowhere and enabled the wagon. NM has claimed cop in large coloured text in case others missed it. It's important to bring it up now if NM doesn't cc at all here. I don't comprehend it.

[RationalMadman]

HT voted HA in response to the switching target*

It doesn't matter which way around it was but the way it happened is even stranger actually.

[RationalMadman]

HA-real world leaves NM scum #1

HA-fake world leaves NM somewhat towny and Awesomeming extremely Towny.

[RationalMadman]

HA-real can mean NM is Town, sure, however it's about probability.

The NM vote screams opportunism to me. Even as a troll it doesn't add up to me where it came from and saying NOTHING since then?

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

This assumes HA is real cop.

I am decently confident this flips scum if HA is real. I am also confident sheeping my reads on who was the busser on the HA vote if HA is fake works too.

[RationalMadman]

This assumes HA is real cop.

I am decently confident this flips scum if HA is real. I am also confident sheeping my reads on who was the busser on the HA vote if HA is fake works too.

This or Black is significantly likely the 1/2 scumline to fire between if HA is real.

[RationalMadman]

HA Real

NM/Black
1/2 not 2/2.

both scream oppirtunism for differing reaaons in where they were in the wagon.

Town on wagon?
HT. I believe HT as scum doesnt 'omgus' vote there on Town, only on a bus-partner. its a combination of pdrsonality read and how rushed the vote was if HT is Scum. Scum HT there when switched to as a target, argues more and holds her vote.

I won't justify why I am Town. I can even understand scumreading me as second voter there, I never expected the wagon to happen that fast reaching e-1. I did scumread HA.

BlackStar is probably Town for suddebly voting HA there. He didnt even campaign for it, he just voted it as a read he had.

Awesomeming is not necessarily scum whatsoever. I do not see his vote how others do. He seemed to genuinely believe HA was scum, it was a clear continuitiy from his previous reads.

[RationalMadman]

HA Fake

HT or Black likely bussers.

I am content to vote Black instead of NM actually.

Town?
N_M and Awesomeming.

The early 2 voters, me included could be theorised to have busvoted hoping it didn't gain steam. I know I am Town and BlackStar is null slightly leaning Town for me.

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

This assumes HA is real cop.

I am decently confident this flips scum if HA is real. I am also confident sheeping my reads on who was the busser on the HA vote if HA is fake works too.

Not mafia is a troll so his cop claim likely wasn't real jsyk

I figured it could also be a real claim, cointoss really.

[RationalMadman]

I just think NM is trolling as Scum, not as Town. That's my current read if I assume HA isn't scum.

If HA is scum, NM is town and just intentionally sticking to the troll persona.

[RationalMadman]

If they did, don’t care. I’m just trying to understand the motive behind not voting a scum read if you have one.

Why did you, as somebody who keeps talking about how slow the game is and how you wish people were more aggressive not either get on the HA wagon or actively oppose it? Were you offline the whole time or just lurking?

[RationalMadman]

If they did, don’t care. I’m just trying to understand the motive behind not voting a scum read if you have one.

Were you offline or lurking and silent during the final 2 votes that put HA e-1? Please answer this.

[RationalMadman]

It's 2024

Who puts a Town Cop in their 2024 Mini Normal

Truthfully idk the norms of setups here, just that they're super basic (and I like it that way usually so I'm not complaining).

A cop is a typical town investigative PR to have in a game. Idk if that's not usual here, I admit that.

I feel the cop is flavoured to weaken, potentially. However asking the flavouring is going to absolutely hurt Town. The cop if unflavoured means scum probably has 2 PRs then, to balance it out.

Idk how unusual that is. I know mafia but not specifically setup norms or rarities here, I am more interested in the game of reading people than setup mechanics personally.

Set ups here typically don't have ungated Cops, so HA not claiming any modifiers is inherently suspicious. If she isn't an alt and is genuinely new to the site, she might not have picked up on that particular bit of site meta over the past few months she's been here.

Regardless we should probably avoid voting out a potential Cop just because of meta, if it's a real claim then scum have no choice but to kill her tonight.

People keep saying this as if protective role won't be on her...

No choice but to do that also ignores possibility of roleblockers or something like godfather/miller. Scum have options beyond just killing her NP1.

[RationalMadman]

Is godfather possible in simple normal?

[RationalMadman]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: black

[RationalMadman]

It's 2024

Who puts a Town Cop in their 2024 Mini Normal

Truthfully idk the norms of setups here, just that they're super basic (and I like it that way usually so I'm not complaining).

A cop is a typical town investigative PR to have in a game. Idk if that's not usual here, I admit that.

I feel the cop is flavoured to weaken, potentially. However asking the flavouring is going to absolutely hurt Town. The cop if unflavoured means scum probably has 2 PRs then, to balance it out.

Idk how unusual that is. I know mafia but not specifically setup norms or rarities here, I am more interested in the game of reading people than setup mechanics personally.

Set ups here typically don't have ungated Cops, so HA not claiming any modifiers is inherently suspicious. If she isn't an alt and is genuinely new to the site, she might not have picked up on that particular bit of site meta over the past few months she's been here.

Regardless we should probably avoid voting out a potential Cop just because of meta, if it's a real claim then scum have no choice but to kill her tonight.

People keep saying this as if protective role won't be on her...

No choice but to do that also ignores possibility of roleblockers or something like godfather/miller. Scum have options beyond just killing her NP1.

Follow The Cop is too optimal and too cringe for most mods to ever allow an ungated Cop and a protective role to both be in the set up. Even if a Roleblocker exists, that's still too swingy for town and basically requires scum to get lucky.

Is godfather possible in simple normal?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ple_Normal

I did read that site even for my previous game (can't talk about it, ongoing). I couldn't quite understand how much was ruled out for Mafia. Are mafia really only given roles Town can get barring juggernaut?

Nothing at all like janitor, godfather, lawyer, framer etc?

[RationalMadman]

Prod dodge. I’ll pronounce less active on weekends as I have more time to play when I’m at work.

I skimmed the last couple of pages. Not sure what to make of the cop claim. Im not sure I agree with the people saying there can’t be a cop in this setup, because you can easily look at past normal games and see there has been cops in normal setups. Even if it’s not used much, it’s an approved role and still possible. Some sort of mafia cop is also a possibility. That claim will resolve itself at some point though.

I’m still leaning toward awesome/half as scum together based on the reluctance to vote half until others did. I think awesome is a good compromise lynch with a high chance of a red flip.

I need to really dive into what’s been said while I’ve been away. It’s good to know I was right though. More pressure on someone equals more activity. This is why we use our voice and our vote. Town awesome should definitely be aware of that but chose to abstain from both most of the game.

I disagree. Awesomeming is on my town list rn.

[RationalMadman]

pourquoi?

You are assuming he has to operate in a certain way that even you yourself don't live up to, in order to be Town.

He ends up doing exactly what you say he had to do, as soon as he felt less cautious of his reads and had the chance to make a wagon, then is scumread for doing what you goaded him to do in the first place.

Meanwhile you've pressured nobody at all and just been a wordy bystander yet scumread him for being that despite him not being it.

[RationalMadman]

I was one of the first real votes of the game and pressured hu for quite a while. I then eventually switched to awesome and pressured them. So that’s not true at all.

Awesome was 4th vote on half, he didn’t vote him when he first scum read him and somehow you give him a pass for that. If half is town, that’s a bad vote. If half is scum, that’s a great spot for a bus vote.


Either way awesome didn’t want to vote half until others did and he doesn’t have a good reason for that.

A sole vote doesn't pressure when it takes 7 to eliminate.

Even 2 votes is nothing. Only at 4 is it actual pressure.

[RationalMadman]

I was one of the first real votes of the game and pressured hu for quite a while. I then eventually switched to awesome and pressured them. So that’s not true at all.

Awesome was 4th vote on half, he didn’t vote him when he first scum read him and somehow you give him a pass for that. If half is town, that’s a bad vote. If half is scum, that’s a great spot for a bus vote.

Awesome is not pressured until votes.

Nobody until much later in the game can truly terrify and pressure someone with a sole vote on them. Awesomeming voted HA when it went from a silly 3 person vote with NM as third, to an actual wagon where she soon was e-1.

He didn't have a single reason to bus there. He didn't need to do it at all. HU and Black were votes that more likely were reluctant busses.

[RationalMadman]

Just because he scumreads HA doesn't mean anything. He said he had a 'red check' in you iirc. He just outed general reads, it doesn't require a vote to be valid.

Which is more of a pressurer, someone who keeps voting just for the sake of seeming real with pressure or someone who waits until they have wagon potentiak and then pulls the trigger (not hammer trigger, wagon trigger)?

[RationalMadman]

I have a red check on robbnva

Does this mean awesomeming has to vote you to make the read real?

[RationalMadman]

I oppose an Awesomeming elimination.

I say it and leave it at that.

[RationalMadman]

I oppose an Awesomeming elimination.

I say it and leave it at that.

What are your thoughts on LK?

Towny enough for DP1.

Outs reads based on whatever and doesn't aggressively engage, only passively. This is a Towny trying vibe, at least for an early game phase.

[RationalMadman]

I oppose an Awesomeming elimination.

I say it and leave it at that.

What are your thoughts on LK?

And what are your thoughts on Charles, HA and yourself?

Why should I not eliminate you?

Why vote Awesomeming?

[RationalMadman]

And what are your thoughts on Charles, HA and yourself?

I don't have a strong read on Charles. He's vibing similarly to the only other game I've played with him. HA isn't locktown but I'm not really interested in fading there today. Me? I'm town

Why should I not eliminate you?

My HA vote wasn't scummy. I don't remember if there are any other reasons you think I'm scum

Why vote Awesomeming?

Mixture of me thinking he hasn't done anything particularly townie, wanting a wagon, and having a lack of better scumreads

All DP you are operating opportunistically.

Maybe that's your playstyle even as Town. You voting T3 upon entry was voting someone you felt wouldn't fight back much, imo. Then you suddenly putting HA e-1 felt unnatural. You didn't even ask for claim and declare intent to put e-1, nor did you justify the vote.

That both seems like a bus and an easy miselim at the same time.

[RationalMadman]

Your thinking isn't Towny.

[RationalMadman]

You voting T3 upon entry was voting someone you felt wouldn't fight back much, imo.

You're wrong. I've had success pressuring T3 into doing stuff before. Most recently in this game

Then you suddenly putting HA e-1 felt unnatural

Townies can play loose too

You didn't even ask for claim and declare intent to put e-1, nor did you justify the vote.

I didn't necessarily want her to claim so why would I ask for her to? I've never heard of declaring intent to e-1 before lol. As for your last point, I did explain why I voted. Maybe you just didn't like what I had to say

So your aim was to vote T3 to get him to do stuff?

[RationalMadman]

Yes. I've mentioned this already

I also can't read T3, just tlike with N_M, pure nullread.

Hey you know what helps with reading nullreads sometimes? Pressure. You may not like my vote for T3 but it serves a purpose

black please explain t3

I didn't get much in terms of scum pings when I was catching up but I liked Roden's vote and I like Roden so far in general so I wanted to add pressure there

Why did you like Roden's vote

I think pressuring you is a decent way to get you to do stuff

You would invite him if wagon built?

If your objective was a long DP with a lot of a ctivity why rush the HA lim?

These actions contradict each other.

I also doubt you'd unvote T3 if others joined it. It doesn't add up that you wanted to pressure him and also wanted a fast DP1 ending voting HA like that.

Why did you vote HA can you fully explain it?

[RationalMadman]

Unvote not invite

[RationalMadman]

You voting T3 upon entry was voting someone you felt wouldn't fight back much, imo.

You're wrong. I've had success pressuring T3 into doing stuff before. Most recently in this game

Then you suddenly putting HA e-1 felt unnatural

Townies can play loose too

You didn't even ask for claim and declare intent to put e-1, nor did you justify the vote.

I didn't necessarily want her to claim so why would I ask for her to? I've never heard of declaring intent to e-1 before lol. As for your last point, I did explain why I voted. Maybe you just didn't like what I had to say

I have seen games you're in with e-1. I mainly look at normal games so idk the norms elsewhere and I still don't fully know setup limitations for normals fof by heart, I am more interested in skimreading and guessing alignments during DP1/DP2 to see how well I read, then skipping to game over or waiting for it. It's a good practise.

[RationalMadman]

Putting someone e-1 and not intending to fade them.

"I cheated on you but didn't want to hurt you" energy.

[RationalMadman]

Rational why do you think ming is town

I have said why.

[RationalMadman]

I explained it in 387. Are you even reading my posts? How do you think I'm scum but you didn't read two of my responses to you?

393* ...not sure how that happened

I don't always rea posts fully btw, skimreading helps grasp tone/vibe/flow a lot better.

I read later for in depth slip spotting etc.

I like to read across many ISO posts of supers to traps their flow in a game. Yours seems much more opportunistic than scumhunting oriented.

[RationalMadman]

Rational why do you think ming is town

I'll repeat why.

His progression throughout the DP is what a Towny who is minimalistic but not entirely lurking would do.

[RationalMadman]

That sums up my Townread on ming

[RationalMadman]

Users not supers*

[RationalMadman]

Rational why do you think ming is town

I'll repeat why.

His progression throughout the DP is what a Towny who is minimalistic but not entirely lurking would do.

How do differentiate between lurky minimalistic town and lurky minimalistic scum?

If we assume HA is fake, it makes no sense for him to be the fourth vote genuinely enabling that elimination.

It also doesn't seem minimalistic to drop Sus on HA in the first place if he is HA's partner.

If HA is real, it is possible Ming is scum but why did he stop reacting? I feel if he is Scum he keeps pushing for HA to go as a fake there. I also feel him being very engaged earlier but suddenly bored is matching many other players, majority of who have to be Town.

A minimalistic Towny tends to try harder when others do and when they think it matters and disengage when they don't see others trying hard and think it doesn't matter.

[RationalMadman]

If HA is real, it is possible Ming is scum but why did he stop reacting? I feel if he is Scum he keeps pushing for HA to go as a fake there. I also feel him being very engaged earlier but suddenly bored is matching many other players, majority of who have to be Town.

I think scum back off of a PR claim for the town points quite often. And I would also argue that ming hasn't ever really been "very engaged". He has ten posts, and most of them come from a pointless argument with Robb in which ming doesn't even feel like he's trying to sort Robb

A minimalistic Towny tends to try harder when others do and when they think it matters and disengage when they don't see others trying hard and think it doesn't matter.

Huh? Scum do what you're describing here all the time. As the effort goes up the scum are pressured to try and keep up. Scum also thrive when everyone is doing nothing and they can blend right in

so why did Awesomeming vote HA if he is Scum?

[RationalMadman]

I would support a rational lynch if others do. They are back to a null read to me and we really won’t be able to work together. I’d still rather an awesome or hu lynch though.

go ahead, then vote Black off. I am pretty sure that's Scum. After Black, you are high on the list of potential scum as is HA, depending how later claims and progression go regarding her cop claim.

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

LK didn't vote HA, being willing to hammer is different to going 0 to 100

[RationalMadman]

when someone is e-1 they have to claim. There is nothing coordinated about knowing that.

[RationalMadman]

Robb suddenly wanting to vote me is not at all Towny btw, robb basically goes back and forth on his reads relentlessly, yet he can't justify why he himself didn't vote HA.

Robb/Black/HA can literally be the team.

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

LK didn't vote HA, being willing to hammer is different to going 0 to 100

Your original issue with me was that my vote seemed unnatural. I find it extremely hard to believe you found LK's intent to hammer natural after her previous posts. She wouldn't vote for T3 or NM despite thinking them being wagoned would be a good thing (258), she said she thought HA's vibe reads were better than what T3/NM were producing and even said she wanted to hear more about HA's vibe reads before voting for someone (274), she said she hates voting early (318), and then she declares intent by threatening to hammer HA (357)

Can you explain to me how this feels natural to you?

What does 'natural' mean when talking about someone being willing to hammer? I can't think how that's ever unnatural unless they hard townread the other player.

[RationalMadman]

when someone is e-1 they have to claim. There is nothing coordinated about knowing that.

False. You don’t automatically claim when an e-1. You claim when someone not voting asks for it and intend to hammer.

Those are identical. If I am e-1 I claim no matter what on any site/format of this game.

[RationalMadman]

Actually 494 might be on to something, idk, I'll look at it more when I come back

Are you going to also look 'at' the rest of the game?

Who outside HA are you most willing to vote?

[RationalMadman]

Robb suddenly wanting to vote me is not at all Towny btw, robb basically goes back and forth on his reads relentlessly, yet he can't justify why he himself didn't vote HA.

Robb/Black/HA can literally be the team.

Except I don’t suddenly want to vote you off and I haven’t gone back and forth on my reads. My sc reads have remained the same and you’ve made me doubt my read on you. I realize talking about NL isn’t strong enough compared to everything else you’ve e said recently.

For full clarity state your reads including townreads.

[RationalMadman]

That's not the reason I voted. Her gut reads were terrible. And didn't make sense

He also lied about why I did it and called me 'random' as some kind of freudian slip of assuming I randomvoted. Maybe it's a towntell that he called me Random.

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

LK didn't vote HA, being willing to hammer is different to going 0 to 100

Your original issue with me was that my vote seemed unnatural. I find it extremely hard to believe you found LK's intent to hammer natural after her previous posts. She wouldn't vote for T3 or NM despite thinking them being wagoned would be a good thing (258), she said she thought HA's vibe reads were better than what T3/NM were producing and even said she wanted to hear more about HA's vibe reads before voting for someone (274), she said she hates voting early (318), and then she declares intent by threatening to hammer HA (357)

Can you explain to me how this feels natural to you?

What does 'natural' mean when talking about someone being willing to hammer? I can't think how that's ever unnatural unless they hard townread the other player.

You said that me putting HA at e-1 was unnatural in 466. I want to know why you don't consider LK's progression on HA unnatural. She went from wanting to wait for HA to talk about her vibe reads before voting T3/NM to suddenly scumreading HA and declaring intent to hammer her and you didn't blink an eye

Is it unusual on this website to be willing to hammer someone DP1 even if you don't scumread them much? I am confused what you're asking me.

[RationalMadman]

Is it unusual on this website to be willing to hammer someone DP1 even if you don't scumread them much? I am confused what you're asking me.

I'm asking you why do you think me voting for HA is unnatural while also thinking that LK declaring intent to hammer HA isn't unnatural

Your stated reason for thinking my vote is scummy/unnatural is because I didn't scumread HA much before I voted. LK didn't scumread HA before she declared intent to hammer her. Why do you not think LK is scummy for that?

Because in my world putting someone e-1 is the vote that blackmails a claim and ensures they're 100% threatened. In yours, saying 'intent to hammer' is the stage it happens instead.

[RationalMadman]

Is it unusual on this website to be willing to hammer someone DP1 even if you don't scumread them much? I am confused what you're asking me.

I'm asking you why do you think me voting for HA is unnatural while also thinking that LK declaring intent to hammer HA isn't unnatural

Your stated reason for thinking my vote is scummy/unnatural is because I didn't scumread HA much before I voted. LK didn't scumread HA before she declared intent to hammer her. Why do you not think LK is scummy for that?

Because in my world putting someone e-1 is the vote that blackmails a claim and ensures they're 100% threatened. In yours, saying 'intent to hammer' is the stage it happens instead.

Regardless of which stage the claim happens, you should still be concerned that LK is suddenly ready to flip HA, just like you were concerned that I was suddenly ready to flip HA. The fact that you don't is part of the reason I think your reads are fake

LK said someone will hammer her unless she claims. LK was willing to hammer. How tf is that the same as putting her e-1 forcing the claim?

[RationalMadman]

Calling it for post game cred that LK is scum PR and Rational is her goon

Post game cred when you are scum doesn't work.

[RationalMadman]

Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

I think I feel the opposite now

Calling it for post game cred that LK is scum PR and Rational is her goon

I hope you realise how badly you slipped here.

[RationalMadman]

Does anybody else scumread Black?

[RationalMadman]

I was waiting for JV to return and finally tryhard. He clearly stated intent to and was dedicated to voting Black with me.

Then... This...

[RationalMadman]

Put greedybear on my scumreads list rn.

[RationalMadman]

NM Vs HA, one scum there I reckon. Not 2 though, just 1.

Black and Robb vs Awesomeming, 1 or 2 scum there and I bet it's Black.

Third otherwise if not Robb?

Hu Tao or greedybear.

This is my theory.

[RationalMadman]

Oh it's greedybanger not bear, I was confused by LK's message.

I am basing it on JV not GB.

[RationalMadman]

I guess BlackStar can be the third scum also. Now Gypyx.

[RationalMadman]

NM Vs HA, one scum there I reckon. Not 2 though, just 1.

Black and Robb vs Awesomeming, 1 or 2 scum there and I bet it's Black.

Third otherwise if not Robb?

Hu Tao or greedybear.

This is my theory.

If my Hu Tao wagon peters out, I join your Black wagon and they flip green, can I interest you in Hu Tao down the line? I do scumread Black but do not think Hu Tao/Black/HA is a viable team and im building myself a railroad.

I think I will be dead before 'down the line' is a significant thing personally. If scum don't fear me enough they're fools.

Your discussion is pointless. You're negotiating future eliminations based on nothing. Idk why others are so calm if we miseliminate. I want to eliminate correct always. I don't do if this then that, except when I am the vote. Then I out reads and say sheep me after.

[RationalMadman]

Your discussion is pointless. You're negotiating future eliminations based on nothing. Idk why others are so calm if we miseliminate. I want to eliminate correct always. I don't do if this then that, except when I am the vote. Then I out reads and say sheep me after.

At the point where its mechianically unwise to lynch HA and we are already also discounting their scum partner Hu Tao for the sake of the initial premise i'm not being calm about a mislynch, I am being realistic. HA/Hu Tao/Black doesnt make a lot of sense to me as a trio but I certainly don't townread black. What am I to do but to build a consensus?

If HT is Town, we gained nothing and potentially totally lost a good player on the right track. So either way around your logic works against you to persuade me to vote HT.

[RationalMadman]

Your discussion is pointless. You're negotiating future eliminations based on nothing. Idk why others are so calm if we miseliminate. I want to eliminate correct always. I don't do if this then that, except when I am the vote. Then I out reads and say sheep me after.

At the point where its mechianically unwise to lynch HA and we are already also discounting their scum partner Hu Tao for the sake of the initial premise i'm not being calm about a mislynch, I am being realistic. HA/Hu Tao/Black doesnt make a lot of sense to me as a trio but I certainly don't townread black. What am I to do but to build a consensus?

If HT is Town, we gained nothing and potentially totally lost a good player on the right track. So either way around your logic works against you to persuade me to vote HT.

Lynching town bad. Revolutionary thought. I can see why scum would have to be terrified of you.

Sheeping HT wagon, revolutionary thought.

[RationalMadman]

NM Vs HA, one scum there I reckon. Not 2 though, just 1.

Black and Robb vs Awesomeming, 1 or 2 scum there and I bet it's Black.

Third otherwise if not Robb?

Hu Tao or greedybear.

This is my theory.

If my Hu Tao wagon peters out, I join your Black wagon and they flip green, can I interest you in Hu Tao down the line? I do scumread Black but do not think Hu Tao/Black/HA is a viable team and im building myself a railroad.

This is blatantly lining up miselims

VOTE: Greedy

Why did you give up on the Charles vote btw?

[RationalMadman]

Sheeping HT wagon, revolutionary thought.

That an accusation or an offer? By all means come on over, i'll make brownies.

Quite JV's last 3 posts in this thread and tell me why he made them.

I can't ask more as it apparently is OGI but there's a context I need to to answer in. Why did he says all that just for it to end this way?

Justify his thinking to me as a Town one.

[RationalMadman]

Quote*

[RationalMadman]

UNVOTE: black
VOTE: greedybanger

[RationalMadman]

If JV had come back with intense tryhardihg and analysis like promised, I'd have Townread him.

The total absence of that combined with GB's joining on HT which isn't explained well at all make me vote GB.

[RationalMadman]

Lack of WIM is not alignment-indicative.

Why did you feel the need to address a question for me that I had refused to entertain?

The way HT and HA engaged is plausible bussing, however HA was voting me beforehand and I know she wasn't bussing me as I am Town. HA if fake switched to HT because nobody else was voting me, in what easily was a last ditch hope for a Town elimination, rather than a bus.

Meanwhile, your reason for voting HT makes no sense and JV's thought process is null overall as it was building towards elaboration that never came but was explicitly promised.

You aren't towny to me even slightly. You refused to answer a completely reasonable question. Explain JV's tone and angle/thinking. Behind his last few posts, especially the ones 2nd last and 3rd last.

[RationalMadman]

I like Greedy's sass, not in the "I think it's townie" kind of way but in the "this game needs a blunt aggressive voice" kind of way

I've tried being that way, apparently it's against rules if I do and not if others do it. That's literally the only thing my 8 day game ban taught me. So, I am more cautious in my tone plus in this game I am not really being attacked much, except by Black so far which is good.

I want pressure, it's always good.

[RationalMadman]

Sheeping HT wagon, revolutionary thought.

That an accusation or an offer? By all means come on over, i'll make brownies.

Quite JV's last 3 posts in this thread and tell me why he made them.

I can't ask more as it apparently is OGI but there's a context I need to to answer in. Why did he says all that just for it to end this way?

Justify his thinking to me as a Town one.

Lack of WIM is not alignment-indicative.

What is this acronym I tried searching on the Internet and have never heard it before in my life.

[RationalMadman]

Want-It-More

It essentially means if someone has enough motivation to try hard and follow up on their arguments, especially during strenuous games

This is 70% meta dependent, 30% true for all dependent.

30% is that everyone in general if prkksijg to show up later and dedicating to vote Black on a serious read as well as pushing things like 'go for it vote NM, I will reread the game get to this in depth later' etc but then suddenly doesn't, that's more often scum than Town.

70% is from what I've seen in Normals at least, JV is a spearhead tryharder as Town, leading constantly and barely ever giving up. As Scum, he is more in and out. I've skimread, I think there's one game of his I read in more detail as I got curious but that's not because of this game, he's just a frequent tryharder here and much more so as Town.

[RationalMadman]

Promising*

[RationalMadman]

Lack of WIM is not alignment-indicative.

Why did you feel the need to address a question for me that I had refused to entertain?

The way HT and HA engaged is plausible bussing, however HA was voting me beforehand and I know she wasn't bussing me as I am Town. HA if fake switched to HT because nobody else was voting me, in what easily was a last ditch hope for a Town elimination, rather than a bus.

Meanwhile, your reason for voting HT makes no sense and JV's thought process is null overall as it was building towards elaboration that never came but was explicitly promised.

You aren't towny to me even slightly. You refused to answer a completely reasonable question. Explain JV's tone and angle/thinking. Behind his last few posts, especially the ones 2nd last and 3rd last.

HA switched to HT after they set up thier cop claim but before they made it. Absolutely INSANE behaviour for an actual cop to claim actual cop there. I don't think it was a particularly good scum play later as we are just going to get to them eventually and ignore them in the meantime unless they get a positive result. I'm panicking over a wagon that while substantive was in no way unsalvageable. I'm making mistakes. I know I am. At this moment with the future unclear I decide to bus to give my buddy some credibility long term.

That was the extent of my HT read tbh. Though I don't think they have reacted well to pressure.

And again no, i am not going to speculate on the thought process of the replaced player. If I was a mindreader my participation would all be rather unethical no?

I am not asking why he quit, that's the OGI part (though to me that's not OGI, on here there's a very conservative approach to OGI).

I am asking up until he quit, the posts just before he quit are explained how? They seem very scummy if he never followed them up. Passive-aggressive even.

[RationalMadman]

You know RM if you had just joined the HT wagon which your reads weren't against we could have been so good together.

Make your case for HT being Scum.

[RationalMadman]

You know RM if you had just joined the HT wagon which your reads weren't against we could have been so good together.

If I assume you're Town, which I do not assume, it doesn't serve either of us for me to blindly sheep the HT wagon. It feels of scum opportunism post flip, if HT also is Town.

If HT is scum, I am just wrong. Right now I think Black is scummiest because of holes in her logic of how she's reading people not just voting and acting. I also find Robbnva scummier than HT.

You replaced someone I leaned Town. I leaned him Town contingent on a burst of tryhard activity incoming that never arrived. It's scummy to enter the game and suddenly push on HT making a 2/7 dream wagon become a 3/7 projected successful wagon for people to join with 3 and whatever fraction of days were left when you made that vote.

[RationalMadman]

Reeks of, not feels of*

Autocorrect.

[RationalMadman]

If there is a cop it probably is flavoured but it is helpful to scum much more than Town to know what it is.

HT not elavorating on that is identical to me and others originally on the wagon. I just invited beforehand to leave it e-2 instead of e-1 while the claim happened.

[RationalMadman]

HA going completely silent since then is very scummy though.

I feel a real cop that's outed has an urgency to lead and pressure.

[RationalMadman]

We are never getting the payoff on a core part of why I wanted the HT wagon to take off quickly and without full explanation which was hinted at with the original vote. So I might as well get into it. My case was based on HA associations and HA was on the wagon. If we could have pumped that wagon up there and then id have been interested to see what justification a panicked scum HA would have made to get off of it.

That gains you nothing you can use.

If HA is Scum with HT, the info would be irrelevant.

If HA is Scum and HT isn't, it will be too late to change it once the hammer happens.

If HA is Town and HT is Scum, it's pretty clear HA scumreads HT.

If HA is Town and HT is Town, then... Game over?

[RationalMadman]

Unvoted* elaborated*

[RationalMadman]

Charles is trolling too hard to be scum

[RationalMadman]

Greedy just seems a bit too. Theatrical for me. That's why I think they are scum

Yep. All drama 0 content. Can't even have the courtesy to answer a basic question about JV's posts that he replaced.

[RationalMadman]

Remind me. What was the town slip?

Hi, sorry that I haven't posted until now. I never got a link to the game so I didn't know that it started

I just looked at the role PM again and realized that the link to the game was in the title

This is too gimmicky and gutless to come from scum. The implication is that if he was scum, he would actually know that the game had started since the scum PT would be active and talking about the game.

I just don't think that two different players within the same slot would try to fake a town slip as scum.

Scum can easily say that. Easily.

[RationalMadman]

Greedy if I was town how would that change any reads you have?

HA actually goes down towards town. Black goes up towards scum. RM goes up towards scum. Anyone on awesomes wagon who isn't you goes up as we are coalescing towards a terrible compromise candidate here in a hurry and it reeks.

I am not on awesime's wagon and this is not coherent at all. How does HT Town make me scum?

Black is probably Scum if you're Town and HT are Town, that's logical given events. I don't see how I am and I don't at all see how HA is likely Town if HT is Town.

[RationalMadman]

Greedy if I was town how would that change any reads you have?

HA actually goes down towards town. Black goes up towards scum. RM goes up towards scum. Anyone on awesomes wagon who isn't you goes up as we are coalescing towards a terrible compromise candidate here in a hurry and it reeks.

This honestly sounds made up. Can you genuinely cover that and explain why no first person changes?

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Behaviorally I think Rational reads town but I'm starting to think that may just be a personality thing. The reads on me/ming/and LK feel manufactured

I think town!Rational would have an issue with LK going from 0 to 100 on halfasleep. If the thought process of "Black = scum due to halfasleep vote" is real then Rational would have found an issue with LK's progression too. Him completely ignoring it makes it possible that LK is his buddy and 357/362 was a coordinated push to get HA to claim

I also feel like Rational may be spewing ming as town here because the townread makes so little sense that it feels like it has to be informed, though there's a chance he's just coming up with awful reasons to defend his buddy. Regardless I think Rational is probably more likely to flip scum

I buy this

I'm gonna read more but I buy this and might vote RMM

Why am I Scum under your own reasoning?

[RationalMadman]

Greedy if I was town how would that change any reads you have?

HA actually goes down towards town. Black goes up towards scum. RM goes up towards scum. Anyone on awesomes wagon who isn't you goes up as we are coalescing towards a terrible compromise candidate here in a hurry and it reeks.

This honestly sounds made up. Can you genuinely cover that and explain why no first person changes?

What do you mean by first person?

I thought I wrote other, this website seems to make autocorrect go on steroids much more than normal texting.

I mean other reads on others don't alter at all, only those 3?

[RationalMadman]

Robbnva, Roden, T3, awesomeming327 - Your votes right now are not going anywhere. Please either make a stronger case or be constructive elsewhere. Town WILL be led by scum with so many non participants.

Not_Mafia, Charles510 - I know you guys are going for a whole shtick thing here (And I do not wish to damage your glass houses) but the same can be said of yourselves. Find some way to incorporate your shtick into doing anything please.

Did all the people your first part warned earn a townread from you? Otherwise it's a strange warning.

[RationalMadman]

i understeand why kay's ISO was so short now lol

UNVOTE:

i must go, i'll be pondering my orb

Very weird. This may be a scumslip not a townslip. You reread game and didn't take note who replaced who?

[RationalMadman]

Hey RM do you still want the taste of sweet sweet Black blood?

Well yes but I also scumread you tbph. I think Black is playing very opportunistically which as I said can be a personality trait rather than a scumtell for her. I default it to scummy and stand by that.

Can we get votes on her or are you just trying to survive?

[RationalMadman]

Black and Gypyx are not scum together, that would be over the top wifom.

That's one thing all can base the game on.

[RationalMadman]

Robbnva, Roden, T3, awesomeming327 - Your votes right now are not going anywhere. Please either make a stronger case or be constructive elsewhere. Town WILL be led by scum with so many non participants.

Not_Mafia, Charles510 - I know you guys are going for a whole shtick thing here (And I do not wish to damage your glass houses) but the same can be said of yourselves. Find some way to incorporate your shtick into doing anything please.

Did all the people your first part warned earn a townread from you? Otherwise it's a strange warning.

If I don't think that those are the exact three scum team then its meant for SOMEBODY. Scum will ignore it. I don't get the issue here, did you read it as performative, coaching or something else?

I read it as survivalist, which I suppose is akin to performative. You wanted them to help you divert the vote from yourself.

I do wonder why you @d awesomeming though, maybe it wasn't survivalist.

[RationalMadman]

Put greedybear on my scumreads list rn.

Oh it's greedybanger not bear, I was confused by LK's message.

I am basing it on JV not GB.

Has this changed at all yet Madman? What's your view on Greedy at this point?

I'm voting him and just said I scumread him.

[RationalMadman]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Not_Mafia

You were trying to get votes on HT earlier when you thought random was going nowhere.

Now HT looks to be going nowhere. Join us on awesome?

Why Awesome and not Charles or Not_Mafia. What differentiates these slots to you?

I can reply to both the question and the NM vote. If you want me to.

[RationalMadman]

Alright, just wanted to see if this was a tunnel on the slot or if you specifically scum read Greedy now

I scumread others too, I've made my reads crystal clear.

Tunneling and scumreading are not mutually exclusive if anything they're mutually inclusive.

[RationalMadman]

You were trying to get votes on HT earlier when you thought random was going nowhere.

Now HT looks to be going nowhere. Join us on awesome?

Random

[RationalMadman]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Not_Mafia

You were trying to get votes on HT earlier when you thought random was going nowhere.

Now HT looks to be going nowhere. Join us on awesome?

Why Awesome and not Charles or Not_Mafia. What differentiates these slots to you?

I can reply to both the question and the NM vote. If you want me to.

NM is negative utility to either team he is on due to the dedicated playstyle literally based around being as antitown as he can get away with with as little effort as can be spent on it.

If he is Scum, he will lose later for his team. That's my hope anyway. If he isn't Scum, then he is clearly a wrong vote.

I don't see why targeting NM is such a good idea this late into the DP. I also believe a Scum HA means a Town NM firmly, look at the votes and approach NM has taken.

As for the differentiation, Charles can be scum with anybody at all in the game. One of his partner maybe even busvoted him for the sake of it to which he scumreads them back. This is not true for NM and Awesomeming.

Playstylewise, NM and Charles have far more in common than either with Awesomeming. Awesomeming is trying, just low frequency posting, the other 2 are trolling with intent.

[RationalMadman]

RM I really think I can be called a lot of things in this game but survivalist isn't one. If we had to kill a green flip today I've at least come in and made some noise that can be combed through to inform later decisions. If my goals here were survivalist I would coast through like 4 and a half days without much scrutiny, or at least scrutiny shared with like 6 other candidates.

Your goals are survivalist even if you deny it and make it about me not being scary. You very clearly don't want to die this DP and that is the primary objective of your interactions in this later part of the DP. What is the point in denying that?

You know you can't stop the Awesomeming wagon yet pretend to be protesting it, happy it's not you but preemptively annoyed that he will flip Town. That's the read I get. You could feel all that as Town though. For what it's worth, I also believe awesomeming flips Town and am not happy about the vote. I don't see who else to vote.

[RationalMadman]

By vote at the last part I mean a vote that will carry to elimination

[RationalMadman]

I will not vote Awesomeming and am actively against the vote but I think no other vote is going to succeed now.

[RationalMadman]

You already said if HT flips Town, Black and I are who you target next. If I vote HT off with you and she flips Town and if you are Town, I am guaranteeing a you Vs me dynamic down the line. That's not good at all.

HT is not really scumtelling, the reason I do out her firmly in my scumpool is there is something that seems buslike about her and HA. So unlike you, a Scum HT makes me suspect HA is Scum too.

[RationalMadman]

Robbnva, Roden, T3, awesomeming327 - Your votes right now are not going anywhere. Please either make a stronger case or be constructive elsewhere. Town WILL be led by scum with so many non participants.

Not_Mafia, Charles510 - I know you guys are going for a whole shtick thing here (And I do not wish to damage your glass houses) but the same can be said of yourselves. Find some way to incorporate your shtick into doing anything please.

Did all the people your first part warned earn a townread from you? Otherwise it's a strange warning.

If I don't think that those are the exact three scum team then its meant for SOMEBODY. Scum will ignore it. I don't get the issue here, did you read it as performative, coaching or something else?

They are 4 not 3 btw

[RationalMadman]

If JV had come back with intense tryhardihg and analysis like promised, I'd have Townread him.

The total absence of that combined with GB's joining on HT which isn't explained well at all make me vote GB.

Do you think JV was trying to bus me or do you think we're unpartnered?

Bus. I think it was intended to not carry through this DP and become a thing later. This a assumes Scum JV

I think it goes like this:
NM Vs HA 1 scum.

Black, Robb, awesomeming, 1 scum. (Maybe T3)

GB, HT, Gypyx (maybe T3, can't read him at all) 1 Scum.

Other team combos that contradict that don't add up to me as is.

That's my current theory.

Charles is trolling Town.

Roden is typical Town.

LK is slightly Town.

[RationalMadman]

I will not vote Awesomeming and am actively against the vote but I think no other vote is going to succeed now.

Unless you've got anything tangible awesome is the slot that has the highest odds of flipping scum

No, it isn't. You made that up.

[RationalMadman]

this game is so hard to engage with idk why. just reading this thread is making my eyes glaze over but i'll try to give some catchup thoughts:

- ming i think is lurking town. i've seen similar posting patterns from him before (i was scum then tho).
- i think i was probably wrong on rationalmadman. his arguments with black are screaming tvt to me.
- i think a lot of discussion is being wasted speculating on things i haven't said.
- hu tao and robbnva still slight scumvibes.
- roden, gypyx, greedybanger townvibes.
- everyone else is null. complete white noise.

do you think ming would act differently as scum?

I know he would but can't discuss one of the games that let me know that as it's ongoing. I have seen him as both.

[RationalMadman]

You already said if HT flips Town, Black and I are who you target next. If I vote HT off with you and she flips Town and if you are Town, I am guaranteeing a you Vs me dynamic down the line. That's not good at all.

HT is not really scumtelling, the reason I do out her firmly in my scumpool is there is something that seems buslike about her and HA. So unlike you, a Scum HT makes me suspect HA is Scum too.

You are putting a lot of stock in the idea that I was honest about my reads to the person I have been trying to kill since my first post. I actually do agree that HT bussed HA. My only objection was that for both Black and HT to bus HA is probably too much. I'm now not scumreading Black. We do not share the exact same view of the board here but we have common ground and can work towards it.

No I'm not. I am voting you and believe you can be lying. I was talking about if you're Town.

[RationalMadman]

I will not vote Awesomeming and am actively against the vote but I think no other vote is going to succeed now.

Unless you've got anything tangible awesome is the slot that has the highest odds of flipping scum

No, it isn't. You made that up.

Can we please try to tone down the biterness? This is something i'm legitimately thinking, and we're not gonna go very far approaching things like that

I do not owe you some tone just like you don't owe me some tone. I can be bitter after he flips Town, right now I just said a fact. You made up 'odds' that don't exist.

[RationalMadman]

well uh, we're supposed to be playing a game together, i'd like it if we treat it as such but ok

Then reply to me about the odds you made up.

[RationalMadman]

Hu Tao please vote greedybanger again or Ill be forced to vote you as I Townread awesomeming and you're the only other wagonable person.

[RationalMadman]

Arguing semantics about the odds of someone flipping scum Day 1 is useless. Gypy is saying that she feels most confident that Awesome will flip scum over anyone else and hasn't been given any evidence to suggest otherwise; she didn't actually run a statistical analysis on scum flip percentages.

Then don't say you did.

[RationalMadman]

Hu Tao please vote greedybanger again or Ill be forced to vote you as I Townread awesomeming and you're the only other wagonable person.

If you think Greedy is scum, then voting the way he wants would be counter-productive, wouldn't it? He wants to elim Hu Tao and doesn't want to Awesome to be elim'd.

I don't have a hard scumread on him if that's what you mean. I scumread Black the most.

[RationalMadman]

I don't really have a hard scumread on anyone. The order is as follows

[RationalMadman]

• 1. HA if fakeclaiming
  2. NM if HA is real both contingent on other.
  3. Black
  4. Robbnva
  5. GB
  Joint 7. HT/Gypyx
  8. T3
  9. Charles
  10. LK
  11. Awesimeming
  12. Roden

[RationalMadman]

Scummiest to Towniest read.

[RationalMadman]

Only 1 is strong.

[RationalMadman]

Black Vs Robb is probably 1 or other, not both.

[RationalMadman]

Hu Tao please vote greedybanger again or Ill be forced to vote you as I Townread awesomeming and you're the only other wagonable person.

How am I the only other viable wagon? I have 1 vote on me and ghats half asleep who hasn't been here in basically days

HA posted within the last day but it was only 1 post.

Greedy is willing to vote you. Awesomeming would vote you to save himself, I am pretty sure someone else voted you as well and others may.

[RationalMadman]

Charles is the other who voted you

[RationalMadman]

Not sure why you said HA only.

[RationalMadman]

RM I really think I can be called a lot of things in this game but survivalist isn't one. If we had to kill a green flip today I've at least come in and made some noise that can be combed through to inform later decisions. If my goals here were survivalist I would coast through like 4 and a half days without much scrutiny, or at least scrutiny shared with like 6 other candidates.

Your goals are survivalist even if you deny it and make it about me not being scary. You very clearly don't want to die this DP and that is the primary objective of your interactions in this later part of the DP. What is the point in denying that?

You know you can't stop the Awesomeming wagon yet pretend to be protesting it, happy it's not you but preemptively annoyed that he will flip Town. That's the read I get. You could feel all that as Town though. For what it's worth, I also believe awesomeming flips Town and am not happy about the vote. I don't see who else to vote.

Isn't being a survivalist good for his alignment? Or is it just good for mafia to have this happen?

3 Vs 10. Who needs to survive more, ignoring PR vs vanilla considerations?

[RationalMadman]

RM I really think I can be called a lot of things in this game but survivalist isn't one. If we had to kill a green flip today I've at least come in and made some noise that can be combed through to inform later decisions. If my goals here were survivalist I would coast through like 4 and a half days without much scrutiny, or at least scrutiny shared with like 6 other candidates.

Your goals are survivalist even if you deny it and make it about me not being scary. You very clearly don't want to die this DP and that is the primary objective of your interactions in this later part of the DP. What is the point in denying that?

You know you can't stop the Awesomeming wagon yet pretend to be protesting it, happy it's not you but preemptively annoyed that he will flip Town. That's the read I get. You could feel all that as Town though. For what it's worth, I also believe awesomeming flips Town and am not happy about the vote. I don't see who else to vote.

Isn't being a survivalist good for his alignment? Or is it just good for mafia to have this happen?

A survivalist only wants to live, the rest is secondary. That's the key difference bs Town who seek out scum and value that over their own survival with who they vote and why.

[RationalMadman]

I think both Rational and Greedy are trying to get us away from a ming fade and that just makes me want to fade ming more

You said you had changed your mind I was Scum and then said I'm with LK. Now suddenly you claim to think I am with greedy and Awesomeming?

[RationalMadman]

I think both Rational and Greedy are trying to get us away from a ming fade and that just makes me want to fade ming more

You said you had changed your mind I was Scum and then said I'm with LK. Now suddenly you claim to think I am with greedy and Awesomeming?

I never changed my mind about you being scum. I'm not sure who is partnered with who tbh

You said 'the opposite' and stopped voting me.

[RationalMadman]

Charles is the other who voted you

He unvoted

That guy will revote you as well if it comes down to it or at least appears willing to.

[RationalMadman]

Charles is the other who voted you

He unvoted

That guy will revote you as well if it comes down to it or at least appears willing to.

Either way the wagons seems to be awesome or greedy based on the last few posts. Charles even said he would vote 1 of them earlier. So no reason for you to think I'd be the wagon. You should still be pushing greedy

I did, in the very post your replied to angry that I said you're the alternative.

[RationalMadman]

Maybe it's just ming/Greedy

772 seems like a lie and I don't understand why town!Greedy would lie here

how do you feel about it potentially being greedy attempting to white knight ming, getting caught, and hoping a mind townflip will calm some of the heat?

Why aren't you suspecting me of that?

[RationalMadman]

Something feels wrong about how suddenly this switch has happened. Regardless I'll stick to it as it helps solve later for me and others. GB will always be in my scumpool for however long were both alive in the game.

If this is wrong, I still believe Awesomeming is Town.

[RationalMadman]

• 1. HA if fakeclaiming
  2. NM if HA is real both contingent on other.
  3. Black
  4. Robbnva
  5. GB
  Joint 7. HT/Gypyx
  8. T3
  9. Charles
  10. LK
  11. Awesimeming
  12. Roden

I am the most obv town in the game

To who?

[RationalMadman]

Awesomeming never posts a lot especially not on DP1s.

Metadive him a bit and stick to ISOs.

When he is Scum he tunnels and aggravates others more. When he is Town he does things like suddenly voting HA there and disengaging if it goes wrong and just not caring.

He never tryhards ever. Show me I am wrong.

[RationalMadman]

• 1. HA if fakeclaiming
  2. NM if HA is real both contingent on other.
  3. Black
  4. Robbnva
  5. GB
  Joint 7. HT/Gypyx
  8. T3
  9. Charles
  10. LK
  11. Awesimeming
  12. Roden

I am the most obv town in the game

To who?

should be obvious to everyone, clearly you don't agree but you have lied about me on at least 2 occasions so you are either scum or really bad town. Town generally shouldn't intentionally lie. There are exceptions but this isn't one of them

State them right now.

[RationalMadman]

Robb calling me a liar, pushing on awesomeming instead of me, that's shady as fuck.

[RationalMadman]

Something feels wrong about how suddenly this switch has happened. Regardless I'll stick to it as it helps solve later for me and others. GB will always be in my scumpool for however long were both alive in the game.

If this is wrong, I still believe Awesomeming is Town.

It's literally what you wanted. Why complain?
[/quote
I wanted a fast NoElim and will advocate that, annoying or not, every DP1 of a 13 person normal game I am in as that's just straight up optimal.

I want Black or Robb over GB. Black Vs Robb has 1 scum in it, I am telling you.

[RationalMadman]

Awesomeming never posts a lot especially not on DP1s.

Metadive him a bit and stick to ISOs.

When he is Scum he tunnels and aggravates others more. When he is Town he does things like suddenly voting HA there and disengaging if it goes wrong and just not caring.

He never tryhards ever. Show me I am wrong.

This is not a good reason to townread ming

It is.

[RationalMadman]

This was me typing, seeming like a quote:

I wanted a fast NoElim and will advocate that, annoying or not, every DP1 of a 13 person normal game I am in as that's just straight up optimal.

I want Black or Robb over GB. Black Vs Robb has 1 scum in it, I am telling you.