TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: DkKoba

For having so many alts.

[ItalianoVD]

Sleep will be happening soon so, I'll see y'all late this afternoon.

[ItalianoVD]

50 people butting heads probably and posting 13073489 times and im going to be -_- about it when we hit page 300

I agree with Ydrasse here. Can't say I'm looking forward to 1000+ pages on day 1, but I guess I'm here for it.

I like the pressure on Koba right now, so I'm gonna stay here for now.

I like Shirou's entrance although it seemed forced and extra, but I like forced and extra.

DGB hasn't said much, which is interesting for her, same with Mastina.

Don't think I've played with the others before, but I have time to get a read on them. Should be fun.

There, that's my thoughts for now. I feel like I can't leave because I don't want to come back to 20 extra pages, so I'll keep it open, although I'm busy.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh yeah, I've played with Mala before. She'll be hard for me to read as usual.

[ItalianoVD]

Glad I’m chopped liver VD.

You're not chopped liver my sweet kitten, but give me something more to work with this game and you won't feel left out.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm not sure 100% sure if it was Sun Tzu that said it though.

Maybe it was Einstein or Tesla.

It was my shop teacher.

[ItalianoVD]

So Shirou, according to your profile, I should take your scumhunting with a grain of salt? Yes? We can suck at hunting scum together, but I'll let you take the credit if we fail no worries.

[ItalianoVD]

Hi I am a mason.

Are you now?

[ItalianoVD]

Would you like to elaborate?

[ItalianoVD]

Would you like to elaborate?

@Mastina

[ItalianoVD]

DGB hasn't said much, which is interesting for her, same with Mastina.

Please elaborate on what this is trying to imply?

I've played games where both DGB and Mastina have said more earlier rather than later. Mastina is coming in now, but DGB's presence is more known by now.

[ItalianoVD]

+1 Mastina

[ItalianoVD]

Mm, I get that. I'm more so asking about
1) why were you saying this, like, so close to the start of the game where a lot of people just haven't checked in yet and

Last post I posted post #12, when I came back there were like 3 more pages so I quickly read the pages and decided to do a quick catchup, mainly for myself, but also for anyone else who may have been curious about my thoughts.

2) when you say it's interesting, what does that mean? Like, are you implying it's alignment indicative?

No, not necessarily alignment indicative, just that I haven't seen it from DGB before.

[ItalianoVD]

To clarify, I've seen DGB play as both alignments and haven't seen this early quietness before. Perhaps I should have played more games, but that's how it's been from my experience.

[ItalianoVD]

So Shirou, according to your profile, I should take your scumhunting with a grain of salt? Yes?

Hmm, I like to think of myself as a bit better than some sees me as, and worse than some others do. depends on the games the person has played with me I guess?

The hero roleplay thing was kinda a meta pun about the fact I often try to "play hero" and do/lead everything myself

so I can link you games where I had pretty good reads and lead on scum for a town victory, and games where as a townie I was the single biggest detriment to a town win, and also some games where I was a mix of the two depending on what stage of the game we were in

I like to think that both my biggest strength and weakness are my stubbornness

When I get stubborn about scum that's cool and all, I keep tunneling them and warping the game until they die unless I'm not motivated enough for some reason, but when I get stubborn about a townie I guess you better be ready for an absolute shitshow and everyone facepalming me in post-game

We can suck at hunting scum together,

but I'll let you take the credit if we fail no worries.

Hey! I'm the token shady person here!

But offer accepted

I like you, we play very similar. Luckily though when I am terribly wrong town, I either die or someone else is able to solve the game so I'm not leading the town to imminent death. Lol, I gotta have a scapegoat.

[ItalianoVD]

It's not that I don't understand what you're saying, I just wanted to see if there was more to what you were saying than what was on the surface. I think it looks, like, a very nothing and filler thing to say, and so far I think that could apply to all the rest of your posting too, especially the "I like the pressure on koba" thing

VOTE: Italiano

Fair enough.

[ItalianoVD]

I think it makes perfect sense for dgb to be absent considering, well, the retirement from mafia for the most part.

For you.

[ItalianoVD]

+1 Mastina

bc she said you're town?

No for other reasons.

[ItalianoVD]

spill the beans italiano

Why would I waste beans like that?

[ItalianoVD]

I don't think DGB not posting means anything yet. It's possible she hasn't been around yet to know the game started.*but* I have played with her probably more than most people here, so I feel confident that whatever her entrance is, she's somebody I can actually *read* and not just vibesfeel.

I'm happy you're here then, look forward to see how the game progresses.

[ItalianoVD]

aside from perhaps italiano's "DGB has been really quiet"

Hey don't judge me.

[ItalianoVD]

I always have a tendency to townread mala especially with 143. I think I've been right like once in three times or something like that.

[ItalianoVD]

Or maybe it was twice in three times. Eh whatever, you're a blind spot for me kitty cat.

[ItalianoVD]

I always have a tendency to townread mala especially with 143. I think I've been right like once in three times or something like that.

I have a tendency to scumread Mala but I townread them here. I don't know what this means!

It means I'm townreading her, but I've been wrong. Why was that so hard to understand?

[ItalianoVD]

oh I was referring to myself, not you. As in, I am mildly concerned that I usually scumread Mala regardless of alignment and that I'm townreading them here, but I'm going to go with thinking they're probably town.

Gotcha. Apologies, I thought you were saying you didn't know what was meant by what I was saying.

[ItalianoVD]

To be clear, I meant out of the people in the playerlist that I've played with, I've played more games with DGB. Not that I've played more games with DGB than other players have. But thanks <3

Cool, thanks for clarifying that and yes still happy to have you here.

[ItalianoVD]

i have bigger concerns like carrying this game

Let's hope you're on your game then, so we won't have to take over.

[ItalianoVD]

Anyway, I tried to keep up as long as I could, but I'm out. See you peeps when I see you.

[ItalianoVD]

Ugghh, gotta catch up. Give me a minute.

[ItalianoVD]

Just for the record a couple of my teammates (Drixx, Cerebrus) are a little iffy on Mastina for reasons. My paranoia has been getting the best of me and while I initially townlean her, I'm constantly rethinking and reevaluating that read.

Also, I'm suspicious of Ausuka at the moment. I'll say why in a minute, but I'm still catching up.

[ItalianoVD]

Arkos 201 is scummy btw.

I’m down to yeet him as well.

Don't really see what was so scummy about 201

I think it's more the teammates in the back of the head that gave me this but there is just something that I don't like at all about mastina. The posts from them are giving me major confusion and a scum-vibe, and plus my teammates are in general consensus that somethin is god damn wrong about it, and even after a short read that I'm redoing I'm agreeing with my teammates.

Have you had a chance to zero in on your thoughts and get a better read on Mastina?

201 is basically a saying of- I failed basic reading today, but I generally have found a few I'm not liking too well- And at the end basically say I agreed with mala.

Also one random thing to add- What's so towny about italiano anyways. It feels painfully null to me.

Hmm... General thought bowl go (In no order of importance or even alignment lean)
Xof feeling slightly town
Ydrasse feeling slightly town
Mala feeling town
Ausuka feeling null-town

Italiano feeling null- Also mastina interactions feel slightly weird. I'm feeling at least one scum out of it, actually- if you added one other weird person I'd probably say 100% one scum between it but only 2 people makes me pretty sure that I can't tack 100% on that- Because I wouldn't believe that and if I did that would be stupid.

Shirou feeling null-town
Aisa feeling null
More to this? probably will expand the thought bowl once the full reread is done.

I'm melding with your reads apart from Ausuka.

Also, the bolded: I can see why it would be weird, so I guess I should say that I am in a neighborhood with Mastina and others and as I said I initially feel/felt that she is town, but for reasons already stated, I'm questioning that read.

I think Deasvail, mastina and DkKoba are town.

Almost

Feeling good about Ydrasse and xofelf.

+1

Shirou is town.

Also +1

[ItalianoVD]

Just a thought

Why is Italian VD voting Koba and not me?

Why are thinking I should I be voting you?

Just a thought

Why is Italian VD voting Koba and not me?

Inactive vs Active suspect dilemma? Welp, he can reply himself I guess

either way, just want to say Ali has said for the fifth time to vote Kowah because she's townleaning most active players

but as I stand here,

I realize,

that I'm gonna bully her again and say no.

Ahhh, don't answer for me.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

This game is too easy.

Oh dang, was it something I said?

You gotta elaborate on this, cause this is just silly.

[ItalianoVD]

Thoughts on Ydra.

Gun to head I would still call her null. Some of her posting feels quite natural. She's doing some scumhunting and while I don't always find her conclusions super solid I can easily see the world where her ISO is her actual thought process at this time.

But there is this one thing that bugs me:
I feel like the (look like I have thoughts) to (thoughts) ratio in her ISO is quite high. Mostly because (look like I have thoughts) is so high. She has a supremely easy to follow ISO at the moment because every little action and implication is made explicit. This is pro-town but perhaps something scum are even more incentivised to do than town?

UNVOTE:

for reference i voted aisa because i thought their opening was a little stilted ie mirror someone's vote on them rather than post something wholly unique and the .1% thing in reference to me felt nervous to take much of a stance. i also thought that their reply to me in 94 wasn't as telling as i wanted but

Oh and I wanna know why mastina thinks I'm town
There are so many questions of that sort I could direct to various people that I'm almost feeling a bit of choice paralysis lol

felt like a towny thing to say, i guess it could be a copout but tonally i believe it

The feeling started when she made this post.

Vote / question someone -> unvote after their reply
Is definitely a pattern I've seen from scum before

i think i agree most with the mala read, it's not an unreasonable one for her to have and she doesnt feel very threatened or like, on edge i guess as if she was pretending to feel that strongly and then being challenged

This is another thing that pinged me. Kinda agree with it, but at the same time am still wary of Mala because her read on mastina rings major "could be a scum tunnel" alarm bells. So Ydra comes across to me like she doesn't have this paranoia I am feeling, which in turn makes me wonder if this is just a sentence, packaged ready for consumption, rather than a read she actually has.

Any thoughts here from anyone who is more familiar with her?

OMG this is soooo easy

VOTE: Aisa

I actually townleaned Aisa's post here. What is it about it that you don't like?

TOWN
DrippingGoofball (Ancient Guard)
Arko (Average TM Enjoyers)
Ausuka (Frog Friends)
DeasVail (Klickin’ Chickens)
DkKoba (Jingle Ballers)
Kowahbunga (Studies Show)
Malakittens (Ghosts of NKs)
Mastina (Shadow Syndicate)
Shirou (Perfectly Balanced)
Xofelf (Crispy Cream Puffs)
Ydrasse (Polymewl)

SCUM
Aisa (Whimsical Activities)
ItalianoVD (We Don’t Mafia)

The other scum might as well confess.

Mmmm. Not sure if you're serious?

[ItalianoVD]

italiano scummy based on their complaints about activity being the first serious thing they said about the game (later agrees with my vote there)

That's scummy??

[ItalianoVD]

I've read up and I'm gonna say a lot of people are hanging too much on my thoughts about DGB imo. Koba said it was shade, which it wasn't, simply my inner thoughts at the time I posted it. I also don't like how Ausuka asked me about my thoughts and when I answer, seemingly not good enough for them, they vote me, which is meh?

To anyone: other than the thoughts I had on DGB, which seems to be what everyone is jumping on atm, what else has caused you to think I'm scummy?

[ItalianoVD]

I like 340 from Kowah in response to Koba's 321. Feels like a town response to the usual arrogant Koba post.

[ItalianoVD]

I also don't like how Ausuka asked me about my thoughts and when I answer, seemingly not good enough for them, they vote me, which is meh?

Is the implication here that if you ask about anything, you have to townread the answer?

No, not at all, but it felt like busy work with not a real attempt to actually sort me. I also didn't like how you voted Koba because of Shirou, unvoted because of 'Datisi' and then revoted because of Koba. Were you actually scumreading Koba and if so why?

[ItalianoVD]

What do you think town would have done differently there?

No I wasn't actually scumreading Koba

Town does a lot of different things, so who knows, but I would've taken it in stride and kept an eye on them. My point is why ask a question if your vote is a forgone conclusion. To clarify, I'm not saying your vote was, but that's how I perceived it. You asked, I answered, my answers weren't good enough for you, vote.

[ItalianoVD]

She claims to have a day/night difference in her town/scum play but honestly I find her a hard read

its pretty easy for me

and she still doesnt know what the difference it ;D

lets just say i tend to prefer to ignore mastina in games

and i rarely have a good confident read on her regardless

It's not about being "scatterbrained", you've done a 180º on how you theoretically view mastina as a slot you need to sort and it's puzzling? maybe you were just being cheeky in the first quote but it's hard for me to sympathize with this progression because I view it like as if walked back on how well I can read Norwee and that would never happen because...it's true?

To be fair, Koba does the 180 thing like all the time and I've come to realize that it's not ai, but I'm with you on the concept, if that makes sense.

[ItalianoVD]

(*Meuh PSTD flashbacks*)

Meuh pockets everybody.

[ItalianoVD]

No I wasn't actually scumreading Koba

Okay, fair enough. Why was it unfortunate that Datisi thought Koba was town and that you had to go elsewhere? What are your thoughts on Koba now?

[ItalianoVD]

What do you think town would have done differently there?

No I wasn't actually scumreading Koba

Town does a lot of different things, so who knows, but I would've taken it in stride and kept an eye on them. My point is why ask a question if your vote is a forgone conclusion. To clarify, I'm not saying your vote was, but that's how I perceived it. You asked, I answered, my answers weren't good enough for you, vote.

Ok, so what about that suggests it was a foregone conclusion? Isn't that just contradictory to the idea that your answers weren't good enough?

My perception.

[ItalianoVD]

Ok well my perception is that you're full of shit

[ItalianoVD]

the words italiano types wash over my brain in a not pleasant way - meaning i am having trouble parse them due to how fluffed up the sentences are(they lack a concrete point)

So are you gonna actually try to sort me or what? You've played with me and you know how I post and how it's always 'suspicious'.

looks like italiano is sniffing out if im a viable wagon tho

Nope, not at all, I've actually been townreading you for a while now.

[ItalianoVD]

iirc last night pb said that 375 was bad enough that it should be buried now

Explain. In your own words.

Hey Koba I feel like you ask a fair bit of me but when I try to get an idea of where your thoughts are at, I either get a dismissive response or none at all. It feels as if you’re putting on a show for certain slots that you’re relying on townreads from, while ignoring others.

Welcome to the Koba show.

It was intentional - I don't think going back and forth on it is going to be productive. I don't think if you are town there is anything I could ask that would make what you were saying more believable to me at this point. I'd rather just take it into account and see what you do going forward.

Fair. Same for you.

VOTE: italiano pb saw something and now I want to kill this bc I think it's like 99% flipping scum

Last time I checked Koba was playing this game not pink ball.



But since we're talking teammates, Drixx and Cerb told me DGB is useless and should be scumread for existing, and if she is removed from the game and is town there will be no material loss.

[ItalianoVD]

Frankly I'm not really feeling this game and have been trying to have fun and trying to connect with this playerlist, but it's just not happening. When everything you post is scumread without any semblance of actual sorting it gets old fast.

There's always this undertone that doesn't match the words in most of the posts, and it is driving me batshit

Don't really know what to say about it. Example(s)?

[ItalianoVD]

But since we're talking teammates, Drixx and Cerb told me DGB is useless and should be scumread for existing, and if she is removed from the game and is town there will be no material loss.

What disgusting, nasty, uncalled for comments.

What do you think you'll accomplish by spreading this toxic negativity?

Whatever. You're wrong and you acting as if you've solved the game is goofy.

[ItalianoVD]

And while I'm not as adamant as my teammates about DGB, I know with a 100% fact that she is wrong about me.

[ItalianoVD]

Koba as well, but Koba is always wrong about me. I don't think they've read me right yet.

[ItalianoVD]

And while I'm not as adamant as my teammates about DGB, I know with a 100% fact that she is wrong about me.

I also think you're wrong about Aisa as well.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry if this seems incohesive, but I wanna say this now because I probably won't be back until later.

Scum so many times don't have to coordinate anything and they'll just allow the town to implode on itself. I don't believe scum is in the forefront in this game right, but I also don't think they haven't done nothing. In my head the ones who stand out to me in this game, fmpov at least, are Koba, Mastina, Shirou, and Ydrasse. I don't really feel any of them are scum. If I had to guess where the scum are, I'd say it's more in the field of DGB, Arko, xofelf, and Ausuka.

We need cohesion to win and if I have been the culprit fighting against that, then here is my apology and attempt to right the ship if it can be righted. Also, please don't read into this change of a tone as a scum tactic.

I really wouldn't care as scum and I genuinely want to win and to be able to help this town win, but if any uncomfortable, uneasy, or outright rude feelings/interactions any of you have felt from me I am truly sorry, especially you DGB. There was no need for my post.

[ItalianoVD]

Frankly I'm not really feeling this game and have been trying to have fun and trying to connect with this playerlist, but it's just not happening. When everything you post is scumread without any semblance of actual sorting it gets old fast.

There's always this undertone that doesn't match the words in most of the posts, and it is driving me batshit

Don't really know what to say about it. Example(s)?

I've got plans tonight, but yeah, I'll dig through your iso again when i can and give you which posts bugged me the most. Sorry you're not having much fun anything in particular that could help with that aside from the obvious being scumread sucks and is a moodkiller?

Yeah don't worry about me lol. I tend to get in my feelings when I'm wrongly scumread. It really sucks when it's from people that haven't played with you and actually know your scumgame or scumrange. Oh and especially when it's something weak like "he said interesting about DGB's activity"

[ItalianoVD]

Seems a good page to just place a general reminder of rule #4:

Be respectful of other players; do not insult them. Attack the argument, not the person.

[ItalianoVD]

It really sucks when it's from people that haven't played with you and actually know your scumgame or scumrange.

I think you accidentally a word here. Is it more sucky from people who *have* played with you, or haven't and don't know your scum vibes? Which, I would be curious for an example so I can compare.

Yeah it's supposed to say... "It really sucks when it's from people that haven't played with you and

don't

actually know your scumgame or scumrange."

So yeah, I get more frustrated with people I

haven't

played with because they don't know my towntells and I don't know what to say that will get people to understand I'm genuine and not trying to manipulate anything. People I play with will suspect me, but then will see me do something or say something that makes them feel better about me. I don't have that here, even Koba never truly sorts me in any of the games we play. They seem to always place me in a null to scum category no matter what, so whenever I'm playing with them I know it'll be a matter of time that they'll see me as the compromise vote.

Also my posts can seem fluffy, especially early on and that's because I'm generally wanting to have a good time and just let loose with my posts and that's why I was throwing out different lighthearted/non-substantive comments to people in this game hoping they would play along and bring that fun feel to the atmosphere. But it was more or less like...

[ItalianoVD]

i do wonder why italiano has yet to move their vote to a wagon of someone they *claim* to think could be scum rather than sticking on someone they supposedly townread, it cant be to keep that wagon alive, could it?

I have my reasons. Worry more about my read than my vote as of right now.

[ItalianoVD]

I think Mala’s list is bang on

Everything okay Mala?

[ItalianoVD]

I don't scumread Italiano but I'm not gonna say he's town either

Come on Shirou, come to the dark side and townread me.

[ItalianoVD]

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Ausuka

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, now what are

your

thoughts on everyone Koba? You've been saying a lot of what your teammates think.

[ItalianoVD]

i have included my own thoughts within the posts where i share my teammates thoughts? we have had discussions in our team chat.

there you go again trying to shade my slot without making an actual move towards it

You literally think everything is shade.



I didn't notice it, but gimme a minute to take another look.

[ItalianoVD]

Alright so I'm given my readslist. Obviously subject to change, but this is where my head is currently.

Aisa
Malakittens
Shirou
Ydrasse
DkKoba

Mastina
DeasVail

Kowahbunga

Xofelf

Arko

DrippingGoofball

Ausuka

green

- strong townlean

blue

- medium townlean

yellow

- weak townlean

white

- null

orange

- weak scumlean

pink

- medium scumlean

red

- strong scumlean

[ItalianoVD]

I didn't notice it, but gimme a minute to take another look.

My bad, I do see that you have townreads on Shirou and Aisa, unless that has changed. You of course have scumleans on myself, Ydrasse, and Mala, unless of course the latter two have changed. That was where I think you landed upon my reread.

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano: he had the most to say about this but overall he went in depth and saw that the slot is just saying things and not really doing anything.

As opposed to what? Like what is everyone doing in the game that is drastically different from what I'm 'not doing' that it warrants me being your team's top scum and day 1 elimination?

[ItalianoVD]

Man, I’ve missed a lot. I am very sorry, work has been extremely hectic and when I get home I’m dead tired. Thankfully my weekend is free so I can catch up and interact more.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay I'm catching up by page.

PAGE 24...

One of my teammates has also expressed getting weird vibes from Italiano. I've not seen anything to make them stand out either way to me yet.

Anything new on this front?

I have this slight scum read forming on Shirou right now. I believe from my experience (1 game) that Shirou seems like a very hyper-analytical player. But this post:

You think 1 game is enough to make a fair assessment?

I am comfortably putting xof in town pile. All of you should too.

Uhh...

My thought was that, if town thinks someone is scum, but most other people think that person is town, then the person suspecting them would be affected by that in some way, because the ultimate goal is to actually eliminate scum

Those people could be wrong or could be scum.

I have this slight scum read forming on Shirou right now. I believe from my experience (1 game) that Shirou seems like a very hyper-analytical player. But this post:

ok wait a second i'm gonna flip a coin to see if i buy this explanation

Strikes me as very odd coming from them. I won't disagree it's a tiny thing. But it feels out of character imo. Can we grab some comments about this from everyone if they feel the same or don't?

That just reads like a joke to me

I concur. It's what I got from it.

Why do you think Ausuka is scum, and why is xofelf a scumlean?

I think Ausuka is scum because of her interaction with me. As I said when we were talking, I think her conclusion of scumreading me and voting me was preconceived and I think the questioning was for show, to make her look like she was trying to solve. Then when I said my perception was the reason I felt the way I did, she disregarded that as if it didn't matter. Scum unreasonableness.

Also her early RVS play was kinda sus, in which I called out in 358 and 368.

Xofelf is mainly gut that's why he's a weak scumlean. Reason being I feel like he is in the background looking at everything happen, but not really getting involved unless it's something he feels he needs to get involved in. Kinda like a referee. I've seen scum play like him, but to be honest after reading his ISO again, I didn't really feel like I initially felt, so lol I guess I gotta push him up a bit. Is there like a weak weak or very very weak scumlean color to use.

I'm curious why you're concerned about only those two? You agree with everyone else on my list?

VOTE: arko
im running out of people i’m okay with killing today

What are your thoughts on my readslist. Agreements, disagreements, comments?

596 - Can I ask who has said what about me. Asking for a friend.

Also, the AtE didn't work for me. It did hit all the places that would make me feel guilty or bad for unfairly treating somebody and changing my stance because of those feelings. It read as intentionally trying to get those reactions with the word choices, as well as the tone.

Although it was technically AtE, it really wasn't my intention to pull heart strings or the like I was simply and genuinely trying to get people who didn't/don't know me to get an idea of how I play.

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 25...

its me being already set on who i want to eliminate while utilizing wagons as pressure since even if someone thinks a wagon wont go through the psychological pressure still exists

And yet you had a

big

problem with me voting you while townreading you. Psychological pressure eh?

I was looking at 610 and decided to do a quick ISO of DV and got sidetracked from my catchup so I'm gonna have to do that later cause I feel like I'm gonna end up switching DeasVail with Xofelf in my readslist.

Anyway, to me Aisa has a sweetness to her and her posts that if she's scum I'll be very sad. Just look at her sweet little ISO. It's like this little guy.

I'd also be interested if you could like, elaborate on your thoughts about Italiano and my post about him? Or at least like start taking a look at him,

since I think he's been a pretty major point of focus so far

Which I feel has been scum motivated.

VOTE: fuck yes a shiro is wagon

Mala can you elaborate on your thoughts on Shirou

You said something along the lines of his push on you being anti-town but I don't think you ever indicated he was likely to be scum so this comes off as strange to me

I get the same feeling here that I got when Ausuka questioned me. Like just questioning to question. Now I haven't gotten to a response and follow up yet if there is one, but I get the same feeling.

I don't have enough confidence on Mala at the moment to warp the game about my read on her and risk public humiliation if wrong.

To answer someone pages ago who asked why I thought Shirou was town. Tone was/is a main reason why and here is an example of that tone. Scum can of course fake this, but in the context of Shirou in this game, I would lean more on the side of town based on tone. Don't mess this up Shirou.

By this I mean that he hasn't really put out much analysis or pushed someone very strongly

I don't tend to push strong when I'm not familiar with the playerlist or if I don't have a strong meta-ish read on players I know.

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 26...

I think kowah has not done a massive amount but his content to post ratio is kind of fine. He doesn't really have the same vibes as italiano does where he has a lot of posts and like none of them actually look like genuine sorting and trying to kill mafia.

What is this nothingness? I try not to do Day 1 associatives, but this sounds like Kowah could potentially be your partner.

I don't really have to comment on Shirou v Koba since currently I think it's t/t.

================================================

PAGE 27...


Eh, 650 is a tough read. Are there conclusions that you've come to based on this?

I feel like Shirou towntells here...

I was holding back how towny I was after the initial pages because I wanted to play TM more rather than risk being NK'd for being too obvtown, however scrap that, LET'S GO for the usual War Arc Innocent Child route

Nothing of value would be lost in that scenario anyway

Shirou has now become green on my readslist. Sorry if that's not enough for you guys, but it is for me.

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 28...

FB said the best way for dealing with Koba is ignoring him.

This is true, but like you said you don't want to 100% ignore because if scum, they'll laugh all the way to a win. I've been scum with Koba before so I know it all too well.

Disclaimer: I've had about on average 3-4 hours of sleep the past 3 days, so I'm not confident this isn't incoherent. I'll try to clarify where I can if need be.

So I did go back through to see if I could find the things that were bugging me, and it seems they bother me somehow less in iso than they did when i was reading them in real time. Some it was just one post was a harsh brand of sarcasm followed up by a cheery nice post within like minutes of each other. But these were two that stuck out in particular ways:

Just a thought

Why is Italian VD voting Koba and not me?

Why are thinking I should I be voting you?

Just a thought

Why is Italian VD voting Koba and not me?

Inactive vs Active suspect dilemma? Welp, he can reply himself I guess

either way, just want to say Ali has said for the fifth time to vote Kowah because she's townleaning most active players

but as I stand here,

I realize,

that I'm gonna bully her again and say no.

Ahhh, don't answer for me.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

This game is too easy.

Oh dang, was it something I said?

You gotta elaborate on this, cause this is just silly.

This one does the normal tone to something harsher than I'm expecting in response, and it ends really dismissively.

Don't like how this is being framed. Harsher? You think "Ahhh, don't answer for me. " is harsh? Seriously. And what am I supposed to think about a naked vote and a "this game is too easy"? That it's perfectly normal or that it's silly?

iirc last night pb said that 375 was bad enough that it should be buried now

Explain. In your own words.

Hey Koba I feel like you ask a fair bit of me but when I try to get an idea of where your thoughts are at, I either get a dismissive response or none at all. It feels as if you’re putting on a show for certain slots that you’re relying on townreads from, while ignoring others.

Welcome to the Koba show.

It was intentional - I don't think going back and forth on it is going to be productive. I don't think if you are town there is anything I could ask that would make what you were saying more believable to me at this point. I'd rather just take it into account and see what you do going forward.

Fair. Same for you.

VOTE: italiano pb saw something and now I want to kill this bc I think it's like 99% flipping scum

Last time I checked Koba was playing this game not pink ball.



But since we're talking teammates, Drixx and Cerb told me DGB is useless and should be scumread for existing, and if she is removed from the game and is town there will be no material loss.

Then this one just has this tone of condescension throughout that I don't particularly love. Like, this is

Team

Mafia, why wouldn't you be relying on your team to back you?? That's the whole point???? And it's not like Koba isn't giving their own thoughts and reads and solely playing as a translator for their teams thoughts and reads. Koba is an acquired taste, and none of that flavour is missing in what they post so I don't get why the undertone to this post is so strong.

I've played against Koba and most of their alts and I match Koba's condescension and arrogance with some of my own. They're big, they can handle it. But to the point, no Koba was not really give their own thoughts it was always "well my team thinks this and my team feels that, not just on me, but on everyone with only a tiny dash of Koba 180, so no. This is poor framing again.

Also, the AtE didn't work for me. It did hit all the places that would make me feel guilty or bad for unfairly treating somebody and changing my stance because of those feelings. It read as intentionally trying to get those reactions with the word choices, as well as the tone.

While I think I misread some of the tones in things, I still don't feel great about you. I just feel like I'm missing *something* from you, but I'm not quite sure what it is. Maybe it's like the kind of dialogue between players where there's a genuine attempt to make sure both are on the same page in the same way. Maybe I'm just sleep-deprived, but idk your iso seems to have thoughts and opinions that you want other people to have, not like "hey, i'm seeing this, anybody wanna check that and make sure we've got the same idea about this?". It's that mutual cooperation and information exchanging and co-analysis I'm missing I think.

What is it with all this vague "Something's missing nonsense everyone is spouting out? Maybe you are just scum.

For what it's worth I do think "hyping" themselves up is something that even town!Koba would do

I think it's something especially town!Koba would do.

I really have nothing to say to 695 and 696. I feel dumb for townreading Koba after those posts, but eh, I'm still gonna do it, until it doesn't make sense to.

Is whatever the fuck italiano doing towny to you? Does it make him paired with me?

I'm about to blow everything up if someone else says I'm not doing anything. Who's projecting Koba? I've done more than you this game and I haven't even been as active as I want to be. I don't care what you or anybody else says. Fact is, I've done more than all of you who are "scumreading" me right now. All of you can kick rocks.

I don't think you're scummy, you're just obnoxious

699 makes me want to the do the ISO now, but I gotta stay on track.

[ItalianoVD]

It's they, thanks.

Oh, sorry about that.

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 29...

[Shirou / ydra / italiano]
or [xof / Shirou/ italiano] is where I'm at essentially poe wise

You can't be this wrong. I refuse to believe that you're this wrong.

And in the latter I also assume italiano is scum with you as you also are ignoring their play and are trying to either claim they've been towny or that I'm somehow paired with them. Both ridiculous theories.

I don't think you really wanna see who can get who eliminated between the two of us.

That's all I gotta say for this page.

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 30...

VOTE: italiano I have gotten all I need for now

Ready to end day

> The push on me doesn't work
> People talk about sussing italiano
> Instant pivot back to italiano

Very towny ISO. The Amazon Forest has nothing on the amount of green I see here.

You are so delusional and are bad at paying attention to the game you're in

Wow. That's the scummiest response to something I've ever seen you post. Please for my own ego be town.

Bro, did Shirou just beat my townlean into a scumlean?

737 feels like a white flag.

Don't know if anyone noticed, but in 496 I mentioned that Koba doesn't sort me, well I was being emotional. Koba sorts me in their own way and has been reasonable enough to townread me after I've shown at least enough towniness in their mind to do so.

I feel a sense of unreasonableness from Koba, I've felt it for a while, almost like nothing I say or do can even think of shaking their read of me. I don't know, maybe this is what Koba tunnelling feels like (I haven't been on the receiving end of this one), but all in all, I feel the unreasonableness is extremely scummy.

742 loses more oomph.

I don't know, things are flipping a bit for me regarding Koba. I've never played with Shirou, but the arguments here are compelling and I can't say too much against them. It'd be crazy if y'all was both scum playing us all. You better not be!

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 31...

Votecount 1.12

DkKoba (3):

mastina, Shirou, Kowahbunga

ItalianoVD (3):

Ausuka, DeasVail, DkKoba

Shirou (1):

Malakittens

Arko (1):

DrippingGoofball

DeasVail (1):

xofelf

Ausuka (1):

ItalianoVD


Not Voting (3): Arko, Aisa, Ydrasse

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-26 08:34:25)

Lol, this VC doesn't help Koba's case for me. People I townread or have a decent feeling about are voting Koba. Those I've had had questions about or are starting to have questions about are all voting me. You can't make this stuff up.

Okay 751 is a nice answer because it's what I felt from Xofelf myself.

Best I can do is focus on one person at a time to at least see if anything sticks out in a need to yeet immediately type of way.

With your lack of time and or energy (you said so yourself), going one by one seems very time consuming and something I don't feel like you would actually do.

Xoffy, you said Italiano looks like scum to you. Why are you so hesitant to vote for him?

Can someone please look at this slot and tell me why it doesn't have more pressure on it?

Oh, it's not hesitant to place a vote on him as much as I was hoping to hear back from him, and *then* I would vote there or if response was good enough and I re-evaluate, find a vote someplace else, possibly Arko. I'm not really a vote hopper, I vote when that's the person I want to yeet outside of RVS, and don't vote too often. I just want a little more beforehand, that's all.

This is reasonable, which can still be faked by scum, but I appreciate it.

You!

VOTE: Ausuka

760 761 & 762 brings a tear to my eye

https://media.giphy.com/media/TirjunBNb ... /giphy.gif

And yeah, the fact is I could be wrong on Ausuka, but I hope not and I don't think so.

Yeah I think your take is horseshit

Just like my perception?

Like half the game is either doing nothing for the past few days or spent it on a vote for arko because he didn't post anything and I'm the one not solving when I actually have a push I want to make and a case for it which you have just been incredibly dismissive about

What's your case again?

And I mean maybe you'll come up with a response that will blow my mind but I'm like 99% sure the "poor little italiano struggling to understand ausuka" thing is just pure made up nonsense

Nice misrepresentation and more dismissal.

Literally I ask him why he believes what he says about me and he just says "oh it's my perception that's the case"

No. You asked me about DGB and why I said what I said about her. Then I answered. Then you voted. THEN the talk about perception happened, where I said I perceived that your vote on me was a forgone conclusion given the weak question you asked me and lack of care/understanding or even more clarification issued upon my answer.

And like literally what is your problem with asking to clarify about something I'm suspicious of? Obviously a lot of the time it is not going to have a satisfying answer but like I don't instinctively know and understand all context and intention of the post

I literally told you in 92 and 101. That's a you problem for trying to read into what was posted something that wasn't in fact there and form your opinion based on that.

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 32...

italiano just says i was always going to vote him, refuses to elaborate when i ask, sorts people in broad strokes by their activity level and then dips and that isn't even worth mentioning or talking about

Way to misrepresent once again what actually is going on.

For others:

My readslists are never based on activity. I couldn't careless if you have 300 posts or 3. I tonally read posts as I said and surmise if said post(s) would more than likely come from scum or town. I of course add in the context of interactions, knowability, meta, etc. It's of course not fullproof, nothing is, but I've gotten pretty great results because of it. I can't disagree about me dipping, but the readslist was BECAUSE I didn't have the time to post, so I wanted to leave the town with something, not because of an agenda.

That's just nitpicking. It's obvious what the idea of "not solving" implies and I think I've easily solved more than most slots in the game. I'm trying to actually push someone, which you have totally ignored all this time, while half of the game is just not voting.

Why do you think that is really? You think everyone is my scum partner?

[ItalianoVD]

Oh nice, so I'm actually all caught up. I'll do a readslist update tomorrow, but I'm tired from all the catching up and it's crazy late right now. Like I said I have much freer weekendthis week so I'll be able to be a bit more active for at least the next couple of days. Ciao.

[ItalianoVD]

No. You asked me about DGB and why I said what I said about her. Then I answered. Then you voted. THEN the talk about perception happened, where I said I perceived that your vote on me was a forgone conclusion given the weak question you asked me and lack of care/understanding or even more clarification issued upon my answer.

Please quote to me where you say this because I am pretty sure you totally refused to elaborate on the accusation when I asked

Spoiler:

What do you think town would have done differently there?

No I wasn't actually scumreading Koba

Town does a lot of different things, so who knows, but I would've taken it in stride and kept an eye on them. My point is why ask a question if your vote is a forgone conclusion. To clarify, I'm not saying your vote was, but that's how I perceived it. You asked, I answered, my answers weren't good enough for you, vote.

Ok, so what about that suggests it was a foregone conclusion? Isn't that just contradictory to the idea that your answers weren't good enough?

My perception.

Also the question to Mala kind of was a question just to question because she totally dropped off the face of the earth alongside several people and I wanted to ping her and give her something to respond to

I think I did the same thing with arko

This is why I feel your dishonest, because you want the fairness of the benefit of the doubt, but refuse(d) to give it to me. You literally said you scumread me because I wasn't doing much or just doing stuff but not having substance. This is anti-town at best and straight up scum at worse.

Why do you think that is really? You think everyone is my scum partner?

No? People can do nothing and be town

Apparently according to you people can do nothing and be scum. So why were you not giving me this same sense of fairness you seem to want to have for yourself and others? This is what I felt about you then and your responses now are proving to me that I was right to feel the way I did.

I think Ausuka is scum because of her interaction with me. As I said when we were talking, I think her conclusion of scumreading me and voting me was preconceived and I think the questioning was for show, to make her look like she was trying to solve. Then when I said my perception was the reason I felt the way I did, she disregarded that as if it didn't matter. Scum unreasonableness.

Also her early RVS play was kinda sus, in which I called out in 358 and 368.

Xofelf is mainly gut that's why he's a weak scumlean. Reason being I feel like he is in the background looking at everything happen, but not really getting involved unless it's something he feels he needs to get involved in. Kinda like a referee. I've seen scum play like him, but to be honest after reading his ISO again, I didn't really feel like I initially felt, so lol I guess I gotta push him up a bit. Is there like a weak weak or very very weak scumlean color to use.

I'm curious why you're concerned about only those two? You agree with everyone else on my list?

Ausuka was your top scumread

but iirc you hadn't posted much in the way of reasoning for it

, and xofelf is someone who I strongly read as town so I was especially interested in why someone would scumread them.

You're right. At the time I wanted to get out my readslist so the town could have it, given the fact I knew my time was gonna be very limited to non-existent. The list however, was a very basic and barebone list, I just didn't have the time to really engage and fully breakdown why I felt the way I did. But now you have your answer as to why.

I don't really get your reflex question to me though. I don't think I would routinely ask about every read I don't agree with? Plus my reads are (mostly) evident from my posting.

You only had a problem with those two because you townread them which is fair, but from looking at your list below, we didn't/don't really differ in townreads and seeing how low DGB and Arko is neither did we differ that much on scumleans, so I guess instead of asking about why those, my real question is why do you scumread me? What is your case and why is it that you are so adamant about it and seemingly so confident (tunnelly) about it?

[ItalianoVD]

Updated readslist as promised. This is the more extensive and normal version of my readslist. Again subject to change. I could probably be wrong on the townleans and scumleans and should flip some slots, but for right now, I'm comfortable being here.

Shirou

- Shirou has a tie for top townread with Aisa. Sorry Shirou you're gonna have to share the spot for now. As I said I tone read posts and Shirou's posting has had a tone that only the very skilled and aware scum can truly fake. I haven't played with Shirou so don't know if this could be his scumrange. All in all he is green for me.

Aisa

- From her first post to her last I've gotten nothing but good feels from Aisa. She even scumreads people in an adorable way. I don't think I've ever played with her, but I'm very happy that potentially my last game on site has her in it. As I said if she is scum I'm gonna be very sad.

Malakittens

- I normally townread Mala, so she definitely is a blind spot for me if she ever is scum, but based on her posts and interactions, I do actually feel she is town here.

Ydrasse

- I don't know I just feel Ydrasse is town here, tonality in her posts are what mainly does it for me. I also wanna believe she is for other reasons and hope to see her answer my questions here here.

Mastina

- Mastina gets a weak townlean from me still. Reason she was here in the first place is that I share a neighborhood with her as I said before and I don't generally trust neighborhoods, but the things she has said in it feel genuine, but there is that possibility that she is scum so my paranoia keeps her at yellow.

Xofelf

- I said I was going to switch DV and Xofelf's positioning so for now Xofelf gets my yellow. I initially had a townlean on them and then didn't remember why and then felt that they were being careful and calculating scum, which is why they were lower down in the first place. It could still be the case that they're scum, but I'm willing to see them get more involved and get into more of their thoughts and interactions.

Kowahbunga

- I initially liked Kowah for his interaction with Koba and the subsequent postings around the slot. I had him null before because I just couldn't really pinpoint where his posts were coming from, as in town/scum. I can't say he has done anything to move the needle in either direction so that's why he's still here. I'd also like him to take a stance on me after 486.

DGB

- DGB could be scum or could be town, I honestly don't know right now. Off the dome, I'd say scum, which is why this is very weak. Her and Arko are the weakest of the scumreads for me.

DkKoba

- A combination of how adamant Koba is on scumreading me without any sense of reason or change as well as the interaction with Shirou is why Koba is here. The reason it's weak, however is because in the back of my mind I still can see town!Koba playing like this. I do probably have a blind spot with Koba though, which is why Shirou is such a gift because he made me think about why I just automatically bin Koba as "oh that's just Koba". A very compelling argument indeed which I think others should take a look at inwardly.

Arko

- Here by process of elimination. I find it hard to follow the direction of what Arko is trying to say. I'm pretty sure it's probably his playstyle maybe. It did seem kinda too easy for him to jump on my bandwagon, but again could be playstyle, not sure yet.

DeasVail

- I still gotta deepdive into DV's ISO, but he locked onto me early and hasn't let go. I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt before. I don't believe he could genuinely tunnel this early when their is no true scumcase on me. I believe it's more so scum sticking to a seemingly easy target to lim. Maybe upon looking at the ISO, I can hopefully come to a stronger conclusion.

Ausuka

- Don't think I need to say anything that hasn't already been said. I think everyone knows where I stand with Ausuka and why.

---

green

- strong townlean

blue

- medium townlean

yellow

- weak townlean

white

- null

orange

- weak scumlean

pink

- medium scumlean

red

- strong scumlean

[ItalianoVD]

but from looking at your list below

Sorry this was in response to 887. I was looking at your list as I was typing and it was below the post I had just quoted in my notes.

[ItalianoVD]

I am a bit concerned that none of Ausuka's teammates are really invested into this game, since it feels like an easy sort of game to analyze for some of her teammates but the content from her is good and I'm pretty sure shirou is working backwards via pre-flipping me-

as there if you read a bit closely you can see the difference in how critical shirou is on italiano and on ausuka. a lot more forgiving for things italiano does, because dkkoba is pushing them. a lot more critical of what ausuka does because dkkoba is defending them.

this is why i made the "playing checkers" comment earlier because that is how obvious and telegraphed the real reasoning is, and why I initially pushed on shirou - because I saw this kind of 1 dimensional shallow logic being dressed up which is typically a scum trait.

Mmm, I don't see it like this at all. Fmpov, Shirou's positioning around myself and Ausuka have nothing to do with you, but with myself and Ausuka.

italiano knows i'm a threatening player - and thus it goes to show that it is most plausibly scum motivated to consistently shade my slot and egg on pushes on me while staying clean. And feeling unable to twist into a scumread, until the village jester Shirou decides to give an out to him to let him slowly twist it into a scumread(such convincing arguments shirou gave! as if it wasnt already similar things italiano was already shading me for, right?). This is what is happening. It is a little more obvious from my own POV because I have the knowledge of my own alignment within the equation, but italiano's gameplay has lined up more plausibly with a scum agenda rather than a town solving.

To tell you the truth Koba, I don't actually see you as a threat and I've never seen you as a threat. When I'm town I see you as an annoyance because of your everywhere style of the play coupled with the arrogance of said play and as scum I see you as a commodity; able to keep the confusion in the town that me an my team want to have going. Your over inflated sense of worth is lost on me, especially because overall you have never pegged me right, well never is a bit of an exaggeration so I'd say like 95/5.

[ItalianoVD]

The style of posting does somewhat remind me of Cerberus which I have taken into account as a plausibility thing for this dichotomy.

Cerberus was amused my this.

[ItalianoVD]

To bad I can't post what's in our discord. I'll show you post game.

[ItalianoVD]

you can say it all you want when the proof points to my claim exactly, no one here was born yesterday.

either you are scum treating a scum italiano more reasonably than ausuka to get ausuka mislimmed or my plausible explaination for you being town in this scenario is true.

you can cry foul all you want to make your argument seem stronger but I'm not stupid lmao

Or, you know, I'm town.

[ItalianoVD]

To bad I can't post what's in our discord. I'll show you post game.

and i am pretty certain you are lying about it lmao

Okay.

Like I said, I'll show you post game and you can feel foolish when you actually see it.

[ItalianoVD]

The style of posting does somewhat remind me of Cerberus which I have taken into account as a plausibility thing for this dichotomy.

Cerberus was amused my this.

Also I gotta say, this is kinda your scummiest post so far I think

It's plausible he could reply but at the same time it makes me go "hmmm" for a bit because it was only 40 minutes or so since Koba's post.

Surprised me too really. I posted it in our discord expecting not to hear from him for a few hours, but within a minute or two, I got a response. /shrug. We talked about some other things regarding Koba and their team, so definitely legit.

[ItalianoVD]

No. You asked me about DGB and why I said what I said about her. Then I answered. Then you voted. THEN the talk about perception happened, where I said I perceived that your vote on me was a forgone conclusion given the weak question you asked me and lack of care/understanding or even more clarification issued upon my answer.

Please quote to me where you say this because I am pretty sure you totally refused to elaborate on the accusation when I asked

Spoiler:

What do you think town would have done differently there?

No I wasn't actually scumreading Koba

Town does a lot of different things, so who knows, but I would've taken it in stride and kept an eye on them. My point is why ask a question if your vote is a forgone conclusion. To clarify, I'm not saying your vote was, but that's how I perceived it. You asked, I answered, my answers weren't good enough for you, vote.

Ok, so what about that suggests it was a foregone conclusion? Isn't that just contradictory to the idea that your answers weren't good enough?

My perception.

I'm not sure how you think that this response with 2 words shows that you elaborated. That was a refusal to elaborate and you continued not to talk about your read on me even when you started to vote me.

Refusal is a strong word. I can see if I literally said "I'm done engaging with you', but you asked me "Ok, so what about that suggests it was a forgone conclusion?" I responded with "my perception", meaning I perceived it to be that way in which I later told you why it felt like scum and not like town.

You call it weak, but it's something many other people were suspicious of as well. My crime according to you was to bother asking first to check if I understood the situation?

From what I remember seeing while it was happening live and upon my lookback is that I was suspicious early on for saying what I said about DGB. That's the reason you even engaged with me in the first place and now you're trying to paint this picture that it was other reasons. And no, that is not the crime you are being accused of. Checking to understand the situation is fine in a vacuum. The reaction/response is the crime for me, which I've said multiple times already.

Also the question to Mala kind of was a question just to question because she totally dropped off the face of the earth alongside several people and I wanted to ping her and give her something to respond to

I think I did the same thing with arko

This is why I feel your dishonest, because you want the fairness of the benefit of the doubt, but refuse(d) to give it to me. You literally said you scumread me because I wasn't doing much or just doing stuff but not having substance. This is anti-town at best and straight up scum at worse.

That's not anti-town at all. It's pro-town, actually. Questions aren't some limited resource you have to be frugal with in case they run out.

The issue I had with you isn't that you posted a readslist without reasoning, or sorted people by activity, but it's that stuff like that was most of what you said.

In particular my biggest concern was that, despite voting me and calling your read on me the strongest read you had, even stronger than any townreads (which is highly unusual for day 1) you didn't talk about it much beyond a naked vote and refused to elaborate about the read when asked. I don't think it's wrong to expect that from a town!italiano mindset, pushing me then would have been the greatest priority.

Shows that you didn't read all of my posts to get an idea of where my head was because I very much said and did more than just post a readslist.

I will admit from posts 1-173 I was still trying to get a feel for the game so majority is in fact fluff with maybe a sprinkle or two of actual substance, maybe not depending on who you ask lol.

My first catchup and second catchup and from posts 305 to when I posted my readslist in 576 and then from 867 - 891 is full of game advancing posts, thoughts going on in my head, reads, why I feel the way I do or do what I do, questions to those scumreading my townreads, questions to townreads regarding potential scum, etc. For anyone to say I was doing nothing here is just scum because even if a townie hates me, they eventually have to play to the wincon and admit the truth. If someone wanted to use 1-173 as a case for someone being scum then so be it, do your thing, but these sections outdo/outdid all of what my scumreads were doing/saying at that point. I don't like flexing, I seriously don't, but I feel it's needed here because of the ridiculous notion I haven't been doing anything this game. The evidence shows this to be contrary, because even when I wasn't "doing anything" that was early game and

If you are town you are dead wrong, but if you're scum then everything makes sense.

[ItalianoVD]

Ausuka, say you're town and fypov I am town and let's go with the premise that I have scum on my wagon or in the group of people who are suspicious of me, who do you think is the most likely for it to be?

[ItalianoVD]

Refusal is a strong word. I can see if I literally said "I'm done engaging with you', but you asked me "Ok, so what about that suggests it was a forgone conclusion?" I responded with "my perception", meaning I perceived it to be that way in which I later told you why it felt like scum and not like town.

I still really don't understand this? Like, if you asked someone why they scumread something, and they answered "My perception " how would you react to that? It doesn't say anything about why you thought that way, it just seems like a reworded version of "That's what I think because that's what I think." This is my main hangup on my read of you - I don't see how, even if it was a town genuine thing, you don't at least see where I'm coming from here.

But in the previous interaction, I told you that I felt you were just asking the questions just to ask them to look busy. THAT was my answer to your question. I don't know how else to say. You asked me why I felt you were scummy, and I gave you an answer, then you reworded pretty much the same question you previously asked me, so I reiterated that it was my perception. If you're town I'm really sorry that we are not connecting mentally here. I honestly don't know how to else say what I've already said.

From what I remember seeing while it was happening live and upon my lookback is that I was suspicious early on for saying what I said about DGB. That's the reason you even engaged with me in the first place and now you're trying to paint this picture that it was other reasons. And no, that is not the crime you are being accused of. Checking to understand the situation is fine in a vacuum. The reaction/response is the crime for me, which I've said multiple times already.

It's the same thing? Yeah, I thought you were suspicious for the DGB comment. I wanted to ask for context because sometimes I do misunderstand things. It's true that I was always going to vote for you if I wasn't misunderstanding anything, but how is that the same as the question being pointless?

If I said the question was pointless, it's not what I meant and I was just probably in the heat of moment. The question was not a problem for me. Questions are never a problem for me because I can answer them as best I can and as genuine and honest as I can, but fmpov if I do that and still get scumread for it and get voted on, then in my mind, I'm thinking 1) Why did they ask me this, what was the agenda or goal and 2) I answered truthfully and as best I could and that wasn't good enough for them.

Should I immediately go to that person being scum. Eh maybe, maybe not, but in my experience that is how I've caught scum before, but I do understand the situation is nuanced. Shrug.

Shows that you didn't read all of my posts to get an idea of where my head was because I very much said and did more than just post a readslist.

I said things like that for a reason - I'm aware you did more than that, but like most of it felt similar to me

That's fair.

I will admit from posts 1-173 I was still trying to get a feel for the game so majority is in fact fluff with maybe a sprinkle or two of actual substance, maybe not depending on who you ask lol.

My first catchup and second catchup and from posts 305 to when I posted my readslist in 576 and then from 867 - 891 is full of game advancing posts, thoughts going on in my head, reads, why I feel the way I do or do what I do, questions to those scumreading my townreads, questions to townreads regarding potential scum, etc. For anyone to say I was doing nothing here is just scum because even if a townie hates me, they eventually have to play to the wincon and admit the truth. If someone wanted to use 1-173 as a case for someone being scum then so be it, do your thing, but these sections outdo/outdid all of what my scumreads were doing/saying at that point. I don't like flexing, I seriously don't, but I feel it's needed here because of the ridiculous notion I haven't been doing anything this game. The evidence shows this to be contrary, because even when I wasn't "doing anything" that was early game and

If you are town you are dead wrong, but if you're scum then everything makes sense.

You weren't doing nothing, and if I said that it was an exaggeration and that's bad of me. You posted game related content, but I don't think it was game advancing content for the most part. I think discussion about the AtE has been done to death but personally I don't think it's difficult to fake. I think broad-strokes sorting people by activity, even if it's not meant to be the primary point you read people from, still feels like posting for the sake of it. Stuff like the readslist and posting +1 to DGB's reads - like just saying 'these people are town, these people are scum' without elaboration - a lot of these things aren't inherently bad or scummy, but like, I think there is an absence of meat here. And like, the fact that I was your only strong read in 576 - and a scumread at that - to me indicates town Italiano is likely to discuss me more, try and respond to what I'm saying and/or try to push me and get a wagon on me going, rather than just naked voting.

Your posts after coming back were better and I don't think I claimed otherwise, and that's why I said I was less confident about you afterwards. I don't really townread your posts that much - I think most of it is cheerleading shirou and/or defending yourself in a way I don't find all that town-indicative, but like I don't expect that town Italiano wouldn't be doing either of these things.

I think that we've had a clash of playstyles possibly. I haven't played with you before and you haven't played with me before. This is how I play, it's unorthodox and it's unconventional and even a little weird and think that's why I always get scumread. I'm seeing that maybe you need more progression from players instead of just naked votes, naked readslist, as well as reasons for why they feel the way they do. Honestly I thought I was giving that to you and others so far, but I guess I gotta go deeper; always room to grow and get better.

In that case what do you think of Mastina or DGB who basically did the same thing as me, coming in and just throwing reads down without progression or explanation. (This is not shade toward either slot, I'm just making a comparison example so chill out people )

Ausuka, say you're town and fypov I am town and let's go with the premise that I have scum on my wagon or in the group of people who are suspicious of me, who do you think is the most likely for it to be?

It's tricky to say because I don't have a clear-cut list of 'people who suspect Italiano' in my head, a lot of people are in the middle where they say you're vaguely suspicious but don't want to vote for you. Your wagon rn is me, koba and DV. I wasn't a big fan of DV's read on kowahbungah, for reasons I might have explained here but also might have explained in the hood instead? Basically it was that I don't think most newer players are all that likely to think hard about how to achieve lims rather than just calling out people who are scummy, and Kowah felt sort of limbait-y at the time so I was skeptical of that push.
[/quote]

If you are town I think scum would be between either Koba or DV, I don't think both, so if Koba is town then I think DV might be the scum and vice versa.

Anyway I'm starting to feel a lot better about your slot Ausuka. As I said I think not having played with each before I'm guessing there is a leraning curve here. This interaction was good for me, not sure if it was for you, but I am feeling a lot better about this and maybe I was just wrong and caught up in the moment.

[ItalianoVD]

You only had a problem with those two because you townread them which is fair, but from looking at your list below, we didn't/don't really differ in townreads and seeing how low DGB and Arko is neither did we differ that much on scumleans, so I guess instead of asking about why those, my real question is why do you scumread me? What is your case and why is it that you are so adamant about it and seemingly so confident (tunnelly) about it?

Is there a reason you were referencing my most recent reads list instead of the one I made closer to the time of the reads list I questioned you on?

I ask you questions first. Mind getting to those first? I can answer afterwards.

[ItalianoVD]

So yeah, I think Arko is more likely to flip scum here than Italiano, but between Arko and Italiano, I may vote Italiano to hedge on me being wrong + making sure Ausuka/Koba is gonna get in heat tomorrow if he's town.

I mean obviously I'm not trying to get killed Day 1, but Arko is very meh for me and it seems it's that way for everyone. I could vote there, but he is one of my weaker scumreads and I agree that it's not gonna really tell us anything. It'll be hard to find scum on his wagon regardless of what he flips because he's very bussable as scum and very compromise-y as town so no one will go after any of his voters should he flip town and won't know who bussed should he flip scum. It is a conundrum, but one we may have to accept should it come to that.

Also, I've never minded dying if it made sense, I'm just not trying to die for stupid or pointless reasons. In the end I'm part of a team and if it requires a sacrifice to put the team in a better position I'm always down for it regardless of alignment. If my elimination helps give the town better direction or clear up some associatives then I'm down for it.

[ItalianoVD]

For now

UNVOTE:

[ItalianoVD]

I was looking to see how the Arko wagon started and Mala started the wagon, DeasVail joined, then Xofelf, and finally Mastina.

VC is:

Arko (4): Mala, DeasVail, Xofelf, Mastina
Ausuka (3): Shirou, Aisa, DGB
Italiano (2): Ausuka, DkKoba
DkKoba (1): Kowahbunga

The wagon literally came out of nowhere, but I honestly don't know how to feel about it yet. Thoughts from others?

[ItalianoVD]

To clarify, three of my townreads are voting there and one scumread, it's not doing anything to me readswise, it's just interesting how it formed.

[ItalianoVD]

Who's trolling you?

[ItalianoVD]

I’ve skimmed the last few pages. A LOT of great points that I can’t respond to yet, but I will.

And I’m sheeping Shirou.

VOTE: Ausuka

[ItalianoVD]

BTW don’t @ me.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay I'm back home now, I was driving.

[ItalianoVD]

UNVOTE:

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: italianovd
yeah after last page i feel like italiano literally isn’t reading the thread and is just looking for stuff to talk about that makes him look solvey

what do you think of italiano literallt ignoring the posts i made about the arko wagon and his behavior in the neighborhood and thread and then copying the arko post content wise without acknowledging mine whatsoever

I'm confused, what did I do? Or not do? Sorry can't you point to what happened, I'm genuinely lost.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: italianovd
yeah after last page i feel like italiano literally isn’t reading the thread and is just looking for stuff to talk about that makes him look solvey

what do you think of italiano literallt ignoring the posts i made about the arko wagon and his behavior in the neighborhood and thread and then copying the arko post content wise without acknowledging mine whatsoever

I'm confused, what did I do? Or not do? Sorry can't you point to what happened, I'm genuinely lost.

[ItalianoVD]

my issue with it is that like

idk if italiano is town how do i resolve that
it was a few posts above him
it was a long set of posts for me with quotes for each vote
i talked about him and said his name and etc

and it was like very soon after he posted his stuff, if he got peditted or something whatever i could maybe buy that but he doesn’t follow up or try to engage when i spoke about the thing he wanted commentary on and i literallt said i’m being trolled and he replied and like idk to me if someone said that i’d read back and try to figure out why but

if he’s just being careless town i don’t know how i’m supposed to distinguish that from being a wolf trying to look busy and it makes me feel like he’s just saying stuff

i feel like i’m beating a dead horse but my god

like there’s a difference btwn not acting how you expect town to normally and being the equivalent of that tuxedo mask gif

Again, not really understanding the issue. Can you point it out, like I'm trying to read over it, but I'm not sure what I need to be following or looking for.

[ItalianoVD]

Anyway, I said I was gonna sheep Shirou so.

VOTE: Italiano

[ItalianoVD]

Come on people let's push it through.

[ItalianoVD]

(i laughed irl ty)

You're welcome. I aim to please.

[ItalianoVD]

So I'm gonna give my team time to read the game, but just know I have a ghost vote on that Italiano guy, he's the worst.

UNVOTE:

[ItalianoVD]

Also waiting for Ydrasse to come back and tell me what's going on and what I missed.

[ItalianoVD]

Your metadive was fun wasn't it Ausuka. I wished you would've focused more on the normals and themes though. My newbies aren't really my best games, even though I say I do, I fond myself holding back and not really playing the way I can.

[ItalianoVD]

And who is Shea? Do they know me? How do they know I hate playing scum? Only a few people know that. Hmm.

[ItalianoVD]

WRONG That's E-2. Silly Koba tricks are for kids.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah idk I think shea just went through the most recent games on your profile and when he was done I just did the same ones he did

Shea is thestatusquo. From what he said I don't think he has played with you, but came to that conclusion based on what you posted. I kind of had the same view based on what I saw

Well that's fun. Any other questions, concerns, comments?

[ItalianoVD]

If anyone is hammering it's me so go away.

[ItalianoVD]

So nobody wants to ask me anything? No comments, no concerns, no snacks, no treats? Mmmhmm

[ItalianoVD]

I'm very sweet, so donut.

[ItalianoVD]

I do have a question actually what was with the shirou thing

What me townreading or sheeping?

[ItalianoVD]

Update: shea has told me italiano has a 7.69/10 chance of flipping scum.

[ItalianoVD]

Well I believe he's the townsiest player so why not?

[ItalianoVD]

you did make me wonder

now I'm just curious

Who? Me or Ausuka?

[ItalianoVD]

ok that did not change my mind sadly but thank you for your time

Wait, wait no, ask me again.

[ItalianoVD]

A readslist huh?

[ItalianoVD]

I'm treating you as confirmed scum right now because you just...instantly gave up + self vote?

so while you're here, trying to give us some wifom crumbs would be fun for us to make crack theories with

Was it something I said?

Okay here's a hot take. Take my last readslist read it, read it real good, then shine it up real nice, turn that sum***** sideways and stick it up, well you know the rest.

[ItalianoVD]

because I'm the honorary scum member and I promise to only push the townies in the list

Oh okay. That sounds fair.

[ItalianoVD]

What's your favourite pizza

Ooh, that's a tough one. This one. For you.

[ItalianoVD]

Giving a readlist for me to guess who are the townies I should push is the least all you can do to repay me...

Shirou

- Shirou has a tie for top townread with Aisa. Sorry Shirou you're gonna have to share the spot for now. As I said I tone read posts and Shirou's posting has had a tone that only the very skilled and aware scum can truly fake. I haven't played with Shirou so don't know if this could be his scumrange. All in all he is green for me.

Aisa

- From her first post to her last I've gotten nothing but good feels from Aisa. She even scumreads people in an adorable way. I don't think I've ever played with her, but I'm very happy that potentially my last game on site has her in it. As I said if she is scum I'm gonna be very sad.

Malakittens

- I normally townread Mala, so she definitely is a blind spot for me if she ever is scum, but based on her posts and interactions, I do actually feel she is town here.

Ydrasse

- I don't know I just feel Ydrasse is town here, tonality in her posts are what mainly does it for me. I also wanna believe she is for other reasons and hope to see her answer my questions here here.

Mastina

- Mastina gets a weak townlean from me still. Reason she was here in the first place is that I share a neighborhood with her as I said before and I don't generally trust neighborhoods, but the things she has said in it feel genuine, but there is that possibility that she is scum so my paranoia keeps her at yellow.

Xofelf

- I said I was going to switch DV and Xofelf's positioning so for now Xofelf gets my yellow. I initially had a townlean on them and then didn't remember why and then felt that they were being careful and calculating scum, which is why they were lower down in the first place. It could still be the case that they're scum, but I'm willing to see them get more involved and get into more of their thoughts and interactions.

Kowahbunga

- I initially liked Kowah for his interaction with Koba and the subsequent postings around the slot. I had him null before because I just couldn't really pinpoint where his posts were coming from, as in town/scum. I can't say he has done anything to move the needle in either direction so that's why he's still here. I'd also like him to take a stance on me after 486.

DGB

- DGB could be scum or could be town, I honestly don't know right now. Off the dome, I'd say scum, which is why this is very weak. Her and Arko are the weakest of the scumreads for me.

DkKoba

- A combination of how adamant Koba is on scumreading me without any sense of reason or change as well as the interaction with Shirou is why Koba is here. The reason it's weak, however is because in the back of my mind I still can see town!Koba playing like this. I do probably have a blind spot with Koba though, which is why Shirou is such a gift because he made me think about why I just automatically bin Koba as "oh that's just Koba". A very compelling argument indeed which I think others should take a look at inwardly.

Arko

- Here by process of elimination. I find it hard to follow the direction of what Arko is trying to say. I'm pretty sure it's probably his playstyle maybe. It did seem kinda too easy for him to jump on my bandwagon, but again could be playstyle, not sure yet.

DeasVail

- I still gotta deepdive into DV's ISO, but he locked onto me early and hasn't let go. I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt before. I don't believe he could genuinely tunnel this early when their is no true scumcase on me. I believe it's more so scum sticking to a seemingly easy target to lim. Maybe upon looking at the ISO, I can hopefully come to a stronger conclusion.

Ausuka

- Don't think I need to say anything that hasn't already been said. I think everyone knows where I stand with Ausuka and why.

---

green

- strong townlean

blue

- medium townlean

yellow

- weak townlean

white

- null

orange

- weak scumlean

pink

- medium scumlean

red

- strong scumlean

[/quote]

[ItalianoVD]

And with that, that..is..game..set..match.

VOTE: Italiano

That is HAMMER!

[ItalianoVD]

You normal scum members are full of privileges. You guys get guns, a nice luxurious secret base you can rest on and talk at anytime, not to mention some of you have super powers.

I didn't get superpowers this time. Oh well.

[ItalianoVD]

I will leave you all with this.

I was trying to scum up my slot as much as possible so that scum would stay away.

I believe my wagon is an all town wagon. You will all see upon my green flip.

I honestly don't think scum voted for me. Mala just towntold with that imo.

One love to my peeps. I told you all I don't mind dying if it helps the town and I believe this will. Ciao.

[ItalianoVD]

So we won?

[ItalianoVD]

sorry for metaing you wrong.



There was a point during the process when I was convinced you only posted reaction gifs as scum.

Ausuka had to put up with my mad ravings.

Lol no worries at all. I wish I had more time so I didn’t play so terrible.

[ItalianoVD]

no, not shirou. Italiano.

When I was looking through like his first 4 or 5 games the only ones he posted reaction gifs in were scum.

Funnily enough gif posting is nai for me and I’ve only gotten limmed because of it one time, (well turbolimmed when I was scum with Koba)

[ItalianoVD]

There are more people posting reaction gifs?
It's spreading...

[ItalianoVD]

To bad I can't post what's in our discord. I'll show you post game.

and i am pretty certain you are lying about it lmao

Okay.

Like I said, I'll show you post game and you can feel foolish when you actually see it.

As promised...

---

Italiano — 04/22/2023 9:37 AM
Look at what Koba posted about you Cerb lol:
[9:37 AM]
"The style of posting does somewhat remind me of Cerberus which I have taken into account as a plausibility thing for this dichotomy."

Cerberus v6.66 — 04/22/2023 9:38 AM
Lololol
[9:38 AM]
Interesting

Italiano — 04/22/2023 9:39 AM
I've never played with you, but I assume we may attack the game the same way, especially with our discussion on overexplaining.

Cerberus v6.66 — 04/22/2023 9:41 AM
Mhm. So in my game Jingle is passing on Kobas reads, and Koba went from scum reading my slot for being verbose without saying a lot, from their perspective at least, to apparently thinking I'm very town once Jingle told them that the posting style was NAI.

1
[9:42 AM]