[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[BBmolla]

I have no idea about the balance of that. Probably okay enough.

[BBmolla]

Mason or Mafia

9 Players

1 Mafia Goon

4 Vanilla Townies
2 Town Neighbors

Either (

1 Mafia Goon

and

1 Town Neighbor

) or (

1 Mafia Neighbor

and

1 Vanilla Townie

)

Does this exist already? It literally came to me in a dream but in the dream it was invented by someone and Bone7.

[BBmolla]

Mason or Mafia

9 Players

1 Mafia Goon

1 Doctor
3 Vanilla Townies
2 Town Neighbors

Either (

1 Mafia Goon

and

1 Town Neighbor

) or (

1 Mafia Neighbor

and

1 Vanilla Townie

)

[BBmolla]

Sanity Switch

9 Players

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Cop Sanity Switcher

1 Cop
1 Deputy
5 VTs

[/color]

• During the night, Cop Confuser can choose to
  Sanity Switch
  to swap the Cop's sanity. This may not be used in consecutive nights.
  
• Sanity Switch takes place the night of. So the investigation during night it is used.
  
• Cop will not be informed if sanity is swapped.
  
• Deputy will be sane if made cop, regardless of Cop's sanity at time of death.

[BBmolla]

Congrats?

A setup where a mafia chooses if a cop's result is sane or insane every night is interesting as fuck tho

^The idea was from here

[BBmolla]

Fixed it a little to make it more versatile.

Also think it is a learning game for newbies since it deals with 5 of the really common roles and a lot of the modifiers seen in games

, without being overly complex.

yeah no lol

I don't really understand, why is there a 0-shot backup JOAT inventor, isn't that just a named townie.

[BBmolla]

Setup 2 is super townsided
Like compare Setup 6 to Setup 2

Edit: That's for the original.

Setup 1 and Setup 7 seem townsided as fuck in the next variant.
Weak Bodygaurd = Second Cop. That's where your main balance issues come into play.

[BBmolla]

I'd argue that if a Weak Bodygaurd doesn't make it blatant who they protect they're game throwing lol

[BBmolla]

Oh I see what you're saying and I didn't even consider that, the bg can die from bg

I take back what I said.

Best move as bg is probably to aim for scum imo

[BBmolla]

I don't want to be pushy, but can I get some feedback on my set-up. It has almost been two days since I proposed it, and I haven't really got any serious feedback? I think it is really high quality, perhaps it is even the best set-up I have created in my years of mafia.

It's pointlessly swingy in my opinion, I tend to not bother looking at setups like that.

Big issue is also player size. With 10 players, 3 scum is way too much. Either increase the players or decrease the scum.

I'd prefer something more like this:

Hermit's Paradise

13 Players

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Proteus

1 Inventor
1 Backup Inventor
8 VTs

[/color]

• Inventor can give out the following each once per game: 1-shot Cop, 1-shot Doc, 1-shot Vig, 1-shot Roleblock, 1-shot Tracker.
  
• If Inventor gives out all abilities, his inventory is restocked.
  
• Proteus can give out the following each once per game: Voteless, Hated, Drunk, Compulsive, Delayed, Weak, Macho, Beloved, and Ninja

[BBmolla]

Voteless is debateably broke as fuck.

[BBmolla]

What kind of motivator iteration were you thinking

the kind that targets during day and affects that night or the kind that targets during night and affects next night?

[BBmolla]

Does the Motivator also function like a normal motivator?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Motivator

[BBmolla]

Without the randomness it looks pretty solid imo.

[BBmolla]

The best solution is to just have the motivator choose someone to motivate during the day imo.

[BBmolla]

Cowboys and Mafia

12 Players

1 Mafia Quickfoot
1 Mafia Sabateur
2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Sabateur
7 Vanilla Townies

• There are no lynches.
  
• Instead after each day the mafia submit a turn order for the players.
  
• The list is publicly posted
  
• Each day everyone can perform one action:
  Shoot
  or
  Dodge
  
  
• The Quickfoot may perform two. These may both be done on his turn, or one may be done at the end of the round (Not both). If he does not wish to action again, he must simply private message the mod "No Action." If he shoots at the end it must be public.
  
• On a player's turn, they either
  Shoot: PLAYER
  or
  No Action
  .
  
• Once a player is shot, if they have an action they may choose to
  Dodge
  . If they don't want to Dodge, they simply type
  No Action
  .
  
• A shot player who doesn't dodge and who was shot with a functional gun will die.
  
• The Sabateur submits a player name to the mod after every day. That player's gun will fail to shoot the following day.

[BBmolla]

If the scum just simply dodge every day, is there any way to get rid of them?

If multiple people shoot them. They can only use one action per day, sans the quickfoot.

Quickfoot might be a bit broken though. Might be cleaner just to get rid of him.

[BBmolla]

cowboys and cowards

both the quickfoot and the sabbaticaliteurs detract from the core idea imo

I guess with sabs I was trying to come up with a way for a player to choose not to dodge

And then quick foot to rid of any obvious town.

[BBmolla]

cowboys and cowards

both the quickfoot and the sabbaticaliteurs detract from the core idea imo

In regards to the Cowboys and cowards part, is that a name suggestion? Cause it's better than mine.

[BBmolla]

Let's simplify it for now.

Cowboys and Cowards

12 Players

4 Mafia Goons

8 Vanilla Townies

• There are no lynches.
  
• Pregame, the Mafia determines a turn order list.
  
• The list is publicly posted
  
• Every player who dies submits a new turn order list upon death. The new list is the one submitted by the last person to die in a day. It will be posted and take effect in the following day.
  
• Each day everyone can perform one action:
  Shoot
  or
  Dodge
  
  
• On a player's turn, they either
  Shoot: PLAYER
  or
  No Action
  .
  
• Players have 24 hours to choose an action before it defaults to
  No Action
  .
  
• Once a player is shot, if they have an action they may choose to
  Dodge
  . If they don't want to Dodge, they simply type
  No Action
  . Players have 24 hours to choose a response before it defaults to
  No Action
  .
  
• A shot player who doesn't dodge will die.

[BBmolla]

Ooh. Yes I like that.

[BBmolla]

BUT

You need to make it so that Mafia can only Dodge in response. Otherwise they all have a vengekill. Which is debateably broken.

Edit: It works fine because if a person "confirms" themselves as town by shooting in response, they're dead anyway.

[BBmolla]

I believe with similar games like this people here are inclined to limit the shots. They aren't limited, everyone can shoot every night, they have to decide each night if their reads are strong enough to act upon.. Hence the title.

In practice you're wrong.

[BBmolla]

I doubt Bob's idea would work in practice as it would be hard for one person to crumb a player, of which there are only 8, and have it known that it was a crumb but not who it was about, let alone for seven people to do this without scum figuring it out.

Disagree.

[BBmolla]

I believe with similar games like this people here are inclined to limit the shots. They aren't limited, everyone can shoot every night, they have to decide each night if their reads are strong enough to act upon.. Hence the title.

In practice you're wrong.

About limiting shots? I remember looking at some marathon set-ups, vaguely recall seeing 1-shots, but apparently I'm remembering wrong. Think I'll just join the queue and see if people sign up, or maybe I'll take another look at other ideas.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying that if all players could shoot, they wouldn't shoot, which I disagree with. More often than not players will always utilize their abilities if able.

Except Llamafluff

[BBmolla]

This probably isn't mafia but here's a fun idea that popped into my head 2 minutes ago:

# of players 3 to 12
1 to 4 Mafia Lovers
1 to 4 Werewolf Lovers
1 to 4 Jester Lovers

Three teams of equal size. Mafia wins if werewolves are lynched, werewolves win if mafia are lynched, jesters win if jesters are lynched.

No one is allowed to vote for themselves. Not sure if making everyone hated will make it work better. Or maybe jesters don't know who their lovers are? Or IDK.

Or maybe
1 Hated Mafia Goon
1 Hated Werewolf
1 Hated Jester
1 Hated Townie

Mafia wins if werewolf and townie are dead and they are still alive. Werewolf is similar. Jester wins if lynched. Townie wins if they are still alive on day two or if the jester is the only one alive on day two. No one can vote for themselves. Day one continues until there is a lynch.

Game 1 is impossible to get lynch. Wolves wont vote wolves, mafia wont vote mafia, jester wont vote anyone but himself.

Game 2 is just "convince the townie who he should let win"

[BBmolla]

This the route I'd go personally with that setup.

Blind Guiding the Blind

12 Players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Supersaint
1 Town 1-shot Vig
4 Vanilla Townies

• The 1-shot Vig knows the identity of the Supersaint.
  
• If the Supersaint is alive day 3, town loses.

[BBmolla]

Or "convince the townie you are the jester". Assuming townie loses if jester is lynched.

Then it's just Win, Lose, Banana though.

[BBmolla]

I believe with similar games like this people here are inclined to limit the shots. They aren't limited, everyone can shoot every night, they have to decide each night if their reads are strong enough to act upon.. Hence the title.

In practice you're wrong.

About limiting shots? I remember looking at some marathon set-ups, vaguely recall seeing 1-shots, but apparently I'm remembering wrong. Think I'll just join the queue and see if people sign up, or maybe I'll take another look at other ideas.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying that if all players could shoot, they wouldn't shoot, which I disagree with. More often than not players will always utilize their abilities if able.

Except Llamafluff

Nah I meant purely from the set-up perspective.. I can't tell how eager players will be to shoot their scum/townreads, but it's going to be a short game nonetheless. But the whole point is there's a risk involved, if your reads are incorrect. Not shooting can be useful too.

90% of players have their heads up their ass and will believe their reads are the best and will shoot

[BBmolla]

I'd love to be proven wrong though, so feel free to run it.

It's not mafia by definition of there being no informed minority though but it's mafia enough to run on site.

[BBmolla]

I'm saying that if the SS is alive at the start of day 3 game ends.

You could argue that trying to get scummiest player to lynch SS day 2 is optimal. I think it's okay if people really want to go that route. Or vig could just save shot and use it on SS night 2.

There is not enough incentive to discourage crumbing and that's such a janky interaction to deal with. You need dire consequences for scum finding out who they are or it doesn't work. Example:

Merlin Vengeful 7p

7 Players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Merlin
4 Vanilla Townies

• Nightless
  
• When a town player is lynched at an odd number of players (7, 5, 3) the town player gets a vengekill.
  
• Merlin is privately informed who is scum at start of the game.
  
• Players flip "Town" instead of their role.
  
• If scum are all lynched, they must choose one player who they believe is the merlin. If they guess correctly they win.

Now that I'm thinking, might be better if it's just normal vengeful 7p instead of just 2 goons.

It is impossible to make an interesting 4 player game with 2 scum and a jester. Because that's 3 scum 1 town.

[BBmolla]

That's a pretty average setup for someone who just came to MS.

[BBmolla]

In essence that's mechanically the same as We Need a Fifth just in simpler terms and you have to call both scum at once instead of one after the other.

[BBmolla]

Domination Mafia

9 Players

3 Mafia Goons

6 Vanilla Townies

• White Flag
  
• Normal lynching mechanics do not apply.
  
• Everyone has two votes. These votes may not be used on the same player.
  
• Once someone has been voted by majority, they cannot be unvoted.
  
• The two voted are the only players Mafia may nightkill. They must nightkill one of them.

I was literally coming back to this thread to resuggest this forgetting I'd already suggested it...

[BBmolla]

Kill List Mafia

9 Players

2 Mafia Goons

7 Vanilla Townies

• In addition to the normal lynch, players may vote for a player to add to the mafia's "kill list." This vote can be changed at any time but is set in stone when the normal lynch is reached.
  
• The day can not end until everyone has submitted a vote for the "kill list." If a lynch is achieved, the flip will be delayed till everyone has voted. Once the lynch is achieved votes for the lynch and "kill list" may not be changed.
  
• The players on the "kill list" are the options mafia have to kill during that night. As long as a player has one vote on the kill list, mafia may kill them.
  
• If only one player is on the "kill list," mafia may choose to kill anyone they want.
  
• Mafia must kill.

[BBmolla]

I imagine that version is more fun? Might be less balanced though.

[BBmolla]

Dead on Selection

9 Players

2 Mafia Goons

7 Vanilla Townies

• Once a player is lynched, they select two players. Only one of those two players may be killed by the mafia that night.
  
• Mafia must kill.

That's probably even better I think.

[BBmolla]

Agree with Smeagol.

[BBmolla]

...You can't just say Town PR without saying what possible options there are

[BBmolla]

I think triplicate Mafia is a cleaner version of that idea.

[BBmolla]

Quite need some changes.

The Chosen One

Rolelist:

Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Bulletproof Serial Killer

Mechanism:

Nightstart
Mafia must choose a town player to be The Chosen One.
The Chosen One won't be notified they were chosen.
Mafia must Lynch The Chosen One.
The Serial Killer must nightkill The Chosen One themself.
Mafia may sacrifice The Chosen One, they'll have no lynch target and must choose another town player to be The Chose One.

Win Coditions:

Town wins if they eliminate all threats.
Mafia wins if they succesfully lynch The Chosen One.
Serial Killer wins if they nightkill The Chosen One.

Seems nigh impossible for town to win imo.

The general rule of thumb for setups like this is for the "Lyncher Faction" to have 2 targets. (See Chosen Mafia)

Also, what happens if mafia choose the SK? Do mafia have a factional kill still?

[BBmolla]

Town should always have a majority. Even in multi ball.

[BBmolla]

Oh wtf I thought they were one-shot bps lmao

[BBmolla]

Sharing is Caring was run here.

It was also run over at Mafia Universe I discovered (won't link for obvious reasons). The mass agreement was it was too townsided because you can have like 4 clears day 2 if everyone mass claims and suggested replacing Mafia Doctor with Jailkeeper. It's also noteable the framer died over there night 1.

Wanted to get some thoughts. I'm pretty okay changing Mafia Doc to Jailkeeper and I think the reason it seemed more balanced here is less than ideal play from town PRs.

[BBmolla]

I was under the impression 40/50/10 was the ideal in a town/maf/sk scenario.

SK winrate should be very low.

[BBmolla]

Because SKs lose if they're lynched. Other factions have a bit more room for error. Imagine if lynching one town lost town the game. Or if lynching one mafia lost mafia the game.

Unless I'm misunderstanding EV, most possible scenarios should result in an SK loss.

[BBmolla]

List of the Damned

9 Players

2 1-shot Avoiding Mafia Goons

7 1-shot Avoiding Townies

• When a player is lynched or night killed, they privately send the mod the name of a player. That player recieves a One-shot Doctor. These can stack.
  
• Each night the mafia
  must
  submit a "Kill List" containing every living player in the game. The nightkill will occur on the player at the top of the list.
  
• Once per game each player can privately submit
  Avoid
  to the mod. If they are the nightkill target, it will instead pass on to the next person on the list. This can happen any number of times.
  
• At the start of each day, the list will be posted.

[BBmolla]

1. What happens if everyone alive avoids (EG. N1)?
2. Can mafia kill themselves?
3. Does the 1-shot doctor rule include the Mafia goons?
4. Can the Mafia do 2 actions in a night? (IE. Submit the list with them second, and doctor themself in the case that first avoids.)

1. No one dies
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. A goon can avoid, Doctor and night kill all in one night.

[BBmolla]

I'd be very down to be an open setup subform mod mith

A topic per setup would probably be fine. Then you could run more frequent contests and such.