[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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ArcAngel9
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Post Post #5631 (isolation #0) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:07 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Hello folks,

Not sure if this is going to work.. but i am thinking something like this ...

Angels V/s Demons

7 – VT – No night actions
1 – Demon Godfather ( can perform a night kill)
2 – Angels – Can choose a player and convert he/she into VT
2 – Demon Lords - can choose a player and convert he/she into Demon

Demon Godfather, Demons and Angels can't be converted to another through a night action.
Angels wins , when Demon lords and Demon God father is eliminated
Demons wins, when all Angels are dead and VT's are converted as Demons.


Note: Neither Demon Lords or God father or Angels will not know how if the convert process was successful or not. So, the game play of VT's often shift from side to another side after each night.



Please feel free to add your suggestions and let me know if this setup can workout :)
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Post Post #5634 (isolation #1) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:54 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 5632, IceGuy wrote:What stops the Demons from immediately claiming and getting the Angels to de-convert them the next day?

Two reason why they shouldn't
A) Demon lords can target them in night and convert them back again
B) It will narrow down non-powerrole list for Demon Godfather and he/she will have best chance taking an Angel down in night kill


And I assume the Demons don't know each other, because then converted ex-Demons could just out their team after.[/quote]

Demon Godfather and Demon Lords know each other but not the Demons nor the Demon lords if they convert were the successful or if they de-converted.
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Post Post #5635 (isolation #2) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:55 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 5633, JacobSavage wrote:Angels can be congeryed.....



nope, Angels can't be converted by Demon Lords


Also I think this is too bastard to be really run as an Open.

You've got a mafia cult and a cult and VTs who win how?


Sorry, I didn't understand your question.
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Post Post #5636 (isolation #3) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:02 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

So let me put the rules one more time…

7 – VT ‘s


VT’s has no powers except voting on day phase.

1 – Demon Godfather


Demon Godfather shares a QT with his demon lords
Demon Godfather can perform a night kill

2 – Demon Lords


Demon Lords shares a QT with their Demon Godfather
Demon Lords can randomly convert a player in to Demon each night, however they will not know if their night action was successful
Demon Lords can’t convert Angels

2 – Angels


Angels share a QT too ( We can negotiate this part)
Angels can randomly convert a player back to Demon if they had been corrupted by Demon Lords, and they will not know if their night action was successful or not.
Angels can’t convert Demon Lord or Demon Godfather

Angels
win
, when they take down Demon Godfather, Demon Lords and other conjured demons
Demons
win
, when they take down Angels, and all the VT’s


Or when one team out run the other.

Any more thoughts please???
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Post Post #5640 (isolation #4) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:34 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 5637, borkjerfkin wrote:basically either

1) converted VTs never find out scum team and therefore can't really help their new team during the day



That's the point.. !!!
Its a war between Demons and Angels, Demons are increasing their strength by converting normal Town people in to Demons but not really knowing who they're converting. If Demon Lords and Demon God father dies.. the rest of Demon can still fight for their team. That is the
HELP
they will be getting by convering VT's into demons.

In post 5638, JacobSavage wrote:But what is the Town win condition, when all the angels and demons are dead?

Currently it appears that they are punished if they lynch all the angels


angels are basically town power roles.. They protect town.
If all Demons, Demon lords and Godfather dies.. the town wins along with Angels


its as similar as Town lynching their power roles.. It depends how the players put out their play... its fair chance of winning for both the parties.
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Post Post #5642 (isolation #5) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:42 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Well that what makes this game a bit different to other, your allignment is not consistent neither the reads you have... so you need to build a new strategy and understanding of each player after every night..

it doesn't suck as being VT, it makes the game complicated to play. And still the voting may not be completely random. Remember we have 3 team maifa and 2 team town power roles who will be consistent in the game.. the only crowd that is not consistent are VT's which is actually very interesting part here..
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Post Post #5650 (isolation #6) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:30 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 5646, Mr. Flay wrote:
In post 5640, ArcAngel9 wrote:its fair chance of winning for
both
the parties.

Exactly. You're
only
looking at this from the POV of the Angel and Demon factions. Town is utterly screwed.


What changes you could recommend to fix the town part.
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Post Post #5658 (isolation #7) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:45 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

does the open games are limited to have power roles to a certain number or can they be more than 2 or 3 power roles?
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Post Post #5707 (isolation #8) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:51 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 5701, JacobSavage wrote:
Everyone needs
good
Neighbours

9 Town Neighbours
3 Scum Neighbours
Night Start.


Split {T,T,T} {T,T,T} {T,T,M} {T,M,M}
Scum have day talk.


This one is great!!
when this is up, i would like to sign in :)
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Post Post #5974 (isolation #9) » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:42 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Is VT's are compulsory in every open setup? or Is it just formal so that it gives a balance since mafia is only 20-30 percent in total
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Post Post #5978 (isolation #10) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:38 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 5976, callforjudgement wrote:VTs aren't compulsory, but it's quite difficult to design a balanced setup without them in practice. Opens need a large number of duplicates of some role to not be broken by massclaim, and most roles unbalance a game if you use a large number of duplicates of them. VT doesn't, so it fulfils the "role scum claim to blend in" by default.
make sense, thanks!!!
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Post Post #6169 (isolation #11) » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:45 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Good Morning,

I am planning on running an approved "Less Pressure" Open setup in Micro (modifying it into 5 P instead of 8P)
Please see the original Setup here : http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Less_Pressure

So, I am planning to modify this setup into 5P and wants to see if this can work. and I need one of your expertise and blessing to make this work :)

there will only be 5P,

1 Town Innocent Child
2 Vanila Townies
2 Mafia Goons

Innocent Child is announced at the beginning
Mafia will have a day talk
No Vengeful kills

so, I looked at the three possible patterens that can happen onday1

Town lynches Scum on Day 1
Scum kills Town Innocent child
the game is in lylo.

Town lynches Town on Day1,
Scum Auto wins as they control 50% of votes

Town goes for "no lynch" on Day1
Scum facktion kills and wins as they control 50% of votes

So, I am assuming that this setup wont work. So, please add your thoughts and tell me what can i do make this 5P work and balance it out properly at the same time. :)
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Post Post #6389 (isolation #12) » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:26 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Hello folks,

I am planning on hosting a micro open game.. every role has some major powers.. the alignments are not decided yet. But i want to know if i could make any of the two or three roles as mafia and rest as town. Or 2 mafia, 1 as other and 6 as town . Will that be balanced well?

If anyone would like to review that setup.. Please let me know... I will send you the QT link. thank you
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Post Post #7408 (isolation #13) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:43 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

MOD's & reviewers, We need your blessing on this...


I am planning on running Pop corn Mafia under large theme game, Pop-corn mafia is an open setup and a night less game. Please see the Wiki for more details.
Considering the popularity this setup has.. We are confident that this game would be more fun for larger audience (19 or 21 players at least)

If the game is for 19 players - 13 Town & 6 scum
If the game is for 21 players - 14 Town & 7 scum.

Please let us know which of the above setup is more balanced to run for large game.

Bork will be co-modding/back-mod for this game. And please feel free to give any suggestions that improves this idea. Thanks a lot!!!!
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Post Post #7427 (isolation #14) » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:01 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7408, ArcAngel9 wrote:
MOD's & reviewers, We need your blessing on this...


I am planning on running Pop corn Mafia under large theme game, Pop-corn mafia is an open setup and a night less game. Please see the Wiki for more details.
Considering the popularity this setup has.. We are confident that this game would be more fun for larger audience (19 or 21 players at least)

If the game is for 19 players - 13 Town & 6 scum
If the game is for 21 players - 14 Town & 7 scum.

Please let us know which of the above setup is more balanced to run for large game.

Bork will be co-modding/back-mod for this game. And please feel free to give any suggestions that improves this idea. Thanks a lot!!!!


Bump. Need inputs regarding Balance. Please. ty
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Post Post #7429 (isolation #15) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:40 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7428, Bicephalous Bob wrote:12v7 is probably better


Isn't the mafia suppose to be like 30% of total players? 30% of 19 is around 5.7 means "6". I think "7" will overpower mafia.
I see 14 Vs 7 fits well. Please correct me if i am wrong. ty
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Post Post #7431 (isolation #16) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:18 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Isn't Knowledgeable Survivor sounds like Hatered Townie or so?
What's the advatange for mafia lynching this person?
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Post Post #7432 (isolation #17) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:19 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

others wise it sounds more like 3rd party with too much of information...
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Post Post #7434 (isolation #18) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Town have lot of disadvantage... They will have to concentrate on Survivor than Mafia becuz if Survivor succeeds.. he wins they will loosee.. Town is doomed big time..
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Post Post #7435 (isolation #19) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:26 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

•Town wins only if they eliminate the knowledgeable survivor before the last scum member




That ^ Win condition doesn't seem fair to me... especially survior knows every one's alignment. Make the survivor as 3rd party with no knowledge on players alignment. that might balances with this win condition.
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Post Post #7439 (isolation #20) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:31 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7437, BBmolla wrote:TierShift, I imagine the survivor will just out the mafia when he's being lynched. There is nothing to stop him from doing so.


Good point. Survivor shouldn't be knowing alignment of players at all.
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Post Post #7443 (isolation #21) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:42 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

so How about 13/7 fits well?
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Post Post #7445 (isolation #22) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:50 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7440, TierShift wrote:I don't think you understand what I'm going for with this setup, a reverse mafia of sorts. A player needs not to kill town, but mafia without being found out.

Anyone got any other ideas as to get this idea working?


Let me think about this again.. Gettting into a call.. I ll add my thoughts in a bit.
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Post Post #7939 (isolation #23) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:48 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Hello, Want to know if this setup can work... Appreciate your feedback. Thanks1!

Game concept: I am the Joker!!!!!

2 Mafia Goon

1 Joker

6 Townies


Mafia can’t kill
During day Joker creates 3 parcels and send it to random people.
1 of the parcels contain a deadly bomb
1 of the parcels contain a healing portion
1 of the parcels contain a deadly virus
The receiver auto opens the parcel they receive. Deadly bomb kills the receiver instantly, Virus infects and causes a pain full death on 2nd night. Healing portion is sharable between players.
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Post Post #7941 (isolation #24) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:32 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7940, TierShift wrote:The joker can never win:
If he can give parcels to himself, he's bound to kill himself sooner rather than later.
If he cannot give parcels to himself, everyone who receives one is confirmed not-joker and that will eventually lead to the joker getting lynched.

I think there is something to say for a concept that has the joker be able to choose the people who receive the parcels; in that way, he can WIFOM by selecting himself. Still, doing so has a high chance of suiciding.

You need to define what the healing po(r?)tion does. Does it stop the virused player from dying? Who decides if the potion is applied or not? What do you mean by sharable?



Joker can't give parcel to himself.
If someone receives Healing portion, they can either use on themselves or give it to someone else. Virus effects takes end of 2nd night phase to have the player die.

And I see your point about Joker can never win the game. How about I tweak that Joker can win with any faction once if he eliminates one among the two. ??
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Post Post #7943 (isolation #25) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:02 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Healing portion heals anyone from the virus.
Joker actions are compulsive which is why it is random. He wont have choice of selecting who he want to give them that will make him threat to both the factions
TBH both town and mafia would want to get rid of him, he gains nothing by siding with town because he doesn't have control of his parcels. Joker is psycho path so i think the flavor fits well.
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Post Post #7944 (isolation #26) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:06 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

the only point i earlier missed out is that how fair i was thinking from joker's play side... but thanks to you i understood that his winning chances were merely. If i can tweak that he can win with any faction.. He is exactly playing the role he suppose.. Joker in the cards. Powerful and always win!!!

Town or Scum still have their chance to lynch him from the d1. And Btw the healing portion can cure someone from virus..

Example:
X receives parcel on N1 contains deadly virus
X receives parcel on N2 contains healing portion, X-lives through!!

OR

X receives parcel on N1 contains deadly virus
Y receives parcel on N1 contains healing portion, Y may give theirs healing portion to X on N2 or use it on themselves

It works like that!!!! You still think this wont work?
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Post Post #7949 (isolation #27) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:37 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

So Is this a workable concept?

And yes, people who receives parcels will be notified what they received.
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Post Post #7981 (isolation #28) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:45 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

I want to run a Mega PopCorn Open setup(as large or medium large game). the existing Popcorn mafia is a 11P game with 7 townies and 4 mafia goons. For those who are not familiar with the setup. Please See this. There have been several feedbacks about Popcorn being very town sided but in the past the games have moderated had 50/50 results.

And now, I have few changes in the setup and want to see if this can be workable.

11p Townies (includes 1 gun bearer)

3p Mafia Goons

3p Mafia Vengeful Goons

(Night Less, Mafia will have a day talk)


If Gun Bearer hits Vengeful goon, they die with them and Mafia will have to select another Gun bearer.

I need opinions on this setup and if this balances both factions equally. Appreciate your feedback on this!!!

Thanks a lot!!!
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Post Post #7986 (isolation #29) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:16 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7981, ArcAngel9 wrote:I want to run a Mega PopCorn Open setup(as large or medium large game). the existing Popcorn mafia is a 11P game with 7 townies and 4 mafia goons. For those who are not familiar with the setup. Please See this. There have been several feedbacks about Popcorn being very town sided but in the past the games have moderated had 50/50 results.

And now, I have few changes in the setup and want to see if this can be workable.

11p Townies (includes 1 gun bearer)

3p Mafia Goons

3p Mafia Vengeful Goons

(Night Less, Mafia will have a day talk)


If Gun Bearer hits Vengeful goon, they die with them and Mafia will have to select another Gun bearer.

I need opinions on this setup and if this balances both factions equally. Appreciate your feedback on this!!!

Thanks a lot!!!


Knock Knock!!!
Looking for feedback on this... Molla, jason, llamla? please and thank you :)
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Post Post #7988 (isolation #30) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:53 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

The setup is same as before except now mafia may have equal chance to fight with Town.
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Post Post #7990 (isolation #31) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:56 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

No they are not separated Mafia team. They all single team...
Have you played pop corn mafia before? It is so much fun to be gun bearer, It's so over powered that at one point of game a lot people have opportunity to hold the gun but only at the right hands it will hold value.
On contrary it was the Mafia team who weren't really enjoying this game in the earlier setup as it feels that town is so over powered which is why I am proposing with new changes.. 3 vengeful mafia increases Mafia chances equally with team.
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Post Post #7992 (isolation #32) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:52 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

I am open for any changes that will improve the game setup but popcorn is one of few setups people dont mind it repeated over and over.. Its very entertaining when you play it.
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Post Post #7994 (isolation #33) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:31 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7993, LlamaFluff wrote:@AA - Can you run the numbers on win chances? Its probably not too difficult but I wont have time to run them myself for a few days.


Sure. I ll calculate and let you know how it goes.!!
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Post Post #7998 (isolation #34) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:43 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

If SK, MG or WW cross fire.. its GG. And in my opinion scum hunting for three factions are way too much.. Knock it down at least two...
Easy town win. I personally wouldn't want to roll into either of them except town.
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Post Post #8001 (isolation #35) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:45 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7993, LlamaFluff wrote:@AA - Can you run the numbers on win chances? Its probably not too difficult but I wont have time to run them myself for a few days.


So I spent some time go over the setup... So here are my findings. Please let me know what you think about this. I am not sure If i have used right logic here.. if not, please feel free to correct me.

Win Chances Calculator - Please follow the below link.. This calculator was built by someone (I have no idea) but i do know it exists and it is pretty easy to use it especially to see win chances by % with no of players.

http://games-net.de/hosted/tggc/trash/m ... ss=1&do=Go!

So here are the results for this

Town: 59.69% Win chances, However this will not be accurate as Mafia have vengeful so Mafia three additional chances to get rid of a confirmed townie which increases the win chance for team mafia between 45% to 53%

My conclusion is town may have max of 53% chances of winning where as mafia may have min 45% chances of loosing. Hope this make some sense.

Or if there are any alternate method to calculate this.. Please do let me know.. thank you!!!
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Post Post #8003 (isolation #36) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:13 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 8002, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 8001, ArcAngel9 wrote:
Town: 59.69% Win chances


Which according to the calculator is them picking 10% better then random.

Essentially it's an 8v3 nightless (3 venge kills all taken out as these are certain to happen)

An 8v3 for popcorn is a weaker mafia and a stronger town then your generally given, and even with the misplacing of the gun it is probably a lot more town sided then popcorn.

And because the gun is always on the most scummy person anyway it's not like a townie person will get the gun to kill themselves on the vengeful mafia.


I see your point. And a good alternate is to make this is 18P open game because 8vs4 giving increasing mafia win chances to 50% and brought town win chances to 58%

With that said.. the updated setup is...

3 Vengeful Mafia
4 Mafia Goons

11 Townies ( Including Gun bearer)

(Mafia will have Day Talk, Night less)


Any comments on this?
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Post Post #8005 (isolation #37) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:29 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 8004, JasonWazza wrote:
Mafia will have Day Talk


Why?


Since It's Night less... the popcorn mafia had day talk too.
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Post Post #8007 (isolation #38) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:15 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Mafia wins whey they control more than 50% of votes
Town wins when they eliminate Mafia team.
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Post Post #8008 (isolation #39) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:16 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Town can still vote, they can choose to lynch if gun bearer doesn't want to shoot.
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Post Post #8010 (isolation #40) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:26 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 8009, JasonWazza wrote:OK so apparently i played a different popcorn mafia (this one) and wasn't aware that voting was a thing.


I am surprised, the earlier games I played had something like this and another one didn't. the micro games I have run had an option to vote. I think it is safe to have vote. What if Gun bearer doesn't want to shoot being scared by Vengeful goon?
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Post Post #8011 (isolation #41) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:40 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

And I want to hear those golden words.. " this is good to go"
someone might say it before I faint :P

Image
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Post Post #8013 (isolation #42) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:02 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Its their gun, their choice. I am just the creator ;)
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Post Post #8040 (isolation #43) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:53 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 8024, wgeurts wrote:(Or ask me to make one)

Edit:
Made one: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... corn_Mafia
Just move it if you want the page to be called differently.


this is perfect!!! Thank you for doing this :)
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Post Post #8047 (isolation #44) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:02 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Is that obvious... Protect themselves from being killed by SK?

Is it possible to change the 2shot bullet proof to 2shot bodyguard which works even better for town.
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Post Post #8049 (isolation #45) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:34 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 8048, TierShift wrote:
In post 8047, ArcAngel9 wrote:Is that obvious... Protect themselves from being killed by SK?

I'm not stupid. I'm asking why he thinks it's necessary for scum to be able to protect themselves.


Sorry I didn't meant to insult you. They need to live through to recruit Mafia traitor before Serial killer or town nails them down. It makes sense to have mafia doctor in that setup. At least.. I agree with it.
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