Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[Ranger]

blocky is confscum

Agreed.

VOTE: BlockyMan.

[Ranger]

Also, Titus, I'm sorry, but your scumteam theory of Blocky/Ocean/Fire is wrong.

It doesn't have ETL on it. ;)

[Ranger]

(I think Firebringer's the third, btw.)

[Ranger]

Though I admit Marge is possibly scum, too. I think four is possible with the setup, but what combo, not positive of yet.

Overall, pretty confident in {BlockyMan, Firebringer, Marge, EspeciallyTheLies}. I'd be extremely surprised to see a scum outside these names.

[Ranger]

Flubber = towniest so far

I'm not sure if he's the towniest so far, but he's up there.
Titus is pretty high, too.

[Ranger]

{Vedith, Titus, Flubber} is actually a fine start to a townbloc, btw. Invite others as appropriate.

[Ranger]

(Though Ythan is pretty town, too.)

[Ranger]

{Titus, Vedith, Flubbernugget}
{Ythan}
{OceanWind, Percivul}
{Kraeg, Kop}
{BlockyMan, Marge, Firebringer, EspeciallyTheLies}.

[Ranger]

{Titus, Vedith, Flubbernugget}
{Ythan}
{OceanWind, Percivul}
{Kop}
{Kraeg}
{BlockyMan, Marge, Firebringer, EspeciallyTheLies}.

[Ranger]

Free towncredit for the person to bring BlockyMan to L-1.

[Ranger]

When town fucks up a claim they show it. Marge had no reaction between claiming and then realizing that probably isn't a good idea. Like some sort of an "oh fuck" feeling to their post. Now compare that to the massive amounts of ate spilled when she got suspected. It doesn't line up with how a genuine game-solver should be thinking

While I agree, I happen to think that BlockyMan is also scum, and there's more support there.

Get a wagon really going and I'll join, though.

[Ranger]

Oh my fuck if marge flips scum the whole team may have just been called

No arguments here! (If you're saying what I think anyway.)

[Ranger]

Marge Blocky Ythan.

I think he was saying Marge Blocky Kraeg.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Titus Titus has gotten awfully scummy.

I do think marge is scum too.

BlockyMan: Titus, Vedith, Marge, Ythan, Ranger (5)
Titus: OceanWind, EspeciallyTheLies, BlockyMan (3)
Marge: Flubbernugget, Firebringer (2)

So Ythan's statement was accurate.

[Ranger]

Popcorn to Ranger then?

The only way BlockyMan would be able to get a claim from me is by filling me full of bullets.

[Ranger]

Huh.

The game was going fine for a while, but has suddenly stalled. :/

[Ranger]

So in your fourth post, and 129th overall, you think you have the scum nailed down?

No, that would be arrogance. Kraeg has joined them, making it five.
I would be surprised to see someone outside those five names flip scum, yes, but that doesn't mean I have the scumteam nailed down. It just means it's unexpected.

On the positive side, he noted that Ranger is buddying, which is something I thought too after Ranger proposed a town block.

A townbloc I excluded myself from is buddying...how?

[Ranger]

Throwing vedith and Ythan in a town pile right now is pretty ew

Read Vedith's posts and tell me they're scum.
They're not.
Ythan's not in the townbloc because he could be scum, but I've seen some very strong town thinking behind his posts, in particular, the thoughts he's had on players like, say, BlockyMan.

Does anybody not find it strange that Blocky has been at L-1 for a while now, and nobody has posted intent or even hammered him. Does this spell an indication that scum are on his wagon?

OR, BlockyMan is actually scum and the lack of intent/hammer is confirmation of such.

[Ranger]

Alright, who the fuck is Ranger an alt of? They obviously know me.

I think this is a scumslip.

I'm not an alt, but my only posting about EspeciallyTheLies has been scumreading her.
And if she thinks I'm a player who knows her, that would mean that I'm a player who has a correct read on her.

[Ranger]

Those of you who aren't voting Persivul need to explain to me why not in a way that doesn't involve "Blocky is better" because he's not.

Well to put it bluntly, I think you're scum pushing him, and in the engagement between you two, he comes out on top. I don't think your points hold water, I think his posting looks town, so I will not be voting him.

[Ranger]

ranger or whoever you are, I'm a bit flabberghasted by that. I don't understand how anyone could confbias off one greeting post and then consider any of Persivul's arguments to have "come out on top".

It will help you to know on my home site, RVS is a big deal. It lasts most of D1, and continues to be scrutinized--every single post of it--for the entire game. It's never rendered irrelevant. So, yes. One post of yours, I scumread. Your posting since then has not changed the read. I'd be lying if I said it really strengthened the scumread, but it certainly hasn't weakened.

As for Persivul: I feel your attacks are on shaky grounds at best, and he is defending himself adequately against them. He seems reasonable. You don't.

And why aren't you voting me then?

Only have one vote, silly. :P I have five suspects; I'm not a quintuple-voter.

[Ranger]

Here, I'll make it easy for you:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Blocky

Okay.

I see the Persivul suspicion

now

.
I think it's a bad-bus-vote, meant to get attention off of either himself or Blocky, but in either case, I still think we should lynch Blocky.

[Ranger]

Ranger, if Blocky is town, what does that make you think of Pers?

Won't change my opinion. My reads form independently from one another. (Bad stuff happens otherwise.) Interactions augmenting my observations are just a bonus. I think BlockyMan is scum.
I think Persivul's vote was bad, maybe scum-bad.
I still don't have a townread on you.

BlockyMan flipping town or flipping scum doesn't change my stance on either you or Persivul. Persivul's alignment wouldn't change my stance on you or BlockyMan. And yours doesn't change my opinion on them, either.

My BlockyMan scumread is stronger than any Persivul suspicion, though, and there's a strong wagon already present, so he is the player that I am pursuing.

[Ranger]

So you don't evaluate pushes after you get a flip based on the flip?

Not based off of the flip in of itself, no. A player flipping town or scum does not magically make this player that had an interaction with them town or scum.

Of course I will read the push. Of course I will re-evaluate my read given the information from the flip. But I do so by analyzing, not assuming.

[Ranger]

Read Vedith's posts and tell me they're town

Good activity, so not lurking. Casual, natural attitude early-on (exemplified best by a post like 30 but present all-around that area), nice original observations (was he the first to point out the inconsistency behind Marge? I think he was), I suppose I could link to more posts but I'm not sure how much more proof you need.

He's town.

[Ranger]

Is this a serious post? For you to be extremely surprised to see a scum outside these names, you need to be townreading everyone else.

Everyone who had posted at the time...yes.

For instance, the only think I had posted was to vote Titus and push that lynch which is similar to what EspeciallyTheLies had posted so why does she make your scumlist as opposed to me?

Similar actions, sure, but they were done differently. I can't recall from memory the posts in question (I'd have to look them up, too lazy right now), but simply put, yours looked town; hers didn't.

Scum whiteknighting detected.

You don't know what that word means, do you?

If I were white knighting Persivul, I would have provided reasoning.
I didn't; I stated my stance in the debate. My opinion was that Persivul defended himself well, and EspeciallyTheLies did not raise solid points. There is no defense, because I didn't say why I didn't think EspeciallyTheLies didn't raise solid points, nor did I defend Persivul for him. It was nothing more than giving EspeciallyTheLies the response she asked for. She wanted to know what others thought of Persivul without relationship to BlockyMan. I told her.

That opinion has since changed because Persivul is down to

at absolute best

null.

[Ranger]

@ Ranger (499), what changed that Persivul has now gone from town to null?

Not null.

At best

null means he's actually below. As for why: The horrible vote on BlockyMan. Regardless of BlockyMan's alignment, that was bad.

Can you also quote specific arguments that Persivul brought up and why you thought they were a good defense?

Yes but that would make me be a white knight.

:P

[Ranger]

What's up! I'm vanilla town. Not a good defender, but I will blitz like the best of em.

Pretty sure this is scum pretending to not know as much about the thread has he actually does.

[Ranger]

I do want to see what parts of his defense you liked.

It's a cop-out, but to quickly answer your question: all of it. Even the more recent posting.

After I've caught up, if I have the time, I may point out some of the strongest bits. But I see him defending himself, and I see him making sense. I saw the attacks against him not being well-reasoned and having less factual basis.

I said that between Persivul and EspeciallyTheLies's arguments, EspeciallyTheLies argued well whereas Persivul was unable to hold his own in a graceful or elegant way.

Pardon me, but I don't remember. Did you back this up with hard post numbers and/or reasons?

You know exactly why I ask this.

[Ranger]

Marge: Flubbernugget, Persivul, Ythan, Kraeg (4)
ProHawk: Vedith, Ranger (2)

I really don't like how ProHawk has done nothing to remove the suspicion on his slot and yet the wagon on him has dissolved.

[Ranger]

I will return later tonight. Apologies, something came up before I could read here.

[Ranger]

OTOH, the wagon on Margeside is growing, and you've had her in your scum pool from the beginning. Looks like an opportunity...

This is true, and I regret not being around to switch my vote at the time. It probably wouldn't have made a difference, but it could have stopped the mislynch.

I'm reading from right here to see how it happened, very, very closely because that was a horrible lynch. Titus was obviously town, and if she claimed her role (I haven't read yet to see if she had), it was an easily-confirmable role. I guarantee there's going to be at least two scum on that wagon.

[Ranger]

If I was able to dismantle my wagon by doing nothing, it goes to show how strong of a case it was built on no?

It

does

show how strong a case it was built on, yes: incredibly-strong. If the case was not strong, then the wagon would have never built up. That it collapsed shows that it was strong and scum were involved in its dissolution.

SK crumbs as vig, promises direct help, later claims vig (pointing to the crumbs) and asks for doctor protection. Probably selected BP over investigation immune, so pointing out the cop crumb to get scum to help with the dirty work. Neat plan. Sounds like something Titus would do.

Was

this

it?

Seriously,

this

?

If so, that's beyond bad.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Marge.
Would also vote Persivul or EspeciallyTheLies from what I've read so far.

[Ranger]

Plus my ability either a) works as a second lynch or b) is trackable. It also draws scums to me if I actually suspect them out of self preservation as vig CCs are best resolved by bullets in this setup.

This. SO much this.

Titus easily, EASILY could have confirmed her ability during the night.

This is scumhunting 101: vigs can prove their claim. If they don't, or they kill in a manner that looks like a serial killer, lynch them, but you DON'T lynch them day one. You let them shoot once at minimum.

And between {Marge, Persivul, EspeciallyTheLies}, I guarantee a minimum of two scum for them pushing her lynch anyway.

[Ranger]

And you know this... how?

Because they've flipped or are town. :P

Sex makes Ythan uncomfortable. We should talk more about how good it will feel when Titus flips red.

This is so...fake.
VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies.
Scumread there is stronger than on Marge now.

Because...yeah. That's not a town player who legitimately thinks they're lynching scum. It's a scum player who is making a random effort to fake surprise after the townflip.

[Ranger]

Fucking yikes how do you claim vig un cc'd and still get wagoned that fucking hard

Easy: by having scum on the wagon. Lots of scum. Maybe even three.

I'm dead serious, I'd vote to lynch any of the members of that Titus wagon.

In related posting: my scumread on Firebringer has vanished. With the defense of Titus, I don't see scum defending her in that manner.

[Ranger]

I am intrigued at the argument of Titus SK but I don't really want to lynch her oddly enough.
VOTE: kop
Can we lynch this instead?

I was wrong about ProHawk. He is town. (I think Kop is too, though.)

In other news, I may be wrong about my Marge scumread, but I'm not sure about that.
Similarly, my Ythan townread is increasingly taking a hit for his demeaning attitude towards everyone.

[Ranger]

Lynch ETL

I find this no coincidence.

Are we looking for someone to hammer? I'm also comfortable with a Titus lynch.

This is scum, too.

{Flubbernugget}
{Kop, Firebringer}
{ProHawk, OceanWind, Ythan}
{Marge}
{EspeciallyTheLies, Persivul, Kraeg}.

[Ranger]

He stayed in the Blocky wagon the whole day even if it's already proven to be a bad one, and I wonder why.

*She.

And I wasn't on the Titus wagon.
Your argument is invalid. :P

It amazes me you can have the sense of superiority after you just lynched a townie. Like you lead a lynch on a townie, and you call me the bad. The amount of self delusion.

He could always be scum, though.

[Ranger]

If you believe this is true explain how.

Alias: Vig
Alignment: Pro-town
Role type: Killing
Choice: Night

---

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Vigilante.
Abilities: Each night phase, you may attempt to kill another player.
Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

@Ranger, it is easy to say now that Titus was obviously town after the flip. At the time of your last post D1, Titus had four votes and the wagon was going strong. Why didn't you comment about Titus when you posted to say that you'll be back later that night?

I will return later tonight. Apologies, something came up

before I could

read

here.

Before I could read. Now do the math. 751, my last post, was therefore the last thing I read. The Titus wagon was virtually nonexistent at the time. (757 shows this.) It certainly didn't have SK mentions at the time. The SK suspicion took off at 771...

after

I was gone.

I have every right to be pissed you lynched one of my strongest townreads, and a power role at that, off of something as horrible as that.

{ProHawk, OceanWind, Ythan}
{Marge}

Switch Marge and Ythan here.

[Ranger]

If it's a regular vig claim sure you can keep watching them but 1 shot vig is like the easiest/laziest sk fakeclaim in this setup.

This seems absolutely backwards. If you're a serial killer and you claim vig, then you can shoot every night. If you claim one-shot vig and you continue to shoot, then you're outing yourself as a liar.

[Ranger]

Two votes in three posts...panic much?

Could you BE any more scum with this?

I was reading the thread, clearly changing my opinion as I read.

So yes.

Ranger do you phone post or post using a computer?

Computer. Don't see how that's relevant, though.

1245 has what, as far as I can tell, is two solid townreads: a 'conftown' player (who is anything but), and ProHawk (which is an incredibly-weird read to have. I can see ProHawk as town because of his refusal to vote Titus, but ETL's townread him before he did that).

[Ranger]

You must be thinking of that game that isn't mafia where we can see everyone's night actions.

Vig night actions we can.

Especially

if there were three deaths at a night, no? Didn't happen, but it could have.

[Ranger]

In part, her entrance today complaining about the Titus lynch as if it was obvious all along that Titus was town looked fake.

Oh, you absolute

liar

. My posting on that came

after

your vote on me; you're being revisionist.

I'd vote any of Ranger, Kop, or Firebringer. All need rope.

How much do you want to bet none of these names will flip scum?

[Ranger]

I find it suspicious that you're using the Titus wagon against those who were in that wagon.

No duh. I think all the scum were on that wagon.

[Ranger]

That looked like scum putting up a false bravado front because she was nervous, similar to a first-time speaker prepping themselves before a speech.

I've been playing mafia for longer than you, m'dear. I never feel nervous in a game. The only emotions I feel are amusement, boredom, and frustration.

Take a guess which I'm mostly feeling right now.

Ranger's defense of Persivul smelled like bullshit and her being too sure of Persivul and complimenting his arguments against EspeciallyTheLies looked like the kind of certainty scum have when they know that a townie is town.

Uh-huh. And me almost-immediately backtracking on that read to null-at-best was me doing...what, exactly?

How do you not see scum defending her in that manner?

Because either the scum thought she was a real vig who could shoot in a manner detrimental to them, OR, they legitimately thought she was a serial killer, and therefore being on her lynch wagon would not be suspicious. (Plus, getting rid of a serial killer by lynch removes a wild card they cannot account for.) In short, scum have

every

reason to SK-hunt; town does not. So a player defending her, by extension, is practically confirmed town.

[Ranger]

While I'm

extremely

skeptical of the mason claim, I really don't think it's a good idea to

lynch

a mason claim.

Because if it's real.

You're all gonna look

real

stupid after it.
(Not to mention scum.)

So I think that this is probably the correct play:
VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies.

[Ranger]

Why would scum look stupid for lynching a mason claim?

I meant to say people on the wagon would look really stupid and really like scum.
One of the two would be false for everyone (presumably--never know about potential overlap), but everyone on the wagon would look like both.

[Ranger]

Ranger or Kop for me. Highly unlikely scum didn't participate in the lynching and both of those votes were bad.

Uh-huh. My vote, when I was one of the earliest and hardest pushers of EspeciallyTheLies, was bad.

My read was wrong, sure, but I made very clear why I was scumreading her.

I protected Ranger night three.

What on

earth

?

VOTE: Ranger

This was your vote prior to your switch onto ETL.

And then you go and protect me?

Not buying it. Not buying it

at all

.

[Ranger]

I'm holding back the urge to vote Kop right now because this is lylo.

But I don't buy that claim. I'd be the last person Kop would protect, and it reeks of BS.

[Ranger]

Between Persivul and Marge, it's still possible it's townVtown, so I'd encourage you to unvote right now, because I think my observation in 1661 is

really, really important

and I'd ask you two to not endanger the game in case you are both town because of it.

That doesn't mean it

is

townVtown, but the risk is too great right now. Please unvote.

[Ranger]

Ranger, please claim.

I've generally got an aversion to claiming. If everyone else thinks I should, then sure, I will, but otherwise, I'd let the scum keep guessing.

The important thing, though, is that I'm HIGHLY skeptical of Kop's doctor claim, and I want you to please keep that in mind.

[Ranger]

Fine. Not a role, just a VT, but I still don't see Kop's claim as working.

[Ranger]

Pro, ranger and Flubber what are your thought on who is scum?

Well I think the masons are town (don't see scum risking it), which narrows it down to you/ProHawk/Flubber/Kop by default.

Kop really,

really

looks like scum, though.

[Ranger]

2 players attacked ocean and finally even after the claim fire is killed over the "claimed Mason"

And

if

Kop is a real doctor, then scum had reason to fear a kill attempt.

Mason's would have already discussed gender at this point in a pt.

...And mafia wouldn't?

The rest of those look like smart mason play. I don't see explicit calling out of Ocean being scum. I see soft defenses of him that don't paint a neon sign saying, "SHOOT ME OR OCEAN BECAUSE WE ARE MASONS".

Your posting is looking more and more like cornered scum.

[Ranger]

At this point, I do think that, unless the masons are scum, Marge has to be scum.

So I'm willing to risk the game on this.

VOTE: Marge.

[Ranger]

W00t! Won the first two Blitz games, one as each alignment! :D

6) The scum team was incredibly obvious.

No denying that. I did think that, up until the last day, we did a good job of distancing between one another, though. So give some credit where credit's due: associatives meant we'd be hard to find, until in lylo where we made it obvious. (We didn't need to hide anymore, because we were going for the win.)

I do agree that individually, we all looked pretty obvious. I put zero effort into hiding my alignment, especially since I thought I was for sure getting lynched for the cop guilty on me.

I named each and every single one of the scum team from the jump.

You're also not without blame, EspeciallyTheLies. You basically spearheaded the lynch on Titus, when Titus had 2/3 of the scum (Persivul and OceanWind) locked down on D1. Had you listened to her, we would have had a much harder time.

you handed the PRs to the scumteam on a silver fucking platter.

Again, you claimed VT early, so you contributed to this as well.

While there's no denying town played horribly and that we as a scumteam didn't play strongly, you have to recognize your own faults in the game as well. You are not blameless.

[Ranger]

1) Any general thoughts on my modding of blitz?

You gave us VCs basically every page and were on top of prods/replacements. I don't think you could do any better than that.

However, I saw your proposed changes in the dead PT. Given my experience with blitz games, I strongly,

strongly

disagree with your proposed changes. 18 hours for prods is fine, but modkills, I'd discourage. All the blitz games I've seen so far have had replacements lining up fairly rapidly.

they should have killed me

We didn't, though, because we had no reason to fear you. As Persivul said: you identified the scum, yes. Nightkilling you when you had claimed VT would only be

validating

your stances, whereas by lynching you we discredited you. You did nothing to earn the nightkill. You did a lot of self-destruction which got you lynched.

I doubt Ranger will think to figure the letters thing out by himself after Persivul goes down (Persivul's been the one doing most of their setup analysis).

You assume too much. I'm not an incompetent newb. (I specifically noted during N1 of the game that I felt bad people were

assuming

I was, because I'm not. I have five years of experience, more than most players in this game.) I put as much effort into a game as I need in order to win. If Persivul and OceanWind had gone down, then I'd have needed to step up my game, but since they didn't, I never needed to.

I mean, your scum team voted together all game long

Not really? I wasn't on the Ythan mislynch or the Titus mislynch, and OceanWind wasn't on the EspeciallyTheLies mislynch. (Though he could have been.) Persivul and OceanWind being on the same lynch makes sense with their mason claim. The worst lynch was the EspeciallyTheLies one, but by then, we had endgame in sight.

4) Persivul coaching Ranger.

Maybe it's because I really didn't need the coaching, but I never saw Persivul coach me. I knew what I was doing the entire time.

[Ranger]

I'm taking pre-in's for my next Blitz game, which will be Pick Your Power X/Y.

I'll /pre-in for this, though, regardless of your rules, because I plan on drawing scum and showing how I'm more competent than you give me credit for! :D

[Ranger]

If you want a lynch badly?

I would.