Newbie 531: (Game Over)

[Apyadg]

Confirmation!

[Apyadg]

The general meta of experienced players at MS is that they like to be vanilla. I agree with the sentiment as does the majority of the community

I can't easily find any posts to substantiate this; got any links?

[Apyadg]

Soupfly, Superfly, and Slysly...I think I'm going to be confused for a great deal of this game!

Battousai, I'm not really sure where I stand on random voting; I'm not sure if, as you claim, it leads to the possibility of a mislynch, directly, as it'd be an extremely poor townie population to base a lynch on nothing but random votes; the lynched player must act pretty summily. Random voting can also serve to stimulate discussion, it can often give the game a good kick-start; how else do we begin, but some random voting, and building from there?

And you definitely shouldn't have said what you did, it seemed like you were "trying to hard" to look townie, to me at least, though I don't necessarily agree with Tamuz about it being a scumtell; I haven't played on MS for long, but I'veplayed "Werewolf" on IRC fairly regularly, and most players seem to prefer being the "wolf" (scum), maybe it's just a different demographic, though.

Can we ehar something from those who've not yet posted since confirmation?

[Apyadg]

No need for the prod, sorry about not posting in a while, ten straight days at work because of the Christmas rush. :/

There'll be a longer post by me in the next few hours, need some last minute groceries, I'll have internet time in the evening.

[Apyadg]

Am I glad that Christmas is over with!

Battousai's potential scumtell still strikes me as being one of the most notable events so far. I believe your only comment on it, Battousai is "Maybe I shouldn't have said that", which doesn't really seem enough to me; why did you? I don't buy that someone just types and submits something in this game without considering how it would be interpretted, and it serves no purpose to tell people that you're vanilla; as Soupfly points out (#41), it just makes very little sense as a townie to make that post. But it also makes little sense at all to make that post as a scum. What do other people make of it? To me, it just seems to be bad play, and not necessarily a scum tell, but as we're so short of other suspicious posts, it really should be considered.

His "mod-fishing" about his role worries me slightly more.

The reason why I asked this is so if the cop investigated someone and it turned up townie, I would know if there is still a chance that they are scum and shouldn't be knocked off the list of possible scum.

If this is the case, why not simply ask in PM, as the rules make it clear that you can? As a townie, it seems to me, you're more likelyto be lynched after making that post, but again, it'd be very bad play by scum.

I can't defend myself further without claiming, so please, either don't vote to lynch me or if I have 3 votes against me, let me post before the final vote.

This post also makes me suspicious. It's essentially just "As soon as I'm about to be lynched, I'll claim". Are you more likely to do this as scum, or townie? I'm not ready to vote yet, but the case for the defence of Battusai seems to pretty much be that his posts were just stupid, and not scumtells.

[Apyadg]

*waves*

Mod, could you prod everyone? This game is dying.

[Apyadg]

"Right tlp made a mistake, lets just say he's probably scum and lynch him fast!" That way 1 less to go.

But your "mistake" was a vote which appeared scummy. What else are we going to have to lynch people with other than behaviour which townies consider to be scummy? I'm not saying you should have been lynched on that post alone, but then neither was Tamuz.He voted for you and clearly laid out his reasons by giving an analysis of your posts, and you shrug it off by saying you're inexperienced, and fail to directly address any of his points. "It's alright, I'm a newb", well, quite. This is a newb game, so mistakes will happen, but being a newb still isn;t a defence, or we'd have nothing at all to lynch on.

So, in summary, I'd appreciate you directly addressing the points Tamuz made, by explaining why you did what you did, instead of just misinterpreting Tamuz (he never said anything *close* to "Lynch him fast", this seems to be a deliberate attempt to cast doubt on Tamuz based on words which were never spoken), and claiming inexperience.

[Apyadg]

Battusuai: I think my position is pretty clear above. Obvious scum choice at the moment.

Tlp: Still at base-level scumminess for me, little to move him above or below it. If you're town thogh, Tlp, you need to start being more helpful. An attack on you doesn't make the other person mafia, try to find the scum, not just win the argument.

4 days since posting, prod please.

Apyadg: Pretty sure I'm innocent.

Soupfly; 9 days without posting, useful scum-hunter before that. Probably town, I think, but

we need a prod

, his computer might have died completely, but we can't play with 6.

Slysly; Scarce posting, but I think he's town too. He gets bonus marks from me for trying to get the mod to not set a deadline.

Superfly; No posts in 8 days,

prod please.

Tamuz; Not only scumhunting, but encouraging Battusai to defend himself. Either a townie or a scum just realising how much trouble his partner is in. I lean towards the former.

Quite hard to get any reads with the game being this stagnant.

Prodded the three.

[Apyadg]

I do also feel that Battou just waits the vote count and hopes he's not lynched and if he is.. bad luck?

Agreed, and I'm not sure what to make of it. Is he a townie that's doing a very bad job of defending himself, or is he scum trying to make us think he's a bad townie, so we won't risk lynching him?

I'm leaning heavily towards the latter, I don't think much of the way he states he will claim at lynch -1, it's just saying he's a special role, without having to reveal which, in case there's a real one.

In fact, as he's already stated he WILL claim, he's either;

Scum, using it as his last resort

A power-role, who will be killed by the scum, if he's not lynched, as he's already revealed he has a role. He's not the cop, which means he's a doctor if he's not scum, so he won't be protected.

Vote: Battousai.

[Apyadg]

Bad timing, Bird

You didn't have to steal the top of the page you know

[Apyadg]

They were only prodded a few hours ago, and this game is played by people from all timezones, they could be working, sleeping, or anything else.

Mind updating the vote count, Bird?

Done.

[Apyadg]

Superfly do you have any reads on other people yet?

Tlp, what do you make of the case against Battousai?

I do also feel that Battou just waits the vote count and hopes he's not lynched and if he is.. bad luck?

What conclusion do you draw from this? Do you think the case against him is good? If not, why?

You've not really commented on anyone other than Superfly, and your only support there is a "feeling", can you flesh this out and give u some examples, or do you have anything to say about other people?

[Apyadg]

Although I have a feeling the doctor has countered. Yet, I still think it should be in the open and be obvious about it. If Battousi claimed your role, counter him for gods sake, we may lose our doctor and not autowin with a cop claim (if B is the RB) on day 2, but we are assured a scum then.

I'm not sure I agree with this at all.

You want the doctor, who has a chance to try and protect someone tonight, to claim and condemn himself to death, when Batt is on the ropes?

Why should the doctor claim unless it looks likely that Battousi is going to get off? Can't the doctor do more benefit in the game if he stays undercover for the time being?

[Apyadg]

My vote on Battusai definitely stands.

The last post has convinced me even more.

So he said he was a Vanilla, and said he was lying. He then pretended to be cop, and says he was lying. Then he claimed to be doc, and not says he was lying. Now he's come full circle and claims to be vanilla.

In my opinion, his last post is nothing more than protecting himself in case the doc agrees with Tamuz and decides to claim to oust the scum.

[Apyadg]

Battousai, if you are a townie, you are so awful it is unreal.

Agreed. The trouble is, he's pretty awful regardless of his role. Mafia, Doc, Cop, or Vanilla, he's been far from brilliant.

And I'm now struggling for a justification for believing him to be an awful scum player rather than an awful townie.

His frequent changes to what role he claims to be is a huge blunder, regardless of his true role; is it worth taking the risk of him being town? I've been considering it for a whle, and I'm not overly keen on lynching him right now.

Soupfly, it might be a bit much considering you can only type with one hand, but would it be possible for you to post a short summary of your views on each player? Might be helpful to see the game from the perspective of some fresh eyes.

Tlp, any thoughts on recent posts, since the new year began?

[Apyadg]

Tamuz, where exactly do you stand, at the moment?

In post 92, you seem to think tlp, you (obviously ) and Superfly are probably town, with 2 of me, Battousai, Slysly and Soupfly as probable scum.

As such, I'm a bit confused about why your vote stands on Tlp, and you've not really tried to make a case against any of the others, except Battousai.

[Apyadg]

On battu, i can't really tell 100% that he's scum so I'm not yet gonna lynch him. If he would turn out townie it would have been a "great" play by the scum.

I'm not too keen on this statement, Tlp, in fact, it seems pretty scummy to me.

You say you don't want to lynch someone becauseyou can't be 100% certain that he's scum, but do you really think you can EVER be 100% sure? Short of a confession, there is no way in this game that you can be certain when lynching someone.

Your second sentence is what seems reasonably scummy, to me. You've played almost no part in scum-hunting in this game. Other than an early defence of yourself, you don't seem to have really contributed, and yet here you are, seemingly already trying to setup a lynch for the next day.

Tell me, what is your defence of Battousai, what do you see that I don't?

[Apyadg]

oops, didn't scroll all the way down and missed the bottom half of your post!

Soup, Hope you don't suffer too much but i would like to hear some things from you. How you think about battu,

how you think about me, how you think about the problem if battu is the so called doc?

Hasn't he already admitted he isn't? He has claimed several roles, got muddled up in his own lies and confused which he is claiming to be, and changed his mind when put under any pressure.

Sure ppl might say battu played bad but nothing so far convinced me of him being a scum.

Is lying to the town playing badly, or scummy?

Then again battu is 1 vote away from lynch so if tamuz changes his mind its pretty over for him.

Why put the pressure on Tamuz?

Tlp, who do you think has been scummy? You don't think the Battousai is, so do you have any suspicions at all? You said in your last post that you thought Battousai and Soupfly were scum. You've since found out that Battousai has decieved the town again, and you no longer think him scum?

[Apyadg]

Focused on Battousai, sort of dared him to roleclaim in #75

Did I really? At that point, Battousai had already said he was a power-role, he had in fact already "role-claimed", just not specifically. We were told he was a power-role, just not exactly which one. Btw, who didn't focus on Batt?

put Battousai on L-1 and kept him there, though "was not sure of lynching him" at #112.

Firstly, for everyone other than Superfly who go to check the post; he's just got the wrong post #, he means 111, not 112, I'm not being misquoted!

I said that I wasn't overly keen on lynching Battousai, as whilst he was playing extremely badly if he was a doc, this didn't make him scum, as he was in fact playing awfully no matter what his role was; what reason was there to think him an awful scum player, instead of an awful town player? I mainly kept him there due to not having a reason to remove the vote. I didn't foresee the hammer coming anytime soon (I asked Soupfly to post a quick summary, so I thought we'd have further discussion), and both before and after that post, Iwas pretty confident that Batt was scum.


I agree with your assessment of Soup, on the whole. He's not really posted enough (not his fault, but it's the truth) to get a good read on him. I don't blame him for the Batt lynch as the final vote, because it did seem the only possible outcome of day one, at that point. I would have liked him to give the brief "outsider's view of the town" that I requested, but him not doing that is hardly scummy.

Tlp, I'm not so sure of, and I'm not sure why you have him down as the most likely Townie, Superfly. The only real point you make is he didn't agree with the lynch. Well, yes, but is that not worrying enough in itself? He seemed to very much sit on the fence; he claimed that he thought Batt was probably scum, but he wasn't certain, so he couldn't vote, he ignored me querying this. I'm on the fence about him too, but he does seem to have been "actively lurking"; he's posted a lot, without really saying anything.

SlySly, I agree he's not posted much about anyone but Batt, but to be fair not much but Batt has been discussed at all. Your use of the word "bandwagon" interests me, as I consider it quite a negative term, what interests me is that you were on that bandwagon and call it one. Was it really a bandwagon? Going back and looking at post 39, I still find it fairly convincing (overlooking the fact that I now know Batt's true role).

Soupfly, would you mind giving us your thoughts on Day 1, you discussed Batt and your thoughts on his play, but what about everyone else? I still think your insight could be quite valuable.

[Apyadg]

We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

[Apyadg]

Lots of words

You should have seen it before I reread it and got rid of the repeats and bits that I didn't understand even though I wrote! Too many thoughts flying around for me to even get my own head around them.

[Apyadg]

We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

More role digging? Didn't we get enough of that from Battousai? This could be a scummy attempt on your part to expose a night target.

We did, but the situation is rather different now, isn't it? Though I take your point about the NK, but if we got a scum through roleclaiming, would it be worth the life of the doc/cop? I'm not sure, that's why I asked.

[Apyadg]

I didn't vote on battu because i was never sure that he was scum (like everyone) so i didn't vote on him because i thought this would happen.

For someone so unsure of whether we lynched the right person, you didn't seem to be making much of an effort to draw attention to other people. It's all very well you pointing out you thought it might happen, it's hardly helpful though.

[Apyadg]

Vote Soupfly

You ignore the suggestions of the rest of the town to not roleclaim for the moment, and why? So you can get in your early claim to get people behind you, before "your role" is claimed. Unfortunately we're not into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.

[Apyadg]

we're now, not we're not.

[Apyadg]

we're now, not we're not.

[Apyadg]

Its indeed very suspicous to keep a vote on him. If scum could they would have already quicklynched him and won the game, so its obvious that or soup or apy is a scum.

It seems I wasn't quite clear enough in my vote post.

There's a very good reason that there hasn't been a speed-lynch, which is that the vote is on a scum player, of this I am sure, because the only cop in this game is me.

Alas, I have no roles ofother players to give away, as Tamuz

was

the player investigated; It was him or Tlp that needed to be investigated, as even though neither of them had no real defence for Batt, nor he for himself, neither of them voted for him. Sure,he was a townie, and it's unfortunate he was lynched, but I saw no possible defences for him, and they made no attempt to make any.

Tamuz is, of course, the only name that would be put forward as an investigation target, if a scum were to claim cop, it's unfortunate that he is who genuinely *was* investigated, and you can be almost certain that this is the case. So it is one word against another, the only difference being the order in which we claimed. Ask yourselves why Soupfly claimed first, I give the reasons why I believe he did in my last post.

[Apyadg]

on the other hand the longer apy keeps me here the more dangerous it becomes. as an IC i can say that this is the worst kind of mistake you can make...if he's a townie that is.

Why say it as an IC, and not just put the argument forward? A clear case of you attempting to use your IC status to influence votes. Feeling the pressure?

However, I feel counterclaiming, not just voting, would have been the logical reaction to soup if you were cop, so I am leaning towards you being scum.

It was a counter-claim, albeit one in which I didn't actually include the words "Oi, no, I'm the cop". Why didn't I? I suppose one could argue that I didn't because I was leaving it vague, in case it backfired, but this clearly isn't the case; it seems unmistakable to me that I'm saying I'm the doc there, why else would I vote him and say it was my word against his? Amidst writing the other points in my post, I simply forgot to be specific, but I think it's quite clear.