Newbie 1247: Luggage in London (Game Over)

[The Acting Method]

VOTE: Greywing

For the most interesting vote during RVS in a game I've played so far.

As SE I am going to try to play to my win condition and aid you all in being apart of the site to the best of my ability... Though to be quite honest I may be a little rusty myself.

[The Acting Method]

I'm also UTC -08:00.

I also like time zones because they allow for us to have an idea of when you are most likely to be on...

[The Acting Method]

Let's see, while am I'm an SE I'll politely answer your question anyway.

I've been in many games both onsite and off (though most of my games here have been loss.) I have played mostly on another site where I have indulged in modding from time to time as well.

[The Acting Method]

An interesting post... I confess that the most Brundibar has added so far was a discussion of Time zones... But that could be either side...

An unlikely proposition would be that he and Blastoide are the Mafia but that would be a bit weird,

Though I did find it odd that Blastoide's random vote specifically mentioned the lack of the letter B in the username...

Which would be a decent random vote if it was in more that just two usernames in this game.

Also quid if you don't mind, I'll call you Quid as QAM is too close to TAM which is one of my nicknames for me to feel comfortable calling you that.

[The Acting Method]

That's about right...

Meh, I'll let it pass... I like it more when random votes actually feel like the person put some thought into the flippant reason...

Speaking of which, Purkle made me chuckle his random vote.

[The Acting Method]

Well Grey, at this point in the game, any scum tell is going to be weak. One could argue that this is the case of all scumtells.

[The Acting Method]

Okay, I know the game just started and it was the weekend but

UNVOTE: Greywing

VOTE: The1fifi

[The Acting Method]

I don't even see a justification,

However Brundi, your comment is noted should ififi turn up scum...

There is no reason to read inactivity as town, nor is there any reason to read it as scum.

I hint at my reason in the post I voted.

[The Acting Method]

Buttons, please explain your line of thought as it makes no sense to me.

[The Acting Method]

And I was also referring to post 49... What is your logic there?

[The Acting Method]

You're the one whose put the major focus on Greywing through the side... All Tierce has done so far was ask him who he thought was scum... The only vote that's been placed on him was a RVS vote so you're entire case seems to be a stretch.

[The Acting Method]

You still haven't answered my question.

Your case is ill worded and you are doing exactly what you claimed she did above.

[The Acting Method]

Because I didn't (And still don't quite) See what Buttonmen was talking about.

Keep in mind, I asked Buttonmen a question and he has yet to adequately answer it... Especially the question I meant which was referring to the post on the bottom of page 2 that he made. In fact, he has actually done the exact thing he was accusing Tierce of... Does that explain why I "Defended" Tierce to you?

[The Acting Method]

Vash, your vote not only makes no sense, you provide a count of who voted for who and give no reason as to why your reason for your vote makes sense.

Explain why you think I'm scum.

Your reason isn't valid as you have given no evidence to support your theory.

Button still needs to respond to my request.

[The Acting Method]

Might want to check your links Blast, but frankly, I wouldn't say he was "defending" my vote, more than questioning Brundibar's questioning of it. And Actually Blast, I did give a reason with my vote at the time, or at least hinted at it... But I guess it's to much to assume that anyone would have realized that the person I was voting for was the ONLY person who hadn't said a word at the time.

Thus the words I said before making my vote.

@Vash, Then allow me to elaborate, It didn't make sense to me and came out of the blue. Your first post in awhile and you automatically have a scum pair? With no explination as to why? Fishy and nonsensical.

2. That's the mod's job, you shouldn't be doing it.

3. Is part of 2 and correlates directly to what you said in your post as your reason...

Oh And your first line basically has just made you my potential scumspect with Buttonmen, "night one accusation"? one, it's day, and two, I've seen and made far more defensive posts than the one you quoted...

Now stop dancing around and answer my question.

[The Acting Method]

That's alright Blast...

Frankly, Tierce's chumminess, while intriguing because I hadn't been paying too much attention to it, is not my main priority at the moment, I would much rather get an answer from Buttonmen about post 49, and Vash about his reasoning behind voting for me, than dwell on mannerisms that are not away to go when it appears to be applicable to most.

[The Acting Method]

Same question goes to Buttons. You aren't giving reasons, I'm asking for reasons.

Simple, One, if the person is checking the site and the game and lurking, they'll see the vote and go "Maybe I should defend myself" And frankly, Lurking is anti town, yes Town does it, but It is still Anti town.

Two, It allows the mod to be made aware of the situation.

Frankly, It shouldn't be the whole content of your post... And you should give your reasoning behind your reads.

[The Acting Method]

Button, unless your replacing in voided my vote, My votes still on you.

I'm suspicious of you because you put pressure on someone for something you were doing yourself, and you never adequately explained your case which was so weak I wouldn't even bother taking it to a lawyer.

Vash is my second most suspicious, again giving a read without giving reasons on why he should be followed.

Also Vash, you were the one who said night one, I'm the one who called you out on it.

[The Acting Method]

I respectfully disagree that the scummiest thing you can do is vote for an inactive. Maybe it's because I come from a site where inactivity kills a game. And yes, inactivity kills game, And frankly, encouraging inactives by saying they are safe from being voted because they are inactives is scummy.

Also, Unless I were to look and see that he hadn't been on since May 19th as the mod said, Going off of the information I had at the time, It's a good vote to get conversation started.

Well then, The only reason you would withhold that kind of information would be if you were scum, If you were town you'd have no reason to with hold that information. Especially as so early in the game you could not possibly have any cop intelligence that would be a reason to hide such information.

UNVOTE: ButtonsUNVOTE:

VOTE: Vash
Explained above.

You know, I do kind of consider making votecounts somewhat impersonating the mod... I'll leave the mod to decide if it is or not, but frankly, I do think that is the case. If it isn't, it's borderline.

[The Acting Method]

EBWODP:
UNVOTE: TBM

VOTE: Vash
Reasons explained in above post.

[The Acting Method]

Vash, fail to see how my story changed on my vote for the slot TBM filled... I voted for someone I felt was lurking/inactive for the reason that I explained,

And Buttonmen, While you have a point, the reaction caused by voting for a "Dead Slot" can also be very telling... For example, someone turning my single vote into a bandwagon would have made me suspicious, Why do that so early in the game? But that is theory

Jumping on someone for seemingly no explainable reason is also scummy, which is why both you and Vash are scummy to me.

But since you want to actually talk the game, why don't you answer Quid's question which is what I meant by explain what you meant by that last post... Maybe you misinterpreted it because you have a high and mighty opinion of yourself or maybe you are trying to hide the fact that you have no greater reason than the vote I made for Your slot (which actually is a stronger reason as far as I'm concerned.)

Now having read your response, your case is essentially based on one post which he has stated you misinterpreted (and general consensus sees it that way.) Your purkle one actually holds a little more wait in your minor point vs his main one.

You are right in one aspect Vash... Inactives are worse... And when part of the meta from the site you came from doesn't allow for replacements too much (seriously, The Mafia playing community where I came from means that too much inactivity will kill a game by day 2 if the Actives kill each other off consistantly.)

Lurkers are better only because you can actually encourage them to vote.

I have to say, my town read is quid right now, with Tierce leaning town and all others Null or leaning scum, This is of course off of the top of my head and I'd have to review. Vash is my #1 scum and Buttons is #2 choice, though he is slowly changing that impression and I will review ISO's to make a more clear read set...

[The Acting Method]

I'm done, I've said my piece. Just you requested it the first time while I was typing up my last post so I wanted to get it out...

That's probably what he meant by the May 19th thing, but that information was revealed AFTER I voted... Not before.

So now please give the reasons you believe in those reads or frankly, you prove yourself scum to me even more... (That's to you Vash)

Agreement with Quid in general...

Oh, not that it really matters much, but I am willing to provide a few links to my past games on my old site...

However, the site requires you to register for it before you can see any of it, so keep that in mind if you do want to see them...

[The Acting Method]

I believe I've stated my reasonings for possibly having a town read on Tierce earlier,

However, I have most definitely stated that I'm reading through the ISO's to get a better handle on the game and my reads.

Please explain why you feel that refusing to give a reason for suspecting someone and not giving a reason as to why they are sure it's one of two possible scum pairings is not scummy Blast.

Now I'm going to go read through the ISO's, though from my earlier skim through,

purkle and blastoide have shown an alarming lack of game related content...
Vash being the only other person who has come close.

[The Acting Method]

Vash, RVS ended Ages ago...

It ended about when Buttonmen replaced in...

You had your random vote.

Stop trying to lie to me and say your vote on me was random.

[The Acting Method]

Oh, well I got far, far more from your indignance at my voting an inactive... for you see... That makes me think that your buddy is an inactive, or WAS inactive... Because you see, only scum say that suggesting a inactive lynch is scummy.

[The Acting Method]

And I've already explained why I disagree... Or would you like to join the forum I came from and get first hand evidence of what I'm talking about?

[The Acting Method]

_purkle_
1. RVS, best reason for RVSing me related to my name ever.
2. This doesn't sound like he's talking it as an RVS, sounds more like it's a sarcastic comment about quid's comment about his not posting.
3. He considers us still in RVS, mentions a friendly conversation about the weather in Ireland and then brings up vash...

And that's the entirety of his posts... I have a null read here, not surprising this early in the game but I cannot tell if he is scum or town. But I'm leaning scum

Blastoide
1. Excited, emphasizes Vash vote, makes a point to mention "random reason at first"
2. clarifys the gender of Vash.
3. Responds to a query by me about his random vote as there was only two players with the letter B, claims to be sometimes conceited.
4. Answers questions.
5. Asks me about Defending Tierce.
6. Accepts answer I gave but points out Tierce's actions. But points out why he got that impression.
7. Unvotes vash as "random voting time is over" he thinks.
8. gives another example.
9. Apologizes when bad linking is pointed out.
10. Thanks those who corrected him.
11. Like most of the others, is unaware that button had answered my question (however mistaking my exact meaning.) and waits.
12. Votes me because he doesn't see my reason for voting Vash and my statement of a Tierce Town read without giving a reason...

I'm slightly leaning town, here, but feels like alot of fluff, little comment on game.

brundibar
1. Obvious joke with random vote.
2. Question to mod.
3. Question to players.
4. Fluff
5. Answers question.
6. Ask Tierce for reasons for vote.
7. Goes over essentially what I just said.
8. Asks reason behind my vote.
9. accepts my statement as to my reason.
10. feels like Tierce is asking questions and making accusiations without following up... will look into that at that point.

I'm getting a town feeling here. See comments on blastoise.

Greywing
1. Random vote.
2. Gives time zone and responds to Tierce's explination for vote.
3. Responds to Tierces question. Questions quid about post 39, pointing out one hasn't posted and others have given less content... Did quid respond? will check, if not quid, please do answer.
4. Asks Tierce about Town read from three posts. continues discussion with quid, jokingly replys to quid's apology?

Town, you could post more, but when you are posting you are bringing up good points and thoughts.

quidagismedice
1. Random vote, gives some suggested nicknames, answers question and adds another, asks tierce a question.
2. Tells Tierce to have fun in the country where he's from. Fluff.
3. Thinks Tierces reasoning works better for Vash, but because purkle's been silent keeps his vote.
4. responds to a question from Greywing? that I forgot about... May have asker wrong will check, possibly at Purkle...
5. Responds to both Greywing (first two) and purkle (last three, despite mishap labeling last two as Greywing.)
6. Repeats my request.
7. Apologizes for afore mentioned mishap.
8. How did I miss him noting the explination TBM gave? probably was posting my response and wasn't paying attention... Though admittedly, I wanted a better explination from TBM, which he has since given.
9. Responds to 67 and goes back a little.
10. Askes for explination of Vash's sudden vote.
11. reminds blast that his link is broke, points out Tierce's chumminess.
12. What Does Vash infer from posting vote counts? And then points out how the votecount was the body of his post and how it wasn't a good thing.
13. Gives Blastoise advice on linking posts.
14. Straight out tells Vash that if he has a good reason to believe these reads he should give it. Something we were all saying that were more active.
15. Questions 92 and dissagrees with lurking/inactivity arguement... Also calls out Vash for refusing to take part in discussion.
16. most recent post of Vash? shows some scumhunting.But what is making you think is scummy in the first place.
17. Asks Buttons why he thinks Tierce and purkle are scum.
18. Thinks Button's Tierce case is weak, purkle case isn't too bad, but would have liked the reasons sooner... Asks vash for answer to the same question, and why he thinks it's TAM+Tierce or TAM+Buttons.
19. Votes Vash and asks for reads and start posting instead of continuing a debate which was unneccessary. (And still is the entire basis for your case on me as my story has pretty much been, lurking and inactivity are both anti town and acceptable votes on d1.)
20. Thanks Buttons and basically says Vash's behavior is a liability if we reach LyLo. Also his refusal to give information is frustrating.

I like what he's been doing, would like to see some reads, pretty much town to me... Actually. Let's make this offical: Town.

TheButtonmen
1. basically announcing his arrival.
2. Automatically suspects Tierce for asking "Who do you think is scum" (essentially) to Greywing after being singled out.
3. Tierce asking him the same question and a post from purkle to postulate they are the scum team.
4. Gives reasoning for why he voted Tierce, which feels weak and stretching.
5. Continues pressuring Tierce.
6. Says Votes mean nothing, actions count. Seems to be making a mountain out of a weak case.
7. Says there is nothing to elaborate on in post 49... He suggests how to deal with posts.
8. Refers me to above comment. Scoff at Blastoides...
9. Asks me to stop continually demanding things and make a case.
10. Tells Vash to give him the links.
11. Throws a random votecount, sole body of post
12. Gets after me for my views on Inactives/Lurkers, and then the rules (seeing as I have asked that they not post votecounts as that feels like mod imitating to me.)
13. Asks that we get going on the game.
14. Actually gives a little explination.
15. Bitches about VashvsMe and sets some things straight.

Hmmm, I'm calling null here, there are things here I feel are townie, things here I feel are antitown.

Tierce
1. Standard IC post, taken from Thor mostly.
2. Responds to Quid's questions and votes.
3. Some light discussion and some game discussion.
4. Asks Greywing who is scum.
5. Asks brundibar what makes him feel like my switch was bad.
6. Asks buttons if he is scum (wait, I got something wrong then here in Buttons... misread on my part.)
7. Confused by Buttons wording, claims townread on Greywing and states that he wants to hear more from it.
8. Asks about commenting on his read having any advantage when it's still his strongest read. Says he was never accusing Greywing of not scumhunting, just wanting more.
9. Expresses confusal and calls me obv. Town, Also points out that he asked a question, and didn't push for anything further after he replied to it...

I'm leaning town here, but not strong enough to say for certain.

Vash
1. Random vote.
2. site experience... doesn't answer timezone question..
3. Votecount and Vote.
4. uses the word NIGHT 1... Sorry, that does not sound town to me... Night one means Mafia. Gives abstract statements. Calls me defensive. Sorry, you have not seen me defensive.
5. Says that it's still day one, misses what I said. Askes me a question. Offers links.
6. Conteracting what I said and says scummiest thing one can do is vote for inactives. (Will point out now that if you actually read the thread and order of things it may become clear that I am clearly refferring to my thought process at the time with my post. At the time I made my post, the mod had not noticed/made it known when TBM's predecessor made his last post.) Tosses TBM links.
7. Does an edit by double post saying semantics and wordplay are scummy. (Maybe not where you come from, but where I come from, saying something like night one instead of day one is a scum slip.)
8. Claims reasoning has changed... No it hasn't...
9. Says lurkers do not equal inactives. (Both hurt the game and town. Both should be eliminated.)
10. Explains what he considers difference and explains questions.
11. Starts throwing things at me. I recommend you read my meta...
12. Starts speaking for himself... kp = kill post? Seems scummy terminology to me.
13. Finally gives reasonings... I'll break down his case up to his reasonings at the time in a bit...

Reading: Scum or leaning scum, the unwillingness to share his reasonings and his gloating are very anti town in my eyes.


So, Next is an overall refutal of Vash's very silly an ill proposed case (including why I feel voting an inactive is not scummy behavior and can only conclude it should be a null tell as because you and I have different forum backgrounds and thus, for me it is perfectly normal for town to do such things as vote inactives.)

But overall Reads:

SCUM
Vash: As I explained above and something just seems too self assured, and not in the confident way, but the "I'm scum but No one ever gets me when I'm scum" way...
_purkle_ :As explained above
TBM: Pure Null read.
brudibar: Leaning Town
Blastoide: Leaning Town I'm not completely confident on these two, but so far they seem on the up and up.
Tierce: I'm Leaning town on him.
Greywing: I'm pretty sure he's town, he just needs to post more.
Quid: If he is not town, well I'm going to be shocked.
TOWN

Next up, my rebuttal of Vash's case...

[The Acting Method]

My forum works differently as well tam, but alas, we are not on those forums:

Post #25, Tam looks like he's fishing with both
brund and blast, puts the idea out there that they could be partners
(Ironically without explaining) and questions blast about a vote because someone
lacks letters. To me it feels like he's not directly going after anyone but
just puts names out there to see if anyone goes after the bait.

Post#29, Tam just sweeps the bit about blast under the rug after blasts responce and no bites
Post #32 Tam defends tierce.
Post #34 Tam votes for inactive, I've already explained why I think this is scummy behaviour.
#35+36 brund asks why, and tierce jumps right in for Tam.

Post#40 The comment about the inactive turning up scum, it just fits
in a scenario like I mentioned, where person 1 and inactive person 2 are
mafia together, and person 1 votes person 2 so they look more innocent and get their nightkill
Then you have a patsy to put the blame on if they do come up mafia which woud have
been brund (In a scenario where it's TAM+Button)

Around post #50 Teirce and Button are getting some questions going and there again is TAM with his
influince, Directing the focus where he wants it

after all this Teirce calls TAM an obv townread.

Post #66, Blast actually calls what I've been thinking, which makes me feel better about
it since others feel the same

Those were my reasonings at the time, more-a-less.

So for the sake of discussion, your inactivity voter scumtell is moot because most likely our home forum cultures clash enough where to me it's town to vote that way. (as I explained)

Post 25: I type as I think, I honestly was trying to find out if my self admitted unlikely proposition was indeed fact. Of course I don't believe it would be, but I am trying to find out. Also I was wondering if Blast would respond under light pressure with questioning. He passed which is why in post 29 I "sweep it under the rug" because it was answered satisfactorily enough that it was not a point worth persuing as an actual scumtell.
32: Would have said that had it been anyone else... Nothing special there.
Post 34: Invalidated due too separate theologies (which I do have evidence that I feel as described about inactives.)
Please explain how my post 51 (which I believe you are referring too) is scummy? It was a valid question to bring up.
The obv. townread confused me too, and I'm personally waiting to hear his answer to that question since it's been brought up and it's not yet been answered.
66: Honestly when he said that, I hadn't really thought of what I was doing as defending Tierce so much... (also, Tierce and I probably can't both be mafia BECAUSE of the interactions. It would be scummy in a game like this to behave that way and thus only one of us could be mafia and that's if either of us are.)

[The Acting Method]

Oh no, while that's the reason I stated, I point out that he purposefully carried out the discussion of it much longer than neccessary. I voted an inactive, the inactive was replaced and Vash started beating a dead horse... It wasn't the initial complaint itself, (which might I add he took forever to get to) But the fact that he didn't drop it.

Also, as I explained later (maybe even up above) saying it's out of the question day one is scummy (to me) as I explained.

Also, The fact that he CONTINUED the discussion was what I was getting at, And that is scummy... the fact that he got so worked up about me voting for an inactive, that became active slot not two posts later is what caused the scum read, especially as I said pretty early on when questioned that I dislike inactives: they kill games, and I prefer lynching them than say a town.

Also, Somewhere he said an inactive mafia is less dangerous than an active one and should be ignored... No it shouldn't... EVER be ignored. And frankly, an inactive townie is actually anti town, especially when said townie could very well be lurking. (Something that Vash's vote for inactive case is based on is the fact that the mod said in post 44 that it turns out ififi hadn't posted since May 19th, but when I posted the vote in post 34, for all I or anyone else knew he could be lurking.

Also Tierce, would appreciate you making sure the entire thread doesn't contain an explanation of something before you make a vote based on it... Unless you feel that the statement itself was truly so scummy as to warrant a vote.

Also, I posted my reads and so far I have no response that makes me uberly suspicious of anyone besides of how I posted things,

And again if you would like an idea of my overall meta, I'm willing to link it providing that you're willing to join another site to read it.


Quid, I noticed your response later and commented on it... When I do PbpA ISO's I literally do a train of thought.

[The Acting Method]

@ Brundi, when you have gotten caught up could you please provide your reads with reasoning.

@ Blast: Reads and reasoning Please?

@ Purkle: Are you scum and if not, why are you posting little to no game content?

@ quid: I think we can all say that when you wrote that post we were all pretty pissed off, myself no exception. I personally feel that your statement was in line with the frustation being called but that is my personal opinion...

[The Acting Method]

Now, in the hopes of actually getting something happening other than Vash's bullshit, here's some questions I want answered:

Blastoide: Please construct for me what you think scum-TAM's motivations for the various actions he's taken so far are.

The question I think Quid is referring to Blast.

[The Acting Method]

No one, but if you look just a line or two down in that very same post I say,

frankly, an inactive townie is actually anti town,

And I go on to explain why. if you are going to question me on something, perhaps you might want to make sure I don't already address it in the same post.

So, if a inactive townie is pretty much the ultimate anti-town, would it not fall to reason that I would not count them in my definition of "Town" which is co-related with Activity...

[The Acting Method]

Vash. This is why I think you are scummy, you are completely basing your case on me on ONE comment that you think is a insta-no-doubts-about-it scumtell.

However, frankly by going after inactives you can get reactions from those more active in response, you for instance have essentially tunneled me to the point of being scum tunnling refusing any argument that I might put up to the contrary of your beliefs in your attempt to fabricate scumminess.

How about you take your attentions off of me and on to those more deserving.

@purkel: Reads and what do you think of Vash's behavior as well as Mine?

@Grey: Elaborate of that first part of your last post please.

[The Acting Method]

Blast, that's an explination of your reasons behind your read... Not your thoughts on why a "Scum"me would act the way I have...

To make the comment in post 91 clearer, I was calling Buttonmen a hypocrite, The reasons he was voting Tierce and putting pressure on him (which in of itself is not a bad thing) However his attitude was what he was claiming Tierce was doing. That's why I found it suspicious.

110 is in response to Buttons and was more in reference to Vash, Because Vash had been not really answering a question that Quid was acting, that's why in post 111, I act like they aren't talking about me... because Vash was the focus of Quid's post. See Vote count above and read the post. So you are incorrect there as he's not referring to me at all.

After your comment on 110, I'm confused as hell and don't really understand your read so you may want to double check everything around that so you have your facts straight.

[The Acting Method]

Welcome innocent,

When you get the chance could you answer the question I asked purkle?

And yes that is essentially a game where we are luggage...

[The Acting Method]

I actually do agree that I was impressed with his reasoning, however, there are a few places (understandably, because he's a newb) where he makes a very clear misinterpretation (110 and my response, how is 110 about me?).

But definitely, I would say that Blast is probably town.

[The Acting Method]

QUADRUPLE POST!

innocentvillager:

Welcome! I should warn you that your replacee's scumminess still stands to me, not asking you to defend it, just saying that it was such that I can't write it off now that he's out. Look forward to your contributions.

I have to say this but I do agree, when a replacement comes in and you think their slot is scummy, don't just drop the read because the slot's been replaced, the person coming in has to earn the slot a town read... Fortunately it's early on enough where this is not going to be as hard to do as say replacing into a lylo situation (which by the way, lylo is the worst place to replace into, and one of the few times where I would actually recommend waiting to vote until after the replacement is caught up and has given their thoughts... And even then I'm iffy about it.)

[The Acting Method]

I really don't have much to say right now... I'm sure new questions will come to me once some are answered...

[The Acting Method]

Innocent, remind me if anyone asked you to give your thoughts on purkle's play because I don't recall anyone asking for it, but thanks...
You just single handedly made your slot more scummy, and if I could remember where I saw it, I'd quote the tell you just committed...
But instead I'll tell you that essentially, If a replacement comes in and comments on his predecessor's play and analyzes it, they are scum.

I've quoted the part of your post that I'm referring to that commits the tell.

Hi guys!
Here are my thoughts on purkle's play:

I agree that purkle done anything to help the town, and why he went so long without posting is beyond me. I realize that purkle has been fosed a bit for his lack of reads and some of his sarcastic tone. He doesn't seem like the type of person who is new to the game with little to say on the overall progression of the game. I can see possible reasons why he has been fosed. While first two posts seem fine, his third one disturbs me a little bit:

I have still to see content from you apart from that one question, which I don't think tells us an awful lot. It seems to be a)intended as nothing more than a justification for your quietness & b) very open for scum to do the same (assuming you are town).

Interesting line to take when we are classed as still being in the RVS until all participants have posted & joined in IMHO. Made even more interesting by the fact 50% of your own posts so far have contained a RV and discussion about the weather.

Remind me again how the weather helps find scum?

Also no comment from yourself yet on Vash, who has posted no content and offered a weak excuse for staying away from the thread. Where's your consistency?

His attack on quidag almost seems like an overreaction to an early RVS vote. "Where's your consistency" also gives me a strange vibe, feeling the need to bring up Vash's lack of posts.

I honestly can't really defend purkle except by saying that I will try to help the town in any way that I can. His third post was just awful.

Tierce, I think it was a game with you in it that I saw it mentioned? Maybe it got lost in the crash though...

[The Acting Method]

I'll readthrough it again... I posted my thoughts a few pages ago on everyone's ISO's.

[The Acting Method]

How can I give any information when no one was asking me questions?

In any case, I refer you to my stance on inactivity... I'd rather be seen as "active lurking" and at least try to get things done by getting questions answered, then let something slip.

[The Acting Method]

By unnoticed. Just like you did my leaving out two words.

[The Acting Method]

By unnoticed. Just like you did my leaving out two words.

Already explained.

[The Acting Method]

Quid, Correction on 183 and the explanation, you've got the first part right but in 183, I was saying (and the way I worded it came off weird in retrospect) "just like you did just now by catching my mistake in leaving out two words."

In other words, An active group of players makes it harder for scum to be unnoticed, an inactive group or a group with lurkers makes it easier for them to slip by.

Because with activity you can easily see those mistakes that could be scum tells. Just as Quid caught the mistake and questioned me to clarify.

Makes sense?

[The Acting Method]

I'm still confused... I didn't really see it as a debate, and I didn't see me or Tierce buddying each other there, just taking similar trains of thought and reading each other the same way... Could you give me an quote recap of the section you are referring to so that I know I have the right incident in mind, Also explain where your theory is supported by the sections. As I feel you are answering without being specific...

[The Acting Method]

EBWODP: Also, doesn't free for all mean all three were arguing with each other? How does that work with the rest of your description...

Also, Your comment about your astonishing abundance of null reads disturbs me, as that could be a Mafia excuse to find an innocent townie and take him down or change your postion at any time.

[The Acting Method]

Brundi could you explain your case on Button clearly?

And Vash. Can you explain why you think performing a no lynch is advisable?

[The Acting Method]

Meh on the buddying, in both instances quoted, I'm mentioning a name as part of my push on Button's because his Tierce case is the focus of my pushing.

Trust me, I was trying to figure out how such behavior was scummy (Tierce's simple question) I was pushing harder because I was focusing my efforts.

Also since when was I at L-1? No one told me or I would have claimed... Since that is protocol for putting someone at L-1 as memory serves... I only ever counted 3 votes on me... There are 9 players, 5 would be the appropriate lynch number and no one ever had 4 votes on me.

Button, I saw that AFTER I posted... Notice how I didn't comment on Greywing's thoughts in that either?

But yeah, Tierce pretty much explained why no lynches are a bad idea...

I've seen it work... once, but that was because the Doctor was alive and the Cop was known and number 1 priority... Town won eventually... (I think)

[The Acting Method]

Dear me... could you link the post? because I don't recall ever having four votes...

But in any case. I'm keeping my vote on Vash for now, I'm only really inclined to change my vote to innocent at present.

[The Acting Method]

EBWODP: Okay How did I not notice that, I would have claimed then...

Vash, you do realize this doesn't really help your case that you are town that you pointed that out to me...

Both scum had to have been on my wagon. Scum would have hammered me otherwise...

Meaning You, Innocent, Blastoise, and Tierce all could be scum.

[The Acting Method]

Trust me the latter would be highly unlikely... Scum wouldn't not notice they were at L-1... Scum would be more focused on defending themselves than going after others.

[The Acting Method]

Tierce, it's been awhile since I've been put at L-1.

Also on Vash, now it's mainly gut, And the fact that he promised a detailed analysis and I haven't seen much more than maybe a couple of questions from him since so he's feeling kind of off to me.

Plus as I pointed out above, I know I'm town, the fact that I'm still alive with no intent to hammer, means both scum were already on the wagon.

How about you lot let me respond before you make votes?

And also, how about you acknowledge the fact that I haven't been heavily pushing his lynch for like three pages or so...

My votes on him still I believe because I want to see more of Innocent before I go after my second scum read.

[The Acting Method]

As far as I'm concerned Vash, that's a promise to give a highly detailed case or at least multiple questions in one post...

So the current case against me is that I have a scum read on someone you read as newb town am I right?

[The Acting Method]

Still, he hasn't given ANY form of analysis. Which was my point in the first place.

@Mod: Vote count please?

[The Acting Method]

Oh, I have a different meaning when I put words together... Sorry for assuming we had the same assumption of what to expect when certain things are said... I was expecting a bunch of new content, because by analyzing you should be finding new content and being able to give reads...

Have you even given those?

[The Acting Method]

Waiting for Vash to give reads with explinations, as far as I'm concerned he's posting little to no game related content despite saying he was doing an analysis.

Surely you can see how that doesn't compute.

[The Acting Method]

You're waiting for quid and Brundi then.

I've explained it and you've called it weak.

Okay, let me explain, Vash has constantly throughout the entire game been avoiding giving content unless pressured into it. He's not giving reasons, he's not giving reads, and has only asked two questions. That's it.

I'll give him one newb point: No Lynch. Okay, that does seem more newbtown than anything else.

So how is refusing to give information town? (And if you say Power Role, I'm not talking role claims, I'm talking explanation of votes, giving reads, ect.) He spent half of his posts leading a bandwagon on me over a theory difference (which I can support I have always disliked inactivity/lurking)

[The Acting Method]

I haven't refused to do an analysis, I just pointed out the fact that I obviously didn't promise one. I've asked more than two questions TAM, some of which you've ignored.

I'd really like a reply to this Question I asked earlier:

You also said if you knew you were L-1, you would have claimed. Claiming VT would have no point, so it sounds like you're hinting you're a PR. Why would you do that when you are no longer in an L-1 position? Are you saying you're a PR? If you're not, why would you phrase it like that?

How many examples do I need to point out of you twisting words, misinturperating words, missing posts, avoiding questions, changing your thoughts at whim and lacking in evidence for your convictions TAM?

Hmm, I know how I'm missed these, I spent the entire next post focusing on the posts after it which were the only ones I'd seen.

Misinterpreting words: Bad Scum Tell.
Missing posts: As someone else said I'm pretty sure, bad scum tell
When have I changed my thoughts at a whim?
Last one: Bad scum tell.

So let's see, every time you've pointed out something, you've done the same thing to my words ect. So therefore that's calling the kettle black isn't it?

No, Vash I would claim if I was vanilla town. I'd be less inclined to claim if any other role, unless I felt it absolutely necessary. (meaning that they were absolutely dead set that I was scum.)
Oh and Vash, I'm not saying I'm PR... I'll count a second newb town in my personal newb town count.
Keep it up, you might actually convince me you are newb town.

Because I wasn't claiming. And I wasn't trying to claim. Believe me, when I hint at PR... I hint at PR.

Maybe I should link you guys to my games on my old site...

[The Acting Method]

Button, I saw that AFTER I posted... Notice how I didn't comment on Greywing's thoughts in that either?

What in the actual hells?

You don't read the thread before posting? You just read until you find something you can respond to then post!?

That's either atrocious or incredibly scummy and I need to read your past games to decide which.

Both scum had to have been on my wagon. Scum would have hammered me otherwise...

No.

Trust me the latter would be highly unlikely... Scum wouldn't not notice they were at L-1... Scum would be more focused on defending themselves than going after others.

Once again you deliberately WIFOM forcing me to play dumb or scum again.

No, Vash I would claim if I was vanilla town. I'd be less inclined to claim if any other role, unless I felt it absolutely necessary. (meaning that they were absolutely dead set that I was scum.)
Oh and Vash, I'm not saying I'm PR... I'll count a second newb town in my personal newb town count.
Keep it up, you might actually convince me you are newb town.

Because I wasn't claiming. And I wasn't trying to claim. Believe me, when I hint at PR... I hint at PR.

What in the flapjack flipping hamurger jesus is this!?

Stop WIFOMing every time someone pressures you.

No, I was off, got back on, noticed I had new posts in my email notification, clicked the link, saw the last part of page eight, responded to it. posted it and realized the other posts. I see a new post, see if I need to respond to it, then read the rest of the thread to make sure I didn't miss anything. Also will point out that in the case you mentioned, The part I missed was all on the next page I believe.

That wasn't WIFOMing in the last one...

Read some of my past games, my PR role play I end up being obvious... (then again, I think we've lost most of my play on MafiaScum.)

I will respond to the rest in a bit... Just wanted to get this one out of the way.

[The Acting Method]

Okay, so there was nothing else for me to respond to at present.

Would like to hear the cases of Quid and Brundi against Vash as requested as we've just been beating mine like a dead dog.

[The Acting Method]

Why is this game suddenly silent?

Hmmm... I think I need to do another ISO/pbpa to see if anything new pops up.

[The Acting Method]

There are some, but you couldn't really get a perfect read as me this game is far more rational and logic based. And I don't really believe in newbtown reads, newb yes, but newbtown moves could equally be newbscum moves and thus my thoughts still stand. However, my Power Role play and my Scum play are Incredibly similar and it's part of the reason I joined the site in the first place.

[The Acting Method]

Okay, so now I wait to see what Quid's thoughts will be when he's all caught up, and wait for any other comment sections to happen.

[The Acting Method]

I'm Vanilla Town.

@ TBM: What would you rather I make a case that everyone will discount because "He's obviously newb Town"

Also, I'm disappointed that no one has challenged my assertion that a "newbtown" read cannot exist.

You're lynching me, for a reason that I don't believe in? And not questioning why I don't believe in such things? Pity.

[The Acting Method]

So you have only one null read?

And what's your case against me?

For the others it's that I don't see you as newbtown. I'm sorry, I don't do newbtown reads, "newbtown" mistakes could be easily be made by a newb no matter what alignment.

As for you, the only case you have ever offered was essentially "he voted for an inactive. He's scum" I'll laugh when you are proven wrong.

[The Acting Method]

Welcome Fancy, will be waiting to hear your fresh thoughts.

[The Acting Method]

What can I defend against? I have nothing to say, no data, ABSOLUTELY NIL!

I've made it. Look in somewhere in the past 12 pages. It's in there.

It's not a strong case, even taking out newbtells it's not a strong case.

But your case seems to pull into this sentance "He disagrees with us on Vash read. He must be scum"

Or, I just feel like he's the scummiest of a bunch who is realitively town.

Now I could change my vote to Innocent who is giving practically very little input and I want to see more from.

I'm not about to go realiterate a case from five or six pages ago. Which as far as I'm concerned is still valid.

I've said everything I could possibly say and frankly, I KNOW you will find at least one scum on my lynch. Possibly both.

Hell, Actually this bandwagon on me is scummy and here's why: I hadn't been actively pushing a Vash lynch for a few pages. Then suddenly someone goes and says "How can TAM not see that Vash is newb town?" and votes me. Then everyone else jumps on like little sheep. Never once listening to my statement that "I DON'T DO NEWBTOWN READS, I DO NEWB READS" So that's the entire reason the lynch on me is going on...

I'm not stalling because I have nothing to say and you aren't giving anything for me to defend myself from that I haven't already said! So, either give me something to go on...

or abandon this foolish wagon over me feeling like newbtown doesn't exist. ONLY ONE THING HE'S DONE IS REMOTELY CONSIDERED NEWBTOWN IF YOU WANT THAT TO EXIST: That would be his No Lynch idea...

Other than that, I have nothing further to say untill our replacement gives us his thoughts and we can start a new discussion.

[The Acting Method]

Didn't I JUST ANSWER YOU THAT?

Unless you want a rehash of things I've already said. I have no cases to make that haven't already been made.

Now. What I would like to see is someone give me an argument that Vash is town that is not supported by "NEWBTOWN MOVES ALL OVER"

Or better yet, a decent case against me other than "HE CAN'T SEE THAT VASH IS NEWBTOWN DESPITE THE FACT HE SAID HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN NEWBTOWN READS"

Instead what am I getting? "Make a case on someone you haven't changed your vote on because you can't think of a better option?"

You know what, I'll go with my second scumread then.

vote: Innocent Villiager

case, reasons: Hasn't been talking much, been putting off talking and making excuses and the Amished tell.

Oh and Buttonman. Do you want to REALLY see me complaining/pissed off/not making a case? look at the few games that are still on mafiascum or ask me to show you my meta (actually I think I linked it in the newb game that still exists in full) I'm not kidding when I say I'm playing far different here in general than I have in the past. And if you look back into my games it strikes out me being scum or a power role.

[The Acting Method]

Might want to triple check what you typed on Greywing Fancy. But can you give more reasons please. I'd love to see more detail from you on the three you mentioned as your most likely scum.

[The Acting Method]

EBWODP: Might want to triple check when you spell Greywing's name, Fancy.

What the hell was that typing... I'll have to look over my reads again. Might explain it.

[The Acting Method]

_purkle_
1. RVS, best reason for RVSing me related to my name ever.
2. This doesn't sound like he's talking it as an RVS, sounds more like it's a sarcastic comment about quid's comment about his not posting.
3. He considers us still in RVS, mentions a friendly conversation about the weather in Ireland and then brings up vash...

And that's the entirety of his posts... I have a null read here, not surprising this early in the game but I cannot tell if he is scum or town. But I'm leaning scum

Blastoide
1. Excited, emphasizes Vash vote, makes a point to mention "random reason at first"
2. clarifys the gender of Vash.
3. Responds to a query by me about his random vote as there was only two players with the letter B, claims to be sometimes conceited.
4. Answers questions.
5. Asks me about Defending Tierce.
6. Accepts answer I gave but points out Tierce's actions. But points out why he got that impression.
7. Unvotes vash as "random voting time is over" he thinks.
8. gives another example.
9. Apologizes when bad linking is pointed out.
10. Thanks those who corrected him.
11. Like most of the others, is unaware that button had answered my question (however mistaking my exact meaning.) and waits.
12. Votes me because he doesn't see my reason for voting Vash and my statement of a Tierce Town read without giving a reason...

I'm slightly leaning town, here, but feels like alot of fluff, little comment on game.

brundibar
1. Obvious joke with random vote.
2. Question to mod.
3. Question to players.
4. Fluff
5. Answers question.
6. Ask Tierce for reasons for vote.
7. Goes over essentially what I just said.
8. Asks reason behind my vote.
9. accepts my statement as to my reason.
10. feels like Tierce is asking questions and making accusiations without following up... will look into that at that point.

I'm getting a town feeling here. See comments on blastoise.

Greywing
1. Random vote.
2. Gives time zone and responds to Tierce's explination for vote.
3. Responds to Tierces question. Questions quid about post 39, pointing out one hasn't posted and others have given less content... Did quid respond? will check, if not quid, please do answer.
4. Asks Tierce about Town read from three posts. continues discussion with quid, jokingly replys to quid's apology?

Town, you could post more, but when you are posting you are bringing up good points and thoughts.

quidagismedice
1. Random vote, gives some suggested nicknames, answers question and adds another, asks tierce a question.
2. Tells Tierce to have fun in the country where he's from. Fluff.
3. Thinks Tierces reasoning works better for Vash, but because purkle's been silent keeps his vote.
4. responds to a question from Greywing? that I forgot about... May have asker wrong will check, possibly at Purkle...
5. Responds to both Greywing (first two) and purkle (last three, despite mishap labeling last two as Greywing.)
6. Repeats my request.
7. Apologizes for afore mentioned mishap.
8. How did I miss him noting the explination TBM gave? probably was posting my response and wasn't paying attention... Though admittedly, I wanted a better explination from TBM, which he has since given.
9. Responds to 67 and goes back a little.
10. Askes for explination of Vash's sudden vote.
11. reminds blast that his link is broke, points out Tierce's chumminess.
12. What Does Vash infer from posting vote counts? And then points out how the votecount was the body of his post and how it wasn't a good thing.
13. Gives Blastoise advice on linking posts.
14. Straight out tells Vash that if he has a good reason to believe these reads he should give it. Something we were all saying that were more active.
15. Questions 92 and dissagrees with lurking/inactivity arguement... Also calls out Vash for refusing to take part in discussion.
16. most recent post of Vash? shows some scumhunting.But what is making you think is scummy in the first place.
17. Asks Buttons why he thinks Tierce and purkle are scum.
18. Thinks Button's Tierce case is weak, purkle case isn't too bad, but would have liked the reasons sooner... Asks vash for answer to the same question, and why he thinks it's TAM+Tierce or TAM+Buttons.
19. Votes Vash and asks for reads and start posting instead of continuing a debate which was unneccessary. (And still is the entire basis for your case on me as my story has pretty much been, lurking and inactivity are both anti town and acceptable votes on d1.)
20. Thanks Buttons and basically says Vash's behavior is a liability if we reach LyLo. Also his refusal to give information is frustrating.

I like what he's been doing, would like to see some reads, pretty much town to me... Actually. Let's make this offical: Town.

TheButtonmen
1. basically announcing his arrival.
2. Automatically suspects Tierce for asking "Who do you think is scum" (essentially) to Greywing after being singled out.
3. Tierce asking him the same question and a post from purkle to postulate they are the scum team.
4. Gives reasoning for why he voted Tierce, which feels weak and stretching.
5. Continues pressuring Tierce.
6. Says Votes mean nothing, actions count. Seems to be making a mountain out of a weak case.
7. Says there is nothing to elaborate on in post 49... He suggests how to deal with posts.
8. Refers me to above comment. Scoff at Blastoides...
9. Asks me to stop continually demanding things and make a case.
10. Tells Vash to give him the links.
11. Throws a random votecount, sole body of post
12. Gets after me for my views on Inactives/Lurkers, and then the rules (seeing as I have asked that they not post votecounts as that feels like mod imitating to me.)
13. Asks that we get going on the game.
14. Actually gives a little explination.
15. Bitches about VashvsMe and sets some things straight.

Hmmm, I'm calling null here, there are things here I feel are townie, things here I feel are antitown.

Tierce
1. Standard IC post, taken from Thor mostly.
2. Responds to Quid's questions and votes.
3. Some light discussion and some game discussion.
4. Asks Greywing who is scum.
5. Asks brundibar what makes him feel like my switch was bad.
6. Asks buttons if he is scum (wait, I got something wrong then here in Buttons... misread on my part.)
7. Confused by Buttons wording, claims townread on Greywing and states that he wants to hear more from it.
8. Asks about commenting on his read having any advantage when it's still his strongest read. Says he was never accusing Greywing of not scumhunting, just wanting more.
9. Expresses confusal and calls me obv. Town, Also points out that he asked a question, and didn't push for anything further after he replied to it...

I'm leaning town here, but not strong enough to say for certain.

Vash
1. Random vote.
2. site experience... doesn't answer timezone question..
3. Votecount and Vote.
4. uses the word NIGHT 1... Sorry, that does not sound town to me... Night one means Mafia. Gives abstract statements. Calls me defensive. Sorry, you have not seen me defensive.
5. Says that it's still day one, misses what I said. Askes me a question. Offers links.
6. Conteracting what I said and says scummiest thing one can do is vote for inactives. (Will point out now that if you actually read the thread and order of things it may become clear that I am clearly refferring to my thought process at the time with my post. At the time I made my post, the mod had not noticed/made it known when TBM's predecessor made his last post.) Tosses TBM links.
7. Does an edit by double post saying semantics and wordplay are scummy. (Maybe not where you come from, but where I come from, saying something like night one instead of day one is a scum slip.)
8. Claims reasoning has changed... No it hasn't...
9. Says lurkers do not equal inactives. (Both hurt the game and town. Both should be eliminated.)
10. Explains what he considers difference and explains questions.
11. Starts throwing things at me. I recommend you read my meta...
12. Starts speaking for himself... kp = kill post? Seems scummy terminology to me.
13. Finally gives reasonings... I'll break down his case up to his reasonings at the time in a bit...

Reading: Scum or leaning scum, the unwillingness to share his reasonings and his gloating are very anti town in my eyes.


So, Next is an overall refutal of Vash's very silly an ill proposed case (including why I feel voting an inactive is not scummy behavior and can only conclude it should be a null tell as because you and I have different forum backgrounds and thus, for me it is perfectly normal for town to do such things as vote inactives.)

But overall Reads:

SCUM
Vash: As I explained above and something just seems too self assured, and not in the confident way, but the "I'm scum but No one ever gets me when I'm scum" way...
_purkle_ :As explained above
TBM: Pure Null read.
brudibar: Leaning Town
Blastoide: Leaning Town I'm not completely confident on these two, but so far they seem on the up and up.
Tierce: I'm Leaning town on him.
Greywing: I'm pretty sure he's town, he just needs to post more.
Quid: If he is not town, well I'm going to be shocked.
TOWN

Next up, my rebuttal of Vash's case...

My forum works differently as well tam, but alas, we are not on those forums:

Post #25, Tam looks like he's fishing with both
brund and blast, puts the idea out there that they could be partners
(Ironically without explaining) and questions blast about a vote because someone
lacks letters. To me it feels like he's not directly going after anyone but
just puts names out there to see if anyone goes after the bait.

Post#29, Tam just sweeps the bit about blast under the rug after blasts responce and no bites
Post #32 Tam defends tierce.
Post #34 Tam votes for inactive, I've already explained why I think this is scummy behaviour.
#35+36 brund asks why, and tierce jumps right in for Tam.

Post#40 The comment about the inactive turning up scum, it just fits
in a scenario like I mentioned, where person 1 and inactive person 2 are
mafia together, and person 1 votes person 2 so they look more innocent and get their nightkill
Then you have a patsy to put the blame on if they do come up mafia which woud have
been brund (In a scenario where it's TAM+Button)

Around post #50 Teirce and Button are getting some questions going and there again is TAM with his
influince, Directing the focus where he wants it

after all this Teirce calls TAM an obv townread.

Post #66, Blast actually calls what I've been thinking, which makes me feel better about
it since others feel the same

Those were my reasonings at the time, more-a-less.

So for the sake of discussion, your inactivity voter scumtell is moot because most likely our home forum cultures clash enough where to me it's town to vote that way. (as I explained)

Post 25: I type as I think, I honestly was trying to find out if my self admitted unlikely proposition was indeed fact. Of course I don't believe it would be, but I am trying to find out. Also I was wondering if Blast would respond under light pressure with questioning. He passed which is why in post 29 I "sweep it under the rug" because it was answered satisfactorily enough that it was not a point worth persuing as an actual scumtell.
32: Would have said that had it been anyone else... Nothing special there.
Post 34: Invalidated due too separate theologies (which I do have evidence that I feel as described about inactives.)
Please explain how my post 51 (which I believe you are referring too) is scummy? It was a valid question to bring up.
The obv. townread confused me too, and I'm personally waiting to hear his answer to that question since it's been brought up and it's not yet been answered.
66: Honestly when he said that, I hadn't really thought of what I was doing as defending Tierce so much... (also, Tierce and I probably can't both be mafia BECAUSE of the interactions. It would be scummy in a game like this to behave that way and thus only one of us could be mafia and that's if either of us are.)

Oh no, while that's the reason I stated, I point out that he purposefully carried out the discussion of it much longer than neccessary. I voted an inactive, the inactive was replaced and Vash started beating a dead horse... It wasn't the initial complaint itself, (which might I add he took forever to get to) But the fact that he didn't drop it.

Also, as I explained later (maybe even up above) saying it's out of the question day one is scummy (to me) as I explained.

Also, The fact that he CONTINUED the discussion was what I was getting at, And that is scummy... the fact that he got so worked up about me voting for an inactive, that became active slot not two posts later is what caused the scum read, especially as I said pretty early on when questioned that I dislike inactives: they kill games, and I prefer lynching them than say a town.

Also, Somewhere he said an inactive mafia is less dangerous than an active one and should be ignored... No it shouldn't... EVER be ignored. And frankly, an inactive townie is actually anti town, especially when said townie could very well be lurking. (Something that Vash's vote for inactive case is based on is the fact that the mod said in post 44 that it turns out ififi hadn't posted since May 19th, but when I posted the vote in post 34, for all I or anyone else knew he could be lurking.

Also Tierce, would appreciate you making sure the entire thread doesn't contain an explanation of something before you make a vote based on it... Unless you feel that the statement itself was truly so scummy as to warrant a vote.

Also, I posted my reads and so far I have no response that makes me uberly suspicious of anyone besides of how I posted things,

And again if you would like an idea of my overall meta, I'm willing to link it providing that you're willing to join another site to read it.


Quid, I noticed your response later and commented on it... When I do PbpA ISO's I literally do a train of thought.

Ahhh Found my Case on Vash... Notice how old it is.

Never mind the fact that He hasn't really posted ANY game related content despite saying he will do an analysis... Doesn't that mean finding information to use to build a case and then posting game related content to get things done?

Tierce, you literally did a 180 from the last time you gave a read on me. Explain your current read.

That goes for all of you. Stop trying to make me build a case and build one yourselves.

[The Acting Method]

I've moved it to innocent villiager's slot. Hopefully this one is more active.

But frankly it was originally more of a OMGWTF than a OMGUS, mainly because he refused to give a reason.

[The Acting Method]

Explain. Explain how it is newb town and not newb scum.

There is no such thing as newbtown tells/ newbscum tells.

[The Acting Method]

Welcome Arugula.

Now to go through and read do my ISO's...

See if anything new appears.

[The Acting Method]

Argula, so if you are sure I'm scum, explain why in detail and then vote me.

Secondly, you are replacing innocentvilliager I believe... The other replacement was for Quid I think...

[The Acting Method]

Okay All of you voting me...

I want a detailed case on why you think I'm scum. Like an actual case... The only one ever provided, I've countered.

Also @ Argula Why didn't you vote me if I'm scum?

[The Acting Method]

No. It matters because if the mod had corrected the mistake by sending the correct PM, Argula would have had knowledge of two players roles. And that could have affected the game.
And what the mod said.

Though it is a shame. Save for TBM, Arg was the first player to actually replace in then give a scum read on me.

I still want a decent case that isn't "He doesn't read Vash as n00btown" or "He believes in lynching inactives."

[The Acting Method]

I know your reasons Blast, I'm referring to the current bandwagon. Speaking of which, I'll have to reread again, but why did Tierce unvote me?

[The Acting Method]

EBWODP: Okay now I see the reason why.

[The Acting Method]

OK I'm done my reading.

General Stuff

My time zone is GMT+ 2.
My first language is English.
I've played a few random games offsite in various formats.

Game Related Stuff

- The wagon on TAM is based on nothing. He might be scum sure but I don't see a case.

- I see a genuine desire to catch scum from: TAM, Vash, Brundibar, TheButtonMen
- I agree with most of what InnocentVillager said. (not indicative either way)
- My subset of most likely scum is {GreyWing, Tierce, Blast} in that order.

Therefore

UNVOTE:
VOTE : GreyIce

Bolded his reads for you Blast.

At least what my interpretation is that Innocent is null to him, the first four are town to him, and the last three is his scum reads.

[The Acting Method]

Reasons please?

As I and others have said, so far my bandwagon has been weaker than Ice.


And someone please explain to me how it is even newb town to hide information that could convince others to lynch? If you are going to be leading a lynch, you should be giving reasons to convince.

[The Acting Method]

@ Everyone currently on my lynch wagon:

Do you have a reason for voting for me and a good case for voting me other than: "He doesn't believe in newb town reads."

@ Everyone: Can someone give me a reason why newbtown would think it wise to vote someone and refuse to give a case no matter how scummy they look for it?

Reasons why I don't believe the latter:
1. Yes, you know you are town. NOBODY ELSE DOES
2. Unless you know people agree with you, no one is going to join your wagon.
Corrilary: If you are the first vote on a person and you want them lynched, no one is going to join your wagon UNLESS You give evidence and anyone who jumps on and says "Player X is right." Is either dumbtown or probably scum.

Reasons correlating to Vash:
1. He doesn't talk as if it's his first game ever, he's had games on other sites. I doubt he's newbtown mistake making.

Oh and completely unrelated, http://coloholics.ca/forum/1741-mafioso-mansion/ Because I'm too lazy to hunt through the games on this site to find the ones I took part in...

Be warned, if you want to do a meta read on me, you will have to join the site to have access to the games... It's bot protection.

[The Acting Method]

Welcome DoubleJD.

[The Acting Method]

Yes that is correct.

If you don't mind, I'm going to read your long post to make sure I interpret it correctly. But you have some very interesting insights, which is something I do like.

[The Acting Method]

On Vash: Unwillingness to give reads/other game related information =/= town in my opinion. My case has pretty much unchanged from my ISO on him, and tbh I don't think the no lynch idea really clears him even as "Newbtown" As I've stated elsewhere, "Newbtown" is really kind of stupid, because a Mafia might make the same mistakes as a newb. Therefore it's a newb read and thus non indicative of alignment. So at best he's maybe a null read.

Also, I want Tierce to explain why Vash is a bad lynch. And I want a better reason than "newbtown". Like I said, for me at best he's null.

Now JD, I am suspicious of your slot. Chiefly from the actions of your predecessor purkle (the guy before innocent.) I think I'm currently voting you in fact.

I'd have to read through again but everyone on my wagon is scummy for this reason one vote and then suddenly everyone sheeped on me. Both bandwagons on me happened fast, and the first one just as quickly dispersed. That's something I'm going to have to look into because neither time I think reasons were given for the original vote.

[The Acting Method]

JD, purkle went inactive. Innocent requested replacement...

I have to look over again to get facts but I believe that is the case with your persons.

Again, different sites have different metas. Your site sounds different in the way people react to certain roles. replacing out is non indicative of alignment from my experience. But I would caution against assuming that someone who replaces out in Lynch or Lose is scum. (Note, I've replaced in and was lynched... Losing town the game. I believe it was lost in the great crash unfortunately.)

[The Acting Method]

-TAM: Lol never voting this guy. Why would we?

Hes been insanely active (most active?), and posts tons of tldr type posts. If hes scum, he has to keep this up gets owned down the line. In addition, so many posts are just going to give him that much more time to make mistakes and say something he shouldnt have.

I feel the pressure on him is justified, I just dont like it as a day1 lynch. Hes clearly very interested in this game, but has said hes not a special. From where i come from, vanilla townies are the most likely to be disinterested and mafia are the ones that defend till death. That by itself doesnt add up to me. However, there is just no way im voting him.

If TAM is a townie, then he will spark a ton of discussion from his posting. If hes good at being a townie, he's a great lightning rod for protection powers. Basically im saying that his value as a townie is far greater than his ability to be a mafia.

Tierce, I've bolded the particular section I was referring to in regards to the question you ask. I do think that lynching the most active player is not the wisest move day one.

Let's start with this. I feel like there is something here:

TAM has been L-1 twice now, but here's the thing...

the first time, these four were voting for him:
_purkle_(JD), Vash, Blastoide, Tierce

Now, it's:
Greywing, TheButtonmen, Vash, brund

I'm the only person who is consistent, and the only slot that
hasn't voted for TAM is fancypants(Quid)

Correction, I've been brought to L-1 three times officially. Tierce was on two, you've been on three, Grey and Button have been on two as well.
(Not going to include Argular)

Bolding my direct responses to Tierce's stuff here.

Alright, sorry. With the whole thing about games being into night/over, I kind of took a mini-vacation from games and... bad idea, since Responsibility. An IC should be active, and I apologize for the absence. Will try to be much more active from here on out.

I'm trying to catch up on what I missed since my last posts; if there is something else you'd like from me, please let me know.

Thanks for the apology

TAM, yes, there are such things as newbtown reads. You shouldn't get your whole read on a player from a specific event, but when a group of situations point to a player being protown, they are somewhat likely to be town. Scum can drop fake towntells and/or towntell accidentally, but you shouldn't neglect the power of getting strong townreads among newbies. 1) They're fun to spot and 2) townreads make scum nervous and then they have to deal with a lot more issues than "who is not an immediate easy mislynch". For reference: this game just ended, and the solid townreads we managed to get early on several of the newblets became very useful anti-paranoia tools when those players were replaced by more experienced ones.

Okay, I see the logic, but besides the no lynch situation, I'd like to see some examples of things he's done that are definitely obv.town... I will be looking through them myself during my second round of ISO PbPa.

TAM's reaction to being put at L-1 on Post 271 was awful. Reeks of scum thinking he was caught for the wrong reasons.

If I was scum, I would have been much more bitchy... trust me. I don't think I have many vanilla games to back me up. But I am way more emotional and defensive when scum/power role.

Jeeesus TAM continues racking up scum points.

This is why the above seems scummy to you I think... It's because I'm asking if any of you are voting for me for a reason other than I don't see the newbtown ness of Vash.

I honestly don't know what to think of TAM's change to innocentvillager. The reasoning was terrible, but it's still not too survivalistic--it seems like he wants to get a wagon going, true, but also that he wants his wagonee to reply to things. The latter is quite townish.

I am aware my reasoning is bad, I've acknowledged it. (My cases are from mid day, early mid day.)

More discussion of absolutes, etc. etc. disagree, etc.

@ Everyone: Can someone give me a reason why newbtown would think it wise to vote someone and refuse to give a case no matter how scummy they look for it?

Reasons why I don't believe the latter:
1. Yes, you know you are town. NOBODY ELSE DOES
2. Unless you know people agree with you, no one is going to join your wagon.
Corrilary: If you are the first vote on a person and you want them lynched, no one is going to join your wagon UNLESS You give evidence and anyone who jumps on and says "Player X is right." Is either dumbtown or probably scum.

And? Being obvtown doesn't make him effective town, but Vash is still town and should not be lynched.

You know, I may just not be seeing it. Or I really need to do another re-read, but I would like to know what exactly is giving you these town reads on Vash.

Things that strike out to me:
-TAM: Lol never voting this guy. Why would we? Hes been insanely active (most active?), and posts tons of tldr type posts. If hes scum, he has to keep this up gets owned down the line. In addition, so many posts are just going to give him that much more time to make mistakes and say something he shouldnt have. I feel the pressure on him is justified, I just dont like it as a day1 lynch. Hes clearly very interested in this game, but has said hes not a special. From where i come from, vanilla townies are the most likely to be disinterested and mafia are the ones that defend till death. That by itself doesnt add up to me. However, there is just no way im voting him.

And? Posting a lot may mean you are invested in the game, but it's not particularly alignment-telling. The quality of his posts has also been constantly decaying throughout the day, and I don't like his reaction to the pressure.

Tierce, trust me... The fact that I haven't raged is a good indicator I'm telling the truth about my role being vanilla town.

If TAM is a townie, then he will spark a ton of discussion from his posting. If hes good at being a townie, he's a great lightning rod for protection powers. Basically im saying that his value as a townie is far greater than his ability to be a mafia.

...I see where this is going.
Again, faulty reasoning--he might be good at being scum. How do you know the difference?

Read my Coloholics games, I have to play it low as scum to get anywhere. Or get really lucky.

Vash: I saw him pushing his no lynch idea long after Tierce refuted it. I dont know if a mafia would have the balls to keep pursuing such an idea. Townie (blah blah WIFOM)

I like this reasoning, and it was one of the things that solidified my townread on him.

and why my read at best is null at present.

Tierce: Experience terrifies me. There were always two players on my forum that were obviously on a whole nother level than the rest of the field. These people were able to soulread mafia as well as convince others they were the secret Cute and Fuzzy Kitten role with ease.

This guy[correction girl] is another value player, and combined with the IC thing its a mistake to get rid of him today.

Him and TAM are two people i think we shouldnt even be discussing on day1, and should just wait and see.

I'm female.

Also another reasoning I somewhat liked. from his insights

Fancypants: Do mafia quit the game often on this forum? Seems like an obvious tell that fancy is villager.

Better, but... nothing that actually deals with his posts, mafia replace out just about the same proportion as town do, adjusted for number of scum.

Agreement.

If you don't mind, I'm going to read your long post to make sure I interpret it correctly. But you have some

very interesting insights

, which is something I do like.

Emphasis mine.

Really? Like what, exactly?

Bolded the exact sections in your quotes coresponding to his post. Basically some of his stuff on you and myself I liked.

@Tierce, you hinted at mystical powers for the first 2 days and have done very little scum hunting in the next 12 pages, it's mostly been just general game information and one vote on TAM that comes across as a pressure vote. You KNOW you are going to get the "get out of lynch free card" on day 1 and possibly day 2 so at the very least your lack of contribution are very anti-town.

Wasn't even posting content for the later days. >.> Thanks for calling me out on it--townpoints for that, btw; newbscum is happy with lurkaderp town, while town wants others being active and doing their job.

As I have pointed out, and I do agree.

Also, I want Tierce to explain why Vash is a bad lynch. And I want a better reason than "newbtown". Like I said, for me at best he's null.

Seriously? Still on this? Still pushing Vash for the same things? And pusing DoubleJD for _purkle_'s actions, pretty much ignoring what else has happened in the game?

Vash is town for his no-lynch vote and how he approached it. Onward.

Thank you. Now, I do admit (and have admitted) I need to read through this game a bit. Reason I've been focusing so much on Vash/ DoubleJD is actually because I felt/feel most of the case against me revolves on them so I'm stuck trying to figure out What I'm defending myself against as opposed to updating my reads. Makes sense?

Okay, If I don't post at all for awhile it's because I'm updating my ISO's/reads.

To my knowledge JD, (And I will bow to superior knowledge having never been scum on this site.) Mafia generally aren't allowed to talk during the day so in a newbgame like this they wouldn't be well coordinated.

Think I've addressed everything...

Also another theory on why I'm not dead yet... I'm not about to self vote. And four players feel that I'm not the best candidate for a D1 lynch at any one time... Which means there's a stalemate unless someone decides to change it...

So now, To my ISO's!!!

[The Acting Method]

Blastoide:
1. intro. Random vote (for slightly odd random reason.)
2. states Vash's gender.
3. responds to questioning.
4. Time zone
5. Questions about defending Tierce.
6. Accepts my explanation. [Tierce and I connected in someway I]
7. Thinks random voting stage is over.
8. Need to check context. Fluff.
9. site information.
10. Fluff.
11. Fluff.
12. Votes me. Gives a reason.
13. asks to get a reask of question, promises read with answer to question.
14. Warns read might not be as elaborate.
15. Gives reasoning and reads, (in more detail)
16. question to mod.
17. More talking, ask questions.
18. Asks Greywing why he considers Vash a newbtown.
19. more talking focusing on Vash and Greywing, shows his last game.
20. Asks Tierce a question.
21. Says Tierce only one to give a reason.
22. waiting for others.
23. Wonders if Vash and Button are Mafia teammates.
24. Unvotes me, gives an explanation why.
25. Speculates about Quid and Innocent (JD and Fancy) havign different roles.
26. Responds to lecture from mod. Also explains his reasoning.
27. Asks about Fancy Pants reads?
28. Defends self and confused.
29. Goes after Fancy pants last post and discusses it.
30. Votes Brundibar and gives explanation.
31. V/LA related fluff.

Seems town to me.

Brundibar
1. Random Vote...
2. Mod Question...
3. Time zone question.
4. fluff.
5. Answers question on experience.
6. Asks for reasons for Tierce's vote.
7. Reviews pretty much what I just said in response to Tierce's reason.
8. Questions my vote on an inactive.
9. Responds to my explanation of vote.
10. slightly pressures Tierce for not following up on questions.
11. Fluff.
12. Reads (detailed.)
13. Explains inclusion of Blast's particular post. (Good reasoning for a newbie, even if Brundi disagrees.)
14. Unsure about Vash's thoughts on inactivity.
15. Says post 110 is a little off but not scum indicator.
16. Wants back up on his button read.
17. backs up questioning of my wording.
18. Confused by my explanation.
19. Votes Vash and no one else sees his button case.
20. Explains his case against Button.
21. Asks about Town Read on Vash by Tierce.
22. V/LA announcement.
23. Votes me out of the blue.
24. Tests for hammer. unvotes.

I'm leaning town on him.

Greywing
1. Random Vote.
2. Time Zone, somewhat defends Brundibar. [Am going to look into this...]
3. Answers Tierce question, responds to quid.
4. Questions Tierce's town read after three posts.responds to Quid's responses. And Quid's mistake.
4. Doesn't like situation in the slightest, has a one of three read on Tierce/Buttonman/Me. Gives reads talks about Tierces response and discusses why Tierce struck him as stranger than TBM.
5. Responds to my query, talks after Brundi, questions innocent.
6. Questions me about my thoughts as to his theory.
7. Answers my question about buddying...
8. Votes me for saying that Scum would not not notice the amount of votes on them without caring and votes. (I disagree. I tend to pay very close attention as scum to the amount of votes I have on me... Not so much as town unless pointed out.)
10. Fluff.
11. Explains reasoning for votes. Asks about differences between My town and scum play. also asks Innocent about town reads.
12. Asks FancyPants question, and then goes asks a couple of new questions.
13. Votes Brundibar as a question.
14. Challenges Fancy's unwillingness to share town reads. goes into a few other things. and asks Tierce a question.

Null. There are things that feel off, and I'm not sure if it's difference in playstyle, if he's scum, or I just am hungry.

Vash
1. Random Vote
2. Experience discussion.
3. Vote Count, votes me... No reasoning just two scum pairs.
4. Accuses me of being too defensive for a night one accusation... "Night One?" gives two points, first one I invalidate simply because, It does make sense to say something doesn't make sense if it doesn't make sense to the speaker. Capiche?
5. More debate with me and asks me why I would vote for an inactive player.
6. Debate over theory.
7. quote mishap. Still theory debate... (what I was actually doing was scum fishing by calling him out on what I considered a scum slip.)
8. Claims reasoning changed... Um, I don't think so...
9. Theory debate.
10. Theory debate.
11. Claims he answered, responds to my explanation. Acting cocky. (Also so far he has been acting like an experienced player... How do you get a NEWBtown read from an "Experienced player.)
12. Starts trying to play mind games.
13. Gives his thought process.
14. Acknowledges forum differences. (Okay, He's new to this site =/= newbtown..._ Gives more details and reasons Finally.
15. Questions me on a statement.
16. Continues on "Inactive lynching is scummy."
17. Says he'll analyze. (I interpret this to mean some kind of content is coming.)
18. Questions Innocent.
19. Votes No lynch.
20. Votes No lynch.
21. Explains Reasoning.
22. Goes further into it.
23. Explains the L-1 comment.
24. clarifys.
25. Goes further and comments he already adressed this. (And really, what townie in their right mind goes or I'm scum.)
26. Disagrees with my statement about Scum keeping an eye on their lynch state. (Knowing my playstyle at least, I can honestly say I'm correct here. I keep track of every vote against me as scum or when I'm a power role.)
27. says never promised a detailed analysis. (no you didn't... My bad for not being more clear as to my expectations. Now that I think about it, you kind of did with the no lynch vote.)
28. Ummm. First quote his response makes no sense. Also says I need to look up the word promise. (Please note that I'M the one using the word promise, based on MY interpretation of the posts.)
29. Responds to me again.
30. keeps harping about it goes on about twisting words ect. (How come it is this game feels like whenever someone accuses someone else of doing something... They're the ones doing it or they are also doing it.)
31. Fluff, Mod question.
32. Votes me again.
33. encourages Blast to vote me...
34. Fluff.
35. Promises more information after he works out a few details. (I will say promise here because he says More in a bit.)
36. Gives some analysis of the lynches on me. Would like to point out here that apparently enough people are unwilling to lynch me that I'm still alive... Does not point to me being scum.
37. Fluff.
38. Fluff. (I believe the mod said he wasn't counting the vote on me.)

Okay... Having read through again... he actually does improve on second reading. Some things to me still read scummy and I see nothing that screams OBV.TOWN But I will say that he's a pretty steady null read slightly leaning town.

Quid/Fancy Pants.
[quid]1. Random vote, gives some suggested nicknames, answers question and adds another, asks tierce a question.
2. Tells Tierce to have fun in the country where he's from. Fluff.
3. Thinks Tierces reasoning works better for Vash, but because purkle's been silent keeps his vote.
4. responds to a question from Greywing? that I forgot about... May have asker wrong will check, possibly at Purkle...
5. Responds to both Greywing (first two) and purkle (last three, despite mishap labeling last two as Greywing.)
6. Repeats my request.
7. Apologizes for afore mentioned mishap.
8. How did I miss him noting the explination TBM gave? probably was posting my response and wasn't paying attention... Though admittedly, I wanted a better explination from TBM, which he has since given.
9. Responds to 67 and goes back a little.
10. Askes for explination of Vash's sudden vote.
11. reminds blast that his link is broke, points out Tierce's chumminess.
12. What Does Vash infer from posting vote counts? And then points out how the votecount was the body of his post and how it wasn't a good thing.
13. Gives Blastoise advice on linking posts.
14. Straight out tells Vash that if he has a good reason to believe these reads he should give it. Something we were all saying that were more active.
15. Questions 92 and dissagrees with lurking/inactivity arguement... Also calls out Vash for refusing to take part in discussion.
16. most recent post of Vash? shows some scumhunting.But what is making you think is scummy in the first place.
17. Asks Buttons why he thinks Tierce and purkle are scum.
18. Thinks Button's Tierce case is weak, purkle case isn't too bad, but would have liked the reasons sooner... Asks vash for answer to the same question, and why he thinks it's TAM+Tierce or TAM+Buttons.
19. Votes Vash and asks for reads and start posting instead of continuing a debate which was unneccessary. (And still is the entire basis for your case on me as my story has pretty much been, lurking and inactivity are both anti town and acceptable votes on d1.)
20. Thanks Buttons and basically says Vash's behavior is a liability if we reach LyLo. Also his refusal to give information is frustrating.
21. Gets a little bit irritated with Vash, asks some questions.
22. talks about my last ISO with response.
23. Gives his reads.
24. Pretty much talking to Blast.
25. Responds to Vash's comment referred to earlier and asks him this: "Why is TAM scummy for voting 1fifi & yet you don't seem to have any problem with my own stance toward Purkle?" I do not believe this was ever answered. Vash, I will have it below at the end of this post. Please answer it.
26. Responds to Blasts response.
27. Reaction to Brundi and Innocent.
28. response to my agreement with his statement to Innocent..
29. Talks to Tierce about Tierces past games.
30. Responds to Innocent.
31. Talks to Tierce about his reaction to Vash.
32. Misunderstood Buttons and apologized it.
33. Talks about Buttons, at end asks questions "What irritates you about TAM's desire for more information? Do you think he had all the information necessary to make a good case? Or do you think his questions were bad?" Will check to see if these were answered, if not, please answer them Buttons.
34. Questions my post involving activity vs. inactivity (a particular portion.)
35. His view of the post and my explanation.
[Fancy] 1. Entrance, Catching up.
2. Fluff just saying that it might take awhile.
3. Gets into basic overview. Votes Greywing.
4. Repeats it due to spelling mistake.
5. Revotes after I correct him. Gives case, tries to peacemake with me and bandwagon.
6. Clarifing.
7. Challenges Greywing.
8. Time zone figuring.
9. seeing Blast as scummy, wants more posts.
10. Waits for Greywing, asks Tierce questions.
11. Talks abotu different depat points.
12. Considers Greywing collapsing under pressure.
13. Is encouraging content.

I saw Quid as town and Fancy hasn't done much to convince me other wise... Some weird bits though... Also The incident with Argula may be an indicator that this slot is scummy... (Will double check this. Argula's vote had it been allowed, may have caused me to be lynched?)

Also, here's a theory for you... Maybe Mafia doesn't WANT me dead because I make such good mislynch bait...

Moving on...

_purkle_/innocentvilliager/DoubleJD
[purkle]1. Random Vote.
2. answers questions asks one that never gets answered...
3. Questions a conversation of fluff and then mentions Vash...
[innocentvillager]1. Intro, questions answered.
2. gives thoughts, comments on predeccessor. Long list of thoughts.
3. His POV and such explaining his comments on the predecessor.
4. Responds to questions directed at him.
5. Feels uncomfortable with Greywings vote.
6. Buddies Tierce. Thinks I'm town.
7. Says no motivation/time to post is gone...
[DoubleJD]1. Fluff.
2. Intro and thoughts.
3. Confused with deadline workings.
4. Votes Blast for his reasons.
5. Belatedly does a silly intro.
6. Responds to Fancy and give a more in deep explanation.
7. talks about his predecessor. (What is with this slot and commenting on predecessors.)
8. Points out some things.
9. Gives Reads.
10. one word post.
11. non game realted.
12. Non Game related.
13. Non Game Related.

null Leaning scum... Besides the whole amished tell thing. (which isn't the baisis of my case but a side note.) I feel like there's not enough game related content. I'll give town points for the organized mafia comment which is the only reason why I'm not absolutely saying definate scum.

TheButtonman
1. basically announcing his arrival.
2. Automatically suspects Tierce for asking "Who do you think is scum" (essentially) to Greywing after being singled out.
3. Tierce asking him the same question and a post from purkle to postulate they are the scum team.
4. Gives reasoning for why he voted Tierce, which feels weak and stretching.
5. Continues pressuring Tierce.
6. Says Votes mean nothing, actions count. Seems to be making a mountain out of a weak case.
7. Says there is nothing to elaborate on in post 49... He suggests how to deal with posts.
8. Refers me to above comment. Scoff at Blastoides...
9. Asks me to stop continually demanding things and make a case.
10. Tells Vash to give him the links.
11. Throws a random votecount, sole body of post
12. Gets after me for my views on Inactives/Lurkers, and then the rules (seeing as I have asked that they not post votecounts as that feels like mod imitating to me.)
13. Asks that we get going on the game.
14. Actually gives a little explination.
15. Bitches about VashvsMe and sets some things straight.
16. Questions Tierce about seeming switch.
17. Responds.
18. Clarifys.
19. responds to stuff.
20. Clarifys.
21. Quotes me, talks about something unrelated what? gives some opinions. slight buddying of Greywing.
22. See 21.
23. Responds to me with my statement.
24. Loses all town points... For not seeing the next page? Okay...
25. Details why.
26. Blastoide attention.
27. apologizes.
28. complains about me making empty posts. Votes me, goes after Blast a little.
29. Responds to people.
30. Says I'm complaying not making a case.
31. Goes after Brundi.
32. Thingks Brundi is scum.
33. Responds to Teirce about DoubleJD and tells him to reveal his status as an alt.

I'm going to say this straight forward. Null. I literally can't decide if his behavior is scummy or just playstyle. I'm going to have to read some meta to get a clearer picture. Also, why not lynch now instead of D2?

Tierce:
1. Standard IC post, taken from Thor mostly.
2. Responds to Quid's questions and votes.
3. Some light discussion and some game discussion.
4. Asks Greywing who is scum.
5. Asks brundibar what makes him feel like my switch was bad.
6. Asks buttons if he is scum (wait, I got something wrong then here in Buttons... misread on my part.)
7. Confused by Buttons wording, claims townread on Greywing and states that he wants to hear more from it.
8. Asks about commenting on her read having any advantage when it's still her strongest read. Says she was never accusing Greywing of not scumhunting, just wanting more.
9. Expresses confusal and calls me obv. Town, Also points out that he asked a question, and didn't push for anything further after she replied to it...
10. Responds to Greywing, Votes me, responds to Quid.
11. unvotes me.
12. Responds to Tierce.
13. Responds to me.
14. Talks to Button.
15. Talks about why post 110 made him uncomfortable.
16. Promise of posts.
17. Question of No Lynch.
18. Responds to that.
19. Goes to catch up.
20. IC talk.
21. Ask me for my reasons.
22. Responds to part of my thought process. (I do have another one... But that would be uber manipulative and smart scum.)
23. More discussion.
24. Asks for reasons for voting Vash. (Besides me, were they ever given? My had essentially been parked there, and I saw no other option to move it to.)
25. Asks me how that makes him scum.
26. talks about newbtown and how it works. (Still don't see it.)
27. Calls logical fallacy.
28. Is laughing and says should go to bed.
29. Questions Blast.
30. Points out where the things mentioned in 29. are.
31. Fluff.
32. More fluff.
33. Back to work responses.
34. Decides DoubleJD Is scum then unvotes because of alt suspicion.
35. Checks herself and gives advice.
36. More forum related advice.

Still reading town to me.

right now my biggest scum read is DoubleJD. Which is where my vote is so I don't think I'll be moving it.

I'll probably post them again so you can see them, but there are a couple of questions I didn't see answered that I would like to see answered.

[The Acting Method]

I actually do it so I don't have to go back and build my reads and cases.

You see where they come from right in front of you.

[The Acting Method]

@ Mod: FancyPants just switched votes to brundibar last post.

[The Acting Method]

Quid/Fancy Pants.
25. Responds to Vash's comment referred to earlier and asks him this: "Why is TAM scummy for voting 1fifi & yet you don't seem to have any problem with my own stance toward Purkle?"

33. Talks about Buttons, at end asks questions "What irritates you about TAM's desire for more information? Do you think he had all the information necessary to make a good case? Or do you think his questions were bad?"


I saw Quid as town and Fancy hasn't done much to convince me other wise... Some weird bits though... Also The incident with Argula may be an indicator that this slot is scummy... (Will double check this. Argula's vote had it been allowed, may have caused me to be lynched?)

Also, here's a theory for you... Maybe Mafia doesn't WANT me dead because I make such good mislynch bait...

Moving on...

Tierce:
24. Asks for reasons for voting Vash. (Besides me, were they ever given? Mine had essentially been parked there, and I saw no other option to move it to.)

Okay, So I've gone through and picked out all of the questions that I either asked or thoughts I wanted to expand with.

So @Vash: Please answer the question mentioned in Quid:25 or could you point me to where you answered it?
@Buttons: Please answer Quid: 33 if you haven't already, I'm pretty sure you answered this one, but if not could you answer it?
@Everyone: What is your thoughts on my theory that at least one member of the mafia is keeping me alive to cement the idea that I'm scum in your minds to pull a mislynch later?
@ Those who were voting Vash, give your reasons. (Mine have been discussed so often in this game that I've already answered them.)

[The Acting Method]

Fancy, I'm going after questions that were never answered. As it has been pointed out, I've been brought to L-1 at least twice now. There are things to be gathered from this.

Also, thank you for ignoring the fact that I was mainly going after questions I want answered that were never answered.

[The Acting Method]

@Mod No one is voting for greywing yet you have the number 1 still next to his name.

I'm going to read brundibar again to see if I can find anything that makes me feel like his is scum...

Though there is a point where Brundibar and Greywing had a case of buddying that I'm aware of (it was short enough were it could have been scum/scum.)

But at present I still have a slight town read on Brundi though it's slipped closer to null.

[The Acting Method]

It may have been a couple of days ago, but I think before voting Vash... he made a case against Buttons.

I'll have to look to be sure.

[The Acting Method]

Posts edited as needed for space. Everything in is related to button

Button

15 posts of nothing that really contributes to the game, while sounding like an asshole in the process. Reading through his ISO, it's really just a bunch of accusations with little or no claims, and then yelling at other people.


Okay, well now that that's over,

Unvote

VOTE: Button

If you haven't, read through his ISO. Vash is second on my list.

Also, can you guys PLEASE read through Button's ISO and post your thoughts? I seem to be the only one noticing how weird it is.

If nobody else is seeing my case against Button right now, then

Unvote

VOTE: Vash

The case on Button

Iso 0-2 useless
3-6 heckling Tierce
7 fluff
8-9 heckling
10 vote count
11-12 game rules

Things start to get better around here, I will admit. Looking through everything again makes me feel a little better about Button, but I still have reservations.

So those where his reasons from earlier.

[The Acting Method]

Vash, I should call you scum for doing that.

But in any case. We discussed it breifly and I find the way you worded it the first time, very off.

I don't think we should discuss it. I believe the mod said it is irrelevant. We discussed it a little when it happened and it's pointless to speculate anything further.

At least that's how I feel about it.

[The Acting Method]

I believe that Blast also expressed some similar opinions shortly after that... Let me check, I think there is some discussion on this though.

[The Acting Method]

So does this mean that Quid and Innocent Villager have different roles? So they can't both be vanilla town, mafia scum, but person could be vanilla town while the other can be mafia, right? Otherwise what would it matter if our mod accidentally sent the wrong role if they were the same, correct? Is it against the rules to use this information?

I would force replace the player regardless of what role the players in question have specifically to avoid questions such as the above.

No. It matters because if the mod had corrected the mistake by sending the correct PM, Argula would have had knowledge of two players roles. And that could have affected the game.
And what the mod said.

Though it is a shame. Save for TBM, Arg was the first player to actually replace in then give a scum read on me.

Actually I looked and there wasn't too much discussion, only this.

Tierce, I think Vash is implying that DoubleJD and FancyPants can't be scum together.

[The Acting Method]

I would say it's highly unlikely that both are Mafia... Personally I would pray that JD is the scum of the two simply because I find his slot more scummy. But He himself has done some townie actions. On the other hand, Fancy Pants has seemed pretty town as a slot however there is some scum chance.

[The Acting Method]

That's the reason why I'm not sold on him being scum. Mainly it's me having trouble shaking the read I had on the slot previously, I like to take entire slot pictures not just the actions of one player. I tend to base my reads off of total actions. Personally If one has to be scum, my read on the slots say it's more likely JD. But then there's the town tell you mentioned that bothers my read as you have so pointed out.

His slot is one I want to read back and see if I can find townie motivation in his predeccessors posts. It could be he just got a scummy town slot.

Fancypant's slot I've been saying for awhile now is pretty town to me. In my ideal world they are both town.

@Vash: No one, I have a tendency not to focus on pure town/town thought processes because I'm focused on finding scum. There's about a 50% chance that one of them is scum. (VT/VT, PR/PR VT/PR, VT/M, PR/M, M/M)What's missing from the quoted post in my thought process is "If one has to be scum" Ideally they are both town.

For the time being:

UNVOTE: DoubleJD
I want to review his slot and see if I can shake off the read I had from his predecessors.

I'm doing the same with Fancypant's slot as well as Greywing, Brundi and Buttons.

[The Acting Method]

Coming from my point of view, I have observed in myself a tendency to have my scum play and my PR play match excessively. Perhaps brundibar has the same unfortunate affliction as myself. Unfortunately we have no games to prove it at present but I believe it could be possible.

He's either being somewhat clever scum, (I would expect Mafia to claim something like Doctor in this set up.) Or he isn't using his head properly at all...

I'm seeing the conflict in voting him, and I have no real suggestions for an alternate.

[The Acting Method]

Which doesn't make sense. If I could say more on the subject I would, but I find it hard to believe you confuse such very different games with a different amount of players and different players in general.

If it was my home site where the community is small enough that you play games with the same people often and regularly, I might understand. But here... Something reads off.

[The Acting Method]

Also, Not Jail Keeper.

He did.

Not Jailkeeper.

Also the possible set ups are thus: JK/C, JK/VT, JK/D, C/VT, C/D, VT/D

If Brundi is telling the truth there is a 2/3rds chance we have another powerrole. If he is lying there is a 50% chance no one can CC him.'

@Blast, We'll discuss it then, as I have shown there is a chance that no one can and he still would be scum.

[The Acting Method]

No. Having actually modded a set up or two of this on my home site. Jailkeeper is a Roleblock/protect role. You are not informed of your protectees alignment.

All you can assume is that you either blocked mafia or protected town if no kill happens.

[The Acting Method]

Fancy, Tierce is the IC...

Also

@Mod I'm going to be V/LA for a couple of days, I need to get some serious work done... I should be back around the 23rd/24th.

[The Acting Method]

V/LA does not mean completely gone. It means limited access. I may pop in from time to time, but I have things to take care of.

[The Acting Method]

Well clearly Button didn't believe Brundi's roleclaim.

[The Acting Method]

@ Mod: Who was voting Greywing?

Based off of Brundibar's flip I'd say that Greywing, Tierce, Blastiode or TheButtonman are scum.

Based off of Brundibar's thoughts TBM is the most likely.

I want to look at Fancy Pants thoughts again... Scum either thought he/she had them pinpointed, or they wanted to sow blame on someone else.

Greywing, you do realize that your last two posts seem kind of fishy and suspicious...

[The Acting Method]

That's interesting... Greywing, Tierce and Buttons are three of the four top scum reads from fancypants. Brundibar was the other read.

So either Blastoide is scum and trying to push one of the other three into the spotlight.

Or one of those three was aware of the fact that there were two potential mislynches to gain from Fancy pants reads.

Either way, Statistically the probability of town being the only alignment on a mis lynch is very small.

So most likely there is a mafia in those four and a mafia in Vash, or JD.

[The Acting Method]

No, Just stating the obvious conclusion. If I wasn't doing that I would have already done this:

VOTE: TBM

For voting an unCC'ed PR claim and other details that have been listed in the past.

Also: Most likely TBM is scum and was impatient to finally get a mislynch.

[The Acting Method]

Frankly, I didn't really think Brundi was a good lynch, and was looking for a better option keeping in mind the flips and the scenario, I want to look and see if I can find anything new from interactions, and also take into account the reads.

Also you do realized you pretty much said what I said in regards to your group?

[The Acting Method]

I do believe I said I felt it was a bad lynch at the time... However, I have a horrible habit of thinking I said something and having not actually said it despite thinking it at the time.

However, I believe that the only other person even being suggested before the brundi wagon was me.

JD, to your question about night kills, it really depends on whose Mafia... Sometimes a replacement newb (such as Fancy Pants) has a really good insight that could help the town.

Also it really depends who the Mafia wants to frame... If they wanted to frame me or Vash, which you are implying with your scum tell which seems a bit silly as Vash was still die hard "Lynch TAM" and I was "I think Brundibar's town."

The best nk canidates in that case would be myself or Vash.

But Fancy Pants was killed. so either Buttons, Tierce or Greywing is being framed. Or Fancy figured out the scum team and needed to be taken out.

I think that Buttons or Greywing are the most scummy of the four listed and therefore one of them should be lynched.

[The Acting Method]

@JD: Would you have actually still hammered after Brundi's roleclaim with no counterclaim?

[The Acting Method]

That's interesting... Greywing, Tierce and Buttons are three of the four top scum reads from fancypants. Brundibar was the other read.

So either Blastoide is scum and trying to push one of the other three into the spotlight.

Did you mean to say Blastoide here?

Short version: Yes, read below as to why.
Okay, showing those on the brundi wagon when he was lynched. (from the mod's votecount before lynch scene.) (This has to do with my question btw.)

brundibar (5) Greywing, Blastoide, FancyPants, Tierce, TheButtonmen

So, In the first post I made this game day, I say that one of the above who isn't FancyPants is scum. And that I'm looking into the reads.
My second post, (which is me speculating in part on what Greywing is getting at in his first post.) I list the possible motivations from the people on the brundibar wagon to kill FancyPants. Since one of them is most likely scum (which I stated in my first post.)
If you look at this situation from a scum standpoint (and I tend to when doing a form of VCA/NKA)
Blastoide's only motive if scum is to put TBM, Tierce and Greywing into the spotlight.
The other three have the motive of "He saw me as scummy, must lynch."
However, I'm going to trust the mutual read that Brundi and Fancy both had...

Which is why I believe you can find my vote on you TBM.

[The Acting Method]

Grey... How have I been pushing you? As Fancy's TOP SCUM READ You would be the obvious choice for framing which is why I think BUTTON is the far more likely canidate...

Also, if I'm scum, why would I kill my chief town read and a slot that has generally read me as town to frame you?

You do recall that my top two scumreads for awhile were Vash and JD?

If I'm scum, why would I kill my biggest defender and chief town read over say Tierce?

In other words, why would I want to frame you?

And why would I explain the possibility that that was exactly what I was doing with the nightkill?


You gonna make a case, at least use your head.
Oh and if you consider I had already tried to get my top scumreads lynched and no one listened, What was I going to do, say "Vote Vash he's scum?" When no one would have listened? I have a brain you know. I know that any thing I would have said at that point in time would have had me called out as scum.

You know, If I didn't think Buttons was the scum, I'd think you were purposely framing yourself so you could blame someone else... Since it seems like that is exactly what you set up here.

[The Acting Method]

Did you read the rest of the post? Or just that line?

It was gut and a weak case. And did you read the part where I actually directly addressed WHY I DIDN'T Go for a better option (Which frankly, look at the time stamp between my last post and Buttons, we had just finished the "is there going to be a Jailkeeper CC", There isn't I don't think I was even ON by the time I could do anything about it where someone might hear me.


Also @Greywing: Fun Fact, I actually came into this day, planning to vote Buttons. Why? He had lynched Brundi in a very scummy way. You actually pointing out FancyPants death made me actually look over and analyze it. But I came to the conclusion that Buttons was Scum.

[The Acting Method]

Grey, if I viewed you as an easy mislynch, I would have had no compunctions in having you lynched.

Instead, I pointed out how pretty much EVERY Player could be scum and focused mainly on Buttons.

Because Buttons is scum.

And trust me... There comes a point where as Vanilla Town, you get tired of being called scummy. Frankly you've actually put more attention on yourself than I have. Period.

Grey, can you show me where in my posts I have specifically said "Grey=Scum" that doesn't involve me saying "Any one of those on the lynch could be scum"

Oh I don't know, even experienced scum can do stupid shit.

And if you recall Buttons attitude he doesn't care anyway... so if that's his attitude even as scum... He would do that anyway.

[The Acting Method]

Tierce, when this game is over, I'm going to laugh at how traditional this is for me to start off decently town as town, then somehow my playstyle ends up reeking of scum...

Perhaps I should stop thinking "If I were scum, what would I be doing" and using that to base my reads and cases off of and start just focusing on finding things I find suspicious.

But that's then. I can't say who my partner is because I don't have one Tierce. Because I am town.

Though if you want my suspicion on Scum you have it. It's where my vote is placed.

[The Acting Method]

Actually Tierce, Trust me. My play this game is about 10 times better than my average play. Frankly, As scum I rarely support bussing plans or agree to them so trust me there is no way both Grey and I can be scum. Unfortunately, I tend to post from an anti town perspective because I focus on finding scum by thinking like they would think. Then posting my thought process for the world to see.

Really, have you ever seen the most scummy player actually post what they would do as scum when scum? I know I haven't. Blast, I've maybe gestured at him. I don't recall suggesting that He and Buttons were partners.

Blastiode, interesting thoughts with your reads, however, your reasoning for Tierce town is flawed. It's not necessarily wrong. But flawed. Scum IC's can do the same thing.

I have my vote on the scum. Trust me.

[The Acting Method]

Tierce, thing is: I think I've got scum picked out. I don't CARE if I die.

I'm almost positive that Scum is Buttons with the teammate most likely being Vash.

[The Acting Method]

Tierce, here's the thing. I've fought my lynch... This is what the 3rd, fourth time I've been brought to L-1? And Tierce, it's not self meta... I can back up that my play this game is better with at least one other game. I believe it's Newbie 1777 (might have the number wrong) Thing is, every time I try to FIGHT a lynch against me... most of the time it gets me lynched. And most of the time it's because I've gotten uber defensive and done every tactic I can thing of not to die.

This time, I'm not going to get defensive. Because I know that my death will actually make Greywing look Worse if he's scum. And frankly, it'll pin down that pesky scumbuddy of Buttons. Who really should be today's lynch. But then... Perhaps YOU are the scumbuddy.

[The Acting Method]

I've made my reasons against Buttons quite clear. I said them in like my first or second post this day. As for why you might be scum, you seem all too concerned with lynching me and with the idea that Greywing is my scumbuddy when if that is the case, Why would "ScumMe" agree to such an obviously flawed scheme? Clearly I would know that it wouldn't clear Greywing as it would be obvious distancing so why would I try it? Hell, look at whose dead. Brundibar had Buttons Pinned, FancyPants had Buttons pinned. You seem to be protecting Buttons and ignoring him for scum. Why? When it is painfully obvious that he is scum? In fact, it wouldn't surprise me too much if it turned out Vash and Buttons did turn out to be scumbuddies and I had them pinned all along.

But yeah. Buttons is scum, lynch him.

[The Acting Method]

Where have I lied?

I seem to recall saying I THOUGHT that...But I don't recall lying.

[The Acting Method]

You may be taking things from my posts and misinterpreting them.

I was unsure if his lynch was a good idea, but I would have liked to see if anyone was going to counter claim before saying let's definitely lynch him. As it was, I was somewhat hesitant. As things stand, and as I felt after Buttons hammer that it was a bad idea to hammer then. I felt their should have been a claim and maybe discussion.

capiche?

Also, don't call someone a lier for implications that you are recieving that they may not be intending.

[The Acting Method]

JD, have we established yet in this thread that I have a really bad memory about some things? Maybe I thought I had posted some things that I didn't that would give me proof that I did. I've said earlier.

Also, in retrospect, I should have been more against it. My first game on MafiaScum I was in the exact same position as Brundibar. The hammer vote did turn me against the lynch, but I very definitely wasn't pro it. I was, we should discuss more and see if we actually want to lynch him. Unfortunately, I was busy during that time with something else that prevented me from posting much. Capiche?

Any Case, turn your votes away from me and too Buttons. He's definite scum. If he's not... You can all lynch me tomorrow.

[The Acting Method]

Guys, You are just going to shoot yourself when I turn up Town...

Vote Buttons. He's Conf. Scum.

[The Acting Method]

JD, I'm Vanilla Town. But Buttons is so blindingly scum he's practically confirmed.

He's lynch.

[The Acting Method]

Do I need to outlay the entire case Brundi had against him?

Buttons from the moment I woke up this day phase, was obv. Scum...

I didn't have to do that long analysis I did. I could have voted him first thing.

[The Acting Method]

If I die, Buttons better be lynched next.

[The Acting Method]

Buttons is scum.

Grey, you forgot to add my stuff.

Buttons is scum,
Either Vash or Tierce is scumbuddy, don't ask me how.

Greywing is scum if neither Vash or Buttons is scum.

[The Acting Method]

Well, from a logical standpoint, killing me, especially at night, would make you seem suspicious. Seeing as I've felt you were scummy pretty much all game. Killing me would be some pressure on you.

Also, reason why Tierce might be scummy, That whole bit about vanilla town and trying to save yourself because noone cares about dead vanilla town...

If that's true why does everyone say that town should be more accepting of being mislynched if they feel it will catch scum.

[The Acting Method]

Buttons should be lynched...

You will be kicking yourselves.

I avoid lying at all costs... Even as scum.

Checkmate.

[The Acting Method]

I'm shocked...

Not only was I right with the JD slot being scum before the whole townslip thing...

But Greywing's whole spiel was a big scum maneuver. Good Game.

[The Acting Method]

Tierce, read again. I never actually read scum. You misinterpreted my words.

[The Acting Method]

Yeah, didn't intend for that to imply I was scum.

Basically, what I was trying to say was I avoid fakeclaiming at all costs, town/scum either way, I think I can only count twice where I have claimed and it was a fakeclaim on purpose if you want to count 601.

As I had claimed Vanilla Town earlier, I was Trying to say that you had just lynched town and that you were being idiots.

But yeah, I can see where that mistake was made so mea culpa.

Pun Pardoned, since I was doing theatrics anyway.

[The Acting Method]

True, need to work on that...

Though actually I prepared in another game offsite an excellent, semi true fakeclaim, in order to get scum lynched, however I was killed before I could reveal it was a fakeclaim...

Though that was a slightly bastard game with an interesting set up premise, town still won though.

But yeah, I see what you are saying.

[The Acting Method]

Yeah... In the situation in question, I felt it necessary to get a lynch on scum (It was basically to explain how I knew that a certain character in the game was scum and how that person was that character (though actually the latter was painfully obvious.))

[The Acting Method]

I know, in the case I'm referring to, the only reason I did it was because I was dead sure on the outcome. (And yes, when the player I was doing this to get them lynched got lynched, They flipped scum.)

But yeah Tierce, I do agree with you. In the case mentioned, I only think I would have been lynched had I, A: Lived, and B:Gotten my chosen lynch AND they flipped the Character I had been told (By the mod) was scum but they also flipped Town. Had they merely flipped town and not the character I was told, I would have just reminded them that I was told the Character that was scum not the player. (Irony, both times I did some sort of fake claim I ended up being town/ uninformed Majority. (The other was a Serial Killer themed mafia where I implied I was a different serial killer than i actually was. The "Scum" was really clever that game because the "Town" were all slipping under the radar and it was in general a fun game. (Of course the second time, I thought I was scum and we were all somewhat kicking ourselves for not guessing the truth.)

[The Acting Method]

You did a good job Blastoide.

I swear Greywing had even me fooled. Same with JD... (should have stuck to my gut on him. Lesson learned.)

[The Acting Method]

Yeah. Admittedly Greywing was like after buttons for me... That was just wow...

I swear, Doctors and Jailkeepers are the most scummy newbroles to get...

First game here, I was Jailkeep, got myself lynched... (for different reasons than here so, IMPROVEMENT!)

What's nice is that the suspicion on me that gets me lynched is changing which is making me happy.

[The Acting Method]

Have fun and choose wisely

I don't think I've ever been an easy lynch on MS... I fight hard... I think my best win was when I was the cop... Unfortunately that game got most of it lost in the crash... I think all that's left is me leading a lynch on Pizzadudes or something. He was lynched and flipped town, we had a doctor, we had like 5 consecutive nights of no lynch no kill until scum finally caught the doctor, by that time I had figured out one of the last two scum I seem to recall and got them lynched, and I was killed the night I investigated the other.

[The Acting Method]

That's an interesting theory...

I'd love to hear more of your reasoning for it.