Newbie 11 - Game Over

[jadesmar]

Role receipt confirmed.

[jadesmar]

I must appologize for my inactivity (especially to the new people). I am not a lurker.. we were having a little MIT mystery hunt this weekend and though it was well advertised on the Grey Labyrinth, I forgot that it probably would not be mentioned here. I will be back tomorrow (the hunt is still going on)... to post some thoughts on the progress so far.

[jadesmar]

My personal thought is that random votes are fairly useless. Though. at one point, they were said to give the town information on who is voting for whom (and who is not voting for the same) at the early stages of the game.

I think they have progressed to a point where the mafia knows how to truly randomize votes and as such, the town is again provided with very little information.

I personally will vote only when someone says or does something that strikes me a "scummy" in the case of the first day, this vote will likely not be much better than random.

As long as there is a fair amount of communication, I don't find random votes useful. If the communication starts to die out, then it is time to vote for the non-posters, until someone does something "scummy".

Another reason to vote for quieter people is that, in a small game like this, all the mafia really need to do is sit back and wait for the town to make errors. As, such, I hope I have explained my silence this weekend adequately.

Random votes also seem to be more powerful in the smaller games such at 7 player, since, in these smaller games, there are probably .. umm.. oh let's say ... two mafia. In the case of two mafia, having someone on the town's side pile on even a second vote for a person could be very dangerous. Mistakenly lynching a townie in these games will dramaticaly increase the chance for the town to lose and thus, communication must be our primary concern.

If you are going to vote for a person in a small game, please give them a reason that they can respond to, this opens the door to communication, which further opens the door for mafia to make mistakes.

[jadesmar]

I forgot to mention, there are other methods of getting people to contribute.. *FOS* is a classic and perhaps should be treated more seriously in these smaller games.

Since, I am not sure this was pointed out in the introductory literature, for the newbians.. *FOS* is short for **Finger of Suspicion** .. pointed at those you think are doing "scummy" things, an accusation should follow which can be responded to.

[jadesmar]

As there are probably two mafia around, bandwagonning will probably lead to lynching an innocent. Bandwagonning works much better in larger 12+ person games where we (as the town) need more than 4 votes to lynch.

See, Wacky, with that vote you put me at about 25% of the votes needed for a lynch. If you are town and one or two other townspeople vote for me, the mafia can waltz in and end day one.

Bandwagonning in this small games is a good idea if you are mafia or suicidal, not otherwise.

Are you even reading my posts?

[jadesmar]

Look at the reason given for voting me:

Bandwagoning is probably better without a deadline around IMO.

I found no reason to respond to this, as it was basically the antithesis of everything I have said so far all game. It appeared that the attack was directed at the thoughts which I had already posted. If you want my defense, look at my posts preceding the vote.

[jadesmar]

I am very confused by the statement that nothing is happening or that this game is inactive.

[jadesmar]

willows_weep: Well, since, at this point I have no information on who may or may not be scum, I am helping. I thought the experienced mafia players where here for this purpose. There are worse things I could be doing.. like not posting.

I think the game will pick up when they realize that I never said anything against voting for people you find suspicious. It's the random voting that will tend to kill us off in the smaller games.

Also, thinking for yourself is very important. The town could basically say "go stuff it jadesmar" and continue to vote for whoever they want.

Ok, as a game point. There's what 4 people + mod who have posted on this page? Why is wllows_weep suspicious of only them? (Except for Corsato, who was suspicious earlier).

[jadesmar]

vote: Feantur

Reasons:
1. Didn't comment on anything I said.
2. Should realize that even without people voting, things are happening
3. Should have payed attention to another's comments that if no one votes, deadlines help the mafia. (I don't remember who said that but, it is valid).

[jadesmar]

Me too.. I don't care who posts the defense, as long as one is posted before more votes are piled on.

Mod, can you remove the thread of deadline until the replacement gets here. The game is not going to proceed without one.

If you will not retract the threat of a deadline, please find a replacement for me as well. I refuse to be bullied by the mod.

[jadesmar]

Sorry, I was a bit short tempered yesterday, you do not need to replace me. I am still however, concerned that the thread of a deadline is looming while a replacement is being looked for.

The whole town (well, at least 4 of us) are suspicious of the person (Feantur) who appeared to be lurking and then came out suddenly asking for a deadline. This scummish behavious needs to be defended.

Perhaps even an explanation of the smiley after the "I think a deadline would be best".

[jadesmar]

Quagmire: Can't you just grab the next person from the inexperience-challeged group. I suggest this group because it is not likely you will find a newbie who will be capable or willing to turn the tide of this bandwagon. Though, they are always welcome to try too.

Reasons my vote is staying on Feantur's replacment:
1. Feantur was lurking and suddenly showed up, not to vote, or make note of suspicions but to look for a deadline to end the day quickly.
2. Once Feantur was pressured by other players to come up with a defense, instead of coming up with anything, he quit.

Both activities are quite suspicious and though I would like to see a defense from Feantur (or replacement), without one, my vote will stay where it is.

[jadesmar]

You read.. I'll wait here

[jadesmar]

1. I have no clue what you mean by proactively lurking.. this seems oxymoronic.
2. Did you see my earlier post where I said that Feantur had been lurking (non-proactively?) and then came out and called for a deadline. When called on this action, Feantur quit the game. I'm sorry I would have imagined that more than just Wacky and me would have found this suspicious.

[jadesmar]

Pie_is_good: I have already explained why someone is more suspicious than me.

1. Feantur was lurking.
2. Feantur's post asked for a deadline.
3. Feantur, upon being asked about this quit the game.
4. EnPaceRequiescat has two posts.
4a. The first post was - "I need to read the thread" - this is fair, we like replacements to read the thread.
4b. The second post was - "Let's attack the person who is most interested in having me post a defense"

All of this is still scummy behaviour.

FOS:pie_is_good

[jadesmar]

Fine, I am an innocent townsperson, I suppose you could do worse than lynching me.

[jadesmar]

What are the reasons for voting me again, that I was trying to be helpful in a newbie game during day 1 when we had nothing to go on.

You may note that now that I have suspicions, I am acting on them.

[jadesmar]

"and it bothers me a bit that jadesmar, though under scrutiny, just roleclaims instead of defending why he did what he did. "

Perhaps it's because I have nothing to hide.

I see no reason to defend myself of the accusation of being helpful, not voting when I had nothing to go on and um, was there a third thing. No?

As Corsato pointed out, I can not ask you to defend Feantur's actions. That however, does not mean that I find them any less suspicious.

[jadesmar]

EnPaceRequiescat: I see keeping the town from an accidental lynching as useful and helpful townie behaviour, I am not sure what you mean by "waiting game", if you mean that I was waiting for someone to do something scummy before voting.. well, sure, I will accept that I am guilty of that.

I accept that you can not defend that actions that I am voting you for. As mentioned before, the behaviour is still scummy. Thus, not defending the actions is not likely to change my mind. Apparently my vote is the only one on you now, so you can probably just go ahead and ignore it but, it is not changing unless someone else does something even more scummy.

[jadesmar]

IIRC no deadline existed or was threatened when those posts were made. Upon the threat of a deadline, my vote was cast, and look... there it is ... still there.

I then argued with the mod to get him to remove the deadline. Unlike your predecessor who did nothing and then suggested to the mod to post a deadline.

[jadesmar]

Ok, that's crap. If I did want a deadline, I would not have threatened to quit the game because the mod threatened a deadline.

[jadesmar]

"Because when it was jadesmar and I it was a simply ask and there was an answer." - willows_weep

willows_weep: It's probably because I didn't think you were scum, and thus did not look for alterior motives behind your attack on or questions to me.

[jadesmar]

Corsato: I have claimed, so, I hope you are not looking for too much more in my own defense.

[jadesmar]

Ok, then, as long as you know.

[jadesmar]

As you can tell, my real life sometimes interferes with my mafia playing (they like to keep the Engineering students busy around here). I am present, have no suspicions as of yet (especially with Corsato dead) but, I am quite pleased with my intuition over the events of yesterday.

The idea that the previous lynch was a mafia scheme may have some validity, if the mafia were able to talk to each other during the day or this game started at night. As it is, you will simply have to trust in my supreme mafia hunting skills

Or not, you could decide to lynch me, I find the trade of a townie for a mafia to be favourful, but there are better targets (like the actual mafia).

For those of you who claim that I had little to go on, that may have been true when the vote was cast, however, the defense presented by ETR was merely an attack on me. Something like a glorified OMGUS, but presented as if there were actual townie logic behind it.

I will re-read the thread Wednesday to see if I can find anything else. For now, I will attempt to keep up if anyone has any questions for me.

*goes back to studying for his Statistics midterm*

[jadesmar]

Rereading jadesmar's post today though, I don't think anyone mentioned accusations that you had little to go on.

OTOH, it did seem a bit too strong an attack because it wasn't that much to go on.

QED

[jadesmar]

What? I told you, if you suspect me of being mafia, please vote for me. I find the trade of a townie for a mafia useful. You should consider others first but, I won't hold it against you.

[jadesmar]

I should stop posting when I am drunk. Feel free to ignore my last post as the ramblings of an intoxicated fool.

[jadesmar]

Interesting, how does absence make me suspicious?

Now, had I posted somewhere else on the board, that would point out possible lurking. As it is, I have been absent from the Internet until today.

Appologies for my absence.

[jadesmar]

Fair enough.. I would imagine that should only apply to people who have net access during their non-posting period, but since that is difficult to assess, I find your suspicions reasonable.

[jadesmar]

Sure here's a thought:

FOS: Otaku376

Otaku376 started the day yesterday with a vote for willows_weep, he then switched to a vote for Feantur to provoke some conversation. Later Otaku376 removed this vote from Feantur. The curious thing is that Feantur did not post in the interim.

It may be possible that this is a mafia member trying to urge his fellow member to post and then giving up quickly when it was apparent that it was not working.

Suspicion obviously also comes from DP's list of curiousities (ie. a newbie would be more likely to kill Corsato + was probably already on the bandwagon)