Newbie 965 (Game Over)

[Uite]

Hi everyone!

First game for me too! At least on here, in this format. I've been playing face-to-face mafia for years now, so I'm curious how it compares.

[Uite]

I'm no great fan of random voting, so I'd like to propose the following list of questions:

1. Where you from?
2. Coke or Pepsi?
3. Are you nervous?
4. Whats your playstyle?And if you've never played before what would you do in a panicky situation?
5. Are you excited to play?
6. Lynch all lurkers?
7. Lynch all Liars?

[Uite]

My, aren't we confident today? Unfortunately for you, you're not entirely convincing. To me, you come across as overcompensating for something. Your lack of good intentions perhaps? Although I could be wrong here and that is just your general personality. It's not enough for me to vote just yet, so for now:

FoS: DavidParker

[Uite]

Also, I'd get an avatar but the lack of auto-resizing makes the system rather annoying. I don't think I have any images on my comp that qualify ATM.

Why not make one yourself? You could download the GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program, sort of like an open source Photoshop - http://www.gimp.org), take any image you want, maybe crop it, then scale it to max 100x100 pixels and 30 kB, and you're good to go.

[Uite]

@ Uite

Are you gonna answer your own questions?

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to ask me that.

So here are my answers:

1. I'm from the Netherlands
2. Coke, but I also really like a cold glass of plain water.
3. A little, I'm wondering if my playstyle is any good here.
4. Until now I've only played face-to-face Mafia, where my style is fairly agressive, but I tend to make decisions based on body language and tone of voice, which doesn't really work here. Also, I tend to explain myself a lot, because I'm used to being the veteran in a large group of newbies.
5. Very, I love Mafia and I'm curious how the forum game compares to the real life game.
6. Generally yes, if you're actively lurking you probably have something to hide. But if it's obvious it's because of RL stuff i'm more lenient.
7. Again, generally yes. Lying creates confusion, and confusion is bad for town. Cops and Doctors may sometimes have to lie to protect themselves, but that should usually be avoided.

[Uite]

There's definitely something wrong with your style there, DP. If anything, I trust you even less now.

vote: DavidParker

[Uite]

Look, my reasoning is simple. Ever since your first post (“strongest townie”, now “I will find the mafia”) you've been hinting that you're the cop, which may or may not be true. There might not even be a cop in this game (50% chance). On the other hand, as two of our players haven't posted yet, it's possible everyone who has said anything up till now is town. Bottom line, we can't really know anything just yet.

The way I see it there are three possibilities:

1:

You're truthful and are genuinely trying to help us. If that is the case, you're probably counting on the doctor to protect you, which is a bad gamble because we don't know if there is one (also 50% chance).

2:

You're a townie trying to get the mafia's attention in order to be nightkilled, making the mafia essentially waste a night by not killing a PR. Risky, because the deceit makes you look scummy.

3:

You're scum, trying to set up a roleclaim later in the game. My comment about deceit applies here as well, only now it's justified.

Weighing those options, coupled with your arrogant posturing and defensive/retaliatory stance, makes me lean towards the latter of the three.

Or I could be completely wrong and be overanalysing a collection of poorly thought out comments. In that case I'd like to warn you that you can't win the game by yourself and you need other people's support to achieve whatever you want to achieve.

[Uite]

All right, I'll go a bit easier on DP. I still don't really trust him, so until a good reason comes up to change my vote, it's still on DP.

[Uite]

Greetings AGar!

To answer your question, it's because I think enough has been said to get a decent read on him. Also, I think the pounding on DP is drawing the attention away from the other players, among whom scum is still hiding. It doesn't change any of my suspicions, just my focus.

[Uite]

In response to your questions, DP, in all cases, I would think very hard about my next move and motivations for it and not go by any suggestions. Unfortunately in this situation, following other people's advice seems to me a scummy thing to do, because it allows you an easy way out, without proving anything.

All right, more questions for our crew!

@DavidParker
You're contradicting yourself in post #33. NS's vote seemed random, which was later confirmed. Yet you used it as an excuse to hop on a bandwagon that didn't really exist. How come?

@dRool89
Where are you?

@mallowgeno
In post #17 you already claimed town, and implied you look generally scummy. A necessary precaution, or trying to throw us off?

@quadz08
Why are you so reluctant to vote?

@silverbullet999
Why did you want me and DP to reconcile? To me that seems like you're trying to protect him.

@Wraith
Why did you want to No Lynch? Even if you're don't think you're good at catching scum, there are eight other players, of whom three are veterans here, who might get at something working together.

[Uite]

Allright. What are your reasons for thinking him scummy then? You mentioned gut feeling, but that alone isn't enough.

Also, I'd like to say asking for advice like that tends to confuse matters. However, for the sake of the argument, I'll answer your questions.

If VT: Scumhunt like crazy. You're at L-1, odds are good at least one scum put you there.
If Cop: Claim, you really don't want to die.
If Scum: Either fakeclaim or scumhunt, anything to make you look innocent.

So unfortunately, in my case it wouldn't really tell anything until we get more information.

Furthermore:

@mallowgeno
Why are you so eager to get a bandwagon on DP?

@quadz08
You say you'd rather not have DP no matter what. Although I think he's very scummy, if he turns out to be town I'd rather have him with us than other scum we could have lynched.

[Uite]

I'm glad to see you've changed your spiel. It's also true that most of the discussion has been between the two of us. Applying pressure, as I've been doing to you, is a good way to find out were people stand by looking at their reactions. Such as how the person under pressure behaves, and how the others go with that.

I'd also like to note that we haven't had much contribution by Wraith, AGar and, to a lesser extent, Nobody Special. I'd like to see more of their opinions.

[Uite]

Unvote: DavidParker

I don't want to risk this day ending early.

[Uite]

I'd like to add that I don't find DP's claim believable. His rage looks genuine to me, and I don't think he's an idiot, but he has been contradicting himself.

I unvoted because, considering his recent behaviour, anyone could hammer him on the basis of not wanting to play with a jerk. I really don't want that to happen. Although he's by far the most scummy looking player, I want to keep the possibility open that we've all been wrong, and that he's simply been drawing flak for the team.

@NS: I'm sorry if I seem overly pushy for people to respond quickly. That probably comes from my experience in face-to-face Mafia. If you can look someone in the eye and it takes them longer than a few seconds...

@SB: I think my unvote answered your question

[Uite]

Looking back and reading mallow's posts really doesn't put him in a good light. Some observations:

• He tried to quicklynch a (suggested) possible cop. Before the emotional outburst.
• He seems to buddy up to quadz, and appears to know something about his alignment.
• His three possible scenarios for tonight seem to assume there's a roleblocker.

My thoughts on the above observations:

• Trying to work someone out of the game on page 2 a mere 27 hours after it opened? Very scummy.
• The posts aimed at quadz seem almost conversational, while his other posts look much more like someone playing the game. I'm definitely sensing a link. Whether it is only a result of fate or just mallow's style, I dare not say yet.
• He appears to know something about people's alignment. There's only one possible way that can be true.

Also this quote (and this was when the heat was entirely on DP):

Scum actually GIVE REASONS for why they suspect someone. They don't just say "oh I fos mallowgeno/quadz"

WTF? In my experience, it's the other way around!

[Uite]

@DavidParker

I really can't decide who to vote. Mallow has suddenly gotten a lot of scumpoints, but you do still score pretty high with me. And I'm getting an either/or vibe, which I think is a bit dangerous. Also, I'm getting suspicious of AGar, who has hardly posted anything so far.

My sense of humour is telling me to vote for you based on the specific wording of your request though, but that would be silly.

@Jeffcole1

Any word on dRool89 yet? Also, I was wondering, when we started the game with one unconfirmed player, was that him?

[Uite]

I see no reason to lynch an ucced cop claim. If someone else wants to cc then go for it.

Are you trying to determine who the real cop is here?

Also, you keep referring to our upcoming night phase and roleblockers. How did you get that knowledge?

I think you've been making mistake after mistake, so:

Vote: mallowgeno

[Uite]

Are you trying to determine who the real cop is here?

So you're saying that DP is scum? Or are soft claiming?

I'm saying I don't know and neither do you, or anybody but the cop himself, for that matter. What I meant with that sentence specifically was that I thought you were trying to confirm whether DP's claim was true, and in the case it was not, who it would then be. What I was implying was that you were trying to figure out who to off. I don't know who the cop is. DP could be, but I'm not convinced. And frankly, I don't

want

to know who the cop is, and neither should you.

[Uite]

Greetings Beefster!

Today's been a bit slow, but a new player is great news!

[Uite]

Clearly, Uite is the most evil of all players [/sarcasm]

I like to think of myself as something like a panda. Looks cute and cuddly, usually acts cute and cuddly too, but immensely strong and quite capable of mauling you. Me evil? Only when you're on my bad side.

Anyways, right now Wraith seems like a bit of a scumball

I agree that some of his actions looked vaguely scummy, but honestly, I'm inclined to attribute that to his inexperience.

[Uite]

You're right, I have changed my style a bit. This is my first game in this format, and I'm trying out different styles to find the one (or ones) I am most comfortable with. I'm sorry if this leads to any missed opportunities or some other inconvenience.

Also, I've just gotten home from the spring ball, and dawn is breaking, so I'm a bit tired and not really clear. My comment about myself was more about the real life me. In other real life news, I did help an old lady get her stroller back when I was walking home.

All right, enough is enough. This is Uite, signing off!

[Uite]

B. If I were scum, I couldn't have strategized with my partner because night phase has occured yet.

Which is of course untrue. You've posted plenty of messages that can be viewed as a veiled attempt to discuss strategy with your partner in crime.

[Uite]

I'm sorry I haven't been very active lately, but I haven't been feeling that well the past few days. Catching up and re-reading what had been said, I've got a few comments I'd like to make.

@AGar: Post more!

@Nobody Special: Why did you vote silverbullet999 in post #148? It didn't seem to have any real justification, and there were people with more obvious cases against them.

@mallowgeno: I'm repeating SB and NS here, but why the defeatist attitude? Your lynch is not certain yet! There's plenty you can do helping us with our investigations if you're town, or aiding your buddy if you're scum. Remember, you don't lose if you die, you lose only if your team loses.

Also, generally, I have a question about strategy. Right now, some strong cases have been made, and I'm wondering when would be a good time for the hammer to fall. If we lynch now, we get a lot of information; at least one player will have his allegiance revealed, and we can start analysing actual voting behaviour. On the other hand, we still have almost two weeks till deadline, and that is a lot of time for good discussions. It seems to me that it is a situation of diminishing returns though, so ultimately my question is: is there a good quick-and-dirty solution for when to let the day end?

Finally, people, please include the person you're quoting in your quote tag! Reading back, it gets very hard to follow an argument if you don't immediately get who it's about! This goes triple when read in iso. In case you don't know:

Code: Select all

[quote="Uite"]blahblah[/quote]

gives you this:

blahblah

[Uite]

I asked because that alone seemed like not much of a reason to justify a vote. I agree silverbullet was wrong there, but nothing that would earn a vote from me without other evidence against him. So what I intended to ask was more along the lines of "were there any

other

reasons to vote, beyond what you stated".

About DP, I noticed that as well, and I wanted to ask about it, but in the process of composing my last post I somehow dropped it. Anyway, as I have said before, I have never fully believed DP's claim, and he still scores high on my scumdar. I'm actually a bit worried that the other players have seemed to let him off the hook and have overlooked his earlier scummy behaviour. I'm not speculating on any scumteams until after we get any real information. I fully believe no-one should ever be trusted about anything they say until it is irrefutably clear what side they are on, which unfortunately is only possible after they are dead and their role is revealed. Trusting anyone gives them a prime opportunity to manipulate you. In short, trust no-one, weigh the evidence yourself, and remember:

they

are watching!

[Uite]

To clarify, my previous post was in response to NS. Wraith managed to triple post in the time it took me to write that.

@Wraith regarding my PSA: Was that genuine or sarcasm? It's hard to tell from just text.

Also, DP doesnt have any votes on him right now, so I guess he feels safe. Should he?

Hell, even posting evidence there doesn't seem to be a way to show people someone is scum.

I kinda have this problem with quadz. I've read the arguments, and rationally I agree with them, but emotionally I don't get what all the fuss is about. I just don't feel it.

In regards to voting. My vote is currently on mallow, and I like it there, but would he be a smart lynch? DP doesn't seem to think so, but to me, anyone who's had the heat on him would be a good choice, as we can analyse what has been said about them a lot better than those who have hardly seen any discussion. To me that means either DP, mallow or quadz. Unfortunately, this would favour lurkers and people replacing in, i.e. AGar and Beefster, which is totally unfair.

I'd like to see more heat on AGar, because of his general lurkiness!

[Uite]

I'm used to short days therefore I don't believe a bandwagon is a scummy thing to do.

I'm not following the logic. Why does the one lead to the other?

@AGar: It's all relative of course. Mafia is a social game, and if you're not like everyone else, you're different. Scum is inherently different, so people tend to correlate. Also, I disagree on your level of game content production. Yes, you've put something in nearly every post, but most of that has been in the form of general playing tips. While useful, they don't directly contribute to us finding the scum that is hiding amongst us, which is what I would want you to be doing.

[Uite]

@AGar: It's all relative of course. Mafia is a social game, and if you're not like everyone else, you're different. Scum is inherently different, so people tend to correlate. Also, I disagree on your level of game content production. Yes, you've put something in nearly every post, but most of that has been in the form of general playing tips. While useful, they don't directly contribute to us finding the scum that is hiding amongst us, which is what I would want you to be doing.

I guess this is a matter of perspective. I see content that progresses the game in 3 of the posts, and useful tips that could be effective to assist in scumhunting in 2 more.

I guess you're right. My bottom line is, I'd like to see more of your posts.

B. If I were scum, I couldn't have strategized with my partner because night phase has occured yet.

I pointed this out before. And as he's claiming very hard he's not a newb, I'm inclined to see this as an attempt to mislead us.

[Uite]

I'm fairly sure mallowgeno makes a better lynch than Wraith, regardless of actual guilt. For one, mallow seems far scummier. He's been very dishonest, and can be linked to a lot of players. Wraith, not so much. Ultimately, I think we'll have more to go on with a mallow flip.

Regarding rules and buddy communication, there's plenty that's been said within this thread that can be interpreted as discussing strategy with a buddy.

Also, I'm finding DP's insistence on mallow's innocence suspicious. I've seen a lot of very scummy things from mallow, and presumably DP has seen the same things. And yet, his opinion is completely different. Strange.

FoS: DavidParker

[Uite]

Bah! Good luck fellow townies!

[Uite]

Congratulations! Great game!

I was killed early, so most of the game I just watched from the sidelines, but it was a good game to watch. I'm curious why I was the choice for the first nightkill though. I didn't particularly suspect either of you during the first day, and said as much.

[Uite]

I like how your tone is so completely different right now. You sound very relaxed, almost like a guy chilling at the bar, recalling his war stories. I plan on hanging around for a while so there's a good chance I'll eventually encounter you as scum. What I don't really get was how you got a Doc vibe from me. A doc would hang back a bit more, while I got pretty vocal at times, so I'm curious

[Uite]

I don't agree with your falseclaiming doing no harm. Your claim was very dodgy, and especially the way you backtracked during day two made you look very bad, and got you lynched. I think this distracted the town, because they could have been analysing other players more, and possibly lynching scum. In this game things went right in the end, but you can't be sure of that in every game you play.