Newbie 965 (Game Over)

[Wraith]

NobodySpecial is obviously trying to hide something.

Vote: NobodySpecial

I've played a couple-three games off-site, hosted a few more. I'm still not that good at playing yet.

[Wraith]

1. East Coast USA
2. Coke
3. No
4. I wing it, haven't played enough to have a specific style
5. Sure
6. No, because I usually lurk when I have nothing useful to say. That might have to change, though
7. I'd say yes, but I just did a game of Dethy where a Cop lied rather effectively, so I'm split ATM

[Wraith]

Also, I'd get an avatar but the lack of auto-resizing makes the system rather annoying. I don't think I have any images on my comp that qualify ATM.

[Wraith]

Yay, got an avatar. Didn't know you could use advanced search to find specific sizes, so thanks NS. For that, retract randomvote.

Unvote

Also, I personally would like to know mallowgeno's reasoning for voting for DavidParker (the first time), or was that first time just a randomvote?

[Wraith]

Also, y'all are awful twitchy. We

have

had three FoS already, so why are you getting a scumdar alert from quadz based on two posts?

[Wraith]

Bah, I always hate Day One's (when I'm playing. It's quite amusing to watch as a host). It's always random voting and people grabbing at straws.

Can we vote No Lynch in this game?

[Wraith]

@AGar: No, no suspicions. While waiting for my account to be validated I did some reading up in different games. I discovered that I'm not very good at spotting scum. At all.

[Wraith]

Meh, I may not be good at spotting scum, but David currently giving me the scummiest reading. Since we've gotta vote someone...

Vote: DavidParker

[Wraith]

Also, the town should never never never NEVER no lynch on Day 1. In all variants of newbie games (Pie E7, C9, Original and the current F11 setup), when a no-lynch has occurred on Day 1, Mafia wins 15 out of 18 times.

Alright. My vote stands, then.

[Wraith]

Sorry if I seem to be lurking. I DO have school every day, and Prom was last weekend, so I've been busy. Be back with actual contribution when I'm done catching up.

[Wraith]

To answer DP's questions:

1. Mallow said don't fight it because you're expendable. I say don't fight it because it can draw out the scum. Since we've kind of paused the hammer vote, it can be easy to try to make a scum player slip up.

2. Claim. If you die, you did nothing to help the town. You'll at least get the Doc to help you (there is a Doc in a game with a Cop) or force the scum to NK you.

3. I'm not giving advice to you if you're a scum player.

@Uite: Keeping my options open. Day 1 is always grabbing at straws, as I've said. And I feel especially guilty about contributing to the death of a player on Day 1 of their first game.

@quadz: Basically AGar's statement, which I quoted in my last post if it wasn't already clear. I'd rather take a chance than practically guarantee a scum win.

My own little analysis:

Keeping it basic, we have 2 major feuds - mallow vs DP, and DP vs quadz. DP is currently giving me a scum reading, as stated. Because I am assuming DP is scum, mallow gives me the "reckless townie" vibe, and quadz just the "wrongly accused" read. I get a pro-town feeling for Uite, definitely, since he seems to be trying to scumhunt like crazy. AGar is pro-town IMO, but I don't have much on that end. Haven't seen enough from NS to get a feel for his side.

[Wraith]

DP claimed? I thought that was hypothetical.

[Wraith]

Yeah, I'd hammer now if I had an extra vote. I'm sick of hearing him flame everyone.

[Wraith]

Well, hammer's out of the question at this point since I believe two people have unvoted. Still, I think I'm gonna keep my vote where it is unless someone slips up, because at this point I'm not sure I care which side he's on.

[Wraith]

@silver: About three or four that I've played, I believe.

[Wraith]

@DP: I'm not sure at this point now, since you actually seem civil now. Now that the others are putting up defending arguments for you, mallow is looking a lot more scummy than you did earlier.

At first I thought mallow was just being reckless, but his arguments (especially for the OMGUS) are very weak, and his original reasoning for voting you was weak in the first place. My vote on DP was motivated originally because

DP

had been replying with weak defense, but Uite and NS have valid points. Mallow's attempt to deflect suspicion with the "only mafia give reasons for voting" is very weak, seemingly desperate.

However, I am still confused as to whether DP actually claimed cop or hypothetically claimed cop.

As for my address to mallow's "only mafia give reasons" argument, I'd have to say that both town and mafia do give reasons for voting, but scum players often slip up by overdoing it in their attempt to blend in.

Right now, the attacks on mallow have shifted by reads. I think DP MIGHT have been falsely accused (I do believe he and mallow are opposite alignments), I think mallow is scum, I think NS and AGar are town. I'm pretty certain Uite is town from all his responses. I pretty split on quadz though. I don't know what to think about his alignment.

[Wraith]

Whoops, forgot to switch vote.

Unvote

Vote: mallowgeno

[Wraith]

@ Wraith, what makes you so sure mallow and I are different alignments? Just because we are the 2 most suspicious? I mean from my POV it's perfectly plausible that we are both town....

And as much as I'd like to pretend I didn't claim cop... If you go back and read you'll notice I did.

I'm also yet to really get any read from AGaR, which slightly worries me.

@DP: It's just my opinion. You two were going at it too much to just be two scum distancing yourselves from each other, and both players' responses had major scum readings. Hence, my belief that one of you is scum and the other is town.

@silver: I didn't want to end the day early. I put my vote down fairly early because DP was reading scummy to me.

[Wraith]

Also, in all the games I've played in/hosted, the scum players don't usually go inactive Day 1, so I'm not really concerned about dRool's alignment. Scum players usually want to start getting down and dirty ASAP, because it's fun being evil (as video games show )

[Wraith]

Ha, come to think of it, I might be wrong reading AGar as town based on the one post about No Lynch statistics. He may be scum trying to subtly lead us into a mislynch.

[Wraith]

Speaking of misinterpretations, there's silver's comment on the earlier questions about the "extra vote hammer." Either you're not reading or you're digging for scumduggery, my bet's on the latter. Let's talk about that vote and that question. I initially voted DP because he was the scummiest player at the time. I said I would hammer if I had the extra vote because he was being a jerk at the time. I switched my vote because not only has DP stopped being a jerk (blatantly at least, he still jabs at people subtly, but don't we all?) but also because mallow has emerged as a scummier player. That answer your analysis?

[Wraith]

@SB: Here's the thing: If a player truly is scummy, even when you point out what they're doing that's perceived as scummy, and they stop that, there will be more (usually).

All we have to do is find the next scummy thing they do.

For wanting to keep his information to himself,

unvote

Vote: silverbullet999

Since when is keeping info to yourself a scummy thing to do?!? You cannot trust anyone unless they're clear. Keeping info to yourself is a smart thing to do especially if you're on the lead of a scum. Pointing out their mistakes makes them stop doing that mistake.

People asked why I hate Day Ones. This is why. We're already arguing against arguments than were made against arguments.

[Wraith]

Exactly.

[Wraith]

I have nothing useful to contribute at the moment, just maintaining my vote against mallow. I think Uite and NS make sound cases against him and further justify my suspicions.

[Wraith]

Now that he has actually posted, I am content with saying Hi Beefster as well.

[Wraith]

Clearly, Uite is the most evil of all players [/sarcasm]

[Wraith]

I think he was referring to the post silverbullet made before him.

[Wraith]

I don't appreciate your baseless accusations. Luckily for you, mallow being scummier at the moment overtakes priority from an OMGUS vote.

[Wraith]

@silver: Why wouldn't it? Would YOU appreciate being accused of being scum?

@Beefster: If I wasn't already voting for a scummier player I'd probably vote for DP, not only because he also seems scummy to me but also because he's accusing me of scum, probably in retaliation for voting for him earlier in the day.

[Wraith]

@Wraith

@silver: Why wouldn't it? Would YOU appreciate being accused of being scum?

There's a difference between being offended by it and disliking it. To me you being offended on makes me think you think one of two things

1.I am town and I have been playing rather townie (haven't been doing much to be scummy)... so why the hell do you think I'm town
2.I am scum and I have been playing rather townie(haven't been doing much to be scummy)... so how the hell does he know I'm scum.

I'm not offended, I'd call it annoyed. Like I said, I think he's just trying to get back at me for voting for him earlier.

[Wraith]

I did help an old lady get her stroller back when I was walking home.

All right, enough is enough. This is Uite, signing off!

More evidence of evil, scummy behavior from this master manipulator.

[Wraith]

I'm not going to play word games with you. I have to need to defend my actions or my words, you only need to stop taking them out of context and making assumptions.

[Wraith]

Excuse me, made a typo in there (might see that often because I type really fast). Sentence:

"I have no need to defend my actions or my words..."

[Wraith]

Triple Post. Warning: Long Post ahead

Alright, reading over the whole topic again, my scumdar is starting to spark on mallowgeno. I'm starting to steadily believe DP is genuinely the cop (I might have been jumping the gun on paranoia by implying I would OMGUS him for merely accusing me) and I think mallow was looking for easy targets at the start to mislynch. We start with his randomvote of DP, then he FoS'd me. By Post 30, he set his sights firmly on getting DP lynched.

Lol! You're such a hypocrite! You say that he followed his fos on you because I voted for you. But now you're voting for quadz after Silver just did!

Vote DavidParker

At Post 41, he becomes a hypocrite by accusing DP of baseless accusations while accusing DP of scumminess for "making pointless statements"

@I hate to say it but...

Attacking someone for no good reason IS something to get your panties in a bunch.

Getting back to the game...

I would like to point out that David is stating pointless statements such as this one:

DavidParker wrote:
Like me or not, I will find the mafia.

I've played on another site with real-time mafia. This seems scummy to me.

Now, with him and quadz, we have two possibilities:

1. He and quadz are the scumteam
2. He is buddying up to quadz

Posts 46 and 48 set off some serious alarms.

You gonna bw on DavidParker? Or do ya need some more evidence?

Band Wagon. Jump on board for voting David Parker

His evidence earlier to this was little more than DP's attitude. Someone clearly wanted the day to end early with a lynch, probably a mislynch. The latter quote is him responding to quadz and attempting to convince him to BW DP. I feel that this is evidence that mallow is buddying quadz, as if they were a scumteam, quadz would have immediately jumped on board, I think.

Post 55 here might be taken out of context a little, but the rest of it is still suspicious.

No we cannot. We have a ml therefore we will use it.

@Agar

Welcome! I was beginning to think our SEs weren't coming. I have a feeling the other will be replaced. And a bandwagon isn't necessarily a bad thing. From my experience, the slower the bw, the more likely they are scum.

I don't know what he meant by "ML," although the only thing I know that can stand for is "Mislynch." However, even a noob scum player wouldn't be stupid enough to blatantly state that he is attempting a mislynch, so I'm inclined to believe it stands for something else. Anyways, he was attempting to persuade me to vote for DP (and succeeded, actually). His logic is wrong for BWs - the faster the BW, the more likely it is scum, especially if they are attempting to quickly persuade everyone else to jump on board.

In Post 71, we have mallow questioning DP's suspicion of quadz for the first time. He's either trying to shift suspicion from his partner or putting his buddyship in concrete. Post 72 consists of his answers to DP's questions:

If you're a VT in my position, what would you do?

I would probably not fight the lynch. If I die then that means that a pr is still alive and didn't get outed. And, because almost a majority of the town suspects me of being mafia, it won't get me lynched at lylo when it really matters.

If you're the detective in my position, what would you do?

I wouldn't have been dumb enough to get myself into this position in the first place. When you're a pr you shouldn't act so scummy.

If you're scrum in my position, what would you do?

I don't know because I'm no good at getting out of positions when I'm scum. Scum actually GIVE REASONS for why they suspect someone. They don't just say "oh I fos mallowgeno/quadz".

He's obviously trying to make lynching DP easier, telling him not to fight if he's pro-town, not giving advice at all if he's the cop, and giving false logic for if he's scum. Scum DON'T give reasons for voting for people - they give vague "evidence" and BW up, but they often attempt to act cautious (and usually overdo it) to attempt to appear town.

Post 95 is mallow's second questioning of DP's suspicion for quadz (although DP hadn't yet answered that first questioning). Still trying to either shift suspicion or keep buddying up quadz. Either way, he's trying to keep DP on the back foot long enough to get DP to slip up and get hammered. He repeats his scummy reading of DP in Post 96, which, upon review of the early game, has very little actual evidence beyond poor attitude.

By Post 113, the BW against DP is coming apart because of NS's help in making DP civil again. In a strange maneuver, he keeps the FoS (not literally stated) on DP while unvoting, and attempting to court quadz's vote (who never jumped on the DP bandwagon at that point).

quadz08 wrote:

@those who see me as scummy:
Can I get an explanation for it? I'm honestly confused as to why that vibe is coming off.

I agree completely with you quadz. I've been wanting one for some time now.

unvote

Here's my theory. One of the following will happen tonight:

1. DP gets roleblocked and someone else is killed
2. DP gets killed
3. DP stays alive and claims he got roleblocked, but he's mafia.

Therefore I'm looking elsewhere for my first lynch.

His logic is totally contradictory (FoSing DP while "looking elsewhere" for the lynch) and I believe he is trying to distance himself from a sinking ship (the BW against DP). His wording also set off alarms: "for my first lynch." He obviously wants one of his BWs to be the lynch.

At this point, I believe mallow's newbieness is snagging his play. He wants a BW against DP, but since that failed, he'll just hook on to any good BW (as NS pointed out). Not a good strategy, and especially because it sets off alarms. In Post 121 he OMGUS voted NS. In Post 145 he again attempts to defend his unvote of DP:

Here's my reasoning for not wanting to vote for DP anymore:
-He's not the only scum, if he is scum. There's at least one more out there.
-I see no reason to lynch an ucced cop claim. If someone else wants to cc then go for it.
-Mafia will kill him tonight most likely if there is no roleblocker. If there is a roleblocker they will block him to make him look scummier. If there is no roleblocker, he's dead tonight.

This is some of the strangest logic I've ever seen (I am assuming "ucced" means unconfirmed). If he is positive DP is scum, then why in hell is he NOT voting for him? A scum can't get night-killed, so there's no other way to kill a scum player. If you are inclined to believe his claim (which he called bogus in an earlier post) then why are you still attempting to put suspicion on him? As for the last point, if there is a cop, there is a doctor, and the doctor has no better target to protect than a cop claim. An attack on a cop claim would be a waste of a night kill without the doctor dead. If you believe he is the cop, again, why are attempting to put suspicion on him? If you want him lynched, why are you unvoting him? (I'm confusing myself while typing this) At this point mallow is obviously panicking and attempting to shift suspicion off himself in every way possible.

Post 152:

Since when is keeping info to yourself a scummy thing to do?!? You cannot trust anyone unless they're clear. Keeping info to yourself is a smart thing to do especially if you're on the lead of a scum. Pointing out their mistakes makes them stop doing that mistake.

Half-right, half-wrong. If you keep ALL your information to yourself, then the town won't have any evidence to suspect someone. Here he is attempting to stop people from analyzing his, and other players', actions.

In Post 164 he attacks Uite for analyzing his posts:

Uite wrote:

mallowgeno wrote:
I see no reason to lynch an ucced cop claim. If someone else wants to cc then go for it.

Are you trying to determine who the real cop is here?

Also, you keep referring to our upcoming night phase and roleblockers. How did you get that knowledge?

I think you've been making mistake after mistake, so:

Vote: mallowgeno

Wow, all I said was there MAY be a roleblocker. IF there is or DP is scum, he WILL live.

Here mallow seems pretty confident that DP will live if there is a roleblocker. Have he and his scumpartner already strategized for the night phase?

In Post 169 he accuses NS of an OMGUS vote (which is clearly not an OMGUS vote), attempting to shift suspicion off himself.

In Post 170 he somehow gets a message that Uite is doubting DP's claim:

Uite wrote:
Are you trying to determine who the real cop is here?

So you're saying that DP is scum? Or are soft claiming?

Again, trying to shift suspicion off himself to DP.

By Post 178, he votes for Quadz.

Welcome Beefster. Come and stir the pot.

Vote: Quadz

After sb's soliloquy, I think that Quadz could quite possibly be scum.

Oh and just a point of future reference for when I get lynched, I told you so. I'm a scummy player, that's just who I am.

This is an obvious attempt to get back "in" with the town crowd, since quadz is going down in flames for seeming very scummy. At this point he's either succeeded in his attempt to buddy up with quadz or is bussing his teammate. Either way, he's attempting to throw suspicion off himself once again, doubly so with the last comment.

Alright, there's my giant-ass analysis, maintaining once again that mallow is scum. In fact, my scumdar might be less merely sparking than shooting sparks all over the place.

[Wraith]

Dang, dude, I don't think I'm wrong with my conclusion that you and mallow are on opposite sides, but I don't know why you're trying to find something wrong with every one of my posts. Yeah, if my analysis here is wrong then I'm going to take a lot of heat, but mallow's played so scummy a game thus far that one, I don't think I'm wrong, and two, it's his own fault the votes have gotten this far. I've outlined PLENTY of reasons that mallow can be scum, one of which especially is the quicklynch attempt (a major scumtell).

Anyways, my reads at the moment on everyone:

1. mallowgeno: scumdar shooting sparks
2. silverbullet: pro-town, scumhunter extraordinaire
3. quadz08: It's a toss-up, but doing that analysis (especially with mallow's vote against him) I'm inclined to think he was a townie who fell for buddying
4. Uite: pro-town, scumhunter
5. DavidParker: leaning pro-town, but he seems hell-bent on hunting for scum that aren't there
6. AGar: neutral. I think he needs to participate some more
7. Beefster: Leaning pro-town, need more posts to decide
8: NS: Leaning pro-town

[Wraith]

And to reply to one of DP's earlier comments: of course it's beneficial to me to play stupider than I actually am initially. Yeah, I still am not the best scumhunter, but my scumdar wasn't made in 1942. I can see the obvious, and I can show the obvious to my comrades.

[Wraith]

@Beefster: I had suspicions on silver myself a while ago, thinking he could be scumteam with someone else (I think it was DP I was considering to be his partner). However, because a mallow/quadz or mallow/someone else scumteam is definitely more likely, I view silver as a very zealous scumhunter.

[Wraith]

I though quadz voted? I might be wrong.

[Wraith]

@DP: I'm not sure I follow your logic, or AGar's either. Apparently, "sitting on the fence" and waiting for people to slip up so there is evidence that they are scum makes ME scum, yet when I do scumhunt using evidence of extremely scummy play, I'm also scum? What logic is this again?

[Wraith]

Well, I tend to get concerned when I have two votes on me. I'd like to think you'd get concerned when a BW in the making is on you (and you did). I was just going to point out faulty logic and leave it at that. But if you want to play the "reiterating your actions so you don't look scummy because you're actually scum" game I can play too.

Post 33:

I didn't reveal who I found most suspicious until I saw someone else agreed (unless it was a random vote).. Why? Because I was hoping he would further confirm my suspicions by acting even scummier. I assumed by voting for him that implied Nobody Special found him suspicious as well.

Regardless, I put a second vote on someone.. So what? The first was an unexplained random vote.. Or a vote based on suspicions that weren't explained, I decided to go on that and vote as well and explain why I found him fishy. It's just the vibe I got. Which is all I have to go on at the moment, and the discussion being created.

If I had to take a guess right now I'd guess that Nobody Special is mafia with quadz. Obviously, that's a huge longshot, but that's the best longshot I see at the moment.

At this point you had 2-3 votes on yourself for your attitude, primarily. You are defending your own actions in an attempt to get people off your back.

Post 69 concerns your questions to get help as to how you should get the scumhunters off your back. And later on people were criticizing quadz for asking a very similar question - basically, "how can I act more pro-town?"

THat aside, I think I was too hasty too point out some of my suspicions. Instead of getting the discussion I wanted (And pointing out that I did find quadz to be most suss, although really it wasn't based on much but the impression I got from him) I've just got people asking me to explain myself. Nothing really to help me with my scrum hunting. But that's been my own folly, game's here follow a different structure to games I've played on other sites, and I probably should have just been a learner than someone trying to get "too involved".

And this part of that post is you explaining your actions up to that point.

In Post 70, you continue to defend your actions and attempting to get people off your back by saying that focusing on you will draw suspicion from "actual scum players." Also, I think this is when you put down your cop claim.

Post 76:

I said I had already decided what I was going to do, and was asking you what you would do to find out more, my form of "scum hunting". I wasn't going to followin anyone's advice, although chances are what I do will be what someone answers.

My questions were designed to figure out more about you guys and "scum-hunt".

Again, "reiterating your actions." Also, rereading, Post77 is starting up my scumdar again:

@Uite, I knew the bandwagon didn't exist, that was my attempt to start one.

Early lynch is a major scumtell, which a lot of people seem to have ignored. However, mallow's play, and early lynch attempt, is twenty times scummier than yours.

Let's talk about your logic (and AGar's). I have not "sat on the fence" since about Page 3. I "sat on the fence" until someone's scummy play earned my vote, in which case it was you, at first. Then mallow caused my scumdar to go off the charts so I changed my votes. Your accusations that I've "sat on the fence" too hard and are therefore scum are null. Now, quadz has tried to sit on the fence too hard, in my opinion, and you reiterate your suspicions in Post 85:

@uite, my reasons include him trying too hard to sit back on the fence. I read his posts from a scum point of view and it makes sense as to how he's trying to play it smart. He knows I'm not scum so he's not jumping onto this bandwagon, he's waiting for other people to justify it, so if he can get involved he's not responsible in any way.

He seems to point out some obvious points: ie that statement which is always true, and then adds that we should wait for dRool in case he's that "more scummy" person... He's an "experienced player" (whatver the acronym here is), if he's mafia, you have a 0/100 chance he will come in here and do something suspicious when all the heat is on me. Why you would even think he's going to come in here and turn himself into a target makes no sense.

He's pointing out how many agree with his position, and just can't stick by his own justification.

Post 84 shows you reiterating (for the third or fourth time) your suspicions of people who stay neutral.

Just browsing through these games, they can just be characterised by people staying as neutral as possible... Which seems to me ridiculous. People all just try analyze critically stuff when there's nothing there. The mafia game at it's core is a guessing game. You have to make guesses and have convictions, if everyone does everything just via neutrality and careful analysis, then you get no where. Every lynch is "justified" and mafia never have any responsibility if they do the same thing the town does. By actually posting a case against someone for little, but doing so that you don't back down, you can learn a lot more than this hurr durr DP is suss for being arrogant etc. This isn't creating any discussion or helping scum hunting at all (unless of course if I am scum). But by focusing on people for reasons people won't agree with you can learn something

People, let's be reasonable. It's Day One. Day ONE. The only evidence we have at this point against anyone are the wording of posts, attitudes, and voting patterns. No one has died yet, so we don't know alignments, and we can't assume guilt by association or vote patterns yet. People are going to be neutral, because there is just not enough evidence to convince some people by wording alone. I'm not one of them. Mallow has played an extremely scummy game so far, and a few others have as well (quadz and DP in particular). With such scummy play by these players, you can't just lynch someone based on "oh they've stayed neutral they must be scum try to blend in too hard." I consider that a scumtell if they still sit on the fence on Day 2 onward.

Post 89, this is where DP starts getting angry:

So... you're saying we shouldn't analyze, and make random guesses? That sounds like a plea from someone who knows their play doesn't stand up to analysis to me.

HAHAHA this is where I lost myself. Was laughing so hard as I read your post.. You're "GODLIKE ANALYSIS" has led the town into lynching the cop you retarded inbred.

GOOD ANALYSIS MATE

Honestly, I don't think a single person here has any idea what they're doing, no one even puts effort into their analysis. Hence the terrible poopy not making sense etc. This isn't worth my time, just lynch me.

fuck your reasoning, but I just can't take these terrible ideas like voting people for retarded reasons. A ploy? How about this, I'm the detective. Yes, game ruined. We all happy?

Here you're firing back against people who are voting against you. Apparently, I'm scum because I'm doing the same thing to you and AGar. Hypocritical logic much?

There we go. You've accused me of being a scumbag for firing back against accusations/votes and for supposedly "sitting on the fence." Your relentless attacks against me (which are hypocritical, considering you've used the same defenses as I've outlined above) cause me to draw two conclusions as to your motives:

1. You've either targeted me for a mislynch today or another day
2. You're retaliating for my earlier post

Despite the huge amount of evidence I've compiled against mallowgeno, you seem determined to attack ME? That's a scumtell to me, called the Chainsaw Defense, in which a scum partner attacks those who attack his partner. At this point I'm rather certain that mallow is scum. If he flips town, he played so scummy it's his own fault. If he flips scum, I was on the mark. Either way, stop searching for half-assed reasons to accuse me and look at who's

really

playing scummy here. Unless you already know.

[Wraith]

I'm rather annoyed that the people who are voting for me are:

1. Ignoring major scumtells on mallow (early lynch, BW<<<<this just flashes red to me)
2. Insisting that my defense of myself is scummy. We're at the tipping point here, and apparently attempting to keep myself from getting killed is a scumtell.
3. Believing DP's case over mine. His entire case is based around the vague ambiguity that I am trying to blend in as town too much. I've pointed out several scumtells that mallow has slipped up with. The only case DP has against me is that I'm defending myself against lynch.

[Wraith]

@Uite: Thanks. In all my years of forumgoing I never figured out how to do that.

[Wraith]

Triple Post, whoops

@NS: For a long time I was totally certain that DP and mallow were in no way the scum team together (although one could be scum), but recently my faith in that theory has been shaken by DP's steadfast refusal to see mallow's obvious scumminess and his firm belief that mallow is town.

[Wraith]

@Uite: Like I've said before, after re-reading the topic DP didn't actually act scummy until recently, so I've believed his cop claim for a while now. However, like I said, my faith in that claim might be slipping.

Also, if we keep evidence to ourselves, two things might happen:

1. We'll get voted by NS for keeping evidence to ourselves (although he doesn't seem to care either way, hypocritically enough)
2. There is no way a majority can be shown that someone is scum. Hell, even posting evidence there doesn't seem to be a way to show people someone is scum.

[Wraith]

@NS:

@SB: Here's the thing: If a player truly is scummy, even when you point out what they're doing that's perceived as scummy, and they stop that, there will be more (usually).

All we have to do is find the next scummy thing they do.

For wanting to keep his information to himself,

unvote

Vote: silverbullet999

unvote

Vote: Wraith.

I just don't think his tunneling of mallow is very town.

Post evidence or keep evidence? Make up your mind.

And from now on I'll just keep what I think to myself. As AGar and Beefster have clearly demonstrated, lurking, watching, and waiting are the best strategies.

[Wraith]

@AGar: I have no other options. Whatever I say will just be discredited by simply being associated with me. Whatever. You wanna buy some ambiguous case on shaky "evidence," be my guest.

[Wraith]

Now would be a useful time to claim... Considering someone could hammer at any point.

Why should I claim? Like I said, everything I say is tainted by association, and you've already said yourself that you wouldn't believe me if I claimed VT.

But I've got nothing else to lose. Claiming VT.

[Wraith]

Finally, we're all back in business. I'm extremely disappointed with myself, though. All of that mind-numbing effort put into that analysis...to be wrong. It's just a slap in the face.

Hopefully we can get it right this time. At the moment my top suspects are DP and quadz.

[Wraith]

You mean July 7th?

Silly admin making typoes. Even I can't bend time.

[Wraith]

*looks out window*

Where's Beefster and NS?

[Wraith]

If AGar and DP are a scumteam then they're pulling a very wierd tactic. Do scumbuddies bus each other this early in a BW? Anyways, the only thing we know for sure about this game is that there are 2 mafia players still in the game. Nobody's claimed Doc, so for all we know DP is scum claiming cop because we're in a non-PR setup, and can get away with it without a CC.

[Wraith]

Well, I'm pretty confident as to who I'm gonna vote for today (at least at this time), but I'm gonna wait for NS and Beefster to contribute their views first.

[Wraith]

Okay, DP's latest posts are just screaming "Scum!" at me, and he's pushing some pretty convoluted logic/theorems/whatever to keep us from pinpointing his actual alignment. I think he's lying through his teeth.

Vote: DavidParker

[Wraith]

@ Wraith: Why do you just seem to be the scummiest of all on the DP bandwagon? Okay, jokes aside (well it's not a joke, that's honestly how I sorta perceive it). 1) Would you hammer if right now if you could AND 2) If i'm lynched and show up as town, who would be your main suspects of the remaining 6? What likely scum pairings do you see?

1. I wouldn't hammer now because Thor hasn't said anything, and NS wants to post something big.
2. I'm not entirely sure at the moment, but quadz and maybe NS are up there.

[Wraith]

Okay, Thor seems to have a problem with me lurking. Let me explain: when I opened my mouth on Day 1 to put in a very detailed analysis of scummy play, I almost got myself killed. Let's also add in the fact that I was wrong, and I really don't want to "lead" another mislynch. I think I explained my disbelief of a DP/AGar scumpair because it was too big of a gambit for AGar to bus DP so early. However, with his unvote I'm kind of picking that back up...kind of. My vote for DP stems from the fact that he is just playing an utterly insane game. He's lied constantly (I don't even know if we can trust him on being a cop at all at this point), he's recently played a poor defense (asking someone for help? You attacked quadz and mallow for doing that before), and he's constantly switched positions on just about everyone in this game. It's mostly the persistent lies that have pushed me against him. He's either scum or the worst cop ever, and I'm leaning toward the former. Sure, a lie every now and then for the town can do some good, but no townie should have to lie as much as you are.

[Wraith]

@Thor: What I meant when I said "I'm kinda picking up the AGar/DP scumteam again" is "sure they're a possibility, but I doubt they would run a scum-voting-scum gambit so early on an obvious target for a BW. But wait, AGar's unvoted from DP to prevent a hammer. Could he be preventing a mistake?" While it is a remote possibility, I'm more inclined to keep the belief that AGar is town, because his vote and case against DP is a lot more convincing than DP's case against whoever he cares to accuse at the moment.

What I meant when I said "don't trust DP's cop claim" was "He's lied and played WIFOM so much at this point don't trust a word he says anymore." At least that's what I'm going to do. Like I said, one little white lie for the town can be a good thing (ie in a dethy game I hosted a cop player lied about a result to trick the scum into letting his guard down) but DP's lied so much that I can't trust anything he says:

1. He defends mallowgeno ferociously, then goes back on everything he's said in mallow's defense when he hammers
2. Claims cop despite producing no valid results
3. Claims he has a result from Night 1 but refuses to reveal it
4. Goes back on his claim of having a result and claims being roleblocked (also after he claimed that he believed there was no RB in this game)
5. He's been playing WIFOM as has been pointed out and has tried to pull a "What am I doing wrong person who accused me?" defense

In addition, his vote earlier for silverbullet has no basis other than strange logic, and therefore I am led to believe it was a malicious OMGUS. Some of the questions he's posed (silver asked one earlier) are trick questions: "Would you hammer now?" is the main example. If you say "Yes" you're a scum player trying to get a mislynch. If you say "No" you're a scum player trying to sit on the fence. Also, regarding his post where he claimed roleblock, he says that he was trying to convince the mafia that he was VT with his earlier lies. This makes no sense. If a claimed cop has a result and doesn't reveal it, and there is no cc, he's an easy kill and the info dies with him. What I think he is is a scum player trying to do is save himself by seeding doubt in our minds, claiming cop and then claiming "I was trying to blend as VT to trick the mafia." A claimed cop at this point would try to get out as much information as he can to help the town since he will soon be dead to a night kill.

It seems DP posted a large case against me while I was writing this. I'll post a response soon.

[Wraith]

First, I will address my playstyle. I have much more experience hosting than actually playing and that greatly affects how I play. As a host, you know exactly who is who and what is going on. I am used to merely watching action play out and posting only in terms of exposition, but I do enjoy playing mentally-heavy games so I'm trying to get into this as much as possible. I have "pushed a lot of content" as you say it despite multiple claims that I have not.

I did think I was genuinely terrible at finding scum. I once threw a game to the scum in LYLO because I wasn't looking for scumtells on nowhere near the level of detail I have this game. I've found that, perhaps, I have the potential of being a good scumhunter. Also, he brings up that I read a few games here. I read a few of the SHORTER games and skimmed through larger ones to see major turning points. I didn't comb through each of them like I have combed through this game.

On point 3, this was a genuine mistake on my part. I badly misread the F11 setups (or C9, I don't know) and thought that every game there was a cop there was a doctor. I said that back when I was starting to believe your cop claim, but right now I believe that this is a non-PR game.

On point 4, I've already explained why I said I would hammer (because you were flaming). You're selectively pointing out things that make me look scummy even though these things have already been sufficiently explained.

On point 5, I have already explained that I was exceedingly confused by people referring to you as a cop claim despite you only hypothetically asking what to do if you were cop. Again, you are selectively quoting me.

On point 6, you state my reasons for my belief of opposite alignments - because of how ferociously mallow attacked you for the first few pages. This belief gradually declined as you began to defend mallow but it has now shot to certainty in my view, as mallow turned out to be town and I am firm in my belief that you are scum.

On point 7, it can easily be of one's opinion to believe that someone is manipulating us with statistics. It has been done before many times in real life.

On point 8, I think I stated in very clear, detailed terms why I maintained my suspicion and vote on mallowgeno. It was to my belief that he was scum based on extremely scummy play, not because of the bandwagon.

On point 9, that was honestly a newbie thing and now I know not to just say "Yo, I'm here, but I've got nothing to say." As everyone knows, and I've stated before, I put down my case against mallow later on in clear, detailed form, and doing so made me look extremely suspicious anyways, for some reason. You are manipulating my posting history to make me look like scum no matter what I do. According to you, "sitting on the fence" and lurking to see how things play out make me scum, but making a detailed case against someone and then maintaining a firm belief in that (sound, if ultimately incorrect) case also makes me scum?

As for my defense, let's address your "key" point. I did not "explain" as you say that your reason for voting for me was because of retaliation, I merely believed that was your reason and stated that that was my belief. I never knew for sure what your reason was, but now it is clear to me that you are picking up one of the scummier-looking players (he did it with quadz before me, who was the most suspicious mid-Day One) and attempting to get them lynched by slectively quoting and manipulating the facts. In regards to point 3 on my defense, this is just incredibly hypocritical. He is doing the EXACT same thing against me (scumhunting someone who is suspicious), but is using my own scumhunting defense as "evidence" to my scumminess.

In conclusion, I'll say this - I don't know what everyone else might think, but I've played an honest game up to this point. I've stated my cases and opinions honestly and directly despite the fact that it might have made me look scummy. DP has played an extremely dishonest game, bouncing around with his cop-claiming, suspicions, OMGUSing, and the recent incredible web of lies surrounding his so-called "investigation results" and "roleblocking." His case against me relies on large amounts of selective quoting, as has been pointed out, and hypocrisy, especially in regards to his claims that I am scummy based on no matter I do, whether it's when I'm "fence-sitting" or pushing a case or "bandwagoning." He's clearly played the most dishonest game and has used the shakiest and/or hypocritical logic in all his cases against his endless suspects.

[Wraith]

Geez, I take so long with my analyses. People keep posting in between!

@Thor:

On 2: I am referring to Day 2. He maintained a cop claim despite lying about having a result and then claiming roleblock. He has no results and has bounced around different excuses as to why he doesn't have them yet maintains a cop claim. Thus, my conclusion that the cop claim is false, that there are no PRs (no doc claim, no cop cc), and that DP is scum.

On 5. I think that was quadz. If I was playing WIFOM I was unaware of it. The closest I can think of me playing WIFOM was my response to silver about being "offended" by DP's accusation, when I said "Wouldn't you be offended if someone accused you?"

After David, probably quadz. His defense on Day One was pretty iffy.

[Wraith]

David, you seem to be unable to comprehend of idea of "defense." You are attacking me, therefore I am attacking you back. As you have constantly, you are claiming my scumhunting make me scum, along with every other action I take. As for your questions, you continue to fail to respond to any of my counterpoints I make and therefore I will not answer your questions.

However, I will answer one, on why I think it's a no-PR game. You seem to be unable to read my posts in full as well, and I have twice explained that this is a no-PR game because I don't believe your cop-claim, no one has cc'ed, and no one has Doc-claimed.

[Wraith]

I am not sure I fully understand AGar's mass-claim plan? What?

[Wraith]

I'm seeing an awful lot of fence-sitting from everyone here, most especially AGar, Thor, NS, and silverbullet (until the latter two voted). I'm sure someone (probably DP) will bring up the fact that I sat on the fence during Day One (while I believe this is untrue), but I know who I think is scum and I've made my case and decision. Cases have been made, and most all I've seen the last page are people claiming their intentions to vote for someone.

[Wraith]

Left out another fence-sitter - quadz, although he has voted as well.

Also, on the AGar/DP scumteam theory: I can see it as a strong possibility (DP clearing AGar, AGar unvoting at L-1, AGar fence-sitting despite claiming intention to lynch DP), but I'm doubting that it's the reality.

[Wraith]

My scumdar isn't flashing too hard, but my top three suspects in no particular order are quadz, NS, and AGar, mostly for just scummy play/posts over the last few days. Although, I'm sure I myself am pretty high on everyone's lists as well for the same reasons.

[Wraith]

Also, for NS's reference: I'll refer to you (NobodySpecial) by saying NS. Whenever I say "nobody," capitalized or uncapitalized, I mean "no person"

[Wraith]

I was expecting DP to flip either cop or scum. I never expected him to be VT lying about being a cop. WTF?

[Wraith]

Mine arein no order:

quadz (iffy Day 1)
NS (A few uncomfortably scummy posts)

[Wraith]

Upon re-reading the topic my suspicions on NS were based on what I perceived as buddying with mallow or DP. Since both of them flipped town, I think those suspicions are rendered moot. Other than that, I think the only gripe I have with NS is his play on Day 1, where he voted silverbullet for voting without analysis yet voted for me later on for voting with analysis.

I also had suspicions on AGar (outlined by myself and NS similarly during Day 2) based on a DP/AGar scumpair theory, but once again suspicions are moot since DP flipped town.

Basically, since my two top suspects (mallow and DP) both flipped town, the only person I really have any material on beyond association with scummy players is quadz.

[Wraith]

Gonna be blunt and say you're overanalyzing. My epic quest to uncover whether or not DP actually claimed was genuine confusion, not a devious plot to find the PRs. You're also seeing lies where there are none, most notably in regards to my acklowedgements of the cop claim, which were mostly well after DP claiming or not claiming was confirmed to me. To explain my actions regarding the cop claim in TLDR format:

1. DP sets up a series of hypothetical questions; People begin referring to DP as having claimed cop; I'm all like "were those claims hypothetical or real?" because whether or not he claimed would affect my voting
2. As mallow emerged as a scummier player I began to believe DP's cop claim based on their early Day 1 feud.
3. When mallow flipped town DP replaced him as my top suspect on Day 2. After all the drama around investigations and roleblocking I totally disregarded his cop claim as a lie. On your last point that was me stated HIS actions, not my own beliefs.

Also, I'm unfamiliar with the exact definition of "tunnelling." There's no article in the wiki.

[Wraith]

My tunneling mostly stems from the group dynamics of my top suspects throughout the game (mallow, DP, quadz). Suspecting one (mostly) cleared the others.

[Wraith]

TBH I didn't expect an in-depth analysis from quadz like that (especially with stuff like percentages).

I have responses to these latest posts but I've been very busy over the last couple days and have been waiting for some other stuff to process.

[Wraith]

I seem to remember it being answered; he said that it was, in fact, because of the statistics AGar posted.

This is correct on both accounts.

[Wraith]

Decided I'm going to make a little analysis on quadz while I wait for something to process. This will not be my last post on the subject of my innocence. Most of my issue with quadz is his scummy play on Day 1.

Also, FoS: DavidParker. You seem awful confident...

VERY early FoS. While not as blatant a scumtell as mallow's early BW, it's still an easy scumtell. He also did a crapload of fence-sitting, demonstrated by these posts:

Ah, alright. No, I'm not ready to put a third vote on somebody this early in the day; for now, I'll let mallow and Uite's votes speak for me.

It's just very soon in the day, is all. I feel like we're moving very, very quickly, especially for Day 1. But I've never played a forum-based game before, so I could be totally off base with that assumption.

DP, there's plenty of other people who have "justified" this. That statement holds essentially no bearing; I am merely holding back from hammering this early in the game, before all of our players have even shown up.

Tries to justify his fence-sitting in two ways - newbieness and lack of evidence. I don't buy the former but I can understand the second, considering that was my own reason for "fence-sitting" on Day 1 and am being accused for the same thing even more maliciously.

He starts playing the "give me advice about how not to look scum" card when he was being accused, while also again denying his fence-sitting:

The same reason Uite unvoted; I just think it's unwise to end the day so early.

@those who see me as scummy:
Can I get an explanation for it? I'm honestly confused as to why that vibe is coming off.

Also see some hypocrisy:

That's an immensely difficult question. After reading through the entire game once more, though, I find mallow to be rather eager to lynch, or at least to bandwagon. I personally find bandwagons to be scummy; they give in to the mob mentality, and remove intelligent thought.

Quadz has hopped on every bandwagon yet. I at least scumhunted so much that I practically got them rolling. During Day 1 especially he did a lot of flip-flopping, which I think was an attempt to buddy up with me.

That's all I'm putting up for now. I've got a headache.

[Wraith]

Nah I'm finished, go ahead.

[Wraith]

Well, you all have solid cases on me. But that's to be expected, because after DP I've played the scummiest game. I don't know about you all, but I'm gonna go with my gut and lynch the most blatant scum.

Vote: quadz08

[Wraith]

/bah

I'm astounded you all let me last that long, and almost equally astounded you let me manipulate you into lynching mallow. This will be interesting to watch. Go Scum!

[Wraith]

Night 1

Okay, I've got a bone to pick with your actions on Day 1:

1. Next time you get a chance to hammer someone, DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you'd hammer'd DP when you had the chance not only would the town be short their cop but we would not be the top suspects

2. Stop trying too hard to sit on the fence. Even I could see it. I had to take a shitload of heat to save your ass and it almost got me killed.

Night Actions:

I'll roleblock DP (he'll be invincible without a dead doctor). As for the NK, I'd say either Uite, silverbullet, or Beefster. If we touch anyone who accused me I think that'll be a guaranteed death for me tomorrow. Look through the posts and see if you can spot the doctor. At this point I'm leaning toward Uite being the doctor.

Day Strategizing:

One of us is dead tomorrow unless some miracle is pulled off, and it's probably me, very fast. You need to put some extra distance between me and yourself. If it looks like I'm going down, I'll try to make it blatant that I'm buddying up to you in the bad guy way. If it's abundantly clear that I'm not getting out of that lynch (and vice versa), such as 4 votes on me and no one else close, you or me need to hammer. Seriously though, if there is a L-1 on someone and it won't look totally evil to hammer (such as if no one's called a halt to voting) then HAMMER.

That's fair, my friend. I wasn't playing well at the beginning, you're right. I think if I'd hammered DP, I would've been dead reeeeeal quick tomorrow. I just think quicklynching someone is a dangerous move. And I'm not gonna sit on the fence near as much anymore; I realize that it was dumb of me.

However, I have issue with some of what you did today, too. You're being like I was at the beginning of the day: very defensive. I learned this lesson fast, we can't react to everything, and, in fact, reacting to everything is not smart and looks suspicious. Tomorrow, try to be less defensive. I think it'll help.

The ideal situation tomorrow is that someone else gets lynched, but you're right, it's unlikely. If we CAN, it would be best if I got lynched, over you, since you're the roleblocker. If the heat comes down on you again, scumhunt like mad, and make sure that I'm one of the people you examine. I'd much rather me be dead and have a living roleblocker who played a part in my death, than have a dead roleblocker.

Do we agree that on L-1 situations on one of us, the other one hammers? I think there should be a little bit of flexibility on that (if it's the very beginning, I don't want one of us to be accused of a quicklynch, for example).

As to Night actions, I pretty much agree with you. We're roleblocking DP, and killing somebody who fulfills a majority of these requirements (in order of importance):
a) hardcore townie, it'll be next to impossible to get them lynched
b) didn't suspect you
c) suspected someone else who's alive pretty heavily
d) didn't suspect me
e) may be the doctor

If we do manage to nightkill the doctor, we just saved ourselves a shitload of trouble. And it's a 20% shot; it's doable, I think. We should look through the thread a couple of times, and see who we think matches up. Lemme know if you disagree with anything I said haha.

Day Actions:

Bussing should only be applicable if it's abundantly clear that the lynchee has no hope. For example, bussing would have been the wrong thing to do at the finale of Day 1 there, because there was still a good possibility for the votes to shift to mallow. If the votes are more like 4 on Wraith, 1 on Quadz, 1 on DP, then wait a few posts (not too much) to see if there's the slightest chance of a momentum shift, and if there isn't then bus.

There are two possibilities for tomorrow. Either they immediately pile on to me, or I give a successfully persuasive argument that I was just reckless/mallow just played a bad game (which he did). I'm going to lurk for the first few pages/posts of Day 2 so I can try to get the heat off me. Second possibility is a flaming suspicion of DP, which is certainly possible given Uite's suspicion of DP and DP being roleblocked. Look at sveral posts (especially Uite's) and bring up his suspicion of Uite. Subtly, don't draw heat onto yourself (tunnelling, as they call it). Also cite his final hammer of mallow. Whatever you do, don't defend me because that's an immediate red flag.

I did play a really bad defense game after DP's first accusation. This is the first game I've played scum against a competent (if insane) town, so I don't really know how to defend myself. I say insane because my case against mallow was eight times better than DP's but they still bought DP's.

Night:

a. Uite is pretty firmly seen as town by everyone
b. He didn't suspect me, he was with me on mallow
c. He was pretty suspicious of DP and stated that
d. He didn't suspect you at all as far as I saw
e. Uite is currently the one I most think is the doctor. I doubt we'll get him tonight, though

Day Actions:

The stuff you mentioned about bussing makes sense, and I agree.

Also, Uite should be the kill tonight, I think. Do we choose someone to actually make the kill? If so, I think it should be me; it's better for us if I'm discovered as mafia (in the unlikely case DP isn't the cop).

I definitely agree with you staying in the background for a while. Make sure you're still posting, so nobody can get on you for lurking, but make it minimal. I'll try to bring up the fact that both mallow and Uite seemed to be pretty well against DP, and I'll do my best to be careful about it.

Also, just as I won't defend you, you shouldn't defend me. We're playing in a delicate balance, as I'm sure you know.

At the end of the day, I think DP was being given an undue amount of respect from the town. When he can't produce anything tomorrow, that should begin to dissipate, I hope. That should make a case against him easier.

One thing we need to talk about and prepare for is this: what if DP lies about finding someone? I think it's possible. He could pick someone like silver, who's probably town but could go either way, and call him town. (If he calls him mafia, well, that's good for us. We'll just run with that.) If he does make something up and call town on someone, what's our strategy?

TBH I don't think he'll risk it. But if he does, there's nothing we can do blatantly. We'll have to make him slip up, make him scumhunt that person or something.

When you're ready, send the mod our actions:

Wraith roleblocks DavidParker, Quadz kills Uite

Going to put up Night 2 PMs next post, then my thoughts.

[Wraith]

That worked out rather nicely, didn't it?

I think we should kill Thor, but I'm definitely open to discussion/other suggestions.

Also, the mod called DP a townie. Does that mean he's vanilla? Or just town-aligned?

DP was a VT. He lied about his cop claim anyway! XD SO GOLDEN! However TBH I really did think he was the cop. Okay, with that mindblowing revelation I now think the setup is 1 Goon, 1 RB, 7 VT, since the real cop would have counterclaimed by now. AGar did us a big favor by making himself look a little suspicious during that day, same with NS. Therefore, I heartily agree that Thor should die. He's too analytical and sensible for this town

Actions: Kill Thor, Roleblock AGar (he's my second choice if there is a doc at all which I doubt)

Stratting for Day 3: I think I'm everyone's top suspect for the next day. Unless someone else slips up really badly or you take a fall I think I'm tomorrow's dead man. We'll just have to see. As you can see I was putting a little bit of criticism on you throughout Day 2 in an attempt to distance ourselves from each other. If they go after me I'm going to scumhunt on you and probably NS (depending on whether he or AGar look more suspicious). Defend yourself against me by sending counteraccusations but don't rail against me like DP did against me or mallow did against DP. Pick either NS or AGar to also make a top suspect and attack them as well.

If I die, I'll put this suggestion out there: kill silverbullet on Night 3, unless someone else makes a better target.

That is just mindblowingly dumb. Wow.

We're doing a good job at keeping ourselves separated, methinks, which is good. Hopefully, we can turn the tides tomorrow, against either NS or AGar, like you said. If we can, then we win, as you know.

If they get one of us, though, then Day 4 is 2 townies, 1 mafia. It's gonna be he-said, she-said craziness, and the best debater will win. We'll see what happens.

So we're definitely killing Thor tonight, then.

Here are my thoughts about the roleblock:
It's possible there is still both a cop and a doctor out there. The cop would have just been convinced that DP was scum, and would have had no need to counter-claim so early, since he was clearly about to be lynched anyway. I think we should go through and look for possible other cops. I think AGar is plain VT because of his plan to massclaim (he would gain nothing if he already had knowledge of a role) , but any of the other 3 could be anything. To be clear, I don't really think there are a cop or a doctor, but it's enough of a possibility to check out.

I'm just preparing for the worst, but turning the tides against those two is unlikely, as I don't think they are flashing on anyone else's scumdar much.

Point on AGar. After him, my next suspect would be Thor, then NS.

Kill Thor, Roleblock NS

Question. Should we have you do the killing AND the roleblock? Or split it up, like last time? You seem to be under more suspicion than me, so I'm thinking that it would make more sense for me to not put myself in harm's way.

It doesn't really matter, since there are no roles that kill/track/whatever a killer in this game. Do what you want.

[Wraith]

Finally, food for thought time. I'm not technically a rookie, since I've played and hosted enough to know the rules and researched enough to know the lingo, but my previous games were certainly in a much lower class than anything here. This is the first game I've played where I played against a competent town - the others I was scum in were walkovers. Therefore, I had no idea how to properly defend myself against experienced players like y'all. What this taught me was how to defend myself as scum, which will really, really help later on.

Comments on Kills: We killed Uite because he was blatant town, and my closest guess to doctor, as you all have speculated. I'm very paranoid, especially in games that revolve around paranoia, so I embraced DP's cop claim and basically hunted for the doctor like crazy until DP was lynched, at which point I was certain there were no other PRs. We killed Thor in a surprisingly unanimous decision because the instant he entered the game he saw right through our plays, and was therefore extremely dangerous. If he hadn't shown up, I'm betting AGar would have bought the farm Night 2.

Comments on Players: I'm very satisfied with how this turned out - quadz and I played well IMO, but not quite well enough to win. I had no problems with the players beyond DP's brief flame-phase and mallow's death spiral:

Me:

I was on the right track until I made the HUGE mistake of overreacting to DP's offhand accusation on Day 1. I made a semi-desperate (I'd planned to do it eventually) gamble by making my mega-post against mallow, which was designed to haul quadz's ass out of the fire and get a mislynch at the same time. Unfortunately that backfired almost catastrophically, and instead of throwing suspicion on other townies (DP) it threw suspicion on me. I'm still astounded that I lasted to Day 3, and I attribute it to DP's liarrific play.

quadz:

He was a good partner, but he had one huge problem - he couldn't seem to commit to a gamble. If he had hammer'd DP that first Day on page 3(?), I believe we might have one, as either of us (especially me) would not have had the heat on our asses early on (I think mallow would have been an easy Day 2 lynch, then possibly quadz himself on Day 3 provided someone hadn't gotten heat on them on Day 2, then I could have manipulated the LyLo on Day 4). AGar has also pointed out that his non-commital toward making a case against me let him (AGar) guess that quadz was scum, correctly. I think that contributed to his endgame downfall, as well as the poor Day 1 defense. Sorry to say it dude, but the root of our loss here ultimately goes back to the missed opportunity on Day 1.

AGar/Thor:

I put these two in the same blurb because I have the same comments on both - they were probably the most dangerous townies in the game. As I've said, Thor scared the shit outta me Day 2 because he immediately saw through our plays to see the scum we were. AGar wasn't as "volatile" as Thor (causing Thor's Night 2 death), but he was still extremely dangerous and was the driving force against me most of the game, which is probably what killed you Night 3.

DavidParker:

Rocky start, I know. Personally I didn't judge you based on "arrogance," but then again I was scum and knew you were pro-town. That was the most batshit insane play I've ever seen, with the cop claim as a VT. I don't really know what you'd have gained by baiting the N1 kill, other than just another townie dying. I suppose you were trying to protect the real cop, but when no CC appeared I was pretty sure you were the cop and roleblocked you. Mind was blown when you were revealed as VT. Suggestion: Don't lie next time. The cop claim would have been more believable if you had just come out and said "I was roleblocked" immediately instead of trying to scare the scum with a hidden result. Yeah, I know you didn't know you were actually roleblocked, but if you don't have a result and you have claimed cop you MUST have an excuse for not having that result, because eventually you will have to reveal it. A claimed cop doesn't hide results, because he can die during the night. Cut the flaming, cut the lying, and I think your bold style of play can pay big dividends some other game.

Uite:

Not much to say here, considering I got you killed N1 . You play a good town, keep that style if you plan on baiting night kills. I'd like to play against you when you're scum.

mallowgeno:

Not much to say here either, considering I got you lynched D1 (Damn I'm good ). I can attribute that lynch to inexperience with MS. Don't make it so blatant that you're trying an early wagon - I wasn't lying when I said constantly that that is a blatant scumtell.

NobodySpecial:

Good IC, although I didn't really need it much, since I know the game and I know forums. On your play, I honestly don't have much to say other than "difficult." You were a dangerous scumhunter, but you could also be convinced onto a wagon, although it was freaking hard.

silverbullet:

You were one of my top picks for kills throughout the game, as you established yourself as a dangerous scumhunter early on. However, Uite just gave me the "totally the doctor" vibe and stole the NK from you N1. After Day 1 you kind of faded into the background, and Thor became a much more dangerous target for N2. If you're town and you've established that you're pro-town, as you did, go all-out in your scumhunting next time. Don't be a wallflower!

Anyways, that's all I got. GG

[Wraith]

Of the main people who were blatantly pro-town (you, silver, AGar) you were the least vocal and most cautious. At the time I was convinced there was a Doc, and you were the best candidate.

[Wraith]

I'm not complaining much dude, we did a great job of making it to a second LyLo after a rocky start. I'm just saying that if that hammer had gone down, neither of us would have had overreactions on Day 1. The slightest difference in a moment can change the face of future events.

[Wraith]

Yeah he brought that up. However, the suspicion would have first fallen on mallowgeno, the person who started the early wagon and actively asked everyone to join, before it fell on the person who hammer'd. Hammering isn't necessarily a scumtell, even early hammering. Remember, you hammer'd mallow somewhat abruptly, but you weren't scum.

[Wraith]

Yes, but an early lynch on you D1 would have eliminated all of the discussion that took place later on. Quadz and I wouldn't have had all the slip-ups we did that day, and the town would have had no material on us D2, and possibly D3 as well.

[Wraith]

I'm inclined to agree with DP here. Quicklynching is basically yelling "hey, I'm scum!"

I suppose it depends on the players. There was another newbie game I wanted to replace into (DP actually beat me to the slot) where there was a quicklynch. I think the hammerer was lynched Day 3 and revealed to be scum, but there was still a second mislynch (hammer'd by the same guy) before they caught him.