Newbie 686 - Game Over!

[Grum]

Logged in and ready to play! /confirm roger?

[Grum]

Okay so I'm not one to random vote but I've found that my stance on voting in general gets me in trouble... So I'll clear it up now I don't vote unless I find some one to be very very likely. I will be both paranoid and protective of my personal votes because while I thought I was being to strict in my last game I was horribly wrong... So now I will have you know that every one is greatly suspicious to me unless given any reason not to be, and it has to be a very good reason. I also tend to make little sense from time to time so please ask for clearance if needed. I can be a fun guy, I like to think(I know every A hole says that) I want to keep my cool through out the game so please don't insult me with my spelling errors and/ or mistakes on vote counts or quotes. I hope this will get some real conversation going right off the bat. Ohh and I tend to be on late night -5 GMT... as of right now I have a growing suspicion of Light source if he doesn't post after picking up the PM. It's cool so far but I disdain lurkers. Lets get some postage going!

[Grum]

so coming out and telling you what to expect is scummy? and being anti lurker means I'm scummy? okay...
Look I don't mind your suspicious nature on me for being strait forward but I will not be pressured into voting someone purley because other people find them scummy, my FOS should do enough without running the risk of mislynch which is what the results were in my last game. my meta is useless because I'm aware of it so I have no defense as town to begin with and setting up for a quick lynch is far worse than holding off on voting. I never said that I was suspicious for him not picking up his PM, theres no proof that the person was even aware of the game. I said if he picks up the PM and doesn't post, then he'll go in my books as scummy. Why because clearly theres plenty to talk about right off. You can't say I didn't help start off D1, and If I end up lynched then I have my logic to help feed the town into D2... What I did here in my first active post was set up a conversation first of all and second of all got reactions that set up scum tells. I would bring you up in my suspicious list if it wasn't for the fact that you don't understand my philosophy in votes and their power.
I beleive that a vote is the most powerful tool in the game for me as town more than anything but while less so as scum it is still effective. I keep my vote from going all over the place to keep from a mislynch and also to show my confidence in my vote. I hold it very sacred and as town it is my only weapon and it's ammo is knowledge. The longer I hold off a lynch the better off town is for knowledge. I find your willingness to vote so willy nilly more scary than anything else. I know that you could easily be town using your vote very dangerously. I would hope you discontinue your dangerous play with fatality... I cannot control you and you may simply have your own game style... I however would ike to ask that if you must lynch me for what ever reasons you at lest hold off on doing so until more information is gathered and everyone has spoken.
-Thank you very much, end rant.

[Grum]

all the town... I think I'm in class really and got side tracked when posting...

[Grum]

Where did I say I wouldn't vote ever!? It's not a preplaced excuse I clearly wouldn't go out saying things like this to bring attention to myself as a scum! and the "excuse" is just me telling you I type bad grammar.

I only use my vote when I'm at lest 70%sure some one is scum. I stated that my meta is useless because it is as a defense.

I'm sorry I don't hit enter every post this is an example of my anger toward people dissing my typing.

I really can't give a defense except that my post was to tell out what to expect and if anything was out of the ordinary it should be improvement!

I can't tell you how very scummy Tamuz is to me from my point of view because it's just stupid to vote some one or even FOS because they voted you.

I believe the phrase WIFOM is involved here when I suspect him and he blames me...

Look I know I'm not making this easy, but bear with me I meant my posts are hard to read, I will clear up anything the best I can. seriously is being bad at grammar such a bad thing you start to look scummy or is it because I warned you your all freaking out. I know I'm not L1 now but I cannot see this going well after I might be the best lynch in even town eyes, after all it takes two or more town to lynch some one.

My main issue is Tamuz, really if I turn up town at this point then he'll look scummy but ohh Grum was scummy looking. It's a good excuse for mafia to get away with. It's also easy to back it up with we all thought he was scum, but why would mafia quick lynch like that, knowing they would look bad. WIFOM.

I can't say much for me either though, I have an excuse, which I admit only can help scum. I'm not getting any help out of it for sure though I can't say I didn't know I'd get this kind of reaction. and in fact my pointing this out makes me look worse, but now read into the posts from him. He not only buddies up with two other people but in some of the posts try's to make me feel like he really doesn't know.

Obviously I don't know he is scum. I'm saying it to show how strong of a vibe I'm picking up from him. I don't know the scum from the town (excluding myself) anymore than any other townie. I will never know for sure until the mod reveals it BUT my lexicon will still talk in the sense of SCUM and TOWN not "probable scum" and "probable town". Wishy-washy words are for scum. I can be wrong, of course, but my words will be as firm as my thoughts at the time. Top 2 in the list are scum. At the 1-post point, with a post that sets off alarm bells Grom was scum (and still is to my mind).

now I am going to stand up to this kind of this he's moving up in scumdar for me I'm not ready to vote him becasue I don't feel it's an obvious scum tell.
I will say I feel he's closer to scum than any one else but one other person...
alex... yeah again I'm pointing right back at em but again it's "I'm voting you because I can't be sure."

I'm sick of that.

I do not question your philosophy of voting, if you random voted without saying anything else, I wouldn't vote you: i only think that the way you started the game made you look scummy, because you tried to excuse yourself of all future things that may happen in the game when it goes on.

?
really right after you vote me?! then other people agree in general yep that's an excuse that's no explanation!
notice while off the same hunch no one else votes... why is that? scum not willing to get involved but add oil to the fire instead? or is it unsure town? more WIFOM? look it's the way the game works.

I accept that but please consider and explain build a case then vote. don't go voting like these two I can't see how killing every person that slips up gives scum tells if every one practiced it.

end rant and good night...

[Grum]

EBWOP: I did say wouldn't random vote though... so for the record that is the case being built on me...

[Grum]

I would almost never vote for nolynch and in no case ever would I give the mafia a free kill over the night on day 1!

also when I said that I would vote in response to someone saying I wouldn't(in which I was told no one did)

Aldu-

Well, for starters, I think you should use your vote. It is, as you say, your most powerful weapon. Use it! As for holding off a lynch so that the town will have more knowledge, I have to agree. But past a certain point all it's doing is delaying and no knowledge is gained.

that's who I was responding to...

I can see we have a two party thing going on here right now and I'm thinking it isn't very healthy but it may be useful...
one party thinks I'm scummy but less so than tamuz
another is very suspicious of me for the excuse and less concerned with tamuz

I clearly favor the people more suspicious of tamuz but I do understand where the other grouip is coming from, that's what my attempt to clear things up was.

now in my first post I was trying to get at the fact that if I warent a vote I am very serious about it. 70% is no sneezing matter(nor is it a solid one just a rough estimate) In specific cases I may even hold onto it to look deeper into someone I find odd without giving them a notice to start checking what they say closer. I do want to pressure people but the last time I did it sooner than I wanted we lynched before the pressure was even worth it. the hammer was scum but the case was interesting counter claiming a doc(the town did lie though about being a doc, which= bad move)

for the most part this has been a fair amount of fluff info, so I am going to point out my suspicions.

Tamuz 40%
xtoxm30%
alex20%
every one else 10%
me 0%
(this is from my veiw take the 0% as you will)

note I will not use 100% on anything(but me I know who I am)unless uncounter claimed cop provided and no one starts at zero becasue no one is proven by uncounter claimed cop, and no one is a mason in this type of setup.

I don't feel any reason to go back to random voting xtoxm so please state your reasons it is not very wise to go about things like that.

I will nolonger place %'s on my suspicions but rather place it in order, because I don't want scum to know how close they are to being voted, until I vote that is...

I know that voting and lynching a scum is not very easy on D1. I know in cases it can hurt town(which is why some suggest that nolynch is better) but how does losing two town benifit us? it doesn't, D1 should not only be used to find scum but also their partners. single them out and then make due with what results you get(mislynch means that your info was flawed but more info may be available to you)

So there you have it from me again, take it apart read it again and again if you must. I tried to make this post very, very clear.

-Grum

[Grum]

Now that I think about it, and I must say that is a terrible excuse just reading the posts you can tell were out of the random votes, I am more suspicious of you... besides if it means nothing you would unvote.

I'm changing my suspicions

xtoxm
tumaz
alex
everyone else
me

at lest tumaz had a reason.

[Grum]

granted I like the inserting of reason but that's... OMGUS at it's finest... I'm sorry to say but your either overreacting or you have something to hide and your attempt to stay on the low side of the scummy list is failing you so you freak out.

I'm not compfortable with it but I think your gunslinging adatude is hurting you more, Xtoxm.

[Grum]

really I wasn't focusing on that at all. I was trying to get out that I want my vote to be considered high priority. Seriously, I had no intention or clue that it was even an excuse to begin with.
I can't really rap this around my head how is a single post like that make me worse than the guy that votes on his first post, and votes in the second post of the game. or the guy that jumps the bandwagon on his first on the third post of the day, how about the guy that gives either no reason or terrible ones to vote with out saying anything more?

I'm not saying we need to go vote happy on them but really why me? okay I have a terrible excuse, then just don't take in every thing for face value. why vote me to death, granted now I'm at L2 rather than L1 like before what if a scum came in and gave the excuse that I was most likely scum? mislynch, right of the bat with out any more real info either.

@ destrox: yeah I'm changing up I'll explain every thing now before I end up explaining the whole game. I don't want any of my posts to be unclear is there a problem with clarity?

[Grum]

The guy that doesn't want to vote just because I can? could you please clear this up how is a small singular post stating a strong stance against random voting and an apology for future mistakes(as it turns out that very sentence was) make me sure fire scum?
Why is no one addressing this more seriously I got voted back to L1 with an OMGUS.(I think it was L1 at that time)

I really am curious as to why people are assuming who scum is this early, yes I kicked it off early, but that doesn't mean we know who is and who isn't I trust most of you to not vote anyone dead so soon, but really we have two maybe three cannonballs firing off at a dangerous rate and I'm dangerous town?

I just want to know why I'm dangerous...

I know I'm never going to hear the end of this excuse crud but come on, dangerous?

sorry it just seems like ill placed phrases, I can't say I know who else will go and vote like cannons.

I stated my concerns were with xtoxm and look at the reaction I receive. I can strongly say he is moving up at more speed then ever before. I just want to know I'm not the only one who thinks that kind of voting is crazy. HE VOTED ME BECAUSE I'M SUSPICIOUS OF HIM!!! really what is this?


some other people to look at are alex, I just want to know why you would vote me I haven't seen any other reason outside of my excuse. You distance your self from Tumaz even though you have no logical way(that I can see)

Destrox your saying that both me and Tamuz as scum is unlikely even though it could easily be busing and yet you then vote Tamuz with high suspicion of me is this protecting your self from accusations of buddying with me? wise as it maybe to distance from me with all the finger pointing at me I still find it curious.

I really want to hear from Tamuz now.

[Grum]

The more I defend myself the worse I look so I'm done with that I'm juts going to give you my thoughts.

I earlier gave my lists on who seemed scummiest and I'm getting a "lashing out at people" response. Look every thing done in this game is scummy the only way to know who's "clean or not" is being a cop or being the scum.

I have been giving you my top scummiest lists and the reasons behind them. I get called on being scum lashing out. this is incorrect and needs to be rethought Tamuz. I state my earlier concern with Xtoxm and alex. what is the difference to you between scum hunting and lashing out?

I was earlier more afraid of Tamuz because of the speed in his lynch but when he addressed the difference between mislynch and random lynch and his stance on that I felt both relieved and threatened. I can't make a defense of myself because you consider my actions that were not meant to be excuses out to be excuses. then you follow through by saying that it's my reaction to your vote tt is making me scummy. I explain myself in defense and you call it a scummy reaction. encourage me to defend and then shot me down with it being scummy to be worried about getting lynched. I'm sorry your confusing the piss out of me with your double standards.

I agree aggressive scum hunting is effective but it can easily get the wrong responses and follow up with mislynch so please be careful how you perceive things.

I want you to focus your attention on Xtoxm for his two line responses rather than my failing at defense sure lynch me in the end if you must but find other candidates before you lynch. A mislynch today could mean a missed chance to catch scum tommorrow unless you gather more information.

theres my view on your assaults please rethink but by all means continue your attacks. I'm giving you what I can.

Xtoxm why would you respond with a flattering response followed by a very general I think their okay... with out again any more explanation to why they seem okay.

[Grum]

I would like to know what kind of information you would gather from lynching me. I'm sure a few of you know the answers to that, but those of you who don't figure it out before you lynch me. Have I made buddies? who could be busing me? what would we do tomorrow (when)if he shows up town?

If you don't consider things like this please don't lynch till you do. We have an opportunity to bring this to a useful position for town. I'm suggesting you consider what your moves would be tomorrow depending on your results. I would go after Xtoxm if I were in your shoes.

I feel that while the aggressions coming from Tamuz are in fact too risky I feel he is in control over the risks. I don't trust him from my standing point but I know that if any other opportunity was present he would take care of it.

I don't trust him because it's very likely hes scum. I feel my life is in fact in jeopardy(I'll take ohh SH** for 200) I don't think that he would not lynch to gather information however if he were town. If he has nothing after committing to a lynch then you should pursue him. Destrox has given me some weird vines but I have no evidence against him myself. What is it that is causing tamuz is accusing him of? putting words into his mouth...

I think that Destrox is putting out opinions and observing as I have and that is what makes the argument against him null to me. I agree he seems scummy in some instances but I can't put my finger on it.

Good luck getting a scum to hammer, there is a case of it be weary of however but the hammerer should not be labeled scum right off.

Aldu I give you no defense because I cannot argue your opinions on me. I give you the best of my scum hunting options instead. If you must place a vote on me feel free, I see the explanation of me having no defense as a weak reason to vote. It is giving any argumentatively scum an opportunity to get away with simple WIFOM defenses, whilst leaving those of us that cannot support, or don't wish to give, back and forth WIFOM no chance.

please consider a better reason to vote. I have remained solid on my vote record of zero until given reason.

I cannot vote for people I find scummy due to the biased opinion it contains I have to work of of people that are suspicious of me, and as such cannot find concrete information back in the form of a vote. I can't give OMGUS votes nor can I take the opportunity of someones aggressive behavior.

I will not vote for Xtoxm until more information is laid before me to build a case. any thing I would vote him for now is active lurking.

Please consider the exploration of our options before carrying any more votes on me.

Also Aldu, why did you give Xtoxm an excuse for him. being "scitzo" is not good for anyone. You did wha I did on day one for someone. how is it any good to vote with out any more reason than "I think X, and Y are scum", this should be handled and fast not nurtured. Call him on it. I don't type all of this because it makes me happy when my wrists hurt, but I do it for the sake of town getting ahead D1, why can't he even try?

[Grum]

How can I make a defense for myself if you keep shooting every little thing down! All I have is my teory my line of veiw and the posts I've given you!

every thing I do is either
A) pleading
B) an excuse
C) thrashing!

I'm giving you my options and my theory. I cannot give you any thing else!
I have no 100% it is not a number I can give! Claim or what ever I'm vanilla. nothing else here.

What I'm saying is before you lynch me because I know you will with every thing I give you being scummy, Look into your options first decide what to do tommorrow. I can't freaking give you any more.

I can't vote my suspicions becasue all the information coming in on me is about me. I need info on other people to build cases.

[Grum]

okay listen I'm just frustrated with you, aldu... you know I'm talking about how I was at L1 twice, every thing I gave at that point was considered by you to be one of those things. I am no longer there. I have been pursuing other people but at the time I would look bad when voting.

I was in a hurry just then during class but needed to get my frustration out. Every one is suspicious of me greatly, since Post 1! I want to see you pressure Xtoxm, you admit to giving him a break. Why is it you are still on me.

I finally saw some real explanations from Xtoxm which excited me but it's still rather slim only three lines this time... a line per page added could get us some where lol.

[Grum]

D1 means day 1
L1 means one vote from lynch

Did tamuz say he'd be out for a while again?

I see where he's going with the words in the mouth but it's not the fact that he wanted pressure it's how fast he went with it. worse followin that anohter vote imeadiatly after it, claiming different reasons and yet not showing results...

I'm not sure that you really should call pressuring some one healthy if you label them scum right off the bat... it's something you would do to yourself in that position but the reaction isn't going to be what you expect all the time.

Xtoxm... I'm severly confused with you still... I see reason behind your words but nothing I can call solid, I feel I may have you wrong but I would liek to hear a healthy paragraph of supporting details or something close...

[Grum]

@seawolf thank you for not berating me and giving me an oportunity to do some actual scum hunting. I know that when my vote goes down it will be deserved I have an Idea already of whom I may be voting but the info I'm gathering is quite a bit to sort through... I'm in proscess to building a case should be in shortly or at lest by tonight.

[Grum]

So I have to get to class but for future refrence and the lack of a memory stick to save off of notepad, I'll leave this here. I will be refering to it soon.
38

Vote tamuz

[b/]

43

Page 2...You don't have to give a reason this early...

45

no

48

57

Guys seriously, page 2, first post, there was nothing real behind my vote.

59

Unvote Vote Grum

61

Because he's put me at the top of his list for random voting.

76

I'm thinking Tamuz and Grum are the scum right now.

Possibly Alex being one if they aren't.

Not got much more to say than that right now.

81

Hmm, possibly. But that isn't based at all on interactions, merely on finding the indivuals on their own scummy.

However, yes, it is possibile Tamuz was attempting some kind of a distancing act, I would not rule that out as a possibility.

84

Grum had just done something scummy, so this raised him to point point of worthiness for a vote change. Plus, like I said, my Tamuz vote was random, I don't think I really started to form this opinion until ater I changed anyway.

Not to Alex, because i'm not as uspicious of him as the others.

93

Um, what? Big post explaining my play? Are you serious? Only I explain my play.

95

How have I not explained? There is nothing i've done that has gone unexplained.

97

Lol, I love that line, i'm sigging it!

100

Why do you feel the need to respond to everything?

In my experience, that's scum logic.

104

Ok. That's not a bad response, actually.

On your thing about Clyde and Destrox. I have definatley noticed a difference in them. Clyde and Ald are looking the most townie in my eyes.

115

Grum's most recent post does actually kinda strike me as town.

I think a scum would probably vote me and we'd both be at L-1, with Clyde making a desicion, rather than holding off on me because he doesn't think i'm scum.

I'll

Unvote

For the moment.

130

I'm starting to think that perhaps an Alex vote is the way to go.

Partly because i'm finding it hard to see 3 townies on my wagon, and scum not doing anything to try and instigate my lynch.

this is all of his posts so read through them...

[Grum]

I'll be in later tonight it's my lunch break at work and I'm not supposed to be on...

[Grum]

I was simply getting out a reference on the page so no one had to go searching as I was hoping to get to it within the hour(didn't happen)

38- very random and I expected an explanation considering the situation. Maybe an "Ohh Shizz didn't realize" but instead we got a response in 43 meaning he didn't care... Xtoxm should be renamed the maverick with his"I don't care crew you" attitude.

seawolf stares back at him wanting more. and gets

no

very simple very rude(IMHO)

Seawolf then fires the gun for pressure and effect with a vote

here is where this gets good, Aldu pokes his head in and makes a very scum buddy nudge like post

Post more content-filled posts, please.

Hey don't do that it isn't helping us...getting a roll emot in response... nothing else.

this seems less likely to be to that effect but still more urges to give explanations from aldu in 53

then wait whats this a reason...kind of ish...57
I start to see that whilst Tamuz is against me and rightfully so Xtoxm had nothing in the slightest so I change suspicion getting an OMGUS vote in return. even better it was 59 not saying anything to explain why...

Aldu suddenly changes his view of me in post 60 and loads some more suspicion on me, whilst the guy that yet again gave nothing productive hands out

Oh, and while I was posting Xtoxm posted again. With absolutely no reasoning!!! I do not think he is scum, but it is infuriating to see a player contribute nothing.

to Xtoxm...
61 clearly states it was omgus... not why I'm suspicious just that I'm against him and there for must die.
62 aldu

FINALLY A REASON

now am I the only one that sees a "that's better buddy give them more!"?
aldu carries out a discussion about me and Xtoxm fades away...

74 alex gets it and calls Xtoxm out on this.

76 goes on to say I think the people you all think are suspicious looking are scum... ohh and the guy that voted me looks suspicious...

77 aldu brings up more on me and tamuz...
81 Xtoxm agrees with Aldu on the distance stuf to keep a distraction going...

84 yeah grum looks worse than tamuz so... thats why I'm voting him ohh and the whole tamuz vote was meaningless. alex is on my list but low priority...

nothing special for some time then 93 in response to rahul explaining Xtoxms posts Xtoxm states only he can explain them... and nothing more... no explanation....

seawolf says "welllll????"

and 95 "I have I swear!"(even though we haven't seen it, must be invisible...)

96

If you ask me, Xtoxm comes across more as a townie acting schizo than as scum.

- aldu...
so now you give him an excuse?(I thought excuses were bad or does this mean I can slid too?)

100 my personal favorite! "Explanations!?!?! who does that?! wait you want me to? You must be scum if you want me to explain my votes!" ohh and whats more it's in his experience... Xtoxm do you work wiht the Bush administration? just a thought...

101

In any case, I think Tamuz is pretty pro-town, just a little bit aggressive, not that that's a bad thing. Grum looks pretty scummy. I still think Xtoxm is just a schizo townie.

- aldu... "yeah so grums got to be scum tamuz is to good a player to attack and btw no one think anything Xtoxm is important its okay he's schizo..."

114 all out grum=scum post. okay you can have an opinion I'm down with that...
Xtoxm then tries to pull out maybe to look more random than partnerish(scum don't often like to vote the same guy because that shows to much partnering, IMO)
then it's back and forth with me and Aldu a little from here a little from there by other people all of which aldu agrees with...
then we practically get to todays stuff... I'll point out any other things I catch later however!, I will be doing something you mostly accuse me of not committing to.

I see it as possible to push around some more info...

IMO alex isn't around to defend himself so it would be fitting for Xtoxm to vote him now... he just did this whilst I wrote all this. goody.

I know this brings Xtoxm to L1 I hope he'll talk more now.

I guaranty I will follow through with a lynch if nothing comes out asap more than just "I didn't mean anything*puppy face*" I see no reason you could do this and get away with it.

simply Aldu has a lot of interesting interactions with Xtoxm... I want to know why.

I'm confident no one will lynch till we all agree there is enough info today. I want reactions before we follow through but I am committed to finding out more and hearing more out of our puppy Xtoxm.

[Grum]

I forgot... lol EBWOP

vote: Xtoxm

[Grum]

Xtoxm, I think you should compose a reasonably large post in your defense, and give evidence that you're pro-town. I don't really want to see someone get lynched when they haven't even defended themselves.

your right I am getting on you for this. I am not calling you scum for it however. I was saying that It seemed very odd for your interactions to be so similar to that of a scum buddy. the above quote however is what I am/have been trying to get at for some time.

This is not a anti town move to ask for more information but a Finally yes!! doesn't seem to fit the same mold.

I'm still waiting for better explanations from Xtoxm... I don't want to lynch town but He doesn't look it to me. so schizo vibe for you is my scum vibe. hence my vote.

BTW I voted him to L1 knowing that a fast lynch would be far too scummy so it would be safe to have him there, it pressured him(not well apparently) and I wouldn't have voted if he was already at L1(I checked it about four times) seawolf I understand you feel cautious about someone lynching him fast but only a fool would do that. I want first to have more pressure applied to show we are serious because know I am.

I would second want some real talking out of him if not we all will agree to hammer and then he'll be gone.

something along the lines of 100% agreement by saying aye or nay. I feel that little push can sometimes crack a hard shell. then we request a hammer by a chosen voter(as to not get a confusing mix of someone eager to hammer) sound good?

[Grum]

Grum, deciding who hammers sounds like a horrid idea to me.

I figured but I'm hopeful that one day I may find a safer way to vote someone and protect the town a little further...

any way It was a combination of my post and tauz's that got this off so fast. some people thought I was scum some thought he was. some may even still think it... okay they likely do but are to confused to figure out what they know.

I'm just proposing ideas here...

[Grum]

we really need new opinions so real em in please...

[Grum]

well isn't this great... I'll wait but I want to know who tamuz and seawolf would vote for rather than ask them to place it due to the quick lynch factor. I really haven't got anything to say. I am here though.

[Grum]

same here... I keep checking back should we poke him with a stick?(prod)

[Grum]

no, no, I'm here still. I just want to be able to respond to twilgles.

[Grum]

I pretty much already stated my reasons... I could give them again but in many games off these forums I've found myself to be very talkitive without helping because I flooded the thread with my opinions... I died after giving all my logic which was accurate by the way... but due to my nature of not making sense I blew a lot of smoke and no one listened... soo I want you to feel free to ask me questions so I may give replies and hopefully get something out before the scum push a lynch on me before deadline.

[Grum]

The question is why are you defending him so much now and he isn't defending himself? are you afraid to lose a partner and get lynched for buddying up with him? it seems really bad for you to be so defensive of some one that you don't know is town. you have no more info more than we do regarding Xtoxm do you? becasue if yo do share it with us even though it is imposible for there to be a mason in this set up. Schizo is noreason to get a free ticket. I had to and still am fighting to explain my first post, why can't Xtoxm give a real response to all his?

seriously why would I vote tamuz? he is actually scum hunting and just becasue he voted me on a very scummy post I should vote him? H*** no. I'm voting the person that looks scummiest to me. I would vote him if I was mafia trying to go with how scummy he was in voting me so fast. It may be a possibility but seriously that's not close to how Xtoxm is acting.

okay so heres the break down... I made a bad post and am terrible at defense for the most part... I do try...

Tamuz is scummy for voting so fast and that seems alittle scary because we can't be sre who else he'll vote, that hasn't been the case though so for now I feel he's off the hook.

Xtoxm is not giving any real input. seriously how is that protown? that's stale tactics and I'll admit it's seemin to work... I don't wantt see him late game or in game unless he cleans it up.

Aldu suddenly is backing up Xtoxm without any form of confirmation that he's town or not. all he has is the fact he seems schizo which isn't helpful at all. And now he's calling him protown schizo... how does that even work? I'll tell you for me it doesn't. what does is scum hunting and while it seems very frightening I'll admit that tamuz has been doing his job. I will not let an active lurker get away with being useless. So I hope taht the rest of you who are voting tamuz take a closer look at Xtoxm, heck even me or aldu, but seriously Tamuz shouldbe given a break if we want to proceed with this game properly.

[Grum]

the only reason to avoid a mislynch is to stop the lose of information. you are neither helpful or intelligent when you suggest lynching yourself...

I would like to see cases on alex before we quick lynch him in fear of a deadline mishap...

Xtoxm it's essential you learn that:
Lots of posts < few content posts

in no way is it better if you post things like

"it's called reading try it"

ohh wait that's what your doing. If you want to prove your not mafia then guilt tripping is not the way to go.

I can't help with a lynch of myself

that only works if your a jester... clearly your not. otherwise I'd give you a medal.

if anything we shouldn't start voting on someone that has no votes on them but rahter tack on the ones that do.

okay deadline tonight and a real hard push is neccesary. *SHUVE*
VOTE PEOPLE!!

okay so we don't even have time to talk it over this time. lets get things done right please. heres a great time to make points and stick it to the scum. reread if you must but get your vote in and please think of the children.

[Grum]

well I don't want to burst any bubbles but if I was scum why would I push for a lynch and then make myself look scummy by lynching one of the people I advocate... simple... its WIFOM. the whole game is really but you can only tink as far as your opponents can before it becomes useless.

Why would I bring that up though... because there is the off chance that aldu is right and I may have been wrong about Xtoxm... it's really no excuse for his posting patterns but none the less he maybe townie and that is important enough.

I'm currently upset with twiglees he actually did promise big posts with content and never gave any thing...

seawolf brings up a good point in that the three long silent players were part of the non voters... however townie this may seem I'm skeptical and feel its an attempt to look townie and at the same time spread some suspicion... but I like the bringing up the scum partner matter. we still need pairs of suspicious people to worry about.

that's my feel on this...

[Grum]

Vote Alex

okay... why?... you know what I'm still not happy with you.

vote: Xtoxm

Now your giving the I wish it was me speach... well guess what I wish it was you. your far less helpful. that alone gives me reason enough to suspect scum.

seawolf I see where your coming from with that but tamuz was also a high treat to me.
It is still rather sound judgment, not true, but sound none the less.

I can't defend myself over mafia actions however so I can't give any insight that they might have.(who is and who isn't town)

I'm a little cautious with you however because of my last game where the most useful person was scum.

tamus I do hope you stay around a while longer, at lest give us some thoughts you have on what happened yesterday. please.

[Grum]

cue jeapordy musik....

well I can't really say much about my omgus vote... I was really just pissed off for the same reason for D1, he's not helping...

I need a silver bullet on some one to change my opinion of Xtoxm I will be much more enthusiastic if he is the one to find it. some kind of game changing event.

[Grum]

IMMEDIATELY!!! do some thing save the town by casing an up roar if you have to heck I will I'll role claim! I'm vanilla! I don't even care lets not let this thread Die!!

[Grum]

by your logic Xtoxm I feel that alex should state his opinion on every one, I'd like to know his current bearings

as for me I neer seem to make sense and I appoligize for the grammar. I will say that I don't like this in AWA's post...

AWA is an extremely unreliable person and should be lynched as soon as possible.

btw that's my face your insulting...

so AWA I don't like your input much but it may be influencial I can't really say that that's a bad thig but your additude is fairly distant on a few others. what's your opinion on Xtoxm... why do you feel aldu had his veiws on Xtoxm, and why did Xtoxm change on in favor of me unoticed?

how many times hve I changed my choice of attack? tamuz aldu and xtoxm I'm naturaly suspicious of everyone but you are jummping out in calling me a frequent changer with out saying howmany times I have changd versus every one else. making grand claims liek that is very scummy.

[Grum]

I love that movie... couldn't remember the name though thanks... I gotta go back and look at things... I had been thinking of voting alex, but I can't figure out why...

I think it was lurking but... I can't be sure...

what's so bad about being at L1? mmmm pressure much?

Unvote

VOTE: ALEX

[Grum]

now see the fun thing was it was meant to look like a slip, I was attempting to pressure without goin to far...

I've been attempting several different moves such as aggression against AWA and the vote with out actually voting, for pressure reasons... I haven't dropped Xtoxm much but he is starting to actually talk a little bit more...

I am curious why it doesn't concern Alex...

[Grum]

welcome, and seriously I hadn't intended the vote to count to start with, I wanted it to look like it, pressure, but it doesn't work well on my side... really ask me something I'll tell you anything I have on my mind in the most strait forward way I can. I simply don't hide things, I'll try to mask things, but really if you consider my writing a scum tell I should have been lynched by every person here, thankfully people look more into content than grammar.

You act as if we all have PHD's in English. I don't and guess what I never will, I explained that my typing and grammar was rough, so if you need something cleared up, than no problem.

example:

"...I haven't dropped Xtoxm much but he is starting to actually talk a little bit more..."
means:
"I am still suspicious of Xtoxm, but Xtoxm has started to post content in his posts, this is an improvement."

clearer? look your major issue is you devote to one person and then focus on every aspect that person looks scummy rather than the pro town parts, at lest that's how it appears.

[Grum]

well if we were to go to lynching me today and I show you I'm town, don't let Alex off the hook, call him out on everything. I can't truly prove anything but my intention was for it to look like I meant the vote, but I didn't want to put him at L1, I admit it's scummy but every action can be taken that wa so I generally don't care... I try to find scum, period. soo that said, I want to know why Zazier and Xtoxm are even bringing up any other games. rules are rules don't talk about on going games out side their thread.

I'm glad to see some one can evoke Xtoxm though at lest into talking more context than quantity.

keep it up Zazier.

I await your thoughts, even the ones that put me down and out...

I'm particularly confused now... I honesty have no stand out suspects...

I'm pulling a blank here. I'd like to see cases on people so I could get a better stand, and yeah I admit I'll likely need to bandwagon, but hopefully I can find proper counter logic and that will give me a better insight...

[Grum]

it's one in the morning I was curious and now I have to respond to a beast! I have to say thank you for giving us that normally a huge post like that makes me think overly town and possibly scum buddy defending (it was fairly gracious to me) me being me I now have to figure out if it was scum budding up with town or town truly faithful in another town... I can't be too cautious.

right now I'm about to zonk out... try to get back tomorrow but its a busy day ahead...

quick point however, my switches in the game is because frankly I feel like testing new strategies on occasion... they usually fail, like the hammer choice thing I usually realize the failings of it and drop it...

ehh to much already, night.

[Grum]

I'm not sure what to say this is all about my past posts... and I don't want to lurk... so we have AWA who is very avid about me being likely scum, what is it you would like to push AWA? to build a solid case?

Clyde likely has the best understanding of me, which is still little, That said I need to explain that I've been working on methods I've seen before, claiming vanilla town to build suspicion of the scum of me not really being what I claim.

I saw an opportunity to attempt the aggressive roll, it didn't work. I'm not sure if this is still being counted but t be safe,

UNVOTE

. To be honest I've kinda fallen out of interest in the game, due to the fact that I really don't have a stance of my own. I can't figure people out, even though I can understand them load and clear.

AWA assumes a lot of things and I don't particularly like it, claiming as if he calls the hits for every one else that is suspicious of me, that they feel I'm solid scum. statistics mean nothing when in this game, every one is trying some thing. and statistically speaking out of the four we have a I believe 50% chance of a mafia member involved in it.

it really means nothing because there is no proof between people simply being suspicious of some one else.
You act like Aldu was committed sole to my death. He had no way of knowing what my alignment was and neither do you. Only I know that(well I told you but you can only take my words with a grain of salt or something like that).

AWA take a moment to build a case off of slip ups and subliminal messages rather than putting words in other players mouths. it's not because I'm confident you can't I know I make loads of mistakes, but I say it because it's anti-town to be so overbearing on one player, and to make stances like that. Mafia love it when two town players kill each other.

[Grum]

hey I visit daily(except yesterday I was at a FNM, Friday night magic the gathering tourney late into the night) I haven't said anything because 1) I was waiting for Zaziers post referring to me, and I haven't had any real input to share, I would like to request we back off the whole voting in bold with me as an example I think two people have voted me without either realizing or they may be scum looking for an "accidental" lynch which its likely not the latter.

hi pear bear.

I need a list of who's who now though cuz I'm lost on who was tamuz who was sea wold and that kinda thing.

interesting to note pear bear is the first person I've ever met that hasn't voted me upon entering the game. whats else is that sea wolf before him also thought me to be townie(attempt to gain trust?)

I can't really say.

so yeah I'm here and I'll answer questions... speaking of which I think I was asked one... well okay rereading i see it wasn't but I saw tamuz as less scummy because I saw active scum hunting, scary but active. I gather information off every thing involvong interactions, that's how I scum hunt (because I spend most my time defending myself) I see xtoxm is getting more active but I have yet to see any real scum hunting (but he may be like me and doing it through observation) and that's why I'm not voting him right now.

[Grum]

well aside from that actually sounding alot funnier now that I think of it I realize he is suspicious of me so it's null...

and thank you for the list.

[Grum]

Vote:pear Bear

yeah... P.O.K.E.

[Grum]

lol again post count doesn't mean you have a bigger ----, you know... yeah...

P.O.K.E. I'm poking you... drammatic effect. and... yeah that's about it. your in no danger yet but I was looking at your reaction. I think I'm getting results so I stay with it. I voted for pure observation every one has been suspicious of me at one point and most have voted me, I only vote with care not with OMGUS in mind.

that said I like your plea to emotions with your sudden scum WILL win Idea. a little self preservation? rather than building a case or defending you push an already stated guess. Dest has his reasons I have mine.

[Grum]

every one has a level of suspect to me every one starts off as scummy and it goes in a sort of pie graph manner some one is scum in there but by percentage some one has to fill in that crater. I like to vote people at 70% and to be honest there is no way I can be exactly 70% sure. and with that it's only because I find two people the most scummy at this moment that I chose who to vote for you were tied with some one honestly and now, your beyond them. (Xtoxm was the other).

I can't say you are 100% scummy at any point and your definitely at the 70% now because of your reaction.

when some one goes up in arms they are either panicky like me or scum worried to be brought in the spot light.
I felt that in a tie you would be a more worthy gauge and so I voted. I had no worry my self to make a dangerous vote because you aren't near lynch. I can't make a case on you until I have more to work with but for now you have my vote.

your solution is to post more and make a good case on someone. be active and show your a Town player by scum hunting.

or you could go OMGUS and make things harder for me to figure out, continue with this idea of me and dest working together which might from your eyes work well but from me he's still on the pie of scummy.

I hope we have a cop in this game. that usually gives us things to work off but if not I will have to use my guesses and my reading of others plays to gauge whos town and who's not.

[Grum]

... digging... I have no shovel...

look I'm saying it's hard to build up a case when did I say I didn't suspect you? are you trying to dim my vote by calling me a fool or simply inconsistent? I may change my views on players but I take my vote very seriously.

Your not making this any easier by simply trying to dumb my posts down. I don't need your help. why not try to make a case and prove my "partnering" with Dest. I've made no real move toward or away from him. as far as I know your all scum. but I make what I can from what I get and what I get is more from you then that of Dest. simple logic.

[Grum]

I'm with Zaz this time around I may be suspicious of PB but your not helping when asked to specifically...
right now your post could make this game a) move faster
and b) save you big time.

otherwise to move the game along..

unvote, and vote: alex

he's moved up there real fast and will stay until given reason not to...

[Grum]

well to be honest I try'ed to be aggressive with pearbear thinking I could make him screw up. my first shot was to try and make friends as early as post one and figure out the responses of players I should have gone with my first assessment of tamuz with his speedy attack on me. but after alex jumped on I knew that mafia buddies wouldn't bunch together so fast but couldn't make it out. I suck at typing in general and that tends to mess my gaming up. so I've given a little break to the game. I'm still in one but it's on hold due to missing players and the mod.
I need to work out a way to get my results with out the struggle of defending my self so much. I was wrong on xtoxm but seriously that kind of inactive active lurking thing just made me think you were scum.