Newbie 604: Over - IH loses!

[evilevilmatt]

/confirm (If my avatar is too much let me know and I'll change it)

[evilevilmatt]

I'm sure this isn't the place for this but maybe there is a simple answer I'm missing. In the F11 setup we are using the second option is 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies . Why would there be a roleblocker when there are 7 townies non of which have power-roles?

[evilevilmatt]

I guess I am questioning the setup itself. Having roleblockers with nothing to block seems pointless.

[evilevilmatt]

I see now. That makes perfect sense. Thank you.

[evilevilmatt]

Wait, which cow are you voting for?

I

Vote : conqueso

for not having an avatar.

[evilevilmatt]

Wait, which cow are you voting for?

I

Vote : conqueso

for not having an avatar.

There's more than one..?

I believe your vote could be for either both Henry Cow or hasdgfas.

[evilevilmatt]

please ignore the word both in the post above this one...fast typing ftl

[evilevilmatt]

Is the pissing contest over? I don't want you guys to get any on my shoes.
But hey if anyone (besides those two) wants to start up a bandwagon I'd love to discuss it.

[evilevilmatt]

Cop, eh?

unvote

Now this opinion may be a little late but here it is. Role fishing may indeed help anyone weather they be mafia, empowered townie, or vanilla townie, but who does it help the most? Clearly the mafia can do the most this information. Hence the common view that rolefishing is anti-town.

Now on to the future. Since we went out of the random voting stage to band wagoning someone who is now claiming cop, (unless theres a counterclaim) I guess we are back to random voting.

vote : etherealfrog

now you definitely are not forgotten.

[evilevilmatt]

Is that a request for help with an OMGUS lynch of Henry Cow? Cause if its any other kind of lynch I could get behind it.

My money is on etherealfrog. would like to see more though.

[evilevilmatt]

Um, wtf? I voted him first. And he voted me purely because I voted him, and has given very poor excuses for trying to look like he doing something. I think he's scum.

I just figured requesting a lynch was the next step up on the omgus ladder. Kinda like a double dog dare. I'm gonna switch my vote I think we need something going here even if it is a stretch. what choice do we have when no one posts.

unvote : vote Henry Cow

[evilevilmatt]

Things came up but I'm here now. I don't want to share the details.

Heres my list - nhat style.

hasdgfas - I have no real read. he's like spock, the voice of reason and logic. tries to get more out of others but doesn't give his own opinion. Not that that is a bad thing. It's just makes me want more from him. A vote or fos from him would be excellent.

Xtoxm - frustrated and claims vanilla. does not seem to conflict with previous posts. Besides Henry Cow who else do you like to be scum?

conqueso - I voted for him until he made the cop claim. Seems like he wants to do everything in his power to stir up arguments and keep them going (especially if it involves Xtoxm). Yes it can be effective but it can also be distracting. Are you happy with Xtoxm's vanilla claim? Where do you go from here? If Xtoxm is still your number 1, who is your number 2?

Schnitte - his top 2 are Xtoxm and nhat. He is defending Henry Cow who I have placed my vote on. I want to hear more about your nhat suspicions. We might be thinking the same thing. Then again we might not.

Henry Cow - 5 posts. 1 confirm. 1 random vote on me. 1 vote on Xtoxm without reasons. 3 No content. I got nothing other than the Xtoxm vote without a reason is questionable. I mean maybe it was to put pressure on him, maybe it was random or maybe hes scum silently trying to get a lynch.

etherealfrog/RealityFan - ef-4 posts. 1 to confirm. 1 vote conqueso. 2 no content. RF- just got here. I got nothing.

Tyfo - 4 posts, 1 to confirm. 3 with nothing in them. I got nothing.

nhat - I saved you for last. I'm not sure what to make of you yet. but in response to your questions of me - IMO the only way to get anything done on day one is to bandwagon. We can all point fingers all day long but if no one ever votes then what is the point. Putting a few votes on someone should loosen their tongue. It also tends to loosen the tongues of everyone else. So far we have 2 claims. We have people defending other people. We are getting the information we need or will need at a later time. So in conclusion - putting pressure on people/bandwagoning works. (p.s. some of the acronyms you use confuse me.)

Right now I'm really enjoying seeing how people associate with one another. I was really hoping for a Xtoxm/conqueso brillant distancing argument but it looks like that was just wishful thinking. But it did get me thinking about who else might be distancing and who might be protecting. I think we will see soon enough. I'm not changing my vote yet, as I am not convinced of anything at this time. Have no fear though, change is coming. I just need to find that one thing that I am missing. I know it's out there and it pisses me off that I am missing it.

also can we please get an official vote count?

[evilevilmatt]

Oh sweet. I'm finally a suspect. I like RealityFan already.

But to explain why I do bandwagon a lot it's for information. I feel confidant enough to remove my vote before a lynch happens. I figure it also must tempt scum to drop a quick lynching hammer. Easy to spot that.

The quote you made on 215 is different though. I was asking for Xtoxm to give an actual reason to lynch Henry Cow. That reason has never come...

[evilevilmatt]

Henry Cow - 5 posts. 1 confirm. 1 random vote on me. 1 vote on Xtoxm without reasons. 3 No content. I got nothing other than the Xtoxm vote without a reason is questionable. I mean maybe it was to put pressure on him, maybe it was random or maybe hes scum silently trying to get a lynch.

His vote on Xtoxm could be scummy, I'm not sure. At that point I knew it was a stretch but I was hoping for some kind of reaction from either him or Xtoxm but I didn't get anything at all.

[evilevilmatt]

Okay, thanks.

P.S. "Henry Cow - 5 posts. 1 confirm. 1 random vote on me. 1 vote on Xtoxm without reasons. 3 No content."

Doesn't 1+1+1+3=6?

you are correct it should be -

Henry Cow - 5 posts. 1 confirm. 1 random vote on me. 1 vote on Xtoxm without reasons. 2 No content.

[evilevilmatt]

1. Xtoxm; 2. nhat; 3. hasdgfas

One of them will surely be investigated tonight. If I end up dead tomorrow morning, we'll know there's no doctor, and we'll know at least one of the mafia (assuming second level meta game, which seems to be how the first and third players on that list are playing).

This is gonna get me into trouble in some peoples book but I have to disagree with you on Xtoxm. When you guys are saying he is pushing for a fast lynch and trying to lynch someone who isn't here, that doesn't seem scummy to me on day 1. That seems like getting the game going. conqueso did look like a good lynch up until the cop claim.

nhat on the other hand tried to keep the conqueso bandwagon going even after the claim and I find that a giant red flag. In post 140 you claim that you were really trying to get other to voice there opinion but in fact you do this completely seperately from your angry post in 117. You were the first person to react to the claim and you angrily exclaim that your vote stands. Once other people failed to act the same way then you switched to trying to trying to get others to voice their opinions. Well I'm not buying it.

unvote , vote nhat

If we were trying to distance ourselves from each other with a fake fight, we went

way

overboard.

Thats why it would be so perfect. If you are going to do something, do it right. But as you can see above I don't think Xtoxm is scum so I disregard this crazy theory.

[evilevilmatt]

However, it looks like you are fond of the bandwagons

It's true and I have explained that.

I'd like to know why you agree with xtoxm just lynching anyone to get the game moving is less scummy than what I've done.

bandwagon /= lynch.

I would have supported a conqueso lynch. He was acting very anti-town in my eyes.

I will now support you being lynched and heres why.

1) keeping your vote on a claimed cop is the same as voting for him in my eye. Granted he is not 100% confirmed to be the cop but a claimed cop without a counterclaim is still a claimed cop without a counter claim. (117)
2) distracting from the issue with asking for quiet people to speak up. (133)
3) backtracking and trying to make it look like 1 was really 2. (140)

[evilevilmatt]

you do realize keeping your vote on him left him at L-1. Any scum who hadn't voted yet could have dropped a quick hammer. It looks like thats what you wanted. Xtoxm was the first person to remove his vote from conqueso possibly saving him from a quick lynch. He didn't need to do that as fast as he did.

[evilevilmatt]

So we are back to format speculation. <Yawn> I'll be around, but quiet.

[evilevilmatt]

With the cop claimed, he will be either killed or RB'ed, depending on the setup...So here's an idea.

If we have a doc, should they claim?

This way, scum can't claim doc, because if they are 2 goons and the cop gets NKed, we know they are scum, and if they have a RB the real doc will counter.

So if doc claims today, uncountered, we have a confirmed innocent, or a confirmed scum, come night.

Wait......What!?! You can't serious. That doesn't sit well at all.

[evilevilmatt]

Lynching the cop on day one because he wouldn't claim is worse then having him claim and getting night killed.

My scorecard reads
The lynchers for Xtoxm the townie - conqueso, killa seven, Schnitte, nhat, Xtoxm . (Only 3 of which are still alive.)
Put Xtoxm at L-1 - nhat
Pushed very hard for the hammer - killa seven

People who didn't hammer Xtoxm when they had the chance (posted when he was at L-1) - RealityFan, hasdgfas and myself
People who didn't post after L-1 - Tyfo

I'm sticking with my day one vote.

vote : nhat

but also heres a gem worth noting from my number 2.

Hammer the scum.

[evilevilmatt]

I have a medical procedure tomorrow. I will be back in action in a few days.

[evilevilmatt]

Sorry nhat I missed a few things from you that I need to respond to. (and you posted them before I went away too, so I feel really bad here. My apologies)

I'd like to know why you were too afraid to put the hammer down after xtoxm was making suspect comments, trying to fish for docs. You just didn't want any heat on yourself. Explain that.

Hammering him when he was town would be the heat you are describing. Sounds like you knew he was town before he hammered himself.
.
.
.
Also you may have notice that I was defending Xtoxm in the same post in which I voted for you. I volunteered to take a different kind of heat when I defended him. So now my vote for you still stands.

Time for a short rundown.

I'm not going to quote the entire thing here because I'm going to quote bits and pieces below. I'd like most posts like this from everyone. Very helpful.

evilevilmatt: I am wary about you being on me.

Suspicious of me because I'm suspicious of you. Nice!

If I am lynched and everyone finds out that I'm town, then that's going to be some heat on you.

With great power comes great responsibility (and dire consequences). I accept this every time I place or remove a vote.

I'd suggest you start looking elsewhere.

I'll look where I want.

Realityfan: You've been lying back quite a lot, posting here and there, but not adding anything new. More assertion would be nice.

He's voting for Killa Seven. Sounds pretty assertive to me. But I do agree that more useful posts would be better.

- - -

evilevilmatt - I'm always in away in the weekends, with very few exceptions. And he was put to L-1 on saturday.

Would you have hammered? I know this is kind of a loaded question but I'd like you to take a crack at it anyway. Also your big post for this day consists of mostly setup speculation again. No attempt at scum hunting. Why?

- - -
@Schnitte- on day one you were voting for nhat but switched over xtoxm because it didn't like a nhat lynch was going to happen. I find jumping onto this particular wagon for this particular reason suspect but what I really wanna know is. Did something change where you don't think nhat is scum today?

- - -
@Killa seven - seems you are on just about everyone seems to find you scummy. What do you have to say about that? Who do you find scummy?

- - -
I know I'm kind of all over place here but I'm trying to give this game a B-12 shot to the arm here.

I still think nhat is the play. I'd like to point out that nhat was on conqueso's list of possible scum but so was Xtoxm and hasd but I think there were there out of xtoxm spite. So take it with a grain of salt.

Xtoxm did not have nhat on his list but he did have Killa Seven. These are my 1 and 2 for scum.

[evilevilmatt]

Evilevilmatt, I know you are on my nuts and everything, but do me a favor and not take my words out of context. You took my comment for Realityfan and switched it on me to make me look dumb. "Sounds pretty assertive to me". He made his vote after I said that, so stop reaching.

You are right. He did vote after your comment. I apologize if you felt I was trying to make you look dumb. My point is he's voting and you are not. If you were going to vote right now who would it be for?

Also, talking about this heat, it's pretty much agreed on that xtoxm was scummy at the time, so please spare me that "I knew he was town" line, making it look like you were defending him, trying to play innocent. Look at post 302, you knew that xtoxm was fishy, too.

post 228 - I disagree with conqueso calling xtoxm scum. This is before he asked for a doc claim which 302 is in responce to. I still don't understand him asking for a doc claim. In all honestly I did think he was town but frustrated with conqueso. His posts mimicked what I was thinking and feeling about conqueso. (It was scary.) But in the end it doesn't really matter. You will believe what you want.

PLUS, you are on me because I was one of conqueso's suspects? Even Stevie Wonder can see that won't hold up.

I said take it with a grain of salt. I know it doesn't hold much weight but surely we can't ignore it.

- - -

Quoting myself will be of most help, with a highlight:

Xtotm hammering himself was very unhelpful, as normally we could've used the extra insight -

though I would have voted him I had the chance.

I actually find it kind of helpful that he's gone, as he was a disturbing element in the search for scum, and it was better to lynch him now, than if he were a lynching choice in a LyLo situation.

Yes, I would have hammered him, most things spoke against him. However, I do believe we will find at least one of the mafia amongst those who voted for him.

I will not scumhunt for the sake of scumhunting. I point of what I believe is suspicious when I see it.

(I switched the bold to where I thought it should be)

I saw that comment when I first read it and I had a reaction to it but I missed it completely during my reread. >.<

Anything suspicious things you would like to point out at this time? Any input would be helpful.

- - -

I want to ask the IC's questions about general gameplay but I think I'm going to look around the site in other places first as I don't want to take away from the dialog in this game. If all else fails I guess I will ask here...I don't know. We will see.

[evilevilmatt]

EvilMatt, I don't agree with you stating Nhat is suspicious because Conqueso said he was and Killa is suspicious because of Xtoxm. They had less info then we do now so we should make our own conclusions.

The information we have that they did not is that the 2 people that are dead were town. So it should be almost a given that what they had said was not intended to mislead the town. They could still be completely wrong, but their opinion was protown biased. I felt it should be noted, not that it was 100% or even a major case against him. It's kinda a moot point anyway as I have come around on nhat.

unvote : nhat

He is good for this game and therefor good for town.
- - -
@hasdgfas I'm not going to quote the three points you made in your last post I am just going to number my responses to them.
1) There not much I can say as a defense. You are drawing from personal experience, but can you clear up exactly what you are thinking is a scum tell please?I guess I am not seeing how you got to this conclusion. I know most people thought xtoxm was scum but because I didn't I am scum? I know I must being missing something.
2) I was a bit over zeaolus there. As the game goes on I realize one has to be suspious of everyone else at all times. So what nhat said was not out of the ordinary.
3) note it if you like, but contrary to what you are thinking I was not trying to defend Realityfan, I was trying to get nhat to give his opinion and possibly vote. I thought I had made my intentions clear with a follow up post.
- - -
I not sure what to do about killa seven. I want to vote for him but I don't. It does just seem to be too easy but at the same time there is logic behind it. I'm going to mull it over. Already having 2 votes my 3rd vote would be L-1 and a possible quick lynch. That is not what I want.

[evilevilmatt]

362 confuses me. I don't like the idea of pretending to be scum at all if you are a townie. Even if your intentions are good you are still distracting from actual scum.

I will probably reread over night or tomorrow and place a vote. I don't want a no lynch. I'm pretty sure who I'm going to be voting for but it cant hurt to reread one more time. (Also want to see something from Tyfo)

[evilevilmatt]

vote : Killa Seven.

I was looking for a way not to do this because it does just seem like its too easy or too obvious. It was a strange way of thinking and I'm done with it. Also I don't feel comfortable with putting my vote anywhere else. Well maybe for Tyfo for not contributing but seems unlikely to matter this close to deadline. (someone had to say it)

[evilevilmatt]

oh man! What a learning experience this game is. I was hoping nhat and I would both be alive this round. I suppose that makes me start to understand why he was chosen. Gives me something to go on. hmmm let me reread and check on a few things.

I'm thinking that I'm going to vote for evilevilmatt at this point, but I'm not going to, because it's LyLo.

Thank you. We to need to catch lightning in a bottle twice here to win and I am very confused at this point. We all need to be absolutely certain before 1 vote is placed. With 2 mafia still out there and only taking 3 to lynch. The 2 mafia can jump on one wrong vote and win the game.

[evilevilmatt]

That would also go very well with what you said about finding scum on Xtoxm's wagon. Since everyone else (including Xtoxm) was town.

I also notice a link between Schitte and RealityFan. Looks like they were working on steamrolling Killa Seven. See post 358 where Schnitte places the 3rd vote on him.

It appears RealityFan was going to see if he could get support to lynch Tyfo when he was not around (just like K7). Ironic how he came back now. Glad you are back Tyfo.

Only thing that bothers me is that would make both remaining ICs town and I think maybe last nights nightkill choice was very well done (too well done). I'm gonna reread some more. Maybe type up some pbp.

[evilevilmatt]

I thought he was most likely to be town out of all the remaining players.

[evilevilmatt]

...I'm probably not the only one to think this. Maybe I'm giving the mafia too much credit for last nights kill. That changes things. I think I need to start all over again.

[evilevilmatt]

Ok, I have been going over things a lot. Oddly enough I have found what I think to be town tells rather than the scum tells I was looking for. I have in my mind completely eliminated someone from the scum list. leaving 3. I highly suspect one other person is town but have some doubt. I want to go over things yet again to look for links between these two remaining people. (Yes that means I am no longer considering a Schitte and RF scum team).

I will probably not have time to type everything up until the weekend. I kept saying to myself the way people were lynched with out an actual normal hammering left us with not enough information but it just made it harder to find. Now I'm off to dig deeper again.

[evilevilmatt]

I was working on typing everything up and realized I am a fool. I'm drawing conclusions I shouldn't yet be making. Sorry for the dramatic run around. I dont think it was a complete waste of time though. I did find things that raise questions. Now I'll ask a few questions.

More importantly, Tyfo was one of the playery (together with RealityFan and hasdgfas) who could have hammered Xtoxm when it was L-1

Was there a reason I was left off this list? It may sound silly but I think it is important. The incomplete list was driving me insane so I have a few theories behind it. (I can be a little obsessive at times)

If we believe con, 50/50.

Or, from his point of view, 50/50.

What a subtle way to insinuate I'm scum!

How is that got anything remotely linked to insinuating you are scum?

What was this about? I dismissed it earlier, but I can't for the life of me remember why. Looks like an extreme overreaction, and I don't see how this is an accusation. Almost looks like you have information not available to the rest of us. But I'm not even sure what that would be.
- - -

Xtoxm, if you're town, I hate you immensely.

I found this to be geunine and a decent town tell. Mafia would not care. Could still be wrong but thats my interpration.

If I am your number one scum who is your number 1 townie (other than yourself of course) ?
- - -

I think Im pointing towards Tyfo right now. He has done little to contribute to the scumhunting in the past.

Irony.
--
Also been looking at voting patterns. May not be worth much but lets get it out there.

Xtoxm, Day 1 lynch - conqueso(T), killa seven(T), Schnitte(?), nhat(T), Xtoxm(T)
killa seven, Day 2 lynch - RealityFan(?), evilevilmatt(?), Schnitte(?)
(T) = Town , (?) = unconfirmed, (M) = Mafia

I put myself as a ? so everyone can use this chart, not that I don't know my own alignment. Notice how the only person who voted for both people lynches was Schnitte. Now on day one either 0 or 1 mafia members voted for Xtoxm. Might just indicate one or more mafia members were more lurky and did not get a vote in there.

[evilevilmatt]

...echo...
...echo...
...echo...

[evilevilmatt]

Looks like this game is dead too. Worth it to ask for prods?

[evilevilmatt]

Cop, eh?
unvote

Now this opinion may be a little late but here it is. Role fishing may indeed help anyone weather they be mafia, empowered townie, or vanilla townie, but who does it help the most? Clearly the mafia can do the most this information. Hence the common view that rolefishing is anti-town.

Now on to the future. Since we went out of the random voting stage to band wagoning someone who is now claiming cop, (unless theres a counterclaim) I guess we are back to random voting.

vote : etherealfrog
now you definitely are not forgotten.

This post seems off. It's after his claim so this doesn't matter, and his unvote comes after a few people unvoting because he claimed cop....

I was the second to remove my vote from conqueso. Is there something else that seems off here?

Is that a request for help with an OMGUS lynch of Henry Cow? Cause if its any other kind of lynch I could get behind it.

My money is on etherealfrog. would like to see more though.

What was up with this post? I want to know why you were so confident about a lynch on Etheral frog when he's barely posted, buy you were still pretty much behind a henry cow lynch too? Pretty much any type of lynch you could get.

Reality fan asked about the same post with his post 215. I answered about it in my 218. this also continued straight thought to 220. I think my intentions were made clear in those posts. Also Etheralfrog specifically had said he felt forgotten. I was hoping to get him to respond by voting for him and mentioning him a few times.

I don't like Matt's vote in post 371. Not because it was for killa seven, but because he was nervous on how it would look. He was still searching for anywhere he could get. Playing the field, if you will. Matt is currently at the top of my scumlist

It was 2 days away from the deadline. Killa seven was my best guess at the time but I didn't really feel comfortable having to make that vote before I was ready but I did not have a choice.

Yeah it looks like Matt was waiting to be able to say something about Nhat being gone.

Hasdgfas asked about it, I answered him right away.

I don't like how he says he's come to a conclusion, but won't tell it either.

If you really want my admitted flawed logic, here it is. I had thought the when Schitte had made that list of people who did not hammer xtoxm and left me off of the list it meant something. I thought it had meant he did not put me on the list because he had ruled me out as scum. (Mainly from Xtoxm stating I was town). The conclusion that I drew was that scum wouldn't doing things like ruling people out because they knew who was town already. The flaw here is that he could have simply just not been paying attention....needless to say that has proven to be a lot more likely.

- - -

Now about Hasdgfas, I made it a point to try separate his being courteous/ICish and his towniness. So I did not find his conversation with Conqueso on day one to be all that much of a town tell. Xtoxm has mentioned playing with him before and him being hard to read. I think it is because of the big brother/mentor vibe he gives off kinda just lures people into trusting him. I tried not to use that in determining his role. I did draw the same conclusion about him though for a reason I have stated before.

That being said, from my point of view it could be interpreted like you are trying to point at the same person as Hasdgfas to try to get him to help you lynch a townie. I don't think your points against me had much merit at all, except maybe the last one. Now that my flawed logic out there that should clear that up too.

[evilevilmatt]

This really doesn't do anything to make me feel any better about what I first said,

I'm not sure what else there was in your first statement to respond to. Maybe you could explain what feels off.

While you say it's for information, it's not information when you're looking for really any bandwagon. In other words, I don't think those were your true intentions at all, and that post felt like a fabrication.

Yeah, the bandwagons you are talking about were at most a whopping 2 votes. That's not a threat to get anyone lynched so there must have been some other intention....
Besides it was day one. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Matt, I didn't find your post terrible, until this ridiculous statement here. IH made some good points against you, and you didn't do a whole lot to refute them.

I'm trying to lay it all out there. I've explained my thought processes behind my statements. People either have to choose to believe me or not. I thought the points had little merit especially the one that was an exact repeat of what I had explained for Reality fan. Also the first statement which I am having trouble figuring out.

Could you explain why it looks to you like IH is pointing at me to try to lynch a townie?

Scum only need one townie to vote wrong and its game over.
You are most likely to be town in both our opinions (probably everyone else s too).
When IH came into the game you were already pointing at me and saying scum.
It seems opportunistic to stand next to you and point in the same direction (at me, a townie). It's the timing and the voting quickly even though we are at lylo.

[evilevilmatt]

How bout voting before people responded. Granted it's not your fault Schitte and Reality Fan are nowhere to be found but at lylo where every vote counts it seems inappropriate.

I will agree that this game is dragging. I'm just not willing to sacrifice a win for getting the game over fast. Maybe this will help.

mod : please prod Reality Fan and Schitte.

[evilevilmatt]

also @IC's how are dragging games where people disappear normally finished? No matter what happens I do have some other questions I'd like to ask after the game is finished.

[evilevilmatt]

In before the game ends. I think its Schitte and IH.

[evilevilmatt]

and that is 3 town loses. sorry guys. I guess I'm just not very good at this.

[evilevilmatt]

Wow I am terrible at this game.

[evilevilmatt]

Ok my question for IC's. The mafia game in general seems to reward lurking. How is this normally dealt with?

This game tormented me with doubting myself and made me want to try to type less to try to blend in more. Somewhere along the line I decided to lay it all out there and it seems to have backfired.

Did anything in this game that I did make any sense? Was I at point an asset to the town?

Not even sure if I want to sign up for another game lol.

[evilevilmatt]

What type of games should I read? Should I only read noob games for now? Or would you be able to recommend any really good games to read?

[evilevilmatt]

Thanks for the advice guys and in case I didn't say it yet, good game mafia.

I think I am going to read a bit before I jump into another game.

[evilevilmatt]

Happy Birthday RF and thanks for trying to make me feel better.

I realize now that hasdgfas is quite the crafty one. The first game on his suggested reading list almost mirrors this one. Winning when you are mafia 101 by hasdgfas. I'm gonna start reading the second one right now.

[evilevilmatt]

While its still open i have another question. On day one I got myself in trouble by trying to randomly bandwagon a second person after conqueso's wagon failed. I was thinking that it would cause someone else to be under pressure and spill some info. I didnt really see why this was bad.

I think I do now...almost ends up like a long painful massclaim which I am now coming to see is a bad thing in most cases (via the second game on the list.) It also kind of distracts from the other wagon. So unless everyone unvotes to start fresh a second random wagon really isn't possible (at least it's not a good idea). Is this right?