Newbie 624: Kodak City, Flour District (Game Over)

[Chelseafan]

/confirm

[Chelseafan]

Random vote:

Vote:seahawksfan2863

[Chelseafan]

Limited acess for the next day..the internet at home is not working:(

[Chelseafan]

Internet is back orking properly now


Cow said

This vote makes me more suspicious of you than I was before, not just because it's on me, but because after people called you out on how it's the townie thing to answer it, you decide to answer it and switch your vote, when mith didn't say you had to switch your vote when you answered the question. Why did you feel it necessary to throw in the vote there?

I don't see how him answering questions because people suggest it make suspicious. For me if he was avoiding the questions people wanted him to answer I'd be more worried.
As for him throwing a vote in there ,well he obviously felt you warranted it.
And while mith may not have said he had to change his vote him doing so is not suspicious for me,surely he can change it if he feels it warrants it.

Nabnab said

Open question to all players: What do you think of mith's aggressiveness so far? Do you share his opinion on the random voting stage?

Not sure if this was answered
In my opinion his agressiveness is useful. He's obviously an experienced player and maybe by playing agressively he can get info from not just the player his agression is directed towards but also how people react and interact with that particular player could be quite telling. Having never played with him before though does he usually play like this? Not that it matters but if he is then it's just a question of play style.
Least that's my take on it.

As for the random voting stage..yes I sort of thought it was some sort of unspoken phase here. Obviously people have different opinions on it, but the game has to start somewhere,so while it might not be desirable it is neccessary to spark discussion.

Sehawksfan said:

Personally, I think that scum would probably rather lay low and try not to get noticed and draw attention to themselves. But I'd like to wait and see everyone get involved first

Well I'm here now at any rate I find this interesting as you (along with me) seem to be one of the people thus far who hasn't contributed a lot to the discussion.
As for scum lying low, I don't think that's always the case lying low isn't a scum tell really,there are just certain players that play that way.

Also for the moment

unvote

.


* When quoting how do you put a person's name in the tags?*

[Chelseafan]

Personally I don't feel like cow's first post was all that scummy, however his reaction to the suspicion cast on him has me a little suspicious of him.

Besides that, it's a tough call. I'm not very good at reading people, and I'm even worse online. Mith hasn't done anything suspicious from what I see, he's just doing what an experienced player would do and try to get us involved. Acidmix and Squirrel both seem innocent to me, although perhaps a bit too aggressive with cow. I can't really see any scum in the high-activity members, so I'm thinking it's probably someone who hasn't posted much.

I don't really agree that people lurking are scum. It's more an issue of a playstyle I think.
I'm not finding anyone overly agressive either , this may be just their regular play.

While cow's defensiveness is not scummy in itself , it still didn't seem all that waranted at the time.

[Chelseafan]

Chelseafan, so who are you most suspicious of, taking in consideration of everyone's play style and the current discussion?

Robro and Hasdfagas would be my top two suspects at the moment.
The points on cow have been brought up though his answer lately do seem quite town like, but I found this post from Robro somewhat suspicious,

I read hasdgfas's post and can't really see anything wrong with it. He was mearly defending himself and I don't think that anything pointed toward OMGUS.

I don't want to be seen as defending him as it may seem scummy but this is directed mith as there is no real evidence behind his accusation.

I don't understand why you'd be worried about defending cow if he was town. If you think there is no case againt him then say it, but I don't like the disclaimer in the post it seems as if you're overly worries about not looking suspcious.
As for real evidence..it's day 1 there's not a huge lot to go on so real evidence is very hard to get. And really there's very little 100%'s in mafia anyway.

Well I don't really see how it matters if you like the question or not considering the question was never directed at you and clearly directed at Mith

Surely he has the right to give his opinions on the topic too
Sure it wasn't directly put to him but meh the more opinion the better.

[Chelseafan]

@mith: You're totally right. I'm no longer most suspicious of Acidmix,

Unvote

. But I'm still not sure what to do about cow, and I don't know if both fans agreeing with my cow + robro sentiment means:
1) I'm right and it speaks for itself
2) I'm wrong and good at convincing people
3) I'm wrong and and couple of scum are encouraging it (though I doubt this one due to lack of wagoning)

I am not agreeing for the sake of it. I just find Robro the most suspicious at this moment. It was more-so for the post I pointed out rather than his mis-use of the terms scummy and suspicious that made me fnd him scummy. It's his woriedness about looking suspicious that makes me more worried.

I'm not voting him now though as I'd like to hear a response from him on it.

@ Mith Why do you find a cow/Robro team unlikely?

@Seahawksfan apart from Robro and cow who else are you suspicious of?

[Chelseafan]

Chelseafan: Hunch, mostly. I don't think Robro would have defended cow in the manner he did if they were scum together. (It's possible, I just don't think it's likely.)

Also, let's say that,

hypothetically

, you and cow are scum together. You don't want to be seen as defending cow, in case he goes down. So pushing a different partner for cow, Robro, helps you tomorrow if cow is lynched, and you may also have the opportunity to try to push the wagon over to Robro so that he gets lynched today instead (at which point cow gets a little "well, you were obviously wrong about

that

pairing, can you leave me alone now kthx" action).

If it were just you (or one of the others) suggesting a cow/Robro pairing it probably wouldn't register. But given that NabNab and the fanclub are all suggesting this same pairing, I find it pretty likely that if cow is scum, his partner is trying to set Robro up to take the fall next.

Yea that makes sense. Thanks for explaining that, it's much clearer now.


I was just saying they're who I feel are the 2 most scummiest players. I guess their interaction seems to make it unlikely they're scum together as you say.
The fact everyone and their mother seems to be pushing for both of them( myself included being fair) is also a little weird.

[Chelseafan]

I agree with the earlier opinions about cow and Robro as scum. I'd bet one of them is, but not both together. They seem to be acting independently, and they're each showing very different kinds of behavior in this game. Not to say they can't both be scum, but it just doesn't seem like it to me.

Ok then let's say hypotethically one of them is scum then:

@Seahawksfan apart from Robro and cow who else are you suspicious of?

So if you think one of them is scum , who else is scummy to you and a likely partner for them?

[Chelseafan]

[quote="mith"sting that the fan club both immediately jumped on board with my "not both scum" theory, though.
[/quote]
The fan club?

Well Iasked why you thought that was the case and your argument made sense to me.

On another note:

Does anyone find NabakovNabakov suspicious?

Not particularly to be honest.
Out of the 3 experienced players he's the one I find most "town like".
Do you find him suspicious then?

[Chelseafan]

Chelseafan, I'm curious to know what in my argument you found compelling. My argument was basically:

1. It's a hunch.
2. I don't

think

he would defend cow like that - no reasoning, just gut feel.
3. I think

you

could be scum trying to frame him.

Well I said it made sense I didn't say there's no chance they're scum together.

1) True.
2) I found your reasoning quite solid, I was aware it was just a gut feel.
3) I'm in no way trying to frame anyone. My vote is not even on him. Is there any reason you think it's me particularly trying to frame him?

Was it my agreeing with you that led you to believe I'm trying to frame Robro or something else?I felt it was good logic after you explained it and said so, there was nothing more to it.

[Chelseafan]

Chelseafan, "framing" him without your vote being on him is a great scum tactic, so don't try to defend yourself by saying that your vote isn't on him, because it doesn't have to be.

But if I was mafia I'd want him to be lynched surely? My placing a lynch would make him somewhat closer to that?
Or is it that I'd want to try and avoid looking suspicious by placing a lynch on him, or is it that it's nothing to do with that

[Chelseafan]

Chelseafan, I'll ask again:

What

reasoning do you find "quite solid"?

I guess looking back there was no real reasoning given. You said it was just gut and then posted a hypothetical scenario on why you felt it unlikely.
Maybe reasoning was a bad wording choice by me too, I thought your basic explanation of why you thought they were not scum together made sense.
I hope that answers the question. So yeah there was no reasoning but I thought what you said about it made sense. However I can understand why me agreeing so quickly may look silly or scummy.

[Chelseafan]

Chelseafan: What is your read on mith, cow, and A_Squirrel?

Mith: Well he seems quite town to me at this moment in time. Sure his suspiciouns on me are mistaken but he doesn't have the luxury of seeing my role pm.

Cow I still think might be scum.

This game deserves better from me. More analysis on people hopefully tonight

I'm also not sure how I feel about this. Has his lack of effort meant his posts have been poor and he's townie and now feels he needs to right the wrongs. or has he felt he's played poorly as scum and is now trying to rescue the situation.

I'll re-read A_squirell now, I can't remember a lot before his recent posts in all honesty.

[Chelseafan]

*Apologies for the double post*

Eh just re-read A_Squirell.

Nothing scummy about him so far. Or well nothing that I noticed re-reading him.

[Chelseafan]

Just to let people know my internet acess for the next week or so will be limited.

[Chelseafan]

3. Of the three of you, Chelseafan has seemed the least interested in lynching cow - seahawks listed cow as his top suspect early in the discussion (and later added the third vote), you seemed to be giving both equal attention before giving your top three when I asked, but Chelsea originally gave Robro has more suspicious (here), and as far as I know still has that ordering.

Yea that's pretty correct I guess. I'd prefer a Robro lynch than cow.

You, in essence, strawmanned yourself and trapped Chelsea.

Also I'm not 100% sure what strawmanning means. Is it where you take a piece of someones case and make a big deal out of it to attack someone while ignoring other parts of?
So would strawmanning yourself mean you make your original argument look weak on purpose? Or do I have it wrong.

As for NabNab's not knowing about the amount of scum , or forgetting , i'm not really sure what to make of it honestly.

I guess with what I've said ;

Vote : Robro

[Chelseafan]

Who do you think is scum at the moment seems like a good place to start I guess.


Also regarding Awesome Pants putting someone at L-1, is this in of itself scummy if you think his reasons are justified or is it that you feel his reasoning is poor.
I guess that's for NabNab since he voted AP for it.

[Chelseafan]

You wanted the reasons I am currently voting Robro, here they is.

I read hasdgfas's post and can't really see anything wrong with it. He was mearly defending himself and I don't think that anything pointed toward OMGUS. I don't want to be seen as defending him as it may seem scummy but this is directed mith as there is no real evidence behind his accusation.

Vote mith

Seems to be defending cow , possible buddying up here in my opinion. Could be newb scum coming to their partners aid either.Don't agree with what he said regarding the OMGUS, so yea.
Feels the need to state he doesn't want to be seen as suspicious. Why? The disclaimer is unneccesary and to me scummy.

mith I get what you are saying now but I still don't think that as that suspicious. I found out what strawmanning was on the wiki and understand that cow was probably doing this but I don't consider it that scummy, just a bit suspicious. So I'll unvote.

Acidmix, basically the jist of what I was trying to say is that: I didn't consider what Cow did was that bad, I didn't really understand what mith was saying. I thought mith was severly overreacting to what Cow said so I voted him. Hope that this clears it up.

He doesn't consider cow scummy just suspicious, discounting that there pretty much mean the same in mafia to me, why? Not wanting to suspect your partner perhaps? Not wanting to give opinions on anyone else

I only defended him because I couldn't see what he was doing wrong. Thats it. I understood what mith said earlier therefore understood what cow did but I still don't find it that bad. At the moment I can't decide who I think is acting the scummiest but I am fairly sure that mith and Acidmix are town. Also, Does anyone have any questions directly to me?

Well I would have asked why he felt Acidmix and mith are town in hindsight I guess
I don't like the only defending him cos you didn't see what he was doing wrong line either, feels like a cop out to me.

Having said all this and posting my case, raider's recent posts have given me pretty good vibes about him, not sure if this is enough reason to discount my suspiciouns of robrom though, but still

unvote

for the moment.

[Chelseafan]

Cow needs to claim? I assume no one disagrees?

Or if so why?

[Chelseafan]

Hi, how are you?

*snip*

Why? (At least for me and Cederstrom)
What was so remarkable about raider's first post? I addressed the most glaring problem at the beginning of mine, but it was essentially a loose confederation of contextless comments entirely lacking analysis or interpertation. I realize this is a newbie game, but lets not encourage bad habits just because the habits at hand will lead to the hammer you want.

I have a 3 day weekend so how can I not be doing good! (Happy 4th everyone!)

The case or lack their off on you is minimal. I just had the bad vibes from your vote agianst AwesomePants for voting someone to L-1. At some point someone is going to be at L-1 and as day one is long I didnt see why it was a problem. I have no real reason to think you are scum other then that. Voting someone for placeing a vote seems scummy.

I'm sure NabNab would have/will answer(ed) this, but it wasn't the fact he put him at L-1 that he percieved as scummy, but the fact he felt it was poor reasoning for putting someone at L-1.

Anyway, I want to reread cow, probably will happen tomorrow sometime hopefully.

[Chelseafan]

I'm here.

So Hascow was a townie.

Just looking at the people on the wagon:

Seahawksfan - Can't remember him posting anytime near deadline not sure, needs a prod

Awesome Pants - Came in and put a vote on Hascow , need to look at his reasoning again. Did Hascow flipping town surprise you?

Mith - Seemed pretty sure hasdgfas was scum, a lot of his thought on who was scum came from who was hascow's scumpartner. How have your thoughts changed now hascow turned up town?

Cederstrom - eh, I probably need to re-read his reasoning. Mind is fuzzy.

So yea, I need a re-read of the thread anyway. Will be done in the next 2 days

[Chelseafan]

Whoops im back now. So cow was a townie...

can't say it surprises me a whole lot though, since it is early, and we're more prone to mistakes I guess

. Robro was my #2, and he's now my #1, though I do like the way raider is playing much better. I'm gonna need to go over the thread another time or two before I understand everything though.

If it wasn't that surprising, does that mean you expected him to turn up town?
Surely you wouldn't have voted him if this was the case?

[Chelseafan]

I don't particularly like lists.

But..why do you both find Mith least scummiest and NabNab most scummiest?
I found this slightly surprising.

Was there anything in particular that made you both think NabNab was mafia and mith was very townie?

[Chelseafan]

Both being Seahawksfan and Raider

[Chelseafan]

Prodded, will re-read the conversations between Mith and NabNab, and see what I think.

Should have a post up tomorrow at latest.

[Chelseafan]

pacman, I'd be the first to admit that my posts can be confusing (that's why I tried to be more clear/concise in my most recent long post), but where have I "[changed my] thoughts"?

Not confusing , more so they require a clear head to understand

I'm still procrastinating on the post I promised, should be up on monday/tuesady work is a bitch at the moment.

[Chelseafan]

Awesome Pants -seems scummy to both mith and NabNab. NabNab however brought a case agianst him. Mith-your case agianst him just seemed to try to distance yourself from him or atleast that was my thoughts.

Why isn't your vote on AP? You've voted mith from what I've read because you think he's most likely to be AP's scum partner..surely lynching AP to find out if he's scum would be the first step to help you on this? I'm not getting your mith vote if your trying to find out who AP's partner is.

I find your about turn from finding NabNab most suspicious to voting Mith scummy. Not sure what your reasoning is. You agreed and disagree with points made by both..yet then why the sudden change from Mith town, to vote Mith? I'm finding it hard to grasp.

Reading the NabNab Mith discussions I'm leaning pro-town on Mith at the moment.
Not as sure abotu NabNab but I though he was townie day 1.

[Chelseafan]

Chelseafan, I answered this before but in short if I find both scum does it matter which one I vote? Plus there was already one vote on mith just seemed to be the place to start. I really recomend you read me earlier posts. Mith and NabNab already asked me all what you said and I answered. This tells me you are just skimming the game.

You answered..you said you admitted you were flakey, I asked again because I was wondering were they your only reasons.

So you're not sure if NabNab or mith are scum? SO you look for partners..NabNab can't have any and Mith's is AP you think.
But..this logic doesn't really make sense to me that's why I questioned you again.

As you said you'd elaborate on what you agreed and disagreed with though, so I suppose you'll be explining a bit more your thought process which is kinda what I was after as even after clarification I wasn't really following.

[Chelseafan]

Not sure that first sentence makes sense up there^.

[Chelseafan]

K I'm here ..

I had no acess and asked to be replaced. So I got a bit of a shock when I recieved my prod and said I hadn;t be replaced. Will do a quick re-read tomorrow and cast a vote as I'm aware we have a dealine in like 2 days or something.

[Chelseafan]

K quickly re-read before deadline. Just gonna present my cases, no links or anything-sorry

Basically I'm leaning voting raider at the moment or Awesome Pants.

Couple of reasons, Robro's early play cant be discounted completely.

Didn't like his flip-flop at the start of day 2, where mith went from Most town to deserving a vote. I didn't think his reasong for this was that strong either.

His Mith looks most likely to be partners with Ap post was strange and bad logic in my opinion.

Decided to drop the mith case as Nab Nab unvoted. Why? If you thought he was scum your vote should have stayed where it was.

AP seems to be a compromise lynch at the moment.

On the other new players:
Gamma seems to have made a lot of false accusations, and I sometimes don't quite understand what's he trying to get across. No offense as obv English isn't his first language.

I don't see AP as a bad choice either, thought I'm not sure what to make of him finding himself the best lynch candidate.

Also suggested lynching Mith or NabNab as both can't be town.
This os not a good strategy really. Lynching someone because should be because you find them scummy.

Apologise for my absence and this hasty post, but a deadline is coming and I won't be on sunday.

[Chelseafan]

I've no objection to claiming now as we're at lylo.

Popcorn works for me, I'd like raider to go first as he was the one I was most suspicious of along with AP.

[Chelseafan]

Prodded, will read the thread waiting for the claim.

[Chelseafan]

I am vanilla townie.