Strategic

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Oh also, Luci, I want more elaboration in why you chose Hercule over Rust in the end here. You touched a bit on it in the TC thread, but I want more than just that. You're not wrong that taking Hercule was a better move for the reasons you stated most likely, and the jury very much liked Rust's game, largely because we knew what he was doing as we'd been part of it at various points. So in what ways did you think you couldn't separate your game from Rust's? Why was having him in the jury the best move for you personally at FTC?

Which, Hercule, brings me to another question, in other places it sounds like you're attributing being at the end being due to things you did and ways you outplayed Lucifer into giving him two not great options. But he could have just as easily sent you home instead of Rust. Why do you think any part of you being here is due to your own strategy and actions? Are you merely here because you knew your game was worse than Rust's and you were an easier battle for Lucifer to try to win? Why is you being here a positive for your game, and not a positive for Lucifer's? Or is it not that cut and dry?

So with Rust- We literally voted the same way every single round of merge except F4 and F3. And the F4 vote went the way he wanted it to. We had been allies with similar people too from merge onward. I felt like we were similar, but like you said- the jury seemed to like him a bit and I'd kind of picked up on that and I felt like I was very much on the bottom perceptually against him in an FTC. So I felt like he had a clear edge. He had also won a lot of challenges too. Like really it felt like the only difference from him in my game was some minor pre-merge issues and besides that he had me dominated. It's hard to know because everyone's different, but I also feel like in general your allies are more likely to vote for you on a jury and I'd worked with Rust all game basically, so I thought there was a slightly higher chance he'd vote for me than Hercule, who I didn't work as much with and that also played a role.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

For Lucifer, I just wanted to address this part of your speech:

Rounds 15 on were where I think I got more control in the game and put together a better performance. I thought Lennie going home in round 15 was important for me, because I knew we weren't on particularly good terms at the time and it set me up to go deep. The next two rounds the bigger challenge threats went- in particular, the round 16 vote would've been impossible without me beating Judy- I knew it was important to get them out if I was going to win immunity these last few rounds and fully guarantee my spot at the end. Obviously the one blemish here is round 18, but I was still safe during that important vote thanks to my challenge performance. I think during these rounds I exhibited a little bit more control over the game, my status as a low-profile player paid off and my devotion to my allies worked out. I think it shows some dynamism.

The thing is, after I left, I just assumed that it just went without saying that Judy or Penelope would go at 6, and if the remaining member of that pair was vulnerable at 5, they'd be voted out next. So like we've got 2 rounds at 6 and 5 where basically everyone in the game was on roughly the same page other than those being targeted, and then at 4 the one person you didn't want to go home went home. I'm not really seeing how this is particularly dynamic or exhibited more control over the game, aside from having immunity at 4 and 3. I'm not trying to grill you or anything here, but do you have a different view of those rounds?

That's fair- to me I specifically wanted to keep Penelope around over Judy for a few reasons though, but I get why it didn't matter a whole lot in the end. The first part of it was just loyalty to her, but I also thought she was slightly weaker in challenges. She was obviously very good, but I think a significant part of her reputation came from premerge where in my mind the challenges took a different skill set. Like one thing she was great at on the BAU was organizing the tribe and being like a team captain and in merge, like that's not really important when it's one person doing most challenges. So I felt like Judy was slightly better at challenges and I wanted her out first. Furthermore, if Penelope had won the challenge- I felt a little better about the prospects of an F5 vote and then F4 with her around than with Judy- but like obviously that ended up not being a factor, but it was something I considered. So to me, being able to control the way that vote went had some meaning, but I get why it kind of ended up being irrelevant based on what happened.

[Judy Hopps]

You were always in my final 3 plans my friend. My ideal final 3 was literally you and Poirot.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Hard to come up with good questions for either of you seeing as I was very close to both of you.

For Lucifer: Do you think you had control over your fate or were led on to certain points in the game, specifically with regards to myself and Rust? Ultimately you made it to the end where we didn't, but it's more a case of did you control us, or did we control you and were targeted for it?

For Poirot: You talked about long term strategy and that this was a contingency plan. We talked about it a little but I feel like I spent more time explaining my plans for us to make final 3 than you did. At what point was this your trajectory? Of if this is just where chips fell, what was your previous plan and how confident in it were you that it would have worked without intervention (ie. My immunity swivel and the Jake/Lennie votes)?

I don't think I was controlled. Starting with the Jake vote- I had told Grouch Cop like when the tribal started that I wanted Jake out, I just wasn't sure it was really feasible. Then Pikachu was who pitched that and I went along with it, but it was something I had wanted to do and if I recall right- you said you weren't swayed either way, but just voted Jake because the majority was there. Then with the Scruff vote- I think the people I initially talked to about it were Hercule, Lennie and Grouch if I remember right. It was once again something I felt like I went with out of a desire to benefit my game and not because I was being controlled. Honestly the fact that you left me out of the Grouch vote makes me think you probably didn't actually feel like you could control me.

I guess I really don't view the game in terms of one player having control over the other- I feel like there's give and take in the game and all relationships involved a bit of back and forth. But like no, I don't think I was controlled.

[Scruff McGruff]

A bit of a different question for both of you— who was your biggest obstacle to overcome in this game? Which person stood the greatest threat of taking you out, and what specific steps did you take to counteract that?

Also— what was your lowest point in this game strategically? What event(s) happened that made you feel a loss of control over the game or like you were at a disadvantage, and how did you bounce back from them?

[Hercule Poirot]

A bit of a different question for both of you— who was your biggest obstacle to overcome in this game? Which person stood the greatest threat of taking you out, and what specific steps did you take to counteract that?

Also— what was your lowest point in this game strategically? What event(s) happened that made you feel a loss of control over the game or like you were at a disadvantage, and how did you bounce back from them?

Zis ees actually a 'ard question, but I think ze correct answer ees actually you, M. McGruff. When you posted your posts in public, I was incredibly unnerved by zem because although I didn't agree with your reads on everything, the generally gist of what you were saying was definitely ze way zat I saw ze game. I did want SVU to be ze dominant group. I did want to use M. Peralta as a shield. Most of what you were saying was somewhat true. I think zat people should 'ave listened to you and done something to stop me from taking you out, if I'm honest, because without you going, M. Grouch would not 'ave gone ze following round. Although I did appreciate zat you inflated Mlle Hopps' target and reduced mine, merci beaucoup for zat.

You also 'ad close connections to ze people I was close to, M. Briscoe and M. Kennedy especially, and I did not think zat M. Kennedy would ever choose me over you, so in terms of maintaining my power and my control over ze game, you 'ad to go 'ome. You 'ad accurate reads. You 'ad influence. I think removing you when I did ees one of my better moves in ze game, and something zat I was advocating for from ze very start of zat round. You went a bit early in ze merge to be my biggest obstacle, but you were definitely ze person I saw with ze biggest potential to foil my plans.

My lowest point was during ze M. Briscoe round, not even after ze M. Briscoe round but while M. Briscoe was going, and eet felt like everything was falling apart around me. Especially when M. Kennedy was mad at me for 'aving said 'is name, eet felt like such a nightmare, and Mlle Hopps not being Immune and zen suddenly becoming Immune and 'aving to deal with ze consequences of zat was incredibly stressful. Zat round ees also some of ze most fun I 'ad in ze game, because I was fighting so 'ard without feeling like I was ze one in danger and throwing everything and anything at ze wall to see what stuck, but realizing zat I was going to lose my second close ally in a row was just absolutely terrible. Ze M. Peralta round wasn't great either, but losing M. Briscoe was ze moment where I felt ze most powerless in ze entire game.

I recovered almost immediately though. I fixed my relationship with M. Kennedy by 'aving a 'eart to 'eart, to ze point where 'e trusted me enough for F4 to go ze way zat eet did. Mlle Hopps and Mlle Garcia were still in ze game as 'uge targets, so eet was easy for me to reintegrate. I 'ad a strong bond with M. Cohle throughout ze whole ordeal, and M. Morningstar and I 'ad a great talk and worked past our issues with each other from ze previous two rounds, so I was able to plan my new route to ze end. And in a way eet might 'ave actually been a good thing, since M. Briscoe was peut-être a leetle bit of a blindspot zat I 'ad in ze game. Even though I knew 'e wouldn't take me to ze end if eet didn't benefit 'im, I really really wanted to believe and convince myself zat 'e would.

[Detective Pikachu]

What made your #Bigmoves stand out from the others

[Lucifer Morningstar]

A bit of a different question for both of you— who was your biggest obstacle to overcome in this game? Which person stood the greatest threat of taking you out, and what specific steps did you take to counteract that?

Also— what was your lowest point in this game strategically? What event(s) happened that made you feel a loss of control over the game or like you were at a disadvantage, and how did you bounce back from them?

I felt like Jake was a pretty big threat to me in the game. From my point of view, he was the primary person who wanted me out during the early rounds of merge. I think there were some minor things and a few really important things I did to counteract that. Both the Nick vote and Scruff vote were both crucial ways I tried to counteract his control over the game, because I thought they were both close to him and would help limit and reduce his influence. I also tried really hard to make sure I was on good terms with Judy, because I thought she had an important amount of sway and could prevent Jake from targeting me. I also targeted Jake on multiple occasions to remove him from the game because of the threat he posed and was able to vote him out eventually.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

What made your #Bigmoves stand out from the others

I think the F8, F7 and F6 votes changed the entire trajectory of the game. The game was largely divided into the SVU+Jake vs the BAU and losing Grouch was a massive blow to us. It put us clearly on the wrong side of the numbers and with a 5-3 majority set the SVU+Jake group up with a pretty easy path to eliminate us. Being able to take out Jake and two SVU members in the following tribal councils really flipped the game on its head. It was a crucial move for me/Rust/Penelope (Judy obviously played a big role too) and without that my path to the end would've been non-existent or at the very least, much more difficult. Without that sequence of votes, I think the game looks entirely different and it's much more likely that Hercule is here with one of Leon/Lennie/Jake like he wanted and I'm on the jury right now.

[Hercule Poirot]

What made your #Bigmoves stand out from the others

My two biggest moves, and in fact ze two biggest moves by anyone zis game à mon avis, were eliminating M. Grouch at F9 and eliminating M. Kennedy at F4.

I think ze M. Grouch vote permanently shaped ze landscape of ze game into one zat was extremely advantageous pour moi. Eet secured my position on a side with people lined up to go 'ome before me. Even though ze next few votes did not go my way, eet literally did not matter for me because ze M. Grouch move was so strong zat eet put me in a position to never receive a vote until ze F5. I think zis was ze defining move of ze season, and I proactively played a 'uge role in making eet 'appen.

Ze M. Kennedy vote ees a 'uge move because I 'ad to convince someone to make a move zat would eliminate zem from ze game, no easy feat eetself, and also prevent M. Morningstar from realizing what was 'appening, also difficile. Without eet, I would not be sitting 'ere maintenant, so eet absolutely was a necessary move, and I pulled eet off successfully.

I think one thing zat really sets my two biggest moves apart from ze rest of ze moves in ze game ees ze fact zat I 'ad a 'uge amount of agency in 'ow zey appened, and I also was ze main person (or with M. Grouch one of ze main people) be'ind both of zem. I also think I was probably ze person who benefited ze most from both of zem.

M. Morningstar's big moves definitely were good for 'im, but I don't think 'e was ze main person be'ind any of zem. Ze F8 and F7 were mostly Mlle Hopps' doing, and ze F6 honestly wasn't a big move, eet was maintaining ze status quo in ze game. Doing anything other zan voting out Mlle Hopps or Mlle Garcia zat round would 'ave been a big move. Zat doesn't mean eet wasn't a good move for 'im to get out Mlle Hopps first, 'owever, and I 'ave already given 'im credit for zat.

[Rust Cohle]

A question for both finalists.

The ability to manipulate other players is crucial, as alluded to in many answers thus far.  Can you identify any moments in the game where you were the manipulated party?

A statement for Hercule Poirot.

A magnificently eloquent speech, as expected.  I must correct one assertion. If I won final immunity I would have voted you out with no hesitation.

[Hercule Poirot]

Hahahaha mon ami, I think zat zere ees a chance zat you manipulated me a leetle into thinking zat zere was a chance you might take me if you won! If I 'ad won and 'ad to vote you out, I would 'ave felt legitimately guilty about eet, but realistically, like I said somewhere else, I would 'ave done eet aussi. I never thought zere was a chance at all in any universe prior to being in ze final three with you zat you took me, so I was a bit fou thinking zat things changed for you. But I would 'ave understood, naturellement. I think ze Jury 'as been extremely clear zat you and M. Morningstar sitting in ze end together would 'ave been a guaranteed win for you, so 'ow could you not take zat? Eet was not dans ton caractère. You 'ave played optimally from ze start, and I should 'ave expected no less.

As for other moments of manipulation, I was probably manipulated a bit by M. Briscoe. I was certainly planning to take 'im to F4 at least, and zen from 4 on I think eet becomes an individual game, and you 'ave to expect people to do what ees best for zem. I don't know what M. Briscoe's plans for me were, but if 'e was making explicit F3 deals zat did not include me, zen eet seems like 'e 'ad a more clearly crystallized plan to cut me eventually whereas pour moi, if I 'ad ze choice I knew zat I would always do what I thought was optimal, but emotionally I really wanted to set eet up so zat taking 'im was ze optimal choice. I don't know ze full extent of 'is plans, though. I'll be curious to talk more about eet with 'im after ze game. Similar to you, I knew ze type of person 'e was, and zat 'e would always 'ave to play to win, but I really really wanted us to find a way to make eet regardless.

And lastly, I do think I was manipulated a leetle bit by M. Kennedy, though I'm not sure ze full extent of zis, and I can't say zat I ever 100% trusted 'im. I could definitely feel when we were growing more distant at some points and zen when we would reconnect and get back together, but at ze F4 when 'e told me zat 'e was voting me out, 'e revealed zat at one point 'is plan was to take out all of SVU, which I certainly never thought 'e 'ad as a clearly formed plan. Eet was just so 'ard with M. Kennedy to know where I fell on 'is pecking order, because 'e talked to me like an extremely close ally but I got ze sense zat 'e talked to everyone zat way, but emotionally I wanted to believe eet and sometimes I probably did, in spite of intellectually knowing M. Kennedy's personality and 'ow 'e was playing ze game. I'm still not sure. I think 'e probably actually was loyal to me at points and zen wavered, but je ne sais pas.

Zere ees a recurring theme 'ere. I knew who you all were as people and as players. I should 'ave taken my own advice and used my leetle grey cells instead of my 'eart, but when you are in ze game and you feel zat emotional connection, eet ees difficile.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

A question for both finalists.

The ability to manipulate other players is crucial, as alluded to in many answers thus far.  Can you identify any moments in the game where you were the manipulated party?

A statement for Hercule Poirot.

A magnificently eloquent speech, as expected.  I must correct one assertion. If I won final immunity I would have voted you out with no hesitation.

I'd say I was manipulated by Leon at F4. I thought I had more leverage in that situation and could've gotten him to vote with me and instead he flipped.

I also think I was manipulated by Judy at F9. I was pretty hopeful I could count on her to vote Jake out in that situation and instead Grouch went.

[Lennie Briscoe]

As for other moments of manipulation, I was probably manipulated a bit by M. Briscoe. I was certainly planning to take 'im to F4 at least, and zen from 4 on I think eet becomes an individual game, and you 'ave to expect people to do what ees best for zem. I don't know what M. Briscoe's plans for me were, but if 'e was making explicit F3 deals zat did not include me, zen eet seems like 'e 'ad a more clearly crystallized plan to cut me eventually whereas pour moi, if I 'ad ze choice I knew zat I would always do what I thought was optimal, but emotionally I really wanted to set eet up so zat taking 'im was ze optimal choice. I don't know ze full extent of 'is plans, though. I'll be curious to talk more about eet with 'im after ze game. Similar to you, I knew ze type of person 'e was, and zat 'e would always 'ave to play to win, but I really really wanted us to find a way to make eet regardless.

FWIW, I definitely wanted to be at F4 with you as well, but it was clear when we talked about those long-term plans that we were both trying to set up a situation where we'd each have the best chances of making it to the end and winning, and frankly I didn't think I could beat you. We played similar games except you played way way better. I knew you were sincere in wanting to sit next to me, but JT is always going to be happy sitting next to Stephen, you know? Anyway, I'm eager to talk about this when all is said and done, it was a real joy playing this game with you.

[Hercule Poirot]

As for other moments of manipulation, I was probably manipulated a bit by M. Briscoe. I was certainly planning to take 'im to F4 at least, and zen from 4 on I think eet becomes an individual game, and you 'ave to expect people to do what ees best for zem. I don't know what M. Briscoe's plans for me were, but if 'e was making explicit F3 deals zat did not include me, zen eet seems like 'e 'ad a more clearly crystallized plan to cut me eventually whereas pour moi, if I 'ad ze choice I knew zat I would always do what I thought was optimal, but emotionally I really wanted to set eet up so zat taking 'im was ze optimal choice. I don't know ze full extent of 'is plans, though. I'll be curious to talk more about eet with 'im after ze game. Similar to you, I knew ze type of person 'e was, and zat 'e would always 'ave to play to win, but I really really wanted us to find a way to make eet regardless.

FWIW, I definitely wanted to be at F4 with you as well, but it was clear when we talked about those long-term plans that we were both trying to set up a situation where we'd each have the best chances of making it to the end and winning, and frankly I didn't think I could beat you. We played similar games except you played way way better. I knew you were sincere in wanting to sit next to me, but JT is always going to be happy sitting next to Stephen, you know? Anyway, I'm eager to talk about this when all is said and done, it was a real joy playing this game with you.

I understand. mon ami. I remember at one point, I might be misremembering, but you said zat you were open to ze idea of you, me, M. Kennedy, and M. Peralta being ze final four and I immediately shot eet down. I wasn't stupide, mon ami. I knew who you would want gone fourth if zat was ze final four. So ze only way I could take you down ze stretch was if I forced zere to be someone zere who you found even more threatening zan me, which maybe I could 'ave accomplished, but with 'indsight, maybe for ze best for my sake zat you got taken out when you did.

Though I will say zat I think you are selling yourself a bit short. I don't think your odds against me were as terrible as you think, but maybe I'm just biased. You've been on ze Jury so you probably 'ave a better read on what ze Jury thought in zat situation zan I do.