Manipulation, Bleed, Player-Characters, and the Purpose of Mafia

[JacksonVirgo]

ego

[JacksonVirgo]

Gaslighting is a manipulation method and it’s a game of deceit and manipulation, banning it seems like a slippery slope

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m quite ignorant for the majority of this, planning to properly read the conversation in the other thread after work tonight

[JacksonVirgo]

That’s arguably even worse, if you see something as gaslighting in the context of mafia calling it out being disallowed feels goofy so I doubt that’s the whole thing.

If it’s out of the context of a game, being banned/warned for vocalising issues seems equally problematic. If people do it in a toxic way that’s different but that goes for everything.

I feel I’m not understanding properly, I’ll read up before commenting more

[JacksonVirgo]

Making light of abuse and using the word are totally different things. It’s a descriptive term for an action

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah if those are the examples that encompasses gaslighting here, banning it is… a decision

[JacksonVirgo]

I see, I don’t understand banning words that aren’t slurs or slur-adjacent. It’s a descriptive term for one particular manipulative behaviour. If I get called out for gaslighting somebody in the context of a game I should assume they believe I am gaslighting them or they’re trying to manipulate me or others about me. If anybody is saying it in a way that incites toxicity or referring in a way that insinuates the person is actually abusive that should be brought to the mods regardless and no word ban would stop somebody from doing that, just makes it harder for the good ppl to articulate themselves and makes a transition to the site harder from other communities (the L word I still am catching myself almost saying for instance)

[JacksonVirgo]

I feel it’s incredibly awkward to want a word substitute for it meaning essentially, if not exactly, the same thing. Forcing language is not really something I’m all that okay with

[JacksonVirgo]

It should be allowed, period

If you are backed into a corner, and your only way out is the chance to make town distrust the current reality or lose. You’re asking them to openwolf/gamethrow/give up if they can’t then try their best to throw a wrench in what is considered true (caught in a fake claim etc).

It is incredibly unreasonable imo to ban or dissuade such plays

[JacksonVirgo]

And if it’s allowed, calling the behaviour as it is should also be allowed without requiring people use softer words for the same thing

[JacksonVirgo]

Calling people abusive through it is a different matter, this is a non-issue as I currently see it but open my eyes to my own ignorance if anybody thinks I am ignorant here

[JacksonVirgo]

You have all the power to use the words you want to, I don’t recall ever using it myself but ruling it as an illegal word should never be the move

[JacksonVirgo]

what i am saying is that to say someone is gaslighting is to say someone is being abusive given its connotations

and i don't think people should be able to call people abusive if the only thing that is happening is playing the game, that just breaks into the realm of out of game influence and is horrible for game integrity

obviously if there is actually abuse happening in a mafia game it's a different story but i think that's pretty rare and far between at least in current site culture

It should be obvious that it shouldn’t be construed as abusive when it’s in the context of mafia, I fail to see why players have to be restricted in the words they can use because people are unable to realise the word has its seperate meaning in the context of the game.

By all means make and use a softer term for it, but it shouldn’t be warned against, let alone enforced.

[JacksonVirgo]

This is me being lenient about it having connotations with being abusive, which I feel is unfair to consider it directly linked to it

[JacksonVirgo]

If we are over-moderating here and the word has truly drifted so significantly it is a general use term, the worst result is users need to utilize a different word to describe mafia game manipulation and there are a few awkward phrasings until we settle on a word. If we were to under-moderate here and allow the term to apply to normal mafia play and the term remains significantly tied to abusive to enough people, the worst result is people are subject to accusations they are engaging in a manipulative and abusive act to which they have no retort or counter until, at best, after the game and even then to only have an academic discussion of whether gaslighting appropriately describes mafia play.

Saying it’s under-moderating to consider it a descriptive term is literally insane to me I’m going to be honest. I don’t personally see the link except for the fact that it’s more commonly used to refer to an abusive relationship just because they’re more common which is hardly reason to outright warn or ban for using the word

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m not arguing that, I’m arguing it’s simple a descriptive term for the type of manipulation that its referring to even if that’s just in the context of mafia, which from my experience it is not