Mini 937 - Mafia on Death Row OVER

[Zodiark13]

Sorry for disappearing all, busy weekend and such.

Im gunna go ahead and

Unvote

. SAMP has handled himself rather well before my attacks, and, apart from his game of redirection, hasn't done much anything bad. Plus, I realised that he can't be held accountable for the scummy people that jump on his wagon.

The people who did, however, can. Their reasons were non-existent at best, and scummy at worst. Since the vote, they have been absent, apart from the occasional post, mostly either insults or promises of content that never came.

Since his unvote seemed rather odd to me, with as little reason as the initial vote, I'm gunna

Vote: MafiaSSK

.

For flawed at best and none at worst reasons for jumping on the GD wagon, for his equally flawed/none reasons for unvoting, and for lurking whilst promising content.

[Zodiark13]

EBWOP:

SAMP has handled himself rather well

after

my attacks,

[MafiaSSK]

I will start by defending myself then move on to using a countercase against someone on the wagon.

GD's wagon was interesting. I feel that the grounds for it were completely ridiculous, but at the same time, it did help to create some genuine discussion. I find the later joins to the bandwagon the most interesting. SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly to be honest, if I were to join GD's bandwagon, I would have joined it whole-heartedly to get the most information possible, whether I truly believed in the premise or not.

Tell me, how were the grounds ridiculous? Have you tried playing mafia where no one posts any evidence? It becomes a serious of essentially random votes and random lynches. We can do better than that. We have to discourage is as much as possible. Hence, why I voted GD. When he said, and we should trust what he said, that he would only do it that once I unvoted. However, I unvoted with the clause that if he did it again I would have to vote him. This adds non-official pressure to the votee. The fact that you would have joined it whole heartedly is scumm in and of itself.It was right after RVS where we should not have been gathering information from GD.

@GreenDude: By posting random theories and providing no evidence along with them you are being anti town. So even if you are town it will help town to do away with you.

Easy hop on for one

See above. It was not me truly hopping on. Yes, I was agreeing with the wagon and the reasons for the wagon. So I voted him. This in fact has probably helped the town more than it has hurt it which is the opposite definition of scummy. For if I hadn't helped put pressure on GD, he would most likely continue posting these theories with no backup evidence. Cross apply my defense above for the rest.

for two:

If you do it again though you have my vote.Unvote

So because GD posted a theory, not theories, not only does he become not anti-town, but all of a sudden his is town to the point it will not help town to do away with him? And then the threat of putting the vote on him again if he did it again, just does not sit well with me.

Alright, I understand the resoning for this. You believe theories are not scummy. See first defense for that. He is still anti-town but he will not continue being more anti-town without being voted by at least me. The theory is the truly scummy part about what GD did but since he said he wouldn't do it we have to trust him.

@MafiaSSK –

I asked for input on two issues from you back at 179. I’ll restate the questions for you here –

After seeing this I went back and checked. You are correct. I took the top of the page summary at its face without seeing that quick unvotes had happened. My mistake. I'm not thrilled with MafiaSSK's response because he could have done the exact same thing I did. Instead he immediately retracted his vote. Sits with me as a fairly big backtrack, even with his 'early morning statement' retraction.

@MafiaSK -

Why didn't you go on the offensive and question me about it, given you were the one I questioned.

The town players can only be distracted if they allow themselves to be.

Do you think that the playerbase here is that weak in general

?

I’ve bolded for emphasis.

For Q1: I didnt go on the offensive because it did not seem to be logically strategical.Just because you did it does not mean I have had to do it as well.
For Q2:Yes, every player base is weak. You can easily distract any set of townies if you allow such distractions to continue. Plus, it is a game people do not have a serious concentration on it. If they have a single distraction that can be proven good, then they'll switch topics in to it.

You’ve been non-committal in your actions; flip flopping whenever you feel the smallest amount of resistance. I don’t like the way your vote came and went on Greendude. I don’t like that you didn’t bother to call me on my mistake. You may be ducking direct questions about your play.

A. I have not been non-commital in my actions as I have shown in my past few defenses.
B.I wasn't flip flopping if I was it was for a gorram good reason. Cross-apply my reason from defense 1 and 2.
C.Of course I didn't bother to question your play. It was not strategical to do so.
D.I am not ducking questions as I did not have time to answer these before.

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

This is a sign for a scum awaiting an easy lynch. He thinks because I was gone for a day that he could convince you all that I am scum. So he attempts to basically ridicule anyone who is not on the wagon at the time. This can not be to provoke discussion as discussion is already at a pretty high rate by now. This post is noted until I finish defending myself.

sure

My Milked Eek
Pickemgenius
and MafiaSSK

Alright. I did join the wagon late. It was simply the time that I got on Mafiascum. There was nothing I could do for when to get on the wagon.

Since his unvote seemed rather odd to me, with as little reason as the initial vote, I'm gunna
Vote: MafiaSSK.

For flawed at best and none at worst reasons for jumping on the GD wagon, for his equally flawed/none reasons for unvoting, and for lurking whilst promising content.

1. "My unvote being odd and with little reason as initial vote". See first two defenses. There are plenty of reasons for my vote and unvote.
2. Explain how my reasons are flawed for voting and unvoting.
3. How am I lurking? I never posted once on mafiascum for one single day. This is not lurking and I had never promised content until yesterday. I am followiing up on this today. I consider this to be in the morning.

Now back to Damon_Gant.
His attack on mine was the first and it was terrible. As "SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly" was the only reason why he found it scummy and that he would stay on the wagon for a much information as possible. One, he never explained why my hopping of ship was feeble. And 2, just because he would do something makes him think that all town would do that and anyone who wouldn't isn't town. This never even considers the fact of it not being a town motive. Do research if you're going to call it a town tell. Don't just call it a town tell because you did it. Then called it strong enough that he could vote me.
Secondly he seems to be buddying with wolframhart. He automatically agreed with wolf's attack without any reason of his own. He found this to be a strong case he could latch on to. When wolf disappears, Damon then believes it to be possible that he can easily push for a SSK lynch. See

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

This is a sign for a scum awaiting an easy lynch. He thinks because I was[ gone for a day that he could convince you all that I am scum. So he attempts to basically ridicule anyone who is not on the wagon at the time. This can not be to provoke discussion as discussion is already at a pretty high rate by now.

Third he is being tunnel-visioned. He has only focused on me this entire game. The only exception to this was his random vote on MME. However from his ISO post 7 he has voted me. As a matter of fact he voted me for voting SAMP for the L2. In where I was attempting to provoke discussion. The very same thing that Damon Gant was portraying but not doing with asking everyone why I hadn't been voted. Even when I defended myself with a "acceptable reason" he never unvoted. Then the GD wagon began and he found more and more fail reasons to vote me.
For all of these reasons, I

Vote Demon_Gant

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote Count A000577

MafiaSSK (4) [Damon_Gant, wolframnhart, MagnaofIllusion, Zodiark13]
GreenDude (3) [BrokenBlueprints, My Milked Eek, pickemgenius]
pickemgenius (1) [easjo682]
easjo682 (1) [DeathSauce]
Damon_Gant (1) [MafiaSSK]
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! (0) []
My Milked Eek (0) []
wolframnhart (0) []
MagnaofIllusion (0) []
BrokenBlueprints (0) []
DeathSauce (0) []
Zodiark13 (0) []

Not voting (2) [Greendude, Super Awesome Mega Pimp!]

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is currently March 29 at 3am EST (8am GMT).

BrokenBlueprints has failed to post in time. Looking for a replcement now.

[Damon_Gant]

I will start by defending myself then move on to using a countercase against someone on the wagon.

GD's wagon was interesting. I feel that the grounds for it were completely ridiculous, but at the same time, it did help to create some genuine discussion. I find the later joins to the bandwagon the most interesting. SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly to be honest, if I were to join GD's bandwagon, I would have joined it whole-heartedly to get the most information possible, whether I truly believed in the premise or not.

Tell me, how were the grounds ridiculous? Have you tried playing mafia where no one posts any evidence? It becomes a serious of essentially random votes and random lynches. We can do better than that. We have to discourage is as much as possible. Hence, why I voted GD. When he said, and we should trust what he said, that he would only do it that once I unvoted. However, I unvoted with the clause that if he did it again I would have to vote him. This adds non-official pressure to the votee. The fact that you would have joined it whole heartedly is scumm in and of itself.It was right after RVS where we should not have been gathering information from GD.

When he made his theory without evidence though, it was pretty much still the RVS, and he was just trying to drum up conversation. He succeeded. It is not scummy that I would have joined the wagon whole-heartedly, my point was that if I were to join such a baseless wagon (which I didn't), I would at least try and get something out of it.

I agree that GD can't continue to post theories with no evidence, but I feel quite sure that that was something that was only done because there was very little real evidence to go off at that stage. Still don't fully understand the motives of your unvote.

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

This is a sign for a scum awaiting an easy lynch. He thinks because I was gone for a day that he could convince you all that I am scum. So he attempts to basically ridicule anyone who is not on the wagon at the time. This can not be to provoke discussion as discussion is already at a pretty high rate by now. This post is noted until I finish defending myself.

I was not trying to ridicule anyone. In fact, rather the opposite, I was trying to look at your wagon from the side of someone who doesn't believe in it, as you had not yet responded to it.

Now back to Damon_Gant.
His attack on mine was the first and it was terrible. As "SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly" was the only reason why he found it scummy and that he would stay on the wagon for a much information as possible. One, he never explained why my hopping of ship was feeble. And 2, just because he would do something makes him think that all town would do that and anyone who wouldn't isn't town. This never even considers the fact of it not being a town motive. Do research if you're going to call it a town tell. Don't just call it a town tell because you did it. Then called it strong enough that he could vote me.
Secondly he seems to be buddying with wolframhart. He automatically agreed with wolf's attack without any reason of his own. He found this to be a strong case he could latch on to. When wolf disappears, Damon then believes it to be possible that he can easily push for a SSK lynch. See

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

This is a sign for a scum awaiting an easy lynch. He thinks because I was[ gone for a day that he could convince you all that I am scum. So he attempts to basically ridicule anyone who is not on the wagon at the time. This can not be to provoke discussion as discussion is already at a pretty high rate by now.

Third he is being tunnel-visioned. He has only focused on me this entire game. The only exception to this was his random vote on MME. However from his ISO post 7 he has voted me. As a matter of fact he voted me for voting SAMP for the L2. In where I was attempting to provoke discussion. The very same thing that Damon Gant was portraying but not doing with asking everyone why I hadn't been voted. Even when I defended myself with a "acceptable reason" he never unvoted. Then the GD wagon began and he found more and more fail reasons to vote me.
For all of these reasons, I

Vote Demon_Gant

My original reasoning for the vote on you wasn't very strong I admit. The reason why it may seem like I'm being tunnel-visioned is because the whole game I've found your posts to be iffy, and you've just seemed leaps and bounds more scummy than anyone else in this game to me.

I've tried really hard to describe why you hopping off the ship was feeble, I basically believe that because of the way you only unvoted because it was a singular offense.

I don't see how I'm buddying with Wolf, I believe I've only mentioned him in one post. Am I not allowed to compliment other people's posts when they're right in my opinion.

I'm pleased that you've made this post though, you've given me a bit more to go off on you...but it hasn't helped my read much if I'm honest. You've attacked your strongest attacker, but I'm not going to hold that against you because sometimes that's a valid thing to do. To be honest, like earlier, I just want other opinions because I feel like I'm reading your posts with negative thoughts in my mind to begin with, and it would be best to read them in an unbiased way.

For now, I'm happy to keep my vote on you.

P.S. I'd like to know why there's still wind in the GD wagon, I really am not seeing it. I want to take a further look at the case on easjo and see what I think about that.

P.P.S. SSK, how dare you use subliminal messaging...Demon_Gant!

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

P.S. I'd like to know why there's still wind in the GD wagon, I really am not seeing it.

None of the people still voting him (BBP, MME, PEG) have posted anything meaningful in the past few days. BBP is getting replaced but I would like to know what the other two think now.

[GreenDude]

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it

The way I see this is that you are saying that those not on the wagon are wrong and have to explain themselves. But it can also been seen as asking what those not on the wagon think of MafiaSSK. I asume Damon_Gant meant the latter. But MafiaSSK have obviously seen it as the former.

I basically believe that because of the way you only unvoted because it was a singular offense.

MafiaSSK did unvote saying because it was a singular offense but saying that under the condition I no longer post random theories, I won't be anti-town which was the reason MafiaSSK voted me.

I just want other opinions because I feel like I'm reading your posts with negative thoughts in my mind to begin with, and it would be best to read them in an unbiased way.

My opinion is that MafiaSSK has explained well all the questions thrown.

[DeathSauce]

The lack of easjo votes depresses me. Don't you guys hate scum?

There are a lot of people in this game making statements like "such-and-such is interesting" or "I noticed blah blah blah". Here's a tip, tell us WHY you think its interesting, maybe I'll agree with you!

Maybe you should follow your own advice

I guess I'm still waiting to see if anyone else notices easjo's hypocrisy or if we have all just decided to forget about it.

[Damon_Gant]

The lack of easjo votes depresses me. Don't you guys hate scum?

There are a lot of people in this game making statements like "such-and-such is interesting" or "I noticed blah blah blah". Here's a tip, tell us WHY you think its interesting, maybe I'll agree with you!

Maybe you should follow your own advice

I guess I'm still waiting to see if anyone else notices easjo's hypocrisy or if we have all just decided to forget about it.

I've just read up easjo. His behaviour is definitely anti-town, but I don't really think it's scummy. It would be nice if he were to address his anti-townness though.

[easjo682]

The lack of easjo votes depresses me. Don't you guys hate scum?

There are a lot of people in this game making statements like "such-and-such is interesting" or "I noticed blah blah blah". Here's a tip, tell us WHY you think its interesting, maybe I'll agree with you!

Maybe you should follow your own advice

I guess I'm still waiting to see if anyone else notices easjo's hypocrisy or if we have all just decided to forget about it.

Why am I a Hypocrite?

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

I guess I'm still waiting to see if anyone else notices easjo's hypocrisy or if we have all just decided to forget about it.

Apparently the latter. Why not post a case?

[pickemgenius]

ok ima post some thoughts later today since ive been sick and watching March Madness the last 4 days(sick past 2)

[Zodiark13]

Please do. Until then,

FoS: DeathSauce

. If the case is acceptable, then I will remove the FoS.

[quote="MafiaSSK']
For all of these reasons, I Vote Demon_Gant [/quote]
Anyone else think this vote is OMGUS?

1. "My unvote being odd and with little reason as initial vote". See first two defenses. There are plenty of reasons for my vote and unvote.
2. Explain how my reasons are flawed for voting and unvoting.
3. How am I lurking? I never posted once on mafiascum for one single day. This is not lurking and I had never promised content until yesterday. I am followiing up on this today. I consider this to be in the morning.

1. What, that rushed, illegible excuse of a defence, that, I suspect, may be a justification for voting GD.
2. Firstly, there is only one for each, yet you say in plural tone like your reasons are many. Secondly, you voted for GD for putting out theories, right after he defended himself on that point, then you unvoted when he promised to be a good boy and not do it again.
3. How?
Point 1; Since your unvote on Wednesday, you have posted three times.
Point 2; As of this post, apart from Borken_Blueprints, who is getting replaced, DeathSauce has the lowest post count. You have one post more than him.
Point 3; Your wall-of-text post on 227 tries to create the impression that you aren't lurking. Only people who ARE lurking need to look like their not.
Thus, you are lurking, and saying you're not won't change that.

Secondly he seems to be buddying with wolframhart. He automatically agreed with wolf's attack without any reason of his own. He found this to be a strong case he could latch on to.

What, and you didn't 'automatically agree' with SAMP's attack of GD? From my point of view, your case IS a good case.

Third he is being tunnel-visioned. He has only focused on me this entire game. The only exception to this was his random vote on MME. However from his ISO post 7 he has voted me.

You say this like we are halfway through Day 4. Serious D1 discussion started barely a week or so ago. If you want him to target someone else, present a reason, with evidence, as to why you aren't a good lynch.

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

This is a sign for a scum awaiting an easy lynch. He thinks because I was gone for a day that he could convince you all that I am scum. So he attempts to basically ridicule anyone who is not on the wagon at the time. This can not be to provoke discussion as discussion is already at a pretty high rate by now. This post is noted until I finish defending myself.

Way to twist Damons words.

Where is everyone? We need more votes on this scum.

[Zodiark13]

Gah, ninja'd

ok ima post some thoughts later today since ive been sick and watching March Madness the last 4 days(sick past 2)

If you were sick and watching tv at home, you obviously had time to post. Why did you not?

Off topic, what is March Madness?

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote Count A000577

MafiaSSK (4) [Damon_Gant, wolframnhart, MagnaofIllusion, Zodiark13]
GreenDude (3) [BrokenBlueprints, My Milked Eek, pickemgenius]
pickemgenius (1) [easjo682]
easjo682 (1) [DeathSauce]
Damon_Gant (1) [MafiaSSK]
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! (0) []
My Milked Eek (0) []
wolframnhart (0) []
MagnaofIllusion (0) []
BrokenBlueprints (0) []
DeathSauce (0) []
Zodiark13 (0) []

Not voting (2) [Greendude, Super Awesome Mega Pimp!]

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is currently March 29 at 3am EST (8am GMT).

Potential replacement for BrokenBlueprints has been found. I'll probably know within the day whether or not he'll replace.

[DeathRowKitty]

Please give a warm welcome to Nachomamma8, who is replacing BrokenBlueprints!

[My Milked Eek]

The people who did, however, can. Their reasons were non-existent at best, and scummy at worst. Since the vote, they have been absent, apart from the occasional post, mostly either insults or promises of content that never came.

Did you really find that comment of mine insulting? And wagonning in that stage wasn't scummy. Unless you want us to be twiddling our thumbs of course.

That being said, it is rather odd mafiassk was willing to wagon gd, but unvoted as soon as gd posted something that resembled a defense. I'd assume that a pressure wagon (which it was) would require more momentum than that and I'm sure mafiassk knows this as well.

Anyone else think this vote is OMGUS?

And what's your opinion on this omgus? Just pointing it out is discriminating (or attempting to do so) mafiassk without trying to appear to do so. I can't think that you can dismiss ssk's vote as omgus so easily, he's got some reasoning behind it so tell us if it are bull reasons or not and why instead of this egging.

About this demon-gant-mafiassk discussion:
I don't like mafiassk trying to tie dg and wolf together. Haven't read his case in detail as I don't have much time right now, but I will do so tomorrow.
And I don't like zodiark egging on mafiassk. Depending on his answers to my questions this might indicate something about mafiassk's alignment.

Anyways, got a test tomorrow, so got to go study.

[Damon_Gant]

Pleasing to see a post from MME, I was literally just about to call for one. Just so you know, I don't think that your entry to GD's wagon was necessarily scummy in the slightest, it was a wagon that was good for getting information. MafiaSSK hampered its usefulness unfortunately by his unvote, but I've said this a thousand times.

To be fair to zodiark, my first impression SSK's vote on me was OMGUS, but I don't really think that's the case anymore. There were easier targets for SSK to go for on his wagon than me I think. Zodiark for one, joined the wagon with initially, very little to contribute himself, so he would have been an easier target.

[Nachomamma8]

/rhubarb jello

Will post in a little bit...

Rhubarb jello? o_O *checks outbox* Nope, wrong word.

-DRK

[wolframnhart]

I hate all of you and your rhubarb jello!! I will make and eat some cherry jello with cool whip to spite you all!

And welcome Nacho.

[Nachomamma8]

DRK, I can breadcrumb my word because I'm Irish and cool . I'm not short and Lucky Charms are nasty to me, so I guess it doesn't work too well...

Much better! Carry on.

-DRK

Vote: My Milked Eek

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?

Vote: My Milked Eek

for silently leaving his vote on GD in that last post.

[easjo682]

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

it could be because the people who aren't on the bandwagon are not convinced of his scumminess. and since this post it puts me off jumping on the bandwagon even more, it makes me think that you're scum looking for people to lynch a townie, besides which I'm happy to...

Unvote

[Damon_Gant]

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

it could be because the people who aren't on the bandwagon are not convinced of his scumminess. and since this post it puts me off jumping on the bandwagon even more, it makes me think that you're scum looking for people to lynch a townie, besides which I'm happy to...

Unvote

It's obvious people weren't on the bandwagon because they didn't believe in SSK's scumminess. What I wanted to know is

why

they weren't convinced.

What's with the unexplained unvote? It's got nothing to do with anything else in that post.

[easjo682]

the unvote is because, I no longer think that the person my vote was on is scum.

you want to know why we aren't convinced? Its hard to say what the direct reason for that is but for the most part his actions come off more as anti town than scum