Blitz 18: Wedding Invitational Mafia - GAME OVER

[borkjerfkin]

/confirm

unless I'm missing something it seems advantageous for Bride & Groom to immediately claim?

<<<This is not a "let's start doing this now" this is a "let's talk about doing this now">>>

[borkjerfkin]

Scum may get some advantage to NKing them?

i hereby invite them to sort that out for us considering my wincon

[borkjerfkin]

I highly doubt there would be 4 scum with the "you automatically lose" clause we have

[borkjerfkin]

4 scum is p standard for 17p normals, for comparison

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think scum are likely to pile on like that but also see me not thinking through everything yet >_>

if it instantly wins the game why would they not

[borkjerfkin]

I guess you'd need a claim first but whatever sure

[borkjerfkin]

there's a fairly probable downside that we should probably weigh against that.

this isn't a bad point but, as you may have surmised, I have no idea what that would be

[borkjerfkin]

Also who's your avi? He's super hot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Eifert

[borkjerfkin]

Scum get bonus effects if bride or groom die.

Tie any PR or additional shots to the bride or groom getting NK'd.

This is conjecture?

p-edit:

[borkjerfkin]

Congrats guys

[borkjerfkin]

It's not really about execution to me, I'm not super worried about the quickhammer scenario and I would expect town to unvote on such a claim

It's more about ensuring we can't get in a position where we're considering lynching a bride/groom claim.

[borkjerfkin]

And these

aren't

ICs. They are named townies.

[borkjerfkin]

slash beloved princesses

[borkjerfkin]

on crack

[borkjerfkin]

i don't think the bride and groom are playing yet but maybe i'm wrong
if i'm wrong, they should definitely claim

Interesting conjecture, I didn't consider that, and I kinda get why you might think that

But I think you're probably wrong

[borkjerfkin]

They're named townies where everyone in the game is informed that they are town.

The net result is pretty similar.

No it's not; if the mod would confirm they were town on D5 or whatever then sure, lay low.

That is not what we are dealing with

[borkjerfkin]

ika replaces <player x>

[borkjerfkin]

Confirming that the ffery curse is apparently only limited to newbie games, so yay on that one too.

This you saying you're town?

[borkjerfkin]

In what world are these any kind of IC, activatable or otherwise

[borkjerfkin]

Confirming that the ffery curse is apparently only limited to newbie games, so yay on that one too.

This you saying you're town?

no the ffery curse is she always rolls town
she meant to post that in our scum qt

ur cute

[borkjerfkin]

They just claim first post and never get lynched, effectively being 2 confirmed town.

You realize that isn't the only outcome of that, right?

[borkjerfkin]

This is decidedly not my 3rd fucking scumgame in a row

so there's that

[borkjerfkin]

In what world are these any kind of IC, activatable or otherwise

they're towns who are confirmable by claim

You just posted what was wrong with that: scum counterclaims

[borkjerfkin]

I have no idea what that means

[borkjerfkin]

I know what you mean too but he was arguing we get more utility if they claim late and that would be true with ICs it is not true with these roles

[borkjerfkin]

I'm still in favor of having them claim asap I think.

p-edit: congrats again penguin

[borkjerfkin]

Is this like a big inside joke referral to Rachmarie's Narnia game or something?

[borkjerfkin]

I could've had a wedding singer role

I mean Nacho and Tammy know I'm legit

[borkjerfkin]

Eh

I might be willing to give it a day to see what happens; I expect there to be ancillary things going on OR there to be 2 scum (and I really hope the latter is not the case; I just feel that low scum count games really become a slog as you're not very often rewarded and associatives are hard and etc)

p-edit: a bunch of shit i didn't read

[borkjerfkin]

Townreading nati medium hard

[borkjerfkin]

giving it a day also allows scum to give bride/groom claims to their members in trouble, which seems optimal to me

that snark though

[borkjerfkin]

giving it a day also allows scum to give bride/groom claims to their members in trouble, which seems optimal to me

Pardon?

That was him sarcastically not agreeing with my 119

[borkjerfkin]

giving it a day also allows scum to give bride/groom claims to their members in trouble, which seems optimal to me

Pardon?

That was him sarcastically not agreeing with my 119

there wasn't sarcasm
optimal referred to scum's optimal action

Yeah, I got the use of optimal there, and I assumed that was your way of saying "that's dumb cause it gives scum more time to do a thing"

[borkjerfkin]

P.S. Pieguyn is mafia.

I cannot _wait_ to hear the reasoning behind this. I actually thought I was pretty transparently town so far.

I am not townreading you as of yet; I don't think anything in 131 135 are really ringing my bell and the only other thing you've done is call 2 people town one of which is the lowest risk townread to make ever

I am curious as to what you thought was transparently town so far

which I don't think I'd normally ask to someone about themselves but in this case I thought it was egregious enough to

[borkjerfkin]

Is this like a big inside joke referral to Rachmarie's Narnia game or something?

AP's joke was a reference to that, yes.

Was AP even in that game? I don't remember him being in it

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really see anything wrong with anything Empire has posted so far

[borkjerfkin]

bork remember when I asked you that question and you got mad at me

I'm not mad at you

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really see anything scummy with anything Empire has posted so far

[borkjerfkin]

if i was scum here, i would actually be scared out of my fucking mind because of it being a blitz game with at least seven or eight players each of whom would individually be capable of pinning me to the wall. i usually rely on making logical, well-thought out posts as scum and in a blitz game, don't really have time to do that. i don't think i would have opened this game the way i did if i was scum

this is a really lateral point to get to "transparently town" from

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really see anything scummy with anything Empire has posted so far

Nacho's on his bully pulpit, which is a good thing.

I am not really worried about Nacho right now

[borkjerfkin]

Pie, what bork said. Your two townreads are too easy

I don't actually think those reads are scummy, they're just "not transparently town" from pie

[borkjerfkin]

fucking deja vu all over the place right now

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really see anything scummy with anything Empire has posted so far

Nacho's on his bully pulpit, which is a good thing.

I am not really worried about Nacho right now

But that's why Empire's scum though.

What do you mean?

[borkjerfkin]

under any rational definition of win we won the shit out of that game

[borkjerfkin]

I recognize there is a seam between what Empire says I said about Pie and what I actually said about Pie

[borkjerfkin]

here nacho I don't see how this is going to do anything before ffery says the game starts:

VOTE: Empire

Still actually undecided on Empire.

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

The game still hasn't actually started

[borkjerfkin]

I'm reading people almost entirely based off gut/tone so far

Somewhat of an aside but you jumped up my ass for reading you like this when I was scum last game (and was right of course) and I don't really know what my point here is other that I'm miffed about it

[borkjerfkin]

Not really getting a Ceph-scum vibe Nacho

Me neither

[borkjerfkin]

Syryana, if you like my vote why aren't you following it?

You know, I'm not actually sure

VOTE: AP

Vote: AP

why isn't this vote for pie

Why should it be a vote for pie?

Why is AP scum in your own words; liking the vote on him was your first reference to him other than agreeing w/ his read on me

[borkjerfkin]

I think Maestro's Large Normal (where I was scum and you replaced in on D2) was even faster than this

Might have been walking dead though I can't remember

above @AP

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really see anything wrong with that (except maybe as a reason to townread Empire)

Which I can't really tell if you're doing here or not

above @syr

[borkjerfkin]

I like 242

[borkjerfkin]

pie what are you seeing from Ceph that worries you

[borkjerfkin]

You're ok with an AP vote in lieu of an empire vote even though it's

1) unqualifiable for you other than gut
2) Empire (who you are still admittedly scumreading) is voting for him too?

[borkjerfkin]

pie what are you seeing from Ceph that worries you

initial reaction to 229 was it was scum trying to keep a T/T going, since at that point it should have been obvious why Empire's vote wasn't on me over AP

I don't agree; I'm still a little in the dark myself because I can't tell if Empire's trajectory on you is a legitimate scumread or just a pure reaction test
You also expressed this sentiment

[borkjerfkin]

Agree on 255 which is essentially non-content

[borkjerfkin]

Gotta drive home myself, back tonight

[borkjerfkin]

Lets not even talk about X-men mafia :S. That game might actually be the biggest shitshow I've been in.

Spoiler: not game related

I realize that a lot of your sentiments about that had to do with my actions early in the game; I am truly sorry about that but I was working off a gamestate that literally made no sense unless I knew that Feu had actually killed his partner; the only other conclusion that worked at that point was that Feu was town that had killed scum Majiffy and you were just lying.

I ended up ignoring a lot of people telling me I was wrong in order to make that work, but that's where my head was at and that's why I couldn't change my mind about it.

1) Well it was a pretty much shooting from the hip read and I've since gotten more -shrug- about it because other people are posting things that look town to me and I dont want to bloat my townreads. The thought was about how persistent he was in encouraging the groom/bride to claim. Its a bit bold for scum and doesn't really match up with what I recall of Bork's scumgame anyhow. I like that he had direction so early and I generally had good feelings about him.

I came into this expecting to lambaste you about this because on some level I felt that you may have tempered the read to mollify Empire, but honestly you were the first person to townread me and it was everyone else that assembled the cavalcade to agree with you (which should be a good indication that you're right) but yeah
I want to give you room here because I think you're a potentially dangerous threat to scum if you're town, I just feel that you're really only 1) being reactive rather than proactive and 2) only really reaching skin deep

[borkjerfkin]

I have 6 townreads so far

o/
?

[borkjerfkin]

yesssss

[borkjerfkin]

I'm sorry for being scum in our past few games

[borkjerfkin]

not sure I expect 310 from scum ns

we'll see

[borkjerfkin]

that is as tiny a gradient toward town as I will give

but it is one

[borkjerfkin]

Full disclosure I intend to avenge touhou in the future

dunked

[borkjerfkin]

Nacho pls let him buddy me more first pls

wait is nacho talking about you or me lol

[borkjerfkin]

you sure wouldn't

[borkjerfkin]

Where's your guesses bork

uh

they'd have to be primarily meta reads? how in depth have you read?
gif? pie? nacho?

yes?

[borkjerfkin]

ok I no longer get the point of this exercise

@Nacho: despite Tammy's brevity so far I feel ok about her

Y/N?

[borkjerfkin]

Because you literally gave me no context other than "I have 5 townreads" so I picked people I thought you might have focused on early

[borkjerfkin]

Because I want to see if you see what I see

I dont know why you didn't anticipate me being paranoid of nacho or pie tho

I'm townreading nati too
ceph

maybe

, no good history reading ceph I am 0/1 there
BRO was fine early
Nacho I want to townread here too

[borkjerfkin]

pie I want to except pie's not really communicating with me on the level I would like yet (which I am chalking up to responding to things without being fully caught up)

[borkjerfkin]

Angry frat bros

both AP and BRO you are townreading?

[borkjerfkin]

ok I no longer get the point of this exercise

@Nacho: despite Tammy's brevity so far I feel ok about her

Y/N?

Also, I don't get this.

eh, gut. I don't mind her opening

[borkjerfkin]

ftr I don't expect to work with everyone this game and I would really appreciate if I didn't have you or anyone else pushing this on me. there's a lot of people in this game I usually try to work with and I usually don't work closely with more than a few ppl/game.

I get it; I'm not trying to push anything on you, and I think if you're town you're just gonna click for me like you did at the end of Day 1 in Persona. You're already showing snippets of deep analysis that I associate with your towngame (and honestly I don't think all the stuff I said about you when I was scum last game is really untrue; your tone is, on some level, markedly different when you're town vs scum. Especially early game.)

[borkjerfkin]

I stand by what I said. That point you made against empire was bad. The rest of what happened between you two is fuzzy to me.

I too want to get back to this when Empire has time as I am more ??? about it from Empire's end than Pie's - were you actually scumreading Pie or just testing Pie. I think we're past the point of getting any additional dialog about your opening against Pie to talk about that.

If Pie gets here first I maybe at least want to know if you are also wondering this as you brought it up at one point too

[borkjerfkin]

She's (pie) boring me

What have you read so far

[borkjerfkin]

Everything

you're also underwhelming me

me?

[borkjerfkin]

What I mean is that I've totally lost track of empire/pie stuff and whoever it was/whoever else it was stuff.

I did too, everyone kinda did, and Empire's been gone, but it was a large part of Empire's opening and I want it clarified.

[borkjerfkin]

I am curious as to what you thought was transparently town so far

which I don't think I'd normally ask to someone about themselves but in this case I thought it was egregious enough to

if i was scum here, i would actually be scared out of my fucking mind because of it being a blitz game with at least seven or eight players each of whom would individually be capable of pinning me to the wall. i usually rely on making logical, well-thought out posts as scum and in a blitz game, don't really have time to do that. i don't think i would have opened this game the way i did if i was scum

/shrug

@AP; pie's response to my asking that exact question

[borkjerfkin]

Can I just sheep bork? No. I find myself not really caring about this Empire and/or pie conversation(s).

I don't really understand why you posted this. Why mention me at all if you don't care about what i am talking about? am i a townread? Have reads you agree with?

[borkjerfkin]

A reasonably strong townread, yeah, plus you're just really really sheepable. I was trying to start SoC'ing while reading back a couple pages and got bored.

What is SoCing and what games of mine have you read, because I believe our only interactions in any completed game have been scum-scum

[borkjerfkin]

Nothing

Which is why I am concerned.

the fuck?

[borkjerfkin]

SoC = stream of consciousness
Is that supposed to make you less sheepable?
I didn't realise how long ago those were though. I might have to check some more recent meta.

No, i am just curious what and how much exposure you have to my towngame since you have never played with town me before ever

[borkjerfkin]

Back sfter rehearsal

[borkjerfkin]

Nacho, who are we lynching Today? Right now I'd lynch most people who aren't Nacho, Tammy, or BRO.

I would not lynch any of these either
I would not lynch Nati or NS. I feel pretty strongly about both of these so far.
I would not lynch pieguy. I feel a little less strong but strong enough to blackball for D1.
I would probably not lynch ceph and I don't get the veiled scumreads I'm seeing on him so far.

People not in the "wouldn't vote list", arbitrary thoughts:

AP: I'm giving AP room, and I'm not entirely sure what I expect from AP, but it isn't what I've seen so far. Every experience I have with AP has involved him taking a pretty invested approach to the game; granted I have mostly played scum vs him but:
in X-men where I was town and he was town we were at each other's throats the whole time for a pretty niche reason and I am kind of throwing that out
in Maestro's game where I was scum and he was town he had a HUGE global presence and was a major town leader and eventually caught me.
in Tales of You where we were both scum he pretty much took potshots at me the whole game despite being mostly townread and actually caused me to tilt a little.
as such it's difficult for me to establish a baseline here; I'm a little put off by the fact that his not lynch list consists of three people despite throwing townreads around early

Mara: Want to hear her reasons for not being satisfied with me. Not really concerned that that's the stance she's taken (I think we're past the point where people get towncred for townreading me; half the game has done it [Tammy this is your cue], I'm town, deal with it) so I can potentially see Town Mara legitimately not seeing it or Scum Mara just going against the grain.

GM: super weird trajectory on me so far. Want to know why she's scumreading Nacho.

Empire: I legitimately don't know what to say about Empire so far.

Syr: have my eye on but nothing really concrete to say here either; don't feel comfortable reading either way.

Mala: meh opening

GIF: not enough there to comment on; I guess I can see why townreads might exist already but meh

If I missed anyone then you suck and whatever this post is too long already

[borkjerfkin]

your townreads plix

[borkjerfkin]

I haven't caught up yet since I just came back from work but last time I was here {Nacho/Pie/BRO/Nati}.

wow you're missing a big one

[borkjerfkin]

also I liked Empire's confidence that "Nacho would 100% see me as town if he's town" after he sorted me, would be kinda impressed if he felt that confident to post smth like that as scum specifically after doing something deliberately confusing that would give people cause to question him.

I feel like even I would be able to do this as scum and you know how I feel about my scumgame

[borkjerfkin]

Does it start with a "b" and ends with a "n"?

the shorthand is fine too but yeah

[borkjerfkin]

hatesplosion

[borkjerfkin]

nor you mine

[borkjerfkin]

but point acknowledged

[borkjerfkin]

not the point i was trying to make, I get you.

[borkjerfkin]

honestly I still like it but more because it didn't come off forced to me. in my recent memory whenever you'd emulate your "you're not lynching me" or "I'm super town" or whatever, it would feel off timing-wise.

I just think it's an easier thing to have bravado about than you're making it sound; I just lack trajectory on that slot so far and that point isn't doing it for me right now; I'm not scumreading him atm

[borkjerfkin]

I swear to god I thought I saw you vote nacho

above @gm

[borkjerfkin]

ah it was Mala and I confused avatars, my bad

[borkjerfkin]

What do people think of bork.

I was saying that I don't have any feelings about him one way or another, and this game I find him underwhelming

Like he really isnt doing much.

The whole fucking game is townreading me
That's what they think about me

So let's talk; What are you expecting from me that I am not doing?
I've posted fairly transparent reads: do you disagree with these reads?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm sorry for not engaging you goodmorning but you're the first real scumread I've had and it feels really great

so were all the others.... ugh, never mind

What are you getting at here?

[borkjerfkin]

I have all sorts of paranoid feelings wrt GIF rn.

I still have no fucking idea why anyone is seeing AP's posts as anything resembling town.

I would probably lynch AP today.
I will also feel really bad if I'm wrong.

[borkjerfkin]

6 borkjerfkin - He is here because he basically begged me to.

?
am I

really

not town for play alone?

really?

[borkjerfkin]

Nacho is on that list of townreads I posted when I posted a list of townreads.

Yep, I saw rereading your ISO

As it stands I'm still a little weirded out that you immediately called me sheepable despite me 1) not really pushing a scumread right now (what is there to sheep) and 2) not really having a working knowledge of body of work that would cause you to respect my towngame since your only firsthand experience with me is my

scumgame

[borkjerfkin]

@under bold: [bork]'s doing more than you

I actually really don't like how this is phrased

Mara's own activity should not be a barometer to calling me out if she thinks something is wrong with me

[borkjerfkin]

Sup.

why is mara scum

[borkjerfkin]

which is what?

[borkjerfkin]

Nati is drifting to the null end of my reads. I'm less certain of you, but that may also be influenced by Mara's opinion. I did like this post of yours.

Mara hasn't actually said anything of substance about me. 'A stronger opening' in a bubble means nothing and doesn't really address what is wrong with what I did open with. I'm not impressed with that sentiment from her as it stands sans any real explanation, and I'm gonna get to engaging her on that as long as she's willing to play ball with me, but I'm even less impressed with your pseudo-sheeping of that point considering 1) there

isn't

really a point being made and 2) you've said nothing positive about Mara up until this point which should incline you do really empathize with her sentiment in a bubble

[borkjerfkin]

A stronger start. You didnt make any transparent reads until last night, after my bae said it was bed time

And even so, I have to do alot more to figure out what these "transparent reads" are. Dont know if this has something to do with being on the phone or something but thats how I feel.

Ok. I think my reads post is actually a summary of a lot of earlier 'off the cuff' reads I presented, so anything in that post really shouldn't look new to you if you really did read my whole ISO.

I'm gonna try to meet you halfway here but as I mentioned in the post above this one, you're not really saying anything about my play other than 'you're not impressed by it' or 'it should be stronger' and I can't do fucking anything with that other than point you toward people who are really really good at reading me who are townreading me

[borkjerfkin]

GIF and AP can join my list of townreads.

What are you basing this on?

[borkjerfkin]

I feel that Nati's setup spec toward the beginning of the game points very strongly to her being town, especially due to what role related stuff has transpired since then and I don't really want to go into why.

Once we get some flips I will delve into even more why I think that if I am around.

[borkjerfkin]

Fair enough, I recall thinking it was town-looking as well and that was the basis for my townread on her early game. I feel like townsigns from Nati have been trailing off rather abruptly since then. I'm tempted to dive into setup spec, but now is definitely not the time.

What did Nati do to cause you to worry that her 'townsigns were trailing off'?
How did that evolve into

I guess Malak, Syryana, and maybe

Natirasha

are the only things I have resembling scumreads.

[borkjerfkin]

At the same time, this is all I got. I'm not likely to delve into it anymore, not with nacho resisting that read because I know I'm not the best at reading you and it isn't a very comfortable read to begin with

Fair enough.

[borkjerfkin]

I know Mara hasn't articulated points on you very well. It looks more like a gutmeta thing which is mostly what I've been doing all game anyhow.

Also the post you called me town in was very bombastically 'yo this cat be obvtown'

Bork is town. Gg ez life.

for reference.

and now you're all weird about me because of --->???<--- I did between now and then and the best thing you can come up with is that one person said a vague "I am concerned about this slot" and the progression just doesn't seem natural to me

[borkjerfkin]

I also had no idea this was gonna be a blitz when i signed up. i am not free until tonight;

GM is softing a PR: leave her to D2?

The only person I really far and away have any kind of scumread on is AP just for his read progressions, asking me why i felt like i do about Nati, essentially agreeimg with me, and then ignoring what i said in favor of keeping his unqualified scum read. i want people who think i am wrong there (and i know AP is being townread by some) to tell me why i am wrong. If all you can say is "meta" and can't be bothered to illustrate that meta, we are not going to have a productive conversation

Otherwise i am still trying to sort Mala/Mara/Syr. Mara is making herself difficult to read. Ceph has done some things i don't like but some things i do.

Not sure where i have time to explore for the rest of D1.

[borkjerfkin]

he could just be disengaged here i guess

I love the players, I love my role, I love this game. Problem is my life has been shit for the last week.

Nacho:

dos syr scum say this?

This isn't a leading question; I'm deferring to your opinion but it's literally the only post that gives me pause in his ISO

Also do you agree that GM's post looks like a PR soft or no?

p-edit: looks like you're already talking about this

[borkjerfkin]

intent to vote goodmorning when I see what VC is at

p-edit: and BRO. GM is being the least transparent about her claim of everyone

[borkjerfkin]

GM has already also claimed not Bride/Groom so

p-edit: hm. ok.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not the Bride or Groom but it would really be better not to lynch me.

for reference, GM's post in question.

I at least would not say this as a VT in a position to be lynched.

[borkjerfkin]

Also I am more certain of Nati town than ever now.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: syr

[borkjerfkin]

I'm reading it as "a full claim isn't going to help my survivability so I'm going to just soft and hope for the best"

[borkjerfkin]

Also Nacho/Syr/GM/BRO are not all town, for what that's worth at this point

[borkjerfkin]

nati is now 100% town and I will fucking fight anyone who tries to lynch her ever

[borkjerfkin]

youre a poopyhead

[borkjerfkin]

reminds me of Nati's slenderman (GRRRRR) game

I gotta go I'm getting yelled at I'll be sneaking checkins on my phone in case gamestate changes drastically

[borkjerfkin]

C

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[borkjerfkin]

gg, well played ceph