Mini 708 - Cheat Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Master Ruck]

So you did get it from answers on the test, I'm guessing. Maybe it's balanced seeing as you said the item is unreliable. It's useful, but it doesn't always hit your intended target. There is something else that can make sense of what you heard as well. It's highly possible that Jahudo got a power and used it on sirD, which is why you heard the two of them together but not a killing, obviously because Jahudo didn't kill anybody.

Axel, I am very bluntly told my ability was redirected and unless sirD can say he was equally bluntly told he was successful, then I think I can guess that I targetted sirD last night. I can't have used it on Jahudo as it was a jailer meaning he should have been saved from the doc part of it.

All of which makes me think more so that Axel may be scum. I have openly given away the most information in this game and even more openly discussed my plans with Axel. If he is scum, he knew all my plans that would have brought the last scum to light and ended the game, so he would have ample time to think of ways to sabotage it and bring about the final necessary mislynch to give scum their win. I aimed to jail Ghost so if there was no kill, then ghost was scum. The fact I was redirected and a kill still went through should make me mislynch ghost anyway as he was a big suspect of mine at the time. Now, with my well laid plans so effectively demolished, I can only think that only someone who knew the full plans could have demolished them so well.

These are all just my thoughts and subject to be horribly wrong, but right now they are my strongest thoughts and Axel will have to do something else incredible to shake them.

[sirdanilot]

The mod said that my ability was successful.

That's all I can do, really. Two night actions are in logical conflict and GW simply cannot be scum. I do not believe for one second the mod is intentionally lying to me. It's all there is to it.

I have no idea how to solve this situation other than a process of elimination giving either Master Ruck or Axelrod as scum.

[Master Ruck]

Wait, sirD. You did something last night, that much I can believe, but were you told that everything you sent to iLord went through? Maybe you did something but you redirected someone else to Axel.

[sirdanilot]

I redirected GW to target Axel.

Someone tried to roleblock me, but failed. So my night action succeeded.

That's all I know, and that's all there is to it. The mod doesn't lie to me, unless he's a bastardmod.

Do with it what you can.

[Master Ruck]

Right. Now, if we are to believe all of the claims made today, then Axel made a cop scan on Jahudo which is now null. Simple as, he's solved. I used my jailer on ghost, but I was redirected to someone else and I was not told who. I likely targetted sirD as someone tried to block him, yet for some reason it failed and he redirected GW anyway. The redirection was successful, but ghost's device went haywire again and despite being redirected, he either redirected himself to either Jahudo or sirD. Jahudo's power, if he used one, is a mystery. Now if we make an educated guess and say that Jahudo got a redirection too, then he sent me to sirD and would solve everything.

Problem is, one of us is scum and is likely to be lying. If I'm lying, then the roleblock on sirD is completely unexplained. If axel is lying, there are still no contradictions and there's nothing we can do to prove his honesty in this matter. If Ghost is lying then sirD likely had nothing to connect himself to Jahudo last night at all, and if sirD is lying my roleblock should have gone through but as there was a kill it wouldn't make him scum.

Something has just hit me. I'm still making a guess, but I think GW's power is a watcher ability that doesn't always target who he wants. As he said, he targetted Malthusis and was told DGB killed him a couple nights ago. This time, he targetted sirD, got redirected to axel, but malfunctioned and watched sirD anyway. If he had watched Jahudo, he would have seen who killed him, so I'm still guessing he watched sirD. Now, if we assume everyone is telling the truth again, then why did Ghost not hear me talking to him as well as I am the one most likely to have targetted him thanks to my redirection, and what did Jahudo do with sirD last night?

Sadly, this now gets me nowhere. Ghost can't be lying unless sirD is as well as there was a kill last night, and townies wouldn't lie at this stage. SirD has also been established that if he lied, then my block on him went through and if he is scum, thus has a reason to lie, then no kill should have gone through as it would have been blocked. Hmm, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this did get me somewhere. I'm town, if sirD is lying he actually got roleblocked and Ghost can only have possibly made the kill if sirD is lying as well, which is absurd. Logical conclusion, axel is the last scum.

I will hold off on my vote and leave this post here for anyone else to pick at and see if I'm wrong anywhere. I normally am, but if nobody else can see anything wrong, then I'm voting Axel.

[sirdanilot]

Maybe jahudo roleblocked me? Or wouldn't that have gone through.

I suggest not voting axel yet until we reach a consensus he needs to be lynched. Although my logic says Axel should be scum, GW looks way scummier. And we aren't done figuring this out yet.

Axelrod, what do you think about the matter?

(MR I want to hear Axel's opinions first)

[Axelrod]

This is what it looks like. There's this 3-way thing going on and I am the guy being left out.

MR says he "jailed" someone, but was re-directed and doesn't know who.

SirD has claimed an attempted RB, which may have been the re-directed "jailer" ability, but also claims his own re-direct ability which was supposedly not blocked because it was "faster" than the Role-block. SirD claims to have re-directed GW.

GW does not comfirm being re-directed, but makes it sound like "something" happened to him last Night. But in terms of ability, he claims to have targeted who he was intending to target last Night, which was SirD. And he also claims to have heard SirD with Jahudo.

It doesn't add up, and it doesn't add up multiple ways.

If you believe MR, then he was re-directed, and the only person who could have re-directed him was the scum. The scum must also have killed Jahudo, yes? Do we think a single scum could re-direct MR and kill Jahudo in the same Night?

Even if the scum could re-direct MR

and

kill Jahudo, it would not explain why SirD's attempted re-direct apparently had no effect on GW. It would not explain why GW heard SirD and Jahudo together. MR is suggesting that GW's ability just did what it did of it's own accord? SirD is sticking to his belief that GW could not have killed because he was told his ability was "successful" despite all evidence to the contrary.

GW claims he updated his test, yet received no new abilities. May I ask what your updated answers were, considering that everyone else who updated received something?

I kind of want to believe it's GW, but that would make SirD town, and it seems like for it to be GW he would have needed to have some kind of immunity to SirD. He might conceivably have gotten something like this as scum (you are now immuse to townie powers) but it would be a bit bastardy of the Mod. to then tell SirD that his ability was "successful." But perhaps not more bastardy than when a Mod. tells a Cop that a player is "town" who is actually the scum GF.

It could be a language thing. When I Mod. I will "confirm" my players actions to them, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they worked as advertised.

I have to go to bed now. I'll see if I have any brilliant insights tomorrow.

[Master Ruck]

What we need now is for Ghost to show up and explain his device in more detail. I think I'm right in my guess, but obviously I'd need ghost to confirm it to whatever level he can.

[Axelrod]

I'm doing a GW review to see if there's anything clear cut. And the more I look, the more I don't like.

First post of substance is this responce to Xtoxm where Xto is suspicious of GW because he PM'd him about a trade and GW did not respond in any way. My instinct says that it is

more likely

that a scum would decline to converse via PM than a town, if only because the scum would be more concerned about giving himself away. I also dislike the tone of the response. I bit too sarcastic and over the top. These are not a big points.

More of the same in this post.

Then there's his interaction with Nat. Nat. claims Miller right out of the gate, and in post #104, GW at least appears to express suspicion. Thinks Nat's explanation of why Miller's make sense in this game sounds like a stretch.

This is followed, however, by a Vote for Der Hammer (as opposed to Nat.) Seems to say here that the flavor of Der Hammer's miller claim makes no sense (which, in fairness, was true, especially considering that Der Hammer was not a miller).

Der Hammer corrects himself in the very next post, saying he misread and was not a miller, but GW has nothing further to say about him before he is lynched.

Xtom gets killed that Night.

The next day, GW more or less follows the crowd in an attack on animorpherv. It starts with criticism of his mentioning Jester. Which actually doesn't address the actual case SirD was making, it was more of a side issue/distraction.

GW doesn't vote animorpherv for that, however. He doesn't vote until #268 which is the hammer vote. Here, he's not making an argument against animorpherv, he just says "you are the best lynch" and boom. That kind of lazy vote, without reasons being given is much more scummy than usual.

It's also significant that this comes right after animorpherv has started to attack Nat. Way to cut off any further discussion.

Day 3 GW does a lot of defendaing of Nat. In a seeming reversal of what he said on Day 1, he says he believes Nat's miller claim ("for the most part"), and he does not vote for Nat.

The "for the most part" is a phrase he repeats. It's almost like he's using it to be able to back track in the event it becomes necessary. Also, up to this point, he hasn't given a "stance" on the miller claim except to say he thought Nat. was stretching to justify it's existance on Day 1.

GW votes for Jahudo, and doesn't say anything about anyone else on Day 3.

Day 4 Master Ruck comes right out of the gate fingering DGB as scum. She get's 2 quick votes (Master Ruck and me), but I explicitly say that there should not be a quick lynch before everyone's had a chance to speak. GW, in his first post of the day pretty much
ignores this request, putting down the third vote (with 4 to lynch) in speedy fashion. I really don't like the way he voted either, saying

First and foremost: Vote: DrippingGoofball. Now then, on to other things.

When people say things like "Vote XXX, and now on to other things...." , or "in other news," I find an extraordinarily large amount of times, they are scum.

He sticks on DGB the rest of the day and doesn't say anything about anyone else.

Then, there's the part about him making up test answers.

GW was giving people wrong answers this game. And more than simply guessing at questions he didn't know the answer to, he was

trading

them. As though they were the

right

answers. Seriously? I didn't do a trade with him personally, but that just blows my mind that a townie would do such a thing. It's basically sabatoging other people's tests - in an extremely dishonest fashion.

How can you get involved in a trade where player A says, I've got answers for X, Y and Z, and you say "hey, I've got answers for P, D, and Q" when your answers were

completely made up?

GW attempts to explain this away Here. He claims he had a "theory" about how the answers worked, and made guesses based on this theory.

And while I suppose it's possible one could come up with such a theory - though it would involve not reading the rules or paying attention at all to what the Mod. said - trading your guessed answers as though they were correct is simply terrible. Too terrible to have been done by a town I'm becomming more and more convinced.

This is funny, because I just realized that DGB used the "in other news" line when she voted for

me

HERE.

Today, GW has come out with a very vague claim of some kind of "listening" ability, which he supposedly used to nail DGB the previous day (though, of course, no hint of this was given at all.) He says the device is "glitchy" (which seems very convenient for explaining inconsistent results). He also claims not to have gained any additional powers despite updating his test, and he appears to be the only one who didn't gain anything.

It occurs that, as scum, he vary well may have gained something last Night, but it's something he can't claim - because, gee, it's a scum ability. Like some kind of immunity to Night actions?

What if - and this is speculation now - what if, he got an ability which itself redirects. Something like - anyone who tries to target him gets redirected off of him to the target of his choice. And this is done without the person who targets him knowing it. What if SirD's "redirect" ability, which was slated to hit GW, did not, in fact, hit GW, but was "re-directed" onto Master Ruck? Master Ruck was, in fact, redirected. Then Master Ruck was himself redirected back onto SirD, and it seems very easily like we could be ending up exactly where we are right now.

He's also been, by far the lurkiest player, been prodded multiple times and absent for long stretches. I don't see where he's done anything remotely townie all game.

I want GW to list all his test answers as he submitted them last Night. I'd also like to hear what his answers were the day before he "updated." I don't think he didn't gain anything. I don't believe this "listening device" claim. I think he's the last scum.

[GhostWriter]

There are several things wrong with what you said at the ending. For instance, the speedy vote on DGB. I've already explained I listened to Malthusis being killed that previous night. I had planned to claim, then saw that I didn't need to, due to a claim already being out there that pin-pointed DGB as mafia. My vote was speedy to you, simply because you had no solid data. I may as well have been sitting there watching the murder happen, compared to what you knew. I voted fast because I knew who needed to be killed. Did I hint at it? Hell no. Like I said, I didn't want to talk about having an ability that might be remotely useful.

Second, I explained that I not only guessed, but that the list I looked at, to trade answers, did not show the answers I had guessed. I did not know they were still there. I'd been changing answers since the experiment answers had been entered, and I simply picked answers at random and gave them. I did not remember that a wrong answer took away a point per wrong answer. I just thought we got a point per correct answer, and nothing for wrong ones.

Next, the glitchyness of my device. I'm pretty sure that, no matter who I pick, a dice is rolled and I listen to whoever it lands on. The first time I used it, it happened to land where I wanted it to. The second time, I'm still not sure what's going on. Since I cannot copy post PM's to show you how different they are, I can't do the explanation on how hard it is to determine what happened justice. It tells me that I'm being redirected, and then it almost makes it seem like I'm hearing both SirD and Jahudo in the direction of the person attempting to redirect me. All of this happens after it tells me that I have attempted to use my device, that it has started to malfunction again and that, as I try to focus in on my target, the sound gets sort of hazy or whatever and that my hearing turned to the sound of the voice telling me to hear elsewhere. Going by that, it sort of seems like maybe Jahudo had an ability and also targeted me, as Master Ruck suggested.

As for my device itself. It is literally called "a listening device". There is no other name for it. The name of my ability is the "Drunk Watcher", letting me know that it's not going to work correctly. The mod even uses the word "glitchy" in describing it, which is why I use it when describing it. My ability also isn't single use like the rest of yours seemed to be. So why would I gain a new one while I still have this? Maybe it breaks after a certain amount of uses, I don't know.

[sirdanilot]

Axelrod, I think that if this came down to play style I would probably vote GW over you since he seems more scummy. The problem is the puzzle we have to solve concerning the night actions.

[Master Ruck]

Considering the number of players left, I'm going to sugest something radical. We no lynch today, let scum kill someone tonight, then with maybe another couple of powers used and one less suspect, it may be easier to find the last scum. Right now it's too complex for us to figure out. Far too many twists and turns.

[sirdanilot]

What? That would just bring us even more twists and turns. But I suppose it's the best plan for now... I personally really don't like to be driven in a corner like that, but it might be the only way for town to win this game.

This is one of the harder situations I've been in...

[Axelrod]

@GW: you still haven't posted your test answers. For last Night and the Night before.

@Master Ruck: I also thought about No lynch. I go back and forth. I don't see where it really hurts, but I'm not sure it really helps either.

Maybe that means we should do it though, just because it might help, and probably can't do much harm at this point.

[Master Ruck]

I'll put my vote towards a no lynch for today, but I do want to hear from GW again at least one more time before we end the day.

[iLord]

I would do a vote count, but there hasn't been any votes!

[sirdanilot]

Okay I can agree to that.

GW please post asap and don't drag this thing thank you.

[GhostWriter]

I've gotten mod clarification on what went down with my ability last night.

I aimed for Sirdan. However, as it does, it screwed up and tried to aim elsewhere. At that point it was effected by the redirecting. I did not actually get to listen to who I was redirected to. No, I saw people targeting him. Jahudo and Sirdan. Jahudo DID have an ability. Also, Sirdan is clear, because I have literally been told that he did not perform a kill. He is included in who targeted him because he was directing me that way. I was told this by the mod, with absolutely no flavor to it. He broke it down for me without flavor. That helps a lot.

[sirdanilot]

uh

"No, I saw people targeting him." who is him in this sentence

[GhostWriter]

"Him" would be Axel, who you tried to redirect me to.

[Master Ruck]

I think that's all the information we can get today, then. Well, except for this.

1=B
2=B
3=D
4=C
5=C
6=D
7=B
8=B
9=D
10=C
11=A
12=D
13=C
14=D
15=C

This is the updated answer sheet I sent in last night, and it's gotten me a total of 3 powers over the course of the game. Use it and it may grant you another power that could be of more use. As for now...

Vote: No Lynch

[sirdanilot]

the scum too you know

Hmm. Alright then I decided to do this

hammer vote: no lynch

[Master Ruck]

That's not a hammer. 4 alive means 3 to no lynch. We need either ghost or axel to hammer.

[Master Ruck]

Oh, and I'm thinking scum may not have many powers left to gain, anyway. There were 3, all with their own answers to start with and all able to talk during the night. I doubt it would have taken them long, what with all the trades they all would have done, to get the most amount of powers they could early in the game.

[sirdanilot]

Good point.

Axel or gw please hammer thank you.