Mini 695 - Futurama Mafia - Over

[LlamaFluff]

I dont like the setting up lynches with saying "poro must be scum rolecop".

Sounded to me like you were trying to say i explicitly said that, i must have read it wrong.

You sure hinted at it pretty heavily. Why would day rolecop scum poro claim that xtoxm is an SK anyways?

[Zorblag]

If hes playing as a Jester hes putting in one hell of a performance, I highly doubt it though for two reasons, 1, his whole reaction towards me and the claim of SK, 2, knowing farside, our mod, I can see her being outlandish in her roles but a Jester is one of these contraversial ones that not many people like, as it goes against the ethos of the game farside I believe being one of those people. However thats an opinion not a fact.

Ignoring for the moment the likelihood of the mod putting a jester in the game, why isn't Xtoxm's claim the perfect jester strategy. If we ignore the jester possibility we've got every reason as town to lynch him before we get to lylo. Claiming that you have to be scum dayrolecop is a great move. If we lynch you on day one then we know that Xtoxm was full of it and have every reason to lynch him tomorrow. Scum will leave him alive as a distraction and we now have a good reason to use a lynch on him at some point.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[wolframnhart]

Could have been something as simple as gaining townie points I really don't know, and this is all based on IF Poro is a day rolecop scum. Xtoxm was the one to call Poro that first and I am only saying maybe that is what Poro is, but i at the moment don't think that is the case.

[Porochaz]

This is true, Zorblag. However I dont like considering Jester roles especially on page 3/4 of a thread, its a lot more likely hes an SK panicked. His play suggests it. Hes been given a reprieve for the moment lets see how things play out.

[Zorblag]

I should make it clear that I don't actually think that Xtoxm is a jester. Mostly, at this point I'm trying to figure out a motivation for the SK claim that he had no pressing need to make at all. I suppose I might buy the pressure/panic idea but it seems to be pretty heavy handed for someone who has played before. If Xtoxm is actually an SK then there's no great reason for him to come out and claim it after the one post from Porochaz. Even if he Porochaz did know his role due to a day investigation, Xtoxm wouldn't know that was the case for sure. Perhaps I'm giving too much credit or perhaps even living a single day's life with a crazy claim like SK will let Xtoxm do enough pro-town things to feel that he's justified his death early in the game but on the surface I don't see a good reason to keep Xtoxm alive if we believe him. Given that I think that people are playing to win and that Xtoxm has enough experience to know that drawing suspicion and getting killed day one doesn't help him if he's a town role I'm trying to figure out what alternate motives he could have. I don't want to dismiss the jester possibility just because it's unlikely but I do want to explore the possibilities here. The claim is as scummy as Xtoxm could get and he must have known that when he made it. Why is he making this claim this early in the game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Dukes]

Okay, so let me get this straight.

Poro is claiming that he has Xtoxm as the Serial Killer. Xtoxm

admits this

, then goes on to say he's essentially lost and will turn vig for the time being. He then counter-yells that only Scummies get a Day Cop role. While I have heard of a Scumcop-type role, I've never heard of any role in which you investigate in the day. (Maybe they're common and I'm playing the wrong games.)

Anyway, my cynic-sense is tingling...

FoS: Xtoxm

and

Poro

Have we considered the idea that Poro is bussing Xtoxm? His rationale for saying Xtoxm is SK is that "he's always SK". Xtoxm then says, "Dammit, I hate when you're right, daycop and therefore scum." Ever since, the two have been arguing back and forth over this. The idea is that Xtoxm gets lynched Day 1 and turns up, not SK, but scum anyway. Now we all pat Poro on the back and Follow the Cop straight to Losertown. Or, perhaps, Xtoxm is the Mafia Don with "Last to Go Protection"; then we've wasted our lynch. I'm not which, if either, is the likely outcome, but the players doth protest a tad too much for my liking.

[farside22]

The mod went out to celebrate her birthday vote count:

Xtoxm 2 vote: (Porochaz, wolframnhart )
Porochaz 1 vote: (Xtoxm)
Jahudo 1 vote: (pacman281292)
wolframnhart 1 vote: (LlamaFluff)

Not voting:
Dukes
Gorrad
GhostWriter
Zorblag
kloud1516
Jahudo
Drunken Piper

With 12 alive it will take 7 to lynch
Deadline is November 12th, 3:00pm PST

GW sent me a PM that he will be out of town for about another day.

[Jahudo]

Wow this game blew up fast.

I don't see how Poro's claim of Xtoxm as SK in post 33 is anything more than a random vote comment. But I also don't see how it caused Xtoxm to react with a self-claim like he did in post 34. I've only seen Xtoxm the mod, not the player, so I don't know how he plays.
Xtoxm: Was it all because you thought he had seriously claimed? Is it possible you just don't like being SK?

Since we have 3 weeks, we don't have to decide what to do about this right now. If a SK can be controlled at night, and we have scenarios where Player A or Player B must be scum, etc, then it's not always a bad thing to keep them around a few days.

Wolf's vote could be a normal reaction under the circumstances of such an odd move, so I don't find it that bad.
Group: Should Xtoxm officially claim now, with like character and stuff?

About the Town Day Role Cop possibility, outguessing the mod is bad news bears. But as long as there's balancing I don't see why it can't be made into a role.

Dukes: I suggest you look at the mafiawiki, there's a link at the top of the page. They've got a ton of unusual roles there.

I don't think its bussing between Poro and Xtoxm, but I also don't have reason to believe Poro is cop from what has so far happened. I guess it's always a possibility to keep in mind.

Vote: kloud1516

because he was a polygamist in my last game, so he's always a polygamist [/this is a joke]

[LlamaFluff]

Have we considered the idea that Poro is bussing Xtoxm?

This doesnt work as SK =/= mafia. I still am confused a bit as to what is happening here, but I know what is going on enough to understand that all the suspicion that is getting built up against Poro really doesnt make much sense. The people who are calling Poro scum rolecop are more likely to be scum then Poro in my book.

This is a theme game. It can have odd roles. Dont be so quick to condem.

I still dont think anyone has presented a good answer to the question - "Why did as Poro scum rolecop out xtoxm?" I have heard "townie points" but still, it doesnt make sense.

FoS Dukes

I dont think xtoxm should claim character since he really doesnt need to, character claim adds speculation. What matters (and what we should judge on) is the role, which is SK.

[Drunken Piper]

Thought we were still in the confirmation stages,
And this game has already advanced 4 pages..

(sip), what the hell is going on…page two and two role revealed? Xtoxm, is the SK?!?! I don’t like X’s reaction to Poro AT ALL. It is almost like he flaked for being caught Page 2. I agree with Poro, I do not see farside putting in a jester in the game…we have had some discussion about jesters in the GD, will see if farside has commented in those threads.

This is true, Zorblag. However I dont like considering Jester roles especially on page 3/4 of a thread, its a lot more likely hes an SK panicked. His play suggests it. Hes been given a reprieve for the moment lets see how things play out.

Qft

I really doubt that Poro is bussing X starting on the first page.

More to come..need to go to work…also want to check the GD first before I vote

[Gorrad]

Vote: Xtoxm

, because if I don't do so now I will later.

[Gorrad]

Woah! Made that post when I didn't realise it was page 4 already. Still voting Xtoxm, though. He's bloody well claimed anti-town (which is precisely what I would expect of him) and though I think he's just joking around, there's the shot he isn't.

Plus, if there's one thing I've learned in all my games with Xtoxm, it's that things get a lot easier for town when he's dead.

[Xtoxm]

Volunteer for my nightkill right there.

[Gorrad]

Y'see? Picking an arbitrary target due to an insult, without first asking for a claim and after only two posts by said person.

Well, if you expect me to butter you up or run away, you've got another thing coming. You DO make things easier for town when you're dead, I stick to this.

[Xtoxm]

No. And I believe i've played you twice as scum and me town, and town won in both, and I was part of lylo in both.

So that's just bullshit.

[Gorrad]

Why do you think the scum let you get to LYLO?

[Porochaz]

Volunteer for my nightkill right there.

This is making good on the vig promise...

[Xtoxm]

Why do you think the scum let you get to LYLO?

I think it had something to do with the fact that scum did not have the power to kill in either of those games.

[Dukes]

[quote=Xtoxm]No. And I believe i've played you twice as scum and me town, and town won in both, and I was part of lylo in both. [/quote]

Well, there's a red herring right there. Avowed SK + faulty logic = better off without him.

Vote: Xtoxm

[Jahudo]

No. And I believe i've played you twice as scum and me town, and town won in both, and I was part of lylo in both.

Well, there's a red herring right there. Avowed SK + faulty logic = better off without him.

True, he's not town or scum this time but he says he'll only night kill to help town. Of course he can end up killing town we might see as scummy, so is it worth the risk of letting him kill at all? Can we trust him if this is the best way to go, that is no night killing unconfirmed players?

[Gorrad]

Unvote

Ok, here's what we do. We direct Xtoxm's kill every night, directly. We specifically state who else we want dead before anyone hammers. If this isn't decided on, it's the person with the second most number of votes. If A) Xtoxm kills ANYONE but who we specify, B) We're in or think we're in a LYLO situation, C) It becomes obvious that either Xtoxm's kill is the only kill or he does not have a kill, or D) He pisses us off too much, we lynch him. Personally, I think the SK claim is BS, but I'm willing to give him a shot.

Also, Xtoxm, I want a full flavor claim.

[LlamaFluff]

Personally, I think the SK claim is BS, but I'm willing to give him a shot.

I have had this thought too given his comment about me understanding why he claimed. However fakeclaiming SK is pretty gutsy, and I dont see it being particuarly useful for scum.

I still think that looking at the people who have made some movements to lynch poro tomorrow even when we do not have xtoxms role completely confirmed (wolf and dukes) is the better move today. There can be some stuff out there that is able to deal with an SK tonight. It just seems like the people who are moving towards a D2 lynch of poro on speculation are the most likely to be scum to me.

[Gorrad]

Hmph. It's got benefit to scum, you just have to think about it. The risks aren't worth it in my opinion, but this is Xtoxm.

[Zorblag]

Right, I've had a night to sleep on it. I still have suspicions about Xtoxm's claim not being legitimate. I don't see it as a useful move for him if it's true. I've got some thoughts I'm still mulling about what else me might be up to but for now, Xtoxm, can you confirm one more that you really are claiming to be an SK? I want to get more information to help rule out some sort of post restriction you might have which forced you to make the claim once.

I don't think that there's a good reason to believe that Porochaz is a day role cop for either alignment. He might be but the case for it definitely being the case strikes me as flimsy. If I decide that he's scum as we go it's going to be based on other things. Right now I put him at about neutral as far as my suspicions go.

The players that seem right now to think that Xtoxm should be lynched based on his claim and simply accept that he must be anti-town are Dukes, Porochaz and Wolframnhart. Gorrad and Jahudo seem open to using the SK role for a while if we can come up with a way to do it which seems safe. I can accept all of these as potentially legitimate. Perhaps I find Wolframnhart a bit over ready to do away with Xtoxm and Dukes to be a bit on the bandwagonny side as he gets reactions. I also don't think that the Xtoxm/Porochaz cross-bussing action seems particularly likely and don't love the somewhat blatant robot-crumbing that he's done.

I also don't have nearly enough information to work with on any of Drunken Piper, kloud1516, GhostWriter (excused for now as he's let the mod know he can't be here yet) and pacman281292 to make any sort of informed decisions involving them.

I suppose a

FoS: Dukes

is in order at this time.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[LlamaFluff]

Hmph. It's got benefit to scum, you just have to think about it. The risks aren't worth it in my opinion, but this is Xtoxm.

I dont really see it being a benefit. There will be something that outs him as not being an SK pretty fast if he really isnt, from there he just gets lynched. The risks arent even close to being worth it, and the way he reacted to poro bringing up him being an SK doesnt feel like scum to me.

Zorb is right about poro. There is no good reason to be suspecting poro right now. Can you explain the FoS on Dukes a little more though? It seems that he is being suspected for the same reason that you are suspecting wolf and poro, even wolf more as you call him wagony but not Dukes.