Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[Elmo]

Day 1, Vote Count #2 - Lynching

Skillet (4) <- Electra, sthar8, eldarad, TDC
eldarad (2) <- Incognito, iLord
fuzzylightning (2) <- Jahudo, Crazy
Crazy <- Skillit
iLord <- Raging Rabbit

Boost Count

Electra (3) <- eldarad, Raging Rabbit, TDC
springlullaby <- Jahudo
Incognito <- Skillit
eldarad <- TDC

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch/boost.

[Jahudo]

A more complete understanding of the reality of the mechanics cannot help but to be more accurate than an inaccurate one, and would assist in our individual and collective boost strategies and in the discussion of such strats..

Ok. It was still strange how prepared you were to go in-depth on page 1. Since Electra initiated the serious posting, your timing for a response is okay. Your confessed thoroughness could account for the in-depth response, but that personality is now something more to consider in the future.

Also, what does "TL;DR Version" stand for?

I'm tempted to vote electra for her avatar, but I'd rather wait and see if we can keep the Skillit wagon going for a bit longer.

So are you considering a random vote or a serious wagon? What stage are you in?

[springlullaby]

Boost electra

I think her post comes from a townie.

What skillet said seems superficial but on second thought I think it makes a good point, it's good to keep in mind that mafia may have abilities that are independent from boost to avoid reasonings based on wrong basis - ie: "X can't be responsible of action XXXX because X hasn't been boosted".

I don't like TDC's vote on him.

VOTE:TDC

[sthar8]

What stage are you in?

Post-formal. How about you?

So are you considering a random vote or a serious wagon?

"Tempted" does not equal "considering." I was teasing electra based on her most recent post, and announcing that I see some value in the Skillit wagon. For the record, I consider my vote to still be random, but I also like the results of it sitting where it is. I don't see anything that merits a true nonrandom vote yet, although there are a couple promising leads.

[iLord]

I need to reread - I'm completely at lost as to what's happening.

Post to come later today.

[iLord]

asdfasdf

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The whole three catagories thing is weak - it really doesn't read as a scum slip-up, which would be the only explanation for such action as scum. Reads like opinionated speculation to me - null tell.

---------------------------

I'm not sure why ILord and RR are talking about guilties and innocents, when Electra's claim clearly said she'll get "information about the town", which I'd guess would be things like "There's X scum in the town" or "there are Y vanillas". Nothing she said suggested it's a cop investigation.

About the town?

That weakens its possible potenial quite a bit...

But it also limits the amount of influence she would have if she were scum.

And, as Electra said, for a scum to make that leap of faith about the existence or otherwise of boostable vanilla townies, or whatever, is pause for thought.

Vanilla getting powers is just like goon getting powers, if it weren't for the sample vanilla PM.

This is a very good point, so I'll boost Electra later, unless she notes that being boosted now would be beneficial.

I don't see how lynching before boosting gives us any more information - we won't learn the victim's alignment if we get a lynch majority before we've done the boosting thing. And we can't lynch Today without choosing two people to boost.
So I don't understand where you are going with this.

We'll just have more information from the wagon. Just like as the day goes on, we get a better idea of who's scum, we'll get a better idea of who's town as the day goes on.

--------------------------------

Really busy until the 25th, so more scumhunting then.

[Incognito]

As far as any conclusions about her - i dont really feel like the 3 vs 4 issue is really any kind of definitive tell. I made a snarky comment at the end of one of my posts, something like "how could you know this??" or something (not really worth looking up). It was obviously poorly placed and implemented, and was a gigantic distraction from my point,

so i should point out that i was not trying to incriminate her or call out anything

, i just tend to joke around a lot during the first few pages.

I'm commenting on what I've bolded in orange here. If this is what you're considering to be a "snarky comment not meant to incriminate her":

you don't...have extra information about the specifics of the mafia members powers...

do you?

was the following also a snarky comment not meant to incriminate her as well?:

Its odd (heh get it? odd?? ehh??) to me that she omitted the category of scum w/ no power but the potential to gain one as it logically and mathematically seems as self evident as the town version.

If even this second comment wasn't meant to incriminate her, why exactly did you classify her omission of this fourth category as "odd"? What was odd about it then?

Boost electra

I think her post comes from a townie.

What skillet said seems superficial but on second thought I think it makes a good point, it's good to keep in mind that mafia may have abilities that are independent from boost to avoid reasonings based on wrong basis - ie: "X can't be responsible of action XXXX because X hasn't been boosted".

I don't like TDC's vote on him.

VOTE:TDC

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Why do you think Electra's post comes from a townie? Also, can you explain in a bit more detail why you don't like TDC's vote on Skillit?

Also,

unvote; vote: sthar8.

I'm not liking your

35

and your

49

as they're two examples where you've responded on behalf of two separate people before they've been given the chance to respond to issues on their own. Is there any reason why you feel the need to do this?

[Skillit]

(heh get it? odd?? ehh??)

"She said 3 instead of 4, i find that odd" odd as in odd numbered. it was a pun. i thought it was kinda funny /shrug

[Incognito]

(heh get it? odd?? ehh??)

"She said 3 instead of 4, i find that odd" odd as in odd numbered. it was a pun. i thought it was kinda funny /shrug

I got the pun and thought it was funny too, but I thought you still meant it in both senses of the word.

[sthar8]

Incog: Wow...I hadn't even really noticed that I was doing that. And I HATE when people do that. I'm sorry

I'll pay more attention.

[Raging Rabbit]

Vanilla getting powers is just like goon getting powers, if it weren't for the sample vanilla PM.

This is a very good point, so I'll boost Electra later, unless she notes that being boosted now would be beneficial.

I could be misreading something, but these two sentences seem to contradict each other. Isn't the conclusion from your first sentence that scum can just as easily be "extra boostable" as well?

Incog: Wow...I hadn't even really noticed that I was doing that. And I HATE when people do that. I'm sorry

I'll pay more attention.

I don't really buy you weren't noticing the stuff you wrote, this sorta panicky response looks like scum kicking himself for being suspected.

Unvote, vote sthar.

[Incognito]

Mod:

Could we get a prod on fuzzylightning? He hasn't posted yet. Thanks.

[sthar8]

I don't really buy you weren't noticing the stuff you wrote, this sorta panicky response looks like scum kicking himself for being suspected.

I was defending

my opinion

and I didn't stop to consider that the questions were directed at someone other than me, or that their primary objective might not be to understand the position I was taking. Would you prefer that I lied and came up with some bullshit reason to be answering other people's questions? The simple fact is that I wasn't paying enough attention to determine that I shouldn't have answered those questions at that time.

How does my response imply that I didn't know what I was writing? I know (and knew) exactly what I was saying, the only problem was that my timing should have been better.

I don't see how my response was panicky, or scummy. You're welcome to show me how admitting a mistake and promising to do better is indicative of alignment.

[Elmo]

Mod:

Could we get a prod on fuzzylightning?

fuzzylightning has been prodded.

[Electra]

@ sthar – I’m not sure how I’d want to the other person to be chosen. It’s very tricky. I don’t want to say any ideas that would be “definites” because then the Mafia could just try to make themselves fall under whatever category. I do have ideas, but they’d be based on things that happen later in the day, so I’d just like to let those things happen naturally and then suggest my ideas.

@ iLord – I’m not saying that they can’t make a gambit, but it’s not commonly seen. The reason it’s not commonly seen is that scum generally don’t have a town enough perspective to be able to make such a gambit so early in the game.

It’s possible that Patrick views my type of role as sort of in between a vanilla and a power role.

I’m not asking you to boost me now, you can wait and decide later if you like. However, if I was planning to make this type of claim anytime during the day, then my first post was the best time to do it because it’s the least likely time that scum would be able to do it (because they would lack information about townies getting told about their boost and because they would have the least amount of time to decide if it was worth it to make such a gamble).

@ Skillet – At least for me, I’m still used to Mafia just being “goons.” Are Mafia roles really so common now? (aside from godfather which is not really a role)

@ Skillet’s second post – I think that aside from Mafia roleblocker, Mafia gaining other roles is just not beneficial. For example, a Mafia cop… what is that going to even do? And a Mafia doc? :p That’s why I didn’t really think about Mafia gaining other role abilities, although it’s certainly possible they get a roleblock.

@ iLord – I don’t know what kind of information I get, but I do hope it’s something cop-ish, and it certainly would be nice if I got scum out of it. :p And no, I don’t think I get some sort of benefit by being boosted earlier (unless I get the info as soon as I’m boosted? I assumed it would just be at night, but it would certainly be nice… I will ask the mod.)

@ sthar – I was under the impression that boosting works just like lynching, so people can unboost if they choose.

@ springlullaby – What do you not like about TDC’s vote specifically?

Now about scumminess… I may be a bit too influenced by my limited meta, because I just came out of a game as scum with sthar and skillet, but at least for now, it looks like sthar is not really scummy. Don’t read too much into this, I haven’t looked into their other games, it just seems like sthar is acting slightly differently from when he was mafia. Also, from his posts after the last game, it seems like he enjoys thinking a lot so I’m not surprised that he answers a lot of questions that aren’t necessarily directed at him. :p As for Skillet, he seems to be acting similarly to last game, but of course that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s mafia.

I think in terms of responses to my original post… first I appreciate the boosts, and I hope that you’re doing so because you think I’m town-ish. Second, in terms of suspicious responses – Crazy’s “I’d like to just play normally and ignore all this boosting stuff” seems weird to me, it’s a bit passive, and sort of seems like scum trying to have a “safe” opinion. I find eldarad’s post to be unscummy, as I think that there’s no reason for scum to be the first to “react” to such a unique post. :p I also find iLord’s post to be unscummy for a similar reason.

[iLord]

@RR: The sample vanilla PM said nothing about specifying powers when boosted. Scum would have to make quite the leap in order to assume that certain roles would have that addition.

@Electra: Okay then - I'll boost you at the end of the day. I do see your reasoning for coming out now, though.

Mafia can have loads of abilities, just different ones from the town.

[sthar8]

Electra: I was under the impression that boosting works

exactly

like lynching. As in, once we reach a majority on a player, they are boosted and we don't get to take it back. If such a player were later to become the scummiest person or the strongest lynch, we would have wasted one of our boosts. It's not terribly likely, but such turnarounds can happen, especially if the day goes long.

Would you boost someone who had played a similar gambit to yours?

[iLord]

@sthar8: You're right that boosts cannot be taken back.

[iLord]

Post got cut off...

That is another reason why lynching before confirming a boost is better because in this game, as long as we don't boost, lynches can be taken back.

[fuzzylightning]

Alright, I apologize for missing the beginning of this game. I forgot to look for the thread and was waiting for a PM saying the game has started, after confirming, which never came.

I think Electra made a smart play for her, regardless of her alignment, but I am inclined to believe that she is doing it as a townie because it is a high risk situation for scum and I don't necessarily know that the reward for being boosted so early in the day would be worth it. I will however, withhold my boost vote for later because as it's been said, boosts cannot be taken back and we don't want to move too quickly until we have an idea of who we are going to lynch.

Regarding skillit's "attack" on Electra's argument, I think it has been misconstrued, the pun was there, and while cheeky and funny, it made it seem like you were making way too big a deal of it as you went on. I feel that if you have to explain your joke than it wasn't all that great to begin with, although I did like it.

I think that this game needs to be played fairly straight, but boosting must be kept in mind and we need to have an idea of those who we will definitely boost along with those we want to lynch, although lynching should come first because the boosting ends the day whereas a lynch may be taken back if boosts haven't been made.

Now as to my theory on the effects of boosting, I think it will work where any one-time roles will get a free use on that night, and any other roles will get an extra use. As far as vanilla's, I think information would make sense, or maybe NK immunity for the one night, which could be good for an almost lylo situation. As far as speculation on what would happen for the mafia, it depends on when the boost goes into effect, because if it is immediate i could see an extra NK or the ability to RB.

Well that's all for now, check in later if I have anything else

[iLord]

Regarding skillit's "attack" on Electra's argument, I think it has been misconstrued, the pun was there, and while cheeky and funny, it made it seem like you were making way too big a deal of it as you went on. I feel that if you have to explain your joke than it wasn't all that great to begin with, although I did like it.

Did this part say anything relevant? What is your opinion on skillit's "attack?" (which was more than just the pun). What bearing do you think it has on skillit or Electra's alignment?

[Incognito]

@Electra:

Are sthar8 and Skillit the only two people in this game who you have metas on?

FWIW, I didn't really think sthar8's response to my vote was very panicky at all, so I wouldn't mind Raging Rabbit explaining why he thought it was a panicky reaction a bit more.

Alright, I apologize for missing the beginning of this game. I forgot to look for the thread and was waiting for a PM saying the game has started, after confirming, which never came.

Have all of your previous games been modded by mods who send PM's out when the game begins?

[Jahudo]

You're right that boosts cannot be taken back.

So do you think once a person has, what, 9 boost votes to break a three way tie majority, that person gets a boost? And the second would need eight and only then the lynch would go through?

For the record, I consider my vote to still be random, but I also like the results of it sitting where it is.

You have no problem with leaving a random vote on a bandwagon of 4 votes?

Regarding skillit's "attack" on Electra's argument, I think it has been misconstrued, the pun was there, and while cheeky and funny, it made it seem like you were making way too big a deal of it as you went on.

Are you saying skillit misconstrued Electra's argument or some people have misconstrued skillit's attack? Do you think his initial statement was understood enough that he shouldn't have had to go on talking about it? And since he did, there's a more serious motive there? What do you feel about the strength of his wagon?

Second, in terms of suspicious responses

You skipped me
Actually I didn't directly say you were town or scum for your claim, but you could be right about scum not being able to make a convincing lie that early. You're still a ways a way from a boost majority so I don't really see the hesitancy in some people to use their boost.

Boost Electra

[Jahudo]

So do you think once a person has, what, 9 boost votes to break a three way tie majority, that person gets a boost?

Doh. I just read the post count that says it's 7 to boost. FoS Jahudo.

[iLord]

You skipped me
Actually I didn't directly say you were town or scum for your claim, but you could be right about scum not being able to make a convincing lie that early. You're still a ways a way from a boost majority so I don't really see the hesitancy in some people to use their boost.

Boost Electra

Our hesitancy will offset the eagerness of others.