Mini 679 - BSG: The Basestar (Game Over!)

[iamausername]

I got an idea, I'm not going to post anything for a while, cause apparently those who don't post are invisible and because I'm here contributing I'm getting asked redundant questions.

Could you show me what exactly you've contributed so far, besides that one post I pointed out in your defence earlier? I mean, I thought Elmo was being unfair saying that you haven't been doing the 'asking questions, poking at people' thing, but besides that one post, it seems like actually, he was exactly right.

You say you don't know who is scum yet, fine. What are you doing to try to find out?

---

Awesome Pants, do you really think it's helpful to try to organise a strategem for dealing with lurkers before there is any indication that anyone in this game is actually going to lurk?

How do you interpret it? I think the answer is fairly obvious, but maybe i'm a minority here. BUT I'm going to assume your a fairly intelligent person and know why its suspect, so that brings into question why ask me why? You know the answer.

I don't know about this. I really doubt that anyone would be dumb enough to defend their scumbuddy so early in the game.

Given that KE was answering a question relating to me defending him, do you really think 'defending a scumbuddy' is the obvious answer he was talking about?

Also, KE, if the answer is so obvious, why not just say it?

---

Tar, given what you currently know, do you think Farkshinsoup is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

[Timeater]

I'm not Tar But I think there is a good chance Fark is scum. Few things really stand out:

Vote: Channeldelibird

unvote

vote: iamusername

I won't answer at this time. Try again later, maybe.

Unhelpful much?

Unvote: Vote Elmo

It seems like you are voting King solely because you have a gripe with his play style. Not good.

Thats not at all why Elmo was voting for king. At least thats not the impression I got. I think he saw Elmo as a threat with his extremely proactive posting and came up with a BS reason for a vote (a reason which really isnt even technically correct) That doesn't sit right with me. Then he later goes on to conform when called on it.

(directed at me)I'd like to hear your answers. You seem evasive.

I like how he doesn't bother answering the said questionaire himself but wants to hear my answers and goes on to state I'm being evasive. That just irks my scumdar. Its like one of those oh-so-subtle pot-shots scum take at townies for anything, ANYTHING, that could be construed as scummy. Those little, sometimes innocent seeming "pot-shots" are a great scumtell imo (and I've had alot of success with recognizing them).

I approve of Tarhalindur vs. Timeater (and then goes on to backtrack saying he just used it to denote interactions bla bla bla)

I still say this is an attempt to brew up confusion and conflict. Thats just my personal view, but I'm sticking to that.

I'd really like to hear from Tar, Rishi - who said he was going to post more later but just ended up taking a little snipe at KE, and ChannelDelibird - who only has three posts.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm not Tar But I think there is a good chance Fark is scum. Few things really stand out:

Vote: Channeldelibird

unvote

vote: iamusername

I won't answer at this time. Try again later, maybe.

Unhelpful much?

Yes, it was unhelpful. I've already explained why I did that. Why have you leap-frogged over my explanation from post 78 and reached back to point out that the original post was unhelpful? Do you believe my explanation? This feels like fake scum-hunting to me.

Unvote: Vote Elmo

It seems like you are voting King solely because you have a gripe with his play style. Not good.

Thats not at all why Elmo was voting for king. At least thats not the impression I got. I think he saw Elmo as a threat with his extremely proactive posting and came up with a BS reason for a vote (a reason which really isnt even technically correct) That doesn't sit right with me. Then he later goes on to conform when called on it.

I stated that this was my interpretation of Elmo's vote (Note the word "seems"). But you first categorically state that I was wrong about why Elmo was voting King, and then in the next sentence you say that this is your "impression". Which is it, verifiable fact, or your opinion?

And yes, I changed my mind, and my vote, after Elmo responded. Seems like you are trying to twist that to fit your notion that I am scum. Could it be that you, the admitted Elmo fanboy, are convinced I'm scum because I dared to challenge Elmo in the first place? Or is there another reason?

(directed at me)I'd like to hear your answers. You seem evasive.

I like how he doesn't bother answering the said questionaire himself but wants to hear my answers and goes on to state I'm being evasive. That just irks my scumdar. Its like one of those oh-so-subtle pot-shots scum take at townies for anything, ANYTHING, that could be construed as scummy. Those little, sometimes innocent seeming "pot-shots" are a great scumtell imo (and I've had alot of success with recognizing them).

This is ridiculous. Tarhalindur explicitly directed his questions to YOU in post 82. (and to KE in post 81). Why would I answer the questions? Please feel free to point out where I have evaded questions DIRECTED TO ME in this game. This is the scummiest thing I've seen in this game so far.

I approve of Tarhalindur vs. Timeater (and then goes on to backtrack saying he just used it to denote interactions bla bla bla)

I still say this is an attempt to brew up confusion and conflict. Thats just my personal view, but I'm sticking to that.

Well, at least you admit that this "argument" is only your opinion.

That crappy post, coupled with your strange veneration of Elmo (as if you have some inside knowledge that he is town) and your earlier evasiveness, is enough for me to

Vote:Timeater

[MacavityLock]

Timeater, how much BSG have you actually watched? Yes, this is a serious game-related question.

BTW, this is my first theme game. Is it reasonable to ask how much knowledge a player has of the theme?

[Timeater]

lol, an OMGUS vote, surprise surprise (didnt see that one coming!)

@MacavityLock - I've seen every episode of the new series up to "Revelations" (I think). Not so familiar with the old one. Why do you ask? Me in particular?

Anyway I guess I better get down to the dirty business of attacking Farkshinsoup and defending myself!

Yes, it was unhelpful. I've already explained why I did that. Why have you leap-frogged over my explanation from post 78 and reached back to point out that the original post was unhelpful? Do you believe my explanation? This feels like fake scum-hunting to me.

It was unhelpful at the time, that doesn't negate the fact that you said it. Just because you were accosted of this mistake and then worked to correct yourself does not mean the initial action was not scummy.

I stated that this was my interpretation of Elmo's vote (Note the word "seems"). But you first categorically state that I was wrong about why Elmo was voting King, and then in the next sentence you say that this is your "impression". Which is it, verifiable fact, or your opinion?

And yes, I changed my mind, and my vote, after Elmo responded. Seems like you are trying to twist that to fit your notion that I am scum. Could it be that you, the admitted Elmo fanboy, are convinced I'm scum because I dared to challenge Elmo in the first place? Or is there another reason?

First paragraph is basically an attempt to exploit semantics in an arguement to gain a emotional advantage - that sort of behavior pings my scumdar. When I say "my impression of it" I mean, thats how I interpreted his posts on Enigma. To me, it seems like he was bending words in his Enigma vote and then later backtracked (again?) when Elmo clarified. Also implying that Elmo and I are somehow connected is ludicrous. I have acknoledged him as a good town player and should be treated as such. Would I really be STUPID enough, if I were scum, to try to create a WIFOM-esq bond like that d1? The answer is no.

This is ridiculous. Tarhalindur explicitly directed his questions to YOU in post 82. (and to KE in post 81). Why would I answer the questions? Please feel free to point out where I have evaded questions DIRECTED TO ME in this game. This is the scummiest thing I've seen in this game so far.

Really, is it fair of you to sit back and judge me of being evasive about not answering a questionaire style post when it easily could be applied to any player in this game? Tar's questions were in no way tailor-made for me, in fact he posted the exact same thing when he was addressing King Enima. (Which I'd note that KE did not specifically respond Tar's questions - he just went on to rant about he is town and about the logical fallacies of random voting etc) I guess my main response to you, Fark, is this:

Given what you currently know, do you think Elmo is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Given what you currently know, do you think iamausername is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Given what you currently know, do you think that I, Timeater, am scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Given what you currently know, do you think King Enigma is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Given what you currently know, do you think Tarhlindur is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

[KingEnigma]

Timeater

Which I'd note that KE did not specifically respond Tar's questions - he just went on to rant about he is town and about the logical fallacies of random voting etc)

Tarhalindur

Given what you currently know, do you think iamausername is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Given what you currently know, do you think that Timeater is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Given what you currently know, do you think that I, Tarhalindur, am scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Me

anyone defending anyone is kind of suspect. (I heart you though iamausername)
anyone saying "whatever everyone else thinks, i'll do that" is also suspect.
bullying people and not answering questions you yourself pose is suspect.

[Timeater]

@King Enigma

That is NOT how post #89 is formatted. I thought you were just ranting, not addressing specific questions.

[Timeater]

Also, since apparently you did answer the questions, when did I do this?

anyone saying "whatever everyone else thinks, i'll do that" is also suspect.

?

I'm looking back through my posts and i'm just not seeing any instance where I have done that.

[KingEnigma]

Timeater

O_o

I take it we're beyond the random voting stage?

unvote

Maybe not meant that way, but thats the way i took it.

[Timeater]

What. That makes absolutely

ZERO

sense.

[MacavityLock]

@MacavityLock - I've seen every episode of the new series up to "Revelations" (I think). Not so familiar with the old one. Why do you ask? Me in particular?

There was something in your post 85 that made me think that you hadn't watched season 4. Nevermind then.

[Elmo]

I have a fanboy. Awesome.

I also have a cold or something. Bleah. I'll get back to you on that mafia thing.

[MacavityLock]

...when he was addressing King Enima.

King Enima: Monarch of No Kingdom I Want to be Subject Of.

[Awesome Pants]

Awesome Pants, do you really think it's helpful to try to organise a strategem for dealing with lurkers before there is any indication that anyone in this game is actually going to lurk?

Maybe not, but I can't see how it could be unhelpful. What do you think?

[Farkshinsoup]

People I want to hear more from regarding the game so far: CDB, andersonw, Grimmy, Awesome Pants.

Timeater: vote placed against player who is making specious arguments against you =/= OMGUS. I leave it up to everyone else to determine the difference.

Also implying that Elmo and I are somehow connected is ludicrous. I have acknoledged him as a good town player and should be treated as such. Would I really be STUPID enough, if I were scum, to try to create a WIFOM-esq bond like that d1? The answer is no.

Sorry, I should have been clear, I wasn't trying to imply that you and Elmo were scum buddies when I said this:

Could it be that you, the admitted Elmo fanboy, are convinced I'm scum because I dared to challenge Elmo in the first place? Or is there another reason?

My implication was that as scum, you would have inside knowledge that Elmo was town, and would benefit from buddying up to him. How are you so sure that he is town at this point?

Really, is it fair of you to sit back and judge me of being evasive about not answering a questionaire style post when it easily could be applied to any player in this game?

Yes. The question was directed to you, and you obfuscated. I wanted to hear your answers and found you evasive. I called you out on it. What does "fair" even have to do with this?

I guess my main response to you, Fark, is this:

requoting questions that were asked of him and KE

I'm going to resist the urge to respond to that with extreme sarcasm. You've totally sidestepped my argument by just asking me the questions that were originally asked of you. I'm sure you're hoping that I won't answer them, so that you can then argue that I've evaded answering the very questions that you yourself did not want to answer. Wish granted! If anyone else but you wants me to answer these questions, I'd be glad to.

Now, please respond to my original argument. I'll post it again for your convenience:

(directed at me)I'd like to hear your answers. You seem evasive.

I like how he doesn't bother answering the said questionaire himself but wants to hear my answers and goes on to state I'm being evasive. That just irks my scumdar. Its like one of those oh-so-subtle pot-shots scum take at townies for anything, ANYTHING, that could be construed as scummy. Those little, sometimes innocent seeming "pot-shots" are a great scumtell imo (and I've had alot of success with recognizing them).

This is ridiculous. Tarhalindur explicitly directed his questions to YOU in post 82. (and to KE in post 81). Why would I answer the questions? Please feel free to point out where I have evaded questions DIRECTED TO ME in this game. This is the scummiest thing I've seen in this game so far.

[Rishi]

I'd really like to hear from Tar, Rishi - who said he was going to post more later but just ended up taking a little snipe at KE, and ChannelDelibird - who only has three posts.

Sorry. I thought I would have had more to say, but didn't. Can't really post when at work, so I'll look at the thread again tonight.

[Timeater]

Hey Fark, why so evasive?

1# Why am I so sure Elmo is town. I'm not 100% sure, but he has done things like scumhunt and call out KE on his "wishywashyness" that I like. He's also put himself out there for scruntiny by being proactive, which is risky for a scummer to do.

2# Saying "obfuscated" after Tar posed his initial questions toward me (which I'd like to point out we still have not HEARD from Tar. ) I was trying to say that if I should be made to answer a questionaire, everyone else should. Thats completely reasonable. Obfuscate my ass! I even bothered answering the questions after the fact because I knew it was the right course of action - it had nothing to do with your post, knowing that refusing to answer would only cause undue paranoia.

3# You haven't answered the questions posed to you. Is it good town play to avoid questions posed in a serious manner that hope to benefit the town? The questions I posed were not meant to be sarcastic, merely answered so the game is even. Your "arguement" is that I am somehow scummly saying you should answer for things that were asked of me. That was not my intention. What I was trying to point out is that while its easy to cast stones and judge me from not wanting to answer a questionaire, its not very fair of you (hence my scumdar being alerted) because the questionaire could be applied to

anyone

.

[iamausername]

You've totally sidestepped my argument by just asking me the questions that were originally asked of you. I'm sure you're hoping that I won't answer them, so that you can then argue that I've evaded answering the very questions that you yourself did not want to answer. Wish granted! If anyone else but you wants me to answer these questions, I'd be glad to.

OK, this is kind of ridiculously hypocritical. Either it's scummy to evade these questions or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. Sure, maybe Timeater is using them as a smokescreen to distract from other things. Why can't you point this out AND answer the questions?

Awesome Pants, do you really think it's helpful to try to organise a strategem for dealing with lurkers before there is any indication that anyone in this game is actually going to lurk?

Maybe not, but I can't see how it could be unhelpful. What do you think?

Well, it kind of seems like you could be using it to make it look like you're being useful, when in fact you are not.

Of course, my saying that there is yet to be an indication that people are going to lurk may now be inaccurate:

People I want to hear more from regarding the game so far: CDB, andersonw, Grimmy, Awesome Pants.

QFTin' dis. Grimmy especially, I totally forgot he was even in this game until this post.

[Rishi]

I didn't think anything in particular would jump out at me during a re-read, but there's this here:

KingEnigma, you seem reluctant to random vote.

You know, I probably wouldn’t have even noticed that KE didn’t random vote if Fark didn’t point it out. Then, after things got stirred up, he immediately withdrew his suspicion. Then, later, Fark jumps on people for criticizing KE’s “play style," when he really started it.

That, and other things, like the Timeater vs. Tar comment makes me feel that Fark is trying to stir things up without really participating.

Vote: Farkshinsoup

[Farkshinsoup]

I didn't think anything in particular would jump out at me during a re-read, but there's this here:

KingEnigma, you seem reluctant to random vote.

You know, I probably wouldn’t have even noticed that KE didn’t random vote if Fark didn’t point it out. Then, after things got stirred up, he immediately withdrew his suspicion. Then, later, Fark jumps on people for criticizing KE’s “play style," when he really started it.

My original statement was pretty neutral. I usually try to choose my words pretty carefully. Notice I did not say, "I find it suspicious that you are not random voting." or "I find it scummy that you are not random voting." It was early in the game, and I was trying to generate discussion by pointing out something I had noticed. So there was no suspicion to withdraw, and I never criticized his play style in the first place.

This is really what stood out to you on your re-read? I'd like you, and others, to weigh in on Timeater's arguments for my scumminess: Good, bad, or ugly?

[Farkshinsoup]

OK, this is kind of ridiculously hypocritical. Either it's scummy to evade these questions or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. Sure, maybe Timeater is using them as a smokescreen to distract from other things. Why can't you point this out AND answer the questions?

I think "ridiculously hypocritical" is a bit of hyperbole, but I get your point. Since you've requested, I'll answer:

Given what you currently know, do you think Elmo is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

No, cause I haven't seen any real scumtells.

Given what you currently know, do you think iamausername is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

No, he's active and is asking the right questions, IMO.

Given what you currently know, do you think that I, Timeater, am scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Yes, based on stuff I've already posted. Not certain by any means, but you're my top candidate.

Given what you currently know, do you think King Enigma is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Don't know, jury's still out.

Given what you currently know, do you think Tarhlindur is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

He's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, etc. I have no read on him.

Now, onwards.

Is it good town play to avoid questions posed in a serious manner that hope to benefit the town? The questions I posed were not meant to be sarcastic, merely answered so the game is even.

What is your obsession with "fairness" and things being "even". This game is, at its core, full of unfairness. It's unfair when innocent townies get lynched. It's unfair when townies are set up by scum. Why does everyone have to ask and answer the same questions? How does that help catch scum, who, by the way, have an "unfair" advantage by knowing who their buddies are and the abiliity to talk to each other and kill at night?

Also, it's disingenuous for you to imply that you asked me those questions because you thought my answers would "benefit the town."

Sure, maybe Timeater is using them as a smokescreen to distract from other things.

QFT.

[Timeater]

I'm not trying to smokescreen anything, lol. Please tell me what I'm "smokescreening".

Anyway, looking over your answers, only one thing stands out:

Don't know, jury's still out.

Whats this mean, you basically will follow votes and join a wagon if the critical suspicion mass on KE reaches its teetering point? I dont like that. Please clarify if thats not what you meant. Also, I dont see how this information, as you claim, is disingenuous. Can you point out how I am not being sincere here?

What is your obsession with "fairness" and things being "even". This game is, at its core, full of unfairness. It's unfair when innocent townies get lynched. It's unfair when townies are set up by scum. Why does everyone have to ask and answer the same questions? How does that help catch scum, who, by the way, have an "unfair" advantage by knowing who their buddies are and the abiliity to talk to each other and kill at night?

Obsession? I use the word a few times and you go on to say I have an obsession. You've got an interesting habbit of overstating things...Anyway - I do believe townies should be fair to one another and the standards of conduct and cooperation should be applied to all townies equally. Of course there are exceptions, e.g a Doc hiding his role or something, but overall, townies should be treated the same way when it comes to things like cooperation and conduct. Thats not saying alot and its not asking for much. As for the game itself, its fair, I dont know what you are talking about. Its up to the mod (and I trust destructor) to equalize the game in a way where all factions, whether they be scum, town, SK, cult, whatever - have a fair chance at winning. Mafia *should* be fair, and I'm sure alot of other experienced players will agree with me.

Anyway, on another note - I'm witholding my vote until I hear from more people, especially Tar. And why does it feel like Fark and I are the only ones talking?

[Rishi]

I didn't think anything in particular would jump out at me during a re-read, but there's this here:

KingEnigma, you seem reluctant to random vote.

You know, I probably wouldn’t have even noticed that KE didn’t random vote if Fark didn’t point it out. Then, after things got stirred up, he immediately withdrew his suspicion. Then, later, Fark jumps on people for criticizing KE’s “play style," when he really started it.

My original statement was pretty neutral. I usually try to choose my words pretty carefully. Notice I did not say, "I find it suspicious that you are not random voting." or "I find it scummy that you are not random voting." It was early in the game, and I was trying to generate discussion by pointing out something I had noticed. So there was no suspicion to withdraw, and I never criticized his play style in the first place.

This is really what stood out to you on your re-read? I'd like you, and others, to weigh in on Timeater's arguments for my scumminess: Good, bad, or ugly?

I think Tim's arguments are good. I didn't feel the need to repeat them.

And, yes, it did jump out on me. It seems like a neutral statement, but the fact is that you were the catalyst to the whole conversation about KE. It's funny that you raised an issue, which raised suspicion on both people who participated in the argument (KE and Elmo) and you seemed to slip away unnoticed. I'm claiming that you're an instigator.

[Farkshinsoup]

I think Tim's arguments are good. I didn't feel the need to repeat them.

Fair enough, it's good to know where you stand.

I'm claiming that you're an instigator.

QFT. I was trying to generate discussion early on, when there wasn't much to talk about. But why do you equate "instigator" with "scum"?

It's funny that you raised an issue, which raised suspicion on both people who participated in the argument (KE and Elmo) and you seemed to slip away unnoticed.

I take issue with "unnoticed". I've been noticed by CDB, Timeater, Iam, you, and Elmo in the short time this game has been going on. I've hardly been hiding in the shadows, either. If you're reading all of this into that original statement about KE's lack of a random vote, you're making a lot of assumptions, IMO.

I'm going to shut up for a bit. There are players I'd like to hear from, and I feel like me vs. Timeater could be giving scum the opportunity to lurk.

[MacavityLock]

Wow, this game got quiet fast. Maybe now would be a good time to talk about what to do about lurkers. I say we airlock 'em!

I think on the Fark vs Tim debate there's a nice thin haze of scumminess from both of them. However, the hypocracy as pointed out by username, as well as a pretty heavy effort to tie Tim to Elmo make me come down on the Fark-is-scummier side.

I'm still on the Enigma wagon. I don't see how he's being helpful and I think he specifically posts things in a confusing manner. At the very least, he needs to start scumhunting.