Newbie 682 - Mayhem in Umore - Game Over, Scum Win!

[Mirth]

Understand what exactly? That you're not addressing my critique of your actions and instead uttering platitudes that are rather irrelevant?

[seb456zig]

I don't see why you have to attack me. Someone that has no understanding on how people think, and on my first game. I said that I'm going with the crowd. What more do you want.

FOS: Mirth

You change your vote on a mistake. Thats not normal.
Judging people on not paying attention. Thats just... um, i dunno but its not right.
I know we probably wont kill mafia day one but your pushing me to the lynch. That isn't helping. I'm a pro-town. Just stop. I don't have any specials. Just a normal townie that is getting attacked for

a mistake

forgetting to read a page isnt a crime, and you dont have any more of a better excuse than me for why we voted for the people we voted for.

[ChuckNorris]

Sorry guys I can't reply now, just going to school. I wil tryy to reply in my lunch break but until then I can't answer any questions. Sorry.

[Mirth]

I don't see why you have to attack me. Someone that has no understanding on how people think, and on my first game. I said that I'm going with the crowd. What more do you want.

FOS: Mirth

You change your vote on a mistake. Thats not normal.
Judging people on not paying attention. Thats just... um, i dunno but its not right.
I know we probably wont kill mafia day one but your pushing me to the lynch. That isn't helping. I'm a pro-town. Just stop. I don't have any specials. Just a normal townie that is getting attacked for

a mistake

forgetting to read a page isnt a crime, and you dont have any more of a better excuse than me for why we voted for the people we voted for.

Why do you feel the need to claim town unprovoked? Especially after I already called someone else on it? Why are you trying so hard so early to convince us that you're town? Do you think your actions so far have been townish?

And I do have a reason, not an excuse for voting you. It has nothing to do with you missing a page. It has to do with you randomly jumping on my wagon saying that you might as well vote to kill me so you don't die. On page 2. This is not protown behavior. Protown behavior is not "I'll jump on the first available wagon as fast as possible so I don't come under fire myself," it's asking questions, evaluating opinions, and waiting as long as necessary for a lynch. You are ignoring this part of my criticism and making me more determined in my vote on you. Voting someone to kill them before you get a chance to come under fire in no way helps anybody. My vote stands.

[seb456zig]

I am in no way telling you to unvote me. The only reason I claim town is to try and help town not waste a lynch. But it does seem kinda stupid now. If you want i wont wagon people but what else can i do. If I don't wagon, then my vote is random. What is better; Wagoning, or Random voting, because i think I'm more likely to kill mafia by wagon then by random. 2:7 odds aren't high and I don't want to kill innocents.

[nureins]

Wow!
Let's put some pressure.
For noob-townies, this is a very simple exercise to start practicing. Read carefully and extract your own conclusions. I want to re-read again to think a bit more about Seb's attitude, but this is the scummiest thing seen up to the moment.

Up to now:

0. Not reading carefully

- Not a very relevant thing yet, but scummies tend to read less than townies, as they dont need to find the scum.

1. Wagoning where most people is smelling just to be part of the mass.

- Wagons Mirth
- When he sees it is a mistake, wagons me

2. Justifying by lieing

- When he defends in front of Mirth accusation, he says that he agrees with the points made my people.
- But obviously, he voted for Mirth without reading the thread and jumped over her. Only after reading the thread he realized there was some smelling over me and jumped again. Just to be with the crowd, as he said, not because he agreed with the reasons !!

3. Justifying by simplifying the accusation

- He simplifies Mirth's accusation by saying she is voting him due to a mistake and only due to that.
- That is obviously a lie, since Mirth is voting her due to what I wrote in 1 (and some 0) basically.

4. OMGUS reaction to Mirth.

- He fosses her as a consequence of her accusations, which are quite fair.
- The Fos is based on the false defense (3).

5. Playing the newbie card

- He claims loudly that he is a newbie to defend his situation (compare to Dej, who I interpreted as a newbie, but he didnt use it in his post...)
- Try to count the number of times he used the newbie-defense...I can only count one-digit numbers and my fingers ended up...

6. Appealing to emotion

- He tries to defend by crying loudly that he is a townie instead of addressing the points of the attack.
- He repeatedly tries to present the situation as "Mirth is a bad person for doing me so". Uses words as "a mistake is not a crime !!" and things like that.

7. Claims without the need of a claim

- He claims to be vanilla townie (without power roles) without significant pressure on him. If he is a townie, he is not helping the town with such a claim so quick...

vote: Seb456

@mega-noob townies (this is my third game ever, so hardly im something else than a newbie. But Id have liked advices in first game, so here it goes): You can now see that serious reasons start to appear. explore, smell, hunt...pressure a bit if you want, but dont rush, we are in no hurry of lynching anybody. Try to find your own reasons, do not panic to cast votes on people you find suspicious. IMO, this guy needs a bit of shaking to explore how scummy he is. L-2 is more than justified. Probably Mirth is a more experienced voice, but if the guy does some other responses in the same direction, L-1 is too...and then, let's see...we are yet in page 3, and we have lot of time...

[seb456zig]

hmm. I see your point entirly and i see where i went wrong.
me saying the wrong thing has in fact led me to believe i dont have long to live my game life. I would just like a simple apology as soon as i die by lynching. I dont mind death but i didnt want to die this early. I can still learn by looking from other people so yea. have fun.

If i dont die i'll be as suprised as you are when u see im innocent. i am the VI and i know it.
oh well, how many people actualy survive during their first game anyway.
Good bye, cruel world.
*Gives nur the finger*

[seb456zig]

lol, no matter what, ive just helped the mafia and i would like to say it was an accident

[nureins]

i am the VI and i know it.

What does this mean ? Can you explain it better ?

[seb456zig]

Mod: can i suicide just so that i dont waste a lynch

[seb456zig]

village idiot.
i said something that was misinterpreted and now im gonna die coz of it

[seb456zig]

Mod: dw bout it, im not gonna suicide just coz i'll feel guilty for wasting a town turn

I think ill just sit back, stop answering questions and see what happens.

[seb456zig]

btw i dont think a fos can be omgus, can it?

[seb456zig]

EBWOP
btw i dont think a

FOS

can be

OMGUS

es, can they?

[Mr Avacado]

Well for starters

Unvote:dejkha

That was just sort of random suspicion to get discussion going. @chuck The only reason that i don't post much is that i do have to go to school (Unfortunately) and I do have a life.
Anyway on to suspicions, That was a very good point brought up by nureins.
Seb asked whether he could be modkilled so to make him look as if he is feeling guilty ... but then five minutes later he has changed his mind and is just going to watch things play out. Seems suspicious...

Vote:seb

[nureins]

@serous: are you there ?

@cute: Id appreciate your analysis, as basic as it can be...

@Dej: You did some of the mistakes that seb is making now. Do you want to go over my list of "scumtells" and try to think what you did, how you did, what not, and which are the differences with seb ? Id appreciate if you make this analysis...

[dejkha]

Since you ask for a comparison

0. Not reading carefully

- Not a very relevant thing yet, but scummies tend to read less than townies, as they dont need to find the scum.

I've read everything so far. It was mostly because a lot of it was directed at me, at least at first anyway.

1. Wagoning where most people is smelling just to be part of the mass.

- Wagons Mirth
- When he sees it is a mistake, wagons me

I didn't do it just because Mirth wasn't "popular" though.

2. Justifying by lieing

- When he defends in front of Mirth accusation, he says that he agrees with the points made my people.
- But obviously, he voted for Mirth without reading the thread and jumped over her. Only after reading the thread he realized there was some smelling over me and jumped again. Just to be with the crowd, as he said, not because he agreed with the reasons !!

I didn't vote Mirth just to be with the crowd, but I personally agreed with your post that started all this near the beginning.

4. OMGUS reaction to Mirth.

- He fosses her as a consequence of her accusations, which are quite fair.
- The Fos is based on the false defense (3).

It seems to me like Mirth is having the OMGUS reaction. No offense Mirth, but you do seem to get pretty angry anytime anyone votes for you (and anytime someone so much as responds to something you say), whether its with a reason or not.

I'm gonna go ahead and

Unvote: Mirth

because even though she seems to be all over anyone defies her, I think that may because she's a townie. Maybe it's all just an act of scum, but I'll take my chances.

I seem to recall hearing we don't have to vote. Is that true, because I think I'll skip it this time around.

[seb456zig]

Well for starters

Unvote:dejkha

That was just sort of random suspicion to get discussion going. @chuck The only reason that i don't post much is that i do have to go to school (Unfortunately) and I do have a life.
Anyway on to suspicions, That was a very good point brought up by nureins.
Seb asked whether he could be modkilled so to make him look as if he is feeling guilty ... but then five minutes later he has changed his mind and is just going to watch things play out. Seems suspicious...

Vote:seb

Well would you suicide yourself just to give us one extra kill, which would most likely be another townie. I think that with L-2 i wont go to extremes but if i end up with L-1 it might just be an option.
Theres seven of us and two of them, getting it to six is bad for us percentage wise but it will prove my point. I dunno.
And if it only took two people to influence your vote and theres two mafia..., just putting two and two together (no pun intended) but yea. I dont mind dieing but i dont wanna die for the wrong reasons.

[seb456zig]

I seem to recall hearing we don't have to vote. Is that true, because I think I'll skip it this time around.

If that is true, i cooduve avoided evrything. Its too late now, btw where dija hear that?

[nureins]

@seb: announcing your own suicide is only a scumtell. If you were town, you would never, never vote yourself or ask mod for killing you. You would try to defend and try to explain how a townie (in that case, you) played as he did. Suiciding yourself would only help to the mafia...

So another scumtell to your list. Autovote (in this case, announcing suicide or asking mod to kill you)...

Can you explain to me how you would help town by suiciding yourself ?
You are at L-2, and avacado vote was correct IMO. We are pressuring you and observing your reactions, and yet you have to do your townie task...we are waiting...

[nureins]

I've read everything so far. It was mostly because a lot of it was directed at me, at least at first anyway.

Good. Correct and You dont hide that youve read mainly coz it is about you...

I didn't do it just because Mirth wasn't "popular" though.

But not far away...what you did was partially scummy, though you already admitted your point somehow and reacted more or less properly. But notice how much you have waited for unvoting...this is not positive and yet I have you up in my list.

It seems to me like Mirth is having the OMGUS reaction. No offense Mirth, but you do seem to get pretty angry anytime anyone votes for you (and anytime someone so much as responds to something you say), whether its with a reason or not.

I also have this impression. But seems to me is something about her personality. I would need to meta her a lot for that, but given I have not scum vibes from her, Ill just park it now...

I seem to recall hearing we don't have to vote. Is that true, because I think I'll skip it this time around.

Only scummies and very very noob ones ask for no-lynch in first round...
Im yet trying to decide what you are, but the fact that you ask for a no-lynch when seb456 is showing his scumness so openly is very suspicious to me...


Mantain my vote and my Fos. But want to hear the lurkers a bit before conforming a serious idea...

[seb456zig]

Thats why i reconsidered it. I mean if lynching is our only weapon, (accept for Cops and Docs) why should we waste it on a person that doesn't completely understand the concept of the game.
My current aim or goal is to get the suspicion off of me, then I'll try my hardest to remove the mafia.
Why don't you see suicide as a good option for me.

[nureins]

@seb: the pressure on you is not because you "had to vote". Most players here have already voted. Read my case on you, there you can find many reasons that probably Mirth and Avacado share right now...

[Serous]

I leave for a while and this happens

[seb456zig]

I read through that, and understand how i went wrong.
Nureins, I cant help but feel that u both OMGUSed me and WAGONed me as well.
I mean if I was mafia it would make complete sense, but seeing as I'm not (and only THREE people know that btw) I cant see the point in pointing at me.
I don't think you are mafia but i don't want to change my vote again, its just gonna get me to L-1, or worse.
Anyway I wanna know why you don't want me to suicide but to just be lynched. I really don't wanna die by lynch, because that would mean i had no say in the matter.
It's pretty obvious that if I don't do anything, I'm gonna die.