Shell Game (Day 3)

[Hermit Crab]

@Luke, I haven’t seen Cabd post in the morning EST at all this game in pretty sure, so I don’t think it’s AI he didn’t respond

[morph the cat]

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

From prior experience, yes

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

From prior experience, yes

heh!

Reading through the Pooky/Bingle stuff has reminded me of how I reacted to Bingle's play early day one of Yggdrasil. Everything he posted was scummy to me, and as it came out he was intentionally being scummy as an inno child. I don't intend to get into bitch-eating-crackers mode with him this game.

I think I've been expressing my observations and reactions in widely generalized terms. It's kind of where my head is at so far. Anyway the part of Bingle's posts that I think hold some truths or half-truths aren't about the 3rd party claim. I believe there probably is a 3rd party, maybe more than one, but I expect most players are at least entertaining the possibility just due to the size of the player list. I'm totally agnostic about Bingle being 3rd party, and don't really care for now.

The comments (including Sunflower's) about the possibility of a hood membership shuffling role or roles resonate, and in fact Bingle's posts about it being contingent on not voting (in some way, not necessarily the blanket way he presented over a few posts) resonates.

My quoting both Bingle and Sunflower in my vote-post may look like I think they share alignment. I don't explicitly think that.

I do think that scum either would have a hood membership manipulation ability or at the very least have hard knowledge that a mechanic of that sorts exists, not just speculation.

I was kinda hoping to come back to a cabd response, but alas

It was a little early for Cabd to be making an appearance based on when he's been showing up so far this game.

So heres the thing, I had some cracking worries on morph, but still thought town, and it all kinda ramped up quickly last night.

I hated cabd's peanut gallery -> Typing out all of the things that had worried me actually strengthened them I wrote them -> And then I did not like ffery's response.

In particular her comments about the "engaging with me on my read" which felt like her general mindset of engaging with me is not what her general mindset I associate with town!ffery.

This may surprise you but my reads are fluctuating a lot this game, so I'm more interested in absorbing what others think than in pushing my reads. I took pooky's comments about wine society to heart, though, and decided to use my vote with less conviction than I generally do.

As a final note, sleeping (rather restlessly) over my engagement with Dannflor has smashed some of the things that concerned me in the first place. I haven't meta'd anything recent, and I'm kinda hesitant to do so because cold meta is really poor substitute for experiential meta. I'm very likely to scan a few games anyway.

And, speaking of bitch-eating-crackers mode. I think that's where I'm at with Sunflower and I need to chill for a while and reset.

unvote:

If I were going to put another vote right back down, I'd put it on cakez. I await the catchup and reengagement.

[morph the cat]

huh. I misplaced part of the quotes I wanted to reply to.

Skitter, yes, it was me who made the post with the votecount quote.

[Lukewarm]

wait what even are the points on morph as scum?

Spoiler:

1

Lack of methodological approach.

This is again what drew my attention to you super early in the game, where you appeared to miss the context of pooky's readlist.

It resurfaced with your Sunflower vote in 2099, where:

(1) you used sunflower's comment on hoods being swapped around against him, despite several other people having voiced the same theory, and him not being the the first one to say it. Even in the post you quoted, fire said that he "still" thinks that hood swapping makes sense, indicating that there was a prior discussion about the topic, but you did not follow up on that.

(2) you missed an entire page of people stating that Bingle's claim looked like a joke, and you simply took it at face value. Like, in order for you to make the claim in 2099, it would necessitate you having missed every single one of these posts?

Spoiler:

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

VOTE: Marcistar

U just said u can't vote!

U just said u can't vote!

No I didn’t.

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote

That doesn’t say I can’t vote.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait, hold on, this is actually a thing?

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Bingle, you're the main character

I thought Bingle was joking.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait how do you know there are hoods plural?

p-edit: oh, maybe

i thought bingle was very definitely joking

I think bingle has never told a joke in mafia game ever.

p-edit: oh, maybe

I was not sure what to think about the claim, but yeah him voting 2 posts later made me assume that the claim was a joke.

]

2

Your interaction with me over my reads

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious. Those are the ones I'm mulling. Do you need me to prioritize getting back to you on it? I was going to wait until we have a chance to sync on new data first.

You feeling like you need to talk to cabd, before you could talk to me about my reads seems very out of character for how I think of town!ffery.

Like, our game experience, once you decided that I was town, we have literally started our own in thread neighborhood to work through our thoughts, and that came across as you being hesitant to just chat with me on my throughts despite having me as one of your strongest town reads.

And once you did respond to them with 2084, is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences. You just kinda *pointed* at places where we differed.

3

Our conversation about time stamps

I feel like my posts about your history of timestamps resulted in you posting on the back foot. Like you did not know where it was going, and that worried you.

It actually gave me the opposite vibes of our interaction where I original town read you, because it felt almost like you were worried that it was leading to a read shift from me. It seemed like you wanted to enagage with me to keep a tabs on it, but didn't know the right steps to take because it was an unexpected conversation. And you basically came out and said that it was distracting to you

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

4

Minor ping

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

This post felt off.

It did not feel like it was engaging in a way to substantiate a new point, but just to egg on my thoughts. Strengthen my read. But still let the point be originating from me.

5

Cabd's recent interjections

Spoiler: relevant cabd posts

Null is always where scum puts morph when we are approaching UTR status.

Calling us scum puts a bunch of heat on from the rest of the folks town reading us and makes them effort a case.

Calling us town means admitting that we have legitimate concerns and having to more directly address and tango.

But calling our well over there hundred posts "null" means having to do neither of those things until forced from a different impetus and allows status quo riding along.

Sunflower won't case me but if they are town and genuinely scum reading me they think it's perfectly fine to let scum me have thread control for two whole game days. Lol nope.

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

I mean if you're town and I'm scum it's called playing to your win condition.

You're once again more worried about the consequences and fallout of pushing me than you are actually wanting to protect the town from a scary deepwolf.

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

I know that cabd knows that you should not step in the way of a line of questioning, but he did it anyways. And the way that he did it does feel kinda bad faith as dann said. Or as I said

this would look a lot like you were trying to get ahead of anything sunflower might have to say, both to demoralize him and to discredit anything he did decide to put out.

That series of posts does set cabd up to either:

If Fireisredsir does not make a case, say "see, I told you he wouldn't do it," or
If fireisredsir does make a case say "He had to put it out there because of my posts saying that its a scum claim not to"

VOTE: morph

I reserve the right to feel differently in the morning.

So heres the thing, I had some cracking worries on morph, but still thought town, and it all kinda ramped up quickly last night.

I hated cabd's peanut gallery -> Typing out all of the things that had worried me actually strengthened them I wrote them -> And then I did not like ffery's response.

In particular her comments about the "engaging with me on my read" which felt like her general mindset of engaging with me is not what her general mindset I associate with town!ffery.

[Lukewarm]

@Luke, I haven’t seen Cabd post in the morning EST at all this game in pretty sure, so I don’t think it’s AI he didn’t respond

I didn't think that it was.

It was disappointment, not shade.

[Lukewarm]

This may surprise you but my reads are fluctuating a lot this game, so I'm more interested in absorbing what others think than in pushing my reads. I took pooky's comments about wine society to heart, though, and decided to use my vote with less conviction than I generally do.

I still dont think that you identified what my problem with your engagement with my reads was.

[morph the cat]

This may surprise you but my reads are fluctuating a lot this game, so I'm more interested in absorbing what others think than in pushing my reads. I took pooky's comments about wine society to heart, though, and decided to use my vote with less conviction than I generally do.

I still dont think that you identified what my problem with your engagement with my reads was.

Probably not. I know my engagement IS different, though. It's just not outside my wheelhouse, especially when not firing on all cylinders.

I do feel like I'm not being explainy enough, hence my deeper dive into my thoughts about Bingle and his claim this morning.

[morph the cat]

Also, why do you think scum-me wouldn't be on high alert trying to figure out what I wasn't doing that set you off?

[Cephrir]

VC 1.8

SirCakez 4 (Hermit, CSF, Firebagel, Firebringer)
Gypyx 2 (Dannflor, Penguin)
Sunflower 2 (Klick, Spiffeh)
Firebringer 1 (Brian Skies)
STD 1 (Pooky)
Dannflor 1 (STD)
marcistar 1 (Bingle)
Firebagel 1 (Dunnstral)
Pooky 1 (SirCakez)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)
morph 1 (Lukewarm)
CSF 1 (Sunflower)

Not voting (Oblivion, marcistar, experience, Shello, morph)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to burn at the stake.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-09 04:07:00)

[Cephrir]

Gypyx has been prodded.

[Hermit Crab]

I sat down and fell asleep in 5 minutes. I needed it

Tonight, then

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sir cakez towny wagon

[Lukewarm]

Your two responses:

Spoiler:

I was more interested in understanding your thoughts and seeing where we differed than I was in convincing you I was right.

This may surprise you but my reads are fluctuating a lot this game, so I'm more interested in absorbing what others think than in pushing my reads.

At no point did I say that I expected you to be "pushing your reads" or "convincing me that you are right" This is what I actually said :

is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences

You are professing me to be one of your strongest town reads, and that I am one of your stakes in the ground this game, that you are more interested in "understanding my thoughts" and "absorbing what others think,"

But when I gave you reads, and there were things that we disagreed with you basically just pointed at the things that we differed on, and moved on.

It was missing the probing questions. The attempts to allow yourself to "see what luke sees" and to help me see what you see. It lacked the bite. It lacked the attempt to get us to be on the same page (whether that end up being agreeing with your original position or mine).

[Bingle]

It has plans to return its focus here but it is feeling less than 100%. While it heals is there anything it should put its focus onto?

I feel like your perspective on pooky/me, morph/me, and fb in general are all worth sharing.

[Lukewarm]

If I nailed you guys with this read, I will be insufferable in the post game.

If I am wrong, I will be claiming that I never believe it that much anyways

[morph the cat]

Challenging you would be pushing my reads and concept of the gamestate. :/

And once again, I am NOT settled into a groove here. And if I were playing this game in a way to get more quickly settled our postcount would be considerably higher than it already is. 48 hours ago I felt like I was stifling the game by poking at EVERYTHING. We intentionally stepped back and started giving the game 8-12 hour breaks from both of us.

[morph the cat]

If I nailed you guys with this read, I will be insufferable in the post game.

If I am wrong, I will be claiming that I never believe it that much anyways

I will go out of my way to see you don't soon live this down, actually!

[Lukewarm]

I don't feel like you normally walk into that conversation trying to convince me. So maybe we are using "challenging me" differently.

But I am already prepared to back down for the day.

[morph the cat]

I engaged your list of reads that kinda started this whole thing, and that post was purely my thoughts + both halves had synced on earlier.

Aside from apparently hating that post, was there anything you wanted me to go deeper on? Anything YOU wanted to challenge?

Maybe you've done this already. If so, point out your post?

(I've been low-key griping about server side cookies all game. It's usually not much of a pain, but it's adding to my cognitive load in this game)

[Save The Dragons]

Std or pengy?

Wow

[Lukewarm]

I don't think that there is anything that I need to discuss right now.

I am still open to a cabd response, but I am currently most interested in seeing where you guys go from here.

So that is more wait and see.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Luke I still think my cat is town but it's too late in the evening for me to properly read your post and then go back over the context to make sure I understand it but I promise you I will do it at some point when I have time.

Pooky did this ever happen?

not yet :3

srry im a procrastinator by nature

[Save The Dragons]

The game is a lot if weird discussions that don't really mean much to the people not involved

It's hard to assert myself like I typically can.

[Gypyx]

hello the mod asked me to post

i'll try to do that in a few mins

[morph the cat]

Luke, I've deleted my first two responses under the Thumper Rule.

Suffice to say I've been through this ringamarole from you in Bloodstained and I'm not subjecting myself to it again.

I have no desire to discuss this further for game health reasons.