Shell Game (Day 3)

[Dunnstral]

I'm reading through Oblivion posts and I am confused about them continuously referencing me. My impression is that they were way back in the thread, around page 7 or so, but they keep making references to me and I'm not sure where there read on me is coming from. And then they talk about Spiffeh in relation to me and I believe that is way ahead in the thread.

Also sort of confused as to where their initial suspicion on me came from.

[Dunnstral]

You're voting him. Apparently based on the miller thing. Is there more?

Well I think the timeline of events makes it sus unless i am misunderstanding how things went.
I think actiondan was saying CSF before the outing of neighborhood, miller doesn't make sense until dan found out that there is cops. He then went to "that doesn't make sense with the creativity of game, which is weird for him to say imo because that implies understanding the game setup in some deeper way or what cephrir would design. Both seem fishy to me.

I also just think actiondan is the least townie of that whole neighborhood.

I agree that the timeline here has not been fully explained

[Dunnstral]

You're voting him. Apparently based on the miller thing. Is there more?

Well I think the timeline of events makes it sus unless i am misunderstanding how things went.
I think actiondan was saying CSF before the outing of neighborhood, miller doesn't make sense until dan found out that there is cops. He then went to "that doesn't make sense with the creativity of game, which is weird for him to say imo because that implies understanding the game setup in some deeper way or what cephrir would design. Both seem fishy to me.

I also just think actiondan is the least townie of that whole neighborhood.

i feel this make less sense when i reread it.

No it does. Or at least it's on the right track. See 888. Maybe we are talking about slightly different things, and I ended up voting for Sunflower/Klick over ActionDan regardless of noticing this as I said I'm not sure it's a smoking gun.

[Dunnstral]

What makes you think that I have any scumreads aside from Sunflower?

In post 371 you agree that strikethroughs are your townreads and bolded names are your scumreads/concerns.

You also clearly split up your list.

Additional context that readers might want to know:

I find value in it being ambiguous. I like to experiment with different methods of expressing my thoughts on the game. I also enjoy extracting information out of how people engage with different levels of ambiguity vs straightforwardness. I often find that some people's assumptions about things like that are pretty closely attached to alignment.

I'll occasionally shift how willing I am to highlight someone in one direction or another just to try it out and see what will happen

And it's that way in part to avoid people trying to get little gotchas by interpreting things however suits their agenda, instead of trying to understand.

OK. My answer for "why do I think that" is because you presented it that way, intentionally. So I'm not really sure where you were going with this.

[Dunnstral]

There is a third hood

Just two that we are aware of.

[Gypyx]

goddamnit

[Hermit Crab]

Controversial opinion: I don’t think the mouse is as scummy as everyone else is saying, and most of the reads there seem based off of pre flip associatives.

I reserve the right to say this was a joke if he’s actually scum.

Chuck Rab

[Spiffeh]

Do you feel that anyone is pushing me disingenuously?

[Hermit Crab]

The one that irked me the most was sunflower, although that is susceptible of the bias from being in my dethy PoE.

[Spiffeh]

How do you feel about Brian’s catch-up? He is probably my most confident scum read atm

[Hermit Crab]

Also not fantastic, also very easily worth a vote. But I will say I am very enticed by the concept of a four man masonry.

[Spiffeh]

IMO the move is to proceed with this Day phase business-as-usual, push who we want to push, and allow the dethy folks to talk about dethy stuff in the comfort of their own hood outside of the thread. They should also be participating in the main thread so the rest of us can make an informed decision on who we eliminate to increase our odds at hitting the scum and locking in the masonry.

For example, STD is supposedly a beacon of Towniness in that hood if the rest of their reads are to be believed, but he has done next to nothing in the thread. If we are really hitching our wagon to the potential four-person masonry, we would need STD (and Klick and ActionDan to a lesser extent) to actually provide some readable content in the thread. Because NOT hitting the scum in that group after wasting a whole day talking about it would be disastrous.

What I don't want to happen is for us to twiddle our thumbs and talk in circles about the same three people when there are four scum outside the neighborhood that we still need to find.

(this is why neighborhoods are trash)

[Hermit Crab]

So, other than Brian, who else do you think needs more scrutiny? Obviously we are missing a third of our own neighborhood at this point, so that goes without saying.

[Spiffeh]

I have thoughts regarding Firebringer that I'm sitting on for the moment. I am eager for his promised rereads/effort today.

I am not feeling great about Ydrasse so I'd love some more focused attention there, and I want skitter to come play.

Cat Scratch Fever, PenguinPower, Dannflor have been completely lost in the shuffle for me, but I'm hoping to rectify that when I reread

[Shello and Goodbye]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

Who are you sub tweeting here?

spiffeh and morph mostly

i think there was a third that made it feel like a pattern but idr who

Have you considered that I was using my admittedly flimsy meta read on Ydra as an entry point to engage with her and see if others felt the same way as me about the things that DO bother me?

(I recognize this is an unfair thing to assume that you would catch, but the above is approximately 40% of the reason I presented that post in the way that I did!)

Also which of the two of us are "doing it as town"?

I kinda think ActionDan is Town?

Does he really continue to double down on the miller thing as scum when it’s clearly rubbing people the wrong way and worsening his already vulnerable position?

spiffeh this wa mostly what i was talking about for how you felt defensive in the first post and in the second for your tone (i don’t think i explicitly said this) feeling a bit insincere at times - it’s like you’re going WOW guys i can’t BELIEVE this. film students first acting moment sort of vibes lol

i’m not feeling this as much this morning though. i don’t know if you were wolf if you would keep after me so much and so specifically. i think wolves can have pet projects that make them look busy but idk right now i think you’re maybe being sincere about your concerns @ me

[Shello and Goodbye]

also you shall remain skitterless for now

[Klick]

i think that town!klick is capable of finding scum!me. he did it very well recently

i think regardless of alignment he knows that he doesn't have reason to think im scum here

the difference is that i think if he's town he would also know that if we're both town there's a decent chance we can find each other. the fact that he doesn't have reason to think im scum would make him doubt. im on the other side here, not fully confident that klick is scum, and that makes me question AD and marci

the way that his reads on AD and marci progressed from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence isn't supported and just isn't really believable to me coming from town!klick

this is what i mean by calling the play positional. i think that those reads became solidified out of necessity and not out of justified reason. and i don't think that's how town!klick plays

The thing I find most concerning about you personally is that your descriptions of my play don't match up with how I think of my own play at all.

Like the thing just now about going from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence on marci and STD (not ActionDan, I don’t think that matches my progression there?). I... do stuff like that all the time? When I have a reason to think someone is town, I tend towards hard-committal. I think that's one of my defining traits as a player.

My concern is that you're taking uncharitable interpretations of my actions, because pushing me early and getting me out of the way is exactly how I think scum!you would want to approach this situation.

But I am having doubts about you currently, mostly stemming from thinking 0-scum is kind of plausible

[Shello and Goodbye]

do you think what is presumably a dethy wouldn’t have wolves

[Klick]

Isn't it like a trope amongst Shell Games to take the shell away

[Hermit Crab]

So you’re telling us that the mod created 5 players neighborhood with all town with some sort of role with questionable sanity, declared that if the mafia still exists in the neighborhood at a predetermined point mafia will get an advantage, and expect town to not believe it and move on? Especially after throwing in the urgency of time?

Naw

-Herr Mitt

[ActionDan]

Just fire, and to answer him it is unnecessary.

I am not the arbiter of why scum would claim Miller after ascetic, only that it does not fit the setup as I see it.

What was your view on the setup when you doubted the miller claim?

I was close to certain we had 4 cops on a cycle of reliabilites plus one scum of some sort (cop inventor or not)

Pedit. I believe I contemporaneously more or less figured out the setup when the Miller was claimed from memory.

Was the bolded a cause and effect, as in my miller claim jolted an "aha!" moment about the hood for you?

This question is more for the other members of the hood, but I also recall ActionDan said there was "0 or 1" scum in the hood. When did that happen in the hood, and does the timing line up with his narrative here? like after he saw my claim, did he continue to push the possibility of 0 scum in the hood?

Contemporaneously in this context means in the same session of reading. I had firmly come to the conclusion of multiple cops before encountering your claim. 0 or 1 was an immediate reaction before game even started.

I've thought more about the conditions imposed. Scum has to be able to give cops out as the rest of do. Otherwise the game breaks. Not completely important but it would make sense to give the scum player a choice as to the reliability of the cop they give. I don't think scum need to be told the exact circumstances of the hood, that degrades the little skill there is in figuring it out.

I will also assume the scum boon to surviving to day X is no worse for town than granting a factional 1 shot anytime usable vig

So two things

1. Morph since you have some experience, how long would it take to figure out reliabilites practically using the miller claim as calibration given the circumstances?

2. If scum are not specifically told, and they didn't figure out the setup from their role alone, I continue to think Sunflower just can't be scum. Whatever people think about Std's reactions, I think aside from sunflowers crumbs there is a racoon meme that really speaks to me of Sunflower having an uninformed mind as the meme comes so early. It is an "offering" to assuage us (me) of the weirdness of her crumbs.

I don't really think Klick would chain himself to putting Sunflower below myself on his reads list. I know he crossed my name out originally and perhaps there is some deference that a scum klick would need to give to that but it would be far easier to side with others that would seek to lim me, and I also think it would vastly strengthen his own position.

Incidentally I don't know what a "Cred trade" is. Is that cashing in on credit later by guessing correctly now a soon to flip players alignment?

StD's hood posts are natural enough, and his revelations did come with his unvote of me. This isnt impossible to fake. This would have been well past the very very short window scum *might* not have figured out the setup . I would like to know why he initially voted me.


Marci.

This kind of player is anathema to me. She projects an aura of incompetentance when I dont think she really is and injects her posts with being LOUD. 481, why unvote me. Original vote was made for mechanical reasons.

Work calls. Post more later. Still developing reads

[Klick]

So you’re telling us that the mod created 5 players neighborhood with all town with some sort of role with questionable sanity, declared that if the mafia still exists in the neighborhood at a predetermined point mafia will get an advantage, and expect town to not believe it and move on? Especially after throwing in the urgency of time?

Naw

-Herr Mitt

No, I don't expect Ceph expects us to move on from it

The question is whether Ceph would make this game explicitly to punish the dirty setup speccers

[Shello and Goodbye]

klick can you explain your sunflower read since you’re doubting it now but it also looks like it was your one wolfread beyond the neighborhood (i think)?

[Shello and Goodbye]

i think i’d find it bizarre personally if there’s not a wolf in the hood and seeing you being kind of poe’d in it and trying to suggest a 0 world is a little ? to me i guess

[Gypyx]

also you shall remain skitterless for now

skitterless sounds like an insult 14 year olds would throw at each other