Shell Game (Day 3)

[Hermit Crab]

Sure, and I’m sure morph will tease me if I’m incorrect.

You are town and a player claims a guitly against you, how do you react?

I’m much more likely to leverage my towncred and try to strong arm them down (basically put it in a situation of who is townier)? I’d say morph also would try their best to survive, but would focus more on showing why the other person is scum. although both of us are very aware that a one for one trade is perfectly fine and would shrug.

[morph the cat]

Oh boy. It has the sense it is going to struggle with the speed of this game. It will begin to read at this moment, from where it left off, but if users had questions for it sufficient it could engage with them and begin mental modelling it would strongly prefer live interaction to combing through 30 pages.

Word. I just spent like two hours reading to get caught up.

I have some concerns about the setup and how everyone is just accepting that a hood is set up a particular way, given that this game is literally called "shell game" and the mod clearly knows what that is.

Well, a deAAAthy is in and of itself, a shell game, of sorts. Hence the thematic. I'm sure the other hood has a different sort of fuckery ready for us.

[Oblivion]

Sure, and I’m sure morph will tease me if I’m incorrect.

You are town and a player claims a guitly against you, how do you react?

I’m much more likely to leverage my towncred and try to strong arm them down (basically put it in a situation of who is townier)? I’d say morph also would try their best to survive, but would focus more on showing why the other person is scum. although both of us are very aware that a one for one trade is perfectly fine and would shrug.

Interesting. Thank you! It has a better understanding of your mental model now!

[Oblivion]

it is going to try and go understand what Dethy means

[Hermit Crab]

Since Marci came out and just said it yeah...

A deathy is a five player neighborhood with the following details:

1 scum (tradition makes this a traitor but doesn't have to be)
4 town cops of unknown sanity (they don't know their own sanity, just the possibilities)

Now we go through the list of five people in that hood looking for possible traitor signals!

@oblivion

[morph the cat]

it is going to try and go understand what Dethy means

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Dethy

[Hermit Crab]

If you notice, the wiki page is explicitly lacking any extraneous letters.

[Oblivion]

And so it is confirmed that within that neighbourhood this is the setup that exists? Or this is speculation? Also, to which players does this refer?

[Hermit Crab]

And so it is confirmed that within that neighbourhood this is the setup that exists? Or this is speculation? Also, to which players does this refer?

Marcistar, Sunflower (look dad I learned), Klick, SaveTheDragobs, ActionDan.

[Oblivion]

huh. Allow it to process.

[Oblivion]

If this is true and matches the link given exactly... it would assume the best play would to be look anywhere but within those 5 today. Two cops whose results can actually be interpreted for results, with time and flips and two that can't? Makes little sense to do scum's work for them.

So let that resolve as it goes and simply look elsewhere to kill today?

[morph the cat]

@5 person hood, can ideally two of you independently ask the mod if your sanity flips on death, and report back?

[Hermit Crab]

If this is true and matches the link given exactly... it would assume the best play would to be look anywhere but within those 5 today. Two cops whose results can actually be interpreted for results, with time and flips and two that can't? Makes little sense to do scum's work for them.

So let that resolve as it goes and simply look elsewhere to kill today?

But if we kill the scum, we essentially have a four person masonry scum has to clear through.

[Oblivion]

If this is true and matches the link given exactly... it would assume the best play would to be look anywhere but within those 5 today. Two cops whose results can actually be interpreted for results, with time and flips and two that can't? Makes little sense to do scum's work for them.

So let that resolve as it goes and simply look elsewhere to kill today?

But if we kill the scum, we essentially have a four person masonry scum has to clear through.

Is that worth doing when we can simply treat the base group as a masonry REGARDLESS especially if it includes a traitor and not a scum who can even inform, allow the neighbourhood to police itself and garner results based on night results?

It is aware this is Shell Game and so relying TOO much on results isn't a good idea, given action interuption likelyhoods but even to start it thinks that if we remove 5 players and look at a 17 player game, it thinks there's 3 or 4 scum within that right? 4/17 is better odds than 1/5, 3/17 is comperable, so we're not actually increasing odds and we're losing possible value.

That is its takeaway.

[Oblivion]

@5 person hood, can ideally two of you independently ask the mod if your sanity flips on death, and report back?

Mmm, this would be good info to have, it agrees.

[Hermit Crab]

Morph, you two have more experience with this than me. Thoughts?

[Firebagel]

Oh boy. It has the sense it is going to struggle with the speed of this game. It will begin to read at this moment, from where it left off, but if users had questions for it sufficient it could engage with them and begin mental modelling it would strongly prefer live interaction to combing through 30 pages.

Word. I just spent like two hours reading to get caught up.

I have some concerns about the setup and how everyone is just accepting that a hood is set up a particular way, given that this game is literally called "shell game" and the mod clearly knows what that is.

Well, a deAAAthy is in and of itself, a shell game, of sorts. Hence the thematic. I'm sure the other hood has a different sort of fuckery ready for us.

I'm not at all familiar with a dethy so I'm maybe not understanding how it plays out, but I don't get where the shell game aspect comes in if it's just exactly what's expected. It doesn't feel like the hood being thought of as a dethy really even changes how we'd see the alignment of its players. We expect one in the five to be scum regardless.

[Oblivion]

Oh boy. It has the sense it is going to struggle with the speed of this game. It will begin to read at this moment, from where it left off, but if users had questions for it sufficient it could engage with them and begin mental modelling it would strongly prefer live interaction to combing through 30 pages.

Word. I just spent like two hours reading to get caught up.

I have some concerns about the setup and how everyone is just accepting that a hood is set up a particular way, given that this game is literally called "shell game" and the mod clearly knows what that is.

Well, a deAAAthy is in and of itself, a shell game, of sorts. Hence the thematic. I'm sure the other hood has a different sort of fuckery ready for us.

I'm not at all familiar with a dethy so I'm maybe not understanding how it plays out, but I don't get where the shell game aspect comes in if it's just exactly what's expected. It doesn't feel like the hood being thought of as a dethy really even changes how we'd see the alignment of its players. We expect one in the five to be scum regardless.

From its understsanding, because the scum know that everyone is a cop, that scum will also claim a cop result of a questionable sanity, and because players know not their sanities (it thinks?) then it becomes a puzzle of "if, then" that one can possibly follow, but only with 1 wrong elimination to give, and thus only one night of results to use to begin with?

So.... shell game of what to believe and what is real and what is fake and such. If it understands correctly.

[Firebagel]

If this is true and matches the link given exactly... it would assume the best play would to be look anywhere but within those 5 today. Two cops whose results can actually be interpreted for results, with time and flips and two that can't? Makes little sense to do scum's work for them.

So let that resolve as it goes and simply look elsewhere to kill today?

I approve of this line of thought.

[Lukewarm]

There is a lot to dive into here, but this post has a very interesting mentality. It is going to take a few guesses which have every possibility to be wrong, but you come across as paranoid or afraid here. How can it explain... like if you were staring down the barrel of something you have a healthy fear and respect for arguing that another thing in the distance isn't being given enough respect or concern for its threat either?

I have no idea what you are saying here, at least in how it relates to me?

My approach to Morph started at mild suspicion at ffery's response to pooky's, but wanted to get them to talk more about that reaction before making that obvious, with a lighthearted / inquisitive tone for 129.

When ffery first sidestepped the question, I decided to make it more direct that I thought that her answer could prove valuable to me, to pivot us back to my question 287.

When she sidestepped again, I realized that I was not getting the answer that I wanted, and so I decided to just lay some of the foundation of why I started asking questions 317 to force a dialogue.

Her response was to keep asking me probing questions about what I was getting at. At that point I figured I simply wasn't going to get a straight answer, so I laid it out there that I thought it might mean she was scum 326.

And then cabd and ffery both promptly declared me town, and ffery gave me a straight answer (although a fairly unsatisfactory one) 334.

I realized that she had uno reverse carded me, and even though I had started the conversation trying to get a better feel for her alignment, her entire focus during that conversation was to gauge the thoughts behind my line of questioning to determine my alignment. And she is the one who got what she wanted.

After thinking about it for a while, I ended up thinking that that seems like a town mindset, because it looks like she was more worried about divining my alignment then she cared about how I read her at any stage of our dialogue.

Can you elaborate on what your mental model of Morph and Pooky as players are is? For reference, that is simply how you view their playstyles, capabilities, talents, failings and such, and your confidence level in being able to interpret them for a correct result a % of the time with this knowledge.

This is a fairly loaded set of questions, that I don't really know how to answer, other then to just say that I think all three are really good players, as both alignments.

[morph the cat]

The scum in the deathy has to play a shell game where they have to pick a faked alignment, and stick to it. While constantly trying NOT to be narrowed down into a 1v1 vs whoever actually has their assigned sanity.

This plays out like the mafia in the deathy is going for a shell game, they want to last as long as possible with misdireciton and ambiguity. The more sleights of hand and "mist" you can get away with, the better your long term odds, but in the end you WILL die, so you're playing for maximum chaos agent while alive knowing you cannot endgame.


...Not sure if everyone thinks of mafia in those terms but I do.

[Hermit Crab]

That’s roughly my expectation.

[morph the cat]

Essentially....

I've tasted the sweet nectar of a living deAAAthy masonry, and the second chance is just as addicting.

[morph the cat]

Oblivion do you have any questions for us?

[morph the cat]

Well, WE have. Spay was inside of it, I was outside of it but we linked up and had a romp of an adventure along with her three bestest friends.