Mini Normal 2333 | woah that's a lot of 3's | It's Gypover !
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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honestly it's not that much work
it just kinda doubles the writing i have to do, which is a bit annoying on mobile but on PC it's greatWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (11/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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i will try to do it in my white flag game coming up, hopefully that will compensate for the setup being historically scumsided !White Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (11/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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One note on that is that I really, really think you should stop treating vanilla checks as clears. If you do, you basically entrust the winner of the game to "luck" by whether a goon or a VT gets "cleared". I know that you got lucky in the past and was checked as vanilla when you were a VT but even in Large Normal 246, there was a goon alive when that happened and the confirmed vanilla was not a confirmed green check.In post 1624, Hu Tao wrote: In retrospect I only realized that vanilla cop was mostly a negative role for us. But I wouldn't have thought that without knowing the setup. I guess if Brian was checked instead of enchant it would have worked out for town though. Came down to luck on who was checked really.Last edited by DragonEater70 on Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I don't really think the vote history being in VCs matters too much
skilled town players will already be considering such things and skilled scum players will already be trying to manipulate such things
i guess it raises the skill floor a bit for both alignments?-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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the setup was fine, maybe scum is a tiny bit weak but still well within the realm of passing balance
it was a town misplay (including mine) to clear enchant off mechanical reasons
that being said, enchant had a good shot at winning elo without that-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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i guess it kinda encourages town to use these "more skillfull" methods, it's an active decision on their part though, i can kinda get the scum frustration in kinda being used to playing like usual and having another variable thrown at youIn post 1628, Dannflor wrote: I don't really think the vote history being in VCs matters too much
skilled town players will already be considering such things and skilled scum players will already be trying to manipulate such things
i guess it raises the skill floor a bit for both alignments?White Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (11/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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JacksonVirgo they/himSurvivorthey/him
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To be fair, in most worlds Enchant would have been Town just based of site meta and how it treats balance here. Triple goon with three ungated PRs (albeit weak) and then a FN/UB. The assumption that there has to be at least one wolf PR is generally a pretty solid one imo. I still feel that logic is correct even if this game it was wrong, this setup was designed in a way that it countered general site meta/balance assumptions and for a Normal that's probably notIn post 1627, DragonEater70 wrote: One note on that is that I really, really think you should stop treating vanilla checks as clears. If you do, you basically entrust the winner of the game to "luck" by whether a goon or a VT gets "cleared". I know that you got lucky in the past and was checked as vanilla when you were a VT but even in Large Normal 246, there was a goon alive when that happened and the confirmed vanilla was not a confirmed green check.idealbut it was a fun setup regardless except for that. In my opinion, I don't wanna shit on the setup (gypyx, u hella fine)-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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personally i think it's Good Actually if setups fuck with assumptions like that
mechanical assumptions like that are townplay crutches and towns should be punished for overly relying on them over dayplay-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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i don't think "making an overly townsided setup to teach people to not make mechnical assumptions" was one of my goals there but like, thanksWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (11/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I understand what you mean, but I doubt that the usual will be that scum will be all goons. But in the future I'd need to be weary and think of a case like this oneIn post 1627, DragonEater70 wrote:
One note on that is that I really, really think you should stop treating vanilla checks as clears. If you do, you basically entrust the winner of the game to "luck" by whether a goon or a VT gets "cleared". I know that you got lucky in the past and was checked as vanilla when you were a VT but even in Large Normal 246, there was a goon alive when that happened and the confirmed vanilla was not a confirmed green check.In post 1624, Hu Tao wrote: In retrospect I only realized that vanilla cop was mostly a negative role for us. But I wouldn't have thought that without knowing the setup. I guess if Brian was checked instead of enchant it would have worked out for town though. Came down to luck on who was checked really.-
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I agree with thisIn post 1632, Dannflor wrote: personally i think it's Good Actually if setups fuck with assumptions like that
mechanical assumptions like that are townplay crutches and towns should be punished for overly relying on them over dayplay-
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JacksonVirgo they/himSurvivorthey/him
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I agree, but not for a normalIn post 1632, Dannflor wrote: personally i think it's Good Actually if setups fuck with assumptions like that-
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JacksonVirgo they/himSurvivorthey/him
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People shouldn't rely on mech like this (ketchup would have an aneurysm here) yes, bit the fact it goes against the grain ofnormalcygoes against what I thought this queue was for, at least outside of the complex category-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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well, with the benefit of hindsight i think 3 goons is probably still well within the normal realm of balanceIn post 1633, Gypyx wrote: i don't think "making an overly townsided setup to teach people to not make mechnical assumptions" was one of my goals there but like, thanks
it's town sided but not so much that I don't understand why it passed review
i think a range of like 45-60% winrate is all fine and this might be closer to the high end but, like, that's fine-
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KayJayQueue She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
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Please kill me before elo from now on!In post 1635, Hu Tao wrote:
I agree with thisIn post 1632, Dannflor wrote: personally i think it's Good Actually if setups fuck with assumptions like that
mechanical assumptions like that are townplay crutches and towns should be punished for overly relying on them over dayplay-
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JacksonVirgo they/himSurvivorthey/him
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Though hun, I recommend at the very least waiting for all people to post in ELO and abandon all assumptions you've made, reassess why you're alive in ELO and what that means for who the final wolf isIn post 1639, KayJayQueue wrote:
Please kill me before elo from now on!In post 1635, Hu Tao wrote:
I agree with thisIn post 1632, Dannflor wrote: personally i think it's Good Actually if setups fuck with assumptions like that
mechanical assumptions like that are townplay crutches and towns should be punished for overly relying on them over dayplay-
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BlackStar he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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You mentioned earlier that you felt like people often kept you around until the end of the game because they thought you were likely to screw up. To me you just seemed like someone who was more willing to listen to other people’s opinions than some other players, so I thought you would at least be willing to hear me out. I don’t think that’s a bad quality at allIn post 1639, KayJayQueue wrote:
Please kill me before elo from now on!In post 1635, Hu Tao wrote:
I agree with thisIn post 1632, Dannflor wrote: personally i think it's Good Actually if setups fuck with assumptions like that
mechanical assumptions like that are townplay crutches and towns should be punished for overly relying on them over dayplay-
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BlackStar he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Also, sorry to everyone for being so annoying on my last day lol-
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BlackStar he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I thought this was interaction was interesting because you guys didn’t realize that you’d kind of solved the gameIn post 1293, Brian Skies wrote: My biggest issue right now pertains to the yessiree wagon. If Hu Tao and Titus are both town, then Kay and Enchant are the only potential bussers there.In post 1294, KayJayQueue wrote: I made the case against yessiree the day StraightFlush was voted out and immediately voted him again the next day phase. I don’t see how I’d be a potential busser in this case.-
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KayJayQueue She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
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I was worried that if Brian voted me when I wasn’t around, Enchant would hammer before I could respond. I was being paranoid. I trust no one. Ahhh I don’t like that position.In post 1640, JacksonVirgo wrote:
Though hun, I recommend at the very least waiting for all people to post in ELO and abandon all assumptions you've made, reassess why you're alive in ELO and what that means for who the final wolf isIn post 1639, KayJayQueue wrote:
Please kill me before elo from now on!In post 1635, Hu Tao wrote:
I agree with thisIn post 1632, Dannflor wrote: personally i think it's Good Actually if setups fuck with assumptions like that
mechanical assumptions like that are townplay crutches and towns should be punished for overly relying on them over dayplay-
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KayJayQueue She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
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The problem is that dann said it can’t be enchant. As our elected representative, I didn’t feel like I could go against his logic lolIn post 1643, BlackStar wrote: I thought this was interaction was interesting because you guys didn’t realize that you’d kind of solved the gameIn post 1293, Brian Skies wrote: My biggest issue right now pertains to the yessiree wagon. If Hu Tao and Titus are both town, then Kay and Enchant are the only potential bussers there.In post 1294, KayJayQueue wrote: I made the case against yessiree the day StraightFlush was voted out and immediately voted him again the next day phase. I don’t see how I’d be a potential busser in this case.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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tbf i was also running into the issue of not really believing it could be either brian or kjq based on play
sorry about the incorrect mechanical advice kjq-
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JacksonVirgo they/himSurvivorthey/him
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You had to kill him before he spoke, just like someone else we know ofIn post 1644, KayJayQueue wrote: I was worried that if Brian voted me when I wasn’t around, Enchant would hammer before I could respond. I was being paranoid. I trust no one. Ahhh I don’t like that position.-
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KayJayQueue She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
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It’s okay but I trust your assumptions more than my own uninformed guessing ability anyway. Even if this was a fluke, I’d still trust your over me if I can confirm you’re town lolIn post 1646, Dannflor wrote: tbf i was also running into the issue of not really believing it could be either brian or kjq based on play
sorry about the incorrect mechanical advice kjq-
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KayJayQueue She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
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In post 1647, JacksonVirgo wrote:
You had to kill him before he spoke, just like someone else we know ofIn post 1644, KayJayQueue wrote: I was worried that if Brian voted me when I wasn’t around, Enchant would hammer before I could respond. I was being paranoid. I trust no one. Ahhh I don’t like that position.
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