Open 92 - Vengeful Mafia (Game Over!) before 656

[forbiddanlight]

While I think Caboose has earned major scum points, you just earned bigger scum points for putting him at L-1 on page 2 with barely any conversation and no responses from him to the suspicion against him. There is absolutely no need to hurry as we're in LYLO from the getgo.

Yeah, and what happens if he's town? If someone hammers, he kills them. L-1 is a lot less dangerous here than it is anywhere else? I personally think he's scum or I wouldn't vote him, but still, as it turns out, we'll get our discussion, since townies would be foolish to hammer, and scum would be as well.

[Mirth]

I dont not understand most of your post but you're so sure he's scum on page 2? after only 2 posts from him?

[forbiddanlight]

I dont not understand most of your post but you're so sure he's scum on page 2? after only 2 posts from him?

How I play. If I think someone is scum, I present it as if I'm certain. It elicits easier gauged reactions because they know I'm serious. And to a degree I am. Caboose shouldn't try to play on uncertainty with me.

[Mirth]

And you shouldn't be certain from only 2 posts and less than 2 full pages.

[forbiddanlight]

And you shouldn't be certain from only 2 posts and less than 2 full pages.

Well, that's how things fall sometimes. I also highly doubt anyone will be quick to hammer this game. Putting him at L-1 is significantly less dangerous than it is in any other game.

[Caboose]

Course, thinking on it, scum would have to be moronic to

If someone hammers, he kills them.

So, you want me to use a vig kill on a likely townie?

Please explain.

[forbiddanlight]

So, you want me to use a vig kill on a likely townie?

Please explain.

I didn't express myself well there. If you are scum, then it's good for you to die. There's the fact that no one will hammer for a while though because of the possibility you are town. Because of that possiblity, scum would have to be foolish to hammer, but guess what? The only way you die if you AREN'T scum is if they hammer. Thusly, taking you to L-1 is a completely safe action.

[Mirth]

So, you want me to use a vig kill on a likely townie?

Please explain.

I didn't express myself well there. If you are scum, then it's good for you to die. There's the fact that no one will hammer for a while though because of the possibility you are town. Because of that possiblity, scum would have to be foolish to hammer, but guess what? The only way you die if you AREN'T scum is if they hammer. Thusly, taking you to L-1 is a completely safe action.

Both this post and Caboose's previous post are crap logic.

Caboose: how do you know who is a likely townie?

FL: the problem with the post is that it assumes scum will hammer. In this scenerio you are tacitly stating that both you and SSF must be town and that Farside and I must be scum if Caboose is town. (How else would scum hammer if not for this breakdown.) You have very little to base this reasoning on. For instance if one of the two players on the wagon is scum, the lynchee is town, then one of the non-wagoners must be town. Why can't the town player hammer just as likely as the scum player? You post just makes me more satisfied with my vote, though Caboose still keeps his FOS.

[forbiddanlight]

I forgot about SSF to be honest. I know I'm town...if SSF is scum I suppose you are right...

Unvote, FoS: Caboose

I got muddled.

[Mirth]

Thank you for continuing to make me happier with my vote by just claiming town after jumping on Caboose for doing it.

[somestrangeflea]

It was a joke.

I love how Mirth and somestangeflea are already ganging up on me for it, though.

Blatant misrepresentation. I clearly said that I

didn't

think your first post was scummy. You may wish to start saying things that are... you know... true.

I am a meanie. But you should know this already. This is our what, 5th game together? You couldnt possibly have come into this thinking I'd be nice.

In all seriousness now: so you dont think either of his posts warrant any suspicion in the least?

Not even the second one?

This is my second game with Caboose. We are currently in another game together so I don't know too much about him.
The only thing I do know in reading his comment I saw it as I want to shot someone. Seemed honest to me.
I know my first real role that wasnt' a vanilla townie and not mafia but an actual I get to do something role that was different I wanted to shout to all that I got a cool role. Now this game is interesting in the fact that you have 2 scum and 3 townies and only one townie gets to kill on day 1. After that you are just a townie. So for me it doesn't surprise me to see someone eager to use that ability.

Emphasis on Mirth's post mine.
I think farside dodged the question.

[Mirth]

SSF: what do you think of FL right now, since you seem to have ignored my altercation with her.

[forbiddanlight]

Thank you for continuing to make me happier with my vote by just claiming town after jumping on Caboose for doing it.

Wrong, I outright claimed town. Caboose implied it. There is indeed a difference. I'm really beginning to wonder if you might not be scum. You seem to be attacking anyone that posts. So, Mirth, why are you so sure I'm scum after barely 2 pages of discussion?

[Mirth]

Same thing. You had absolutely no reason to do it. In this game, there are no power roles. Thus everyone pretty much claims townie just by playing. There is no reason to outright say "I'm town." Caboose implied it, yes, but you had even less reason to claim (whether soft of not) than he did especially after he drew heat for it.

As to you wondering, I might be scum, I might not be scum, think what you will. And yes, I am attacking anyone that posts. I thought that you would have known that from WOMAFIA. As to being sure, I'm not sure yet, nowhere near as sure as you claimed to be right before abandoning your vote rather strangely, and, frankly, I hardly ever would so much as support a lynch before page 5, but you've been making me more convinced with your posts. Do I want you lynched right this second? No. Am I starting to be convinced that you would be a good lynch? Yes.

[forbiddanlight]

Same thing. You had absolutely no reason to do it. In this game, there are no power roles. Thus everyone pretty much claims townie just by playing. There is no reason to outright say "I'm town." Caboose implied it, yes, but you had even less reason to claim (whether soft of not) than he did especially after he drew heat for it.

Implication was scummy because it's trying to make someone subconciously believe it. Direct claim isn't as scummy, espeically since I really wasn't intending to "claim", so to speak. I was working out things in my head.

And is the unvote really that strange? I kinda forgot the fact I was depending on SSF to be town for L-1 to be safe. I said as much, and recanted because it was obviously not as safe as I thought. Now I find you and Caboose suspicious, since it feels HEAVILY like you are fishing for any case to gain ground. I know this sounds like it should be pro town...but in this case it's not..it's more throwing shit around and seeing what sticks, really.

[Mirth]

Claiming is still scummy because there is no reason to do it.

And yes, the unvote was strange. If Caboose is scum, his lynch would still be just as safe regardless of SSF's alignment. If SSF is scum with Caboose and jumped on the wagon for early distancing, and then either Farside or I made an intention to hammer known, scum-SSF couldn't very well jump off the wagon then without arousing suspicion. If SSF is town and you are town but Caboose is scum, and there is a hammer from either Farside or me, then, well, one less scum and not in Lylo anymore. No harm done either way as they both end with dead scum. If Caboose is town, then two of us remaining 4 are scum, and at least one person on the wagon would have to be scum, to say nothing of vote positions. This is potentially harmful depending on who is vigged, yes, but you do not know that this is the case. There is an equal chance of Caboose being scum as there is of him being town (2/5), so the potentially harmful is equal to the potentially beneficial here. You were ready to abandon your case when I pointed out a logic flaw, but, had you actually taken the whole thing into consideration you would have seen that a flaw in your reasoning did not actually change the chances of outcome. Your unvote, then, seems like abandonment because after being so convinced about how right you are, you let it go at something that did not clear Caboose as town.

If I'm suspicious for throwing stuff around, why wasn't I suspicious when I started throwing stuff around at Caboose but only now when I'm throwing it at you?

[forbiddanlight]

Because at first it felt like you really believed your case. Now it's beginning to feel like what I said. But, this is inconclusive.

And actually, no, the unvote wasn't strange. If Caboose is scum like I believe, yes, my putting him at L-1 is alright. But, the possiblity he's not scum only makes it worth putting him at L-1 if I believe SSF is town. I have no indicators either way for that, and that oversight isn't worth risking dead town by vig kill.

And also, isn't it the hammer that dies? Because all my possibilites get fucked up if I 'm wrong, but it does make it safe to vote him again. Well, safe as anything.

[Mirth]

Because at first it felt like you really believed your case. Now it's beginning to feel like what I said. But, this is inconclusive.

...

And also, isn't it the hammer that dies? Because all my possibilites get fucked up if I 'm wrong, but it does make it safe to vote him again. Well, safe as anything.

I am never 100% convinced about anything in the first few pages.

Also, as to killing the hammer, I have never played this set up before, but I would think that policy-killing the hammer would be stupid. Town could just as easily hammer as scum. (Example: both scum are already on the wagon, townie does something REALLY stupid, other townie hammers. Insta-loss) The vig kill should be based on a player's actions more so than on vote position.

[forbiddanlight]

Also, as to killing the hammer, I have never played this set up before, but I would think that policy-killing the hammer would be stupid. Town could just as easily hammer as scum. (Example: both scum are already on the wagon, townie does something REALLY stupid, other townie hammers. Insta-loss) The vig kill should be based on a player's actions more so than on vote position.

Ah, you misunderstood me. I thought it was only the hammer that got shot, like a supersaint. If it's any that voted...I'm fine with

vote: Caboose

[forbiddanlight]

Oh wow, it's just a vig kill overall. I need to learn to read better. Either way, I feel a lot better about my vote then.

[Mirth]

So why are you revoting Caboose exactly? Please explain your reasoning?

[forbiddanlight]

So why are you revoting Caboose exactly? Please explain your reasoning?

Because the only reason I unvoted was because L-1 seemed dangerous. It doesn't anymore because the vig can be directed if Caboose is town, and if he's scum, nothing of value is lost.

[Mirth]

Why isn't L-1 dangerous anymore? If he's town he doesn't actually have to take direction, you know.

[Mirth]

Also, I'm kind of sick of this pretty much being a back and forth between me and FL. Can someone else please post?

[forbiddanlight]

Why isn't L-1 dangerous anymore? If he's town he doesn't actually have to take direction, you know.

You once again misunderstand. He can direct the vig if he's town. Whether that's good or bad I know not. But it's not only the hammer that gets killed, which is what had me concerned. If it's the hammer and he is town and SSF is scum, then it'd be a wasted kill. Now, the thing is, I still think he is scum, so it'll be alright. I also think you are possible scum, but need to see more. Either way, I think everyone will wait before hammering since anybody is a target.

Also, I'm kind of sick of this pretty much being a back and forth between me and FL. Can someone else please post?

Be nice, ne?