Mini 653 - Family Guy Mafia - Game over

[LlamaFluff]

Skimmed a bit, im having a hard time getting a observer standpoint given my involvement level. RF needs to post again, preferably a continuance of post 63 given how hesitant he was to act back then (for decent reasons though). I would like to hear more from thinktank and BG.

I still dont like gobo or xtoxm but am calming a little on those fronts.

GW now is confusing me. In 89 he brings up dalt for the xtoxm wagoning, without adding any reason for the vote and pressing for more reasoning. In 96 however he posts that with reasoning he still would of disliked the vote, which means that he is on dalt for placing xtoxm at a fourth vote instead of not supplying sufficent reasoning. I dont like how the reasoning for pressure changed from lack of reasoning to placement of vote here. So while pressuring dalt who is turning into a wagon GW seems conflicted on the reason for the pressure and is not voting for him.

unvote, vote GhostWriter

[GhostWriter]

Oh please. You asked about if there had been a QFT added, not an entire posts worth of reasoning. Don't give me that garbage. If he had given some reasoning behind his vote, then it most likely wouldn't have been suspicious in the first place.

[LlamaFluff]

Well I have this down as a question/response

2. Dalt's voting of Xtoxm: You simply jumped on the vote, after having said nothing about it, not even bothering to give it a QFT or anything of the such. What about Xtoxm got you, personally, to suspect him enough to vote?

Does this mean if he added a QFT you wouldnt of cared about this vote?

No, I would have cared.

Your intial post against dalt sounded like a QFT was acceptable so that is what I acted on. So does this mean if dalt wrote out some reasoning (not QFT) then you would not of turned to him as suspicious? A yes or no here, no a most likely.

My point of you calling him suspect while his wagon is forming and you not voting him still stands though.

[GhostWriter]

If he had written a reasoning with his vote, and actual reasoning, then no, he would not have seemed suspicious, because at least it would have looked like he was doing more than jumping on a bandwagon. And what bandwagon on him are you seeing? He has ONE VOTE. That hardly seems like a bandwagon, unless the meaning of the word has changed, in which I will admit that I'm wrong. Why am I not voting him? Because that reason alone is not enough for me to warrant a vote. I prefer to use my votes like a doctor uses a scalpel, not swing them around like a sword. If I were going to vote him, it'd be to create pressure, but I'm not going to do that. One reason is that this can be done with words, as I was trying to do with the initial post involving the QFT statement. Another is because he still has not shown up after A) The first vote was placed upon him and B) My question to him was asked.

[LlamaFluff]

If he had written a reasoning with his vote, and actual reasoning, then no, he would not have seemed suspicious, because at least it would have looked like he was doing more than jumping on a bandwagon.

Alright so the move against dalt was based on how the wagon was joined. Not based on what vote number he was or the wagonee

And what bandwagon on him are you seeing? He has ONE VOTE. That hardly seems like a bandwagon, unless the meaning of the word has changed, in which I will admit that I'm wrong.

IG and xotxm are voting him now. With you and at least one other mentioning him its the closest thing we have to a second wagons so I am treating it as such.

Why am I not voting him? Because that reason alone is not enough for me to warrant a vote. I prefer to use my votes like a doctor uses a scalpel, not swing them around like a sword. If I were going to vote him, it'd be to create pressure, but I'm not going to do that. One reason is that this can be done with words, as I was trying to do with the initial post involving the QFT statement. Another is because he still has not shown up after A) The first vote was placed upon him and B) My question to him was asked.

Fair enough, I usually vote quite a bit during the first day untill I start getting a clear idea of what im actually doing, and react badly to people who dont like voting. At what point would you feel dalt should be voted though? Dalt does need to talk though.

unvote

for now as I wait for a response from goborage.

[farside22]

vote count:

ghostWriter 1 vote (RestFermata)
Inspector Godot 1 vote: (thinktank)
Xtoxm 3 vote: (kmd4390, kloud1516, dalt54321)
kmd4390 1 vote: (goborage)
thinktank 1 vote: (babygirl86)
dalt54321 2 vote: (Inspector Godot, xtoxm)

Not voting:
Crub
GhostWriter
LlamaFluff

With 12 people it take 7 votes for lynch
Day 1 ends August 25th, 4:00pm PST

[babygirl86]

I don't see anything overly scummy about ghostwriter at all. Dalt, however is still suspicious to me. Although it was only one day, he has indeed posted since he posted his vote here and left. That makes me wonder if he is avoiding explaining his vote.

unvote, vote dalt

[kloud1516]

If he had written a reasoning with his vote, and actual reasoning, then no, he would not have seemed suspicious, because at least it would have looked like he was doing more than jumping on a bandwagon.

Alright so the move against dalt was based on how the wagon was joined. Not based on what vote number he was or the wagonee

LF -- isn't that what he just said his supicions for dalt were all about, the way he jumped on the wagon (the move) without any explanation whatsoever? From what I have read, GW never even addressed the vote count. I could have missed it, and if I did feel free to point it out. I don't find anything about GW's reasoning for suspecting dalt to be suspicious at the moment, as his point was valid imo.

Why am I not voting him? Because that reason alone is not enough for me to warrant a vote. I prefer to use my votes like a doctor uses a scalpel, not swing them around like a sword. If I were going to vote him, it'd be to create pressure, but I'm not going to do that. One reason is that this can be done with words, as I was trying to do with the initial post involving the QFT statement. Another is because he still has not shown up after A) The first vote was placed upon him and B) My question to him was asked.

Fair enough, I usually vote quite a bit during the first day untill I start getting a clear idea of what im actually doing, and react badly to people who dont like voting. At what point would you feel dalt should be voted though? Dalt does need to talk though.

Yes, the fact that dalt has not responded to either the vote or your questioning does seem off, but it isn't unnatural for someone to just have not been able to log on. Right now, I am assuming that dalt hasn't had an opportunity to respond, but when he does return if he does not address the question/vote I will take this as him avoiding to comment.

unvote

[LlamaFluff]

bump to above the lock happy MeMe as I still wait for goborage

[farside22]

Prodding:
dalt54321 last post 08/06 9:38pm
RestFermata last post 08/06 10:46pm

[Kmd4390]

What's this dalt bandwagon about? Is this really a bandwagon built over a bandwagon vote on xtoxm?

[RestFermata]

Sorry, I'm here. I'm excited to jump right into a real mafia game, but I often find myself not posting as often as I'd like when I feel it goes over my head. I apologize, and I'll try to contribute on a more regular basis.

Goborage looks strange to me. He defends himself against allegations of character claiming...then proceeds to all but character claim in the very same post ("Being Cleveland is just a coincidence.") Since we've already been through how any character could potentially be a villain, especially in an essentially villain-free show such as Family Guy, it almost seems like scum excited to make a safe but of course uncontestable claim like Cleveland, a character that seems minimally suspicious.

His posts haven't been very meaty so far, either. He says he doesn't get the bandwagon on xtoxm and says that xtoxm makes some pretty good points, but doesn't add anything to that. Maybe he doesn't think anything needs to be added, but based on the current controversy and the fact that the controversy between Llama and xtoxm is the hot topic right now, you'd think maybe he'd have something to contribute. (I know, I know, I'm being hypocritical, since I've barely posted.)

Llama seems to have been a bit overbearing. Maybe it's just because he doesn't have a vote and he wants to make sure he has influence in the town, or maybe it's his playstyle of choice. But to me, he appears overly critical of people who don't join his bandwagons or think they're a bit hasty. I don't like the things xtoxm has said either, so I agree with him on that. But methinks Llama was pressing a mite too hard. (And he called me a "he"! But...mafiascum is genderblind, right?) But regardless, Llama's probing for input and discussion, and from what I've seen, accepts a good defense when it's given.

Xtoxm was the scummiest candidate in my mind for a while. I'm definitely not finding him particularly pro-town in his suggestions. But I think we can learn a lot more by examining the people on or off his bandwagon and their reasoning, or lack thereof. So for now I'm going to

unvote

and

vote

for

Goborage

. Expect to hear a little more from me from now on. I'm a little shy, but I'll get warmed up to this game. Especially since it's Family Guy!

[LlamaFluff]

Goborage looks strange to me. He defends himself against allegations of character claiming...then proceeds to all but character claim in the very same post ("Being Cleveland is just a coincidence.") Since we've already been through how any character could potentially be a villain, especially in an essentially villain-free show such as Family Guy, it almost seems like scum excited to make a safe but of course uncontestable claim like Cleveland, a character that seems minimally suspicious.

This is good. I dont like how gobo is pressuring me for a role but it is understandable. What doesnt make sense is that he has only a FoS on me, and is still random voting kmd. It seems like he is trying to get a wagon started but isnt willing to contribute a vote as xotxm has already backed off the case.

I still want him to answer the last questions I asked him, and will go ahead and

vote goborage

untill he explains his stances and responds to my question.

[Inspector Godot]

Wait, Goborage said that he was Cleveland? I thought he said that he posted a Cleveland quote as a joke? I think I need to reread.

[RestFermata]

He said that his Cleveland quote was a joke, but "being Cleveland was just a coincidence." I see that as a claim.

[Inspector Godot]

Hm.... I don't, but I can see how you do. Any comment Goborage?

[Kmd4390]

It looked to me like he claimed Cleveland and then backed off of it calling it a joke.

I think if you really want to know, we need to hear from him what it all was.

Character claims don't mean much to me.

[RestFermata]

It's the "coincidence" part that throws me.

Not a character claim. I suppose the first quote didn't really make sense (it was something along the lines of "this is my house"). #2 being Cleveland was coincidence. I just felt that that needed to be said.

coincidence (n): a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance: Our meeting in Venice was pure coincidence.

The two events here would be:

a.) he randomly selected a Cleveland quote in his first post
b.) but he also happens to BE Cleveland

So, I'm thinking one of two possibilities:

a.) this is exactly what he means
b.) he has used the word coincidence to refer to another thing. In this case I want to hear from him what he DID mean, because I don't understand what else could possibly be coinciding in this context.

[Xtoxm]

I don't think gobo is scum, he looks very good to me.

And my suggestion did (does) make copius sense, as his presence, if town, move the day we reach lylo forward by one. So lynching him is no loss AT ALL. Either that, or he is scum. But for some reason you guys don't like it.

[LlamaFluff]

And my suggestion did (does) make copius sense, as his presence, if town, move the day we reach lylo forward by one. So lynching him is no loss AT ALL. Either that, or he is scum. But for some reason you guys don't like it.

Ergh, again lets map out some situations to show you how your argument stalls out

D1 - I get lynched
N1 - town killed
D2 - Random town lynched
N2 - town killed
D3 - random town lynched
N3 - game over with town dead

This plan puts us at D2 with no information to go on whatsoever D1 and two town down. This also will lose the game if you are town since D2 you would need a miracle to talk your way out of lynching me, and basically leave us needing three straight scum lynches to win. All this with no vigs

Now lets look at it my way

D1 - random town lynched
N1 - town killed
D2 - random town lynched
N2 - town killed
D3 - my restiction no lynches us or town gets lynched
N3 - game over

This plan still leaves us with two mislynches to spare, and thats it. Unlike lynching me first, there is no backlash on town who votes me that would let scum drive at least one mislynch, and maybe win the game flat out.

The ONLY difference is if you want three town mislynches or two with a no lynch. With the second plan, town would know who scum was D3 with high likelyhood too, meaning that a no lynch opens doors for a vig picking off scum.

Plan two is much better by my planning, it provides us with much more to go on, and more information for the power roles. I still dont know if you are misguided town or not, but I dont like your defense of goborage. If you paid attention, my case on him was not completely dependant on him thinking im scum for my role. It has to do with how he is pushing the thought.

[Xtoxm]

Llama, that is wrong, D2 is lylo if you are town.

[Xtoxm]

And D3 is lylo if you are scum/town and dead.

[RestFermata]

Let's keep in mind that this also depends on the roles of other players. Maybe somebody has two votes, like a Politician type role, to balance a voting restriction like Llama's out. Maybe there's a vig. These things could either hurt or help the town, but I think it's safe to assume that Llama's not the only one who could influence the way the game turns out.

P.S. I'm definitely not asking anyone to claim, so don't accuse me of it. I'm just saying that Llama's and Xtoxm's number games only work in the simplest possible setup.

[thinktank]

And my suggestion did (does) make copius sense, as his presence, if town, move the day we reach lylo forward by one. So lynching him is no loss AT ALL. Either that, or he is scum. But for some reason you guys don't like it.

Ergh, again lets map out some situations to show you how your argument stalls out

D1 - I get lynched
N1 - town killed
D2 - Random town lynched
N2 - town killed
D3 - random town lynched
N3 - game over with town dead

This plan puts us at D2 with no information to go on whatsoever D1 and two town down. This also will lose the game if you are town since D2 you would need a miracle to talk your way out of lynching me, and basically leave us needing three straight scum lynches to win. All this with no vigs

Now lets look at it my way

D1 - random town lynched
N1 - town killed
D2 - random town lynched
N2 - town killed
D3 - my restiction no lynches us or town gets lynched
N3 - game over

This plan still leaves us with two mislynches to spare, and thats it. Unlike lynching me first, there is no backlash on town who votes me that would let scum drive at least one mislynch, and maybe win the game flat out.

The ONLY difference is if you want three town mislynches or two with a no lynch. With the second plan, town would know who scum was D3 with high likelyhood too, meaning that a no lynch opens doors for a vig picking off scum.

Plan two is much better by my planning, it provides us with much more to go on, and more information for the power roles. I still dont know if you are misguided town or not, but I dont like your defense of goborage. If you paid attention, my case on him was not completely dependant on him thinking im scum for my role. It has to do with how he is pushing the thought.

This argument is almost entirely useless. Considering we don't know anything about anything except that you can't vote. We don't know anything about power roles in this game. We don't know how many scum factions are there. If there are two scum factions or one scum faction and an SK then this changes everything drastically.

That being said, from what I've seen Llama is not the lynch for today.

[Kmd4390]

I don't think gobo is scum, he looks very good to me.

And my suggestion did (does) make copius sense, as his presence, if town, move the day we reach lylo forward by one. So lynching him is no loss AT ALL. Either that, or he is scum. But for some reason you guys don't like it.

It accomplishes nothing. True, it doesn't affect LYLO but we give the scum a free kill.