Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)


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Post Post #2575 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:18 pm

Post by Xtoxm »

:P
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Post Post #2576 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:42 am

Post by DrippingGoofball »

Adel wrote:Sorry I replaced out of this game. I had been in 4 or 5 games at a time for a year and a half without a break.
You didn't... that dumbass Toaster Strudel got you modkilled!
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Post Post #2577 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:44 am

Post by sekinj »

adel wrote:Why didn't they lie?
Cause I didn't think about it. Dont' worry, I felt stupid enough after it was pointed out.
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Post Post #2578 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:54 am

Post by neko2086 »

It was an unfortunate oversight, but if I had done the 'paraphrased' daytalk, I would have done the same thing. It never occured to me to change the timestamp.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sore about the ending, but it was still a fun game. Sek did a great job with the daytalk and keeping Walt at bay with the excel business. Best lover ever!

Armlx and SP, great job as well. I didn't really ever suspect you that much.

See ya'll next time!
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Post Post #2579 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:05 am

Post by Raging Rabbit »

This win does feel a little sore, but it was a great game nonetheless.

The setup is imo very well balanced, no need to change it in any way except disallowing the quoting of timestamps off course. I loved there being no nights and the game being (in theory) based on pure scumhunting, adding a night phase would defenitely hurt this and the numbers are just fine. Excellent design, Adel.

I was strongly biased against the timestamp tell since it made everything so much less interesting, and that coupled with my pro town read on both scumpairs in addition to the mod specifically saying it wasn't true (which I don't think was good move, a mod should never lie to the town) convinced me to ignore it. Obviously not a good call in hindsight.

The dealine policy was excellent, I'd keep it this way in any large game. The game could otherwise turn into a monster and everyone would have trouble staying focused. Activity requirements are good too, though something needs to be done to prevent people from posting one liners once in a while and dissapearing again.

I'm ok with posting our daytalk.

Props to destructor for being an awesome mod overall, this game was really well managed, and also to armlx/Panda and Sekinj/neko who played brillitantly and I honestly think were likely to win if it wasn't for TimeStamp. And off course to Walt (did I mention he's my lover? :P ) for winning us the game.
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Post Post #2580 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:35 am

Post by SleepyPanda »

Congrats to town. Even with the timestamps, I still had a lot of fun playing this game.

Good job to WWB for spotting the timestamps tell and to charter for sticking to his decisions. I still think your case was extremely weak, but you made the right call:D. I apologize if I came off rude at times, I was just playing the part.

Great job as well to neko and sekinj. I really didn't have them pegged as the second mafia pair before the timestamps. The early bussing completely threw me off. Did you buss your partners that early because they were so inactive or did you all agree that that was the best move?
destructor wrote:I thought the daytalking worked well. In retrospect, I don't think allowing even paraphrasing was a good idea. It detracted from the content in thread and turned the game into something other than Mafia. While the fake day talk sek/neko and armlx/Panda produced sounded pretty convincing, it was an unnecessary burden that didn't really enrich the setup and made a difficult game to win even harder.

I'd like some feedback about the deadline policy. I think it was necessary to contain this game and stop it growing to hundreds of pages, but I noticed some criticism of it earlier in the game.

Also, I've used activity requirements in other games I have/am modding and I'm still trying to figure if they're helping. How did you guys feel about them? Did they help? Did they make the game better? Worse? Did they have no effect?
With the daytalk, even though we didn't use it much, I like the idea of it. I agree that paraphrasing shouldn't be allowed. As scum, like you said, it was an unnecessary burden. Even as town, I still wouldn't like it. I think it takes too much away from the actual game itself.

I liked the deadline policy and activity requirements. I don't know if it's regular to have that many people replace in a game this size, but besides having to constantly double check to see who's replacing who, I don't have a problem with it. You did a great job of having to replace so many. Thanks for modding as well!
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Post Post #2581 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:43 am

Post by sekinj »

SleepyPanda wrote:Great job as well to neko and sekinj. I really didn't have them pegged as the second mafia pair before the timestamps. The early bussing completely threw me off. Did you buss your partners that early because they were so inactive or did you all agree that that was the best move?
I was actually getting rather annoyed at the other team since they kept replacing out and BM was so stupid about Crazy. So, at first it was real criticizm, and then it was easy to turn it into a bus when the time was right. We had mentioned bussing early on in our daytalk, but then held off a little, then at the very first sign it was the right move we went for it. Again, it was easy after EA dissapeared because I was mad at him for not answering my question in thread OR daytalk... but then as Walt pointed out, maybe that was becasue I addressed the question to BM :P and then BM wouldn't read and just kept talking about Crazy...

Here is the link to our daytalk (neko I hop you don't mine): http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/W8ZBwx6QHaB7

THere are some tender moments in there, so have a heart while reading :P

Oh... and Walt... about the post dedicated to laughing... well I had a hard time paraphrasing *awkward silence* so I turned it into a laugh :P
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Post Post #2582 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:47 am

Post by armlx »

I got nothing against a day talk posting.

The day talk we posted was pretty much what was said, minus a couple lines about planning how to get mislynches. It was real easy just to say pacman did nothing, as he really did.

This is why any sort of posting of specifics of outside information besides a base paraphrase without reference to specific numbering etc is dumb. Xtoxm's Polygamist had an ok rule, but its really hard to be subjectively right about the issue, though I guess the same applies for role PM's as well.

Congrats to Walt though for breaking the game. Once the mistake is made, it doesn't make the play afterwards any less good in context of the issue. Good catch on the SP "since" slip, it actually was a slip. I completely forgot about that post when doing the day talk summary.

I definitely had the chain of required lynches to win planned had we not been blown out by the time stamps. Starting after BM it was Charter -> DBE -> Darox -> Sekinj. That leaves an end game of WWB + RR, Crazy + KoC, and myself + SP, and the fact WWB doesn't trust Crazy as confirmed gives us a chance either way. The issue would have been getting the Darox lynch without coming out as scummy, as that would have been really hard except on that exact day, as both of the easy lynches were against me/SP some amount and Sekinj/Neko's vote would probably be
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Post Post #2583 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:50 am

Post by Adel »

If Sekinj/Neko and SP/armlx had been on the same team, would they probably have won?
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Post Post #2584 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:53 am

Post by sekinj »

@adel - not with the timestamp thing. either them or us Probably could have won this way without the timestamp thing too. The town was goign to lynch anyone who didn't have the 10:07 timestamp.
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Post Post #2585 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:04 am

Post by Adel »

sekinj wrote:@adel - not with the timestamp thing. either them or us Probably could have won this way without the timestamp thing too. The town was goign to lynch anyone who didn't have the 10:07 timestamp.
I wasn't following the game that closely. I didn't realize that all of the town had the same time stamp. I though the timestamps were in order or something.
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Post Post #2586 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:02 am

Post by Crazy »

I don't think any daytalk paraphrasing should have been allowed. I mean, for scum that had been there for the whole time it isn't excruciatingly difficult, but when CWR replaced in and was immediately asked to post daytalk... well, that was just unfair.

But yeah, I think the setup was a little too biased towards town from the start. Even if it wasn't for the timestamp problems, my money would still be on the town. Armlx/Panda would most likely have been lynched anyway, and then the town would still have
four
lynches to get sekinj/neko as the last scum.

This is still one of my favorite mafia games that I have ever been in. I mean, having 11 people vote for me Day 1, and then in some strange turn, getting my primary attacker lynched instead... and then going on to become nearly confirmed town... just wow.
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Post Post #2587 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:28 am

Post by Cephrir »

I'd agree that the setup seems to favor the town a bit. And winning with the timestamps is horrifically lame, but unfortunately there just wasn't any way we could ignore them. Without them I think both scumteams left would probably have made it to the endgame.

Also, I don't ever plan on playing a lovers-type game again. (Almost) getting lynched entirely based on charter's actions was pretty frustrating. I basically couldn't defend myself at all... it's like getting investigated guilty, there's just nothing you can do about it, pretty much.
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Post Post #2588 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:50 am

Post by charter »

Sorry Ceph. I still don't even realize what I did that was so scummy except that I had a different opinion than the rest of the town (and some OMGUSing). Then when BS attacks were made up against me I came undone.

But yeah, I didn't want to just massclaim everything, since it basically takes a huge part of the game away.
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Post Post #2589 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:53 am

Post by Xtoxm »

Charter looked the most town from what I saw.
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Post Post #2590 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:00 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

Post the day talk.

I was pretty happy to fly under the radar to victory. I was also on every scum wagon!
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Post Post #2591 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:16 pm

Post by Cephrir »

charter wrote:Sorry Ceph. I still don't even realize what I did that was so scummy except that I had a different opinion than the rest of the town (and some OMGUSing). Then when BS attacks were made up against me I came undone.

But yeah, I didn't want to just massclaim everything, since it basically takes a huge part of the game away.
Well yeah, I mean I didn't see anything especially bad about your play but that was still annoying.

And besides, everything turned out OK I suppose :)
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Post Post #2592 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:38 pm

Post by Adel »

Crazy wrote:This is still one of my favorite mafia games that I have ever been in. I mean, having 11 people vote for me Day 1, and then in some strange turn, getting my primary attacker lynched instead... and then going on to become nearly confirmed town... just wow.
I'll take the credit for that ;)
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Post Post #2593 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:18 pm

Post by destructor »

Since no one has asked me not to, here are all the daytalking threads:
Mafia
Werewolves
ThAdmiral & Xtoxm
/DarlaBlueEyes

DrippingGoofball
/Spacecase/OpposedForce/starrie
& Darox
/Raffles/wolframnhart

Crazy & Knight of Cydonia
/farside22

Waltwishbone & Raging Rabbit
charter & Cephrir
Adel
/Ennui2778
& Toaster Strudel
/pwnz

Harvey Pew & ace1217
cerebus3

Alabaska J & kloud1516
/dybeck


I'd like to see the setup run again but I'm still not sure about the numbers. I like the idea of good townies not being punished by being killed at night but my feeling is with the current numbers, the scum teams have a much harder job despite their ability to act together. I'm also imagining situations like two townie pairs having been on lynches of both scum teams making them near confirmed and so hard for a single pair of either scum faction to win at end game. This sort of thing is hard for scum to avoid - they can't really stop a player from making a case short of never slipping up at all or being really good at misdirecting attention. The moment one pair is lynched the game becomes a heap harder for the other.

That said, most have agreed that either sek/neko or armlx/Panda could have made it to end game, so maybe I'm worrying too much.
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Post Post #2594 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:26 pm

Post by Adel »

I agree that 4:4:14 or 4:4:12 may be more balanced. I think I overestimated how useful daytaking will usually be for scum.

I think 4:4:10 would be unbalanced in the other direction. By balanced, I mean that the town should win between 40% and 50% of the time.
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Post Post #2595 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Adel »

I started a thread in mafia discussions about the utility of daytalking and scum communication & team work: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9656
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Post Post #2596 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:15 pm

Post by SleepyPanda »

armlx wrote:Good catch on the SP "since" slip, it actually was a slip. I completely forgot about that post when doing the day talk summary.
How I explained it was what I originally meant. I don't see how it's a slip either. You did include the 9-02 post in your daytalk paraphrase. We also never spoke before that.
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Post Post #2597 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:20 pm

Post by SleepyPanda »

Adel wrote:I started a thread in mafia discussions about the utility of daytalking and scum communication & team work: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9656
I think if I was town, I would've used the daytalk more. That or if both scum pairs are alive. With only one scum pair alive, there's not much coordination needed. Everyone becomes a lynch candidate. The only probable teamwork needed would be pairs that would be beneficial to keep alive.
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Post Post #2598 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:24 pm

Post by Adel »

Do you think it would help if the scum players were not lovers with each other? That way scum could claim lovers in which ever way was most advantageous.
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Post Post #2599 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:27 pm

Post by SleepyPanda »

You mean like, if one scum is lynched, they can decide who their lover is among the other 3? That does sound interesting. I'm sure it would add more depth and strategy to the game.
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