Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]

[Datisi]

It truly hurts to be betrayed by datisi like this

i would never :3

I actually think maybe it is baltar

i am interested in which one of *checks notes* 3 of baltar's posts at that time did you find suspicious

skitter30 and vp baltar are town, which means that already, this game will be 75% less of a headache than i thought

anyway

VOTE: andresvmb

this is the game. i can feel it.

[Datisi]

actually, provisionally add reformed toxic player to the above list. 80% less of a headache.

[Datisi]

it is kind of disturbing that I stayed up till 5am waiting for you to show up and you didn't so much as give me a hi </3

and it is kind of disturbing that you declared me scum before i even uttered a single word, this world is unfair sometimes.

his vote on you feels like the kind of rvs distancing vote scum love to place on a buddy to be cute.

i must've missed it due to him rvs-voting me pretty much every game we've played. and also due to me being town, that too.

tell me about your three townreads on page two tho <3

skitter30 is town because scum!skitt has no motivation to post 26. about 20 minites had passed since rtp'd put me on y-2. scum!skitt would benefit much more by sitting down, shutting the fuck up, and waiting to see if anyone is gonna be funny and try to put me on y-1 and/or hammer me. a town death this quickly would benefit scum!her massively. instead of that, not only does she defuse the wagon, she also declares a townread on two (two!!) out of 4 oh her fellow wagoners. if she had waited and had the wagon went through, that'd have been a prime opportunity to push them. "but what if they're partners" i hear you say. i don't think it's likely. (and obligatory "she did the same in potions game" meta point.)

vp baltar is town, ironically, solely for 6. i think that post would have had at least a hint of awkwardness had he been red, and i didn't detect any of it. also 29 vibes townie, but that's not a very strong point as i don't think he'd find it that difficult to fake.

reformed toxic player is town for putting me on y-2 then declaring that y-2 6 seconds later. "datisi, what the fuck are talking--?" listen. scum in that position either votes me in order to hope to silently push the wagon through early and then go "oopsie i didn't know what the votes were" or they vote me in order to appear Townie and Sorting and also Caring about Appearances. if it were the first case, a y-2 warning wouldn't have come at all. if it were the second, a y-2 warning would've been included with the vote. 6 seconds is not enough to go back, recount the votes, realize it is y-2, decide to post 15. so they must've already been aware of the fact at the time of posting 14.

the reason why this one is provisionally added is because 14 is a meme and it's possible rtp did not want to dilute the meme by also poting "y-2" in the same post.

[Datisi]

btw i like your new pfp it is very cute. ♡( ◡‿◡ )

thank you <3 i had spent almost 2 hours editing it yesterday, i am glad you like it :>

[Datisi]

i can hear the skitt/vpb/rtp scumteam laughing at me in their pt.

pedit: sleep well! ^u^

[Datisi]

i am town

you can sleep well knowing that i will protect this town and you from evil scum, or die trying

[Datisi]

@mod v/la next tuesday and thursday

semester wrapping up, i'll soon have a crap ton of finals, but it likely won't affect my activity too much because i'm a dirty addict. anyway.

[Datisi]

and i disagree because that both lowers the chances of a lolhammer actually happening and makes them unable to play stupid later on

[Datisi]

VOTE: house

[Datisi]

Datisi, do you think your ability to town read me has significantly improved because of our last game?

yes. it remains to be seen whether my ability to *correctly* townread you has improved, though.

[Datisi]

Datisi, do you think your ability to town read me has significantly improved because of our last game?

yes. it remains to be seen whether my ability to *correctly* townread you has improved, though.

Is there something specific you think made that leap for you? I ask because I don't recall ever seeing you townread me for some early game shit posting. I'll take it, but definitely unexpected.

hammering right as the deciding vote for the first time in over 3 years does that to a person. i have townread you for early game shitposting before, but it's true i've never actually publicly said so. which begs the question... why are you oh so casually gonna take it?

[Datisi]

I haven't been here for about 6 months and the game I'm basing this off of was almost a year ago so it could have changed but Datisi is chronically incapable of keeping his shit together when scum from my experience, so I'd expect him to come across as more paranoid and panic-sounding if he were scum. I modded 2195 and got to see his mental breakdowns in real time and there's a lot of similarity between that playerlist and this one.

not saying i've improved a whole lot in that regard since, but i do think you're somewhat biased in this read, since you were able to see both my scum pt + notes pt breakdowns at the time. it's usually much more collected in the main thread.

in somewhat related fashion, ower reminds me of the one (1) i've played with town!him, but that read strikes all three of almost a year ago, sample size one, meta bad, so.

[Datisi]

But I wouldn’t completely discount the possibility that Scum couldn’t possibly have piled on there and then Unvoted to give the appearance of letting the thread breathe.

i mean, sure, it's possible. but that seems like a pretty complex thing for scum to do that, on average, i'd say they probably wouldn't bother.

And let’s get real - if you’re Town, Scum aren’t going to turn around and put you at E-1 and really think you’re going to get hammered out of nowhere. Not with this player list.

maybe i'm taking too much from menalque's school of scumplay, but i'm of the thought that early quickhammers by scum are beneficial to the scumteam, even if they result in the hammering scum getting policied the next day. and i've seen games fall apart quite quickly after things like that happen. so i'm always wary of that happening, and i'm always of the thought that scum would be trying to make it happen.

[Datisi]

my whole point is that it's not necessarily stupid - it could be a valid strategy to shut down discussion on page two, take out up to two of town's power roles, and make any discussion on d2 useless, in exchange for one scum.

point taken that it's less likely to happen here due to this actually being a pretty fun playerlist, though.

pedit: that's fair, it's not an ironclad read by any means anyway.

[Datisi]

Mmmm guess what I am making rn Datisi

is it... a new avi?

RTP has not tried to pocket me yet so I'm thinking he's town.

they*

[Datisi]

kind of sad you think I would let you get quickhammered early d1 tho

i think scum!you would rather do that than have to lie to me for the entirety of this game <3

[Datisi]

What else would I do in that situation?

probe further, call me scum, start screaming for my head, you know the usual.

[Datisi]

i think iv's current behaviour is probably nai but it makes me wanna vote him anyway

[Datisi]

VOTE: innocentvillager

[Datisi]

Oh wait, you still haven't called me town.

you're not town, tho.

[Datisi]

"you don't wanna townread me!!" is basically rvs.

[Datisi]

and me specifically is supposed to be townreading you right now because...?

[Datisi]

you have done nothing this game that can be qualified as either "chaotic", "good", "lawful", or "evil". so my question still remains.

[Datisi]

i read 120 as a shitpost. if your argument here is that 120 (a post where you or so hilariously vote someone after agreeing they're town) is out of your scumrange, that is (1) really sad, and (2) not something i'm buying.

[Datisi]

This has to be the earliest I've caught scum.

i'm scum because... after having played one (1) short game with you, i am somehow supposed to magically know that you play so far this game is so wacky and out there that it would never ever come from scum!you. and it's only me specifically that should know that. 1/10 reaction test, see me after class.

[Datisi]

how is your Sunday going Datisi ^__^

pretty lazily actually, overall not bad though

[Datisi]

He correctly scumread me based on my predecessor, and I flipped his read.

you did not flip my read. i found the "i would've killed you last night" compelling enough to check my work elsewhere. it just so happened that you got hammered before i was done checking my work elsewhere. you were still firmly in my poe.

[Datisi]

My play is absolutely nothing like that game.

first of all, this is assuming that you're a scumplayer who has only one way of playing scum. which is, again, either really sad or a bad argument. and then, how is this a point in your favour? if you allegedly snowed me in that mini, WHY should i be giving you an easy townread here? wouldn't it be logical that i'd be more wary of you?

[Datisi]

Why would scum need to do reaction tests?

why would scum need to read the game? why would scum have to post content?

[Datisi]

if you allegedly snowed me in that mini, WHY should i be giving you an easy townread here? wouldn't it be logical that i'd be more wary of you?

[Datisi]

to borrow a great player's words, house's arguments are so bad, it has to be a townie talking out of their own ass.

[Datisi]

Because my town & scum games stand in stark contrast to each other.

i have one. ONE. game of experience with you. your whole premise of me being scum is that i'm supposed to accept at face value that your scumgame is utter shit and what i saw in that mini is the best you're capable of. i'm not accepting that just based on your own words.

[Datisi]

VOTE: laplacian

[Datisi]

that's not why i'm voting him.

[Datisi]

i have not, should i?

[Datisi]

i could give it a watch once my uni responsibilities die down a bit! if i start watching it now and it's good, i won't stop until i finish it, and that's not good news for my grades.

Okay, I'm caught up and Frogsterking's post stuck out the most for me. It feels a lot like "I made a helpful town thing, look how townie I am!".

If he posts the survey and it is legit helpful, then consider this retracted

, but until then it's blatantly grabbing for trust.
VOTE: Frogsterking

anyway, now that i'm back from my walk - this is not a town post. the bolded is what especially bugs me. *what* is the point of that? assume laplacian is town. why would he post this? why would he be giving his scumread a roadmap on how to get back on his good side? i feel like a townie here who finds the exsitence or lackthereof of the survey would wait to see if the person posts it themselves. this feels more like trying to overjustify their scumread rather than actually trying to read someone.

if this were an older player, i could see this being a reaction test of some sort, but i think it's less likely to be one coming from a new player, so.

[Datisi]

i don't mind it because i mentally connected the old avatar to 2195 and i do not like thinking about 2195

[Datisi]

First, I'm assuming that he was posting it no matter what. Since saying "I'll post this useful town survey" and then not posting it is even more sketchy. Reevaluating my stance when the survey appears is just natural, and so it's natural to say it.

if you were assuming he was gonna post it no matter what, then why did you vote him for not having posted it yet?

also i dislike 200 because ~filling up thread space~ but i don't know if i genuinely dislike it or if i'm just getting biased at this point

[Datisi]

i feel like ari / dats is probably not svs

what struck you as non s/s? and it should be better than "they're flirting".

[Datisi]

she most definitely is, question is whether she's town or scum doing it

[Datisi]

221 is a post that i *really* want to call bad for reasons that would most definitely get easily disputed and ultimately do not actually mean anything

which is reminding me of the fact how useful it would be to have iv actually play the darn game if he's town

[Datisi]

Baltar seems to be playing how I remember him playing 2195 where he was town.

:thonk:

nevermind scratch that, now i want to townread baltar because i don't think scum!him forgets whether someone is townreading or scumreading him, and surely he would be faking something like this?? haha??? surely????

[Datisi]

surely he wouldn't* be faking zzz

[Datisi]

221 is a post that i *really* want to call bad for reasons that would most definitely get easily disputed and ultimately do not actually mean anything

Elaborate.

221 is bad because like
i don't think it's groundbreaking to say that not every post in a game gets a reaction from people. and the fact that he said he didn't like that iv's nakedvote doesn't mean that he automatically thinks any and all nakedvotes are bad because context do be important sometimes. this is something that we all know. but your post kinda ~ignores~ that fact and goes on the offence on "why didn't you react to this" which has the subtle implication that ower is scum for not reacting to it because he's scum breaking his own principle of "all nakedvotes are scummy" which would then obviously mean that that principle was made up in the first place therefore he's scum. BUT just ebcause he found one nakedvote scummy doesn't mean he finds all of them scummy so you're subtly and subconsciously making us think he said that when he did NOT

[Datisi]

if you're wondering "how sure are you in this read" the answer is not very, i don't think it's actually very likely to be correct but that is the Vibe that that Specific Post gave me

[Datisi]

I do however think it would at least generate a question, especially when outworld has been going deep pretty fast in the game already.

do you have any feels on outworld and/or his response?

[Datisi]

i obviously disagree with that from a theory standpoint, but i can easily see the thought coming from town, though i am slightly annoyed there is no firm alignment-related conclusion, but i will think about it tomorrow

[Datisi]

i am on the fence abt iv

what is making you be on the fence as opposed to a scumread?

[Datisi]

i can't believe you think i would ever react like the guy on the left to you telling me good morning >_>

[Datisi]

if i help you get a pagetop, can i skip the survey?

[Datisi]

laziness and no faith in it actually being pro-town? i'll know when i see it.

[Datisi]

VP Baltar
(most mafia)

any updated reasoning for this?

[Datisi]

I spectated a game with frog and theyre very different tonally here ^.^

they're different in which direction >_>

[Datisi]

they're different in which direction >_>

What does this mean, why would there be a single direction

rtp said how frog is different in this game than in some other one

i don't know if that means "frog is different here than in a scumgame, so i think they're town" or "frog is different here than in a towngame, so i think they're scum"

[Datisi]

Eh frog is probably town

why

[Datisi]

i am going to be a bit selfish because i'd like to believe this might help me read this game

Spoiler: do not open if your name isn't vp baltar

The first prototype of this start was used in a Mini Normal and that game ended in a town win!!

Can I get a link to this game?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85345

[Datisi]

It seems that you have knowledge about VP Baltar which is affecting your interpretation and I don't know enough about it to trust it over what I'm observing.

my relevant knowledge of him here is that i have a tendency to gut-scumread every single thing he does due to naturally finding his tone scummy and due to getting *very* badly burned once. realistically, 221 is a pretty nai post i think?

[Datisi]

here are reads that have a 140% chance of making me look like an idiot in post-game

the closer to the left edge you are, the more i townread you
the closer to the right edge you are, the more i scumread you
and the further up you are, the bigger the headache you give me

Spoiler:

[Datisi]

I'm noticing he doesn't share a lot with others and a consistent lack of follow up to his questions.

can you give an example of not following up on questions? and what do you consider ai about 221, is it just what i've written?

[Datisi]

i'm gutting on literally everything, it's page 14 and ico isn't in the game

andres is tonal mostly, the way he spoke about his skitt read reminded me of how he usually discusses his reads (i.e. hedgy and "idk i could be wrong tho" and scummy-sounding)

the exact fact that i haven't seen shit from a50 is what makes me think he's more likely scum than rand, since i feel like town!him would've like... done *something*? the fact that he's dropped the claim and nothing more feels like a lazy attempt at pretending to be a quirky wifom-y townie

[Datisi]

the exact fact that i haven't seen shit from a50 is what makes me think he's more likely scum than rand, since i feel like town!him would've like... done *something*? the fact that he's dropped the claim and nothing more feels like a lazy attempt at pretending to be a quirky wifom-y townie

I'm so vibing with this.

can't tell if sarcasm

[Datisi]

@frogs, 337 is my post

@house, i found it weird you're ~so vibing~ with someone you have as lockscum

[Datisi]

scorpious is not present in this game

[Datisi]

completing the survey would be the first thing i would do as scum because i don't believe for a second that someone who has zero prior experience with me can accurately read my alignment based on seeing a personality test report

[Datisi]

fun fact: i actually held a short seminar last year on the topic of the big five personality traits as a part of my finals. i am well aware what they are.

i see no point in taking the test because i don't think it will be a net-benefit to town. on the subject of reading my alignment - i would answer it the same way regardless if i was town or scum. i consider myself a good enough scum player that i don't need to fake or skew any parts of my personality in order to achieve something in-game, so it's pretty unlikely it will help you in that regard. and as for my temperament - why should i be giving you a roadmap on how to interact with me? if you are scum, it gives you a headstart if you know how to use the data i presented. in either case, it makes *you* more difficult to read for *me* because i'm now aware you will be using my responses when you speak to me, and i don't like seeing filtered thoughts like that.

the idea of knowing our temperaments so that we can potentially work together better is nice on paper, but i don't think it's that simple in practice. in order for it to work, i'd have to trust you're town (and i see no reason to right now), and even then it might mask important reactions.

[Datisi]

VOTE: innocentvillager

[Datisi]

I'm somewhat suspicious of house, maybe vp but idk how to read him too

spicy, tell me more?

[Datisi]

frogster's most recent posts kind of remind me of me when i'm really excited about a game and have to keep spewing thoughts about it (like, the thoughts about house being scum planning for lylo and vp being toxic and house/iv being partners seems like... crazy, but crazy in such a way that makes me think it's coming from town? like, if scum was gonna present something like this, i feel like they definitely would've built more of a bakcbone to it instead of just dropping the takes)

this means that the number of people i have no reason to townread is getting a biiiiit too small for this stage of the game, so either i either solved the game on page 14 or i'm fucking up somewhere. the latter is more likely. will think about it tomorrow.

[Datisi]

btw, we don't use the l-word anymore.

it's gonna be fun because i think house is really town right now, which means i need to reassess and see if my reasoning for townreading him is any good. but again, at some point tomorrow, it's almost midnight, etc

[Datisi]

i am awake at this disgustingly early time against my will and why are there 10 new pages

[Datisi]

i had a dream i was modding a dance game and s_s flipped red, and the final 4 was peta/ydrasse and pooky/gypyx and gypyx was scum, but i didn't mod the game properly from that point on and i got permabanned. anyway this game yes

Would like to hear ur reasoning to tr house (tom of course)
Night dats!

i love how this post has the subtle tone of "for the love of fuck, go to sleep"

anyway, at the time, my townread consisted mostly of his "scumread" on me. like, he started attacking a generally townread person with reasoning that was so batshit insane it wasn't going to convince anyone, and it would only attract heat his way. so like what was the point. having slept on it, i'll admit this isn't really Rock Solid because i don't have enough experience w house to know if he does shit like that as scum. my first thought is a no, because people *generally* don't do that as scum, but i can't say for certain

No skitter omg don't stop the thought train make it a vote train I was trying to stay away from the thread for a few more hours but I went for a walk and I couldn't stop drafting this great post in my head that scum cased house based on VP = VI in a tvt with me and

house preferring to take VP with him to lylo over me but willing to hammer either

so shading me but not committing either way, and

house dropping a TMI with his weird read on innocentvillager

(though I don't know if he's trying to get town cred by defending a lurker he knows is townie or trying to protect his scum buddy because i sr iv's apathy as well he said he joined because the playerlist was interesting so why isn't he more interested?).

frogster, could you link/quote where you think house is doing the bolded? my knee-jerk reaction to this post yesterday was "what", but i feel like i should be doing my due diligence here so

Datsi

who?

Datisi - You know what's fucked? The only other time I can remember Datisi easy town reading me early was in 2195* when he was scum. I know this because he talks about this game a lot and I actually just looked it up. Other than that, has seemed townish. Would not yeet D1.

while i like the ~initiative~ and ~proactivity~ that this post brings, i'm not sure how much i like the fact that a lot of this post is... "lol idk haha". also, didn't we just have a realization that only scum posts readslists early?

in any case, the part on me is correct, the one and only time i publicly townread you early was when i was scum. what about my play is "townish" enough to offset that point for you?

re house's 496: being disconnected from the game and being not engaged in a game are not the same thing, but ok

ok i'm gonna vegetate for a bit here, be back in a bit

[Datisi]

Voting someone and claiming they're a deep wolf is the same thing as saying they look like town but have to be scum that will be hard to eliminate... BECAUSE THERE IS NO CASE AGAINST THEM.

except not really, frogster did have a case on you (as weird as it was) and claimed you were more of a deepwolf than iv (i.e. you're being more townread than iv), that's nowhere near the same as saying "house looks town but i will vote him anyway"

Datisi - I don't have any thoughts on Datisi's alignment, but he's definitely next on my radar to read if I get some time because I do feel like Datisi gives off genuine hints of towniness if you look closely enough.

skitter - I really don't have any thoughts on skitter. I've concluded I have absolutely no idea how to read her and I doubt I will be able to. I'm very paranoid of this slot in general.

what is the point of including either of these

also i just realized that i find it potentially concerning that this list had no thoughts on vp, because my earlier "i wish iv was playing this game" comment was about the fact that i think iv is much less paranoid of vp so he stops me from spiraling into a paranoia tunnel, but the fact that vp was not even mentioned in the list is ??? ? ? ? ?? ?

ok i see he was mentioned in 533 and uuuuuuuuugh iv why can't you just be town instead of spending so much time explaining why you won't be town

no. We've been TvT in 2180, Jungle, and 2207. Actually, you me and Datisi were TvTvT in all 3 of those.

Fun fact, we lost all of those games.

Oof, jungle hurt. Here is to all of us being town and getting redemption.

i am still mad about jungle oligarchy. still mad!

I would be surprised if any in the dark green flipped scum.

why are innocentvillager and laplacian in greens?

VOTE: laplacian
I never Townresd this slot btw I just wanted to be the good cop whole people were pushing them to get them to feel hopeful: 3

btw, this was my reasoning for putting rtp in "slightly townie but also very headache" part of the triangle - i recognized that their "townread" on laplacian was just fishing for associates, bc i know they do that as town. my issue is that that seemed a *bit* too over the top, like if their true goal was getting associates, it felt a *bit* too friendly. maybe it's more not being used to the cutesy emojis on this account, though >_>

my solve has been vp/iv/laplacian for a while now :3 I largely townread everyone else here

a50 is the only null methinks

i can vibe with this *i guess*, except for the vp part, why is he scum?

unsure abt laplacian

That's my primary question mark in light green, with the outside possibility of Datisi as dark horse.

something something hunting deepwolfs on day one

i got to a big wallpost from frogster, will take another break

[Datisi]

dance game

when are you going to invite me to a dance game? ~_~

when is the next dance game happening?

re house's 496: being disconnected from the game and being not engaged in a game are not the same thing, but ok

Maybe to you, but as far as I'm concerned the words are synonymous.

not engaged = not posting much
being disconnected = posting things that are obviously out of tune to what is happening in the game

like if i now disappeared for the next 48 hours, that's not engaged. if i now dropped a case on how the scumteam is house/vp/frogsterking because they decided they will start the game by doing a ton of nonsense pointless theater, that's disconnected.

inb4 that actually is the team and i am being stupid

i think that is how skitter was using it, so

[Datisi]

reading through 592, i'm reminded of the fact that laplacian's original vote on frogsterking was about him talking about a survey but not posting it. how come there was no update on his read of frogster? not only did he post the survey, he also used the reactions to build a worldview... instead laplacian spends time arguing about why the survey isn't some magical tool for scumhunting (452)?

oh, there's also 458, where he says frogster is town "for effort" but he's leaving the vote there anyway and askjfesgrhegt

okay i got to where i started posting

can't say i'm a fan of a50. the only kind-of-read i see from him is the "scum are pushing me", but even that is very surface-level and i can't say i actually think it's hard to fake or anything.

other than that, i want to go back to voting laplacian, but i should probably check what the votes are at first

[Datisi]

mmmmm is that a promise?

you know i would love to dance with you <3

[Datisi]

VOTE: laplacian

i'm gonna go pretend to be doing work, catcha later

[Datisi]

For right now I trust RTP because I'm fairly sure this is their town game

why do you townread them that strongly?

[Datisi]

#1 Do you think any or all of Lap, iv, a50 are lunchbait?

#2 Is there any reason why any or all of these wagons can't be scum lead, or at least largely pushed by scum?

i can see a universe where town!iv is playing like this, and he always reads scummy to me early anyway, so sure. a50 can definitely be yeetbait *if* the town is one of those to think weird = scummy. no clue on lap, i might try to do a cursory meta check tonight when i come home, but no promises.

i don't think there is? like, my own reads tell me the answer is "the wagons are town-motivated", but my own reads are at least lightly townreading everyone but those three + s_s, so either i'm the next paragon or we're fucking up somewhere. if we're talking about ~gamestate~ reads, i would guess that there exist representatives of both alignments in the three names. mostly, it seems to me like there's similar people jumping from one wagon to another, but there is enough difference in the reads of the wagoners that i can't help but feel that at least some of it is agenda-based and intentional.

i know this is a super vague non-answer, but i don't think i have any better at this point in time.

[Datisi]

something something hunting deepwolfs on day one

Saying something is possible ≠ "hunting"

Stop the dumb shit.

Is Paragon a real person?

paragon is the name of the scummie award for the best scumhunter in a year. i often joke about being a paragon in posts like that since my reads usually aren't Great.

i think that is how skitter was using it, so

skitter didn't get all pissy about my verbiage, so there's no need for you to be offended on her behalf.

i'm not offended, i'm explaining it to you in the hopes that you will understand where someone was coming from. why so mad?

[Datisi]

Asking questions to a wide variety of people and poking at motivations for why folks are doing stuff.

this is not really wrong, but the issue is that this is something i do as either alignment? or like, at least i try to emulate when red.

as for my responses to iv, not sure i got much. i do think his posts were, like, ~genuine~, but i don't think that necessarily makes him town? i think iv is capable of genuineposting as either alignment, so i am interested if/what you specifically found townie

[Datisi]

It's not my priority

i am fucking heartbroken

[Datisi]

to be frank with you, i am not 100% convinced the "playstyle chance" is a genuine thing he always planned, or a thing he post hoced once he saw a red role pm

ate is not scum!indicative, but i have seen scum!iv ate decently well which is why i don't plan on townreading hin strongly for that

i do like his most recent posts *enough* to think that there's now more value in pushing lap than it is in pushing iv, but that does not at all mean i townread him now

class break ending, gotta run, i can go into this further later today if you'd like

[Datisi]

It's not my priority

i am fucking heartbroken

You know if you're alive tomorrow, you're obv scum so...

hey, there was that one town game we played where i got killed n2 instead of n1!!

[Datisi]

class break ending, gotta run, i can go into this further later today if you'd like

I haven't really read the last 10 pages yet (and probably won't for a few hours since I need to do some work atm), but if you didn't really directly address iv's posts, I would be interested in hearing you give them a close look and some level of conclusion on where your stance on his slot is given he was your wagon focus for a bit there.

i "directly" addressed the fact that his readslist felt very odd

ok, i reread the most recent parts of his iso, and it all just feels... muddy. like he's Here and Posting and whatever but none of it feels like there are actual cogs turning behind the scenes. which doesn't 100% make him scum, but it's nothing to townread him for. like, his reads are... nothing? which, sure he hasn't read the game etc, but why is he town here?

like, if you really wanted, i *could* go post by post but i feel like my commentary would be "this adds nothing to the discussion" for the most part - and i just don't think the annoyance is townie, like i've said. the genuineness of it means nothing to me because iv is one of those people that knows how to fake emotional genuineness as scum.

i can't really give you a firm conclusion, though. "he feels scummy rn and i'm not buying the reasons he's supposed to be town but i'm aware it's too early for me to read him yet" is all i got. also, just because i swapped my vote from his wagon does *not* mean my read of iv improved in any way. i'm not one of those "must hold vote at strongest scumread at all times" people.

[Datisi]

Iv is at least being active and giving thoughts.

uhh...

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

Both responses are towny because they both seem obviously wrong, and it's more likely that scum would have given a serious thought to it and thus would accurately report how they would treat it.

what is wrong about my response? do you think a personality test report would help someone read my in-game alignment?

[Datisi]

i'm reading the vp v rtp spat on pg 31 and i am too tired for this - 768 feels weird because vp has never said either of those reads as far as i remember

which is actually kinda unfortunate because i would like him to have a stance on either of those players but

like, on one hand i feel for baltar because those are things he definitely didn't do and i know how annoying it is to have to defend against bullshit you did not do

on the other i individually do not like baltar's laplacian read enough that i am thonking on it for a bit

easiest solution would be to flip laplacian and the go after either rtp or vp depending on the flip, yes i am very smart

in all seriousness, i feel like i wanna have an honest convo with rtp about their thoughts on vp because i can kinda ~feel~ the idea behind it, but a lot of it feels like making a conclusion then fitting the thread events around that conclusion and that's not something i can vibe with

[Datisi]

the post above made me skim laplacian's iso from newbie 2085 and my conclusion is that i do not feel like unvoting right now

@baltar, if you wanna do meta reads, can you do one here, might be spicy

[Datisi]

frogster, i was asking s_s why he thought that my 392 is wrong but uh thanks i guess

anyway,
still don't really see why iv is townie, so @skitt/baltar/whoever the fuck, lemme know k thanks

i need to speak to rtp because like uhh just as i was able to put away my baltar paranoia for now they did the thing

i'm gonna go pass out at the very late time of 9:21pm because i didn't sleep shit the past two days, see y'all tomorrow

[Datisi]

Nah im not wasting discussion space for this conversation

If youre trying to say im scum you should be voting me (:

I am just trying to understand your thought process in switching from iv to Lap when there was a viable iv wagon.

Then you said it was obvious you felt better about iv ... which idk how anyone is supposed to know that, but ok.


Then I realized you just said you felt better about iv at the same time he was in your vp/iv/Lap solve. Which, uh...

Datisi, did you read this and does it strike you as weird?

i read it and i said the whole you/rtp exchange gives me a headache because it feels weird in multiple ways, but i cannot put my finger on WHY

it is definitely weird, but i know rtp is somewhat easy sometimes to be made out of to look weird because their thought processes aren't 100% connected at times and they don't always elaborate when asked

so in order to determine wtf is happening, i should try to figure out whether there's any merit in what they're saying, which means i need to figure out whether you're actually doing what they're accusing you of... which is a problem for another time because reading words is too much effort right now.

[Datisi]

His content last night was decent

what content

what content did he put out that made you think decent

[Datisi]

it is definitely weird, but i know rtp is somewhat easy sometimes to be made out of to look weird because their thought processes aren't 100% connected at times and they don't always elaborate when asked

this is a pure grammatical shitfest but i hope you understand what i am saying

pedit: it's fine i'm really tired anyway

[Datisi]

completing the survey would be the first thing i would do as scum because i don't believe for a second that someone who has zero prior experience with me can accurately read my alignment based on seeing a personality test report

I mean polygraphs have not been demonstrated to have any test validity whatsoever. They are complete pseudoscience and only a tactic to get people to confess.

If you are concealing a crime that you had committed which is actively being investigated by the police, would you volunteer to take a polygraph test since you know they have no test validity?

i wasn't arguing the big five has no validity, i was arguing that it was measuring a construct that is irrelevant to reading my alignment in this game, and therefore it would be easy ~good townie points~ to score by completing it, while actually giving no useful info

[Datisi]

IDK, do you work harder as scum than as town?

to an outside observer, my towngame seems more effort-y than my scumgame - but i definitely work harder as scum, so. just a lot of that work is behind the scenes. not sure why you ask, tho.

[Datisi]

so it implies you would be willing to put in more extra effort as scum than as town.

it's not about "extra effort". i believe posting my test results as town would have the negative effect of making the game harder to read for me because scum would potentially know better how to interact with me. that drawback isn't worth the positives of getting townpoints as town.

as scum, there is obviously no such drawback because i'm not actually making reads. it's an action that net-negative to do as town but net-positive to do as scum.

What if I just want to read your personality profile because I like reading about you?

i will gladly take the test and send you my results post game of you are truly curious

okay, off for real, don't have too much fun without me

[Datisi]

why is azelf blinking

[Datisi]

that is a post i need to use my brain for in order to answer, i will do that tomorrow

someone yell at me if i post again in the next 8 hours

[Datisi]

If I combine my reads

how do you feel about actually sharing your reads?

pedit: of course there's a huge post that drops now... will get to it when i crawl out of bed lol

[Datisi]

house, why the fuck would you out after one vote, what the fuck

[Datisi]

i was gonna tell you to let it go because laplacian is 100% flipping first

[Datisi]

frogster isn't scum and i'm willing to argue about it

[Datisi]

i am actually fucking pissed now, i had a plan for this game and your dumbass claim ruined it

[Datisi]

datisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

what

[Datisi]

datisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

what

ur yelling D:

yeah i am

if you wanna direct my attention elsewhere, you are free to explain why vp is scum and why earlier on you started acting like everyone and their mother scumead you

[Datisi]

house and frogster stop interacting with each other, you're bloating the game and nothing good comes from it

[Datisi]

why is azelf blinking

that is not at all the reasoning I thought you would have, it seems equally weird to saying that posting your OCEAN results would help townies read you. do you really think scum would go like "oh he has high levels of anxiety, let's try to make him freak out"? (well honestly it doesn't take an OCEAN result to figure

that

one out)

yes and no? frogster's argument earlier on was that we should post the results in order to learn how to better interact with each other etc. while that obviously has good effects if we're town, it can be abused if he's scum and knows how to use it. am i genuinely worried that the game is gonna become completely unreadable to me because scum is gonna cater to my test results? not really, no. but it is possible that, by knowing a lot or everyone's profile, they could theoretically more easily construct a gamestate. again, not really a huge worry, but it is a part of the reason why i don't want to take the test.

btw, this was my reasoning for putting rtp in "slightly townie but also very headache" part of the triangle - i recognized that their "townread" on laplacian was just fishing for associates, bc i know they do that as town. my issue is that that seemed a *bit* too over the top, like if their true goal was getting associates, it felt a *bit* too friendly.

Are you saying this is why you're giving them townpoints or this is why they are a headache and you're less sure?

both. they're doing something i know they love to do as town, so that's townpoints. but they're doing it in such a way that feels almost a bit *too* on the nose or over the top, which makes me paranoid it might be done with the intention of having other players notice they're doing it, not for the sake of actually getting associates.

Did see one thing in my catch up that maybe puts me more at ease with Datisi, so that's good.

can i know what this is? for, uh, future reference.

the fact that i think iv is much less paranoid of vp so he stops me from spiraling into a paranoia tunnel, but the fact that vp was not even mentioned in the list is ??? ? ? ? ?? ?

ok i see he was mentioned in 533 and uuuuuuuuugh iv why can't you just be town instead of spending so much time explaining why you won't be town

Coming back to this...there are several people not mentioned in IV's list (me, andres, Outworld, SS, etc).

Why did you single me out?

from what i remember of the games where me, you, and iv were t/t/t, it's that i'm prone do get paranoid of you, while iv is prone to read you correctly without that silly paranoia. i know there was at least one instance in 2207 were i was rambling about you being scum for some nonsense reason and iv was like "datisi shut the fuck up he's not scum". so, i found it weird that he didn't mention you because i remember him being able to read you easily (to be fair, maybe less than i'm actually giving him credit for, i haven't gone back to check). and i'm also annoyed because i'm *hoping* we're t/t/t again, and him quelling my paranoia here would help me, and he didn't do that >_>

I'm likely to eliminate Andres from that list too soon they're just a difficult read for me

since *when* is andres a difficult read for you??

also, why are you being so... neurotic? i don't think anyone is currently scumreading you >_>

bottom of pg 36, be back later

[Datisi]

this isn't leading to a vote on you .... if i'm wrong on vp i'd like to discuss it with you and see where i'm wrong, as rn i townread him p strongly

+1

[Datisi]

vp:

A50 is a very competent player and my vote has nothing to do with him claiming...

So you would like to get rid of a very competent player? Couldn't they help us solve the game later?

I want to get rid of scum. They are not going to help us later in the game.

also vp:

Andres is late game beast as town. We aren't yeeting him

:thonk:

[Datisi]

vp:

A50 is a very competent player and my vote has nothing to do with him claiming...

So you would like to get rid of a very competent player? Couldn't they help us solve the game later?

I want to get rid of scum. They are not going to help us later in the game.

also vp:

Andres is late game beast as town. We aren't yeeting him

:thonk:

[Datisi]

don't have thoughts on rtp, dats, ari

how do you don't have thoughts on me yet >_>

[Datisi]

okay i'm sorta caught up

my current most important thing is either getting a townread on laplacian or yeeting him into the sun. looks like the latter is more likely to happen. second most important thing is actually managing to talk with rtp about their vp read. besides, now that iv is a mason (i'm taking the claim at face value until proven otherwise), there's gonna have to be some re-eval from them. (and from me, realistically...)

unfortunately,

v/la for the next 48 hours.

i got 2 exams and an interview tomorrow, so i'll be spending the day preparing that shit, and i'll be spending tomorrow trying to not die. i might check in here and there, but don't expect much from me until friday morning. i'd prefer there's no hammers until i'm back, but i won't hold it against y'all too much if there is.

[Datisi]

thank you, ari, i like the song <3

and house, i'm already voting there, plus i don't want to yeet without a claim.

[Datisi]

and i'm also annoyed because i'm *hoping* we're t/t/t again, and him quelling my paranoia here would help me, and he didn't do that >_>

If you're paranoid of me, why did you state a town read so fast?

those two things are not mutually exclusive, i can recognize things that i believe are towntells from you while also being aware of the fact that i don't know how well would you be able to replicate them if you were scum

and no, i don't think he's scum, i just thought those posts would be funny if i put them next to each other

[Datisi]

Then VP goes on the defensive in 1096 and sort of just continues for a while:

what is supposed to be defensive about those posts?

[Datisi]

what was that Vigilante claim you used that made no sense?

that weak vigilante claim is the most beautiful disaster i have ever seen

[Datisi]

also yeah, i think "rtp wouldn't tank their towncred on d1 with hardpushing a newbtown, especially after claiming they are good at reading newbies" is Pretty Solid reasoning

[Datisi]

vp, why did you put laplacian under intetn?

[Datisi]

intetn

[Datisi]

vp, why did you put laplacian under intetn?

You had said you would prefer the day doesn't wrap before you finish your exams or whatever, but I probably would have hammered at that point otherwise, so stating to Laplacian if he's reading this is his last chance to speak and he can't really lurk this out anymore.

Unlike RTP, I don't think claims are useless either, so there is potential information to be gained in this waiting period.

why are you not scum with laplacian

[Datisi]

Why are you not scum with lap?

the meme answer is har har

the serious answer is

Spoiler:

VOTE: laplacian

i could give it a watch once my uni responsibilities die down a bit! if i start watching it now and it's good, i won't stop until i finish it, and that's not good news for my grades.

Okay, I'm caught up and Frogsterking's post stuck out the most for me. It feels a lot like "I made a helpful town thing, look how townie I am!".

If he posts the survey and it is legit helpful, then consider this retracted

, but until then it's blatantly grabbing for trust.
VOTE: Frogsterking

anyway, now that i'm back from my walk - this is not a town post. the bolded is what especially bugs me. *what* is the point of that? assume laplacian is town. why would he post this? why would he be giving his scumread a roadmap on how to get back on his good side? i feel like a townie here who finds the exsitence or lackthereof of the survey would wait to see if the person posts it themselves. this feels more like trying to overjustify their scumread rather than actually trying to read someone.

if this were an older player, i could see this being a reaction test of some sort, but i think it's less likely to be one coming from a new player, so.

i don't bully my newbie scum partner out of the game on *checks notes* fucking page 8

if i am about to do some complex scum theater, i will be talking my partner through every step of the way

he shut down shortly after this, that doesn't happen if we're chatting behind the scenes

[Datisi]

ftr, the reason why i asked you that is because i was aimlessly skimming though your iso earlier, i found the post where you were half-shading rtp for changing their vote from iv to lap, and to my tired brain that looked ~odd~, so i decided to ask an open-end question because they are still something i struggle with a lot

no, your answer didn't give me shit

pedit: bus bait, definitely
but look into *any* of my scum pts to see how much i plan things like this out

[Datisi]

not sure what that means, my point is that lap basically shut down shortly after i started bullying him and he attracted heat - that doesn't happen if i'm there to talk him through it on how to stand up for himself and make us look even more unaligned

also, fair, i guess, whatever - thanks to the masonry being what they are, i'm stuck here for at least two more days, so we have plenty of time to have this conversation many more times over (:

[Datisi]

Jkjk, I'm going HAM on A50.

who is the third scumfuck in your opinion?

[Datisi]

yeah, that's my problem, i'm having lowkey too many townie vibes this game which is making me enter paranoia-mode much earlier than needed

and if lap flips green, i think that's a solid sign this game is deeply fucked

[Datisi]

"why are you worrying about being wrong instead of just checking if you're wrong" shut up

[Datisi]

That would be very bad

he wrote in the main thread, then went into the scum pt to laugh with rtp and frogsterking

[Datisi]

here's a thought - i just realized skitter is like, not really doing? much? like i feel like she's lowkey faded into the background a bit. now, if lap flips red, i think that's actually town!indicative for skitter, because ~vibes~ tell me scum!her would either be more active in saving a partner or capitalizing on a bus, and not just like. doing nothing. lol. anyway.

pedit: nooooo, i'm the one dishing out the nonsense paranoia theories around here

[Datisi]

you are so wrong its kind of cute

:<

what am i wrong on? is there some skit/lap associates i'm missing?

[Datisi]

if i recall correctly, that whole thing happened while skitter was away from the game busy with irl, and it seemed like she was around a decent amount here while the suspicion on lap was brewing. unable to stop the wagon, maybe, but at least damage control and position herself...

anyway, bed time, see ya tomorrow if the day isn't over

[Datisi]

i felt that was gonna happen tbh

welp, fingers crossed i guess

[Datisi]

is "this" a50 or lap

[Datisi]

in any case, my hot take is that a50 looks bad regardless of what lap flips

you may now accuse me of chaining

ok gn for real

[Datisi]

okay. first of all, i reread this game earlier today, and these were my findings from it. and i actually stayed up past 1 am just to post them at daystart.

my Feels on the game. i bolded stuff that i want answers to.

people i think are most likely Just Town - {andres, ari, frogs, house, iv, rtp}
people i have some reasons to think are town, but are nowhere near close off the table - {skitter, vp}
poe? - {a50, s_s, ower}

people i think are town:

i'm taking the iv+house mason claim at face value until proven otherwise. ok cool moving on.

rtp is town. i don't think they push lap this hard if they're partnered. like, what is the point. this would have to be setting up some massive big brain deepwolf plays, what for. don't think it's likely.

ari and andres are town for similar reasons - they sheeped people onto lap in a very non-towncred-grabbing way, at the times where they really did not have to do it. like, why does scum andres post ANY of 593, 602, 604 at the time rtp is voting his partner? he can just as easily NOT post those posts. it's adding fuel to the fire without much gain. similarly to that, ari sheeped me on lap without question and without ever trying to divert me from him.

not only has frogs shown immense wim that i don't think is easily fakeable for scum, i stand by my point that 182 feels like lap doesn't want to get on frogs's bad side. which would mean frogs town. also, if frogs and lap are buddies, that means that the whole thing was planned from the very beginning. and you're telling me frogs would plan to have this big shitfest with his buddy, only to start casing iv at the time where it was very obvious that lap is likely to go though, and where the odds of getting an iv wagon were objectively close to none? i *really* don't think so

as for my second tier:

i've noticed a few townie things from vp in my reread. 224 feels like a Decently Complex thought process, 274 comes at a time where scum!baltar doesn't have the motivation to post it - skitt, ari, and house are making non-game-related banter. why interrupt it? then, his early-game push on frogs. at first i didn't like it, because it felt like trying to push a townie that's playing weirdly but not necessarily scummy. however, 339 and 353 don't give that impression - it feels like he's trying to actually sort frogs, there's no "he's scum" undertone.

that said, i would like a better elaboration on 1167 - in retrospect, it feels very much like a non-answer.

and also i kind of dislike the "if i die, yeet a50" like dude do you really think you're dying? really?

really

???

as for skitter - i kind of stand by my 1173. skitter was decently around during the day, and it didn't feel like she was either trying to save lap or that she was trying to look good on his flip. also, the 520-521 sequence made me feel better better about both of skitt and vp - that's the same feeling i got about vp when i read 520.

though, i would like skitter to tell me why she was scumleaning vp around 422.

is it just him having "Strong Opinions on the survey"?

the poe:

i don't think i have to say much about a50, but. i did notice around 750 that both a50 and lap were present and posting, they were the top wagons, and yet neither voted the other, or even SAID anything about the other. strong basis for the iconeum tell - two people who are both top wagons ignoring one another are likely s/s.

s_s is... meh. i don't think i actually have a solid read on anything he's done. the only thing that stuck out to me was 767, where s_s said that he didn't find the lap case convincing, but that he'd be his first choice for a vote. he never indicated having any kind of read on lap, and he never answered why when asked.

s_s, why was lap your first choice of vote here?

outworld is. hmm. like, i thought this slot was gonna end up in the mid tier for me, but the more i kept reading, the less i liked his interactions with lap. as soon as i call lap out, there's 220, where he's saying how he really thinks lap is town. but once lap is on the table, there's 880 where he's suddenly bad at reading newbies. also, 675 is eyebrow-raising in hindsight because it feels like outworld knows he has no way to actually defend lap, but wants to not give any more fuel to that wagon.

I already said that

if RTP is scum I don't think they push Lapla this hard regardless of Lapla's alignment.

When I say aggression I guess I'd expect them to be pocketing harder, prodding people a bit more, things unrelated to pushing wagons because

RTP is always aggressive when pushing wagons regardless of their alignment.

what does this mean? the two bolded lines feel like a contradiction.

what do we do now?

i want to flip a50. if he's scum, i think both vp and skitter are town. *especially* vp - posts like 457 and 491 feel like lowkey clearing if a50's red. when a buddy is being suspected (a50 was being suspected) but no vote are on them yet... you don't stick the first vote on!! that's a recipe for disaster!! yet vp does? i really don't think he does that, especially if lap was already under fire.

i think a50's partner would be either s_s or outworld, and realistically more likely outworld. like, the vc on 617 - i think it's somewhat likely there's scum pushing iv here.

if a50's to flip green... i think that means there's scum in vp/skitt. they were both pushing a50, and i *really* don't think the a50 wagon in 617 and 750 is pure.

and, if vp is red, my personal guess for the third is s_s. 772 is asking s_s why he wants to vote lap. s_s does not respond, vp does not ask again. less than three hours later, they're lolchatting (789, 790, 793). and vp is talking about investigating s_s's meta. you forgot you already asked him something to get him sorted?

[Datisi]

that being said. seeing that flip is making me *heavily* consider if we should skip step 2, go immediately to step 3, and vote vp.

i'll see what the situation is tomorrow.

[Datisi]

if a50's to flip green... i think that means there's scum in vp/skitt. they were both pushing a50, and i *really* don't think the a50 wagon in 617 and 750 is pure.

Half considering if you might be scum for this, dats.

what part of that sentence bothers you?

[Datisi]

ok so you're telling me

you just saw me lead the charge on scum, in a way that is counter to both my personality and my scum!meta

and you're having issues with me "chaining" flips instead of actually getting into the argument of what i was saying

[Datisi]

you called me town on day one for mysterious reasons that you partly didn't want to elaborate on

my play around laplacian is as clearing as it fucking gets

and yet you're ignoring all that because i am... "chaining"? without even saying what the error of my thoughts is (i haven't read the game yet other than like, that one post, but the fact that the only thing you repeat at me is me chaining instead of actually scum's behaviour is concerning)

[Datisi]

Dat I don’t see your answer to the Lap wagon pure or not.

you'd see it if you bothered to read the wallpost readslist i posted first thing today. a50 very much looked like a partner hammering out of desperation, everyone else's vote looked Good.

[Datisi]

you just saw me lead the charge on scum, in a way that is counter to both my personality and my scum!meta

This is malarkey. You play to win.

and what part of "initiating a push on a partner on page 8 for a post most others didn't think is scummy, pushing him the whole day and actively pointing out his meta, then killing a person that had me as locktown and that would've been real great to use in keeping you, who actually knows a thing or two about my play, on the edges" says "playing to win" exactly?

[Datisi]

and you're having issues with me "chaining" flips instead of actually getting into the argument of what i was saying

The argument you are setting up is "let's flip a50, and if he flips green ( which he will), let's flip vp and skitter".

That seems like a bad look.

ALSO, you posted a read on a dead RTP, which I have a hard time believing you didn't seen before posting. That's a little LAMIST.

"let's flip the person i think is scummy as fuck, but if he flips green, i think there are scum in the people that were pushing him instead of laplacian on day one"

BAD LOOK

and also. the day was supposed to start at half past midnight for me. i was dead tired at 10:30pm because the construction down my street woke me up yesterday morning. i stayed up studying biology so that i could be up when the day started. then half past midnight passed, and the day want starting. i went to bed, but tried to not fail asleep immediately. i had that copy pasted, and i did not feel like deleting that post considering it was ONE AM and i was on the verge of fucking passing out

[Datisi]

a50 very much looked like a partner hammering out of desperation, everyone else's vote looked Good.

This is worth reconsidering if you are town.

this feels like mech... as said, i didn't read the game, i saw that one post of yours and decided to respond to it because it felt *that* bad

[Datisi]

I'm just saying, even if you wrote the post over night, deleting an obviously unnecessary paragraph is not work. The alternative is you didn't see the flip, which I doubt

i saw the flip. that is why, right after hitting submit, i commented on the flip.

i don't delete unnecessary parts of posts like that because i think there's value in people seeing my thought process before the flip. call me lamist if you want, you know it's not scum! indicative for me. i can show precedent for this if you really think you have a great point here.

"but you just said you didn't delete it because you were lazy" yeah that too. two great reasons to not delete it. amazing

[Datisi]

WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE BUSSING SCUM

i'm gonna get up, get a coffee, and then try to read this shitfest

[Datisi]

Hiiiii Dats <3

hi ari <3 it's looking like you will be the only one that keeps me sane this game

[Datisi]

WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE BUSSING SCUM

i'm gonna get up, get a coffee, and then try to read this shitfest

Come on now....

i know i am the one that says "why do they always bus" but so many votes looked so non-bussy that i don't think it's out the realm of possibility

[Datisi]

Give me somethin otherwise you’re looking a saucy place to vote

you have my whole iso, and a wallpost summarizing my thoughts on the game. New Thoughts will have to wait until i have gotten out of bed and actually read the 10 or so pages i missed, which is going to be a while.

[Datisi]

How did you do on your interview/exams Datisi?

it went alright. the interview ended up being extremely easy (should mention, i was the interview

er

), got a C on one test, waiting on results from the other one.

RTP rocked d1, no way he was vigged.

*they (i'm not quoting every single instance this happened but my god)

also house is definitely still town
if the team is house/iv/lap, that claim is kodak-moment-worthy but like. no.

frog/vp is not a team
frog is also town

I would be very surprised if A50 is mafia in this game

where did this come from?

nevermind i see the response - what part of his game on d1 felt townie to you?

I am at the bar and not reading the thread tonight. In case it wasn't clear, Mathblade is confirmed town. Also, we are not yeeting me today.

Ari and datisi are the most likely candidates for scum.

*breathe in*

okay, i will be assuming that this is some sort of pr fuckery because absolutely nothing else makes sense. i have ideas, but i'll keep them to myself.

i... sigh. i really don't think that scum!vp decides to lock himself into a pr claim and save an easy misyeet, and instead turn his attention towards me. i think scum!him would know that is a fight he is very much *not* winning. there is like... one scenario that i can think of that would make him scum here, and it's still not likely i think. and before you ask, "what if they're partners?", (1) i highly doubt they do this, (2) i already explained how d1 vp/a50 makes no sense. ok cool.

[Datisi]

this also fucking sucks because my read rate on mathblade is unironically Really Good and i think i would've been able to figure him out here given time

sads

[Datisi]

ari sheeped me on lap without question and without ever trying to divert me from him.

Ari was fourth on that wagon or something right? This feels like a very questionable townread to me.

Yesterday you agreed with my assessment that Lap was bus bait. So...why wouldn't this be a suspect in a bus to you?

Additionally, do you think the Lap wagon was pure?

ari was fourth on that wagon, sure, but she was also second on that wagon right after i voted him originally - all she did on day 1 was sheep my vote. and the reason why i don't think she's scum because it just doesn't *feel* like a bus. her vote is helping move the wagon along, but she's not gaining any cred from it whatsoever. that's the reason why i don't think we had a lot of bus votes - votes like andres and ari were made in ways where they do not give towncred, and those players showed no trying to divert. like, that's how i imagine bus-votes. either the busser is making a show out of it so that they get as much towncred as possible, or they're looking for someone else to vote. ari specifically, i know she's anti-bus. i don't think she would've been playing this game by blindly sheeping me on a scum vote without even trying to divert my attention away, what does she gain with it?

I think the RTP kill was possibly a paranoia kill by datisi!scum. On D1, Datisi mentioned he is aware of RTP's tendency to claim a townread on someone and then flip the script. Then at some point on D1, RTP said "never yeet datisi until xylo" or whatever. I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility that a scum was just in a relatively safe position and wanted a wildcard out of the way.

(:
(((:
why would i mention that if i was gonna kill them
why do i instead not get rid of the confirmed town that i know is prone to scumreading me
i mean i'm not gonna say "i never n1 people that are townreading me" because i very much do that, but i do that when they're a danger to my team, so unless you wanna argue we're sumbuddies...

I had no sense RTP was going to be tunneling me at all as opposed to wanting to yeet a50.

also
you have seen me employ the tactic of "leave tunneled townie alive, let them lead the charge on a misflip, kill them next night"
why do i kill rtp here

[Datisi]

ALSO, you posted a read on a dead RTP, which I have a hard time believing you didn't seen before posting. That's a little LAMIST.

in case you are actually convinced that this is a thing only scumtisi does - here is an example of town!me leaving in the parts about flipped townies because i am not letting that work go to waste goddammit (also here's my flip if you're too lazy to check)

[Datisi]

Laplacian

(7):

Reformed Toxic Player

, Andresvmb, Datisi, Aristeia, House, Frogsterking, Almost50
Almost50 (2): VP Baltar, skitter30
innocentvillager (1): OutWorldER
Frogsterking (1):

Laplacian

Datisi (1): innocentvillager

Not Voting (1): Something_Smart

i'm gonna stand behind what i said. a50's vote BY FAR looks most bus-like here. if he's town, tough shit, he has crappy associates with flipped scum. no, i'm not about to say the slot is scum.

i strongly townread house and frogsterking independently. i don't think scum!house claims mason with iv to stop the wagon if he's scum and iv is town. and if they're partners, i still don't think he does it because then he's *really* tied to his buddy and no. also, his early on push on me was waaay too out there for scum. frogs has shown insane levels of wim that i don't think come from scum. lap was afraid of frogs scumreading him for his vote. and the interactions otherwise make no sense as s/s - what scum makes a huge fucking case, the partner says they're gonna respond to it but then don't (shows fear of further townspewing frogs), and then frogs changes course last-minute to push iv? makes no sense, unless frogs is the most big brain big balls scum here. and odds are he's not.

ari and andres have admittedly weak votes on lapla. but those weak votes make no sense as bussing votes. what do scum!andres or scum!ari gain by blindly sheeping me/rtp onto the wagon, and not even trying to divert any attention elsehwere? they're not getting towncred for the vote, they're not opening the door for any other yeet, they're not setting up shit, they're just gamethrowing.

i will admit that i skipped over all of house and iv's posts during the night because i wasn't trying to read them, so maybe house's vote would maybe make sense as a bus, but again. i townread him independently, and he's not a priority right now.

[Datisi]

i get why me saying "a50 is most likely scum, if he's town then it's in vp/skitter" looks unfortunate if you're town and you have info on a50 being town. like, i get it. but look at everything else that points at me being town - i can go through each and every one of my scumgames on site to show why this isn't how i play around my partners. iv can vouch for the sheer level of planning i do as scum, especially when we're planning theatre. lapla fell apart, that doesn't happen if i'm there.

i'm not sure that i was

completely

wrong in my assessment, though.

VOTE: skitter

i remember skitter once saying how she's rather going to kill a vt that has dangerous views on the gamestate than a person she knows is a power role. i at first thought how this kill indicated scum in house/iv, since that's how scum could know the masons aren't real, but not necessarily.

[Datisi]

I would totally gamethrow for you

>_>

for legal reasons, i do not buy this

[Datisi]

i will admit that i skipped over all of house and iv's posts during the night because i wasn't trying to read them, so maybe house's vote would maybe make sense as a bus, but again. i townread him independently, and he's not a priority right now.

Sure. I fake claimed Mason to prevent the Lap wagon from getting derailed because I was just that dedicated to kill my buddy.

You got me.

they asked me which vote i find most likely to be a bus besides a50. i looked at everyone else's vote and don't find them to be bus-like, i did not look at yours, that's all i'm saying. again, i highly highly doubt you're actually scum here

[Datisi]

I don't think VPB claimed PR if that's what you think he did

No, but he softed the shit out of it.

i really REALLY don't think baltar of either alignment goes from "kill a50" to "a50 is conftown" without some sort of mech info, and i don't think this is exactly rocket surgery for scum to figure out either, which is why i'm fine talking about it with this level of openness

[Datisi]

Ari was fourth on that wagon or something right? This feels like a very questionable townread to me.

Yesterday you agreed with my assessment that Lap was bus bait. So...why wouldn't this be a suspect in a bus to you?

furthermore, what do you think the plan is in this scum world? ari and i enter the game flirting with each other, bully our partner out of the game on, again, page fucking 8, and...? like WHY

[Datisi]

I thought Baltar!scum was TMIing off the force replace to say it was town tbh

and what mech info would baltar!scum need? he starts with a list of the townies to begin with.

Moreover I really don't think a kill lands on RTP if Baltar is town because RTP is probably going to try to yeet Baltar into the sun today if they were alive.

i don't see why scum!baltar changes the story from a50 being scum (when he sees that i'm down to yeet a50) into a50 being locktown for ~reasons~ and attacking me

like, one possible way that happens is that if vp saw that i will have my eyes on him after a50 flips green, got scared, and decided to bullshit a townread on a50 in order to pre-empt me scumreading him by pushing me today... but that's still basically locking yourself in a pr claim (i don't think he can believably explain the shift in any other way)...

eh, idk, i guess i can maybe sorta if-i-take-my-glasses-off-and-squint see this being a possible scenario, but /shrug. the day is young.

[Datisi]

so we can have the scum pt all to ourselves dear

please stop giving him ideas >_>

[Datisi]

i don't see why scum!baltar changes the story from a50 being scum (when he sees that i'm down to yeet a50) into a50 being locktown for ~reasons~ and attacking me

wait, i'm stupid, i forgot i posted the "actually the nk makes me sus of vp" before he started attacking me

hmm
my vote stays on skitter for the time being but this universe is not as completely and utterly unlikely as i first thought

baltar, i'm gonna need some actual explanation on why you completely switched your read on me other than "hurr durr datisi chaining" because like

[Datisi]

it's still basically giving up an ~easy~ misyeet in order to pre-emptively push me, though...

[Datisi]

he didn't know who was gonna rep in at the time, and a50 is much easier to misyeet in this

economy

gamestate than i am

and please don't, i don't even know what my baltar read IS right now

[Datisi]

"very likely town with the outside chance of scum doing an ultimate hail mary" is probably the answer

i'm gonna go eat something, should stop prioritizing mafia over meals

[Datisi]

I don't think OWER kills RTP when RTP was hard defending OWER yesterday

this is the reason why i don't want to go after ower right now, but if say, skitt flipped scum or something, i could see that kill being made regardless of partner

[Datisi]

i dont see lap voting me with scum!andre already there, if u look at the earlier VC. i thought newbscum were paranoid about distancing.

for what it's worth, out of reasons to consider andres town, this doesn't feel like an actually good one, i don't think the fact andres was memevoting you would make lap not want to vote there if they're partnered

[Datisi]

why did you give up on questioning ari that quickly?

[Datisi]

god this is stupid

if my scum plan is to flip a50, then once he flips green, turn that into a scumcase for vp and skitt, why the fuck do i say that plan outloud day 2 instead of pretending to reread the game "in light of green!a50" day 3 and come to that conclusion then

this just opens the door for me being accused of chaining, which is something i'm well aware as scum and wouldn't do it

even if i didn't get accused of it today, someone would've made the callback tomorrow once i started pushing vp and/or skitt

and i love how all of this completely ignores the preflip i did on a50 flipping red, yep sure definitely single minded here totally just put my scumplan out there and now i'm going shocked pikachu face for being pushed for things i know towns find scummy and that would actually be LESS EFFORT for scum me to NOT POST

BRILLIANT

[Datisi]

ari and andres have admittedly weak votes on lapla. but those weak votes make no sense as bussing votes. what do scum!andres or scum!ari gain by blindly sheeping me/rtp onto the wagon, and not even trying to divert any attention elsehwere?

they're not getting towncred for the vote,

they're not opening the door for any other yeet, they're not setting up shit, they're just gamethrowing.

Isn't this literally what you're doing right now?

I agree they are non-controlling of the wagon, but ari was always going to sheep you D1 as meta. If that sheep happens to go onto a weak buddy, that seems like something that is going to be considered town-indicative generally. I have a hard time imagining a world where Ari in particular comes out double barreled on D1 and people aren't asking questions about her meta, at least from what I saw last game with her. I find it somewhat weird you have no paranoia or suspicion of the Lap wagon having bus potential when he just straight spaghettied himself and then left the thread at the mildest pressure.

That reads a lot to me like you wanting to keep townies happy.

sure. but that's always the issue in mafia - "what if that's what they *want* you to think?". i'm faced with the choice of having to decide whether this is town!ari who lolvoted alongside me, or if this is scum!ari who bussed a partner the second i indicated wanting to vote there, didn't try to save him at any point, didn't try to make a point of how much she's bussing, didn't try to divert elsewhere.

i know it would be sort of suspicious if she started going straight up against me, but hell, she had no problems voting for me in rvs. means she's not immune from voting me.

saying that i didn't have paranoia of lapla being bussed is false - i called out a shitty hammer on him when i saw it. but if we wanna talk today. house and frogster are ubertown, ari and andres have such weird votes, rtp is dead, and mathblade is allegedly confirmed town. we can talk about bussing all we want, but scumteams sometimes fall apart on day one.

ALSO, the "wanting to keep townies happy" line is ridiculous, WHO am i trying to keep happy here?? you and mathblade??? by going against your "there's scum on the wagon" and going "no! we should be voting skitter!! i don't think there's scum on the wagon if it's not math!!!" are you listening to yourself

[Datisi]

why did you give up on questioning ari that quickly?

Who me?

yeah you

you asked ari if she's scum, and once she was like "nope!" you were like "understandable, have a nice day"

[Datisi]

You can post it if you want, but that line of thought is mostly a waste for me. I don't think it's unreasonable for scum to speculate they could get a50/me flipped in either order with few questions from a town that is highly suggestable.

i'm saying it would've been 10x easier for scum me to do
d2: yeah i wanna flip a50
d3: whoops a50 was town but vp/skitt look kinda scummy amirite

instead of
d2: i think a50 is the next flip and here is analysis that i spent a few hours on detailing where and why i want to go if he were to flip red or green

the second scenario is extra effort for me and the only thing it does is opens me up for "datisi were you chaining???" down the line

[Datisi]

WHO am i trying to keep happy here??

Ari and andres obv if they are town are part of the coalition I'd be trying to form if I was in your shoes. It is potentially a pocketing play to say "welp, nothing to see here, let's yeet this potential busser a50, and if that is wrong, the wagon of a weak ass scum is pure and we should turn to VP".

That's a pretty obvious strategy in a scum!datisi world.

andres and ari

the dude that is barely even playing, and someone whose only purpose in the game seems to be sheeping me ALREADY, both people that have next to none influence on the thread as a whole

that is exactly who i'd be wasting my time pocketing here

especially after just killing someone who had me as lock!town

[Datisi]

sorry if i'm being unpleasant here but a<febkugsrl<nbw i'm frustrated that you're dropping take after take on scum!me that so obviously seem *completely* disconnected from reality from my point of view

[Datisi]

ari, who is scum?

[Datisi]

the dude that is barely even playing, and someone whose only purpose in the game seems to be sheeping me ALREADY, both people that have next to none influence on the thread as a whole

You and I both know this is not true, especially in the long term. Both ari and andres are good players who DO influence the game, especially in later days.

@Math - I do see you think this fight is TvT, and you may be right, but I do think it is important to have. Giving Datisi a free pass is danger zone. His point of view needs to be thoroughly stress tested.

both of them had a townread on me
ari is literally being my doublevoter
there's no immediate gain to pocketing either of them because they're both on my side already

stress test me all you want, the only reason you are even suspecting me is because i'm not a paragon and i wasn't gonna have a 100% read rate this game for thinking a50 is scum, which, by the way, IS SOMETHING YOU TOO THOUGHT YESTERDAY

[Datisi]

@frogs

why did you give up on questioning ari that quickly?

Who me?

yeah you

you asked ari if she's scum, and once she was like "nope!" you were like "understandable, have a nice day"

[Datisi]

ari, who is scum?

<skitter - iv - vpb>

why do you think skitt is scum, and no "i'm sheeping you" as an answer

[Datisi]

@frogsterking

@frogs

why did you give up on questioning ari that quickly?

Who me?

yeah you

you asked ari if she's scum, and once she was like "nope!" you were like "understandable, have a nice day"

[Datisi]

*blinks*

have you considered like

using words

[Datisi]

The mafia have daytalk.

i could see someone telling lap to shut the fuck up, but i don't think it required a galaxy brain from the scum side to realize that is going to flip

[Datisi]

i don't think it required a galaxy brain from the scum side to realize that is going to flip

I don't think it was set in stone though, or at least I didn't, not to the point where radio silence and antispew is preferable to at least trying to stir up some chaos.

you're talking about a newbscum spewing chaos

dude was too afraid to respond to frogs's case because it was gonna spew frogs town even harder, and i recall lapla being online

i think it's not unlikely he just froze

[Datisi]

was anyone actually thinking a50's slot was cleared because of the force-repout? i sure wasn't

[Datisi]

s_s, have you done a single ai thing this game?

[Datisi]

baltar, how do you feel about my skitter vote?

[Datisi]

Skitter and VP are the only ones I realistically could see killing RTP

why do you think this?

[Datisi]

i'm not sure if i like the fact that s_s apparently only wants to comment on math using math wrong, when i feel like he's lowkey misrepping the "this group of 5 probs has scum in it" argument. like it felt to me that math was saying that it's likely there's scum in it *because* they're voting together in rvs (which is not something i agree with but whatever) and s_s had to butt in with "well achckually that's true for any group of 5" ok cool do you have any actual opinions on the game?

like i know s_s isn't big on Producing Solves and stuff like that, but we've had a scumflip, a retracted claim, a newly made claim, do you have Any thoughts on people's alignments here??

[Datisi]

When the night started, actually even before then, I was wondering about something very curious. It basically became common knowledge in this game that Lap was flipping scum. There is no way that anyone can justifiably be that confident D1; some of it came from Koba, but I feel like there was someone on the scumteam who was highly in tune with the game and was basically telling Lap "you're dead, stop posting".

As I say this I realize I should check daytalk, but... it was almost surreal the way scum-Lap was just beamed into everyone's brains like it was Star Trek.

ok i guess this post was technically A Thought. but like, only half a point because it talks in abstracts and reaches no conclusions.

[Datisi]

i was gonna write "mathblade calling me/vp t/t while we were fighting probably means he's town, unless he is scum with exactly baltar" and then i remembered lmao

[Datisi]

oh yeah, outworld, pls read 1209 and respond to the part addressed to you

[Datisi]

if you go on mafiascum wiki page on rolefishing, it has 1628 listed as an example

[Datisi]

("wow datisi, you said frogs was town and now you're calling him--" i still think he's town shut up i just think baltar has enough brain to check the normals wiki page and know if something is a 100% piece of info or not and that frogs shouldn't be questioning that rn)

[Datisi]

i think the more useful tell is "see if anyone seems certain on why rtp died"

however, the first thing i then think of is baltar's "here is why rtp is totally a kill made by scum!datisi" which hmm

[Datisi]

i am in the mood to argue with someone about nonsense that is the game of mafia, but i don't think i currently have anything to argue *about*

[Datisi]

you know, i DO want to believe in the "scum did literally nothing on d1", i really do

but the world isn't that kind to me

[Datisi]

how is that post not a rolefish

"frogster didn't intend it to be one" doesn't mean it's not one

[Datisi]

i am in the mood to argue with someone about nonsense that is the game of mafia, but i don't think i currently have anything to argue *about*

Your estimated best guess solve rn now is skitter and SS, right?

absolute gun-to-head, yes

[Datisi]

Doesn't it? I thought rolefishing had to be intentional.

no, it doesn't? just because you didn't think what you were doing is anti-town or you didn't intend to try to get another person to reveal more about their role, doesn't mean you didn't... do that

[Datisi]

i am in the mood to argue with someone about nonsense that is the game of mafia, but i don't think i currently have anything to argue *about*

Your estimated best guess solve rn now is skitter and SS, right?

absolute gun-to-head, yes

to add to this, i think outworld looks worse overall than s_s, *but* outworld gets a few townie points for being townread by the n1 kill
(pedit: without reading the above post)

[Datisi]

though, i'm skeptical if outworld enters the day with "vp and skitter are the only ones that kill rtp, vp is posting badly but he's town so let me vote my partner instead huehuehue" like

imagine if the team actually is ari and andres and i'm being an idiot ahahahaa

[Datisi]

ari and andres are town for similar reasons - they sheeped people onto lap in a very non-towncred-grabbing way, at the times where they really did not have to do it. like, why does scum andres post ANY of 593, 602, 604 at the time rtp is voting his partner? he can just as easily NOT post those posts. it's adding fuel to the fire without much gain. similarly to that, ari sheeped me on lap without question and without ever trying to divert me from him.

ari was fourth on that wagon, sure, but she was also second on that wagon right after i voted him originally - all she did on day 1 was sheep my vote. and the reason why i don't think she's scum because it just doesn't *feel* like a bus. her vote is helping move the wagon along, but she's not gaining any cred from it whatsoever. that's the reason why i don't think we had a lot of bus votes - votes like andres and ari were made in ways where they do not give towncred, and those players showed no trying to divert. like, that's how i imagine bus-votes. either the busser is making a show out of it so that they get as much towncred as possible, or they're looking for someone else to vote. ari specifically, i know she's anti-bus. i don't think she would've been playing this game by blindly sheeping me on a scum vote without even trying to divert my attention away, what does she gain with it?

ari and andres have admittedly weak votes on lapla. but those weak votes make no sense as bussing votes. what do scum!andres or scum!ari gain by blindly sheeping me/rtp onto the wagon, and not even trying to divert any attention elsehwere? they're not getting towncred for the vote, they're not opening the door for any other yeet, they're not setting up shit, they're just gamethrowing.

[Datisi]

my one and only argument for andres!town is "his vote is neither towncred-gaining nor is he looking for a different wagon, and i think scum would be doing either of that"

i don't know how correct i am in that assessment

[Datisi]

can you NOT quickhammer a townie person while i'm asleep next time? thaaaanks.

[Datisi]

and baltar didn't get to post during twilight! beautiful! amazing!!