Im sorry... you implicity referred to me in that post.....
Dont be an idiot about it....
________________________________________________________________
Originally, I said I would post a player by player analysis, but the further I got with the Adel/Spyrex pairing, the more I seen them as scum over others.
SPYREX...(Isolated posts)
D1..
Post 2, and Spyrex weighs in with his " Why massclaim D1?"
This is consistent with his lover.
Post 5, and Spyrex places a vote on Gimbo after his "I’m scum" claim.
Nothing scumlike here. but the part at the bottom is interesting in a retrospective way...
"5.) (And this gets me) You've created a situation where, if you WERE actually town, you've lost the game for us if it goes to day 2 and you are alive. Guess who I'd vote for? Hint - its you. That means, by your own logic, my partner would and then all the scums sure as hell would. "
In hindsight, Spyrex has set his D2 target, if Gimbo survives D1...
Post 9, "Gimbo, you are a hoot but coming out
claiming scum is just nuts.
So, Captain Crazy is a term of endearment."
Post 11, "Now, you with that
amazing scum claim,
setup a situation where, if you are town, you've all but doomed the town to a loss if you survive today"
Both bolded parts imply you seem to know otherwise Spyrex.
Post 12, "If Gimbo IS town, we will lose this game. Call me a prophet, for I have deemed it so." & "Of course, like I said, after this gambit if Gimbo IS town he has, unquestionably, lost the game for us. So, there we are."
Post 13, "So, in case you can't see it; by claiming scum and having US be the ones to attack you for it you have setup back-to-back lynches of us and you in some fashion."
Post 17, "More than the massclaim, its the scumclaim. That gambit, in most setups, would be a total WIFOM that might work. In this one, I feel it is a much better setup for scum than for town to pull a stunt like that."
The 3 last quoted posts all reinforce that Spyrex is going to vote Gimbo if he survives D1.
Although at the time, Gimbo's play was terrible, Spyrex did not need to re-utter this point in the space of 4 posts.
I get the feeling that if Gimbo was still with us, Adel would not have him cleared, and Spyrex was committed to him anyway.
In post 22, Spyrex states that massclaiming was a bad thing for town and a good thing for scum... To date, this has not been proven by either of the pair.
In Post 24, Spyrex now states that he will not be voting for Gimbo if he survives D1... but he also states....
"After my reread tomorrow(probably late), I will be putting my vote back on Gimbo. I, at that point, do not care if it is the hammer. It is happening."
This is a promise, a commitment, and after leaving room for discussion, he has left no scope to alter his thinking, regardless if he seen Adels' post on CF or not. Spyrex subsequently has stated that he would have changed his vote if he saw Adel's post on CF... I firmly believe, that after both of them stated how stupid they would have looked if they did change their votes, they would not have...
Post 25, "I've said, after my reread tonight, I'm putting my vote back there, hammer or not. I took it off to help with discussion, that is all. "
And if discussion changed in the shape of who would be lynched, then what???
Post 27, and as promised, places Gimbo at -L1.. his lover not too far behind, hammers....
D2
Post 28... "Ok, I'll finish up my synopsis today.
DO NOT VOTE - FoS's and the like. We don’t want to get to 2 and, if we're wrong, go boom.
If someone, while I'm gone, wants to show all the possible pairings, that might help."
This post echoes his partners request for others to post lists of pairings...
Post 29, sees Spyrex give thoughts on D1, but most notably, asks why no-one noticed HIS partners post on lynching CF.
Also claims to not wanting to do anything rash....
Again, Spyrex echoes his partners thoughts very closely, about the no mentioning of the CF lynch.
In the next post, Spyrex questions CF about the proposed lynch of him. Also claims to have no firm opinions yet.
"But, yes, as town I could actually see getting myself lynched to have a mostly confirmed town on lylo ESPECIALLY in this setup. "
Why didn't this come before Gimbo's lynch? Ah, yes.. you didn't see it.....
To me, this is bussing of scum. The pressure after the fact, and the subsequent clearing of CF/Chenhsi from Spyrex & Adel... All too scumlike imo.
Post 35, and Spyrex sees Zeek/HP as the "least likely" suspects on his list. Also points to CF/Chenhsi as being the most likely scum pairing.
Post 36, and after votes have been placed by other, Spyrex sensibly asks for all to stop, and discuss...
Post 37, still happy with placing a vote on CF/Chenhsi..
Post 43, and Spyrex again bemoans the fact that no-one brought up Adels case on CF... not even him...
These posts contain echoing of earlier comments, a pattern all too familiar with Spyrex at this stage.
While he may not seem the scummiest up to this point, he fails to commit to anything at the end of his long posts, saying he needs more re-reads, input from others, etc, etc.. Yet, D1.. he was pretty much the committed type...
A change of tact, definitely....
Post 45, "
This isn't us pushing a vote, this isn't us trying to shape and mould the minds of the town - it is just data. If, when its all done Adel lays down her case and people just start voting I would be seriously irritated. Discussion is going to be the key because we can't afford to make any sense." & "I say Zeek is the single person I find townie "...
Imo, this pairing have manipulated the way most people have thought from D1, up until the point Shy Guy replaced in.
Shy Guy has attacked this pairing and everything they said beforehand, seems to have gone by the wayside, including the "Lets not vote" notion....
There’s also the small note about where Spyrex sees Zeek at this time.
Post 48, and Spyrex is starting to change his mind on Zeek, for attacking Adel...
"If my hammering of Gimbo is going to be the great point in which the crux of this is brought up I am going to be sad. Hell, if I was truly a prophet day 1 and this goes down the way its shaping up to I am going to be sad. "
Appeal to emotion, and the instant reversal of thinking of Zeek, and mentioning HP's erratic behaviour D1, only after Zeek attacks his partner, Adel.
In 54, Spyrex cannot see what all the fuss was about around the Gimbo lynch, yet both him and Adel, since the Gimbo lynch, have seemed very regrettable about the whole thing, yet both question why no-one posted thoughts on Adels initial post. The fact that Adel placed the hammer 9 posts after she posted her reasoning on having CF lynched, left no room for discussion, couple this with the promises that both delivered, it may not have changed their mind. I firmly believe it would not have changed their minds.
Both posts 24 & 25 of Spyrex tell us a completely different story...
Post 55, and Spyrex, in response to Shy Guys analysis of the game, accuses him of coming into the game with an agenda, to remove A/S pairing from the game, regardless of alignment.
I think, looking back, that Shy Guy did indeed focus a lot on Adel, but its not without merit from the time he replaced in.
There is plenty of reasons to suspect both, as I’m pointing out here.
The OMGUS reaction of Shy Guy " having an agenda" pre-replacing in, is, imo, very weak.
In 57, Spyrex again states that he did "clear" Zeek at one stage, but also states he was very hesitant about it, the fact he named Zeek over others, means he was more hesitant about the rest of the players... At any point in the game, every player, town, of course, is hesitant to confirm/clear anyone.
59, and Spyrex states that any suspicion anyone has over his pairing in relation the hammer is weak...
Rubbish, both of you committed to it, and failed to follow up on what’s been pushed in D2, why no-one went after CF.
Post 64, and Spyrex, who 16 posts earlier was more sure of Zeek than any other player of being town, places his vote on him. Funnily enough, Spyrex singles 2 players out that he was undecided about voting for, Shy Guy & Zeek...
Even funnier is the fact that both of them launched attacks on his love pairing.
Post 65, "If we lose this game because we get hammered, I apologize in advance for that. I got too busy and was too tired to finish my analysis and hammered when I said I would. It was obviously a good case and it should have been taken up.
As it is, my vote is down. I'm interested to see on what’s going to happen from here."
Another appeal to emotion, and the confirmation of a vote being laid down...
This after Spyrex wanted to wait until his partner, Adel, finished her "list" before committing anywhere.
Post 66, "I don’t know if its a mistake or what, but I sure do not agree with what I said earlier based on the last few pages so."
WTF?? Was there a need for this.... This is a poor attempt at making something you firmly believed in so strongly at one point, seem rather bemusing at another. So much for waiting to see what "fruits" your partner has with her tedious list....
Post 67, "I don’t mind her voting with me. I should have finished my read before voting."
Of course you don’t... it hammered a townie.
To say you didn't finish your read means nothing, its equally probable that you did read it, and simply ignored it.
Post 68 sees Spyrex giving reasons why has changed his view on Zeek, and offers lines on why Zeek has attacked Adel... which are the same reasons he's voting for Zeek.... Claims the timing of Zeeks attacks on Adel are questionable.
Personally, most of what Zeek has mentioned is also included in what I am posting. I also see these reasons as Adel/Spyrex being scum. It is Spyrex's attack here which is odd, as he doesn't give any. It like a very thick OMGUS post.
Post 73, and Spyrex defends his partners actions, and questions anyone who's suspicious of her, why they are.
A big part of the suspicion on Adel, imo, is the fact that after all the questioning she has done, she has deflected away from questions directed at her, claiming she cannot give the same details as she has asked of others.
TBH, I cannot see what this info would give scum, in the way of help to win the game.
The fact that CF was chosen by Adel, who was earlier a huge suspect of Adels, and continued to be into D2, reeks of scum.
____________________________________________________________________
ADEL...(Isolated posts)
D1..
Post 4 contradicts post 1 + 3. 1 + 3 both question why a massclaim should take place in D1, and post 4 gives some good reasoning for it???
Post 10 and Adel claims it will "be harder for her" to catch scum. Also refuses to give thoughts on a hypothetical question about being scum. Also re-iterates that scum will be the biggest proponent of a D1 massclaim.
Post 17 re-iterates it will "be harder for her" to catch scum.
Post 20, further identifies this game as starting similar to the last Polygamist game. Claims that she and Spyrex conversed pre-game that scum would be the biggest "shouters" of a massclaim. There’s a very good possibility that this plan to out scum from the start, actually turns out to be town.. which is what happened.
Post 22 and Adel states that "In general terms a massclaim has neither a net positive or net negative effect for the players of this setup", but then adds in the same paragraph " The widespread and mistaken belief in the first run of this game was that it was a good idea".. Another contradiction...
Post 23... "Why are you eager to paint me as being anti-town? You are the one who forced your decision to claim upon
the rest of the town
before there was widespread agreement." THE REST OF TOWN????
Post 27
unvote, vote: KNIGHT42 until he answers the question from this post.
Another inconsistency, as is showed later on in the game.. Wants questions answered, but is unwilling to do so herself.
Post 32 "hey, SpyreX, would you mind unvoting? We can hammer together in 48 hours or so. "
It gets interesting what happens in between this and the hammer on Gimbo.
Post 33 "I think a better question, if you are town, is who is trying to set us up to responsibility for your lynch?"
This is directed to Gimbo after he asks what will happen after he flips town...
Post 32 & 33 are really strange... Adel promises to hammer, then asks who is setting them up to lynch what turns out to be a townie.... Add this to post 23, and untownlike knowledge is displayed here...
Posts 35/36 asks Chelseafan & Chenhsi if they are willing to vote for Gimbo but in 37 states she is only looking for a yes or no...
Post 38 "Why are you willing to lynch him if 4 other pairs of players are also willing to lynch him?"
Yet Adel & Spyrex do the exact thing Adel questions CF/Chenhsi of???
Post 40, Votes CF.. Post 41, Gives reasoning that if CF is lynched and turns up town, then
obviously
Gimbo is too.. Post 42, responds to Gimbo about what Scum would do pregame, and at the start of the game... "During the pregame we would determine who was going to claim lover with whom. I would go along with an early massclaim, keep a low profile, posting more than 30% of other players, just enough to avoid being identified as a lurker. I would also go along with the first reasonable wagon, or exploit an early mistake by another player, with the goal of getting the first real wagon to go through to lynch. "
Regardless of what game was before, its very reasonable to suggest that either method.. Yours or what actually happened, Gimbo being town looking for a massclaim D1, would happen. The fact that Adel tried to ram home that it was scum, early on and subsequently through D1, who would try for a D1 massclaim doesn't sit easily. The fact of the matter was it was a townie. Post 44, and Adel is questioned on her logic, and states...
"The only way I can disprove the logical conclusion resulting from this train of thought is to actually vote to lynch Gimbo, which I am willing to do. I would rather lynch him today rather than tomorrow, because if he survives today's
eventual Chelseafan lynch
then I will be awfully sure that he is town."
Willing to lynch Gimbo, and Eventual Chelseafan lynch? Both in the same sentence.....
This is another contradictory post.. You say the only way to prove your logic is to lynch Gimbo, but if he survives that you'd be awfully sure he was town????
Post 47, and Adel points to a Chelseafan lynch being the one that town should opt for..
But in 49... Gimbo receives the hammer....
Between 9 posts a case was made on building a lynch towards Chelseafan, and the ultimate lynch of Gimbo...
As I’ve expressed in earlier posts around this time, I was uneasy about what had happened, looking back and seeing what’s happened since, this sticks out like a sore thumb. More to the point.. sticks out like scum.
D2...
Post 51, and Adel is feeling pissed at herself for not insisting on the CF case....
Really??? It didn't show in the nonchalant hammer tbh...
Post 52, and Adel refuses to rule out anybody as scum, and asks for others to post their thoughts on who they think are town.
Post 53, Adel sticks a vote on CF... No reasoning.
Post 54, Adel sticks her vote on Forbidden, for changing her mind about not wanting to place a vote on CF.
Post 55... "I'm happy with my vote. I listened to my lover last time and abandoned the Chelsea wagon, so I'm going to follow my own understanding of where this game is at and follow what I feel is the best course of action.
Does anyone else want to follow me on the forbiddanlight wagon?"
The last 3 posts are horrible, and are very trap-like imo.... At this stage of the game, manipulation by Adel is increasing, and does so further when she asks for everyone to co-operate with the "list" she planned on creating to catch scum.
Post 56, another question is asked, and a deflected answer is given...
Post 61, and after several posts questioning Forbiddens participation in other games, Adel calls for all to participate in naming who they are "confident in" as being town. She also assures all that with 100% partcipation town stand a 60% chance of winning.
The word "confident" should not have been used here imo, the fact was, and still is that no-one can be confident of anyone else, except for the alignment of their partner. Confident, as in knowing who's who, is reserved for scum. They know, 100% of the time, who is town. As far as where we are in the present, the "Clearing of CF/Chenhsi" makes me think even more that Adel/Spyrex are the scum group with Chelseafan/Chenhsi.
Post 62, and Adel starts to express her annoyance with Chenhsi's participation.
I think its a gimme at this stage that everyone is.
Post 63, re-calls for 100% participation in her "List."
Zeek questions Adel's purpose of the "list", and responds by saying "Getting nervous" and "The point of the list is to collect the data necessary to out scum."
At this point, there are no obvious methods to out scum with the list, I shared my pov on this later on.
Post 70, and Adel is responding to Zeek about who she thinks is town in her eyes... She refuses to answer, claiming to want to be the last to have to do so. Firestarter then questions Adel further, disproving her earlier reason as to why she doesn't need to name her townie-like-player...
"I'd prefer to be the last one to give a name... it seems like my answer would catch several players by surprise, and since I apparently have so much pro-town karma right now, I would hate for other players of less certain alignment to hide behind my opinion. "
She then votes Firestarter, in 72, and when pressed on why she did, she responds..
"nope, sorry. have fun though. "
Another refusal to what she is asking the rest of the players to do. A very distinct pattern is emerging here.
Post 78 sees Adel giving reasoning to Firestarter that her vote on him was to "get a response"... and that she has not publicly posted her case on me?? That vote remains on me since then... ? Care to elaborate now?
It also sees Adel give her top-townlike player, or the one she wants to "clear", in her own words. And surprisingly, its Chelseafan...
This is very surprising seeing as that she wanted a CF lynch in D1, sincere or not????
But even more surprising, and this is taken from her own logic, is that there was no-way that Chelseafan could have been confirmed with a Gimbo lynch, but vice-versa.
At this moment, there is nothing surprising in her most townlike choice.
Post 85, and Adel "Wishes" that Shy Guy replaced in D1.... Why exactly???
Post 86, and Adel says the reason for hammering Gimbo was that she "lacked courage & commitment" to the case she felt was right... You then state that Gimbo would have only been 80% "cleared" if CF was lynched, having earlier said he would have been confirmed, and that CF would have been 60% "cleared" if Gimbo was lynched. She then questions why everyone "Disregarded" her case on CF... And again asks for Chenhsi to be replaced.
To me, you pretty much stuck with your earlier conviction when asking your lover to unvote so that both of you could hammer 48 hours later. I’m also failing to see how CF can be 60% confirmed at this time.....
Not only that, but you seem to be placing the blame on the rest for Gimbo's lynch, when it was you and your partner that hammered, and promised to do so 48 hours earlier?????
In 91, Adel states that when she's scum, "I am not plagued with self-doubt", again questions why nobody responded to her case on CF, and again asks for Chenhsi to be replaced.
In regards to the self-doubt, I only seen this after the hammer of Gimbo, and that’s pretty much full of WIFOM. As for the continued points about the case for CF you made, there were only 9 posts between when you brought it up, and hammered. Its not like you left a huge gap between for anyone to take notice, or indeed post thoughts, or long posts.
And, the continued pursuit of having Chenhsi replaced is strange. Given that you need him for your increasingly more annoying list that’s put the game on pause, you made your point once, and the Mod responded.
As for scum-reasoning as to why you want him replaced, and I am basing this on you being scum, then the idea of having a much stronger player for, much stronger input has a lot of credibility.
Post 93, and after much posting on the "other" game of polygamist, Adel states she has abandoned her usual technique of using multiple BW's in order to catch scum, especially as it was the exact technique used in that said last game.
TBH, A meta on one player is something, but a meta of the actual game??? I do not see the value in that, unless scum have read that thread, used a reverse technique to win in this one, and that you are a very astute townie....
I don’t see 2 games as ever going the same way twice, why do you?
And with the lynch of a townie that wanted to massclaim in D1, your claim that this game would pan out exactly the same was disproven. But, if your scum, then pointing to the other game, using a reverse technique based as being town, would look good, and cover a D1 town mislynch.
Post 100, and Adel in response to her partner posting a quote of her 93, states she "forgot about it"....
For someone who is so scientifically collecting data to out scum, you miss a lot... there was also the posts from other players, including myself, who posted their thoughts on who was townlike you missed...
I don’t buy it.. After this, you try to knock back the accusations that you conveniently forgot about your 100, but the fact remains, you did actually follow through on it by hammering Gimbo.
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Top Scum Choice >> ADEL/SPYREX
Buddies >> CHELSEAFAN/CHENHSI
The interactions between this pairing throughout the thread leads me to believe that they are the scum group.
