Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[iamausername]

Vote: -TinVision-

. Because he was the mod last time I played this setup, and that is obviously going to confuse me. And the dashes technically make him first alphabetically.

i should mention that the lynch is now either strife or armlx.

i would like everyone who checks in from here on out to say which of those two they find scummier, just from the posts they've made so far.

strife looks scummier at the moment, because I think following onto the first bandwagon with any reasoning behind it at all is slightly scummier than starting said wagon.

[Rogueben]

Vote Count 1

Iron Man - (2) {armix, strife220}

strife220 - (1) {roflcopter}

armix - (1) {Vamparific}

roflcopter - (1) {Korts}

-TinVision- (1) {iamusername}

Not Voting: {BlakAdder, Enlight_Bystand, forbiddanlight, Greasy Spot, Iron Man, JordanA24, Lowell, silence, StrangerCoug, Sun Tzu, -TinVision-}.

With 17 left alive it will take 9 to lynch.

[Korts]

i repeat, what harm can there be from having everyone say which of the two they find scummier?

The harm? Well, the harm is that after half a page of random discussion, you seem decided that the lynch should be one of the two, and you're essentially trying to force everyone, with this question, to choose one of the two whether or not they think someone else is scummier.

do you not realize that when everyone answers this question the first couple of pages will be a figurative goldmine of information to go through later after future alignment reveals?

That is by no means an excuse for directing the whole town's suspicions.

you are trying to prevent something that can only help the town, and you're refusing to participate in it.

I refuse to participate in it because I'd rather not choose either of the two while you're scummier.

[armlx]

iron man is obviously town. obviously.

Why?

this is scummy. i'll tell you why when you're older.

You realize that with no reason stating X is town on page 1 with no logic is actually an EXTREMELY anti-town move as there are 3 possible scenarios regarding it.

A) You are a cop claiming on page one. I currently doubt anyone would be dumb enough to do this.

B) You are scum trying to set up an "I told you so" or protect a scum partner with no reasoning. For this exact reason what you did gains you know town points under any circumstances.

C) You are a townie, and you have just looked like Group B.

[strife220]

Rock-solid, pro-town case against me there roflcopter. And I'm glad everyone clearly agrees that D1 lynches should be chosen on page one.[/sarcasm]

[roflcopter]

iron man is obviously town. obviously.

Why?

this is scummy. i'll tell you why when you're older.

You realize that with no reason stating X is town on page 1 with no logic is actually an EXTREMELY anti-town move as there are 3 possible scenarios regarding it.

A) You are a cop claiming on page one. I currently doubt anyone would be dumb enough to do this.

B) You are scum trying to set up an "I told you so" or protect a scum partner with no reasoning. For this exact reason what you did gains you know town points under any circumstances.

C) You are a townie, and you have just looked like Group B.

ok armlx, you're older now.

you remember what you got on iron man's case for in the first place?

its a little thing called ROLEFISHING. and its what you proceeded to DO when you asked me that question.

it just so happens that i simply have a town read on iron man so far, but i decided to make it look like there was more because the simple fact is, anyone who asked me why i was so sure was TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF I'M A COP. i set a trap, and you took the bait hook line and sinker.

unvote, vote: armlx

as people check into the thread, they should still be answering my question of whether they think armlx or strife is scummier.

why does everyone seem to think that its such a bad thing to force this game into real play mode instead of letting the random voting stage happen anyway?

@korts, i'll finish this discussion with you after everyone else on the player list has posted in thread. don't think i'm ignoring you.

[Greasy Spot]

I actually dismissed that as him not knowing the logic behind N0 vigging.

What logic is that you are implying?

[forbiddanlight]

um, wow, no random voting stage? To be fair, I honestly feel like

voting roflcopter

here because quite honestly, armix's post doesn't look like rolefishing, it looks like an honest defense to what looks like a ridiculous crusade on your part that takes up half of page 1.

[roflcopter]

i really hope that armlx himself isn't the only one in this game who is experienced enough to realize i just caught him blatantly rolefishing.

greasy spot, forbiddanlight: why ignore the question i asked? please answer it.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Bah. Go town!

[Korts]

um, wow, no random voting stage? To be fair, I honestly feel like

voting roflcopter

here because quite honestly, armix's post doesn't look like rolefishing, it looks like an honest defense to what looks like a ridiculous crusade on your part that takes up half of page 1.

Read before you write. The rolefishing is not in any kind of relation to rofl's pressure on armlx. What rofl calls rolefishing is the that armlx immediately asked why rofl considered Iron Man to be innocent, which could be taken the way of wanting to out an investigation result.

i really hope that armlx himself isn't the only one in this game who is experienced enough to realize i just caught him blatantly rolefishing.

Not that blatant, I think. True, there's reason in your point, but you're blowing it out of proportion.

greasy spot, forbiddanlight: why ignore the question i asked? please answer it.

Greasy Spot, Forbiddanlight, don't answer if you don't feel that either of armlx/strife is the scummiest so far in the game.

[iamausername]

roflcopter, your 'trap' is terrible. Town have just as much reason as scum to want you to actually give some reasoning when you declare someone 'obvious town'.

Greasy Spot, Forbiddanlight, don't answer if you don't feel that either of armlx/strife is the scummiest so far in the game.

Why should that affect their inclination to answer? If they think someone else is scummier, I'm sure they're perfectly capable of saying so.

[forbiddanlight]

I think it's pretty clear who I think is the scummiest right now. I admit I misread the post, but I still say while armix's question could be rolefishing, I honestly would probably ask that myself. It seemed to be a relatively random clearing.

[Korts]

Greasy Spot, Forbiddanlight, don't answer if you don't feel that either of armlx/strife is the scummiest so far in the game.

Why should that affect their inclination to answer? If they think someone else is scummier, I'm sure they're perfectly capable of saying so.

I just think if rofl keeps pushing for answers to the question, and I keep pushing against it, the effect will be for efforts to be nullified and the people's voice to be heard untarnished.

[roflcopter]

korts, seriously, i am not asking anybody to say which of strife/armlx they think is the scummiest person in the game, i'm asking for which of them is scummier than the other. its not that hard, and answering the question can ONLY help the town later. not answering, in particular your obstinacy, is something i'm really looking at as an attempt not to leave any evidence of your feelings for at least one of them, or just to try and get the attention away from one of them.

at this point, i think its pretty obvious that armlx is the one you're trying to keep the limelight off of, between saying that i shouldn't make the town tunnel vision on the two people i pointed out, and the way you just tried to undermine my case against him.

@iamausername, you may think its a stupid trap, but it worked. when someone says "player x is obvtown" at the start of day one, and someone else says "why?" the only answer they're looking for or thinking is "because i'm a town power role duh."

[iamausername]

How exactly does roflcopter's question tarnish the people's voice?

[forbiddanlight]

@iamausername, you may think its a stupid trap, but it worked. when someone says "player x is obvtown" at the start of day one, and someone else says "why?" the only answer they're looking for or thinking is "because i'm a town power role duh."

I know that was at iamausername, but I'd like to put in that if I said why, I wouldn't JUST be thinking of town roles. I'd probably be asking to find out if you had some sort of meta read that made you sure, or to call a bluff on an unsubstantiated claim. There are other possibilities than the one you are looking at, and the fact you are trying to FORCE it into that one possibility leads me to believe I might be on the right track voting you.

[Greasy Spot]

greasy spot, forbiddanlight: why ignore the question i asked? please answer it.

Because I don't want to right now. I'll think about answering it when I'm good and ready.

You ask us which we think is scummiest yet there is no case against Strife so how could I possibly decide right now?

@iamausername, you may think its a stupid trap, but it worked. when someone says "player x is obvtown" at the start of day one, and someone else says "why?" the only answer they're looking for or thinking is "because i'm a town power role duh."

Well when someone starts the day that way how do you usually respond? What response do you think is appropriate in that situation?

[iamausername]

@iamausername, you may think its a stupid trap, but it worked. when someone says "player x is obvtown" at the start of day one, and someone else says "why?" the only answer they're looking for or thinking is "because i'm a town power role duh."

Eh, I can kind of see where you're coming from, but I think it's equally possible that a pro-town player would ask that because they don't want to let anyone set a precedent of making statements about other people's alignments without anything to back them up.

Unvote, Vote: Korts

, by the way. I can't see a pro-town reason to object so strongly to this line of questioning.

[Iron Man]

@rofl

I see where your coming from, in that, completely alone, that question will bring up good discussion. The only problem I see with that, is the "Self-Fufilling Prophecy". For people that dont know, it is when you say something over and over, that after so many times, regardless of whether or not you believed it at the beginning, you now truly believe it with all your heart. So, hypothetically, twenty people say armlx is scummier than strife, and we keep discussing how armlx is scummier, people develope a belief that armlx is scum.

But I digress.

I think skipping the random voting stage and immidiatly jumping into serious discussion is kinda good for the town, I still think it's really fun.

Random Vote: Sun Tzu

because he'll probably bring out some crazy Chinese battle tactics on us.

[StrangerCoug]

roflcopter's #14 is a big fat scum tell to me, and the only way he can know for sure that Iron Man is town is if he is either scum or cop, the latter of which is idiotic. The post after his asks why he thinks so, and he shoots it off as saying the question is scummy and refuses to explain why said question is such.

If his first post started with the words "I think" or "I'm pretty sure that" and he backed himself up, this would be a different story, but neither is the case here.

Vote: roflcopter

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: I don't buy roflcopter's defense that armlx was rolefishing, either.

[iamausername]

You ask us which we think is scummiest yet there is no case against Strife so how could I possibly decide right now?

What do you mean by "there is no case against Strife"? Do you mean that you don't think he's done anything scummy, or just that no one has pointed out what scummy things he's done?

[armlx]

What logic is that you are implying?

The short explanation:

1) On N0, if a game is balanced, killing off a random person should be even benefit on both sides. The vig doesn't kill themselves, so the pool is slanted towards the town's favor as there are (balanced number - 1 ) townies vs (balanced number) scum.

2) Vigilante kills after N0 are generally the same as more lynches. Which is good.

its a little thing called ROLEFISHING. and its what you proceeded to DO when you asked me that question.

Asking for reasonings behind an absolute statement is role fishing? Listen, its obvious you aren't a cop, no cop would be dumb enough to just out themselves in post 2. So, therefore, your statement was either based on A) a meta-read or tell of Ironman's I was unaware of or B) total bull shit. If the former I would be interested in listening, if its the latter I would be interested in lynching you. Its pretty evidently the latter.

Unvote, Vote roflcopter

Iron Man's self fulfilling prophecy point is valid. rofl's question was very close to a 100% pro-town question, but just off enough it was not.

The correct way to phrase it would be this, which I actually want answers to.

Which, if any, of armlx, strife, and roflcopter do you think are scummy? If you think more than one is, which one do you think is more scummy?

[BlakAdder]

vote:roflcopter

. Just seems like everything he's said so far is kinda pointing towards scum.