Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)

[Mizzy]

The scum were so, so very close to taking over Troy that they could taste it. That day, there was a whole lot of finger-pointing, accusing, and especially a whole lot of swearing. Eventually, charter decided it had to be camn and that was what the two remaining scummers were waiting for. They strung camn up and with a triumphant look, pulled out guns and shot charter and Thesp in cold blood. Troy was theirs and now no one would ever find out why they had killed Helen in the first place.

Yeah, I know it was a long story, and it wasn't a happy ending at all, was it? Thanks for the food, and for listening, yeah. Was the first time I'd told the story. How do I know what happened if the only survivors were scum? Well, I'll let you figure that out. Good day to you.

camn

(Paranoid Gun Enthusiast)

has been lynched.

______________________________________

Shadow Girl

(Mafia Roleblocker/Usurper)

wins and the scum team

(Macavenger , CF Riot and Shadow Girl)

come in second!

Roles:

camn

(Replaced Blackberry)

= Paranoid Gun Enthusiast
Thesp

(Replaced Hadhfang)

= Cop
Farkshinsoup

(Replaced farside22)

= Weak Doctor
charter = Innocent Bystander)
Netlava = Innocent Bystander)
Battousai = Innocent Bystander)
Walnut = Innocent Bystander)
Lord Gurgi = Innocent Bystander)
Tinsley = Innocent Bystander)

CF Riot = Mafia Goon
ShadowGirl = Mafia Roleblocker/Usurper
Macavenger = Mafia Godfather

Night Actions:

Night 1:
ShadowGirl roleblocks Thesp.
Farkinsoup protects Thesp.
Mafia kills Battousai via CF Riot.
Thesp investigates Battousai.

Night 2:
ShadowGirl becomes the Godfather and loses her Roleblocker powers.
Farkinsoup protects Thesp.
Mafia kills Walnut via CF Riot.
Thesp investigates ShadowGirl.

Night 3:
Farkinsoup protects Thesp.
Mafia kills Tinsley via CF Riot.
Thesp investigates Tinsley.

Night 4:
Mafia kills Farkinsoup via CF Riot.
Thesp investigates CF Riot.

[Mizzy]

Role PMs:

==========

You are the

Cop

. Your job here in Troy used to be pretty easy until Helen was found dead in her house, probably killed by the mobsters. You don’t know who you can trust and who you can’t, so use your investigative prowess to try and find out exactly who the dirty scumbags are. Every night you can investigate someone and see if they are innocent or not.

Each night phase, you can send in your investigation choice to me via PM. You win when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

==========

You are the

Doctor

. You’re dedicated to saving lives, so every night when the scum are out killing people, you can decide to protect one person and keep them from sleeping with the fishes. Be careful, though - if you accidentally protect a mobster,

they won’t let you live

.

Every night, you can send in your protection choice to me via PM. You win when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

==========

You are a very

Paranoid Gun Enthusiast

. You liked Troy the way it was before Helen was killed; the only guns you had to worry about were your own. Now that there’s something going down, though, you hunker down every night in your house and fire at anyone who comes near. You shoot first and ask questions later.

This is a passive ability and you cannot control whom you shoot at. You will automatically shoot at anyone who targets you, regardless of alignment. You win when all the threats to the town (except yourself) have been eliminated.

==========

You are an

Innocent Bystander

(a.k.a. Townie.) You have nothing to do with Helen’s death but you sure want to know who did do it, so use your only power, the power to vote and lynch, to kill the dirty scum that did it and rid Troy of the dangerous thugs!

You win when all the threats to the town have been eliminated.

==========

You are a

Mafia goon

. Your scumbuddies are ShadowGirl (Roleblocker) and Macavenger (Godfather). You know why Helen died, and as far as you are concerned, everyone else in Troy deserves the same fate. Every night, you and your scumbuddies get to chat together and off a townie via PM to me.

You win when only the scum are alive at the end of the game.

==========

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

. Your scumbuddies are CF Riot (Goon) and Macavenger (Godfather). You know why Helen died, and as far as you are concerned, everyone else in Troy deserves the same fate. Every night, you and your scumbuddies get to chat together and off a townie via PM to me. You also get to send in a roleblock target each night along with a kill.

Oh, and one more thing. You are one power-hungry bugger, you know that? You don’t think that the Godfather should be in power and you want to take his throne from him. Your personal goal as the

Usurper

is to get him killed and take over. If you succeed in offing the Godfather, then you become the Godfather and lose your roleblocking ability. The other mafia don’t have any idea about your secret plans to become the Godfather, yourself.

You win only if the original Godfather is dead at the end of the game.

==========

You are a

Mafia Godfather

. Your scumbuddies are CF Riot (Goon) and ShadowGirl (Roleblocker). You are so powerful and have so many connections that no matter who investigates you, they will think you’re as innocent as a newborn babe. Every night, you and your scumbuddies get to chat together and off a townie via PM to me.

[Mizzy]

Good job all, and congrats to the scummers! Good job playing all around!

You guys have been discussing a bunch already, sorry it took me so long to post (we had a code freeze at work and had to get a lot of stuff done beforehand.) Amazingly, this game only had 3 replacements and I have to say a big thank-you to everyone who played! Thank you for posting a lot, thank you for being patient with me, and thank you for playing. I'd love to see some feedback.

[ShadowGirl]

I think you did a great job as mod, and thanks for being patient with all my questions. And I'm sorry that I held up the game with my going on vacation [and in the beginning.] ;_;

[Farkshinsoup]

Mizzy, thanks for modding, you did a great job, IMHO.

I notice that CF Riot and Mac came in 2nd. Does that mean that Town wins the bronze? Seriously, though, SG is really the only winner here, isn't she? Is this not analogous to how an SK beats both Mafia and Town? It seems a little fuzzy.

Also, I'm trying to figure out whether the game was balanced or not. Seems like it might have been tilted a little in scum's favour. (Or maybe it's just sour grapes cause I got pasted). I'd like to hear from some of the more experienced palyers on that.

I had a lot of fun, good game everyone, sorry I didn't really contribute much.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy, thanks for modding, you did a great job, IMHO.

I notice that CF Riot and Mac came in 2nd. Does that mean that Town wins the bronze? Seriously, though, SG is really the only winner here, isn't she? Is this not analogous to how an SK beats both Mafia and Town? It seems a little fuzzy.

Also, I'm trying to figure out whether the game was balanced or not. Seems like it might have been tilted a little in scum's favour. (Or maybe it's just sour grapes cause I got pasted). I'd like to hear from some of the more experienced palyers on that.

I had a lot of fun, good game everyone, sorry I didn't really contribute much.

In order for Shadow Girl to win, the previous Godfather had to die first. Then, scum had to win because if it didn't, she would die. So really, she did win, but since scum had to win for her to win, scum wins at least second place.

Camn's role, the PGO, was incredibly important for the town. She was the balancing token (a way to kill scum without the need for a lynch.) Once she claimed publicly, then I do feel like things were weighed slightly in scum's favor. I did ask 3 people with good modding experience for their input on the set-up before I used it.

[ShadowGirl]

Well, like Riot said town was doing pretty bad by having all their power roles out in the open by D2. And scum would have done a lot worse if Mac hadn't gotten lynched D2 either. I think the circumstances were just pretty bad.

Sorry being pretty lurkerish, I didn't mean to.

[CF Riot]

I almost thought scum had an advantage too, but like has been said, when you tell the bad guys all the stuff they're supposed to slowly figure out along the way it makes for easy manipulation. We also got lucky a couple times when I killed the same person Thesp investigated.

I also meant to say a while back, I'm really sorry to Walnut and Netlava (and maybe some others) for having to argue with you when I knew you were right, but still act like your ideas were ridiculous and wrong. There were a lot of times during the game when I thought, "This is exactly what I would say too," and then go on to say it's garbage logic.

I'm still amazed that I talked my way out of that guilty inspection. =D

[ShadowGirl]

I think that's what probably boggled me the most - that Riot got away with a guilty. Though, I understand how the logic worked out on that. You [Thesp] were just pretty unlucky with investigating the people we NKed every night.

[camn]

Good game people!

I totally debated regarding claiming early, But I couldn't think of a single way to play that would draw mafia attention without drawing townie-power-role attention...so I figured I would just claim and try to use the advantage in endgame.

I wonder whe Hadfang claimed "uncertain sanity"?

and Mizzy.. what WOULD have happened if it ended up just me and 1 scum? Would they have won in endgame? would we just have killed each other, resulting in a draw?

[ShadowGirl]

I'll answer this question since I already asked it: Scum would have won since you're still considered as a townie. I [mafia] would only lose/get killed if we targetted you in an NK.

[Farkshinsoup]

Camn's role, the PGO, was incredibly important for the town. She was the balancing token (a way to kill scum without the need for a lynch.) Once she claimed publicly, then I do feel like things were weighed slightly in scum's favor. I did ask 3 people with good modding experience for their input on the set-up before I used it.

I have no doubt that you exercised due diligence to make sure that the set-up was balanced. As I'm relatively new here, I'm still trying to figure out how game balance actually plays out in real game situations. I'm certainly not trying to imply that the balance was out of whack just because we lost.

Props to the 3 scum, all of whom were low on my list throughout the whole game. Hell, I thought that camn was scum at the end there, and if I had survived another night, I would probably have pushed for her lynch. Scum played well, and that's why they won.

Camn, I think you did the right thing under the circumstances. BB made the bad play with his half claim, you were just playing the hand you were dealt.

[Thesp]

I think that's what probably boggled me the most - that Riot got away with a guilty. Though, I understand how the logic worked out on that.

charter's logic on it was perfect. There was no way we were going to win once I had differing investigations on mafia (with a Godfather revealed).

Well done to the scum for staying hidden early, especially to ShadowGirl, who had me fooled before the investigation.

I often have a feeling of agony/regret/something, where I think, "Curses! Fie! Dangit!" after a game where I lost because I was wrong. I don't have that this game. I feel like I did right (re: investigations, not from earlier scumhunting, where I was clearly wrong), and we lost anyway. I don't feel the delicious agony of losing, and I don't think that's a good thing.

I feel a little cheated by the Usurper role, as there's no way I could have discovered anything so unusual about my investigations after the GF died. I suppose I

could

have guessed it, or contemplated such a thing happening, but the odds against it are so astronomical that

it would be poor play to suspect my results were tampered with at that point

. (Essentially, once I had investigated ShadowGirl then CF Riot, after the GF had turned up, the endgame as it occurred was a foregone conclusion.) I think having two godfather-like roles is awkward and misleading in a game. (For the record, I'm also not a fan of roles which win with a side and have an extra condition to fulfill in order to achieve victory, making them strictly worse than others in their role.)

I'm displeased with the setup of the game, but in all other respects, I think Mizzy was a fantastic mod - thanks for modding this game!

I am curious, mafia - why the delay in killing the doctor? (And fie on you for killing all my nightchoices!)

[Walnut]

One thing to note- only 3 players were replaced, but they were all the town power roles (maybe it was performance anxiety?). That kind of didn't help, especially with Blackberry putting Camn on the spot with his half claim and Hadhfang's surprising early claim outing Thesp.

I am not displeased with the setup, although I can see why Thesp is, having done everything right but still not being quite right. Terrible luck on the investigations too!

[Farkshinsoup]

charter's logic on it was perfect. There was no way we were going to win once I had differing investigations on mafia (with a Godfather revealed).

QFT.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm really tempted to do a full re-read, I'm sure there's a lot I could learn by reviewing things, but, well, 50 FRICKIN PAGES!!!:shock:

[Battousai]

I think that if Camn didn't claimed early, the game would have been tilited in favor of the town.Therefore to balance the usurper (role cop) the game would have been even more unbalanced.

All I had to say, besides my D1 where I play my worst at, as I read along I nailed all the other scum. I narrowed the 3 scum down to Mac, Charter, Tinsley, Riot, and SG in that order. Oh, and for the record, D1 I really wasn't trying to defend LG that much, I just thought the points about him and the sk were very wrong.

I think the reason they didn't kill fark so soon was to get him lynched. Probably try and get the town to guess there was no doctor and lynch him, then kill you that night.

Overall this was a good game

to be in

read.

[charter]

I don't like the Usurper role. There's no way I would ever have thought that something like that existed.

Camn, even if we lynched Riot instead of you, Thesp would have died at night, and SG would be confirmed town. There was really no winning once thesp got the different results on scum.

Once again, good game everyone, and thanks for hosting Mizzy.

Fark, as a parting note, I've learned two laws of the universe in this game. First, cop investigations are completely useless. Second, Fark is always town no matter how scummy you seem.

[Walnut]

I don't like the Usurper role. There's no way I would ever have thought that something like that existed.

<splutter/> Unless you read the guide I linked to in post #63. Bah, everyone just told me off for distracting the town

In this case, I don't think knowing that it was a possibility would have helped, to be honest. The particular circumstances around when Thesp investigated each player made it just evilly difficult.

[ShadowGirl]

I am curious, mafia - why the delay in killing the doctor? (And fie on you for killing all my nightchoices!)

We wanted to keep the possibility of you two being scum open, because when Fark dies you would be confirmed and we needed to keep you alive until we knew that you had investigated me [and divulged the answers]. Killing Fark too early and keeping you around would probably have alerted you that something was up.

I felt sort of bad for town, knowing that your chances were pretty slim considering how I was 'confirmed'. Though, if Mac hadn't gotten lynched D2 I think town would have won.

[camn]

Fair enough, charter.. . if you are incredibly Cop dependent.

[charter]

Me and Fark were in the cop central game where we should have won based on cop investigations, but didn't notice that Fark and myself were confirmed town (we just knew I was) but we won based on old fashioned scumhunting (not the cop investigations that gave us an assured win).

[Mizzy]

The Usurper role is an interesting and hard role to pull off, yes, but it is a role that was used before and is on the wiki. Town did have 2 investigative roles and someone who could have killed off the scum pretty quickly, and I honestly didn't think the Usurper aspect would come into play; kudos for Shadow for actually pulling it off.

[CF Riot]

I feel a little cheated by the Usurper role.
I am curious, mafia - why the delay in killing the doctor?

The Usurper is really strong when it works, but SG came really close to dying N1. I don't know what she or Mac thought, but my first impulse was to RB Camn as soon as BB claimed. After Hadhfang came out, I was planning to RB him instead, but kill Camn. This would've effectively killed me.

My train of thought was, if we kill Fark, and then the following night we

don't

kill Thesp, it would've immediately informed him he was being kept alive for a reason. We needed you to admit to SG being town before you died, so keeping Fark alive kept everyone believing we were just doing a poor job of setting up Fark, when actually our main focus was Thesp.

[ShadowGirl]

Really? I can't remember exactly how we got around to a Batt kill, but we basically thought he might have a power role [and that we needed to keep everyone else alive for tactical reasons.] Walnut, you were almost up for NK just for comedic value. xD But I'm pretty sure me or Mac wouldn't have gone for RBing/killing camn considering we know who the cop was and whatever camn was might be dangerous.